Put in the Work with Spike Lee

Summary

Podcast Summary: IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson

Episode: Put in the Work with Spike Lee
Release Date: September 3, 2025
Host: Higher Ground
Guests: Spike Lee (Academy Award-winning filmmaker)

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Main Theme & Overview

This episode features an insightful, spirited conversation between Michelle Obama, Craig Robinson, and legendary filmmaker Spike Lee. Together, they delve into the themes of creative passion, legacy, mentorship, hard work, and the challenges of making meaningful art in today’s world. The hosts and Spike draw from personal stories, familial bonds, and career crossroads, while offering candid, practical advice in response to a listener’s life dilemma.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Spike Lee’s Personal Story and Early Influences

• Origin Story (04:51–07:02):
  Spike shares how he met his wife, Tanya, during the Congressional Black Caucus weekend, humorously recalling how fate brought them together.
  Quote:

  "We just met each other and time stopped." – Spike Lee (04:41)

• First Date Connections (08:09–11:19):
  Michelle recounts how Barack took her to see Spike's "Do the Right Thing" on their first date, emphasizing the impact of cultural touchstones and shared experiences on relationships.
  Quote:

  "He did the right thing." – Michelle Obama (10:29)

• Family and Influences (18:06–19:33):
  Spike discusses the autobiographical nature of "Crooklyn," reflecting on his tough-loving mother, Brooklyn upbringing, and the universality of family stories.

2. Spike Lee’s Path to Filmmaking

• The Turning Point (19:42–23:37):
  Spike describes his accidental entry into filmmaking—receiving a Super 8 camera from a friend, spending a summer creating what became his path-defining documentary.
  Quote:

  "I say film chose me. Cinema chose me. I didn’t choose cinema." – Spike Lee (19:44)

• Mentorship and Support (22:46–23:37):
  Spike credits Dr. Herb Eichelberger from Morehouse for encouraging his early documentaries, spotlighting the critical role of mentorship.

3. The Importance of Community and Consistent Teams

• Longtime Collaborators (27:31–29:31):
  The group discusses the value of working with trusted teams—comparing it to successful sports teams.
  Quote:

  "It’s people that you’re comfortable with, that you could flow with, and people whose opinions you trust." – Spike Lee (28:07)

4. New Film: Highest to Lowest

• Creative Inspiration (32:48–34:34):
  Spike explains the influence of Kurosawa’s "High and Low" and the “Rashomon effect” on his latest film, and how it’s reimagined for today.
  Quote:

  "This film is not a remake. It’s a reinterpretation of the great film by the great Japanese filmmaker Kurosawa, High and Low." – Spike Lee (34:11)

• Working With Denzel Washington (34:37–41:27):
  Spike emphasizes the unique collaboration and trust he shares with Denzel:

  "He knows what he’s doing. He knows what he wants. He doesn’t need 20 takes. But he listens to notes, he’s not too big for that." – Spike Lee (40:55)

• ASAP Rocky’s Role & Dynamic (42:16–45:02):
  Spike praises newcomer ASAP Rocky, comparing the Denzel–ASAP scenes to “a heavyweight fight.”

  "Denzel is such a powerful actor. I’ve seen actors wilt, but ASAP held his own. That’s like a heavyweight fight." – Spike Lee (42:26)

5. Art, AI, and the Challenges Facing Creatives

• On the Threat of AI (48:10–49:28):
  Spike shares concern about artificial intelligence in the arts, especially in screenwriting and music.
  Quote:

  "There’s things that are sacred as human beings—that’s the arts. I have a problem with [AI in the arts]." – Spike Lee (49:11)

• Changes in Hollywood (51:03–55:47):
  Spike, Michelle, and Craig discuss risk-aversion among studios, the decline in diverse storytelling, and salute the courage of past industry leaders for backing “Do the Right Thing” despite widespread opposition.

6. Mentorship, Legacy & Listener Advice

• Listener Question—Navigating Purpose (64:32–70:08):
  Listener Tori from D.C. asks how to choose the most impactful path when torn between multiple good ones and how to overcome the feeling of not fully living up to potential.

  Responses:

  • Craig Robinson: Encourages being patient, finding meaning where you are, and redefining impact.

    "All impact isn’t big. Being a good neighbor… that is big impact." – Craig Robinson (66:41)

  • Michelle Obama: Advises trying different things, trusting the right idea will come, and highlights that fostering children is already legacy work.
  • Spike Lee: Adds that hard work (“W-E-R-K”) is essential and warns against the myth of overnight success.

    "You gotta put the work in—W-E-R-K. You think you’re getting over, but you’re cheating yourself." – Spike Lee (50:02, echoed at 68:42)

• On Chasing Impact (68:15–70:12):
  Michelle and Spike urge young people to focus on what makes them happy and sustained effort—not instant impact.

  "If you have a job, occupation that you love—that’s a home run, a three-pointer, that’s an 80-yard field goal." – Spike Lee (70:08)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Spike on Fate and Film:
  "If her father hadn’t given her that Super 8 camera, I wouldn’t be here." (27:02)

• Michelle on Family & Mentorship:
  "Kids are very important to you, Spike... you bird's eye to the young people." (14:04)

• Spike on Trust and Team:
  "When you’re surrounded by people who want you to be your best, you trust them." (29:01)

• On the State of Hollywood:
  "There are fewer and fewer people in those positions, the gatekeepers, that are willing to produce different, more challenging material." – Spike Lee (51:23)

• On Mentorship and Students:
  "I hope you are here because this is what you want to do the rest of your life…if you have a job you love—that’s a home run." – Spike Lee (70:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |-----------------------------------------|--------------| | Spike & Tanya’s Love Story | 04:51–07:02 | | Barack & Michelle's First Date | 08:09–11:19 | | Spike’s Crooklyn & Family Insights | 18:06–19:33 | | Spike’s Path to Film via Super 8 Camera | 19:42–23:37 | | Collaborators & "Team" Dynamics | 27:31–29:31 | | Highest to Lowest & Kurosawa Influence | 32:48–34:34 | | Directing Denzel; ASAP Rocky | 34:37–45:02 | | AI in the Arts & Creative Challenges | 48:10–49:28 | | Hollywood’s Increasing Risk-Aversion | 51:03–55:47 | | Listener Tori’s Question & Life Advice | 64:32–70:12 |

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Warm, Playful, and Candid:
  The episode is brimming with camaraderie, laughter, and familial banter, enriched by honest, sometimes vulnerable reflections.

• Cultural Reverence:
  There’s deep respect for the craft of filmmaking, the power of mentors, and the responsibility of opening doors for the next generation.

• Encouraging & Empowering:
  The hosts and guest offer practical wisdom, champion hard work, and demystify the pursuit of legacy.

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This episode paints a portrait of Spike Lee not just as an iconic director, but as a grounded mentor, loyal friend, loving family member, and passionate advocate for authentic storytelling. It’s a must-listen for creatives, dreamers, and anyone wrestling with life’s big crossroads.

Transcript

[Spike Lee]

I have something called I don't have dyslexia. That's something else.

[Michelle Obama]

What is that?

[Spike Lee]

The slippage should be slipping.

[Michelle Obama]

Your medical term is setting that up.

[Craig Robinson]

This episode is brought to you by Cologuard and Chase. Home Lending.

[Spike Lee]

Well, hello.

[Craig Robinson]

Craig Robinson.

[Michelle Obama]

Michelle Obama. How are you?

[Craig Robinson]

In my opinion, I am delighted to be here.

