Take the Little Wins with Aly Raisman

Summary

Podcast Summary: IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson

Episode: Take the Little Wins with Aly Raisman
Host: Higher Ground
Release Date: February 4, 2026
Special Guest: Aly Raisman

---

Episode Overview

This episode centers around resilience, healing, and redefining success with Olympic gold medalist Aly Raisman. Michelle Obama and her brother, Craig Robinson, bring their warmth and humor to a deeply candid conversation about the intensity of elite gymnastics, struggles with body image, mental health, healing from trauma, and embracing life after sports. Listeners’ personal dilemmas are addressed with compassion and practical advice, creating a supportive atmosphere enriched by Aly's openness about mental wellness and recovery.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Childhood Dreams and Early Dedication

• Starting Young in Gymnastics
  • Aly explains that to become elite, "you have to start so young" ([07:27]), sharing her journey from “mommy and me” classes at age 2 to realizing her Olympic ambitions by 8, inspired by watching the 1996 Atlanta Games.
  • Despite rigorous training, Aly’s family prioritized her being a kid, with her mother often pushing back on excessive demands ([07:53]).
• Dreams Crystallizing
  • Aly recalls a pivotal moment at age 8:
    “I watched it and I said, I'm gonna go to the Olympics and I'm gonna win floor.” ([10:13])
  • She highlights the unwavering internal conviction that set her Olympic path.

Intensity of Elite Training and Olympic Competition

• Grueling Practice
  • Michelle and Aly discuss the extreme difficulty of gymnastic strength moves, like the press handstand sequences required in training ([15:00]–[16:18]).
  • Aly reflects:
    “I just... I don't know how I did it because it was so intense, but I just loved it. And I can't explain. It was this obsession.” ([16:18])
• Sacrifices and Pressure
  • Aly addresses moments of self-doubt and wanting to quit but credits her parents for allowing her freedom and supporting her regardless of competition outcomes ([17:24]).
• The Olympic Experience
  • She vividly describes her mindset at her first Olympics, finding ways to manage nerves and appreciating her teammates' camaraderie ([29:52]–[30:41]).
  • Memorable moment:
    “Simone and I... we were about to compete and we went to the bathroom quickly. And I remember I looked at her and I said, you good? She goes, nope. I said, nope. And we both... I said, I feel like I'm gonna throw up. And then we just were like, okay, let's just be nervous together. Let's do this together.” ([30:41])

Body Image, Nutrition, and Mental Health in Gymnastics

• Toxic Myths and Lack of Education
  • Aly exposes the “old school” attitudes around body image and nutrition within gymnastics, criticizing misinformation like being told drinking too much water could affect performance ([19:32]).
• Lasting Effects
  • She shares the struggles of body dysmorphia and the immense pressure felt from both the system and media standards:
    “For so long, I always thought that I didn't have the right body for gymnastics, or it wasn't enough. And now I think it's... changing...” ([23:04])
• Evolving the Conversation
  • Michelle underscores:
    “We are taught to be—to hate ourselves and the packages that we're in.... But we will together have to work on undoing it. You know, take back that power...” ([24:42])

Healing After Elite Sport and Managing Trauma

• Retirement: Not an End, But a Transition
  • Aly describes retirement as both relief (from burnout and trauma) and a difficult period of redefining self-worth ([37:52]).
  • She openly discusses continuing PTSD and the necessity of therapy, including ongoing exposure therapy, to process her experiences ([39:25]).
  • Highlight:
    “It's been such a gift to see all the amazing places that I've gotten to go from it.... But I think I have... figured out who I am outside of all that.” ([34:57])
• Taking the Little Wins
  • She now celebrates “small wins,” like being able to eat dinner without nausea, finding value in slow progress and prioritizing her personal life ([43:17]).
  • "I've just learned to... If I have a tough day, I'm not going to feel like this forever." ([43:18])

Q&A: Navigating Grief, Setbacks, and Hope

• Listener Question:
  Chris, from NYC, shares her story of heartbreak, family estrangement, and health setbacks, asking, “How do you keep hope alive that building a family and 'having it all' is still possible?” ([44:27])
• Aly’s Advice:
  • Be kind to yourself, as you would to a younger you.
  • Allow permission to take each day at a time; prioritize things that bring calm or joy, even if it’s a small comfort.
  • "If you don't have five minutes for yourself, you need a full hour." ([47:16])
  • Recognize that tough times don’t last forever—validate your own feelings.
• Michelle's Reflection:
  • Redefines goals around forming a family and “having it all,” emphasizing gratitude, internal exploration, and not placing life on hold while waiting for things to happen ([48:05]).
  • "Keep living your life while your life is unfolding, and then be in a position of gratitude for whatever life brings you, because there is true joy in all those options that lay before you. It's just how you think about it." ([50:43])

---

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Olympic Nerves:
  Aly Raisman: “Let’s just be nervous together. Let’s do this together.” ([30:41])

• On Gymnastics and Self-Worth:
  Aly Raisman: “My worth used to be determined by my result. And I feel really detached, in a good way, from my gymnastics career...” ([34:57])

• On Body Image in Sports:
  Aly Raisman: “I think body dysmorphia is such a real thing, and something that so many people struggle with... I want people to feel good in the body that they’re in.” ([23:04])

• On Healing and Therapy:
  Aly Raisman (on exposure therapy): “My therapist was saying, the fact you’re having such a strong reaction shows how much you need to do this,” ([41:06])

• Michelle Obama’s Encouragement:
  “You are incredible on so many different levels... The work that you’re doing on yourself is work that’s impacting the world.” ([51:07])

