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Craig Robinson
Yeah.
Michelle Obama
You know, may I ask you a
Craig Robinson
question that would probably be cut out of the podcast?
Misha Euceph
Oh, yes, you can.
Michelle Obama
Craig is like, please.
Sterling K. Brown
He got his idea.
Michelle Obama
Yes, you can.
Craig Robinson
To get real for a second, because I think Ryan and I had this conversation before, too. If kids were not a part of the equation in terms of, like, do you think that some of the tough times may have led to a separation that didn't?
Michelle Obama
That's a good question. Um, no. No, no, no.
Sterling K. Brown
Here's.
Michelle Obama
This episode is brought to you by shift.
Misha Euceph
Hey, little girl.
Michelle Obama
Hi, Craig. Craigie.
Misha Euceph
Craig, how are you?
Michelle Obama
I'm doing pretty good. Yeah.
Misha Euceph
Yeah.
Michelle Obama
Once again, still enjoying our new IMO set.
Misha Euceph
I know.
Michelle Obama
Feeling pretty professional here in our new studios.
Misha Euceph
It's great. It's great and comfortable. Really comfortable.
Michelle Obama
It is.
Misha Euceph
I mean, the offices look great and they're comfortable and the studio is comfortable. I mean, it's just. It's incredible. And we're not even where we're gonna be.
Michelle Obama
No, this is.
Misha Euceph
We still got a little more to do.
Michelle Obama
This is just the beginning. Just the beginning. Speaking of comfort, where are you staying? This.
Misha Euceph
I'm staying in an Airbnb, once again, here. And really in a nice place that's about 20 minutes away. And listen to this. I had such a good customer service experience.
Michelle Obama
Tell me more.
Misha Euceph
So, you know, we went to dinner, we had a family get together.
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
Misha Euceph
We went out last night and Aaron and I, my 13 year old, we get back to the Airbnb and the lock is one of these, you know, you gotta figure out what the code is. And the numbers aren't always the same. And I'm like, I mess it up and we lock ourselves out.
Michelle Obama
Oh, I didn't know that.
Misha Euceph
Locked ourselves out. Called the host.
Michelle Obama
Oh.
Misha Euceph
And he was like, oh, just gimme a minute. And he hit a few buttons and the door opened and we were able to get in as. As I was about to panic that we were going to be locked out for the night. Really good experience.
Michelle Obama
That's really good.
Misha Euceph
Really good customer experience. So.
Michelle Obama
Well, I'm glad you're. You're. You're. You're comfortable that Airbnb is still hooking you up.
Misha Euceph
Yeah, yeah. They're right along with us. A great partnership. So, you know, we're enjoying it and really appreciate it.
Michelle Obama
Well, I am excited as always for today's guests.
Misha Euceph
And as folks can see, we've got two chairs here. So before we bring out Sterling, Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe, I want to do a little bit of an intro for our newfound Friends here so. Well, not so newfound because you've met Sterling before, but we go way back. Sterling is an Academy Award nominee and a three time Emmy award winning actor. He currently.
Sterling K. Brown
That's bad.
Misha Euceph
That's some tough stuff for a brother. You know, he currently stars and executive produces the hit Hulu series Paradise. And let me go on record by saying, you know me, if it's not a sports thing, I'm probably not gonna try and sit and binge watch it, right?
Michelle Obama
Yeah, you're pretty limited in that way,
Misha Euceph
let me tell you. So in preparation for this, you know what I try and do? I try and watch a.
Michelle Obama
You hadn't been watching Paradise.
Misha Euceph
I have not been watching paradise. But let me tell you the story. I'm watching it.
Michelle Obama
What a stooge.
Misha Euceph
So as part of the research, I start to watch it and I'm watching it and I'm like, huh, okay. And I get to the end of the first, the first episode and I was like, all right, let me just real quickly watch the second one.
Michelle Obama
Here it is.
Misha Euceph
And then it was like, let me just watch the third one. And then I look up and I was supposed to pick Austin up from school.
Michelle Obama
I left the babies. I was like, oh, Jesus, haven't eaten yet. No, paradise will do that. It'll mess you up, mess your life up.
Misha Euceph
You won't worry about that.
Michelle Obama
And it doesn't.
Sterling K. Brown
It just like sucks you in.
Misha Euceph
Just sucks you right in and you
Michelle Obama
can't let go and you mad at everybody.
Misha Euceph
And you know me, I'm a real snob. Cause I was watching the first episode, I was like, well, this is just your run of the mill, so and so. And then it got right to the end and I was like, oh, okay.
Michelle Obama
Oh, this is different. Okay, yes, okay, all right.
Misha Euceph
But I digress.
Michelle Obama
I digress.
Misha Euceph
Woo. And Sterling has also starred in an executive producer. I should be calling him Mr. EP when he comes out here. The acclaimed Hulu limited series Washington Black. He is also known for his roles in this Is Us American Fiction and the People vs. O.J. simpson, American Crime Story. Now, Ryan Michele Bathe recently led the NBC drama series the Endgame and the film Boy in the Wall.
Michelle Obama
It's My girl.
Misha Euceph
She previously starred in BET's First Wives Club and CBS's All Rise along with her husband Sterling K. Brown.
Michelle Obama
Two actors in the family.
Misha Euceph
Can you imagine? Two actors.
Michelle Obama
We're gonna find out what that's like.
Misha Euceph
Bethy hosts and produces the award winning podcast We Don't Always Agree with her husband, Sterling Teddy Brown.
Michelle Obama
That's Brave.
Misha Euceph
That is brave. And I've been listening. They got me listening to this now.
Michelle Obama
I know, right?
Misha Euceph
They're all in my feed here.
Michelle Obama
I know, right?
Misha Euceph
Sterling and Ryan, please come out.
Michelle Obama
Come on. Right. Because we need to. We need to talk through this. And.
Misha Euceph
And we gotta give. We gotta give Sterling a little bit more time to come out because he is injured.
Michelle Obama
Hey, guys. Hey, guys. We'll let you get settled.
Craig Robinson
Sure, sure.
Misha Euceph
Oh, man. Are you okay?
Michelle Obama
First of all, you comfortable?
Misha Euceph
You comfortable?
Michelle Obama
You need a pillow, you know, can we get you some?
Craig Robinson
I'm happy to be here. It's a true honor to be in you all's presence.
Michelle Obama
Oh, you're nice to see we're following in your footsteps. The podcast vets.
Craig Robinson
My wife was very nervous. She went through how many 50, 11 outfits.
Michelle Obama
Why you telling on her?
Craig Robinson
Well, because this is how important you all are to us, to the culture. What you mean to everybody. Like, you had. Your sphere of influence is immense and powerful and beautiful. Right. And so thank you. Like, truly, like, this is a real honor.
Michelle Obama
Right.
Sterling K. Brown
It's hard for me not to be, like, climbing your walls right now and just be like, so this is very good.
Michelle Obama
Acting like you're doing great.
Sterling K. Brown
I'm right.
Michelle Obama
You are composed. You're beautiful. Thank you. This is gonna be fun. This is family.
Misha Euceph
Yes.
Craig Robinson
Yeah.
Michelle Obama
Because we already know all your business.
Misha Euceph
You guys are agreeing right now.
Craig Robinson
Really?
Sterling K. Brown
Look at that.
Michelle Obama
You're agreeing on being excited to be here.
Misha Euceph
Let's hear how Sterling
Craig Robinson
finished shooting season two of paradise.
Michelle Obama
Thank God it didn't interrupt that.
Craig Robinson
My youngest son is a basketball player, and so his coach invited me to play. Like, in a coach's game.
Michelle Obama
It all begins with basketball with a black man in a Brooklyn with a torn Achille. It all begins with. And there was a battle. Basketball wins basketball game.
Misha Euceph
Now, see, if you had said we were out there playing golf or something,
Michelle Obama
she would have been like, it never happens there.
Craig Robinson
It doesn't.
Michelle Obama
But she's right on the basketball court.
Craig Robinson
The sports that it happens the most, because I've done two ACLs, and now this Achilles situation. The ones I hear, basketball, skiing, soccer, tennis. Now I hear, like, the pickleball people now.
Sterling K. Brown
Pickleball.
Michelle Obama
Some chiropractors say, Rich.
Sterling K. Brown
Yeah, yeah.
Craig Robinson
But I was making a move to the left, like, an innocuous step. Felt like somebody stomped on the back of my heel with the spike. And I started yelling. I was like, hey, man, who stepped on my foot? And they like, what you talking about, man? I was like, hey, just apologize for stepping on My foot. And we'll be cool. Keep the game going. You know what I'm saying? Like, just keep it going. Just apologize. And they were like, bro, nobody.
Misha Euceph
Nobody was near you.
Craig Robinson
It's that moment when you're like, you know what happened? You're like, man.
Misha Euceph
Cause you've heard that story.
Craig Robinson
You hear this story over and over again. I went to stand up and then I was like, nope. And I scooched my booty off of the court. My team won.
Michelle Obama
I stayed it in, like, because that.
Craig Robinson
It was important.
Michelle Obama
It was an important part of the story.
Sterling K. Brown
And you're like, you know that urgent
Michelle Obama
care place you were talking about the other day?
Sterling K. Brown
It's like, Sunday.
Michelle Obama
So what lesson have we learned from this experience?
Craig Robinson
Sterling, this is interesting. We had this conversation last night where my wife was asking me, are you still going to play?
Sterling K. Brown
Mm.
Michelle Obama
The. The ultimate wife question after a dumb ass injury. There you go.