[Michelle Obama]

Ah, that's cute. I am so happy to see you in your bright yellow.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, I got a little yellow. Got a little sparkle going on. So it's like. Yeah, I think. Yeah. I felt like dressing up for our guests today.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, nice.

[Craig Robinson]

But what's been going on with you?

[Michelle Obama]

Not much. I've been actually. I've been on the road with the kids for summer hoops, so there's been a little bit more than usual. But loving my time popping in to say hi to you and a couple of guests. So really excited, you know, you're in quickly. Like, I am traveling, and I'm staying at this Airbnb in Georgetown, and it's really neat. But you know what's really neat? Other than being able to walk around the neighborhood and get a coffee or get something to eat, and everything's in walking distance, even our dinner last night. But the host lives nearby, and he was kind enough to come by and say hello, that's nice offer and give me a tour of the spot. It was really neat, and we've been so busy, I haven't been able to take him up on it, but I will. I will do that the next time I'm here, because I think I'll stay here again.

[Craig Robinson]

Well, that's kind of that experience. When we think about when we had Brian Chesky on, who's the founder and CEO of Airbnb, it sounds like your experience is more along the lines of how he initially envisioned the Airbnb experience.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

You would actually stay in the home of someone and. And kind of get to know them.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, right.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, it's more communal.

[Craig Robinson]

More communal. And I think this is the first time you've met the host.

[Michelle Obama]

This is.

[Craig Robinson]

This is.

[Michelle Obama]

And so you know what? It feels less transactional. You know, it was really, really nice. And I would encourage owners to do that.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, shout out to the Airbnb host in Georgetown who is looking after my big brother, and thank you for making him feel at home. So we got. We got a good conversation planned for this episode.

[Michelle Obama]

We do. We do. This is not only gonna be a good. This is gonna be a fun conversation. I'm looking. Really looking forward to it. Spike Lee is An Academy Award winning director, producer, writer, actor and author who helped revolutionize modern black filmmaking. He's a graduate of Morehouse College and New York University Tisch School of Arts where he is a tenured professor of film and artistic director. His newest film is highest to lowest streaming now on Apple tv. And you and I both got to interview.

[Craig Robinson]

We get to talk to them.

[Spike Lee]

I can't wait to talk to him.

[Craig Robinson]

It's a great project.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. So without any further ado, Mr. Spike.

[Craig Robinson]

Lee, the one, the only, in the flesh on the.

[Spike Lee]

Spike, sis.

[Craig Robinson]

Love you, sweetie. Love you.

[Michelle Obama]

Love you.

[Craig Robinson]

Thank you for this.

[Spike Lee]

What's up? No, what happened?

[Craig Robinson]

So thank you for. Well, we concocted this visit just a couple of days ago. Cause Spike and Tanya came over. We were having a little. Having a little meal, sit down, Something something, something little something something like we do in the vineyard. Cause I love Spike, but I love Tanya even more probably. Yeah, she.

[Spike Lee]

I understand.

[Craig Robinson]

You should.

[Spike Lee]

I understand.

[Craig Robinson]

You should understand. Cause Tanya's real, the real star. She's beautiful, smart, you know, you start wondering, how'd you do that? Spike?

[Michelle Obama]

Tell her you had some game back in the day.

[Spike Lee]

We just met each other in time. Stopped.

[Craig Robinson]

Did. Okay, all right. I was going. So tell us. Okay, tell us the origin story that.

[Spike Lee]

I was in for the Congressional Black Caucus weekend.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Spike Lee]

And I was there to show a couple scenes from Malcolm X. I had a date. So as I was going to the restroom and she was going to the restroom, we saw each other.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay, where was your date?

[Spike Lee]

She said I could go to men's room.

[Michelle Obama]

With me.

[Craig Robinson]

You left her in her chair. So you wait here.

[Spike Lee]

No, I said, I have to go to the restroom. So we paused and looked at each other. And so I got up there and you know, gave a little speech and we showed the clip and people love the film. Denzel Washington's Denzel's Malcolm. Come on now.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

And so night went on and I was looking for. Looking for tying the rest of the night, but it was time to go. So I'm going down the escalator with my date at night and she's going up the escalator. So I said, got to the bottom. We looked at each other like when it was like this.

[Craig Robinson]

Truly ships passing.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah. It wasn't no goo goo eyes, nothing like that. But it was just a look. So I got to the bottom of the elevator on the escalator. I said, you know what? I forgot my monk blanc pen.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, man.

[Craig Robinson]

You lied.

[Michelle Obama]

No, he acted. He's an actor.

[Spike Lee]

He's like, not really, but this is a monk blanc. You know how much pen cost back then? That type of.

[Michelle Obama]

And.

[Spike Lee]

We exchanged numbers, and the rest is history, herstory.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay. I never heard that story. I like that.

[Spike Lee]

It's the truth.

[Craig Robinson]

Now I gotta get her version of it. I'm gonna do that when we get back to the Vineyard. That's. That's beautiful. You, you, you. Spike is my brother. We've gotten to know each other over the years. Over the years. And real getting to know, you know, because it's.

[Spike Lee]

And. And I don't like to say on behalf of Ty and I, we're in the island and we get an invitation from our peoples, our folks.

[Craig Robinson]

We're going. Yeah. So we concocted this, this, this, this episode. Visit over dinner. Because we were talking about the new film, which we'll get into.

[Spike Lee]

Can I just jump? Can we talk about your first date?

[Craig Robinson]

Well, you know. Cause who hasn't heard about this first date? This is another reason, another thing that connects us, the Obamas, deeply to the Lees and to Spike in particular.

[Spike Lee]

When I see Barack, I say, good thing.

[Michelle Obama]

Good thing you made the film.

[Spike Lee]

No, good thing. You say, we're going to see Driver's Daisy. That is the wrong move, driving the Daisy.

[Craig Robinson]

That's like. Excuse me. Excuse me. Well, as the story goes, I wasn't real clear that it was appropriate for me to date my husband. Right. Because we worked in the same place.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, we probably won a handful of black folks. But he was persistent and he said, you know, who cares what these folks think? You know, we want to. We should just give it a shot. So I acquiesced. And he planned a beautiful day. Didn't even know. It was sort of one of those dates that go on and on. Started with lovely time spent at the Art Institute. You know, he was showing all his sides, you know, his cultural, artistic side. He was bringing it.

[Michelle Obama]

He was macking.

[Spike Lee]

That's the word.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, walking slowly as he, you know, noticed things in the Monet and the this and the that. And then we had lunch in the courtyard in the Art Institute. And if you know Chicago, it's one magnificent mile. So down Michigan Avenue from the Art Institute is on the south end. We strolled all the way north. Walking, talking all the way. You know, the evening starts, the day is starting to unfold. I'm starting to see new sides of him. I'm starting to look at him a different way. I think we had dinner. Lake Point Tower, which is further down. Lovely sky view. So Nice restaurant, good food. And then he says, we should take in a movie. Do the Right Thing had just come out. It was the first weekend. And if anybody knows anything about Spike Lee and his movies, you know, they were a happening. They still are happening. And so do the Right Thing was a thing you had to see. And the fact that this brother was hip to the fact that we needed to see it on its opening night, it was impressive. So we watched the movie. It was phenomenal. Phenomenal. You know, controversial. He did the right thing.

[Spike Lee]

Going to garbage. Can't do Sal's fingers, Pizza ring a window.

[Craig Robinson]

It's like. But then after. Because do the Right Thing is the kind of movie that after you watch it, you gotta talk about it, you know? I mean, now you find out, you know, I found out his character, you know, did he see what I see? Did he have the feelings that I felt? Did he get what I got out of the movie? So we talked for hours after the movie, like everyone would tend to do. And I would say that that date probably sealed the deal.