• Advice for the Listener:
  Aly Raisman: “Give yourself permission to do things that bring you calm and bring you joy, because you deserve that.” ([47:16])

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – Aly and Simone Biles backstage at Olympics: coping with nerves
• 07:27 – Aly on the necessity of starting gymnastics young and her parents’ supportive approach
• 10:13 – Childhood dream crystallizes while watching 1996 Olympics
• 16:18 – Aly on the sheer intensity of elite training routines
• 19:32 – Discussion of outdated, harmful nutrition advice in gymnastics
• 23:04 – Changing the narrative around body types in gymnastics
• 29:52 – Behind the scenes at the Olympics and managing performance anxiety
• 30:41 – Bonding with teammates and reframing the experience of “winning” silver
• 34:57 – Moving beyond sports results as a measure of self-worth
• 39:25 – Aly describes her ongoing work in therapy and exposure therapy
• 44:27 – Listener question on dealing with setbacks and maintaining hope
• 47:16 – Aly’s practical advice: give yourself permission for self-care and joy
• 51:07 – Michelle and Misha’s closing words of gratitude and support

---

Tone and Style

The episode is earnest, heartfelt, and filled with both humor and vulnerability. Aly Raisman is honest yet hopeful, while Michelle and Misha provide warmth, wisdom, and laughter. The dynamic is conversational and deeply empathetic, offering a rare, inside look at the personal journeys behind public success.

---

For Listeners

This episode is essential for anyone navigating pressure, self-doubt, trauma, or the struggles of redefining themselves after a major life transition. It offers genuine reassurance that “little wins” count, and emphasizes the ongoing nature of healing, growth, and self-discovery.

Transcript

[Aly Raisman]

In 2016, before the all around final, Simone and I, we were about to compete and we went to the bathroom quickly. And I remember I looked at her and I said, you good? She goes, nope.

[Michelle Obama]

You good?

[Aly Raisman]

I said, nope. And we both. I said, I feel like I'm going to throw up. And then we just were like, okay, let's just be nervous together. Let's do this together. But it was nice because even though we were competing against each other, we still felt like a team in that moment.

[Misha Collins]

Well, what do you think?

[Michelle Obama]

What's the Olympic music? So when did you join the ski team?

[Misha Collins]

I didn't. And you know.

[Michelle Obama]

Are you a bobsled?

[Misha Collins]

I don't. I don't want to. I don't want to portray myself as an Olympian, even though I would have loved to have been an Olympian. But this is just some gear that I'm wearing from Ralph Lauren.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, it's good. I love it. I'm just wondering where my sweater is. Ralph Lauren.

[Misha Collins]

Well, what are you wearing?

[Michelle Obama]

I'm wearing Ralph Lauren, too. Winter collection. These beautiful velvet, deep purple pants. I love this. Feels so good.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Misha Collins]

Well, you know the Ralph Lauren outfits, the US Olympic team and Paralympic team and has been for quite a while. And they were kind enough to send me this authentic Olympic sweater that is actually very comfortable.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, it does. It's soft. It's like the Ralph Lauren sweaters. The quality is exactly the same.

[Misha Collins]

And we've got the team patches on the side. It's just on the sleeve.

[Michelle Obama]

Very cool gear. Very cool. Very Americana.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah, yeah. And I threw on my Ralph Lauren.

[Michelle Obama]

Of course, kicks too. Of course.

[Misha Collins]

So.

[Michelle Obama]

So we've got the Winter Olympics coming up.

[Misha Collins]

Yes. How about that?

[Michelle Obama]

That means that our guest is right on the money.

[Misha Collins]

She sure is.

[Michelle Obama]

I wanted to be a gymnast.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah, I remember that.

[Michelle Obama]

I was a huge fan. Yeah, I know. It's funny, right?

[Misha Collins]

You know, everybody's giggling. Cause they can't believe that you wanted to be a gym.

[Michelle Obama]

I loved the Olympics solely for the gymnastics.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Ogle Corbett, Nadia Comanich. Those performances, I was riveted. And I was determined to be a gymnast until I started to grow. And I realized there was absolutely. I wondered why I could never do a full back walkover.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And I just think my body structure, it's like little. Little torso, long legs, trying to kick over. I never could kick over as smoothly as the real gymnast could.

[Misha Collins]

I know you.

[Michelle Obama]

So I had to hang up my. I had to. Those dreams were dashed.

[Misha Collins]

I know you won't remember this, but I remember you Trying to do that.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Misha Collins]

And it was.

[Michelle Obama]

I would spend hours in the living room. I was good at a cartwheel, a good round off, but the going backwards stuff was a problem.

[Misha Collins]

Well, I remember you doing a back bend where, you know, you have your hands back and your legs, but the part before you kicked yourself over.

[Michelle Obama]

Right. I could be back.

[Misha Collins]

You were really good at that.

[Michelle Obama]

So I am way more excited than you can imagine to have a true Olympian. Please do a proper introduction.

[Misha Collins]

Let me get the introduction out of the way and we can bring her out. So, Ali Raisman, team captain of the gold medal winning US women's gymnastic teams in 2012 and 2016, is one of the most dangerous decorated American gymnast of all time. A leader on and off the floor, Raisman uses her platform to help normalize the conversation around mental health, abuse prevention, positive body image and the importance of self care. She is a two time New York Times bestselling author and now an ESPN analyst for College Gymnastics.

[Michelle Obama]

Nice.

[Misha Collins]

Without further ado. Ali, come on down.

[Aly Raisman]

Hi.

[Michelle Obama]

It's good to see you again. So good to see you.

