Stop Being Scared of Fighting with Your Partner with Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe

Summary

Podcast Summary: IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson Episode: “Stop Being Scared of Fighting with Your Partner” with Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe Release Date: March 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid, laughter-filled episode, Michelle Obama and her brother, Craig Robinson, welcome Emmy-winning actor Sterling K. Brown and actress-producer Ryan Michelle Bathe to dissect the real dynamics of partnership and marriage. The conversation is rooted in real questions from listeners and the hosts’ own experiences, especially around navigating disagreements, sustaining intimacy, balancing personal aspirations, and the evolution of relationships over time. The guests share honest reflections from both their marriage and their collaborative podcast, “We Don’t Always Agree,” offering a rare, behind-the-scenes glimpse into the ongoing work that underpins long-term love.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Warm Introductions and Relationship to the Topic

• [02:24–06:35] The episode sets a comfortable, playful tone as Michelle and Craig introduce their guests, recounting acting credits and sterling reviews of current shows (especially “Paradise”). There's open admiration for the cultural work Sterling and Ryan do both on and off screen.
• Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe discuss the thrill and vulnerability of being on the Obama podcast, and the unique pressures of being public figures in a marriage.

“Your sphere of influence is immense and powerful and beautiful. Right. And so thank you. Like, truly, like, this is a real honor.” – Craig Robinson (06:11)

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The Journey of Marriage: Myths and Realities

The Importance of Staying Together Through Tough Times

• [24:46–27:04] Sterling and Ryan reflect on their willingness to talk candidly about struggles in their relationship, and how time and perspective matter.
• Michelle Obama emphasizes the importance of not romanticizing marriage; long-term commitment will inevitably include years—sometimes a decade—that are tough.

“If you don't let people know about the tough times, then I think they quit too soon… you can go through 10 bad years in a 30 year marriage and that's still great odds.”
—Michelle Obama (26:12)

The Impact of Children and Life’s Stages

• [27:32–33:41] The discussion delves into how having children introduces challenges that two people alone, no matter how strong, might not anticipate.
• Michelle Obama describes parenting as the “first major joint project” that tests a couple’s ability to work together under pressure.

“Sometimes without kids, some of the tough times wouldn't happen. It's great when it's just you two… the thing that makes that harder is when those beautiful, wonderful, lovely kids that we all want and love, they show up… now it's the first major joint project you have to do together. And that's when the hard starts.”
—Michelle Obama (27:46–28:16)

• Craig Robinson and Michelle Obama further explore life after raising kids, the “empty nest” period, and its new challenges and opportunities for reconnection.

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Conflict, Communication, and When to Seek Help

Healthy Fighting & Negotiating Deal Breakers

• [33:41–37:25] The group discusses the boundaries of what should be worked through versus what constitutes a deal breaker.
• Abuse (physical, verbal, psychological) is unequivocally out-of-bounds, but nearly everything else, with time and effort, can sometimes be renegotiated.

“At this stage in life… he would have to become a different person, like that. I would be like, who took over your body? And then we would be going to doctors and I'd probably call the FBI.”
—Michelle Obama (37:25)

• Growth and maturity are highlighted as reasons why what may have been a deal breaker early in a relationship might no longer be with trust and understanding.

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Partnership as Shared Growth

Navigating Career, Jealousy, and Validation

• [48:21–51:28] Sterling and Ryan open up about the complexity of being married actors—especially when one career is soaring while the other isn’t. They share strategies for maintaining individual validation and staying connected amidst career fluctuations.
• Famed quote:

  “George Burns was asked this question about his long Hollywood marriage to Gracie, and he said, we never fell out of love at the same time… at least one of us is always pulling for us.”
  —Ryan Michelle Bathe (49:54–50:48)

The Necessity and Value of Therapy

• The couple underscores turning to counseling as an ongoing tool to overcome difficult stretches and gain broader perspective, particularly around parenting and life phase changes.

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Listener Dilemma: Balancing Creative Needs and Intimacy

Jackie’s Question (from Chicago):

How can I balance my creative partner’s need for solitude and space during emotional lows with my own need for affection and intimacy without feeling selfish?

• [63:19–74:19] The panel relates deeply, with both Sterling and Craig identifying with facets of Jackie’s position. They stress:
  • The importance of clear and honest communication, especially during ‘up’ periods (when he’s not in a creative slump).
  • Establishing predictable structures or rituals (e.g., monthly date nights, scheduled check-ins) to maintain closeness even during quiet times.
  • Recognizing that making your needs known can be vulnerable—and sometimes scary—but is necessary for growth.

“At the very core, I would say, Jackie, it is not helpful for you to hold on to these feelings and not involve your partner in this challenge… It might be necessary for her to say, ‘Hey, you winning?… now, let's talk about last month. I didn't want to share this with you, but, you know, I don't even know if you notice, but when things aren't going well for you, you tend to show up in this way. It makes me feel this and feel that. Can we talk about that?’”
—Michelle Obama (71:21)

• They suggest distinguishing between acceptance and resignation, and identifying opportunities for both partners’ needs to be honored through negotiation.

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Vulnerability, Gender Roles, and the Emotional Work of Women

• [53:52–61:47] Michelle and Ryan dig into the sacrifices women make surrounding career and motherhood, and how those transitions can bring unexpected emotional challenges, particularly when child care resources change or phase transitions catch couples unprepared.
• The support system once offered by “the village” or extended family is discussed as something modern parents often have to recreate or hire, leading to deep feelings of vulnerability and loss when a beloved caregiver leaves.

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Notable, Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On Relationship Longevity
  “The level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It’s earned over time. And it’s only gotten better. And I think that’s the point. It gets better and then if you quit too soon, you’ll rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in.”
  —Michelle Obama (29:45)

• On Supporting a Partner Through Growth
  “There is one of the greatest gifts you can give to someone… is to say yes to them in their current set of circumstances and just believe that this is an individual that regardless if they have all the trappings that come along with what I want success… I still choose you. That is one of the most emboldening and wonderful feelings that you can ever have in life.”
  —Craig Robinson (82:57)

• On Surviving the “Dozens” (playful, sometimes sharp, family banter)
  “Mom goes dark. She goes dark. Oh, Mom… Mom don’t know how to play.”
  —Michelle Obama (23:56)

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Advice Roundup

• Don’t fear “the fight”—see conflict as a natural, essential part of intimacy and growth.
• Communicate needs, even when vulnerable, and don’t expect partners to be mind-readers.
• Structure, therapy, and planning can buffer predictable rough patches.
• Sustaining marriage is less about finding a soulmate and more about building resilience together, especially across life’s phases and when outside challenges (like work or parenting) shift the landscape.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Episode setup/cultural context: 00:00–06:37
• Sterling & Ryan on their podcast & marriage: 12:21–24:46
• Parenting and relationship evolution: 27:32–33:41
• Deal breakers and what’s forgivable: 33:41–37:25
• Listener question, balancing needs: 63:12–74:19
• Women, parenting, and the loss of “the village” support: 53:52–61:47
• Wrap up/love & support/emboldening your partner: 82:57–84:17

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Closing Thoughts

This episode blends humor, empathy, and candor, reminding listeners that “fighting” in a partnership isn’t something to avoid, but rather an opportunity for recalibration and deepening understanding—if approached with intention, respect, and some structure. Through stories, struggles, and laughter, the message is clear: the best relationships are those that withstand the storm, together.

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For more relationship dilemmas or to submit your own question, visit imopod.com

Transcript

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, may I ask you a

[Craig Robinson]

question that would probably be cut out of the podcast?

[Misha Euceph]

Oh, yes, you can.

[Michelle Obama]

Craig is like, please.

[Sterling K. Brown]

He got his idea.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, you can.

[Craig Robinson]

To get real for a second, because I think Ryan and I had this conversation before, too. If kids were not a part of the equation in terms of, like, do you think that some of the tough times may have led to a separation that didn't?

[Michelle Obama]

That's a good question. Um, no. No, no, no.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Here's.

[Michelle Obama]

This episode is brought to you by shift.

[Misha Euceph]

Hey, little girl.

[Michelle Obama]

Hi, Craig. Craigie.

[Misha Euceph]

Craig, how are you?

[Michelle Obama]

I'm doing pretty good. Yeah.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Once again, still enjoying our new IMO set.

[Misha Euceph]

I know.

[Michelle Obama]

Feeling pretty professional here in our new studios.

[Misha Euceph]

It's great. It's great and comfortable. Really comfortable.

[Michelle Obama]

It is.

[Misha Euceph]

I mean, the offices look great and they're comfortable and the studio is comfortable. I mean, it's just. It's incredible. And we're not even where we're gonna be.

[Michelle Obama]

No, this is.

[Misha Euceph]

We still got a little more to do.

[Michelle Obama]

This is just the beginning. Just the beginning. Speaking of comfort, where are you staying? This.

[Misha Euceph]

I'm staying in an Airbnb, once again, here. And really in a nice place that's about 20 minutes away. And listen to this. I had such a good customer service experience.

[Michelle Obama]

Tell me more.

[Misha Euceph]

So, you know, we went to dinner, we had a family get together.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Misha Euceph]

We went out last night and Aaron and I, my 13 year old, we get back to the Airbnb and the lock is one of these, you know, you gotta figure out what the code is. And the numbers aren't always the same. And I'm like, I mess it up and we lock ourselves out.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Misha Euceph]

Locked ourselves out. Called the host.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh.

[Misha Euceph]

And he was like, oh, just gimme a minute. And he hit a few buttons and the door opened and we were able to get in as. As I was about to panic that we were going to be locked out for the night. Really good experience.

[Michelle Obama]

That's really good.

[Misha Euceph]

Really good customer experience. So.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, I'm glad you're. You're. You're. You're comfortable that Airbnb is still hooking you up.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah, yeah. They're right along with us. A great partnership. So, you know, we're enjoying it and really appreciate it.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, I am excited as always for today's guests.

