There's a Right Way to Move Through Old Beefs with Monica

Summary

Podcast Summary

IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson

Episode: There's a Right Way to Move Through Old Beefs with Monica
Date: March 18, 2026
Host: Higher Ground
Guests: Monica (multi-platinum Grammy-winning singer, songwriter, philanthropist, entrepreneur, actress), Bonnie, Crystal

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Episode Overview

This candid, laughter-filled episode of IMO centers on family, forgiveness, authenticity, and growth, highlighted through the personal journey of Monica. Michelle Obama (“Bonnie”) and Craig Robinson (“Crystal”) welcome Monica to discuss her career, family, resilience through adversity, and her reconciliatory tour with Brandy. The conversation delves into generational lessons, redefining strength, and how to know if you’re ready for parenthood. There's also an exploration of forgiveness, survivor's guilt, and the challenges—and beauty—of growing older as a woman.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Monica’s Upbringing and Early Career

• Family Support & No ‘Momager’ Drama (04:00 - 04:43)
  • Monica credits her mother’s approach to letting her explore her musical dream, never forcing her into stardom.
  • Quote: “She used to tell me... if you’re tired, if this doesn’t serve you and who you are and whose you are, come home.” – Monica (04:11)
• Authenticity From the Start (08:15-09:41)
  • Monica has always been herself, even in high-pressure industry meetings as a child.
  • Quote: “I never had to pretend to be someone I wasn’t. I show up as myself just as much today as yesterday.” – Monica (10:13)

2. Transformation Through Adversity

• Vocal Cord Paralysis & the Tour's Emotional Impact (05:46 - 07:36)
  • Monica faced a serious vocal challenge just before her tour, learning about her right vocal cord paralysis two weeks prior.
  • Memorable Moment: She describes the experience as “transformational,” realizing how she had pressured herself for years.
  • Quote: “I just had to get in Anthony’s lap and cry.” – Monica (06:57)

3. Family Dynamics, Forgiveness & Growth

• Kitchen Table Lessons & Parenting Philosophy (17:10 - 21:51)

  • Monica and co-hosts discuss how their family tables shaped their lives and how Monica tries to maintain those traditions.
  • On Divorce & Co-Parenting: Monica reflects on leaving her marriage, protecting her children’s father’s dignity, and finding her softer side.
  • Quote: “I can share about me without talking about you... I don’t have to disrespect you because I’m finding my way.” – Monica (21:06)

• Aggression, Healing, & Maturity (22:09 - 25:02)

  • Monica unpacks her old “aggressive” reputation, how it stems from her father's side, and how she is learning to balance toughness and gentleness.
  • Quote: “I refuse in my mind back then to be played with, but now I refuse to play myself.” – Monica (23:48)

• Father-Daughter Reconciliation (33:07 - 34:22)

  • Monica shares a pivotal story about reconnecting with her father after years of estrangement, highlighting the value of forgiveness and parental accountability.
  • Quote: “His accountability, he took account. That is where forgiveness really transpired.” – Monica (34:58)

4. Career Evolution, Rivalry with Brandy & Touring

• Launching the 'Boy Is Mine' Tour and Making Peace (39:35 - 45:03)

  • Monica reveals that her children and her husband, Anthony, inspired her return to touring.
  • The reconciliation with Brandy was difficult, rooted in minimal past communication and unresolved issues.
  • Quote: “I kept saying we just need to speak because the women we’ve become, I believe they can come together in a completely different capacity. And that’s what you saw.” – Monica (39:56)

• Industry-Fueled Rivalries (45:36 - 47:50)

  • Monica details how media and the music industry pitted her and Brandy against each other as teens, fabricating a rivalry that eventually became real.
  • Quote: “So we’ve taken that bull by the horns because the rivalry should be non existent...” – Monica (47:24)
  • On differences: “Her tonation, her agility... it is Brandi. Me, the strength, that gospel movement... those things are me. They’re not to be compared or dissected.” – Monica (46:48)

• On Whitney Houston as a Mentor (49:01 - 51:06)

  • Monica describes her relationship with Whitney as deeply personal and off-the-record, cherishing moments of normalcy and unconditional support.
  • Quote: “She loved that I was okay with doing nothing. That was something she wanted a lot of.” – Monica (50:23)
  • Whitney’s advice: “Be you, no matter what. Even if it doesn’t feel good to them, it’s gonna feel good to you later.” – Monica (50:43)