[Misha Collins]

Wait, I don't hear your gold medals clanging.

[Aly Raisman]

They are in a safe somewhere. Yeah, I actually don't even know where they are.

[Michelle Obama]

I believe that.

[Misha Collins]

I believe that.

[Aly Raisman]

But if I did, I would tell you guys, secretly.

[Michelle Obama]

Not on here. Oh, thank you.

[Aly Raisman]

Such a gentleman.

[Michelle Obama]

Thank you. It's true. Welcome, welcome, welcome.

[Misha Collins]

But see, you're a true athlete. The trophies and medals, that's an afterthought. You got to compete.

[Aly Raisman]

I know. Well, first of all.

[Misha Collins]

And win.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you guys so much for having me on. I'm so, just honored and thrilled. It's really a gift to be here with both of you. So thank you. And you know what? This probably sounds cheesy, but I think because I don't think about the medals so much, but maybe because I. I got them. So it's. I'm very. I'm so happy and satisfied with my gymnastics career that it's funny. It's not like I bring out my medals or I don't bring them everywhere.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah.

[Aly Raisman]

Because then TSA is like, oh, we gotta check your bag. And then they wanna try it on. So I don't really bring it places anymore. Yeah, it's like, don't touch it.

[Michelle Obama]

You wanna just put it back? Yeah, I didn't think about the TSA issue.

[Aly Raisman]

I know. They're like, you gotta check your bag. And then they open it and they say, can I try it on? And then it's a whole thing.

[Misha Collins]

So wait, Commentating for espn.

[Aly Raisman]

Yes.

[Misha Collins]

Is this first time?

[Aly Raisman]

My third season. Third season, yes. All right.

[Misha Collins]

How's it going?

[Aly Raisman]

It's good. The third season starts soon and I love it. It's actually been healing for me because I've kind of gotten to re. Fall in love with gymnastics again. And I absolutely love the age group of college students. They're just so loving and sweet and so, and they work so hard. And I think because I know what it feels like. I didn't do college gymnastics, but I know what it feels like to work so hard and to be out there in the nerves. And I try to bring a more human element to it of if they make a mistake, instead of trying to be dramatic to build the moment, I try to do the opposite and be like they're human and remind the viewer that it is so stressful and so nerve wracking. My therapist would say you have to be okay with knowing that you might by accident hurt someone's feelings. But it's very hard to be like that, especially when the athletes are 18 to 22 years old and, you know, some of them watch me compete and they're, you know, excited to talk to me. So I take that very seriously. But what I've learned to do is instead of saying, instead of critiquing it, I'll try to more point out, oh, the judges might take off for the bent leg right there. So it's more explaining how I think the judges might see it.

[Michelle Obama]

Unless it doesn't become your personal view. You are really sort of objectively showing the viewers how things are scored.

[Misha Collins]

You're objectively showing them how subjective it is.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, the amazing thing about gymnastics is that in order to be good at it, you have to start so young to. Can you talk about that? Why is it that you need to, you know, kids who are really interested and are going to be serious gymnasts, how young do they recommend you starting? Why is that? Can you talk a bit about, you know, the sport itself and what it takes to become good?

[Aly Raisman]

I started when I was 2 years old with mommy and me classes, which is so young. And I'm the oldest of four, so I was lucky. My parents kind of threw me in a bunch of different sports, but I loved gymnastics the most. And I would say what I do appreciate for my parents is that it was actually, I think, the opposite of what a lot of people would expect is that as the gymnastics progressed, my mom would actually push back on my coaches and worry that I was doing too much. So it wasn't My parents pushing me to do more hours. It was actually the opposite of my parents wanting me to be able to be a kid. But even at 8 years old, if everyone was trick or treating, I might have been at the gym and maybe, you know, covered in chalk, running to go trick or treating late. But that was really what I wanted to do, right?

[Misha Collins]

So what age were you when you thought, okay, this is something that I want to dedicate all my time to so that I miss the trick or treating and I miss the different things. And at what age did you start to say, okay, I want to be really good at this?

[Aly Raisman]

I was so in love with gymnastics. And even when I was six years old, I just remember I would daydream about it all day long. I loved it so much. And I remember When I was 8 years old, my mom found a VHS tape that my grandfather had recorded years prior and didn't really think anything of it. It was of the 1996 Women's Olympic Gymnastics team from the Atlanta Olympics. And my mom put it in. I remember vividly sitting on this leather green couch in the living room and would just watch it over and over again. And my mom didn't realize that tape would change my life. And I remember watching that and watching the US Gymnastics team win the gold medal. I remember Ukrainian gymnast Lilia Podkop Pord Kapaeva won the floor and the all around. And I was just so obsessed and wanted to be there. And I think at that moment I was watching it. And I've never had this feeling like I did when I was 8, but I watched it and I said, I'm gonna go to the Olympics and I'm gonna win floor.

[Michelle Obama]

Wow. Wow.

[Aly Raisman]

And I cannot explain it. I just knew it. And I'm not that. That's not a feeling I've had with other things in life. So it's just something about it I knew. And then my mom didn't know until we were watching the 2004 Olympics and I was 10 years old and Carly Patterson was on beam competing in the all around final. And they showed her mom in the audience and her mom, of course, was so nervous and my mom was sitting with me on the bed and my mom just said, oh, I'm so glad I'll never have to experience that one day. And now I tease my mom that jokingly that it's karma because they showed my parents in 2012 all the time, and they were so nervous and so stressed. So we always joke about that. But at that moment I got so upset with my mom because I couldn't believe she didn't know that I was gonna go to the Olympics and didn't believe in me. And my mom says it was that moment, she was like, okay, I didn't know. Let's do this.