[Misha Euceph]

And as folks can see, we've got two chairs here. So before we bring out Sterling, Sterling K. Brown and Ryan Michelle Bathe, I want to do a little bit of an intro for our newfound Friends here so. Well, not so newfound because you've met Sterling before, but we go way back. Sterling is an Academy Award nominee and a three time Emmy award winning actor. He currently.

[Sterling K. Brown]

That's bad.

[Misha Euceph]

That's some tough stuff for a brother. You know, he currently stars and executive produces the hit Hulu series Paradise. And let me go on record by saying, you know me, if it's not a sports thing, I'm probably not gonna try and sit and binge watch it, right?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, you're pretty limited in that way,

[Misha Euceph]

let me tell you. So in preparation for this, you know what I try and do? I try and watch a.

[Michelle Obama]

You hadn't been watching Paradise.

[Misha Euceph]

I have not been watching paradise. But let me tell you the story. I'm watching it.

[Michelle Obama]

What a stooge.

[Misha Euceph]

So as part of the research, I start to watch it and I'm watching it and I'm like, huh, okay. And I get to the end of the first, the first episode and I was like, all right, let me just real quickly watch the second one.

[Michelle Obama]

Here it is.

[Misha Euceph]

And then it was like, let me just watch the third one. And then I look up and I was supposed to pick Austin up from school.

[Michelle Obama]

I left the babies. I was like, oh, Jesus, haven't eaten yet. No, paradise will do that. It'll mess you up, mess your life up.

[Misha Euceph]

You won't worry about that.

[Michelle Obama]

And it doesn't.

[Sterling K. Brown]

It just like sucks you in.

[Misha Euceph]

Just sucks you right in and you

[Michelle Obama]

can't let go and you mad at everybody.

[Misha Euceph]

And you know me, I'm a real snob. Cause I was watching the first episode, I was like, well, this is just your run of the mill, so and so. And then it got right to the end and I was like, oh, okay.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, this is different. Okay, yes, okay, all right.

[Misha Euceph]

But I digress.

[Michelle Obama]

I digress.

[Misha Euceph]

Woo. And Sterling has also starred in an executive producer. I should be calling him Mr. EP when he comes out here. The acclaimed Hulu limited series Washington Black. He is also known for his roles in this Is Us American Fiction and the People vs. O.J. simpson, American Crime Story. Now, Ryan Michele Bathe recently led the NBC drama series the Endgame and the film Boy in the Wall.

[Michelle Obama]

It's My girl.

[Misha Euceph]

She previously starred in BET's First Wives Club and CBS's All Rise along with her husband Sterling K. Brown.

[Michelle Obama]

Two actors in the family.

[Misha Euceph]

Can you imagine? Two actors.

[Michelle Obama]

We're gonna find out what that's like.

[Misha Euceph]

Bethy hosts and produces the award winning podcast We Don't Always Agree with her husband, Sterling Teddy Brown.

[Michelle Obama]

That's Brave.

[Misha Euceph]

That is brave. And I've been listening. They got me listening to this now.

[Michelle Obama]

I know, right?

[Misha Euceph]

They're all in my feed here.

[Michelle Obama]

I know, right?

[Misha Euceph]

Sterling and Ryan, please come out.

[Michelle Obama]

Come on. Right. Because we need to. We need to talk through this. And.

[Misha Euceph]

And we gotta give. We gotta give Sterling a little bit more time to come out because he is injured.

[Michelle Obama]

Hey, guys. Hey, guys. We'll let you get settled.

[Craig Robinson]

Sure, sure.

[Misha Euceph]

Oh, man. Are you okay?

[Michelle Obama]

First of all, you comfortable?

[Misha Euceph]

You comfortable?

[Michelle Obama]

You need a pillow, you know, can we get you some?

[Craig Robinson]

I'm happy to be here. It's a true honor to be in you all's presence.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, you're nice to see we're following in your footsteps. The podcast vets.

[Craig Robinson]

My wife was very nervous. She went through how many 50, 11 outfits.

[Michelle Obama]

Why you telling on her?

[Craig Robinson]

Well, because this is how important you all are to us, to the culture. What you mean to everybody. Like, you had. Your sphere of influence is immense and powerful and beautiful. Right. And so thank you. Like, truly, like, this is a real honor.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Sterling K. Brown]

It's hard for me not to be, like, climbing your walls right now and just be like, so this is very good.

[Michelle Obama]

Acting like you're doing great.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I'm right.

[Michelle Obama]

You are composed. You're beautiful. Thank you. This is gonna be fun. This is family.

[Misha Euceph]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Because we already know all your business.

[Misha Euceph]

You guys are agreeing right now.

[Craig Robinson]

Really?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Look at that.

[Michelle Obama]

You're agreeing on being excited to be here.

[Misha Euceph]

Let's hear how Sterling

[Craig Robinson]

finished shooting season two of paradise.

[Michelle Obama]

Thank God it didn't interrupt that.

[Craig Robinson]

My youngest son is a basketball player, and so his coach invited me to play. Like, in a coach's game.

[Michelle Obama]

It all begins with basketball with a black man in a Brooklyn with a torn Achille. It all begins with. And there was a battle. Basketball wins basketball game.

[Misha Euceph]

Now, see, if you had said we were out there playing golf or something,

[Michelle Obama]

she would have been like, it never happens there.

[Craig Robinson]

It doesn't.

[Michelle Obama]

But she's right on the basketball court.

[Craig Robinson]

The sports that it happens the most, because I've done two ACLs, and now this Achilles situation. The ones I hear, basketball, skiing, soccer, tennis. Now I hear, like, the pickleball people now.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Pickleball.

[Michelle Obama]

Some chiropractors say, Rich.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yeah, yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

But I was making a move to the left, like, an innocuous step. Felt like somebody stomped on the back of my heel with the spike. And I started yelling. I was like, hey, man, who stepped on my foot? And they like, what you talking about, man? I was like, hey, just apologize for stepping on My foot. And we'll be cool. Keep the game going. You know what I'm saying? Like, just keep it going. Just apologize. And they were like, bro, nobody.

[Misha Euceph]

Nobody was near you.

[Craig Robinson]

It's that moment when you're like, you know what happened? You're like, man.

[Misha Euceph]

Cause you've heard that story.

[Craig Robinson]

You hear this story over and over again. I went to stand up and then I was like, nope. And I scooched my booty off of the court. My team won.

[Michelle Obama]

I stayed it in, like, because that.

[Craig Robinson]

It was important.

[Michelle Obama]

It was an important part of the story.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And you're like, you know that urgent

[Michelle Obama]

care place you were talking about the other day?

[Sterling K. Brown]

It's like, Sunday.

[Michelle Obama]

So what lesson have we learned from this experience?

[Craig Robinson]

Sterling, this is interesting. We had this conversation last night where my wife was asking me, are you still going to play?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Mm.

[Michelle Obama]

The. The ultimate wife question after a dumb ass injury. There you go.

[Craig Robinson]

So. So this is it, honey.

[Michelle Obama]

Are we still doing this?

[Craig Robinson]

This is so. This is what I reiterated, Coach. You let me know how you feel about this, okay? I'm a man of a certain age, right? I'll be. I'll be 50 next birthday.

[Michelle Obama]

Baby.

[Craig Robinson]

Baby. A total baby. Right. Sometimes when you talk to people that have given it up, my experience is there's a pervasive mentality of, like, I've gotten too old to do xyz. I don't like the idea of getting older. Means that I've gotten old. So while I know I have to amend my game, I may have to do set shots. I may have to take it a little bit easier on defense. I don't like the idea of giving something up because I think that that is a pervasive sort of mentality that I don't want to invade the rest of my life.

[Misha Euceph]

I like it.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Misha Euceph]

Does that make sense?

[Craig Robinson]

Like, I'm not trying to be stubborn.

[Michelle Obama]

No, it does. Yes. So how are we about stretching?

[Craig Robinson]

Very good.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

I stretch.

[Michelle Obama]

My education part here is like, even more stretching.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes, ma'.

[Michelle Obama]

Am. The older we get, the more stretching. What are you laughing about?

[Misha Euceph]

I promise we're going to talk about we.

[Craig Robinson]

But I appreciate.

[Misha Euceph]

But I will tell you.

[Michelle Obama]

No, these are the things I will

[Misha Euceph]

tell your thought process about stopping.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, no, it's a good one. It's a good one.

[Misha Euceph]

Is not faulty. You want to play as long as your body allows you to. And there are masters leagues for guys who are my age still playing. You can play competitively. As competitively as you like or as calmly as you like, even if you're just playing three on three.

[Craig Robinson]

Sure.

[Misha Euceph]

But what I want to tell my sister, there is a finite number of games in everybody's body. And when you get to yours, you have an Achilles tear. Some people will get it at 49 and some people won't get it.

[Craig Robinson]

Right.

[Misha Euceph]

You cannot prevent what happened to Sterling stretching or no stretching.

[Craig Robinson]

Right.

[Misha Euceph]

I'm sure your doctor told you that.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, no, it's just one of those things.

[Misha Euceph]

Stretching is really good for you.

[Craig Robinson]

Stretching is important.

[Misha Euceph]

And also stretching is really good for you.

[Michelle Obama]

Shut up, boys.

[Craig Robinson]

I'll say this too, that, like, I've been making this sort of adjustment in terms of how I run from landing on the heel to trying to land mid foot. And I also think that there's something about the tennis shoes that we wear that don't allow the strength of the foot muscles to be strong enough to necessarily support stuff. So I think my foot wasn't strong enough to support what I wanted to do in terms of. And I had to start wearing a thinner sole shoe. So as I do my recovery, I'll try to work with thinner. So like, when Ry works out, she works out barefooted. And I see like every time I do a little bit of the barefoot workout, I'm like, oh, this hits different, you know, Cause you're balance and the little foot muscles are trying to work different. And I think I need that as I get back.