5. Lessons on Survivor’s Remorse and Maturity

• Survivor’s Remorse & Self-Care (51:38 - 54:08)
  • Monica wishes she hadn’t carried guilt for her success and poured so much energy into people who didn’t reciprocate.
  • Quote: “But the reality is... some things you’re blessed with, they are for you, they’re not for everyone.” – Monica (52:32)
• Embracing Age and Self-Love (59:00 - 63:54)
  • The group reflects on the liberation that comes with age, dismissing societal pressure to remain youthful.
  • Quote: “I always say this is the happiest I’ve ever been in every area of life.” – Monica (60:25)
  • On aging: “Do you know the alternative to not aging? ...The alternative is dying. ...We’re one of the ones who did. So when do you celebrate that? I say 45.” – Monica (63:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On authenticity:
  “Eventually you will be seen. What we see happening now, because people have so much access, they’re finding out people they thought they adored, they don’t even like.”
  — Monica (10:53)

• On family safety:
  “He comes down to my car and he say, it’s a nice car. You ain’t got nothing in here that ain’t safe. And so he starts loading my car with these weapons of mass destruction.”
  — Monica, on her dad’s protective nature (33:19)

• On letting go:
  “I don’t waste my time in spaces and places where I’m not appreciated. It never dawned on me. Just leave.”
  — Monica (23:48)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Monica on her mom’s support & early career: 04:00 – 04:43
• Vocal injury, personal transformation: 05:46 – 07:36
• Being authentic in a demanding industry: 08:15 – 10:13
• Family dynamics, co-parenting philosophy: 17:10 – 21:51
• Reconciliation with her father: 33:07 – 34:22
• Starting the tour & rebuilding with Brandy: 39:35 – 41:09
• Explaining the origin and impact of the Brandy “beef”: 45:36 – 47:50
• Mentorship from Whitney Houston: 49:01 – 51:06
• Advice on survivor’s remorse: 51:38 – 54:08
• Embracing maturity and self-confidence in her 40s: 59:00 – 63:54
• Listener question: Is motherhood right for me? 64:51 – 70:54

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Listener Question Segment: Am I Ready to Be a Mom?

(64:51 – 71:59)

• A listener, nearing 34 and feeling social pressure to have children, seeks advice on whether it’s a true desire or just external influences.

• Monica emphasizes prayer, journaling, and the gravity of parenting as a permanent, selfless commitment.

• Quote: “Parenting is not done well if you are your first thought... If you wake up in the morning and your first thought is you, you’re not ready.” – Monica (66:39)

• Both hosts underscore the importance of waiting for clarity, healing childhood trauma before parenting, and choosing the right partner—advising it’s totally acceptable to remain child-free if that’s true to oneself.

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Tone & Style

• The conversation is warm, supportive, and deeply honest, mixing levity with hard-won wisdom.
• Monica is open and self-reflective, with Michelle/Bonnie and Craig/Crystal both offering relatability, gentle challenges, and affirmations.
• The episode is rich with laughter, personal anecdotes, and a welcoming “family table” vibe.

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Conclusion

This episode of IMO delivers raw insight into overcoming industry pressures, embracing one’s roots, and the process of reconciling with past “beefs” and old wounds. Monica’s journey offers a roadmap for honesty, evolving strength, setting boundaries—and finding joy and confidence at every stage of life. The show closes with an empowering call for self-reflection regarding parenthood, stressing the importance of intentional choices over social expectations.

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For more advice or to submit your own question, visit imopod.com.

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Transcript

[Monica]

And I went and saw my dad and we started laughing and talking that night.

[Bonnie]

In your new car.

[Monica]

Yes, in that conversation. And he comes down to my car and he say, it's a nice car. You ain't got nothing in here that ain't safe. And so he starts loading my car with these weapons of mass destruction. And he's like, I was thinking you

[Crystal]

were talking about a first aid kid.

[Bonnie]

No, I knew what you were talking about. Didn't you just hear?

[Monica]

Weren't you just here for the first

[Bonnie]

part of the conversation?

[Crystal]

Holy cow.

[Bonnie]

See, this is hj.

[Monica]

This is hj.

[Bonnie]

A first aid kid.

[Monica]

This is not. This is not.

[Bonnie]

Coach thought that he was gonna put a.

[Monica]

This is not coach. This is not coach. This is hj.

[Bonnie]

This episode is brought to you by Theraflu and Shipt.

[Monica]

Hey, little girl.

[Bonnie]

Hey, uncle Jean.

[Crystal]

You like my jean?

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

You know, this is called the Canadian tux.

[Bonnie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Crystal]

I didn't know that until today.

[Bonnie]

Yeah. You're gonna know a lot about fashion when this is over and done with.

[Crystal]

I really like this. This is very comfortable.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, it's a good. It's not a stiff denim either.

[Crystal]

Very relaxed. But what we excited today we do,

[Bonnie]

we talk about fashion. Beauty, talent, grace, honesty. We got Monica.