[Michelle Obama]

Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you. But I'll be there. I'll get my act together to be able to support.

[Misha Collins]

So at 8 years old, how many hours a day, how much time were you dedicating to training?

[Aly Raisman]

At 8? I think it was probably. That's a good question. I think at 8, my mom would have a better memory of this. But I do remember, I think starting at around, Maybe starting around 7 or 8 years old, I started doing this thing called TOPS, which is talent Opportunity Program. And it's for literally the strongest 8 to 11 year old gymnast in the country. And you go and you do all this different conditioning tests and you try to qualify for the A team is the top 20 in the country and the B is from 21 to 40. So I remember that's where you go. It was at the Crowley Ranch. And you would go and you would try to be in front of a lot of the national team. It was a very, very big deal at the time. And so, um, I just remember that was so intimidating, but also so exciting. And so I think around seven, I started to train more for that. And I think there was one year when I was 11, I made the A team. But another time I just missed it by, I think, one person. But that was so intense. So that's why I trained extra. Cause it was the chance to be in front of the best coaches.

[Misha Collins]

You know, every time the Olympics come around, I'm reminded of that feeling you have as a kid when dreams seem impossibly big until one day they're suddenly real. It's always so impressive to see the world's best athletes achieving childhood dreams and inspiring us all. I remember watching the Olympics as a kid. I loved track and field the most because I thought those were the events that I had an outside chance of competing in. And I also watched basket in boxing with dad. Do you remember watching the Olympics?

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, my gosh, yeah. I mean, I liked the sport that no one had a chance of competing in, which was gymnastics. I was just amazed at the power, the danger, the thrill. Gymnasts to me are true athletes. But I had the privilege as first lady of having some really unique Olympic moments. I got to go to the Olympics and represent the country, attending the opening ceremonies, getting to see some of the Events, which was thrilling. And every Olympics that we were in the White House, Barack and I hosted the entire Olympic team at the White House, where we got a chance to shake every athlete's hand and thank them for their service in representing the country so well. So, yes, lots of fine and exciting Olympic memories.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah. Well, when we talk about dreaming big, as a kid, I dreamed about being an athlete in the Olympics and competing for my country and bringing home medals.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, those are some. You know, I mean, I never dreamed of that because I was never good enough to do it. But I definitely understand the work and dedication that it takes for these athletes to reach those heights.

[Misha Collins]

And another person who dreamed big when they were younger and became a design trailblazer was Ralph Lauren. He had a huge vision that seemed impossible and is now one of the most iconic American designers. It's only fitting that Ralph Lauren would design the outfits for Team USA this year.

[Michelle Obama]

In your book. Cause I read your book, which is amazing, you described an exercise move that I actually had to look up because I wanted to see what it was. I can't remember what it was called, but you said one of your friends could do a bunch of them in a row. And the move was you're sitting straddled on the floor. You push up. Straddled, and then push up to a handstand press. Handstand, press, handstands.

[Aly Raisman]

I did not like those.

[Michelle Obama]

And you would. And how many of the. So part of you had to do, like. You said your friend could do like, 6, 20 of those in a row.

[Aly Raisman]

Yeah, you had to do 10 of them. And my hips are probably still messed up from them. I do not like them. They're so hard. Because you. Yeah, your elbows are straight and your elbows are shoulder width apart, and your legs are straddled, and your. Your legs are sort of at the spot of your elbow. So you're lifting up, and then you lift your hips all the way up into a handstand position and then slowly come down into that straddle position without touching your bum or your legs or anything to the ground. And we were supposed to do 10 in a row.

[Michelle Obama]

And so you come up and down and up and down so hard. That's crazy.

[Aly Raisman]

I. I think back now because I've been out of the sport for a long time. I just. I don't know how I did it because it was so intense, but I just loved it. And I can't explain. It was this obsession.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah. But people don't understand how hard it is to be an elite level Athlete. And even in basketball, which I know you can't luck into it, right, there's a lot of hard work. And just to do those things that you hated doing, you had to train to be able to do it. So the amount of willpower is what I like to call it, that it takes to do the training, because that's the hard part is getting up at 6:30 in the morning and doing it. And you talk about how you loved it so much, but were there ever times where you were like, you know what, I need to rethink this. I. So can you talk to our audience about how that felt and how you combated that feeling?

[Aly Raisman]

Yeah, there were definitely moments where I wanted to quit. I think that I really credit my mom and dad a lot because they really did give me the freedom and always told me, if you don't wanna do it anymore, we will understand. And they did walk the walk. If I didn't do well at a competition, I saw growing up other parents that were not happy with their kids if they didn't do well. And it was just. It's devastating because we're already our own biggest critic. Our coaches are hard on us. And so I think knowing that, you know, if I. There was one competition I didn't do as well, and it's. My mom would be not upset with me if I didn't do well. She'd be upset if I wasn't a good sport and she didn't feel that I congratulated the other athletes enough or she felt like I was pouting or upset or kind of wanted to stay in my room and not wanted to go out to dinner with everyone, that was when she was upset. But I think I put so much pressure on myself when I was younger that it sometimes got in the way as I got better of me loving it. And then as I got older, I knew I was good at it, that I almost felt guilty if I didn't want to do it anymore. I wanted a break because I knew that I had put so much into it. And as I got older, around 14 years old, that's when I started to feel the pressure to lose weight, which is just. I look back, I was so tiny, so thin. And where was that?