[Spike Lee]

And wasn't Driving Miss Daisy? Was not driving Mr. Daisy a Caddy Award winner?

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Spike Lee]

Best Picture. Driver's Daisy.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. No, that didn't do it. It was Spike Lee's joint. Thank you, Spike, for that.

[Spike Lee]

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

I like Spike. It's like, I want to hear that story again.

[Spike Lee]

That's the person I ever hear, my sister. I read about it.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, but wasn't it last summer, the two summers ago you gave us the.

[Spike Lee]

Sign, the street sign.

[Craig Robinson]

The street sign, which was. We got this. As you know, this is like, you, no fancy friends. Because you gave us a Do the.

[Spike Lee]

Right Thing street sign from the street got renamed. Do the Right Thing got renamed.

[Craig Robinson]

We got a sign that is signed by Spike Lee. It's in the house, in the building. Well, you know, thank you for that. That was.

[Michelle Obama]

Spike is a thoughtful person, and now I have known him as long as you have. But I will tell our audience that when we had dinner together at your house on the Vineyard, Spike found out from my wife that our two youngest kids, Austin and Aaron, were big Knicks fans and Spike Lee fans. And the funny thing is. And everybody who's our age is gonna laugh, they weren't old enough to watch your movies yet at that time.

[Spike Lee]

I hope not.

[Michelle Obama]

He said, I hope not. But then you remember what you said. He was like, they can watch Crooklyn.

[Spike Lee]

That's the one.

[Michelle Obama]

That's the one. They can watch Crooklyn. That's it. And he Was as protective of them as we were. And he made the movies. That was what was funny. But you, I don't know if you remember this, but you and. Oh, I'm jumping around here. The funny part is they only know you as a Knicks super fan.

[Craig Robinson]

That's your claim to fame.

[Michelle Obama]

That was your claim to fame to them. So when they heard they were coming over to dinner, they were excited. So what does Spike do? He takes a stroll with them in your backyard about 75 yards down and back and just talk. And you can see one's on one side, one's on the other. And who's doing all the talking? Spike. And then you see the guy saying something and you see. And we're all wondering, what is it? What are those three talking about?

[Spike Lee]

How old were they at that time?

[Michelle Obama]

So this was how many years ago? Three years ago.

[Craig Robinson]

I don't.

[Michelle Obama]

So they were probably 12 and 10. Is there 15 and 13 now? Yeah, yeah, they can see crooked, but they're almost at the point, thanks to Malia, they go, she wants them to see some R rated stuff. So.

[Spike Lee]

That wasn't me.

[Michelle Obama]

I know it wasn't you. They're older now. They're old enough. My point is, I mean, you have another generous soul. You are a generous soul because.

[Craig Robinson]

And kids are very important to you. I mean, anytime there are young people, you know, in our presence, Spike, I know you will go you bird's eye to the young people. Now, Tanya says that's cause you are a big old kid yourself.

[Spike Lee]

Oh, she's. She said more than that.

[Craig Robinson]

Spike, you are crazy. Oh man. I'mma get you out of trouble. Spike, what is. What's your favorite film that you have? Or do you have a favorite? I know you probably get this all the time, but we've never talked about this.

[Spike Lee]

I wonder if I could turn your question around, please.

[Michelle Obama]

This back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. You know, Meesh, I've had such fond memories of our kids first day of school. And I'm just thinking back to when we would get them ready and go shopping for school supplies. And how excited they got over a new T shirt.

[Craig Robinson]

I know, right? Right?

[Michelle Obama]

A new pair of shorts, new pencils.

[Craig Robinson]

All the excitement over decorating their locker room lockers. One of the things that I used to do in preparation for school because our summers in the White House got pretty exciting. I mean, it was usually when we did an international trip because the girls were away. So summers were fun. It was camp. And I found that a couple years they Weren't mentally ready to get back to school because they were having so much fun.

[Spike Lee]

Right, right.

[Craig Robinson]

So I started employing a strategy. That fun had to stop two weeks before school started.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, man.

[Craig Robinson]

So that they would be no fun, no nothing planned. Just bored. So that by the end of that two weeks, they would be begging me to go to school. So that's tough. I learned that strategy. Cause if it's fun up until the end, they're like, why would we want summer to stop?

[Michelle Obama]

That's tough.

[Craig Robinson]

And when we were growing up, we were always ready for school because summers would drag on forever.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Cause even when we went to day camp, that ended in the end of July.

[Craig Robinson]

So it was just like you had dead stakes.

[Michelle Obama]

You had to figure out your own playing. Well, I tell you, these kids have really been spoiled with vacations and all this great stuff. But I really look forward to back to school and the excitement at our house. Now it's more about what day you get your hair cut.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, is that.

[Michelle Obama]

You gotta get the fresh cut close enough to the start of school so that it's still fresh. And for us, this year, it's gonna be a tough one because it's the weekend of Labor Day, so we.

[Craig Robinson]

It's very day.

[Michelle Obama]

Those fresh haircuts are gonna be like four or five days old by the time they get to school.

[Craig Robinson]

And then there was just the back to school shopping, which say, cannot relate to because as first lady, it was very hard for me to do the back to school shopping with the motorcade and police and all of that.

[Michelle Obama]

I remember when we used to run around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes, calculators. Now, with Amazon, everything you could ever need can be purchased from anywhere you are. You can be on vacation, a sports field, and get all of it delivered fast right to your doorstep, one click. No stress. And with Amazon's low back to school prices, you can spend less on your kids.

[Craig Robinson]

Who could ask for anything more?

[Spike Lee]

When people come up, total strangers come up. To me, more people say Crookland than any other film.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Wow. Wow. Do the right thing more than Malcolm X. It's just that family. Yeah, that's the film people love. And not just black folks. It's just that family. And Delroy played my father, and Alfie Woodard played my mother. And so my mother had to be the tough cop. Cause my father is like, daddy, can you jump out the window? Oh, yeah, go ahead, but just don't hurt yourself. So she was forced to be the cop. And so we grew up sometimes, like, not liking our mother because she let us do nothing. Yeah, yeah, okay. I'm oldest of five. We were crazy.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

We were just wild Brooklyn kids. And my mother had to be a disciplinarian because otherwise it would not have been good. And so I feel bad. Like we saw. All of us saw our mother as a bad.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

The sheriff.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Cause she wouldn't let us do nothing.

[Craig Robinson]

And so you mad at her and she's holding it down for everybody.

[Spike Lee]

Holding it down. Hold it down.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

So that's why I think people think corcohen these are total strangers just coming to the usa. They name them all. It says, my favorite is crooked. And not just black folks too. Just.

[Craig Robinson]

Did you always want to know that you wanted to go to be a filmmaker? Did you?

[Spike Lee]

That came late. I just went to the movies.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Well, we went to the movies.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

This is screaming. This is like the early 60s. So, you know, I tell you, when I say film chose me, cinema chose me. It wasn't. I didn't choose cinema.

[Craig Robinson]

How so?

[Spike Lee]

Summer of 1977, one of the most infamous summers in New York City, New York's history. And I had a friend. Her name is Vietta Johnson. Smart.

[Craig Robinson]

Do you.

[Michelle Obama]

Wait, did she go to Princeton?

[Spike Lee]

Yes. Let me tell the story. Let me tell the story. Okay, so Vieta and I grew up together.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Spike Lee]

And went to Stuyvesant, the top.