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Bonnie]

In the house. So excited.

[Crystal]

You guys know each other so well.

[Bonnie]

We've just recently met. We'll talk when we bring Monica on. Okay. But this is gonna be the first time that I really get to like go into her brain.

[Crystal]

Okay. All right, I'm ready.

[Bonnie]

See what's going on. So we're gonna have a really good conversation. I'm so excited that she has made time to come and be with us.

[Crystal]

And yeah, she's coming off her tour

[Bonnie]

that she is just a total delight. And she's a smart, smart woman, so. But let's do our proper introduction.

[Crystal]

Okay. Well, Monica is a multi platinum Grammy award winning singer, songwriter, philanthropist, entrepreneur and actress who has sold more than 30 million records worldwide. She made history with back to back number one hits and a record 13 weeks atop the Billboard Hot 100 with the Boy is Mine, her Grammy winning duet with Brandi. In 2024, she and Brandi joined Ariana Grande for the Grammy nominated remix of the Boy is Mine, earning the duo a new nomination 25 years after their original Grammy win. Most recently, Brandi and Monica embarked on their historic sold out North American the Boy is Mine tour. Which I think you went to, didn't you?

[Bonnie]

Yes, yes, we'll talk about that.

[Crystal]

Marking a full circle moment 27 years after the song's cultural breakthrough and right off of her tour. Monica, come on in.

[Bonnie]

Monica in the house.

[Monica]

Hi. Which way do we go? Hi, Bonnie. How are you? I'm doing so good.

[Crystal]

Welcome. Thank you for being here.

[Bonnie]

And let me get to her chair.

[Crystal]

How close you want to scooch?

[Monica]

Close, close. Yes. There we are right there. Yes, indeed.

[Bonnie]

Welcome to I Am O Honey Bun.

[Monica]

I love it.

[Bonnie]

I love it.

[Monica]

You know they call me Mo.

[Bonnie]

Do they call you Mo?

[Crystal]

We got Mo's at the table.

[Monica]

Two Mo's.

[Bonnie]

Oh, my goodness. Because I heard Mo out there, and I'm looking, it's like, who needs this?

[Monica]

They were yelling at me. They were definitely yelling. They have been calling me Mo since I probably was about 8 years old.

[Bonnie]

Really?

[Monica]

Yes, really.

[Bonnie]

Because your first cousin is on your team.

[Monica]

Yes, she is.

[Bonnie]

Yeah. So she brought family, right, to all this. Has she been with you? And so your first cousin's name, who, is?

[Monica]

Melinda.

[Bonnie]

Melinda, yes. Has she been with you throughout your career?

[Monica]

Since the beginning. Since the beginning. I was only 12 when they signed me.

[Bonnie]

Yep.

[Monica]

And my mother was employed at Delta, and she was like, listen, this is set up for a pension and a lot of other stuff when this is over.

[Bonnie]

Yes, we're not messing this up.

[Monica]

Yes, we're not messing this up. But she believed that I should explore my dreams and that I should see what this could really be. But she didn't feel that she should be the one on the road. She never wanted to be a momager. She never wanted to be in front of the camera. And she used to tell me, when. When you're tired, if this doesn't serve you and who you are and whose you are, come home. And I love that. That was always there because I never felt forced. I sang because I loved it, you know? So it was a great way for me to start.

[Crystal]

How prescient of your mom to be able to be in that space with you at that point in time, because that was. That's not. That's not normal.

[Monica]

It's not normal. But I wasn't a normal kid at all. And now I have birthed a normal version of myself. So.

[Bonnie]

Are you talking about your baby?

[Monica]

I am.

[Bonnie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica]

I am all 5 foot, 8 inches of her at only 12 years old.

[Bonnie]

Yes.

[Monica]

Very similar to you. She is gorgeous.

[Bonnie]

She is really a beautiful young lady. I got to meet her backstage. When we met. I got to see you on Tour in D.C. at Capital One Arena. The concert was amazing.

[Monica]

Thank you.

[Bonnie]

You know, I mean, you all are singers.

[Monica]

You.

[Bonnie]

You know, you're not real singers. Your real voice. No buffering. No. You know, and so I knew that it was gonna be amazing, but it was really. It was really empowering.

[Monica]

I mean, it was so challenging to start because I found out that I had vocal paralysis in the right vocal cord.

[Bonnie]

So what does that mean?

[Monica]

That means it should be moving, and it's not. And now I have all these major obligations, and this is when you want to be in the best shape of your life. And we've been trying to figure out what was happening for quite some time. Things started to sound very different. The way I hear them, the way they would come out. And it was after I had surgery initially for my sinuses.

[Crystal]

And this was before the tour?