[Michelle Obama]

Where did that come from? Did that come from coaches? Did that come from? Because I. One of the things I was surprised about that you talked about in your book, that in all this training that you were doing with all these coaches and all these leagues, that at no point in your life did anybody talk about nutrition. Looking back. Why do you think that was? I mean, how did you get to the point where you didn't know how to fuel yourself working that hard? Um. And nobody was teaching that.

[Aly Raisman]

Yeah. I think that at the time when I was competing, a lot of the coaches and national staff, and I think that a lot of them. It's interesting because I've done sort of so much reflecting and. And therapy about it over the years to. To understand, but I think that they really believed that if we ate less and were thinner or even just to the point of drinking too much water, it was so old school. And so I think misunderstood nutrition about. I mean, I was even told if I drank too much water, that would impact my performance. And I. I want to. I think it's really important for anyone who's listening to know that. I don't think that's true. And I think it's so critical to fuel our bodies. And I look back, and when I was competing, sometimes my biggest stress was that my muscles were going to cramp up because I was so. I was malnourished. I was so exhausted.

[Michelle Obama]

And you were dehydrated.

[Aly Raisman]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

You were pushing hard with absolutely no fuel in your body.

[Aly Raisman]

I think it was this pressure to almost fight against as a young girl going through puberty. Of course my body's naturally gonna change, and it's important that it does. And naturally, at that age, I was putting on weight as I should be. And I think when I was younger, I was always taught to trust and respect elders. Yes. And it had never occurred to me.

[Michelle Obama]

That they didn't know what they were talking about.

[Aly Raisman]

Yes. And that sometimes someone in a high position of power might not be a good person, or might not be the right person for the job, or might not be steering me in the right direction. And so I think it also goes back to. I was sort of taught from a young age to not trust my gut and to always want approval for other people and that their opinions mattered more than mine. And so I've really worked to be aware of that and try to unlearn that in that way. But it was, you know, I think also the way that the national team also was set up for so long was that only people allowed in were the ones who would allow that, you know, corrupt system to keep going.

[Michelle Obama]

It was a very closed door.

[Aly Raisman]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

You know.

[Aly Raisman]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

You have to buy into the philosophy.

[Aly Raisman]

Yes.

[Misha Collins]

And, you know, if I could jump in there, because I remember when basketball coaches used to think in an archaic way and, you know, I mean, and it Wasn't until. It wasn't. And I'm not sure about this, but it wasn't until basketball became a sport that was televised all over the place, so people wanted to come to practice, and people started seeing inside of what was going on that things started changing. And you're at a point now where, if, you know, gymnastics is gonna be on TV a lot more now, you're gonna be commentating on it. You're gonna have the ability to speak to some of these things and sort of help the system fix itself. And I'm really looking forward to that.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you. Me, too. Thank you. It's. I actually remember in 2016, there was, I believe there was an article about me and Simone Biles. Cause we had talked about in interviews at the time how we were told that we didn't have the right body for gymnastics. And the article said something. It was very supportive of us, and it was saying something of, you know, quote, our, you know, bad bodies for gymnastics, got us 11 Olympic medals or something like that. And I just remember, you know, we. We talk about that a lot, is just how, you know, for so long, I always thought that I didn't have the right body for gymnastics or it wasn't enough. And now I think it's. It's changing where, you know, regardless of what body type you have, that's what makes gymnastics so beautiful. And that's why I love watching it, is because you have one athlete who excels on one event and then another that excels on a different event. And I think what's really cool is that it's just there's no right or wrong way to do it, and you kind of make it your own. I think body dysmorphia is such a real thing and something that so many people struggle with and being aware of, even how I view my own body, how I speak about my body, because it impacts other people. And I want people to feel good in the body that they're in. And I think it's something I'm very passionate about because so many of my friends are so hard on themselves and so insecure.

[Michelle Obama]

No, no one. Especially among women. We're never happy with what God gave us. We're all always picking apart ourselves, and we're being picked apart. We are taught to be. To hate ourselves and the packages that we're in. So it's first beginning to say we didn't do this to ourselves. Right? But we will together have to work on undoing it. You know, take back that power and you're doing a great job at it. Thank you.

[Misha Collins]

All right, Allie, I want to talk about what it's like to be in the Olympics.

[Aly Raisman]

Okay.

[Misha Collins]

Because Misha already said she wanted to be a gymnast so desperately.

[Michelle Obama]

I grew up, so I'm in awe. I bow down. Me too.

[Misha Collins]

We both grew up going to day camp, and at our day camp, they didn't have gymnastics, but they had a lot of the Olympic events like track and field and volleyball, and it was sort of like a summer camp Olympics. So I would like you to share with us what it felt like to be there. You already made the team. What did it feel like to compete?

[Aly Raisman]

Okay. Okay. I think that. I think the actual competition itself. So I remember the first moment of competing for the first time. So in gymnastics, we only get to see the arena one quick practice before we compete. So you. Every single piece of equipment in gymnastics feels different because there's different brands of equipment. So some might be a little bit bouncier or harder or maybe slippery. It's just a different feel. And the lights in the arena, you might be flipping upside down and the lights might hit you. It's just very different than what you're used to. And I remember I somehow convinced myself that not a lot of people would watch it. So I did watch the Olympics. Yes. Yes. I was 18 years old.

[Michelle Obama]

No one's here.

[Misha Collins]

Talk about positive thinking.

[Aly Raisman]

Yes. I just thought, okay, well, there's probably not going to be a lot. Lot of people that watch this. And then I thought, I'm just gonna pretend that I'm not here. But then everywhere you look is Olympic ring. So we had the one practice, then. Qualification is one of the most important days because it's how you qualify for everything. So if you are number one in the world, but you have an off day, you might not advance to any of the event finals. It's how you qualify for team all around in any of the individuals. And what's really hard is they have the two per country rule. So even if the Americans go one, two, even though. Yeah, the American that's in third place, even though they're third in the world, they still won't get too advanced. So it's really competitive, and it's so heartbreaking. It's so devastating.