Craig Robinson
So. So this is it, honey.
Michelle Obama
Are we still doing this?
Craig Robinson
This is so. This is what I reiterated, Coach. You let me know how you feel about this, okay? I'm a man of a certain age, right? I'll be. I'll be 50 next birthday.
Michelle Obama
Baby.
Craig Robinson
Baby. A total baby. Right. Sometimes when you talk to people that have given it up, my experience is there's a pervasive mentality of, like, I've gotten too old to do xyz. I don't like the idea of getting older. Means that I've gotten old. So while I know I have to amend my game, I may have to do set shots. I may have to take it a little bit easier on defense. I don't like the idea of giving something up because I think that that is a pervasive sort of mentality that I don't want to invade the rest of my life.
Misha Euceph
I like it.
Michelle Obama
Okay.
Misha Euceph
Does that make sense?
Craig Robinson
Like, I'm not trying to be stubborn.
Michelle Obama
No, it does. Yes. So how are we about stretching?
Craig Robinson
Very good.
Michelle Obama
Okay.
Craig Robinson
I stretch.
Michelle Obama
My education part here is like, even more stretching.
Craig Robinson
Yes, ma'.
Michelle Obama
Am. The older we get, the more stretching. What are you laughing about?
Misha Euceph
I promise we're going to talk about we.
Craig Robinson
But I appreciate.
Misha Euceph
But I will tell you.
Michelle Obama
No, these are the things I will
Misha Euceph
tell your thought process about stopping.
Michelle Obama
Yeah, no, it's a good one. It's a good one.
Misha Euceph
Is not faulty. You want to play as long as your body allows you to. And there are masters leagues for guys who are my age still playing. You can play competitively. As competitively as you like or as calmly as you like, even if you're just playing three on three.
Craig Robinson
Sure.
Misha Euceph
But what I want to tell my sister, there is a finite number of games in everybody's body. And when you get to yours, you have an Achilles tear. Some people will get it at 49 and some people won't get it.
Craig Robinson
Right.
Misha Euceph
You cannot prevent what happened to Sterling stretching or no stretching.
Craig Robinson
Right.
Misha Euceph
I'm sure your doctor told you that.
Craig Robinson
Yeah, no, it's just one of those things.
Misha Euceph
Stretching is really good for you.
Craig Robinson
Stretching is important.
Misha Euceph
And also stretching is really good for you.
Michelle Obama
Shut up, boys.
Craig Robinson
I'll say this too, that, like, I've been making this sort of adjustment in terms of how I run from landing on the heel to trying to land mid foot. And I also think that there's something about the tennis shoes that we wear that don't allow the strength of the foot muscles to be strong enough to necessarily support stuff. So I think my foot wasn't strong enough to support what I wanted to do in terms of. And I had to start wearing a thinner sole shoe. So as I do my recovery, I'll try to work with thinner. So like, when Ry works out, she works out barefooted. And I see like every time I do a little bit of the barefoot workout, I'm like, oh, this hits different, you know, Cause you're balance and the little foot muscles are trying to work different. And I think I need that as I get back.
Sterling K. Brown
So I'm a very small home gym. I'm not at a gym barefoot. Because that's. That's nasty. Thank you to Xander.
Michelle Obama
Like, I don't want to say nasty. Can I say nasty?
Sterling K. Brown
Yes. Nasty. Yeah. So, but we have our little home thing and. And I started doing that for that same reason. Cause somebody was like, oh, it's about toe strength. And I was like, well, I don't know how to strengthen a toe, but
Michelle Obama
it's like, you gotta use them.
Craig Robinson
I pull on em sometime. I pull on their toes.
Sterling K. Brown
God.
Michelle Obama
Okay, well, then that gets us to My marriage.
Craig Robinson
Bed is under five.
Misha Euceph
Let's go.
Sterling K. Brown
Oh, my word. He's doing everything he can to embarrass me. I'm just telling you now. I'm just telling you now.
Michelle Obama
We love it. We love it. So tell us about the podcast. Let's start there.
Misha Euceph
How did this come about?
Michelle Obama
And how's it going at home after the podcast?
Craig Robinson
Ooh, this is. This is good. I like that. I'll take the second question. You take the first one.
Sterling K. Brown
Okay.
Craig Robinson
Okay.
Sterling K. Brown
So the first. It's weird how it came about. It came about because I really Thought to myself, there have to be people out there on the right. That I. This was before. Yes, it's like before. Before I said, there have to be sane people I can talk to. I used to follow, like, David French and a few other people I even Googled. It was actually at the. When President Obama was saying, don't argue with the trolls in the basement. Like, try to have face to face conversations. And at the time, I was like, I'm gonna take that mantle and change
Michelle Obama
my country and I'm gonna start with.
Sterling K. Brown
So I was like, there's gotta be somebody. I wasn't able to find anybody necessarily and looked and looked, but I did, I did, I did look.
Michelle Obama
I did look.
Sterling K. Brown
I couldn't find nobody.
Craig Robinson
Did this begin with, like, chicks on the right?
Sterling K. Brown
Is that I wasn't gonna give them? Yes, it was chicks on the right.
Michelle Obama
I did it.
Misha Euceph
I found chicks on the right.
Sterling K. Brown
There was chicks on the right. And that's who I found initially. But then they kind of veered more and more right. I was like, you know, so. And I even reached out to them, like email, because I was like, there's got. This has to be able. We have to be able to have these conversations. And I was just convinced and I could not find it. But I was like, how do we have conversations about things we don't agree on, even while agreeing on our basic
Craig Robinson
humanity, without them sort of devolving into argumentation, but still staying in the spirit of, like, there's a give and take. There's a conversation that's not like, sort of antagonistic, but like, all right.
Sterling K. Brown
And a real disagreement, like a real. Like, I stand on this side of a thing and you stand on this side of a thing. But it turned out the only person that I could have those was my husband.
Michelle Obama
Was my husband. And some people can't have it with their partner. So, yeah, they called husbands. I got that. I got that.
Sterling K. Brown
But we've known each other for so long that I think we've. And we're so. We came up with such similarities. We were born in the same hospital, both from St. Louis. We were both, you know, very Born to very religious families, you know, very close to our grandmothers. But then there were so many things within that that were so polar opposite that we've decided over the years that we can't. Obviously, we can't change each other. But what we can change is. But what we can do is learn to sort of live a little bit better with those disagreements. And so we were just standing around and you know, it was the strike.
Craig Robinson
We were in the middle of the strike, and Brad was also looking for the actor strike, a creative outlet that would feel good. And I've always been sort of reticent to work together because I've seen more
Sterling K. Brown
than reticent, more than reticent, more than reticence. Sterling, you've been very resistant.
Craig Robinson
It just makes the heart grow fond, you know, it's nice to go off to work and come home and be like, how was your day? Oh, this was my day.
Sterling K. Brown
That's not what you said.
Michelle Obama
All right, Ryan, what's your version of that?
Sterling K. Brown
You said, I don't want you annoying me at work.
Michelle Obama
Do you remember that? Sterling, do you remember those words? This sounds right. Oh, man.
Craig Robinson
It sounds right. But not like I want to be.
Sterling K. Brown
Not in a bad way.
Michelle Obama
Oh, no, not in a bad way. It's like, you should have your space and I should have mine. That's what I'm talking about.
Craig Robinson
You understand?
Michelle Obama
Madam First Ladies, my word.
Misha Euceph
This segment, sponsored by Shipt, is all about the comfort of knowing it's handled. You know, there's something really comforting about realizing you don't have to carry everything on your own. When life is already full, having one less thing to worry about can make all the difference. It's that confidence and calm that come from knowing something that's taken care of without having to micromanage it. And I think it really showed up for me when I went from being an assistant coach to a head coach. You know, being an assistant coach, there's tons of things you gotta worry about, from recruiting to film exchange to setting up road trips, to planning practices and workouts. You're responsible for executing all of these things as an assistant coach, but as a head coach, you have to oversee all of these things. This was a big change for me. And what really made my job as a head coach easier was my executive assistant, who not only could anticipate things, but she also thought like I did and could prepare me for any situation, whether it was prepping for a media spot or meeting with alums, parents, recruits, or if I just needed to know someone's name in a room full of people who I didn't know. She can anticipate that and her reliability always made me feel like it's handled. I didn't have to worry. Misha, I'm curious. When you think back over your life, what are some of the moments that made you truly feel comfortable and calm?
Michelle Obama
Well, probably my eight years in the White House. For some of the same reasons that you described. You know, I was kind of like the head coach of the office of the First Lady. And with so much on your plate, you know, moving from one event to the next, I just didn't have the time or the capacity to worry about the details, whether we were gonna be on time, who I was talking to at any given moment, you know, what the weather was, how I was supposed to dress. So I had to rely on my team. And it was always a source of comfort to know that my team of people around me were on top of it, making sure that I had everything that I need so that when I entered a room, I could just be me.