[Michelle Obama]

Stuyvesant High School.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah. Brooklyn Tech was on the block of my offices. Stuyvesant in science.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

And so she was always smart. And that summer, New York City was broke. There's a famous front page of Daily News. Ford. The city dropped dead. That's President Ford. So I came home for the summer, and there were no summer jobs because I wanted to come make some money so I could have some fresh clothes, going back to school in the fall. And that summer, all we would do is play sports. You know, stickball, stoop ball, stuff like that. And this day changed my life. There's no bs. I went to see Vietta. She lived in a Universal house on the other side of Fort Green Park. Rang the bus, said, come on up. So she's studying for some tests, sat wherever it was. So we're sitting in her living room, and there's a box. This is a true story. This day changed my life. I said, what's in that box? He said, oh, It's a Super 8 camera my father gave me. I don't want it. So what's in the other box? It's the cartridges for the Super 8. You can have it. Well, your father gave it to you. He gave it to me. But I'm gonna be a doctor, right?

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

She was studying for some lsat, whatever it was. And so now I had something to do for the summer.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow. How old were you?

[Spike Lee]

I was 77.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, yeah, you had to be. She had to be a junior.

[Spike Lee]

20 years old. I was born 57. So when I had something to do. So I spent the whole summer filming. Wow. And that summer was a summer of the blackout. So when it happened, my followers drive me around to see my fellow Baruiquas, Puerto Ricans, and my brothers and sisters looting. I had it all. Driving cars, Cadillacs out through the wind. I mean, so you're in the middle.

[Craig Robinson]

Of the looting, catching it all.

[Spike Lee]

Yes. So I come back, got to school my junior year, and I declared my major, Mass communications. Morrison. Morrison had that. But Clark is across the street.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

So I declare myself mass communications. Mass communications, which is film, tv, print journalism and radio. Okay. And this teacher helped turn around. Her name is stilted. Dr. Herb Eichelberger. I told him about this footage I have. He said, you should make a documentary. He encouraged me. On days where he didn't have to work, he would come in and open up the office, the center for film. So I made this. The film was called Last Hustle in Brooklyn. Homage to Last Hustle in Paris. Brando. Anyway, none of that. None of that stuff in that Brandon. But I made the film, worked on it. First semester, spring semester, I showed my class and that got a response. So then and there I said, I'm gonna be a filmmaker.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow.

[Spike Lee]

Wow. So I was focused.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Graduate Morehouse. I want to go to film school. I applied to the three best film schools, USC and my American filmmakers too. Okay. Nyu. Okay. At that time, to get into AFI and usc, you had to get an astronomical score on a gre. Okay, I did not get the astronomical score. Nyu. All you had to do is submit or create a portfolio.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, and you had your documentary.

[Spike Lee]

Wow. And I could. First of all, at that time, I didn't have my driver's license, so it would have been crazy being in la. But now I'm a typical New Yorker. I know.

[Craig Robinson]

Really? That's how you thought. It's like. What was I thinking?

[Michelle Obama]

Wait a minute.

[Spike Lee]

Our driver's license, Right? License. Cuz Ty said, I'm tired of driving, Driving you around. Yeah, you just rusty butt around. We don't need a driver's license.

[Craig Robinson]

So you see, USC is Out.

[Spike Lee]

So came to nyu. Ang Lee and Ernest Dickens were in my class. Ernest shot all my stuff. He went.

[Craig Robinson]

Amy Lee was in your class?

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, Ernest from Howard. So right away, Morrison, Howard, we were like, yeah, yeah. So Ernest shot all my thesis film was a film called Joe's Bedside Bar, which we cut heads, won a student Academy Award. Then later, Ernest shot for me together. She's gonna have it, Scooter. Do the right thing, Mo Better Blues, Jungle Fever and Malcolm X, man.

[Craig Robinson]

So all because Vietta gave you her father's camera. You know, that was not an accident.

[Spike Lee]

So wait, that was not some happenstance. That was God a lot.

[Michelle Obama]

Whatever you want to call it.

[Craig Robinson]

All right, so crazy connection. Vietta Johnson was one of my brother's first girlfriends at Princeton.

[Spike Lee]

Did she run track then, too?

[Michelle Obama]

She ran track.

[Craig Robinson]

She ran track.

[Spike Lee]

His at them.

[Michelle Obama]

There was his publicly least ever.

[Spike Lee]

But I.

[Craig Robinson]

Hey, be.

[Spike Lee]

By the way, I've never even told Vietta that.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, she doesn't know.

[Spike Lee]

She never knew. I liked her. She was.

[Craig Robinson]

You liked everybody.

[Michelle Obama]

Everybody liked.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, I didn't like her. I liked it.

[Craig Robinson]

You liked it? You liked it? Liked it. Well, that was crazy, girlfriend. See, that's why y' all like each other.

[Spike Lee]

I like black clothes and some Puerto Rico. That's Rosie Perez. I like that.

[Craig Robinson]

I like the. That's crazy.

[Spike Lee]

And then what happened with Vietta?

[Craig Robinson]

You try to get in your business.

[Michelle Obama]

It didn't work out. Didn't work out. Clearly. She dropped me. But that's okay. Join the clock.

[Craig Robinson]

He was a younger.

[Michelle Obama]

Kindred spirits. I was too young for.

[Craig Robinson]

He was. He was a freshman.

[Spike Lee]

You know where she's from, right?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Where?

[Michelle Obama]

Brooklyn.

[Spike Lee]

The People's Republic. Well, the People's Republic of Brooklyn. That might have been a little reach, you know?

[Craig Robinson]

Well, I'm glad we shared that because Vietta should know that.

[Michelle Obama]

She should know that story.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, but I always think about that, you know, life go this way.

[Craig Robinson]

That's right. If you knocked on her door that.

[Spike Lee]

Day.

[Craig Robinson]

Rang the bell. Sorry. Yes, ring the bell.

[Spike Lee]

If her father could not give her that Super 8 camera, I wouldn't be here.

[Craig Robinson]

You wouldn't be here.

[Michelle Obama]

Or if she was interested in the camera herself.

[Craig Robinson]

And she Vietnam did become a doctor. So she was very clear.

[Spike Lee]

Yes. I mean, life, I think about this. I like.

[Craig Robinson]

That's crazy.

[Spike Lee]

That's like.

[Craig Robinson]

God damn, that's crazy.

[Michelle Obama]

I know.

[Craig Robinson]

Well, it's a good thing. You were good at it.

[Spike Lee]

So.

[Craig Robinson]

You'Ve had a pretty, you know, steady team throughout your film career. I mean, you see the credits, you know, you see your same crew, your photographer, your, you know, is that your good luck charm? Do you. You know, is that normal?

[Spike Lee]

I would.

[Craig Robinson]

Filmmaking that you people have that. Those long, long relationships. Film after film.

[Spike Lee]

Come on. You know that this is relationships that could be film, sports teams. Yep.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

You know, so it's people that you're comfortable with and that you could flow with and people that here's an important thing that you could. You trust their opinions.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Am I right or wrong?

[Michelle Obama]

You're right.

[Spike Lee]

Because some you work with. Some. Mama Luke's.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

Mama Luke's.

[Craig Robinson]

Let's explain that for the people.

[Spike Lee]

My family's the first family to move into Cobble Hill because I was born in Atlanta. When we moved in the Cobble Hill Brooklyn, it was stone. We were the first black family.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

And so I began to think about do the right thing in Jungle Fever came from being a child and predominantly Italian American neighbor. So Mama Luke, Mama Luke.