[Michelle Obama]

Change the rules.

[Aly Raisman]

I know, I know.

[Michelle Obama]

Olympic Committee. These are children.

[Aly Raisman]

I know, I know. It's so devastating. It really is. And then also sometimes you're rooming with the athlete and maybe one of you advance, one of you doesn't. It's just such a emotional and Nerve wracking thing. And I.

[Michelle Obama]

So you're not just hanging out, going away at the Olympic hot chocolate?

[Aly Raisman]

Well, it's so funny. We were next to a team, they must have been done day one because they were partying all hours of the night. So I remember they were so loud. But we, because gymnastics is really a long stretch because we have so many meets, we're really serious there and we're just there. We go to the gym, we sleep, we eat in the cafeteria. We loved going to the cafeteria. We were so excited to see some of the cute swimmers and some of the other athletes having so much fun. We had, we had.

[Misha Collins]

Oh, that's good to hear.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, we had, we had fun.

[Aly Raisman]

We, you know, we had that to look forward to. They're also. Everyone's so nice and so we were so excited. And I loved pin trading. So I would wear my credential and I would trade pins. And because, you know, not everyone speaks the same language, we could communicate that way. So I was obsessed with it. And it's, you know, you find little things to bring you joy when it's so. I remember the first moment of walking out into the competition. I had this moment of I imagined myself on that leather green couch in my living room at 8 years old. And I thought, oh my God, there's gonna be an 8 year old kid out there who's watching me compete. And they're gonna be out here one day too. And I just had this really special full cir. And then we were about to go out and my team at Mikayla Maroney was like, lock it up. You can't be cracking right now. She's like, we don't have time for this. You gotta get it together. And we walked out and I was a little bit emotional. But then it, it's so we used to say it's hurry up and wait. When you walk out, you know, they announce everyone and then you just quickly go, you have 30 seconds to warm up. And it is so stressful and overwhelming and you just go to adjust really quickly to the equipment and then it's your first moment. Cause the practice, there's really no one in the audience. Then you have thousands of people screaming and there's cameras.

[Michelle Obama]

You're like, oh, shoot, people are watching.

[Aly Raisman]

Yes. And there's cameramen. And I actually would focus on NBC, did the broadcast and I remember there was familiar faces that would do our gymnastics in US Championships and stuff. So I would just focus on them. And in the midst of the craziness, I would Think I would see them as I was going for my floor routine and be like, okay, we're just competing in the U.S. this is just a meet. No one's watching this. And I just focus on them because it was sort of. You try to find some familiarity, but it is so nerve wracking. And then in 2016, before the all around final, Simone and I, we were about to compete and we went to the bathroom quickly and I remember I looked at her and I said, you good? She goes, nope.

[Michelle Obama]

You good?

[Aly Raisman]

I said, nope. And we both. I said, I feel like I'm gonna throw up. And then we just were like, okay, let's just be nervous together. Let's do this together. But it was nice because even though we were competing against each other, we still felt like a team in that moment. And it was nice. It was almost this freeing thing because Simone is just so good. And, you know, when I first came back and started training again after 2012, I took a year off and I first came back and I was like, okay, I'm gonna get so good, I'm gonna try to beat her on floor. And I was training so intensely, and my mom actually said something to me and my coach. She said something along the lines of, you are pushing yourself so hard and trying to get these skills that you could hurt yourself and then you're not even gonna end up competing. And it was sort of an eye opening moment. And it kind of. I think me and my coach had this realization where if I'm second to Simone, we would joke getting second is basically first place because Simone's in her own league. Which it just was this really freeing thing of feeling so proud of being second in that I changed it to say, I won the silver medal instead of saying, I get first, I got second place. So I just feel like it was so cool to be able to share that experience because it was this sort of gift of in this world where everything is so obsessed with winning all the time, to be able to flip it and say, you know, I'm so proud of getting the silver medal. I don't think that's something that I heard a lot growing up and the pressure sometimes the media wouldn't have us on if we didn't win. So it just was. It was very cool to be able to share with my teammates. And I think the reason that we did so well is cause we would communicate with each other and, you know, the five of us, it was. We sort of only. We were the only ones who sort of understood what it Was like, do.

[Michelle Obama]

You ever sit back and just sort of realize that what you were able to do, literally, there. There are, like, a handful of people. I mean, gymnastics is one of the most awe inspiring, most difficult and dangerous sports there is. I mean, and because it's a bunch of cute little girls in leotards doing it, it's almost like people treat it like it's a ballet performance, but it's not what gymnasts can do. What you were able to do was miraculous. Like, in basketball, everybody can play basketball, you know?

[Misha Collins]

No, they can't. No, they can't.

[Michelle Obama]

Everybody can't. Anybody can. I can give you a ball.

[Misha Collins]

I'm sure you can. She can't.

[Michelle Obama]

You can. You can. You can shoot at the basket. You can participate, right? Most sports you can. I'm not talking about doing it.

[Misha Collins]

Well, no, I know what you mean.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm talking about.

[Misha Collins]

I get what you're. I know where you're going, Jim.