[Sterling K. Brown]

So I'm a very small home gym. I'm not at a gym barefoot. Because that's. That's nasty. Thank you to Xander.

[Michelle Obama]

Like, I don't want to say nasty. Can I say nasty?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yes. Nasty. Yeah. So, but we have our little home thing and. And I started doing that for that same reason. Cause somebody was like, oh, it's about toe strength. And I was like, well, I don't know how to strengthen a toe, but

[Michelle Obama]

it's like, you gotta use them.

[Craig Robinson]

I pull on em sometime. I pull on their toes.

[Sterling K. Brown]

God.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay, well, then that gets us to My marriage.

[Craig Robinson]

Bed is under five.

[Misha Euceph]

Let's go.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Oh, my word. He's doing everything he can to embarrass me. I'm just telling you now. I'm just telling you now.

[Michelle Obama]

We love it. We love it. So tell us about the podcast. Let's start there.

[Misha Euceph]

How did this come about?

[Michelle Obama]

And how's it going at home after the podcast?

[Craig Robinson]

Ooh, this is. This is good. I like that. I'll take the second question. You take the first one.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Sterling K. Brown]

So the first. It's weird how it came about. It came about because I really Thought to myself, there have to be people out there on the right. That I. This was before. Yes, it's like before. Before I said, there have to be sane people I can talk to. I used to follow, like, David French and a few other people I even Googled. It was actually at the. When President Obama was saying, don't argue with the trolls in the basement. Like, try to have face to face conversations. And at the time, I was like, I'm gonna take that mantle and change

[Michelle Obama]

my country and I'm gonna start with.

[Sterling K. Brown]

So I was like, there's gotta be somebody. I wasn't able to find anybody necessarily and looked and looked, but I did, I did, I did look.

[Michelle Obama]

I did look.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I couldn't find nobody.

[Craig Robinson]

Did this begin with, like, chicks on the right?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Is that I wasn't gonna give them? Yes, it was chicks on the right.

[Michelle Obama]

I did it.

[Misha Euceph]

I found chicks on the right.

[Sterling K. Brown]

There was chicks on the right. And that's who I found initially. But then they kind of veered more and more right. I was like, you know, so. And I even reached out to them, like email, because I was like, there's got. This has to be able. We have to be able to have these conversations. And I was just convinced and I could not find it. But I was like, how do we have conversations about things we don't agree on, even while agreeing on our basic

[Craig Robinson]

humanity, without them sort of devolving into argumentation, but still staying in the spirit of, like, there's a give and take. There's a conversation that's not like, sort of antagonistic, but like, all right.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And a real disagreement, like a real. Like, I stand on this side of a thing and you stand on this side of a thing. But it turned out the only person that I could have those was my husband.

[Michelle Obama]

Was my husband. And some people can't have it with their partner. So, yeah, they called husbands. I got that. I got that.

[Sterling K. Brown]

But we've known each other for so long that I think we've. And we're so. We came up with such similarities. We were born in the same hospital, both from St. Louis. We were both, you know, very Born to very religious families, you know, very close to our grandmothers. But then there were so many things within that that were so polar opposite that we've decided over the years that we can't. Obviously, we can't change each other. But what we can change is. But what we can do is learn to sort of live a little bit better with those disagreements. And so we were just standing around and you know, it was the strike.

[Craig Robinson]

We were in the middle of the strike, and Brad was also looking for the actor strike, a creative outlet that would feel good. And I've always been sort of reticent to work together because I've seen more

[Sterling K. Brown]

than reticent, more than reticent, more than reticence. Sterling, you've been very resistant.

[Craig Robinson]

It just makes the heart grow fond, you know, it's nice to go off to work and come home and be like, how was your day? Oh, this was my day.

[Sterling K. Brown]

That's not what you said.

[Michelle Obama]

All right, Ryan, what's your version of that?

[Sterling K. Brown]

You said, I don't want you annoying me at work.

[Michelle Obama]

Do you remember that? Sterling, do you remember those words? This sounds right. Oh, man.

[Craig Robinson]

It sounds right. But not like I want to be.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Not in a bad way.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, no, not in a bad way. It's like, you should have your space and I should have mine. That's what I'm talking about.

[Craig Robinson]

You understand?

[Michelle Obama]

Madam First Ladies, my word.

[Misha Euceph]

This segment, sponsored by Shipt, is all about the comfort of knowing it's handled. You know, there's something really comforting about realizing you don't have to carry everything on your own. When life is already full, having one less thing to worry about can make all the difference. It's that confidence and calm that come from knowing something that's taken care of without having to micromanage it. And I think it really showed up for me when I went from being an assistant coach to a head coach. You know, being an assistant coach, there's tons of things you gotta worry about, from recruiting to film exchange to setting up road trips, to planning practices and workouts. You're responsible for executing all of these things as an assistant coach, but as a head coach, you have to oversee all of these things. This was a big change for me. And what really made my job as a head coach easier was my executive assistant, who not only could anticipate things, but she also thought like I did and could prepare me for any situation, whether it was prepping for a media spot or meeting with alums, parents, recruits, or if I just needed to know someone's name in a room full of people who I didn't know. She can anticipate that and her reliability always made me feel like it's handled. I didn't have to worry. Misha, I'm curious. When you think back over your life, what are some of the moments that made you truly feel comfortable and calm?

[Michelle Obama]

Well, probably my eight years in the White House. For some of the same reasons that you described. You know, I was kind of like the head coach of the office of the First Lady. And with so much on your plate, you know, moving from one event to the next, I just didn't have the time or the capacity to worry about the details, whether we were gonna be on time, who I was talking to at any given moment, you know, what the weather was, how I was supposed to dress. So I had to rely on my team. And it was always a source of comfort to know that my team of people around me were on top of it, making sure that I had everything that I need so that when I entered a room, I could just be me.

[Misha Euceph]

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[Craig Robinson]

So but I also thought that the concept for the podcast was something that was really cool and it sort of fit with the dynamic of our interplay. Like, we are very Beatrice and Benedict, if you're familiar with Much Ado About Nothing. And just sort of like there's a verbal sparring that we have naturally, that is fun without crossing a line. Every once in a while, we both cross a line. And after the podcast we go, hey, listen, man, did you have to say. You're like, oh, I thought we were doing fun. And I'm like, no, come on.

[Michelle Obama]

That one hurts.

[Craig Robinson]

That one hurts. We have this thing. So we have this thing where, you know, we played a dozen. Me and my kids played a dozen.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, here he does.

[Craig Robinson]

And like, you know, they'll say, well,

[Misha Euceph]

wait, wait, let's explain. Explain the dozens. Cause we got listeners who like the dozens.

[Craig Robinson]

You know, just sort of dronin when you're like, sort of like making fun of each other, but a good spirited sort of thing where it's not meant to hurt, but just sort of gentle ribbing.

[Misha Euceph]

Gentle, gentle ribbing that sometimes gets serious.

[Craig Robinson]

Sometimes it gets serious.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Well, I didn't grow up with the gentle ribbing.

[Michelle Obama]

Let me tell the story.

[Misha Euceph]

Okay, go ahead, go ahead.

[Craig Robinson]

So I'm doing it with the fellas or whatnot. And I'll be like, they be like, you look old, man. I said, your mama old. And they're like, that's your wife. And I'm like, I don't care. But that's just messing with them, right? And so I said something to Ryan, just sort of messing with to get her to go back. And she goes, that's why your mama has als. And I was like, whoa, man, that's not right. That's not.

[Michelle Obama]

You ground me. You missed.

[Craig Robinson]

Did you not understand what was happening between the playfulness?

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, man, she just went right up. Wait a minute. Ryan is like, I bet this for her. Hang on, hang on.

[Misha Euceph]

Brian. Did she have any brothers growing up?

[Michelle Obama]

She's an only child.

[Craig Robinson]

That's why she cut.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I do have an older sister, but

[Michelle Obama]

I did not grow up with an older sister.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And I did have a cousin.

[Michelle Obama]

Isn't this the game?

[Craig Robinson]

Look, me and the boys, me and the boys all looked at each other.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm like, aw.

[Sterling K. Brown]

It didn't quite sit down quite like that.

[Misha Euceph]

To the point of winning, I mean.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Well, yeah, that did happen. I, I, I, I.

[Michelle Obama]

The point is to win the argument. It's like, I know what will make to take you to your knees. So, Brian, what was your version of that approach?

[Sterling K. Brown]

My version was that we back and forth and like, I had Run out of things to say. And then I did. I did reach for that.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, it did. It's not. It's not better. Oh. Oh, sweetie.

[Craig Robinson]

I thought.

[Michelle Obama]

I thought you were, like. You got a really bad thing to say.

[Misha Euceph]

Oh, my goodness.

[Michelle Obama]

And I didn't want to stop.

[Misha Euceph]

That's great.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yeah, that's.

[Misha Euceph]

That's how you end that argument.

[Michelle Obama]

I did not know how to do it. Everybody go home. Everybody go wipe your tears.

[Ryan Michelle Bathe]

I know.

[Craig Robinson]

But getting back to.

[Misha Euceph]

Damn it, you're. The kids were in the room.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, yeah. We were even better.

[Craig Robinson]

All doing it with each other. You know what I'm saying? Those dudes start chopping.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Well, no, they're just like, oh, you

[Michelle Obama]

know, we can't play with mom. Mom goes dark. She goes dark. Oh, Mom. You know, mom don't know how to play. And Brian got out the shovel. She got out the shovel. Oh, man. That's a good one.

[Misha Euceph]

This is great.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, man.

[Craig Robinson]

So I said, we have this dynamic, and I also would say that because we've known each other since 18, we'll be celebrating 20 years of marriage in March. There are things at this point in time in our life that we can talk about that we probably couldn't have talked about earlier in the marriage without it feeling like we were reliving it. We can recount it now without reliving. So it was the right time.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yeah. And like, I think you mentioned this on the pod, your podcast, where it's like, you want to sort of give a vulnerable and real portrait of something that, you know, we can't ignore the fact.