Misha Euceph
That feeling of confidence is exactly what we're talking about. It's why I appreciate solutions that actually earn your trust. And thanks to Shipt for sponsoring this segment with Shipt. Same Day Delivery I have one less thing on my mental checklist. Shipt offers that same day delivery from a variety of favorite national stores and local retailers in one easy app. Shoppers with Shipt are known for exceptional attention to detail and quality service, so I can feel confident everything is handled with care. Try Shipt for yourself. Download the app or order now@shipt.com that's S H ipt.com working on your mental health doesn't happen all at once. It happens in moments. One conversation, one deep breath, one session at a time. Growth Therapy makes it easier to begin As a coach and an athlete, I've always believed taking care of your mind is part of taking care of your overall game. You train consistently, you build the right support around you, and you give yourself space to improve. Therapy can be part of that routine. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th, grow makes it simple to find a therapist who actually fits you. They connect you with thousands of licensed therapists across the US with virtual or in person sessions including nights and weekends. You can search by insurance, specialty, identity or availability and start in as little as two days. No subscriptions, no long term commitments, just pay per session on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com imo today to get started. That's growththerapy.com imo growththerapy.com imo availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan,
Craig Robinson
So but I also thought that the concept for the podcast was something that was really cool and it sort of fit with the dynamic of our interplay. Like, we are very Beatrice and Benedict, if you're familiar with Much Ado About Nothing. And just sort of like there's a verbal sparring that we have naturally, that is fun without crossing a line. Every once in a while, we both cross a line. And after the podcast we go, hey, listen, man, did you have to say. You're like, oh, I thought we were doing fun. And I'm like, no, come on.
Michelle Obama
That one hurts.
Craig Robinson
That one hurts. We have this thing. So we have this thing where, you know, we played a dozen. Me and my kids played a dozen.
Michelle Obama
Oh, here he does.
Craig Robinson
And like, you know, they'll say, well,
Misha Euceph
wait, wait, let's explain. Explain the dozens. Cause we got listeners who like the dozens.
Craig Robinson
You know, just sort of dronin when you're like, sort of like making fun of each other, but a good spirited sort of thing where it's not meant to hurt, but just sort of gentle ribbing.
Misha Euceph
Gentle, gentle ribbing that sometimes gets serious.
Craig Robinson
Sometimes it gets serious.
Sterling K. Brown
Well, I didn't grow up with the gentle ribbing.
Michelle Obama
Let me tell the story.
Misha Euceph
Okay, go ahead, go ahead.
Craig Robinson
So I'm doing it with the fellas or whatnot. And I'll be like, they be like, you look old, man. I said, your mama old. And they're like, that's your wife. And I'm like, I don't care. But that's just messing with them, right? And so I said something to Ryan, just sort of messing with to get her to go back. And she goes, that's why your mama has als. And I was like, whoa, man, that's not right. That's not.
Michelle Obama
You ground me. You missed.
Craig Robinson
Did you not understand what was happening between the playfulness?
Michelle Obama
Oh, man, she just went right up. Wait a minute. Ryan is like, I bet this for her. Hang on, hang on.
Misha Euceph
Brian. Did she have any brothers growing up?
Michelle Obama
She's an only child.
Craig Robinson
That's why she cut.
Sterling K. Brown
I do have an older sister, but
Michelle Obama
I did not grow up with an older sister.
Sterling K. Brown
And I did have a cousin.
Michelle Obama
Isn't this the game?
Craig Robinson
Look, me and the boys, me and the boys all looked at each other.
Michelle Obama
I'm like, aw.
Sterling K. Brown
It didn't quite sit down quite like that.
Misha Euceph
To the point of winning, I mean.
Sterling K. Brown
Well, yeah, that did happen. I, I, I, I.
Michelle Obama
The point is to win the argument. It's like, I know what will make to take you to your knees. So, Brian, what was your version of that approach?
Sterling K. Brown
My version was that we back and forth and like, I had Run out of things to say. And then I did. I did reach for that.
Michelle Obama
Yeah, it did. It's not. It's not better. Oh. Oh, sweetie.
Craig Robinson
I thought.
Michelle Obama
I thought you were, like. You got a really bad thing to say.
Misha Euceph
Oh, my goodness.
Michelle Obama
And I didn't want to stop.
Misha Euceph
That's great.
Michelle Obama
Oh, yeah, that's.
Misha Euceph
That's how you end that argument.
Michelle Obama
I did not know how to do it. Everybody go home. Everybody go wipe your tears.
Ryan Michelle Bathe
I know.
Craig Robinson
But getting back to.
Misha Euceph
Damn it, you're. The kids were in the room.
Michelle Obama
Oh, yeah. We were even better.
Craig Robinson
All doing it with each other. You know what I'm saying? Those dudes start chopping.
Sterling K. Brown
Well, no, they're just like, oh, you
Michelle Obama
know, we can't play with mom. Mom goes dark. She goes dark. Oh, Mom. You know, mom don't know how to play. And Brian got out the shovel. She got out the shovel. Oh, man. That's a good one.
Misha Euceph
This is great.
Michelle Obama
Oh, man.
Craig Robinson
So I said, we have this dynamic, and I also would say that because we've known each other since 18, we'll be celebrating 20 years of marriage in March. There are things at this point in time in our life that we can talk about that we probably couldn't have talked about earlier in the marriage without it feeling like we were reliving it. We can recount it now without reliving. So it was the right time.
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
Sterling K. Brown
Yeah. And like, I think you mentioned this on the pod, your podcast, where it's like, you want to sort of give a vulnerable and real portrait of something that, you know, we can't ignore the fact.
Misha Euceph
Oh, goals.
Sterling K. Brown
Oh, look at them.
Michelle Obama
Da, da.
Sterling K. Brown
And it's like, you see a certain thing. But it did feel like there was a responsibility there somewhere that we were like, okay, but we also want people to know what this really is. You know, it takes work. And we could really talk about, you know, the ways in which we struggled and the ways in which we didn't struggle and the things that, you know, came easy to us and why. And the things that came difficult to us and why. So that people really didn't, you know, really don't think that it's just a. I woke up, found my soulmate, and every day is just.
Michelle Obama
Yeah, that's right. That's right. Because don't you find that couples quit too soon? And we've seen this in young people now everybody's young, right to us. But new couples. And part of the reason why I talk about it being hard is not because I don't love my husband. And we have a wonderful relationship. We've been married 30 plus years. Something works, right? But if you don't let people know about the tough times, then I think they quit to.
Craig Robinson
They think that, oh, sometimes you're in that. I guess it didn't work.
Michelle Obama
That's right, it didn't work. And then you quit too soon.
Craig Robinson
Sure.
Michelle Obama
And that's why I say things like, you can go through 10 years, bad years, right. In a 30 year marriage, and that's still great odds. It's not a bad, you know, and every time I say it, people are like, oh, Lord, I can't do 10. But if you were to play the odds of like, if, if you could have 10% of heart for 90% of wonderful, you would take that every. And that's really the point. The point is that in any long relationship, there are gonna be years, months, hours, long periods of time. If you add it all up, where things just don't feel right, you don't quit on it. You know, sometimes that means you dig deeper. And if you don't dig deeper, you miss all the stuff on the end, you know?
Craig Robinson
May I ask you a question that Rob you cut out of the podcast? No.
Misha Euceph
Yes.
Michelle Obama
Okay, please.
Craig Robinson
Yes, you can to get real for a second, because I think Ryan and I had this conversation before too, in terms of the ups and downs, trials and tribal triv. I'm missing it. But you know what I'm talking about. If kids were not a part of the equation in terms of like, do you think that some of the tough times may have led to a separation that didn't?
Michelle Obama
That's a good question. No, no, no, no. I'd like to think not. Here's what I think. Sometimes without kids, some of the tough times wouldn't happen. Right?
Craig Robinson
Facts.
Michelle Obama
And this is why I say, look, it's great when it's just YouTube, you know, and because there really isn't challenges with division of labor because everybody can be their own individual people. You go off, do your movie.
Sterling K. Brown
Yay.
Misha Euceph
Yay.
Michelle Obama
We have our separate lives and then it's romantic, we get back together. The thing that makes that harder is when those beautiful, wonderful, lovely kids that we all want and love, they show up.
Craig Robinson
Yes, ma'.
Misha Euceph
Am.
Michelle Obama
With their own agendas, you know, with their own needs. And now it's the first major joint project that you have to do together. And that's when the hard starts, you know. So I think a lot of our hard was because of the kids who we love deeply, very much so. But I think without it without them. You know, a lot of the hard things don't come up, right? Cause you could. You can go to the gym all you want when there are no diapers to be changed. Thank you. You know, you could do whatever you want. Who's driving? Do you know how the Michelle's have been talking? Do you know how to make a dental appointment? Do you know where they go to the doctor? Do you know their doctor's name?
Misha Euceph
You started it.
Craig Robinson
So don't, you know, you chime in, cringe, right? What do you got to say to her?
Misha Euceph
I will say that, see, I've been married twice.
Craig Robinson
Okay.
Misha Euceph
And hopefully that'll only be twice.
Michelle Obama
Don't say hopefully.
Craig Robinson
I got you definitely knocking on the woods.
Michelle Obama
Say hopefully.
Misha Euceph
Yeah, no, it will, it will be. But I will say the difference between the first and the second was that because the first marriage didn't work out, the second marriage, I really intentionally talked about ground rules before getting married.
Craig Robinson
That's good.
Michelle Obama
I mean, look, athletes devote careers to a jump shot, shoot shot after shot. Years and years and years and years. You have one bad argument, you have one bad year in a marriage, I'm done and you're done. Or you have three bad years and you're done. And look, the level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It's earned over time. And it's only gotten better. And I think that's the point. It gets better and then if you quit too soon, you'll rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in. And We've been married 30 years. We're healthy people. We could be married for another 30 years. That's a long time. And it could be 30 years of absolute bliss, you know, because we've done the work, we've gotten over the hump. Our kids are grown, they're out. We're looking at each other like, hey, remember you. I'm not mad about anything. Cause I don't need you to do anything for me.