[Michelle Obama]

You don't want to be a Mama Luke.

[Spike Lee]

So when you trust someone.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

You know, they have your best. Want the best for you.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

So they're not going to tell you some crazy stuff. Now you don't. Somebody's opinion you don't expect, you're not gonna listen to because you don't know where that's coming from.

[Craig Robinson]

Right. Right.

[Spike Lee]

And we all know in this room, in the room we've taken in the world, you taking some advice or something. Yeah. And didn't say. God damn.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

But when you're surrounded by people want you to be the best you can be, you trust them. Yeah. And we've all seen teams, guys get along and this and that and like. And it comes on the court.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Now I was at game 7, May 1970.

[Craig Robinson]

Which game is this? Fill me in.

[Spike Lee]

The Knicks first world championship.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Spike Lee]

Against the Los Angeles Lakers.

[Craig Robinson]

It's like, which game is this?

[Michelle Obama]

I'm gamer talking about a team coach.

[Spike Lee]

Red Holzman, starting five.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Spike Lee]

Willis Reed, Dave debusscher, Bill Bradley. Dick Barnett recently passed away.

[Craig Robinson]

This was. I even knew basketball existed. But thank you.

[Spike Lee]

That's the team off the bench. Cassie Russell, Dave Stolworth, Mike Reardon. I was at that game.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Spike Lee]

My father's lawyer had season tickets and he promised me there's a game seven. You can go. And it's the Willis Reed game. Willis Reed, Game five got hurt. He didn't play game six. And I've been to Super Bowls, World Cups, World Series. I've never heard a noise, crowd noises, loud. When Willis, when he dragged his Leg out. That noise. The teams, both teams doing their layup line. The entire Laker team froze, turned around, saw Willis Reed drag his leg.

[Craig Robinson]

What happened to his leg?

[Michelle Obama]

Well, he had hurt his leg in Game 5 and didn't come out to warm up with the rest of the team. So the Lakers were thinking, okay, great. Willis Reed's not playing game seven.

[Spike Lee]

We're in good shape.

[Michelle Obama]

But he came out late. And I can't even imagine the sound of the cry.

[Spike Lee]

The Garden is.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, I mean, you know, when it's.

[Spike Lee]

Passed, we talk about tweet all time greatest Williams.

[Craig Robinson]

So this is one of your famous sports analogies that gets us back to team.

[Spike Lee]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

See what I have to deal with here?

[Craig Robinson]

This is what I gotta deal with.

[Spike Lee]

Sports is in every. You don't know that yet.

[Craig Robinson]

No. That's what you think, Spike.

[Spike Lee]

Sports. And Craig is Jackie Robinson. We go on and on.

[Craig Robinson]

But then you gotta know the game. It's like now. It took me five minutes to figure out, well, what happened to his leg?

[Spike Lee]

I want to say the listeners, please forgive me because I have something called. I don't have dyslexia. Ask something else.

[Michelle Obama]

What is that?

[Spike Lee]

The slippage should be slipping. Setting that up. That was nice, brother.

[Michelle Obama]

That was.

[Spike Lee]

It's also called Brooklyn too.

[Craig Robinson]

I'm generally good. I can keep us on course, you know, but the zero.

[Spike Lee]

I'm talking to my best friend. I didn't sleep last night.

[Craig Robinson]

I mean, shoot.

[Michelle Obama]

But let's talk about highest to lowest.

[Spike Lee]

Yes, please. When I was in film school, NYU graduate film school. I was introduced to Japanese cinema and Vaginal J.

[Craig Robinson]

Our producer Dan is losing his mind that you even brought this up. He's a Cile nerd.

[Michelle Obama]

Cile and Spike.

[Craig Robinson]

And we were just talking about. I do know that this was a.

[Michelle Obama]

A Kurosawa.

[Craig Robinson]

Kurosawa. And I'm like, no, I did not. So he's so happy. Please.

[Spike Lee]

In film school, nyu. In graduate film school, you introduced a lot of international cinema. And Rashomon really made a effect on me. In this film, there's a murder and a rape and characters each speak on it. In fact, that's where the term comes Rochemon effect. Where the same different people see the same thing, but different. So that gave. That was a kernel. But she's gotta have it. Where Nola's three boyfriend and her dress speak to the camera and say what? Their stories are left to the audience.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Who do you want to believe?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

And this film is not a remake. It's a reinterpretation of the Great film by the great Japanese filmmaker Kirigosawa High and Low. So we flipped this. So it's our title is called highest to lowest. But as a nod to Prince, we use the number two instead of.

[Michelle Obama]

I know that when I was watching it.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Spike Lee]

And I'm blessed to have work with my brother Denzel Wash. Yeah, he gives a performance.

[Michelle Obama]

We are blessed that you're working with your brother Denzel. You know, as some of our listeners may have seen, my brother in law, your husband joined us on the show a few weeks back and had a interesting opinion that ketchup is just for kids. But here at imo, our opinion is that ketchup is for everyone. And honestly, it has to be Heinz Mish. I would say that IMO is a pro Ketchup podcast.

[Craig Robinson]

Without a doubt. We believe in ketchup here at IMO and in life in general.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, so. But despite what my husband said, ketchup exists in our household everywhere.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. What are some of the ways you guys use ketchup?

[Craig Robinson]

Well, you know, there's the basics. Potato, french fry, ketchup, dip thing. I mean, it's always there. The girls, before they eat, can even start their meal. The question is always, where's the ketchup?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Especially with fries. Because it's a rare fry that you can get away with just salt and pepper.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. And having a little bit of that tomatoey, rich flavor. Vine ripened, you know, and you know, it gives it a little substance. You know, it's not dripping down your fry. And then barbecues.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes. I was gonna say grilling. You have to have ketchup for your burger. And I'm not even offended if I'm grilling and people put ketchup on their burger. You can dip it or you can have it on there. I'm not offended. I'm not offended. And I'm from Chicago. I'm not offended if you put it on your hot dog.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, and that's a question. Are you a poorer or are you a dipper? Because people have a certain opinion about ketchup. Some people want one application, other people want a bite, a dip. A dip, a bite. Do you have a preference?

[Michelle Obama]

My preference? It depends on what I'm eating. So if I'm eating a hamburger, I like to dip my hamburger into the ketchup.

[Craig Robinson]

Got it.

[Michelle Obama]

I love. Cause I want a bite of ketchup with my hamburger. But if I have a brat or a polish or I want to have it along the length of the brat.

[Craig Robinson]

I can picture that. Oh, and that just reminds me, even though my kids aren't young, as a mother of little kids, ketchup was an important source of vegetable intake, especially when it came to broccoli. I mean, you know, look, you want your kids to get their vegetables in, and let me tell you, ketchup is an excellent vegetable delivery system.

[Michelle Obama]

Absolutely.

[Craig Robinson]

We got a lot of broccoli down just with a little Heinz ketchup dip. Made the girls happy. I was happy. Kids were happy. Veggies were eaten. Life goes on.

[Michelle Obama]

And at the end of the day, it has to be Hines.

[Spike Lee]

And it's kind of sad because this might be the last film that we're doing. He's talked about retiring, but every time I read article, he's retiring, he's doing another movie. So who knows? So I. I said today, I'm gonna say, yeah, I'm gonna stop saying that. This is my last film. Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, I thought.

[Spike Lee]

I'm saying that. Yeah, because you keep saying that. It's gonna make it happen.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, that's right.

