Podcast Summary: IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson

Episode: Tap Into Your Vulnerability with Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson
Date: October 15, 2025
Host: Higher Ground

Overview

In this episode, Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson welcome NBA legends and podcast hosts Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson for a candid discussion on manhood, vulnerability, parenting, and navigating societal challenges as Black men and fathers. This heartfelt, oftentimes humorous conversation delves deep into issues ranging from childhood adversity and broken homes to fatherhood, emotional health, and balancing discipline with love as a parent. The episode also includes the guests’ reflections on their NBA careers, transitions into media, and evolving perspectives on activism and politics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. AAU Basketball and Youth Development

[05:11–07:54]

• The group widely critiques the current state of AAU youth basketball, noting its individualistic, money-driven culture, contrasting it with the intended lessons of teamwork and discipline.
• Matt Barnes: “These kids are just head down and go to the basket, individualized and selfish. The hardest part...is getting these kids all on the same page because they’re all the best on their individual teams, trying to come together for the summer.” [06:08]
• Stephen Jackson: “AAU was a blessing for me growing up in a small town, but now a lot of people are around these kids for the wrong reasons.” [07:33]
• Michelle Obama: “I had always hoped that sports would be that place where kids would learn not just the skills, but ... how to be on a team. It just feels like this whole league is just all about money.” [06:49]

2. Transformation & Identity Post-NBA

[08:46–12:10]

• Both guests discuss being labeled “bad guys” in the NBA and the journey of showing their true, complex selves after retiring.
• Matt Barnes: “We were outcasts or bad guys in the NBA, but it was just what we had to do to survive ... Now, being a trusted voice in the Black community, we don’t take this microphone for granted.” [08:46]
• Stephen Jackson: “People will put you in a certain category ... just cause I play the game harder than you don’t mean I’m a thug or I’m a bad guy ... We just love our teammates.” [09:52]

3. Building ‘All the Smoke’ and Shaping the Podcast Landscape

[12:10–14:31]

• The creation of "All the Smoke" came organically and disrupted perceptions of athlete-led media.
• Matt Barnes: “We didn’t know what a podcast was, but we thought we could more authentically be ourselves ... First season in, we won Sports Podcast of the Year and kind of just flipped the whole industry.” [12:16]
• They see their player perspective as a needed voice: “For so many years, only talking figures [who] had never played were speaking on who we are ... Instead of us allowing ... our brothers and sisters to give their own truths.” [14:31]

4. Childhood, Upbringing, and the Power of Community

[14:31–19:25]

• Both recount challenging upbringings—Jackson raised by his grandmother in a small Texas town; Barnes as a biracial child facing stark racism, family addiction, and cultural alienation.
• Stephen Jackson: “I was lucky I was around a lot of love ... Anytime I tried to get in trouble, my city protected me.” [15:31]
• Matt Barnes: “Growing up a biracial kid in the 80s ... I faced a ton of racism. It started shaping me at an early age of just, okay, this is a cold world now.” [16:33–17:41]

5. Giving Back and Considering Political Activism

[25:02–26:27]

• Stephen Jackson: Visits home less since losing siblings, but sought to open a school and stays involved.
• Matt Barnes: Active in Sacramento advocating on police brutality, cannabis equity, and inspired by Kevin Johnson’s political impact. “At 31, I said by 50, I'm gonna be the mayor of my hometown ... Daddy duty comes first, but maybe one day.” [25:56]

6. Men & Politics: Reluctance and Growth

[27:25–31:03]

• Stephen Jackson speaks about skepticism toward politics, especially after the murder of his friend George Floyd, but is now becoming more open to embracing political activism through learning.
• Matt Barnes: Stresses athletes’ platform power, the importance of voicing one’s position, and how fatherhood motivates civic engagement.

7. Fatherhood: Breaking Cycles & Emotional Presence

[33:32–41:38]

• Matt Barnes & Stephen Jackson describe intentional parenting, blending old-school discipline with open communication—especially important in co-parenting or “broken home” scenarios.
• Matt Barnes: “I think parenting, when we grew up ... was a dictatorship. Now it has to be more of a conversation because of the internet ... You have to bring old-school morals and meet them halfway with this new generation.” [33:34]
• Stephen Jackson: “Just being present from day one for all your kids is what all fathers need to understand. Make your presence felt in your child’s life.” [41:30–41:42]
• Michelle Obama: Emphasizes deliberate parenting; kids “watch everything we do, everything we say.” [35:53]

8. Vulnerability, Emotional Health, and Crying

[46:00–48:43]

• An intimate segment on men’s emotional openness:
  • Michelle Obama (to Matt Barnes): “I know, Matt ... you hadn’t cried.” [46:11]
  • Matt Barnes: “I haven’t. I wanna. I wanna learn. I don’t know ... There’s times where I’m hurt but it’s just like it won't [release].” [46:18, 55:57]
• They discuss how mental health, therapy, and breaking generational patterns are essential for supporting their kids.