Craig Robinson
You guys are ahead of us. I want to ask these questions. I have a question for you. You guys are actually on our podcast right now. Every once in a while we have these moments about empty nesting and the joint venture that you're talking about and how much time and resource that you spend on these both two people, right? And then the idea of what happens when that project is over and have you neglected the time that you need to pour into one another because you've been pouring into these two beautiful people. Like, did you look at each Other like, oh, man, now we gotta do this again. Or do you feel like you prepared yourselves knowing that the nest was about to be empty and be like, all right, Barack, all right, like, how we gon. We need to make sure that we are straight in this moment.
Michelle Obama
I think we're still developing that part of ourselves. Right. I mean, our youngest, well, she went to college. She's been out for five years. Right. My math is always graduated from college. Five years left. When I say leave, left for college.
Sterling K. Brown
Okay, Right.
Michelle Obama
Because that's the beginning of the leaving. Like, you packed your bags and you're not gonna be living here for nine months. That's a good one for sure. It's a good start, right?
Craig Robinson
Yes.
Michelle Obama
And that's.
Sterling K. Brown
You might go in the suitcase. Two things might.
Michelle Obama
When you get there. Cause you haven't even gotten through the teen years. No. You know, you're there.
Sterling K. Brown
Lord have Merc.
Michelle Obama
Right?
Craig Robinson
We have. The 14 year old is beginning.
Michelle Obama
You know, they just, you know, you'll be ready when it's time.
Sterling K. Brown
Okay.
Craig Robinson
That was a knowing.
Michelle Obama
Yeah, you're gonna be ready. You're gonna be ready. But I think it's a new phase for us, which takes time.
Craig Robinson
Sure.
Michelle Obama
It's gonna take like we're in a new phase of life. My husband did the hardest job. He reached the top of the thing you could do. Now he's got work to do, individual work to figure out where am I gonna be? What do I wanna say? Who do I wanna be? I'm doing the same thing.
Sterling K. Brown
Right.
Michelle Obama
That's a whole new assignment that you have to factor in to the newness of now we're doing this. We're back to just me and him. It takes time is all I'm saying. All of these new stages take time for adjustment. When you guys had when the boys were infants, you know, when one was just coming out of diapers, and that's a whole new phase. When, you know, you move from everybody's in a crib to people are walking around, like that can change the whole nature of your interaction with your partner. It takes time. So we think this stuff, this is like really hard, complicated stuff that you are negotiating with another person. You know, All I'm saying is, like, it all takes time. And to think that there aren't gonna be bumps along the way of each of those phases. Yeah, right.
Craig Robinson
This is. Okay, wait, so this is interesting. I love this conversation. This is wonderful. This is wonderful. Michelle, thank you so much. So in my mind, like, the question is for the listener in terms of Navigating tough times and Craig being on a second marriage. Now, when do tough times become a step too far? What is the deal breaker like? Ryan and I say for the most part is like, there are no deal breakers for us. There are just things that we have to negotiate. There are things that we figure out. I say a rather crude thing about if you did this very bad thing to me, Sterling, do you want me to say it?
Sterling K. Brown
No, I do not.
Craig Robinson
Would I embarrass you?
Michelle Obama
Say it.
Sterling K. Brown
Embarrass me.
Michelle Obama
We don't want to embarrass, and I
Craig Robinson
won't go into it.
Michelle Obama
Okay.
Sterling K. Brown
It is funny, but it's not.
Craig Robinson
It's funny, but it's not for the literary.
Michelle Obama
Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Craig Robinson
But I was like, if you did this awful thing to me, that would be the deal breaker. Right. And it's really something that she would never do.
Michelle Obama
Okay. Yes.
Misha Euceph
Right now I can imagine have an idea of what you're talking about.
Craig Robinson
But my question is then, in terms of navigating these difficult times, right, for people who are also in the midst of difficult times, who are probably asking themselves, what. What's the difficulty? That's too much. Obviously, if there's anything that's physical, that's transpiring inside of a relationship, don't stay in some sort of abuse. Well, and I would say even verbal, psychological, physical, et cetera. Abuse is not something that is meant to be tolerated. Outside of that, I'm curious, do you feel like there are deal breakers or things that you feel like people should walk away from or everything is meant to just find your way through?
Misha Euceph
I'll start, please, because I will say now, in my relationship with Kelly now, there are probably no deal breakers for me. She might have some, but there's probably nothing for me. We could probably work through anything that I could think of, aside from your scatological. But I think we can make our way through it. But I wouldn't have said that when we first got together. Okay. That's years of work. That's years of talk. That's years of both going through our own difficulties and coming out of it, and together having difficulties and coming out of it. And you just. You emerge at a different level of understanding. A higher being, a higher power. Just that at a higher level of understanding. That's how I feel. I mean, it would really have to be something that I couldn't have seen coming that was so bad. But then I would be so worried that what was I in this relationship to make you want to do something that bad. I got to take the responsibility of it. So that's just my own growth over the years.
Craig Robinson
I love that. I Love that.
Michelle Obama
Yeah. 30 plus years in. I mean, like, he's me. We're so intertwined at this stage in life. Our experiences, our challenges, our family are like, he would have to become a different person like that. I would be like, who took over your body? And then we would be going to doctors and I would probably call the FBI, you know, I mean, because I'd have to be like, something happened to my husband. It's not the same person. And then I'd be worried, like, what is going on?
Sterling K. Brown
Right.
Misha Euceph
Nope.
Craig Robinson
I felt that.
Misha Euceph
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Craig Robinson
Yes.
Misha Euceph
Yeah, I think it's so different because Meesh didn't meet Barack until later.
Craig Robinson
Right.
Misha Euceph
I didn't meet my first wife until after and I didn't meet Kelly till way later. You guys knew each other freshman year. Freshman year and are still together. I wanna know how does that happen?
Craig Robinson
How does that happen? What do you have to say to that, Bert?
Sterling K. Brown
Well, I think because I always look at it like life kept throwing us back together, you know, and similar to, like, yeah, no, I'm good. Like, we would go away. We would purposefully go away, and life would just keep tossing us back. In the, say, our very first job, we were not speaking. We had just graduated from grad school. And I never forget.
Craig Robinson
Yeah.
Misha Euceph
This was on your first episode. Did we talk about this on the first episode?
Ryan Michelle Bathe
I don't.
Sterling K. Brown
Did we.
Craig Robinson
Did we talk about under five on the Guiding Light?
Sterling K. Brown
It was under five on Guiding Light. And I remember where I was when they said you got the job, and I was so excited. It was your first job. I was in.
Michelle Obama
I was in one of those, like,
Sterling K. Brown
you know, those big stores on, like, 42nd. Like, you know, not H and M, but like, you know, V, I, M. Anyway, your jeans and sneakers.
Michelle Obama
I was in Vim.
Sterling K. Brown
Don't forget. Because I always wanted to go, you know, it's like. Cause it's a commercial. So I was in Vim and I was looking at stuff. And they were like, and you got the job.
Michelle Obama
I was like, oh, my God, yes,
Sterling K. Brown
I'm on my way.
Michelle Obama
I'm on my way.
Sterling K. Brown
Right? And they were like, and you got. Your other classmate is in. And I was like, who? And they said, sarah Suri is one of my dear, dear friends. I was like, yes, Sarah Suri and another classmate. I was like, oh. And they were like, sterling Brown. And I was like, they're like, hello. I was, oh, yeah, I'm here.
Michelle Obama
Yay.
Sterling K. Brown
We were not speaking, and we played a husband and wife.
Craig Robinson
That is correct.
Sterling K. Brown
In a Lamaze class.
Craig Robinson
Yes, ma'.
Misha Euceph
Am.
Sterling K. Brown
On Guiding Light.
Craig Robinson
For sure.
Michelle Obama
Why weren't you all speaking? What happened? Who did? What were you. Was it mad I'm not speaking, or you just weren't in touch? No, it was not.
Misha Euceph
Y' all were off the time they met.
Michelle Obama
It was. Who knows? I think she was the point.
Craig Robinson
Speaking to me.
Sterling K. Brown
No, you weren't speaking to me. Sirloin.
Michelle Obama
No, no.
Craig Robinson
Facts, facts. But what I'm saying is, like, we did our last show at nyu, which was Midsummer Night's Dream.
Sterling K. Brown
Yes.
Craig Robinson
And I see you come off stage. I'm like, yo, man, you just ripped that scene. I just want you to know it was really good. And you just walk.
Misha Euceph
That's.
Sterling K. Brown
Who asked you, Gene? Nobody asked.
Misha Euceph
You ghosted. Before there was a term ghosting.
Michelle Obama
You know what you did.
Craig Robinson
But after. After sustained neglect, I was like, all right, I'mma stop trying now. So we had stopped talking to each other. So we get on set to do this scene, and she. What happens is anytime she knows that I've pulled away, she purposefully is like, hey, Sterling, how are you? What's going on? Like, hey, what's going on, man? How you doing? It's good.
Michelle Obama
You see, to.
Craig Robinson
So we had to do this scene, and she's sitting in my lap. You know, she's pregnant, and I'm holding her up or whatnot. And the Lamaze instructor is going by, and she said, and, dads, you're gonna have to look after the mommies. You're gonna have to do this and that and give them sponge baths and everything like that. And the line goes. Ryan looks over her shoulder, and she looks at me, and she goes, sponge bats. And I look at her and I say all the time. Except when we do our line, she looks at me and she's like. She's touching me. And all this stuff. And I'm like, oh Lord, please stop touching me. And then she looks at me and she goes, sponge. And I looked directly in her forehead.