[Spike Lee]

And Denzel, you know, he said, oh, that was Spike. You know, I. I said it was. But you think it's so. So, yeah, yeah, Denzel, I'm gonna stop saying that.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Spike Lee]

In order mo Better Blues, Malcolm X, He Got Game, Inside Man. And here's the crazy thing. Both Denzel and I did not know eight years had gone past between Inside Man, Inside man and Highest Lois.

[Craig Robinson]

We both just. Time just went. Yeah, I wouldn't have. I wouldn't have thought that either. That 18 years.

[Spike Lee]

We were shocked. Like, 18 years.

[Craig Robinson]

But because, you know, inside mance feels fresh, you know, I mean, it. You know, it's a standout. I mean, it's on the top of everyone's favorite Spike movies. So it feels like it just happened, you know, and you. And you haven't aged. Not a. Not a second. Except for your slipology or whatever it is.

[Spike Lee]

But it has been all jokes aside, it's been a gift to work with Denzel and added, plus, he has season tickets for the Lakers.

[Craig Robinson]

You are so silly.

[Spike Lee]

So when his D comes out, I look over the Knicks. I got this right? And then the way it is now is a lot of times what they're doing now is like the stop teams doing travel. The Knicks are playing the Clippers, like, back to back. So I know the owner.

[Craig Robinson]

Well, it sounds like you made the movie schedule around the basketball schedule, Spike. And I wouldn't be surprised.

[Spike Lee]

Let me tell you this. When we were rolling with if I had a game and the Day. The night was shooting. People normally going home at 5 o'.

[Craig Robinson]

Clock. It's like early call time.

[Spike Lee]

They're cold. And why I said, I'll be home at dinner. They know if we're shooting on a game day.

[Craig Robinson]

You are crazy. You are crazy. What's it like to direct Denzel? What makes that partnership special to you?

[Spike Lee]

He knows what he's doing. He knows what he wants. He doesn't need 20 takes.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Wow. But also, he listens to notes. Look, he's not too big for that when you're great. I'm not gonna tell Denzel. Well, can you move a little? I mean, look, if there's a note, I tell him.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

But I'm not in his ear. Like, let's do his thing.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Now, actors aren't that level and not doing what I want to do.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

That's a different story. And Denzel, people don't understand. His privatization is so great. You think that stuff is written and it's not. It's like, right there, and it's the perfect thing you needed, but it's not in the script. And when he gets actor on his, like, on a level, and they start going back on improv, it's just.

[Craig Robinson]

How was it? Was ASAP Rocky also, you know, asap?

[Spike Lee]

I keep telling people.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, his performance. No, no, he showed up.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah. Asap. And Denzel, that's like a heavyweight fight.

[Craig Robinson]

Right, Right.

[Spike Lee]

He's on a heavyweight lightweight. Toe to toe.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

And these. And then.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, had asap.

[Spike Lee]

He's been in several films.

[Craig Robinson]

He's been in several films.

[Spike Lee]

So this is not his first film. Okay. He.

[Craig Robinson]

He was fun to work with.

[Spike Lee]

Here's the thing. Denzel is such a powerful actor. I've seen actors like wilt.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. It's a lot to work against.

[Spike Lee]

I mean, you've seen his work. You've seen, you know, what he is. Then you're like, I'm gonna see when Denzel was like, yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like being at practice with Jordan.

[Spike Lee]

Come on now. You know what I'm saying?

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, Lord, here we go.

[Spike Lee]

This is not sports talk radio, man.

[Craig Robinson]

Like, oh, my God.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

This is bidding for Brooklyn. Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

What's the.

[Spike Lee]

To the Yankees now? They stink.

[Michelle Obama]

What else is new?

[Spike Lee]

Hey, we got 27 rings, so don't, don't, don't, don'T.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay, back to asap. Oh, my God. Exhausting. I was just getting into hearing about asap.

[Michelle Obama]

No, we're back to that.

[Spike Lee]

Oh, good. Asap. He was like something else. He's like, you know, it's like he's like, I got testicles, too.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, that scene with him in the.

[Spike Lee]

The corn studio.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

In the recording studio. I know. Don't want to give it away for the listeners.

[Spike Lee]

And you know what's great about that? Denzel wants. Because if he's in a scene and he's killing the other person, like that's killing the scene.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Sweet Watts.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

And then here's the thing. Even before I was asked through this film, people have always said, A$AP looks like Denzel's son. Have you ever. You don't.

[Craig Robinson]

I've heard that. I've heard that.

[Michelle Obama]

I will hear that.

[Spike Lee]

Have you seen the film again?

[Michelle Obama]

Now I have to look for it. Cause I didn't notice it when we were watching the film.

[Spike Lee]

People saying that to me.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

For years. And so that adds another layer. Another. Thank you for that word.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Another layer. Because then on a subconscious level, it's just a father, son thing. It's father, son.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

So you're adding layer upon layer. And that just makes that lists the.

[Craig Robinson]

Whole film up now, in addition to Denzel, I mean, you have. You have given so many black actors and so many actors, period, because.

[Spike Lee]

Can't leave out Rosie Perez.

[Craig Robinson]

Can't leave out. Can't leave out Rosie. It's just been amazing how you've been so conscious about. Especially with Ozzie Davis, Ruby Dee. I mean, you King and queen, you know, kept a lot of really amazing actors in the zeitgeist, you know, so that generation.

[Spike Lee]

You just made me think of something.

[Craig Robinson]

What's that?

[Spike Lee]

Harry Belafonte. My father played with Harry Belafonte. And every time he would see me. Spike, do you have to use Ozzy ever since. Can't Ozzy just let me get one. And Ozzy's. Excuse me. And Mr. Belafonte. You had to call him Mr. Belafonte. His last film was Black Clansme. You know, his health is not good. So I didn't know till that morning. Well, he's come to the set. So I had a backup we had stashed away.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow. Really?

[Spike Lee]

I'm not saying he was, but hotel. I did not. I told the cast this day before. I said, you come to work, dress your Sunday best, and. Have you ever been on a film set, man?

[Craig Robinson]

Like this?

[Spike Lee]

Much like.

[Craig Robinson]

Much like here. I'm just kidding.

[Spike Lee]

Anyway, when the car rolled up, but everybody said, all right, he's coming. Everybody was out there. And when he got out of the car, people lost their minds.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow.

[Spike Lee]

I can only imagine bowing. Wow. That was a great Grinch.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow.

[Spike Lee]

For years he was saying, spike, you had to.

[Craig Robinson]

And you've got it.

[Spike Lee]

How does he get arrest for it?

[Craig Robinson]

Get.

[Spike Lee]

And you got him in for his last film.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, that's great.

[Craig Robinson]

You did it. But your latest film, you know, while there may not be a direct message, that last scene with Denzel and asap, there is a statement about the industry, the music industry, and sort of, you know, I don't want to give away a twist, but there's a cynicism about the way young people today use social media, how that affects the creative process. Can you speak a little bit about how you feel about sort of where things are, how film making has changed, how the creative process is being impacted.

[Spike Lee]

The thing that scares me. AI with arts now. All right. AI for this and that, but when it comes being writing scripts, TV shows, I'm not with that. Yeah. Because I don't think. In my opinion, you cannot duplicate human beings.

[Michelle Obama]

My opinion.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

A machine writing. I'm thinking about AI Music. Yeah, yeah. Plays, books. It's. Call me old fashioned.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, No, I. I know.

[Spike Lee]

Well, yeah. Just for the audience.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, okay. Sorry. My bad.

[Spike Lee]

I just think that there's some. There's things that are sacred as human beings. That. That's the arts. I have a problem with that.