[Michelle Obama]

There are few sports where no one can do what you can do. No one can come close to doing what you can do. But I think we take that for granted. We don't spend enough time. It's such a subjective hairpin sport, you know, and just hearing you describe how one skill leads to another, it's like just. Even the way you do a back bend or the way your feet land, I mean, it is so precise to be able to get to the next element. And then if you fail, you fall hard and far and you all are small, you know, so you're flying at a speed, at a height, which doubles the height because you're going so fast. I mean, I just look at how fast you run and hit the vault, and you're literally flying in the air. All gymnasts are doing things that the vast majority of humans cannot do, and for that, you know, everybody deserves a fricking medal.

[Aly Raisman]

That's so nice.

[Michelle Obama]

But to be the best at it. Ugh.

[Misha Collins]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

To be the best of the best at it. Like. Like, I hope you can.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, live in that.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you.

[Michelle Obama]

That power.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you. I really actually. Thank you. That's really meaningful. It means a lot. And honestly, if I'm ever having a tough day, I'm just gonna go back and listen to that. That's so nice. But I do actually really feel like I can. And I think I really feel proud of the fact that my. It used. My worth used to be determined by my result. And I feel really detached, in a good way, from my gymnastics career in the sense that I do feel really proud of it. But I also feel it's been such a gift to see all the amazing places that I've gotten to go from it. And being here is such a pinch me moment. To be able to be here with both of you and to see all the people that I get to meet and I feel really proud of. It's made me into the person that I am, but I think I have. Our culture's obsessed with success, and I'm grateful that I experienced it at a young age. So I know that winning or success didn't make me happy, maybe for a moment. But I think what really has made me happy is really trying to peel back all those layers, figure out the lessons that I've learned, the things that I maybe want to unlearn, working through the trauma and all the complicated things and really figuring out who I am outside of all that.

[Misha Collins]

Well, you know, that brings me to where you are now. Or not where you are now, but, you know, at some point you retire from the sport. And it's no secret that most athletes, elite athletes, don't handle retirement well, or their second career is not as successful as their first career. And the streets are littered with athletes who are down and out financially, but more so emotionally and mentally. And so you talk about being in a better space, and the producers and I talked about how elite athletes suffer two deaths. Right. Their first death is when they have to retire. And so can you talk about how you have mentally and emotionally combated that and made yourself into where you're enjoying gardening and enjoying hanging with your family and doing things that normal people do when you've been at such heights?

[Aly Raisman]

Yeah, it's interesting. I find a lot of athletes will ask me for my perspective on what my experience was like retiring from the sport. And I think that mine is unique because I was so burnt out and so ready to be done. So I actually think I had the opposite, where I couldn't even step in a gym for a really long time because I was so traumatized and I had PTSD and I didn't want anything to do with gymnastics. And I. And I really think that commentating college gymnastics has been so special because it's really helped me re. Fall in love with the sport and see it sort of through a different lens. I think for a really long time I struggled with if my gymnastics career was worth it. And that was really hard for me because I spent so much of my life doing it. I had a lot of success in the sport and I just had a really hard time Separating the trauma and the hardship that I endured during it and the bad people that I was around from. I had a hard time, sort of. It felt like it was in a knot with the wonderful people I met in this sport and the wonderful times. And I feel like through years of therapy and I'm still right. Even this past week, I'm doing exposure therapy on some of the trauma that I've experienced. I'm still working on it.

[Michelle Obama]

Can you talk a little bit about what that's like if it comes?

[Aly Raisman]

So for those who don't know what exposure therapy is, and obviously I'm not an expert, I'm just sharing what my therapist has told me. But basically, for me, what I'm doing right now is if there is something that is really triggering me and really upsetting me, and it's something that's coming up for me a lot. I'm thinking about it a lot. And it doesn't necessarily have to be something that is a memory that I'm having. It could be like, for example, I get really upset if I hear that a child is being mistreated. If I see something in the news, if I hear something someone says. And my therapist will say, of course that's a normal reaction to be upset, But I can't stop thinking about it. And I get. I have trouble sleeping. I might have a nightmare about it. I cannot stop thinking about it. And then I want to do something about it, but because my anxiety is so bad, then I feel really nauseous, I don't feel good. And I'm almost working myself up so much that I feel like I can't think clearly enough to think, okay, how can I help? And also recognizing that it's impossible for me to save everyone. And I have a hard time if I hear. If I'm listening to a podcast that randomly brings it up. I have a really hard time with going on with my day without worrying about it and just sort of being in that. So the exposure therapy that I'm working on then is now going through my own memories of my own experiences to try to sort of expose myself to that. Or it could be listening to a podcast that might trigger me where I'm exposing myself to whatever the trauma is. But right now, I'm specifically doing it where I wrote a journal entry about a traumatic memory from myself that my therapist thinks is related to why I have such a strong reaction to hearing something that's really upsetting to me. And then I will read it, try to read it most days. But for Example last week, my, my nausea was so bad from just reading it. I was having such an intense reaction that for a few days I was struggling to eat because I was getting so sick from just reading my journal entry. And so my therapist was saying, the fact you're having such a strong reaction shows how much you need to do this because it's affecting you so much. And I've struggled so much with health stuff, with not feeling good, which I think is also PTSD and trauma related of just my body is feeling so much. And so I was doing it every single day, even though it was really, really hard. And then it's slowly getting a little bit better. But it's something where I might have to read that journal entry for three months or six months. And then the goal is that when I read gets a little bit easier and I'm able to acknowledge, you know, my therapist said I'm never going to get to the point where I'm saying, okay, that happened to me, I'm good, whatever. Of course it's always going to be something that I wish never happened to me or anyone else. But I think I get to the point where I have a little bit of a response that feels more manageable.