[Misha Euceph]

Oh, goals.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Oh, look at them.

[Michelle Obama]

Da, da.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And it's like, you see a certain thing. But it did feel like there was a responsibility there somewhere that we were like, okay, but we also want people to know what this really is. You know, it takes work. And we could really talk about, you know, the ways in which we struggled and the ways in which we didn't struggle and the things that, you know, came easy to us and why. And the things that came difficult to us and why. So that people really didn't, you know, really don't think that it's just a. I woke up, found my soulmate, and every day is just.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, that's right. That's right. Because don't you find that couples quit too soon? And we've seen this in young people now everybody's young, right to us. But new couples. And part of the reason why I talk about it being hard is not because I don't love my husband. And we have a wonderful relationship. We've been married 30 plus years. Something works, right? But if you don't let people know about the tough times, then I think they quit to.

[Craig Robinson]

They think that, oh, sometimes you're in that. I guess it didn't work.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right, it didn't work. And then you quit too soon.

[Craig Robinson]

Sure.

[Michelle Obama]

And that's why I say things like, you can go through 10 years, bad years, right. In a 30 year marriage, and that's still great odds. It's not a bad, you know, and every time I say it, people are like, oh, Lord, I can't do 10. But if you were to play the odds of like, if, if you could have 10% of heart for 90% of wonderful, you would take that every. And that's really the point. The point is that in any long relationship, there are gonna be years, months, hours, long periods of time. If you add it all up, where things just don't feel right, you don't quit on it. You know, sometimes that means you dig deeper. And if you don't dig deeper, you miss all the stuff on the end, you know?

[Craig Robinson]

May I ask you a question that Rob you cut out of the podcast? No.

[Misha Euceph]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay, please.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes, you can to get real for a second, because I think Ryan and I had this conversation before too, in terms of the ups and downs, trials and tribal triv. I'm missing it. But you know what I'm talking about. If kids were not a part of the equation in terms of like, do you think that some of the tough times may have led to a separation that didn't?

[Michelle Obama]

That's a good question. No, no, no, no. I'd like to think not. Here's what I think. Sometimes without kids, some of the tough times wouldn't happen. Right?

[Craig Robinson]

Facts.

[Michelle Obama]

And this is why I say, look, it's great when it's just YouTube, you know, and because there really isn't challenges with division of labor because everybody can be their own individual people. You go off, do your movie.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yay.

[Misha Euceph]

Yay.

[Michelle Obama]

We have our separate lives and then it's romantic, we get back together. The thing that makes that harder is when those beautiful, wonderful, lovely kids that we all want and love, they show up.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes, ma'.

[Misha Euceph]

Am.

[Michelle Obama]

With their own agendas, you know, with their own needs. And now it's the first major joint project that you have to do together. And that's when the hard starts, you know. So I think a lot of our hard was because of the kids who we love deeply, very much so. But I think without it without them. You know, a lot of the hard things don't come up, right? Cause you could. You can go to the gym all you want when there are no diapers to be changed. Thank you. You know, you could do whatever you want. Who's driving? Do you know how the Michelle's have been talking? Do you know how to make a dental appointment? Do you know where they go to the doctor? Do you know their doctor's name?

[Misha Euceph]

You started it.

[Craig Robinson]

So don't, you know, you chime in, cringe, right? What do you got to say to her?

[Misha Euceph]

I will say that, see, I've been married twice.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Misha Euceph]

And hopefully that'll only be twice.

[Michelle Obama]

Don't say hopefully.

[Craig Robinson]

I got you definitely knocking on the woods.

[Michelle Obama]

Say hopefully.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah, no, it will, it will be. But I will say the difference between the first and the second was that because the first marriage didn't work out, the second marriage, I really intentionally talked about ground rules before getting married.

[Craig Robinson]

That's good.

[Michelle Obama]

I mean, look, athletes devote careers to a jump shot, shoot shot after shot. Years and years and years and years. You have one bad argument, you have one bad year in a marriage, I'm done and you're done. Or you have three bad years and you're done. And look, the level of muscle that Barack and I have in our marriage is earned. It's earned over time. And it's only gotten better. And I think that's the point. It gets better and then if you quit too soon, you'll rob yourself of the success of the better, the work that goes in. And We've been married 30 years. We're healthy people. We could be married for another 30 years. That's a long time. And it could be 30 years of absolute bliss, you know, because we've done the work, we've gotten over the hump. Our kids are grown, they're out. We're looking at each other like, hey, remember you. I'm not mad about anything. Cause I don't need you to do anything for me.

[Craig Robinson]

You guys are ahead of us. I want to ask these questions. I have a question for you. You guys are actually on our podcast right now. Every once in a while we have these moments about empty nesting and the joint venture that you're talking about and how much time and resource that you spend on these both two people, right? And then the idea of what happens when that project is over and have you neglected the time that you need to pour into one another because you've been pouring into these two beautiful people. Like, did you look at each Other like, oh, man, now we gotta do this again. Or do you feel like you prepared yourselves knowing that the nest was about to be empty and be like, all right, Barack, all right, like, how we gon. We need to make sure that we are straight in this moment.

[Michelle Obama]

I think we're still developing that part of ourselves. Right. I mean, our youngest, well, she went to college. She's been out for five years. Right. My math is always graduated from college. Five years left. When I say leave, left for college.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Okay, Right.

[Michelle Obama]

Because that's the beginning of the leaving. Like, you packed your bags and you're not gonna be living here for nine months. That's a good one for sure. It's a good start, right?

[Craig Robinson]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

And that's.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You might go in the suitcase. Two things might.

[Michelle Obama]

When you get there. Cause you haven't even gotten through the teen years. No. You know, you're there.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Lord have Merc.

[Michelle Obama]

Right?

[Craig Robinson]

We have. The 14 year old is beginning.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, they just, you know, you'll be ready when it's time.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

That was a knowing.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, you're gonna be ready. You're gonna be ready. But I think it's a new phase for us, which takes time.

[Craig Robinson]

Sure.

[Michelle Obama]

It's gonna take like we're in a new phase of life. My husband did the hardest job. He reached the top of the thing you could do. Now he's got work to do, individual work to figure out where am I gonna be? What do I wanna say? Who do I wanna be? I'm doing the same thing.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Right.

[Michelle Obama]

That's a whole new assignment that you have to factor in to the newness of now we're doing this. We're back to just me and him. It takes time is all I'm saying. All of these new stages take time for adjustment. When you guys had when the boys were infants, you know, when one was just coming out of diapers, and that's a whole new phase. When, you know, you move from everybody's in a crib to people are walking around, like that can change the whole nature of your interaction with your partner. It takes time. So we think this stuff, this is like really hard, complicated stuff that you are negotiating with another person. You know, All I'm saying is, like, it all takes time. And to think that there aren't gonna be bumps along the way of each of those phases. Yeah, right.

[Craig Robinson]

This is. Okay, wait, so this is interesting. I love this conversation. This is wonderful. This is wonderful. Michelle, thank you so much. So in my mind, like, the question is for the listener in terms of Navigating tough times and Craig being on a second marriage. Now, when do tough times become a step too far? What is the deal breaker like? Ryan and I say for the most part is like, there are no deal breakers for us. There are just things that we have to negotiate. There are things that we figure out. I say a rather crude thing about if you did this very bad thing to me, Sterling, do you want me to say it?

[Sterling K. Brown]

No, I do not.

[Craig Robinson]

Would I embarrass you?

[Michelle Obama]

Say it.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Embarrass me.

[Michelle Obama]

We don't want to embarrass, and I

[Craig Robinson]

won't go into it.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Sterling K. Brown]

It is funny, but it's not.

[Craig Robinson]

It's funny, but it's not for the literary.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

But I was like, if you did this awful thing to me, that would be the deal breaker. Right. And it's really something that she would never do.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay. Yes.

[Misha Euceph]

Right now I can imagine have an idea of what you're talking about.

[Craig Robinson]

But my question is then, in terms of navigating these difficult times, right, for people who are also in the midst of difficult times, who are probably asking themselves, what. What's the difficulty? That's too much. Obviously, if there's anything that's physical, that's transpiring inside of a relationship, don't stay in some sort of abuse. Well, and I would say even verbal, psychological, physical, et cetera. Abuse is not something that is meant to be tolerated. Outside of that, I'm curious, do you feel like there are deal breakers or things that you feel like people should walk away from or everything is meant to just find your way through?

[Misha Euceph]

I'll start, please, because I will say now, in my relationship with Kelly now, there are probably no deal breakers for me. She might have some, but there's probably nothing for me. We could probably work through anything that I could think of, aside from your scatological. But I think we can make our way through it. But I wouldn't have said that when we first got together. Okay. That's years of work. That's years of talk. That's years of both going through our own difficulties and coming out of it, and together having difficulties and coming out of it. And you just. You emerge at a different level of understanding. A higher being, a higher power. Just that at a higher level of understanding. That's how I feel. I mean, it would really have to be something that I couldn't have seen coming that was so bad. But then I would be so worried that what was I in this relationship to make you want to do something that bad. I got to take the responsibility of it. So that's just my own growth over the years.

[Craig Robinson]

I love that. I Love that.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. 30 plus years in. I mean, like, he's me. We're so intertwined at this stage in life. Our experiences, our challenges, our family are like, he would have to become a different person like that. I would be like, who took over your body? And then we would be going to doctors and I would probably call the FBI, you know, I mean, because I'd have to be like, something happened to my husband. It's not the same person. And then I'd be worried, like, what is going on?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Right.

[Misha Euceph]

Nope.

[Craig Robinson]

I felt that.