[Craig Robinson]

How do you see it in. In the classroom? Because you're still. You're teaching.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, but they don't have to write papers for that.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay, but, but scripts.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, I read their scripts. I could tell they're not.

[Craig Robinson]

You can tell?

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, I can tell. Yeah, but like, I don't have exams.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, got it.

[Spike Lee]

But people, it's the students who are losing out, because they're not. And we know. Look at this table. We all know. And we learned this many, many times because we didn't get to where we are if it wasn't for that. You got to put the work in.

[Craig Robinson]

That's right.

[Spike Lee]

W E, R K.

[Craig Robinson]

See, just when I think.

[Spike Lee]

I love this solo.

[Craig Robinson]

Just when I think, you know, it's.

[Spike Lee]

Just like, you gotta put the work in.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, you're right. You're right.

[Spike Lee]

You think you're getting over, but you're cheating yourself.

[Craig Robinson]

That's right.

[Spike Lee]

And as parents, we've. We, we've. We've told our children, no, you can't. Oh, there's another one. You can't fake the funk.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, well, that one. Yeah, yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

So, Spike, I'm sorry. Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Spike Lee]

Yes, my sister.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, yes, I like that.

[Michelle Obama]

All right.

[Spike Lee]

Why you bogarted?

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Why you violated.

[Michelle Obama]

It might as well be the same. It might as well be the same here as it is everywhere. Go ahead, your highness.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, now I forgot what I was gonna ask. All right, what are you gonna ask?

[Michelle Obama]

I was just gonna ask, what does it take now to get thoughtful, original brave films made in Hollywood?

[Craig Robinson]

Okay, that was close to what I was gonna ask.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, well, what do you.

[Craig Robinson]

All right. So worked out. Worked out for me anyway.

[Spike Lee]

It's getting harder and harder.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Because the powers that be, they're just looking at the bottom line. I know for sure this personally, there are fewer and fewer people in those positions, the gatekeepers.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

That are willing to produce different type of material, more challenging type material, and not do what they think is a guaranteed thing. But there's initiatives, there's nothing's guaranteed. And it's just tougher. I mean, I have some friends that in the music industry, these labels are dropping people or firing people left and right. So I think there's something that's not just the industry of film, but across the board. And people are just.

[Craig Robinson]

Everybody wants the same type of. They want a category, they want a guarantee.

[Spike Lee]

But the audience is there, but.

[Craig Robinson]

They'Re not the audience. That's the frustrating thing. I mean, it's like you have conversations with some of the decision makers and they swear that the audiences don't exist, that the numbers bear it out, but that can't be possible. That some of the. One could argue that some of the drop in box office is because there's just not enough variety.

[Spike Lee]

It's the same thing.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, if I don't like action, if I don't like Marvel, if that just doesn't happen to be my thing, what am I going to the movie for? And then if you get out of the habit of going to the movie because you just assume there's nothing there.

[Spike Lee]

For you or you're gonna stream.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, that's the pattern. But I want to see a little bit of everything, you know, I want to see love stories, I want to see all kinds of faces. I want to see women leads, I want to see stories about coming of age, all of that and it be.

[Spike Lee]

And that's why the present Universal Pictures, when I did do the right thing, Tom Pollard, when we were talking about, oh, Hollywood doesn't take the chance they used to. Tom Pollack is a hero to me. He was. Everybody in Hollywood told him not to make do the right thing, that black folks would Come out of the theater riding. There was tremendous, tremendous, tremendous pressure on him. He just did a film called Last Temptation of Christ that Martin Squares Face he directed. He had death threats after that film. Yeah, he had to have armed guards with him and his family. And on top of that comes do the Right Thing. Right.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

It was courageous for him to go ahead and make do the right thing at the Last Temptation of Christ where him and his family was in potential danger. Potential danger. And we had the world. We had the world premiere. The world premiere. Do the Right Thing was in Cannes. And right then this was caused riots. I mean, but he stood behind the film. And I don't think there are too many people who are ahead of studios today that would do that. That would do that. So I'm giving love to my brother Tom because he people within Universal, his boss, the industry, the press, they said this film would make black folks run amok. And he thought otherwise. Yeah, but those very few of those people.

[Craig Robinson]

Few and far between. Yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

In the industry now like that.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, they exist. But you know, the algorithm, sometimes it plays too big of a role.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, speaking of, of helping folks, generational.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay, Segue.

[Michelle Obama]

We have a thing here on IMO where we get a question.

[Spike Lee]

From.

[Michelle Obama]

One of our listeners. And this happens to be from one of our listeners in D.C. okay.

[Craig Robinson]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

Tori from D.C. has got a question for us. This episode of Imo is sponsored by Chase Home Lending. Committed to supporting you all the way home with smart digital home buying tools and resources. Chase Home Lending is dedicated to helping individuals and families achieve their dream of home ownership. They offer expert guidance throughout the home buying journey, helping customers navigate the process with confidence. This brings me back to a time when we grew up living upstairs from my aunt in a two family home that she owned and we rented and it was a wonderful time. But being a renter, we had to be extremely careful of what we did. For example, we had to be quiet at a certain time. We couldn't play on the front lawn, my sister couldn't have a dog. And we didn't realize the importance of being a homeowner until we got late in life. We always would talk to our dad about why we don't own a home and he talked about being house poor. Little did we know that homeownership was a great way to build equity. My sister and I ended up buying our own homes later in life and we used that to help pay for our kids college. And that is a way where homeownership can lead to future success. Chase Home Lending offers personalized support, expert knowledge and access to valuable resources helping home buyers navigate the complexities of getting a mortgage. Their guidance ensures buyers find a financial fit and make informed decisions. Visit chase.com start to see how Chase can support your homeownership journey. Member FDIC Equal Housing Opportunity this episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a Non Invasive Colon Cancer Screening test Currently, the American Cancer Society recommends that if you are at average risk, you should begin screening for colon cancer at age 45. There are an estimated 60 million adults aged 45 plus in America who are not up to date with their colon cancer screening. So we need to change that by spreading the word about another option. The Cologuard test can help you put your health first and feel more in control of your colon cancer screening process. This easy to use screening test is delivered right to your door and allows you to collect the sample comfortably at home on your own schedule. The sample is shipped back to the lab for testing and results are available within eight to 10 days. It's simple, but the best part about the Cologuard test is that it allows you to start screening for colon cancer without all the hassle of preparing for a colonoscopy so you don't have to prep the day before. And by prep, you know I mean fasting and drinking all that liquid. You get to skip the stress of having to request off work, go under anesthesia, get a ride home, and all the other hassles that come with an invasive procedure. And in addition to its convenience, Cologuard is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket with zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door. Let's start prioritizing our health. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer with the Cologuard test. You can also request a Cologuard prescription [e-mail] podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a Cologuard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The Cologuard test is not a replacement for a colonoscopy in high risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older, false positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only. Hey everyone, it's Craig Robinson, co host of the IMO podcast with Michelle Obama, and I wanted to take a minute to talk about something that I don't use usually. Talk about my garbage bin. The one in my kitchen. I almost never use it anymore, if you can believe that. So I never have to empty it. I don't have to smell it. That's because I found out about the Mill food recycler and let me tell you, this thing has changed my family's life. It's about the size and shape of a regular kitchen bin, but it's sleek and beautifully designed. But you treat it just like your regular kitchen bin, that is. You can add almost any food scraps, even the tough ones like avocado pits and chicken bones. Just drop them in and then you forget about it and let the mill do its work. My mill knows how much I add and it works while I sleep. I can keep filling it for weeks and it never smells during that whole time. Our mill turns all of those food scraps into clean, dry, nutrient rich grounds. And you can use them in your garden or you can do what we do and put the grounds in your flower beds and pots. They've done wonders for our plants. Mill will also pick up your grounds and deliver them to a small farm for you. But you have to live with the mill to really get it. Good thing you can try it risk free and get $75 off mil.com imo that's mill.com imo this back to school season. Spend less on your kids with Amazon. I remember when my wife Kelly and I would be running around to a million different stores chasing down spiral notebooks, lunchboxes and that one specific calculator that somehow every math teacher requires. And look, I love my kids, but I do not love fighting over the last pack of highlighters in a crowded store at 7pm on a Tuesday. That's why I love Amazon. Amazon has everything for back to school. Backpacks, pencils, clothes, snacks, and even those dry erase markers the teachers secretly hoard. All delivered fast right to my doorstep. One click. No stress.