Michelle Obama
Yes.
Craig Robinson
And I said all the. He could have looked me in the eye.
Misha Euceph
You looked over and she could tell.
Craig Robinson
She could tell. The camera could not.
Michelle Obama
Yeah. And I'm doing this and you're trying to make it be.
Craig Robinson
That's my camera right there, Brown. Don't make it look real.
Michelle Obama
Uh huh, right. He's like, that's why I'm an actor, that's why I'm here.
Craig Robinson
Man, she's getting on my nerves.
Misha Euceph
Wait, now, now I want to digress, please, just for an acting thing, because you husband and wife, both actors.
Craig Robinson
Yeah.
Misha Euceph
When does the discussion happen about each other doing makeout scenes with someone else?
Craig Robinson
It's a great discussion.
Michelle Obama
That's a very good question. The man wants to know.
Misha Euceph
Well, no, it's.
Michelle Obama
How do you know? I'm just kidding.
Misha Euceph
I think that's a question.
Craig Robinson
I think the public.
Misha Euceph
Yeah, the public wants to know. I've never heard anyone ask that question. Because either people don't have an opportunity or they're just like, I'm not gonna bring it up.
Craig Robinson
It is acting. And what a lot of people don't realize, it's not as glamorous as you think it is. There's sweat and like people are coming to powder you. And you have to hit this right angle because the camera can't see something or what have you. And it's very sort of like choreographed or whatnot. And I always tell the bird, I was like, hey man, make em look like you know what's going on. Like, don't let them think that. Don't let them think that we ain't having a good time up in the streets, you know what I'm saying? Like we know how to get in there. So like, you know, don't go out
Michelle Obama
and act like you know what you're doing is what I'm trying to say.
Misha Euceph
Show em you got skills.
Craig Robinson
There's no real jealousy in that sort of arena there because like we both have said like to do it well. It's not about pretending as much as it is investing in the given circumstances so much that you are living the truth of that character in that time. So you gotta fall in love a little bit and you gotta be attracted a little. And that doesn't threaten anything that we have because we know where we sleep at night, we know who we've made our vows to, et cetera, et cetera. It just means I want you to act well, and hopefully you want me to act well and that we can. And sometimes. Here's the other thing. You can take some of the energy that you got on set and bring that home. And bring that home.
Michelle Obama
Bring it home, Birdie.
Craig Robinson
Bring that home. That's what I'm saying. Because a lot of people ask that question, how do you do that? How does that. It's my job. It's her job, and you do it.
Michelle Obama
Have you ever felt.
Sterling K. Brown
I just don't watch. She doesn't know this, but I just. When the scenes come up, I just close my eyes.
Michelle Obama
Yeah. Like, I might get some ice cream.
Misha Euceph
Yeah.
Sterling K. Brown
I just don't want. I just don't. I don't want to fast forward. Yeah.
Michelle Obama
I just. I just don't watch. Yeah. I don't know if I could watch.
Sterling K. Brown
I don't even like watching myself, though.
Craig Robinson
She does.
Sterling K. Brown
You know what I mean? Especially in those particular. I don't like watching myself necessarily. I have to. Because I have to see what I've done wrong or what I did, you know, I have to see. But certain things. There are things on First Wives Club that I still haven't watched myself do. I was like, no, I don't need to do that. And for me, I think it's the only way that I can sort of do what you say in terms of living in that moment. I have to just kind of, like, take a deep breath, live in the moment, and then I really just have to let it go, and it has to stay gone for me. So I can't ruminate on the scene, and I can't ruminate on your scenes, and I just have to, you know, I just. I just don't watch.
Michelle Obama
Well, that makes me think, well, like, you guys didn't answer the question, really. It's like, how did. How have you worked through some of the tougher times in your marriage, and does one particular time stand out to you?
Craig Robinson
There are. So Craig was saying something earlier about, like, you know, two actors navigating the industry together. Right. And so there's something about. You're gonna have your own take on this, and that's fine. And I just ask that you let me finish my take first.
Michelle Obama
Okay.
Sterling K. Brown
We don't always agree.
Michelle Obama
Go ahead.
Misha Euceph
You don't always agree, and he is
Craig Robinson
preparing for you not to. I just ask that you allow me to finish my take first.
Misha Euceph
I love that.
Craig Robinson
Before you offer yours.
Sterling K. Brown
Okay.
Craig Robinson
Please and thank you.
Misha Euceph
Thank you.
Craig Robinson
Appreciate it. There is sometimes this feeling of, like, all right, when There is momentum happening in one person's career. You have a desire for momentum in your own career as well. And while you can say and truly believe that, like, we are doing very well right now, whether it's financially or otherwise, if the other person isn't experiencing something that is validating for them on a personal level, whatever's transpiring for you may feel very separate and distinct. And so I will say that there are times in which I'm like, how do I make sure that my wife feels included and acknowledged and appreciated, as there's a certain level of momentum transpiring in my life, and there's varying degrees of success in terms of us feeling connected in it and separate in it. So that's an ongoing thing that I'm navigating after you,
Sterling K. Brown
I would say, you know, George Burns was asked this question about his long Hollywood marriage to Gracie, and he said, we never fell out of love at the same time. And I can look back at our. And I really do believe that we've. I don't know that that's a deal that we've made or something that's just kind of sustained us, but I don't think we've ever fallen out. And even before we got married, I would say that when one pulled away, the other one was like.
Michelle Obama
And when.
Sterling K. Brown
You know what I mean? So I don't think we've ever decided at the same time. I'm done with you. And so I think that there is something that. That makes one of us, if not both of us, but at least one of us is always pulling for us.
Craig Robinson
I would agree with that.
Sterling K. Brown
And so I think that that's at the very, very core, at the very, very root of it, we believe in therapy. We very much believe in therapy. I think that that has given us an opportunity to kind of see the forest for the trees. Like, what you were talking about is, like, okay, you might have some bad news. Like, it's only been six months. Like, let's see what happens when the baby is walking. And then that's a whole nother corner, you know, literally and figurative, that you're gonna turn together. I also think that because we have the children.
Craig Robinson
We do have the children.
Sterling K. Brown
Again, you'd like to say that. Well, no, it's not. We're not just staying for the kids. You'd like to say that. But it is. We do know that there's something bigger now than just the both of us and whatever is going on at that moment. Yes, I can be very volatile, and I Can, you know, there was.
Craig Robinson
Say it again in the microphone.
Michelle Obama
No, I have not. I'm not joint.
Sterling K. Brown
I know, but like you asked things that you thought about when you were younger that you wouldn't put up with. Like there is definitely a 19 year old me that would have had the time of her life with a very dramatic. I'm catching this banging.
Michelle Obama
Like that would have been part of the fun. Right? Come find me, girl.
Sterling K. Brown
You going and girl, we gonna meet.
Michelle Obama
Where we gonna meet?
Sterling K. Brown
Like, you know, the whole. I think I did that when I was pregnant, when I was giving. Cause I gave birth at home. And I remember there was, you know, stuff flowing on, stuff blood on. I looked in my hand, I was like, it's bloody. And I put it on the wall and I was like, ah. And I screamed so that I could
Michelle Obama
have the bloody handwritten down.
Craig Robinson
Is that I do remember.
Michelle Obama
This is the only child drama, girl.
Craig Robinson
It's strong. Reach out. There you go. Me and you shall never part. There you go. Make it happen.
Michelle Obama
Oh my God, I love it. So you can think of some stuff?
Sterling K. Brown
I really can. I really can, ma'.
Michelle Obama
Am.
Sterling K. Brown
But I think that I have put a lot of that and said, okay, now, now, now you have. It's not just you and the dramatic moments and all of those things. There is something bigger that's calling you and it is those 30 years on the other side. It's the children and what we can provide and it's all of that. And it just feels bigger than just whatever that small moment is or even that big moment. That's not to say that there haven't been big moments, but I think that there's something bigger that calls us to fight for what we have.
Craig Robinson
I'm gonna go back and just combine the two things together because it feels like when things are difficult, if we feel as if we are in them together, they are way easier to endure versus when we feel as if we're separate in it. You know what I'm saying? Like that's, that's always like. That's probably the toughest times that we have when we feel like we're going through something as a couple, as a family and. Or individually and we don't feel like we're on the same page. Those are the times that are the most difficult, I would say.
Michelle Obama
Yeah. Brian, I want to just check in with you on, you know, because you talked about the fact that you sacrificed your career to be there for your kids. You made some. You made some choices that, you know, that is the story of so many women out there, we can talk about being equal partners and so on and so forth, but we give birth, our bodies change. We are constantly adapting in ways that our partners, our male partners, do not have to do it. It's a part of it. And so we wind up saying, you can have it all, but not at the same time. Sometimes that's easier said than experienced.
Sterling K. Brown
Most of the time it's easier said. Right.
Michelle Obama
I'd love to hear more from you about how you felt through those moments. And, you know, how you're. I know you're still dealing in those moments. And how does that. How are you. How are you coping with that reality?
Sterling K. Brown
That is an excellent question.
Craig Robinson
Very good question.
Sterling K. Brown
Yeah, you know, it's.
Michelle Obama
It.