[Misha Euceph]

Raise your hand if you've been putting off a checkup, a dental cleaning, any kind of doctor's appointment. Yeah, my hand's up too. I'll tell myself I'm fine and keep it moving, but we can't take care of business if we're not taking care of our health. This year, we're doing it differently. You know that feeling when you leave a doctor's office and think they really listened? That's what we're looking for. And you can find doctors like that on zocdoc. Zocdoc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. You can book in network appointments with more than 150,000 providers across all 50 states. Search by specialty or symptom, from primary care to dentistry to dermatology and more than 200 plus specialties. See verified patient reviews, check real time availability and click to book instantly. No phone tag. Appointments happen fast, typically within 24 to 72 hours even same day. I use this and you should, too. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com imo to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's zocdoc.com imo zocdoc.com imo thanks, Zocdoc, for sponsoring this message. This episode of Imo is brought to you by. Indeed. You know, I've been thinking a lot about careers lately, especially in a job market like this. One thing I've learned is that you really have to think outside the box when it comes to your path. Nothing about my own journey has been linear. I've made pivots, followed my curiosities, leaned into the strengths and skills I had at the time, and somehow all of that kept opening doors I never would have pictured for myself. And honestly, being willing to evolve made my whole Career feel more dynamic and rewarding. The roles I ended up loving weren't always the ones I initially imagined. They were the ones that aligned with who I was becoming. But let's be real. The process of finding those roles, it can feel like a second job. I remember stretches where searching, applying, waiting. It was exhausting. That's why I love what Indeed is doing with Career Scout. It's designed to make the whole process faster, easier, and a lot more intentional. Career Scout actually looks at your skills and interests and sources opportunities you might not have even realized were a fit. It's like having your own career coach, working behind the scenes, helping tailor your resume, matching you to roles that align with your strengths, even supporting you with interview prep. It takes something that can feel overwhelming and makes it manageable. And honestly, if I had Career Scout earlier in my career, it would have saved me so much time and helped me tap into my strengths more quickly. It's a game changer when you're ready for that next step. Indeed's mission is to empower people to use their skills to find better work. And Career Scout is their latest innovation to help you do that. The future of job searching is here, and it's called Indeed Career Scout. Try it today in the Indeed app. Knowing you guys origin story.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah, I think it's so different because Meesh didn't meet Barack until later.

[Craig Robinson]

Right.

[Misha Euceph]

I didn't meet my first wife until after and I didn't meet Kelly till way later. You guys knew each other freshman year. Freshman year and are still together. I wanna know how does that happen?

[Craig Robinson]

How does that happen? What do you have to say to that, Bert?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Well, I think because I always look at it like life kept throwing us back together, you know, and similar to, like, yeah, no, I'm good. Like, we would go away. We would purposefully go away, and life would just keep tossing us back. In the, say, our very first job, we were not speaking. We had just graduated from grad school. And I never forget.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Misha Euceph]

This was on your first episode. Did we talk about this on the first episode?

[Ryan Michelle Bathe]

I don't.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Did we.

[Craig Robinson]

Did we talk about under five on the Guiding Light?

[Sterling K. Brown]

It was under five on Guiding Light. And I remember where I was when they said you got the job, and I was so excited. It was your first job. I was in.

[Michelle Obama]

I was in one of those, like,

[Sterling K. Brown]

you know, those big stores on, like, 42nd. Like, you know, not H and M, but like, you know, V, I, M. Anyway, your jeans and sneakers.

[Michelle Obama]

I was in Vim.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Don't forget. Because I always wanted to go, you know, it's like. Cause it's a commercial. So I was in Vim and I was looking at stuff. And they were like, and you got the job.

[Michelle Obama]

I was like, oh, my God, yes,

[Sterling K. Brown]

I'm on my way.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm on my way.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Right? And they were like, and you got. Your other classmate is in. And I was like, who? And they said, sarah Suri is one of my dear, dear friends. I was like, yes, Sarah Suri and another classmate. I was like, oh. And they were like, sterling Brown. And I was like, they're like, hello. I was, oh, yeah, I'm here.

[Michelle Obama]

Yay.

[Sterling K. Brown]

We were not speaking, and we played a husband and wife.

[Craig Robinson]

That is correct.

[Sterling K. Brown]

In a Lamaze class.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes, ma'.

[Misha Euceph]

Am.

[Sterling K. Brown]

On Guiding Light.

[Craig Robinson]

For sure.

[Michelle Obama]

Why weren't you all speaking? What happened? Who did? What were you. Was it mad I'm not speaking, or you just weren't in touch? No, it was not.

[Misha Euceph]

Y' all were off the time they met.

[Michelle Obama]

It was. Who knows? I think she was the point.

[Craig Robinson]

Speaking to me.

[Sterling K. Brown]

No, you weren't speaking to me. Sirloin.

[Michelle Obama]

No, no.

[Craig Robinson]

Facts, facts. But what I'm saying is, like, we did our last show at nyu, which was Midsummer Night's Dream.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

And I see you come off stage. I'm like, yo, man, you just ripped that scene. I just want you to know it was really good. And you just walk.

[Misha Euceph]

That's.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Who asked you, Gene? Nobody asked.

[Misha Euceph]

You ghosted. Before there was a term ghosting.

[Michelle Obama]

You know what you did.

[Craig Robinson]

But after. After sustained neglect, I was like, all right, I'mma stop trying now. So we had stopped talking to each other. So we get on set to do this scene, and she. What happens is anytime she knows that I've pulled away, she purposefully is like, hey, Sterling, how are you? What's going on? Like, hey, what's going on, man? How you doing? It's good.

[Michelle Obama]

You see, to.

[Craig Robinson]

So we had to do this scene, and she's sitting in my lap. You know, she's pregnant, and I'm holding her up or whatnot. And the Lamaze instructor is going by, and she said, and, dads, you're gonna have to look after the mommies. You're gonna have to do this and that and give them sponge baths and everything like that. And the line goes. Ryan looks over her shoulder, and she looks at me, and she goes, sponge bats. And I look at her and I say all the time. Except when we do our line, she looks at me and she's like. She's touching me. And all this stuff. And I'm like, oh Lord, please stop touching me. And then she looks at me and she goes, sponge. And I looked directly in her forehead.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

And I said all the. He could have looked me in the eye.

[Misha Euceph]

You looked over and she could tell.

[Craig Robinson]

She could tell. The camera could not.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. And I'm doing this and you're trying to make it be.

[Craig Robinson]

That's my camera right there, Brown. Don't make it look real.

[Michelle Obama]

Uh huh, right. He's like, that's why I'm an actor, that's why I'm here.

[Craig Robinson]

Man, she's getting on my nerves.

[Misha Euceph]

Wait, now, now I want to digress, please, just for an acting thing, because you husband and wife, both actors.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Misha Euceph]

When does the discussion happen about each other doing makeout scenes with someone else?

[Craig Robinson]

It's a great discussion.

[Michelle Obama]

That's a very good question. The man wants to know.

[Misha Euceph]

Well, no, it's.

[Michelle Obama]

How do you know? I'm just kidding.

[Misha Euceph]

I think that's a question.

[Craig Robinson]

I think the public.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah, the public wants to know. I've never heard anyone ask that question. Because either people don't have an opportunity or they're just like, I'm not gonna bring it up.

[Craig Robinson]

It is acting. And what a lot of people don't realize, it's not as glamorous as you think it is. There's sweat and like people are coming to powder you. And you have to hit this right angle because the camera can't see something or what have you. And it's very sort of like choreographed or whatnot. And I always tell the bird, I was like, hey man, make em look like you know what's going on. Like, don't let them think that. Don't let them think that we ain't having a good time up in the streets, you know what I'm saying? Like we know how to get in there. So like, you know, don't go out

[Michelle Obama]

and act like you know what you're doing is what I'm trying to say.

[Misha Euceph]

Show em you got skills.

[Craig Robinson]

There's no real jealousy in that sort of arena there because like we both have said like to do it well. It's not about pretending as much as it is investing in the given circumstances so much that you are living the truth of that character in that time. So you gotta fall in love a little bit and you gotta be attracted a little. And that doesn't threaten anything that we have because we know where we sleep at night, we know who we've made our vows to, et cetera, et cetera. It just means I want you to act well, and hopefully you want me to act well and that we can. And sometimes. Here's the other thing. You can take some of the energy that you got on set and bring that home. And bring that home.

[Michelle Obama]

Bring it home, Birdie.

[Craig Robinson]

Bring that home. That's what I'm saying. Because a lot of people ask that question, how do you do that? How does that. It's my job. It's her job, and you do it.

[Michelle Obama]

Have you ever felt.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I just don't watch. She doesn't know this, but I just. When the scenes come up, I just close my eyes.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Like, I might get some ice cream.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I just don't want. I just don't. I don't want to fast forward. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

I just. I just don't watch. Yeah. I don't know if I could watch.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I don't even like watching myself, though.

[Craig Robinson]

She does.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You know what I mean? Especially in those particular. I don't like watching myself necessarily. I have to. Because I have to see what I've done wrong or what I did, you know, I have to see. But certain things. There are things on First Wives Club that I still haven't watched myself do. I was like, no, I don't need to do that. And for me, I think it's the only way that I can sort of do what you say in terms of living in that moment. I have to just kind of, like, take a deep breath, live in the moment, and then I really just have to let it go, and it has to stay gone for me. So I can't ruminate on the scene, and I can't ruminate on your scenes, and I just have to, you know, I just. I just don't watch.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, that makes me think, well, like, you guys didn't answer the question, really. It's like, how did. How have you worked through some of the tougher times in your marriage, and does one particular time stand out to you?

[Craig Robinson]

There are. So Craig was saying something earlier about, like, you know, two actors navigating the industry together. Right. And so there's something about. You're gonna have your own take on this, and that's fine. And I just ask that you let me finish my take first.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Sterling K. Brown]

We don't always agree.

[Michelle Obama]

Go ahead.