[Michelle Obama]

To the work that you're doing and sharing your process. I don't know that there's anybody that's talking as honestly and as openly just about what they're going through and how you're, how you're succeeding, even if it's just small steps. Thank you. That it's just a process that you just keep at it.

[Aly Raisman]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Right.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you. Yeah, it's. I, I feel like the last couple years I really worked on prioritizing my personal life more and I never thought I would be out of place, going from being, you know, obsessed with trying to be at the Olympics to then last week celebrating. I, I was able to eat dinner tonight and I didn't feel so nauseous. And I feel like I've really been able to take these little wins and so I've just learned to, I'm trying to give myself permission to. If I have a tough day, I'm not going to feel like this forever. It's going to be okay, but it's, it's hard. So I just want to validate anyone who's having that tough time that it's, you're not going to feel like this forever and it's tough.

[Misha Collins]

Well, this is, we try and help our listeners to answer a question on each episode, and this is a perfect time to get to the questions.

[Chris (Caller)]

So I'm a 40 year old woman living in New York. Professionally, I've been successful, but personally the last five years have been full of loss and heartbreak. I lost my mother, went through a divorce, became estranged from my father, and have faced repeated disappointments in dating. My most recent relationship ended on the same day I learned I had a fractured hip and would need weeks on crutches. My question is, in the face of grief, failed relationships, setbacks, how do you keep hope alive that building a family and quote, having it all is still possible? Chris in New York City.

[Aly Raisman]

Huh?

[Misha Collins]

No one more qualified to answer that than you. You want to give it a crack?

[Aly Raisman]

Sure. Okay. Well, Chris, I want to say I know it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable like that. And I just wanted to acknowledge and validate how you're feeling and acknowledge that that does sound really hard. I, I, I want to start by saying that I know it can feel so hard because we're, we're often our own biggest critics. And sometimes, at least for myself, it feels kind of funny or silly to try to think about how we're talking to ourselves internally and sometimes we're really hard on ourselves in a way that we probably wouldn't be to someone that we love or care about. So I would say try to be kind to yourself and try to be there for yourself in a way that you would be to maybe the younger version of yourself or a young kid. And just try to, if you're having a tough day, know that you're human, it's okay to have tough days. Um, and I also would say give yourself permission to take it day by day. So if there is something that brings you a lot of joy or there's something that you're thinking, I wish I did more of this. I wish I baked more. I wish I saw this friend more. Give yourself permission to do that. And sometimes on my toughest days, when I'm feeling really upset, obviously, I know a lot of people talk about unplugging and being in nature and all those things are really wonderful. But if there's just a day where you feel so consumed by your anxiety, you know, give yourself permission to just, sometimes you just want to go and watch TV and watch something or read a book that kind of distracts you and takes you away from everything. Just give yourself permission to do that. But then I also will say, find things that bring you calm. I saw something that says if you don't have five minutes for yourself, you need a full hour. So Give yourself permission to do things that bring you calm and bring you joy, because you deserve that. And I am sorry that things are not going the way that you want them to and that you deserve. Because you deserve to have a beautiful life. And so I just want to acknowledge that you're totally valid to feel how you feel. And I want to give you permission to do something that will bring you joy and bring you calm. And if you don't know what that is, that's also okay. But give yourself some time to think about what that is, because you deserve to have that.

[Michelle Obama]

That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

[Misha Collins]

Very wise from a youngster I know.

[Michelle Obama]

My God, Sound like you've been on this earth many times before. That's nice. I think that what I. And I will follow Allie and acknowledge, you know, the realness of those feelings and those fears, because there's nothing worse than someone telling you, oh, that's not a problem. Don't worry about it. I'm trying. For my daughters, for example, I'm trying to make sure that I am conscious about the language I use about even asking them about their future. Right. Because sometimes our traditional questions of, so when are you gonna get married? And how many kids do you wanna have? Presumes that that is the end of the rainbow. And we don't always control that. You know, I mean, you don't control necessarily whether you find the person that you fall in love with. You know, and there are plenty of people who, because they want the marriage, they just fall in love and marry the person right there. And therein lies unhappiness at the end of that, because you weren't thinking about who you wanna be with. You were thinking, I should be with somebody. Because our definitions of happiness can be so narrow. How often are we really exploring how do we feel? Not how do other people make us feel, how do we make other people feel, but how do we wanna feel? And I would urge her to spend some more time on that internal exploration. And before you know it, the day has gone by, a week has gone by, and maybe she's not focusing on what she doesn't have, but she's focusing on what she has and what she can build within her own power, whether she's married or has kids. And that's something that she can control forever and ever. And then there's still room for life to happen. You know, that doesn't mean she has to close off any possibilities, but she's not stagnated and waiting for life to happen. You know, it's like, keep living your life while your life is unfolding, and then be in a position of gratitude for whatever life brings you, because there is true joy in all those options that. That lay before you. It's just how you think about it.

[Misha Collins]

That's good.

[Michelle Obama]

That's powerful.

[Misha Collins]

That's really good. Well, Chris, you've got many choices, but what struck me is when you said, do what brings you calm. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. That's that feeling like you want to feel calm.

[Misha Collins]

Feel calm first and then come up with a solution. Allie, this has been terrific.

[Michelle Obama]

Thank you. You are incredible on so many different levels. You know, I mean, I am just in awe of the work that you're doing in the world, and the work that you're doing on yourself is work that's impacting the world. So you, you know, I mean, please don't rush your process. I mean, please just keep following the trajectory that you're on and keep sharing.

[Misha Collins]

It, keep talking about it. Keep talking about it.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you both so much.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Really proud of you.

[Aly Raisman]

Thank you. That means the world.

[Michelle Obama]

Sa.