Sterling K. Brown
Gosh, that's a really good question. Because when you first. I mean, you can see it. I mean, you're pregnant and everything. Everybody's like, oh, so excited for the both of you. And then you look down, I'm looking at you, you look. You know what I mean? And you're slowing down and you're changing and you're waddling and this, you know, like, wait a minute. How, like I. I'm already slower than. I had really bad hyperemesis, which is when you just, you know, you're sick, sick, sick. And, you know, and then not. Not sharing any of that.
Michelle Obama
He's going to the gym.
Sterling K. Brown
Going to the gym.
Michelle Obama
I'm gonna get a good workout in. And you're like, shut up.
Craig Robinson
That makes everybody mad. I see this now. This is a universal thing.
Sterling K. Brown
And then he tried to tell me, and the baby was brand new. He's in the gym. He's like, but I'm working out outside in the garage.
Michelle Obama
You're welcome.
Sterling K. Brown
Like, he really felt like he had given me this very magnanimous gift. And I was like, if I could get up from this couch and beat you into some, like, I would, you know. And again, it's. You're watching. And again you want to be. That's the pull, I think, that a lot of women don't realize. Women don't realize the kind of mother they're going to want to be until the baby shows up.
Michelle Obama
There you go.
Sterling K. Brown
And you have no idea. No idea. Some women decide whether it's breastfeeding, whether it's. I want to. Whatever it is, you don't know. It's an experiential thing. And when you. All those decisions are made very deeply in your core, and I don't want to say they're made on the fly, but they're made in these sort of like, just. The baby's here. That's the decision. And so you had all these plans, right? And everybody told you, girl, you gonna snap back, girl. All you have to do, remember, we read them. You just do the clans, girl. Do the cleanse, you know? And you're like, okay, well, I'll. And in your mind, you really believe that you're gonna just do this cleanse. You're gonna pop back, you're gonna put that baby in a little pouch, and you're just gonna.
Michelle Obama
You know, you just drop them off somewhere or have somebody else come in. You don't even know how you'll feel about that.
Sterling K. Brown
You don't know how you're gonna feel about that.
Michelle Obama
When you'll be ready for that.
Sterling K. Brown
You don't know how much it's gonna cost. Yeah.
Michelle Obama
Ooh. Yes.
Sterling K. Brown
You don't know that. The woman that you wanna hire was given a signing bonus, but.
Michelle Obama
Signing bonus. I tell the story. When I. We did find a babysitter, she came to us at everything. I was back to work. I love this woman. She was a part of our family, loved the girls, and she just needed to make more money, and we couldn't pay her more money, and she left. And I still feel that her, like, I feel the. Like, you know, I was losing my real partner in this endeavor. Oh, I wouldn't have thought I would have felt that way about my babysitter. My she. You know?
Sterling K. Brown
I know.
Michelle Obama
And that sent me spinning. That one thing sent me spinning in a fit of deep desperation that I would have never thought.
Sterling K. Brown
Well, experience, I mean, and I. Having had that experience, I understood if I hadn't had kids, I'd be sitting here going, oh, that sounds like a lot.
Michelle Obama
It's like, are you sure?
Sterling K. Brown
Maybe you should. Is that ptsd?
Michelle Obama
But you have to.
Sterling K. Brown
To experience that, you know? Like, Zoila is. Zoyla Palacios is our girl. I call her my sister wife. You know, she.
Michelle Obama
And shout out to Zoila.
Craig Robinson
Zoylita.
Michelle Obama
Zoylita. Hey, girl. We love you. We do. We love our Zoilas in our lives.
Sterling K. Brown
And because you have that. You know, that what we grew up with, which that village, the grandparents, like, somebody. You know, my grandmother never left the house. Somebody was always dropping a child off at that woman's house. And my grandmother was, like, in her 70s and could barely. And I'm like, you gotta. Who's Tom Horizon?
Michelle Obama
She's like, I got him.
Sterling K. Brown
And nobody batted an eyelash. Didn't have a thing. And not narin. A socket in the house. You know, the little thingies.
Michelle Obama
That's right.
Misha Euceph
Nothing to protect them from inside.
Michelle Obama
And nobody was worrying about what strain of food they were eating. Whatever grandma gave you was totally fine.
Sterling K. Brown
She had some fat back and some sauce and a baby holding on to
Michelle Obama
some kind of bone. It's like, I think they should have meat again.
Craig Robinson
They'll be fine.
Sterling K. Brown
I know.
Michelle Obama
My question, right? You just knew your baby was loved and safe.
Sterling K. Brown
Yeah. Cause my grandpa had, you know, and
Michelle Obama
those communities are gone.
Sterling K. Brown
We didn't have that. And we're some of the first people who don't have that. And so then we have to hire that and find that. And to your point, it's like losing a. It's not like it is losing a family member. It is losing a crucial part. And again, you don't know what you're going to feel and experience until you get there. And again, to your point about each season. So now I'm like, okay, well, it should be getting easier, right? Because they're older and. And I know a 14 year old and I'm like, oh, well, I'll just. Let me just. I'm a chauffeur, but I also am like, I clearly need to ride the bus with you. I clearly need to be in every class. I clearly need to be at Functional Girl. Well, he thinks he can. He told me once, he was like,
Michelle Obama
all I need to do is learn
Sterling K. Brown
how to use this toaster oven.
Michelle Obama
And then I've got it. Like, I've got it.
Misha Euceph
Like, I'm basically a man.
Michelle Obama
And I was like, you don't know the WI fi code.
Misha Euceph
All I need is a credit card and a driver's license. I can live on my own.
Sterling K. Brown
Please, sir.
Craig Robinson
He said, all I need you guys to do is take me where I need to go.
Michelle Obama
No, that's a big one. But for that, who's gonna pay him for school?
Craig Robinson
And he didn't even meet him. Please just leave me alone. Take me where I need to go.
Sterling K. Brown
He did ask me when I was. He was three. He said something.
Misha Euceph
He was.
Sterling K. Brown
Something was happening. He was three. And he was like, why you always in my business? Like, who.
Michelle Obama
Where did you come from?
Craig Robinson
That's Michael.
Michelle Obama
That's another thing.
Sterling K. Brown
The thing that you love about this man, you are going to see it in a child. Like, oh, Lord, I should have thought this through. But.
Michelle Obama
But every phase is different. And now you're, you know, just when you thought. Just when you think because you didn't
Sterling K. Brown
know, again, it's the experience of it. And it's like. And now you see, oh, this is how things can go left. Cause you think it's when they're little and you're just pouring in. You're pouring in. That's the other thing.
Michelle Obama
Don't you want those days back when they were so in your control and all you had to worry about them was falling and scraping a knee? And now they are in the world, this world.
Craig Robinson
It's a good conversation, you guys.
Michelle Obama
Yeah, you guys are good.
Misha Euceph
We just learning. We were learning from the experts.
Craig Robinson
No, I feel the same way. I feel like even in Rise approach and I feel you guys are similar is like we try to enter into everything with a level of curiosity. We're not experts on anything and just hoping to learn. Like, we're all in a process of evolving to become the best form of ourselves. I think in doing that, like, there is just sort of like, teach me. Like, I'll share a thought and then let's see how it all sort of reverberates in the. In the cipher.
Misha Euceph
What I love about doing this, aside from getting to spend time with my little sister on a regular basis, is that I learn something new in every conversation. And at this age, to come to work every day and feel like you're learning something new is inspirational.
Craig Robinson
Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.
Michelle Obama
We agree. We all agree.
Misha Euceph
Well, we have a question that we get from our watchers and listeners.
Craig Robinson
Oh, this is good.
Misha Euceph
And this one is from our hometown, Jackie from Chicago.
Craig Robinson
Come on, Chateau.
Sterling K. Brown
Love Chicago.
Ryan Michelle Bathe
Hey, Michelle and Craig. Shout out from Chicago. I'm writing to seek your advice about my relationship with my husband of five years. We both teach at the college level and share a deep commitment to education and our students. And much of our connection is built on a love of learning and a belief in bettering ourselves and the world. However, our creative paths and temperaments are quite different. I work in substance abuse, social work, and my husband is a musician and visual artist with a strong creative drive. We each experience our work so differently. My husband tends to experience excited creative highs surrounding performances and exhibits, followed by times of withdrawal and low mood after he's done or between shows. In those times, he's focused on his classes and getting the next show off the ground. But he can seem quiet and distant at home. He kisses me good night, tells me he loves me, but doesn't initiate much conversation or interaction. Although I need some creativity with problem solving in my work, I'm not involved in the creative arts at all and don't necessarily experience the same emotional waves here's where I need your advice. I sometimes find myself hesitating to ask for intimacy or suggesting going out on a date when my husband is experiencing these moments of just needing to recharge by sitting together quietly watching tv. I worry if I ask for affection or conversation or intimacy during these phases, I'll sound selfish or insensitive. But if I don't speak up, I start to feel disconnected and dissatisfied. I want to be a supportive partner during his creative slumps, but I also need to feel seen and wanted. And I miss the closeness that comes from shared moments out or together in bed. How can I best balance his need for space and creative solitude with my own needs for intimacy, affection, and quality time? How do I show up as a good partner who values his mental health and well being without losing sight of what I want and need in our relationship? Thanks so much for all your great work.
Craig Robinson
Better tell Jackie to get out of my marriage.
Misha Euceph
Welcome to imo.
Michelle Obama
What?
Craig Robinson
Jacqueline? Cause here's the thing, and you'll probably say the same thing, possibly or not. I think I'm just.
Sterling K. Brown
Are you Jackie?
Craig Robinson
I think I'm Jackie.
Michelle Obama
Brian's like, I'm Jackie.