[Misha Euceph]

You don't always agree, and he is

[Craig Robinson]

preparing for you not to. I just ask that you allow me to finish my take first.

[Misha Euceph]

I love that.

[Craig Robinson]

Before you offer yours.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

Please and thank you.

[Misha Euceph]

Thank you.

[Craig Robinson]

Appreciate it. There is sometimes this feeling of, like, all right, when There is momentum happening in one person's career. You have a desire for momentum in your own career as well. And while you can say and truly believe that, like, we are doing very well right now, whether it's financially or otherwise, if the other person isn't experiencing something that is validating for them on a personal level, whatever's transpiring for you may feel very separate and distinct. And so I will say that there are times in which I'm like, how do I make sure that my wife feels included and acknowledged and appreciated, as there's a certain level of momentum transpiring in my life, and there's varying degrees of success in terms of us feeling connected in it and separate in it. So that's an ongoing thing that I'm navigating after you,

[Sterling K. Brown]

I would say, you know, George Burns was asked this question about his long Hollywood marriage to Gracie, and he said, we never fell out of love at the same time. And I can look back at our. And I really do believe that we've. I don't know that that's a deal that we've made or something that's just kind of sustained us, but I don't think we've ever fallen out. And even before we got married, I would say that when one pulled away, the other one was like.

[Michelle Obama]

And when.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You know what I mean? So I don't think we've ever decided at the same time. I'm done with you. And so I think that there is something that. That makes one of us, if not both of us, but at least one of us is always pulling for us.

[Craig Robinson]

I would agree with that.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And so I think that that's at the very, very core, at the very, very root of it, we believe in therapy. We very much believe in therapy. I think that that has given us an opportunity to kind of see the forest for the trees. Like, what you were talking about is, like, okay, you might have some bad news. Like, it's only been six months. Like, let's see what happens when the baby is walking. And then that's a whole nother corner, you know, literally and figurative, that you're gonna turn together. I also think that because we have the children.

[Craig Robinson]

We do have the children.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Again, you'd like to say that. Well, no, it's not. We're not just staying for the kids. You'd like to say that. But it is. We do know that there's something bigger now than just the both of us and whatever is going on at that moment. Yes, I can be very volatile, and I Can, you know, there was.

[Craig Robinson]

Say it again in the microphone.

[Michelle Obama]

No, I have not. I'm not joint.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I know, but like you asked things that you thought about when you were younger that you wouldn't put up with. Like there is definitely a 19 year old me that would have had the time of her life with a very dramatic. I'm catching this banging.

[Michelle Obama]

Like that would have been part of the fun. Right? Come find me, girl.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You going and girl, we gonna meet.

[Michelle Obama]

Where we gonna meet?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Like, you know, the whole. I think I did that when I was pregnant, when I was giving. Cause I gave birth at home. And I remember there was, you know, stuff flowing on, stuff blood on. I looked in my hand, I was like, it's bloody. And I put it on the wall and I was like, ah. And I screamed so that I could

[Michelle Obama]

have the bloody handwritten down.

[Craig Robinson]

Is that I do remember.

[Michelle Obama]

This is the only child drama, girl.

[Craig Robinson]

It's strong. Reach out. There you go. Me and you shall never part. There you go. Make it happen.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh my God, I love it. So you can think of some stuff?

[Sterling K. Brown]

I really can. I really can, ma'.

[Michelle Obama]

Am.

[Sterling K. Brown]

But I think that I have put a lot of that and said, okay, now, now, now you have. It's not just you and the dramatic moments and all of those things. There is something bigger that's calling you and it is those 30 years on the other side. It's the children and what we can provide and it's all of that. And it just feels bigger than just whatever that small moment is or even that big moment. That's not to say that there haven't been big moments, but I think that there's something bigger that calls us to fight for what we have.

[Craig Robinson]

I'm gonna go back and just combine the two things together because it feels like when things are difficult, if we feel as if we are in them together, they are way easier to endure versus when we feel as if we're separate in it. You know what I'm saying? Like that's, that's always like. That's probably the toughest times that we have when we feel like we're going through something as a couple, as a family and. Or individually and we don't feel like we're on the same page. Those are the times that are the most difficult, I would say.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Brian, I want to just check in with you on, you know, because you talked about the fact that you sacrificed your career to be there for your kids. You made some. You made some choices that, you know, that is the story of so many women out there, we can talk about being equal partners and so on and so forth, but we give birth, our bodies change. We are constantly adapting in ways that our partners, our male partners, do not have to do it. It's a part of it. And so we wind up saying, you can have it all, but not at the same time. Sometimes that's easier said than experienced.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Most of the time it's easier said. Right.

[Michelle Obama]

I'd love to hear more from you about how you felt through those moments. And, you know, how you're. I know you're still dealing in those moments. And how does that. How are you. How are you coping with that reality?

[Sterling K. Brown]

That is an excellent question.

[Craig Robinson]

Very good question.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yeah, you know, it's.

[Michelle Obama]

It.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Gosh, that's a really good question. Because when you first. I mean, you can see it. I mean, you're pregnant and everything. Everybody's like, oh, so excited for the both of you. And then you look down, I'm looking at you, you look. You know what I mean? And you're slowing down and you're changing and you're waddling and this, you know, like, wait a minute. How, like I. I'm already slower than. I had really bad hyperemesis, which is when you just, you know, you're sick, sick, sick. And, you know, and then not. Not sharing any of that.

[Michelle Obama]

He's going to the gym.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Going to the gym.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm gonna get a good workout in. And you're like, shut up.

[Craig Robinson]

That makes everybody mad. I see this now. This is a universal thing.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And then he tried to tell me, and the baby was brand new. He's in the gym. He's like, but I'm working out outside in the garage.

[Michelle Obama]

You're welcome.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Like, he really felt like he had given me this very magnanimous gift. And I was like, if I could get up from this couch and beat you into some, like, I would, you know. And again, it's. You're watching. And again you want to be. That's the pull, I think, that a lot of women don't realize. Women don't realize the kind of mother they're going to want to be until the baby shows up.

[Michelle Obama]

There you go.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And you have no idea. No idea. Some women decide whether it's breastfeeding, whether it's. I want to. Whatever it is, you don't know. It's an experiential thing. And when you. All those decisions are made very deeply in your core, and I don't want to say they're made on the fly, but they're made in these sort of like, just. The baby's here. That's the decision. And so you had all these plans, right? And everybody told you, girl, you gonna snap back, girl. All you have to do, remember, we read them. You just do the clans, girl. Do the cleanse, you know? And you're like, okay, well, I'll. And in your mind, you really believe that you're gonna just do this cleanse. You're gonna pop back, you're gonna put that baby in a little pouch, and you're just gonna.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, you just drop them off somewhere or have somebody else come in. You don't even know how you'll feel about that.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You don't know how you're gonna feel about that.

[Michelle Obama]

When you'll be ready for that.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You don't know how much it's gonna cost. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Ooh. Yes.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You don't know that. The woman that you wanna hire was given a signing bonus, but.

[Michelle Obama]

Signing bonus. I tell the story. When I. We did find a babysitter, she came to us at everything. I was back to work. I love this woman. She was a part of our family, loved the girls, and she just needed to make more money, and we couldn't pay her more money, and she left. And I still feel that her, like, I feel the. Like, you know, I was losing my real partner in this endeavor. Oh, I wouldn't have thought I would have felt that way about my babysitter. My she. You know?

[Sterling K. Brown]

I know.

[Michelle Obama]

And that sent me spinning. That one thing sent me spinning in a fit of deep desperation that I would have never thought.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Well, experience, I mean, and I. Having had that experience, I understood if I hadn't had kids, I'd be sitting here going, oh, that sounds like a lot.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like, are you sure?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Maybe you should. Is that ptsd?

[Michelle Obama]

But you have to.

[Sterling K. Brown]

To experience that, you know? Like, Zoila is. Zoyla Palacios is our girl. I call her my sister wife. You know, she.

[Michelle Obama]

And shout out to Zoila.

[Craig Robinson]

Zoylita.

[Michelle Obama]

Zoylita. Hey, girl. We love you. We do. We love our Zoilas in our lives.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And because you have that. You know, that what we grew up with, which that village, the grandparents, like, somebody. You know, my grandmother never left the house. Somebody was always dropping a child off at that woman's house. And my grandmother was, like, in her 70s and could barely. And I'm like, you gotta. Who's Tom Horizon?

[Michelle Obama]

She's like, I got him.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And nobody batted an eyelash. Didn't have a thing. And not narin. A socket in the house. You know, the little thingies.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Misha Euceph]

Nothing to protect them from inside.

[Michelle Obama]

And nobody was worrying about what strain of food they were eating. Whatever grandma gave you was totally fine.

[Sterling K. Brown]

She had some fat back and some sauce and a baby holding on to

[Michelle Obama]

some kind of bone. It's like, I think they should have meat again.

[Craig Robinson]

They'll be fine.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I know.

[Michelle Obama]

My question, right? You just knew your baby was loved and safe.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yeah. Cause my grandpa had, you know, and

[Michelle Obama]

those communities are gone.

[Sterling K. Brown]

We didn't have that. And we're some of the first people who don't have that. And so then we have to hire that and find that. And to your point, it's like losing a. It's not like it is losing a family member. It is losing a crucial part. And again, you don't know what you're going to feel and experience until you get there. And again, to your point about each season. So now I'm like, okay, well, it should be getting easier, right? Because they're older and. And I know a 14 year old and I'm like, oh, well, I'll just. Let me just. I'm a chauffeur, but I also am like, I clearly need to ride the bus with you. I clearly need to be in every class. I clearly need to be at Functional Girl. Well, he thinks he can. He told me once, he was like,

[Michelle Obama]

all I need to do is learn

[Sterling K. Brown]

how to use this toaster oven.

[Michelle Obama]

And then I've got it. Like, I've got it.