9. Failure, Success, and Letting Kids Struggle Safely

[48:43–51:42]

• The importance of letting children experience failure and pain, even in privileged circumstances.
• Michelle Obama: “They weren’t around when we were grinding, struggling ... It becomes more important for us to take them down those emotional paths. Because kids like ours ... have so much pressure.” [48:47–49:46]

10. Love Lives & Self-Reflection After Sports

[51:42–57:52]

• Both reflect on relationship struggles; the need for self-improvement and vulnerability.
• Matt Barnes: “Right now, more is just like, I gotta get little Matt all the way together. That’s going to help grown Matt be a better man, father, owner, friend, and business partner.” [53:19]
• Stephen Jackson: “I don’t regret anything. I’ve done what I was supposed to do ... My heart is always in the right place. So I think that’s how I handle every situation.” [56:36]

Listener Q&A: Raising Kids of Color in New Spaces

[67:35–78:46]
Listener ‘Tony’ asks: How do you raise a Black or mixed-race child in privilege with wisdom from struggle, but not pass on old fears?

• Matt Barnes: “Do I pour that trauma into my kids? ... I think it’s a situation by situation ... You don’t want to throw so much fear in them that they start hating other people, but you don’t want them to be naive.” [68:49–70:37]
• Stephen Jackson: “Know who you are first. Because once you know who you are, can’t nobody knock you off your rocket ... You never have to demean someone to make yourself look better.” [70:37]
• Craig Robinson: “Read the room. Because there are going to be times ... I don’t want them to lose their edge, but ... if you show that edge, you’re gonna get profiled.” [73:19]
• Michelle Obama: Emphasizes parental presence at school, especially for boys of color: “It’s important, especially if you have a Black son, for them to know you ... That may mean go to some of these field trips ... Barack went to every parent-teacher conference their entire life—even in the White House.” [74:29–76:38]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Michelle Obama: “Kids do not care about how much money you have... Kids just want to see you in their lives, just trying.” [79:36]
• Matt Barnes: “There is no blueprint for broken families. You just have to hope that you keep the kids first and you can be cordial enough to make sure their childhood is still what it needs to be.” [38:51]
• Stephen Jackson: “Make your presence felt in your child’s life and maximize the mask out of it.” [41:30]
• On Male Vulnerability:
  • Matt Barnes: “I haven’t [cried]. I want to. I want to learn. ... I’ve touched on emotional intelligence of kids ... but for myself, how to release it, I don’t know.” [46:18, 55:57]
  • Michelle Obama’s story of Barack crying after dropping Malia at college: “And I hear this [sniff]... I had to look over … and the agents are like, 'Sir, are you okay?' ... It’s like, just, man, just do it. Just cry. Let it go. Make it happen.” [54:29]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:11] – AAU basketball & youth sports culture
• [08:46] – Being labeled “bad guys” and their post-NBA transformation
• [12:10] – The origin of “All the Smoke” podcast
• [14:31] – Childhoods and formative influences
• [25:02] – Giving back to hometowns and community activism
• [27:25] – Men’s political engagement, activism, and skepticism
• [33:32] – Parenting philosophies & balancing old/new approaches
• [41:30] – Presence in fatherhood and co-parenting
• [46:00] – Vulnerability, men crying, and emotional health
• [51:42] – Reflections on love, relationships, and self-betterment
• [67:35] – Listener Q&A: “How do you guide kids raised with more privilege?”
• [74:29] – The importance of involved parenting in school for boys of color
• [79:36] – The power of showing up, regardless of circumstance

Tone & Style

The conversation is deeply candid, spirited, and supportive. Michelle and Craig’s warmth puts Matt Barnes and Stephen Jackson at ease, drawing out moments of self-reflection and vulnerability rarely discussed so openly by male athletes. The blend of humor (“Do you have 17 kids?” [36:30]), respect, and honest struggle gives the episode a distinct emotional resonance, making it especially impactful for listeners concerned with fatherhood, self-growth, and generational change.