Craig Robinson
That's what I was about to say. That's why I was like, you may feel the same way, but she asked you guys, so you guys.
Michelle Obama
No, she's asking the table. She's asking the table.
Craig Robinson
I mean, I'll start on it because, like, I feel like we had a conversation kind of like this last night.
Michelle Obama
Oh, wow. Tell us more. Are you okay? Ryan, we ready? Okay.
Sterling K. Brown
I wonder where it's going.
Craig Robinson
But it was about sort of, for me, understanding the nature between acceptance and resignation in terms of, like, this is what it is. Like, what to fight, to change and what to accept in its current status and be at peace with. And like, the difference between acceptance and resignation, as far as I can conceive of in this moment, is, is acceptance has a certain level of peace and resignation has a certain level of sorrow and sort of like, when to fight, when not to fight, when to yield, et cetera. So I can say this, and you step in, please, because I want a back and forth on this one, because it'll feel better.
Misha Euceph
Okay.
Craig Robinson
My experience of rai when she is working versus when she is not working is very different. And there is a level of just sort of like, like joy. And because there's a certain level of fulfillment from coming to do this because she's enjoying doing the thing that she's wanted to do, what she wants to do. Right. And. So we ride a wave sometimes. We ride a wave sometimes.
Michelle Obama
And do you feel closer when she's in that joy? Yeah. Okay.
Craig Robinson
Hands down. Hands down.
Michelle Obama
So the not working part you describe as. That's Brian's slump. Yeah.
Craig Robinson
Mm. Agree. Disagree. I mean, you speak on it. Because I don't want to go too far. Yeah.
Sterling K. Brown
I'm back to Jackie.
Craig Robinson
Come on, now.
Sterling K. Brown
I was trying to.
Michelle Obama
Touche. As the children would say.
Sterling K. Brown
Is she talking about the times when her husband is not working at all on something creative, or is she talking about the low that comes from, like, coming off of stage? Right. Cause that's a real thing. Like, you come off of stage and you have this high from doing whatever it is, and then you come off and you're just buzzing. And then you kind of go into a slump either, like, immediately after. So I'm trying to discern. Is she talking about. He's had this incredible emotional high. He's come off stage and now he's home, and he's like, ugh, like, feeling the after effects of that, and that's when she wants to sort of step in. Or is it. He's been on a creative journey, had a wonderful time, and then he's in between creative journeys. So I'm.
Michelle Obama
I read it as the latter.
Sterling K. Brown
The latter.
Michelle Obama
But that's how I inter. That's a good question. That's how I interpreted it, because it sounds like, you know, those periods, you know. Cause the after stage I need a day is a different emotional. Would create a different emotional instability for Jackie than I haven't. I'm not in my element for a year or months. Right. And that could lead to the kind of disconnection that she's talking about. So I interpret it as. These are. You know, there are periods in a creative person when things aren't coming, things aren't gelling. And he seems. Jackie's partner seems to get really low and disconnected. That's how I'm reading it.
Sterling K. Brown
Okay.
Michelle Obama
Okay.
Sterling K. Brown
Thank you for that clarification.
Michelle Obama
This is.
Sterling K. Brown
All right. This is a very difficult question. You know, I think. I think that there has to be. Well, you know, we already said that your happiness is your own responsibility. Right. And I don't want to tell Jackie necessarily to go do her own thing, but I do think that there is something about creating structures around these times, especially if, you know that these are times that happen. I'm not sure. In their relationship, because she mentioned that they were both professors, so I'm wondering if they can. It might be easier for them to Create structures around this. Because maybe there are, like, seeds, set points in a year where he's like, I just finished a show, or, you know, something like that. So maybe it's helpful. I hope this is helpful for Jackie to set up those structures when she knows he needs a couple of weeks and maybe. Maybe put a timer on it. You know, Jennifer Aniston said something that I love. She said that her therapist told her, you get a year to grieve this, like, to the day, like, and it starts now. Now you're on the. And when that year is up, that's. We're done. And I do think that there's something to. That maybe there's something to giving him two and a half weeks, three weeks. And she knows those three weeks are coming, so she can set up her own life, her own, you know, not saying she should go on a vacation. Although Jackie, if you go on a vacation, that's not the worst idea. But maybe there's a way that she can know that these things are coming. He can have his time. And then when those three weeks are up, he has to re. Engage with her. So maybe both of them can have what they need. And he may not understand that this. He may not even know it's happening. Cause it's just how life has been for him. And now he has to contend with another person. And his way of dealing with it doesn't. It just doesn't work.
Michelle Obama
Yeah. I latch onto the question of should I communicate these thoughts? That's Jackie was asking. And I would say yes, you communicate to your partner how this is making you feel, because maybe you don't feel like you're in a safe space. But I think at the very core, I would say, Jackie, it is not helpful for you to hold on to these feelings and not involve your partner in this challenge. And it may be better to do it in a time where he's up, you know, rather than piling on at a time when he's perhaps already emotionally vulnerable. So thinking ahead to, like, okay, you know, assuming that all else is fine and they're not teetering on the brink, that she's gotta remember how she feels when times are good, you know, or remember the bad times when times are good. Cause sometimes it's hard to have a conversation when everything is a tough conversation when everything is good. But it might be necessary for her to say, hey, you winning? Look at you. You just created this, and now you're coming home. Now, let's talk about last month. You know, I didn't Want to share this with you, but, you know, I don't even know if you notice, but when things aren't going well for you, you tend to show up in this way. It makes me feel this and feel that. Can we talk about that? Do you see it in the same way? You know? Cause she also wants to get a sense of what is he really feeling. She's interpreting what she thinks he's feeling if she hasn't asked. So she's gotta give him some space to say, right, wrong, yes. You know, no, that's not it. Or, ooh, spot on. And then in that moment, let's. Let's talk through this. Let's talk through a plan. And this. I think this, Ryan, is where the plan of, can we get some agreement now that if we both agree that you're doing this and that it's making me feel this way, how can we resolve it? And is there a period of time? Is there a signal? Is there a word? Is there a. Or do we set up a structure that no matter what, we're always gonna go on a date night once a month? We're always gonna mark the box when we are intimate. We're just gonna practice our way through your bad time. But that's gotta be a joint.
Craig Robinson
Yes.
Sterling K. Brown
Cause he may not know. He may not even realize, especially if this is something that he's been doing before they got married. So it may be a complete blind spot for him. It might be a blind spot, Jackie.
Michelle Obama
It might be a blind spot.
Misha Euceph
But that's good. So we got some points for Jackie, and I think it starts with the communication. You have to communicate it, and then.
Michelle Obama
And she shouldn't feel guilty or feel like she should hold onto it.
Misha Euceph
Yeah. There's some other issues there. If she doesn't feel like she can communicate.
Craig Robinson
There's something I think that may not have been fully articulated that was part of our conversation in terms of what you said, man. If you make a bid for connection and you feel as if that bid for connection gets rejected, then it's like, then what do you do? You know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, boy. It's like playing double Dutch sometimes. Like, when do I get in with this cat to try to make this connection? And if you got hit by the rope, you're like, ah, dang it. I didn't get in at the right time.
Misha Euceph
You gotta be blunt, though. You have to be blunt. If that happens, speak on it. Coach, come on. In my experience, you can't tiptoe into the right. Or if you tiptoe into the rope, you know you gonna get hit. But if you go in confidently and bluntly, you gonna jump right in and get your steps down.
Craig Robinson
That's good.
Sterling K. Brown
That is good. Maybe that's what she needs. She just needs the confidence to boldly say what her truth is.
Misha Euceph
Or I need to have a deeper conversation about what's going on here. And that gets to the negotiation, which gets to your structures. I mean, I love the sh. I'm a structure person.
Craig Robinson
You have 30 points.
Misha Euceph
Coach me. Coach me up. Coach me up. And I will do what I can. But, you know, and sometimes in these relationships, and I don't want to get too far afield, I want Jackie to hear those three points. But I also want to talk about how Jackie can't be one of these folks who gets upset that because the guy is like, coach me up. She doesn't want him to say coach me up. She wants him to figure it out on his own.
Craig Robinson
You expecting people to read your mind is what you're talking about.
Misha Euceph
Expect people to read your mind. Which is why you got to go in bluntly.
Craig Robinson
Okay.
Misha Euceph
That's why you got to go in bluntly.
Michelle Obama
Well, and then you gotta also acknowledge that for Jackie, expressing her intimacy needs could feel. It could. It could feel risky. She may make her feel vulnerable. I mean, sometimes asking for. Having to ask, you know, that might tap into some insecurities about her. It's like, maybe I'm not worthy. Maybe I. You know, so, you know, sometimes that I want you to read my mind stuff is about, like, don't make.
Craig Robinson
Come on. Empathy.
Michelle Obama
Like, don't. Don't make me say it, because it's hard for me, and I feel unsafe. And this is where you gotta know your partner. Cause what's their history of safety and intimacy?
Craig Robinson
I am Jackie.
Michelle Obama
You know, Sterling.
Sterling K. Brown
Well, it's like, you guys. You guys had someone on your podcast who was talking about the edge of vulnerability, like, finding the edge in terms of the vulnerability with your partner. And I feel like this is.
Michelle Obama
That was Orna. Orna, yes.
Sterling K. Brown
And this is very much that, like, she is really at. Jackie sounds like she's at the edge, you know, to your point. About, like. Well, there's something there that's very scary for her, and she's at that edge and, like, teetering, you know?
Michelle Obama
Yeah.