[Misha Euceph]

Like, I'm basically a man.

[Michelle Obama]

And I was like, you don't know the WI fi code.

[Misha Euceph]

All I need is a credit card and a driver's license. I can live on my own.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Please, sir.

[Craig Robinson]

He said, all I need you guys to do is take me where I need to go.

[Michelle Obama]

No, that's a big one. But for that, who's gonna pay him for school?

[Craig Robinson]

And he didn't even meet him. Please just leave me alone. Take me where I need to go.

[Sterling K. Brown]

He did ask me when I was. He was three. He said something.

[Misha Euceph]

He was.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Something was happening. He was three. And he was like, why you always in my business? Like, who.

[Michelle Obama]

Where did you come from?

[Craig Robinson]

That's Michael.

[Michelle Obama]

That's another thing.

[Sterling K. Brown]

The thing that you love about this man, you are going to see it in a child. Like, oh, Lord, I should have thought this through. But.

[Michelle Obama]

But every phase is different. And now you're, you know, just when you thought. Just when you think because you didn't

[Sterling K. Brown]

know, again, it's the experience of it. And it's like. And now you see, oh, this is how things can go left. Cause you think it's when they're little and you're just pouring in. You're pouring in. That's the other thing.

[Michelle Obama]

Don't you want those days back when they were so in your control and all you had to worry about them was falling and scraping a knee? And now they are in the world, this world.

[Craig Robinson]

It's a good conversation, you guys.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, you guys are good.

[Misha Euceph]

We just learning. We were learning from the experts.

[Craig Robinson]

No, I feel the same way. I feel like even in Rise approach and I feel you guys are similar is like we try to enter into everything with a level of curiosity. We're not experts on anything and just hoping to learn. Like, we're all in a process of evolving to become the best form of ourselves. I think in doing that, like, there is just sort of like, teach me. Like, I'll share a thought and then let's see how it all sort of reverberates in the. In the cipher.

[Misha Euceph]

What I love about doing this, aside from getting to spend time with my little sister on a regular basis, is that I learn something new in every conversation. And at this age, to come to work every day and feel like you're learning something new is inspirational.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.

[Michelle Obama]

We agree. We all agree.

[Misha Euceph]

Well, we have a question that we get from our watchers and listeners.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, this is good.

[Misha Euceph]

And this one is from our hometown, Jackie from Chicago.

[Craig Robinson]

Come on, Chateau.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Love Chicago.

[Ryan Michelle Bathe]

Hey, Michelle and Craig. Shout out from Chicago. I'm writing to seek your advice about my relationship with my husband of five years. We both teach at the college level and share a deep commitment to education and our students. And much of our connection is built on a love of learning and a belief in bettering ourselves and the world. However, our creative paths and temperaments are quite different. I work in substance abuse, social work, and my husband is a musician and visual artist with a strong creative drive. We each experience our work so differently. My husband tends to experience excited creative highs surrounding performances and exhibits, followed by times of withdrawal and low mood after he's done or between shows. In those times, he's focused on his classes and getting the next show off the ground. But he can seem quiet and distant at home. He kisses me good night, tells me he loves me, but doesn't initiate much conversation or interaction. Although I need some creativity with problem solving in my work, I'm not involved in the creative arts at all and don't necessarily experience the same emotional waves here's where I need your advice. I sometimes find myself hesitating to ask for intimacy or suggesting going out on a date when my husband is experiencing these moments of just needing to recharge by sitting together quietly watching tv. I worry if I ask for affection or conversation or intimacy during these phases, I'll sound selfish or insensitive. But if I don't speak up, I start to feel disconnected and dissatisfied. I want to be a supportive partner during his creative slumps, but I also need to feel seen and wanted. And I miss the closeness that comes from shared moments out or together in bed. How can I best balance his need for space and creative solitude with my own needs for intimacy, affection, and quality time? How do I show up as a good partner who values his mental health and well being without losing sight of what I want and need in our relationship? Thanks so much for all your great work.

[Craig Robinson]

Better tell Jackie to get out of my marriage.

[Misha Euceph]

Welcome to imo.

[Michelle Obama]

What?

[Craig Robinson]

Jacqueline? Cause here's the thing, and you'll probably say the same thing, possibly or not. I think I'm just.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Are you Jackie?

[Craig Robinson]

I think I'm Jackie.

[Michelle Obama]

Brian's like, I'm Jackie.

[Craig Robinson]

That's what I was about to say. That's why I was like, you may feel the same way, but she asked you guys, so you guys.

[Michelle Obama]

No, she's asking the table. She's asking the table.

[Craig Robinson]

I mean, I'll start on it because, like, I feel like we had a conversation kind of like this last night.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, wow. Tell us more. Are you okay? Ryan, we ready? Okay.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I wonder where it's going.

[Craig Robinson]

But it was about sort of, for me, understanding the nature between acceptance and resignation in terms of, like, this is what it is. Like, what to fight, to change and what to accept in its current status and be at peace with. And like, the difference between acceptance and resignation, as far as I can conceive of in this moment, is, is acceptance has a certain level of peace and resignation has a certain level of sorrow and sort of like, when to fight, when not to fight, when to yield, et cetera. So I can say this, and you step in, please, because I want a back and forth on this one, because it'll feel better.

[Misha Euceph]

Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

My experience of rai when she is working versus when she is not working is very different. And there is a level of just sort of like, like joy. And because there's a certain level of fulfillment from coming to do this because she's enjoying doing the thing that she's wanted to do, what she wants to do. Right. And. So we ride a wave sometimes. We ride a wave sometimes.

[Michelle Obama]

And do you feel closer when she's in that joy? Yeah. Okay.

[Craig Robinson]

Hands down. Hands down.

[Michelle Obama]

So the not working part you describe as. That's Brian's slump. Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

Mm. Agree. Disagree. I mean, you speak on it. Because I don't want to go too far. Yeah.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I'm back to Jackie.

[Craig Robinson]

Come on, now.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I was trying to.

[Michelle Obama]

Touche. As the children would say.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Is she talking about the times when her husband is not working at all on something creative, or is she talking about the low that comes from, like, coming off of stage? Right. Cause that's a real thing. Like, you come off of stage and you have this high from doing whatever it is, and then you come off and you're just buzzing. And then you kind of go into a slump either, like, immediately after. So I'm trying to discern. Is she talking about. He's had this incredible emotional high. He's come off stage and now he's home, and he's like, ugh, like, feeling the after effects of that, and that's when she wants to sort of step in. Or is it. He's been on a creative journey, had a wonderful time, and then he's in between creative journeys. So I'm.

[Michelle Obama]

I read it as the latter.

[Sterling K. Brown]

The latter.

[Michelle Obama]

But that's how I inter. That's a good question. That's how I interpreted it, because it sounds like, you know, those periods, you know. Cause the after stage I need a day is a different emotional. Would create a different emotional instability for Jackie than I haven't. I'm not in my element for a year or months. Right. And that could lead to the kind of disconnection that she's talking about. So I interpret it as. These are. You know, there are periods in a creative person when things aren't coming, things aren't gelling. And he seems. Jackie's partner seems to get really low and disconnected. That's how I'm reading it.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

Okay.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Thank you for that clarification.

[Michelle Obama]

This is.

[Sterling K. Brown]

All right. This is a very difficult question. You know, I think. I think that there has to be. Well, you know, we already said that your happiness is your own responsibility. Right. And I don't want to tell Jackie necessarily to go do her own thing, but I do think that there is something about creating structures around these times, especially if, you know that these are times that happen. I'm not sure. In their relationship, because she mentioned that they were both professors, so I'm wondering if they can. It might be easier for them to Create structures around this. Because maybe there are, like, seeds, set points in a year where he's like, I just finished a show, or, you know, something like that. So maybe it's helpful. I hope this is helpful for Jackie to set up those structures when she knows he needs a couple of weeks and maybe. Maybe put a timer on it. You know, Jennifer Aniston said something that I love. She said that her therapist told her, you get a year to grieve this, like, to the day, like, and it starts now. Now you're on the. And when that year is up, that's. We're done. And I do think that there's something to. That maybe there's something to giving him two and a half weeks, three weeks. And she knows those three weeks are coming, so she can set up her own life, her own, you know, not saying she should go on a vacation. Although Jackie, if you go on a vacation, that's not the worst idea. But maybe there's a way that she can know that these things are coming. He can have his time. And then when those three weeks are up, he has to re. Engage with her. So maybe both of them can have what they need. And he may not understand that this. He may not even know it's happening. Cause it's just how life has been for him. And now he has to contend with another person. And his way of dealing with it doesn't. It just doesn't work.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. I latch onto the question of should I communicate these thoughts? That's Jackie was asking. And I would say yes, you communicate to your partner how this is making you feel, because maybe you don't feel like you're in a safe space. But I think at the very core, I would say, Jackie, it is not helpful for you to hold on to these feelings and not involve your partner in this challenge. And it may be better to do it in a time where he's up, you know, rather than piling on at a time when he's perhaps already emotionally vulnerable. So thinking ahead to, like, okay, you know, assuming that all else is fine and they're not teetering on the brink, that she's gotta remember how she feels when times are good, you know, or remember the bad times when times are good. Cause sometimes it's hard to have a conversation when everything is a tough conversation when everything is good. But it might be necessary for her to say, hey, you winning? Look at you. You just created this, and now you're coming home. Now, let's talk about last month. You know, I didn't Want to share this with you, but, you know, I don't even know if you notice, but when things aren't going well for you, you tend to show up in this way. It makes me feel this and feel that. Can we talk about that? Do you see it in the same way? You know? Cause she also wants to get a sense of what is he really feeling. She's interpreting what she thinks he's feeling if she hasn't asked. So she's gotta give him some space to say, right, wrong, yes. You know, no, that's not it. Or, ooh, spot on. And then in that moment, let's. Let's talk through this. Let's talk through a plan. And this. I think this, Ryan, is where the plan of, can we get some agreement now that if we both agree that you're doing this and that it's making me feel this way, how can we resolve it? And is there a period of time? Is there a signal? Is there a word? Is there a. Or do we set up a structure that no matter what, we're always gonna go on a date night once a month? We're always gonna mark the box when we are intimate. We're just gonna practice our way through your bad time. But that's gotta be a joint.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Cause he may not know. He may not even realize, especially if this is something that he's been doing before they got married. So it may be a complete blind spot for him. It might be a blind spot, Jackie.