[Spike Lee]

Boom.

[Michelle Obama]

And the best part. I can shop from my couch with my now 15 year old and 13 year old. I grab their school supply list and I'm all set. Now instead of running around town stressed out, I get to actually spend the last days of summer with my kids. We're doing movie nights, bike rides, and even Dare I Say, back to school fashion shows in the living room. Parents, do yourself a favor, go to Amazon. Get your back to school checklist done in like five minutes while saving a few bucks. So remember, with Amazon's low back to school prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend on them is a dollar you haven't spent on them.

[Tori]

Hi, Michelle and Craig. My name is Tori and I'm a 41 year old paralegal in D.C. while I'm not able to have children, I've built a life focused on service, purpose and growth. From 2019 to 2020, my husband and I fostered refugee children, which deeply shaped how I view my role in the world field. I'm currently considering law school while also thinking about how to mentor and uplift others in the paralegal field. My questions are, how do you decide which path will allow you to have the greatest impact, especially when you're torn between multiple good ones? How do you cope with the feeling that you're not fully living up to your potential, even when you're doing meaningful work?

[Spike Lee]

Again, other words, that's a humdinger.

[Craig Robinson]

That's a humdinger we've got.

[Spike Lee]

That's deeper.

[Craig Robinson]

It is. It's a humdinger. And we've talked about this before in other conversations, but I don't know when you talk to your kids, because our kids are all in their late 20s, early 30s.ish. Seems like a lot of young people in that age group are struggling in that way. They're wondering, should they be doing more? Have they chosen the right path? I find myself having conversations with young people about having the patience to sit with where you are and find the meaning with what you're doing at the moment. All impact isn't big. All meaningful impact isn't big. You know, Tori is fostering refugee kids and it sounds like there's a lot of stuff going on in Tori's life right now where she's having a lot of impact. Being a good neighbor, you know, having impact with the people who are right in your midst, the people you have responsibility for. That is big impact, you know, and that to me is enough. If you.

[Spike Lee]

What's bigger than that?

[Craig Robinson]

What is bigger than that? What is bigger than that?

[Michelle Obama]

It feels like she's trying to figure out how to build a legacy. And I just, you know, I like what you're saying about being patient, but I think she needs some direction. And if I were to give her some direction, I would say to her, try different things. The right idea will eventually come to you. But in the meantime, you're doing some wonderful things by fostering refugee kids.

[Craig Robinson]

And maybe the how to is. How does, maybe Tori is trying to figure out, how does she explore different paths? You know, I mean, you know, a lot of kids don't have networks. A lot of young people, you know, you get into one profession and it's hard to figure out how to, to get to another or even explore. I know when I was. Came out of law school, thought I wanted to be a lawyer, Worked at a big firm, did all those things, only to find out after two years, my feeling was like, no, this ain't it. So how would I, how do I pivot? How did I figure out how to pivot? And it was something as simple as, you know, I had to think about who I might want to be. So there's some work that Tori has to do on her own. I mean, she's got a kind of dig deep and ask herself questions.

[Spike Lee]

Both of you, this question. I'm glad I was born when I was born to be a kid today. All this.

[Craig Robinson]

And it's just seems like there are too many choices.

[Spike Lee]

Not just choices, but we got Choice. You got 500 channels to go on, you know, just. Yeah, it's just, this is. I mean, I'm just. No, it's March 21st day of spring, 1957.

[Craig Robinson]

Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Because I know, say, Corny State was simpler back then, but it was just like.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

It's like bananas. Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

I mean, yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Good God.

[Michelle Obama]

And, and Spike, I don't know if you find this with the students you teach, but I hear this in young athletes. I hear it in young artists too. Everybody wants to be impactful right away. And that's unrealistic. It's unrealistic. And it gets back to what you were saying when we were talking a little bit about filmmaking, is you gotta put in the W E R K. That was too good. That was too good.

[Spike Lee]

Leave me with the.

[Michelle Obama]

Up.

[Spike Lee]

That's messed up. Don't, don't, don't. You say we won't.

[Michelle Obama]

But what are you telling your students when they come to you and they want to be Spike Lee right now rather than, you know.

[Spike Lee]

Well, they don't say they want to be me, you know, spill.

[Craig Robinson]

But.

[Spike Lee]

What I, I, what I do is that if this is what you want to do, you gotta be serious about it. And you may read that stuff, but there's no things overnight success. Because a lot of people, they say that, but they want to Leave out that you know they were giving blood to eat. Donating blood to eat.

[Craig Robinson]

They leave that out. They'll tell you the backstory. The dark.

[Spike Lee]

The backstory. And this is even more important. I tell my students, first day of class, I hope you are here because this is what you want to do the rest of your life. Because you want. Because this makes you happy. Because if you have a job, occupation that you love. That's a home run. That's a three pointer. Yeah. That's an 80 yard field.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, good Lord.

[Spike Lee]

That's our marathon.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Because when you have occupation that you love, you don't need to hit the alarm four times to get up. Yeah, you do that, you hit a job you hate. When I'm shooting a film, I don't have an alarm. Yeah, I know. I gotta be honest, at 6am I know when I need to put my skinny black ass to bed so I get sleep so I can wake up and do the job I love.

[Craig Robinson]

Like, we can tell Spike loves what he does minute he walks in, you know.

[Spike Lee]

Yeah, but you ain't seen me in the Nick game though. Actually, I have.

[Michelle Obama]

I have. It's rough.

[Spike Lee]

You know what?

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Spike Lee]

Will you be my guest?

[Craig Robinson]

I will.

[Spike Lee]

This season.

[Craig Robinson]

I will, I will.

[Michelle Obama]

Don't waste that on her.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, don't even.

[Michelle Obama]

Take me.

[Spike Lee]

Back a little bit.

[Craig Robinson]

I would be.

[Spike Lee]

You know what?

[Michelle Obama]

All right.

[Craig Robinson]

Be your guest at the Garden now.

[Spike Lee]

Be back. Please, please.

[Craig Robinson]

I would love it. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, give a last plug for the film. What do you want to tell the people?

[Spike Lee]

The new joint.

[Craig Robinson]

The new joint.

[Spike Lee]

The new joint is highest to lowest. Starring Denzel Washer Jeffrey wright A cast ASAP Rocky.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, it is.

[Spike Lee]

Stream it on Apple September 5th Apple TV plus yes. Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

You see how the slippage doesn't happen when it comes to, you know, it's like pull up beats and whatnot. I'd be like spiking. He not gonna know when the film drops. It was like, nope, not when it comes to the thing he loves. There is no slippage. I love you, Spike for this. Back at the rain range.