Sterling K. Brown
But I think she's. She may feel unsafe.
Michelle Obama
Sterling is feeling. I'm like, you need me to hold your hand?
Craig Robinson
I'll take.
Michelle Obama
I know. Just let it go. You are good Enough.
Misha Euceph
Listen.
Michelle Obama
Ryan's like, please, boy, calm down. Beautiful.
Sterling K. Brown
I think Jackie is. She chose this partner for a reason. And I think she should remember that and remember that she. It may feel unsafe, but I think I like to believe that she might be safer than she realizes.
Craig Robinson
There, you know. Now you know I'm Jackie, don't you?
Michelle Obama
You are not Jackie.
Craig Robinson
Jackie.
Sterling K. Brown
You are not Jackie. Jackie is Jackie.
Michelle Obama
You are.
Sterling K. Brown
Sterling, leave Jackie alone.
Craig Robinson
Every woman. It's all in me now.
Misha Euceph
Now, wait. I hope Jackie knows we're not taking her thing lightly.
Michelle Obama
No, she got some good direction. Yeah.
Misha Euceph
Now I wanna. Before we move on to the IMO segment, the social segment.
Craig Robinson
Yes, sir.
Misha Euceph
You two met each other before today, but you didn't get a chance to. So tell me about that.
Michelle Obama
You've been rubbing it in for years.
Craig Robinson
It's been like 12, 13 years until.
Sterling K. Brown
Yes, for years.
Craig Robinson
I did a show called Army Wives on Lifetime and there was. I believe it was like a luncheon for military. Military spouses, et cetera. And you invited cast of Army Wives because we were on the air at the time and it was like an episode of Key and Peele. The receiving line. Everybody was in the receiving line and all the ladies were coming through. And Madam first lady was like, nice to meet you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for your service. Everything like that. And Brown got up there and I was like, can I have a hood? And she said, boy, please come. And we just. It was like the arms were out, the guns were showing. I was like, ver, guess who hugged me today.
Misha Euceph
A real hug.
Craig Robinson
Madam first lady held me in her arms and I felt loved and seen and appreciated. And Ryan looked at me like, are you. She was so mad. And the more the. The more I shared, the more angry she became. And then the more I said. I was like. She hugged me close.
Michelle Obama
Not even. Right.
Misha Euceph
So did you commemorate that? The.
Craig Robinson
It was one of the great days
Misha Euceph
of my life, so I know my sister wanted to commemorate.
Michelle Obama
You have it. You have it. Watch your Achilles.
Misha Euceph
Not hurt yourself.
Michelle Obama
Oh, my gosh. Brian wasn't lying. Look, you're right, right. This is short, you guys.
Craig Robinson
This is like the greatest day of my life. You gonna get to take a picture after this and then you'll be fine.
Misha Euceph
We are going to get a. A copy of that so that Mish signs it for you.
Michelle Obama
I remember that moment too, Sterling. I do. I do. Was one of the things. One of our strategies with joining forces, our effort to support military families was working with Hollywood runners and writers to really reward and uplift Shows that were shining a light on military families and also get writers to put them into scripts in ways that were normal and natural because most people don't understand that struggle. So your show was one of the leading ones, and we thought a lot of the military wives and moms were watching it.
Craig Robinson
Yes.
Michelle Obama
So we were like, this would be a fun moment. So it was really special. I think my mom was probably there, too. I think she was at that luncheon. But it was really. And the fact that the cast and crew took the time to come to the White House to help honor those women who were sacrificing and serving, it was really the background.
Sterling K. Brown
And I see the background.
Michelle Obama
I remember all your belts.
Misha Euceph
Yeah, those belts. You can't miss those belts. You cannot miss them.
Craig Robinson
I don't know if you can come in on my camera, but this happened. Like, bro, you think I'd just be making something up?
Sterling K. Brown
Bro, don't be making something up.
Michelle Obama
This happens.
Craig Robinson
Thank you all very, very.
Michelle Obama
You are so silly.
Misha Euceph
You are welcome. Thank you for being here.
Sterling K. Brown
Are you kidding me?
Michelle Obama
We can't wait. Well, before we go. Cause, you know, you guys will be working together again sort of a bit on the next season of paradise, one of my favorite shows. I am there.
Craig Robinson
Thank you.
Michelle Obama
I am. You know this.
Misha Euceph
Johnny, come lately. I'm late to the party.
Michelle Obama
Johnny, come lately.
Craig Robinson
I'm there when you're ready.
Misha Euceph
You know, it's much better when I can just breeze through.
Michelle Obama
Well, sometimes I just let em pile up.
Misha Euceph
Oh, do you hear that?
Michelle Obama
I do. I just.
Sterling K. Brown
It's a psychological.
Michelle Obama
No, it's a psychological discipline. Because I just can't. I need to.
Misha Euceph
Psychological discipline.
Sterling K. Brown
No, I agree.
Craig Robinson
Can I say this part? This last part to end. Because I was talking on. That was us. I do a rewatch podcast with this is us. I was saying this about my wife, and I would put you, Madam first lady, in the same category. And I'm sure if and when your husband gets a chance to hear this, he'll echo. There is one of the greatest gifts you can give to someone who has not fully realized their potential at that time is to say yes to them in their current set of circumstances and just believe that this is an individual that regardless if they have all the trappings that come along with what I want success, or what I think success or what society says success should look like, I still choose you. That is one of the most emboldening and wonderful feelings that you can ever have in life. So to both of you, I say thank you because it means a lot it means a lot. Yeah.
Misha Euceph
Oh, that's a. That's a mic drop there.
Michelle Obama
Really?
Craig Robinson
Aw.
Michelle Obama
Aren't you cute?
Sterling K. Brown
And that's why we stay cute.
Michelle Obama
I know when they say things like that, it's like, aw. Well, this has been fun.
Craig Robinson
Yes, this has been great.
Michelle Obama
You had a great time.
Misha Euceph
Oh, you, too.
Michelle Obama
Thank you. Thank you.
Sterling K. Brown
We really appreciate y'.
Misha Euceph
All. Yeah.
Sterling K. Brown
They're trying to keep us apart.
Michelle Obama
No more. It's a pleasure.
Ryan Michelle Bathe
Same, same.
Michelle Obama
Same. Sam.
Podcast Summary: IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson Episode: “Stop Being Scared of Fighting with Your Partner” with Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe Release Date: March 11, 2026
In this candid, laughter-filled episode, Michelle Obama and her brother, Craig Robinson, welcome Emmy-winning actor Sterling K. Brown and actress-producer Ryan Michelle Bathe to dissect the real dynamics of partnership and marriage. The conversation is rooted in real questions from listeners and the hosts’ own experiences, especially around navigating disagreements, sustaining intimacy, balancing personal aspirations, and the evolution of relationships over time. The guests share honest reflections from both their marriage and their collaborative podcast, “We Don’t Always Agree,” offering a rare, behind-the-scenes glimpse into the ongoing work that underpins long-term love.
“Your sphere of influence is immense and powerful and beautiful. Right. And so thank you. Like, truly, like, this is a real honor.” – Craig Robinson (06:11)
“If you don't let people know about the tough times, then I think they quit too soon… you can go through 10 bad years in a 30 year marriage and that's still great odds.”
—Michelle Obama (26:12)
“Sometimes without kids, some of the tough times wouldn't happen. It's great when it's just you two… the thing that makes that harder is when those beautiful, wonderful, lovely kids that we all want and love, they show up… now it's the first major joint project you have to do together. And that's when the hard starts.”
—Michelle Obama (27:46–28:16)
“At this stage in life… he would have to become a different person, like that. I would be like, who took over your body? And then we would be going to doctors and I'd probably call the FBI.”
—Michelle Obama (37:25)
“George Burns was asked this question about his long Hollywood marriage to Gracie, and he said, we never fell out of love at the same time… at least one of us is always pulling for us.”
—Ryan Michelle Bathe (49:54–50:48)
How can I balance my creative partner’s need for solitude and space during emotional lows with my own need for affection and intimacy without feeling selfish?
“At the very core, I would say, Jackie, it is not helpful for you to hold on to these feelings and not involve your partner in this challenge… It might be necessary for her to say, ‘Hey, you winning?… now, let's talk about last month. I didn't want to share this with you, but, you know, I don't even know if you notice, but when things aren't going well for you, you tend to show up in this way. It makes me feel this and feel that. Can we talk about that?’”
—Michelle Obama (71:21)
On Relationship Longevity
“The level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It’s earned over time. And it’s only gotten better. And I think that’s the point. It gets better and then if you quit too soon, you’ll rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in.”
—Michelle Obama (29:45)
On Supporting a Partner Through Growth
“There is one of the greatest gifts you can give to someone… is to say yes to them in their current set of circumstances and just believe that this is an individual that regardless if they have all the trappings that come along with what I want success… I still choose you. That is one of the most emboldening and wonderful feelings that you can ever have in life.”
—Craig Robinson (82:57)
On Surviving the “Dozens” (playful, sometimes sharp, family banter)
“Mom goes dark. She goes dark. Oh, Mom… Mom don’t know how to play.”
—Michelle Obama (23:56)
This episode blends humor, empathy, and candor, reminding listeners that “fighting” in a partnership isn’t something to avoid, but rather an opportunity for recalibration and deepening understanding—if approached with intention, respect, and some structure. Through stories, struggles, and laughter, the message is clear: the best relationships are those that withstand the storm, together.
For more relationship dilemmas or to submit your own question, visit imopod.com