[Michelle Obama]

It might be a blind spot.

[Misha Euceph]

But that's good. So we got some points for Jackie, and I think it starts with the communication. You have to communicate it, and then.

[Michelle Obama]

And she shouldn't feel guilty or feel like she should hold onto it.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah. There's some other issues there. If she doesn't feel like she can communicate.

[Craig Robinson]

There's something I think that may not have been fully articulated that was part of our conversation in terms of what you said, man. If you make a bid for connection and you feel as if that bid for connection gets rejected, then it's like, then what do you do? You know what I'm saying? It's like, oh, boy. It's like playing double Dutch sometimes. Like, when do I get in with this cat to try to make this connection? And if you got hit by the rope, you're like, ah, dang it. I didn't get in at the right time.

[Misha Euceph]

You gotta be blunt, though. You have to be blunt. If that happens, speak on it. Coach, come on. In my experience, you can't tiptoe into the right. Or if you tiptoe into the rope, you know you gonna get hit. But if you go in confidently and bluntly, you gonna jump right in and get your steps down.

[Craig Robinson]

That's good.

[Sterling K. Brown]

That is good. Maybe that's what she needs. She just needs the confidence to boldly say what her truth is.

[Misha Euceph]

Or I need to have a deeper conversation about what's going on here. And that gets to the negotiation, which gets to your structures. I mean, I love the sh. I'm a structure person.

[Craig Robinson]

You have 30 points.

[Misha Euceph]

Coach me. Coach me up. Coach me up. And I will do what I can. But, you know, and sometimes in these relationships, and I don't want to get too far afield, I want Jackie to hear those three points. But I also want to talk about how Jackie can't be one of these folks who gets upset that because the guy is like, coach me up. She doesn't want him to say coach me up. She wants him to figure it out on his own.

[Craig Robinson]

You expecting people to read your mind is what you're talking about.

[Misha Euceph]

Expect people to read your mind. Which is why you got to go in bluntly.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Misha Euceph]

That's why you got to go in bluntly.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, and then you gotta also acknowledge that for Jackie, expressing her intimacy needs could feel. It could. It could feel risky. She may make her feel vulnerable. I mean, sometimes asking for. Having to ask, you know, that might tap into some insecurities about her. It's like, maybe I'm not worthy. Maybe I. You know, so, you know, sometimes that I want you to read my mind stuff is about, like, don't make.

[Craig Robinson]

Come on. Empathy.

[Michelle Obama]

Like, don't. Don't make me say it, because it's hard for me, and I feel unsafe. And this is where you gotta know your partner. Cause what's their history of safety and intimacy?

[Craig Robinson]

I am Jackie.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, Sterling.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Well, it's like, you guys. You guys had someone on your podcast who was talking about the edge of vulnerability, like, finding the edge in terms of the vulnerability with your partner. And I feel like this is.

[Michelle Obama]

That was Orna. Orna, yes.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And this is very much that, like, she is really at. Jackie sounds like she's at the edge, you know, to your point. About, like. Well, there's something there that's very scary for her, and she's at that edge and, like, teetering, you know?

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Sterling K. Brown]

But I think she's. She may feel unsafe.

[Michelle Obama]

Sterling is feeling. I'm like, you need me to hold your hand?

[Craig Robinson]

I'll take.

[Michelle Obama]

I know. Just let it go. You are good Enough.

[Misha Euceph]

Listen.

[Michelle Obama]

Ryan's like, please, boy, calm down. Beautiful.

[Sterling K. Brown]

I think Jackie is. She chose this partner for a reason. And I think she should remember that and remember that she. It may feel unsafe, but I think I like to believe that she might be safer than she realizes.

[Craig Robinson]

There, you know. Now you know I'm Jackie, don't you?

[Michelle Obama]

You are not Jackie.

[Craig Robinson]

Jackie.

[Sterling K. Brown]

You are not Jackie. Jackie is Jackie.

[Michelle Obama]

You are.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Sterling, leave Jackie alone.

[Craig Robinson]

Every woman. It's all in me now.

[Misha Euceph]

Now, wait. I hope Jackie knows we're not taking her thing lightly.

[Michelle Obama]

No, she got some good direction. Yeah.

[Misha Euceph]

Now I wanna. Before we move on to the IMO segment, the social segment.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes, sir.

[Misha Euceph]

You two met each other before today, but you didn't get a chance to. So tell me about that.

[Michelle Obama]

You've been rubbing it in for years.

[Craig Robinson]

It's been like 12, 13 years until.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Yes, for years.

[Craig Robinson]

I did a show called Army Wives on Lifetime and there was. I believe it was like a luncheon for military. Military spouses, et cetera. And you invited cast of Army Wives because we were on the air at the time and it was like an episode of Key and Peele. The receiving line. Everybody was in the receiving line and all the ladies were coming through. And Madam first lady was like, nice to meet you. Thank you for coming. Thank you for your service. Everything like that. And Brown got up there and I was like, can I have a hood? And she said, boy, please come. And we just. It was like the arms were out, the guns were showing. I was like, ver, guess who hugged me today.

[Misha Euceph]

A real hug.

[Craig Robinson]

Madam first lady held me in her arms and I felt loved and seen and appreciated. And Ryan looked at me like, are you. She was so mad. And the more the. The more I shared, the more angry she became. And then the more I said. I was like. She hugged me close.

[Michelle Obama]

Not even. Right.

[Misha Euceph]

So did you commemorate that? The.

[Craig Robinson]

It was one of the great days

[Misha Euceph]

of my life, so I know my sister wanted to commemorate.

[Michelle Obama]

You have it. You have it. Watch your Achilles.

[Misha Euceph]

Not hurt yourself.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, my gosh. Brian wasn't lying. Look, you're right, right. This is short, you guys.

[Craig Robinson]

This is like the greatest day of my life. You gonna get to take a picture after this and then you'll be fine.

[Misha Euceph]

We are going to get a. A copy of that so that Mish signs it for you.

[Michelle Obama]

I remember that moment too, Sterling. I do. I do. Was one of the things. One of our strategies with joining forces, our effort to support military families was working with Hollywood runners and writers to really reward and uplift Shows that were shining a light on military families and also get writers to put them into scripts in ways that were normal and natural because most people don't understand that struggle. So your show was one of the leading ones, and we thought a lot of the military wives and moms were watching it.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

So we were like, this would be a fun moment. So it was really special. I think my mom was probably there, too. I think she was at that luncheon. But it was really. And the fact that the cast and crew took the time to come to the White House to help honor those women who were sacrificing and serving, it was really the background.

[Sterling K. Brown]

And I see the background.

[Michelle Obama]

I remember all your belts.

[Misha Euceph]

Yeah, those belts. You can't miss those belts. You cannot miss them.

[Craig Robinson]

I don't know if you can come in on my camera, but this happened. Like, bro, you think I'd just be making something up?

[Sterling K. Brown]

Bro, don't be making something up.

[Michelle Obama]

This happens.

[Craig Robinson]

Thank you all very, very.

[Michelle Obama]

You are so silly.

[Misha Euceph]

You are welcome. Thank you for being here.

[Sterling K. Brown]

Are you kidding me?

[Michelle Obama]

We can't wait. Well, before we go. Cause, you know, you guys will be working together again sort of a bit on the next season of paradise, one of my favorite shows. I am there.

[Craig Robinson]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

I am. You know this.

[Misha Euceph]

Johnny, come lately. I'm late to the party.

[Michelle Obama]

Johnny, come lately.

[Craig Robinson]

I'm there when you're ready.

[Misha Euceph]

You know, it's much better when I can just breeze through.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, sometimes I just let em pile up.

[Misha Euceph]

Oh, do you hear that?

[Michelle Obama]

I do. I just.

[Sterling K. Brown]

It's a psychological.

[Michelle Obama]

No, it's a psychological discipline. Because I just can't. I need to.

[Misha Euceph]

Psychological discipline.

[Sterling K. Brown]

No, I agree.

[Craig Robinson]

Can I say this part? This last part to end. Because I was talking on. That was us. I do a rewatch podcast with this is us. I was saying this about my wife, and I would put you, Madam first lady, in the same category. And I'm sure if and when your husband gets a chance to hear this, he'll echo. There is one of the greatest gifts you can give to someone who has not fully realized their potential at that time is to say yes to them in their current set of circumstances and just believe that this is an individual that regardless if they have all the trappings that come along with what I want success, or what I think success or what society says success should look like, I still choose you. That is one of the most emboldening and wonderful feelings that you can ever have in life. So to both of you, I say thank you because it means a lot it means a lot. Yeah.

[Misha Euceph]

Oh, that's a. That's a mic drop there.

[Michelle Obama]

Really?

[Craig Robinson]

Aw.

[Michelle Obama]

Aren't you cute?

[Sterling K. Brown]

And that's why we stay cute.

[Michelle Obama]

I know when they say things like that, it's like, aw. Well, this has been fun.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes, this has been great.

[Michelle Obama]

You had a great time.

[Misha Euceph]

Oh, you, too.

[Michelle Obama]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Sterling K. Brown]

We really appreciate y'.

[Misha Euceph]

All. Yeah.

[Sterling K. Brown]

They're trying to keep us apart.

[Michelle Obama]

No more. It's a pleasure.

[Ryan Michelle Bathe]

Same, same.

[Michelle Obama]

Same. Sam.