[Monica]

Well, we didn't find out why this was happening until two weeks before the tour.

[Bonnie]

Oh, wow. So you were already experiencing what was.

[Monica]

I had been experiencing it for, but Dr. Renee Gupta is the one that really figured out what was happening, because I've always been able to do whatever I wanted to do vocally, and I started realizing that these things aren't happening, so I had to learn it all over. And we did it in a. It was one day where it was just tears. For me, it was just tears. I just had to get in Anthony's lap and cry.

[Bonnie]

It must have been frightening, too, right?

[Monica]

Very much so. And not even the idea of the judgment of it all, but because I hold myself to a standard that I did not realize that I was so hard on myself all of these years until this moment. I'm 45 years old. I didn't realize that I ever put any form of pressure. You know, I'm more of a roundaway girl. I do my own thing, my own way. I realized you have been placing this level of pressure on yourself for a very long time, and it was definitely there when you have 32 cities that are expecting to have the night of their life. Wow.

[Bonnie]

Wow. So this tour was transformational for you in some real personal ways. Have you talked about this before? Because, I mean, we didn't know.

[Monica]

No.

[Bonnie]

Okay.

[Monica]

No. And the thing is, it's. No one asked, you know, we are the last people that people actually care how you're doing.

[Bonnie]

Really? Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica]

This is not a ploy for pity. I am so used to it when you start at 12, especially during a time where perfection was something that was pushed. What I love about now is people can just be themselves. You see them whether it's online or out in public. Back then, you hit a lot.

[Bonnie]

You had to be. You had to Present. You had to.

[Monica]

They wanted you to present. And I became noted for not presenting, just showing up and doing me. And we talked about my album title, Ms. Thang, my first album. Dallas would look over and say, this is a great song, but it's your turn. Go in there and see what Ms. Thane says. And I'm, you know, sitting there.

[Bonnie]

That's right.

[Monica]

Yes. With this very little information oftentimes about who was who. Because my first time singing for Mr. Davis, we go into Clive's office. I'm 12, 13 years old, and it's like a board meeting. And everyone is dressed to impress and on their best behavior. And I remember being in the hallway saying, they too still. And he goes, dallas does this. He goes. He had on some shades. He goes, baby girl, you're not in Atlanta. We're in New York City. And this is Clive Davis office. Okay. And I go in the office. Clive who?

[Bonnie]

He's still stiff.

[Monica]

I go in the office and I start to sing all between the chairs.

[Bonnie]

Wow.

[Monica]

All in people's faces. But that's who I am. And you want to be who you're. I feel like we are all made intentionally to be different, designed different by the most perfect creator. Right. So in all my imperfections, I'm in there just singing. And then they stand up and clap. And Dallas is like, whew, we made it. We made it. Get her out of here.

[Bonnie]

But that's changed their mind.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Crystal]

So now that you're here, now when you look back on that, how did you feel about little Monica doing that?

[Monica]

I am glad that I didn't know any better.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Because I never had to pretend to be someone I wasn't. I show up as myself just as much today as yesterday. Yesteryear. All of the time, I am me.

[Bonnie]

And isn't it easier to keep up with that? I mean, people ask me this. You seem so authentic. Who you are seems to be who you are. And my feeling is that's easier to keep up with. Because if I have to be one way, giving a speech in one way, talking to Congress in a different way, when I go home, it's hard to keep up with all that.

[Monica]

And eventually you will be seen.

[Bonnie]

Yes.

[Monica]

What we see happening now, because people have so much access, they're finding out people they thought they adored, they don't even like.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, that's right.

[Monica]

If you liked me then, you love me now.

[Bonnie]

That's right.

[Monica]

Because you're just getting more of me. And it's the me that there always was. You don't have to keep up an act.

[Bonnie]

So where did you get that confidence so young? I mean, I can have that conversation. I've had it. You know, I mean, I grew up in a household where we had parents that liked who we were.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

You know, they weren't ever trying to make us different. They were delighted with our voices and our sense of humor and who we were. And for us, it started there because, as my mother would say, you don't have to worry about what people think of you out there. Come home to be liked. We like you here.

[Monica]

Yes, I do believe my family and where I'm from, where I'm from, it's okay to just be you. My mother and father are from Noonan, Georgia, and I was also raised by my stepfather, who was an incredible man. He's also a pastor. So being a preacher's kid, you know, we either act out and act up or we get in line. And I did a little bit of both. You know, I did a little bit of both. And being unapologetically myself but always having a safe space to return was what made me so confident. Even when I read things about myself that are disparaging, I'm still okay.

[Bonnie]

Yeah. Because you're like, I know who I am.

[Monica]

I know exactly who I am. And those people that need to know me will. Yeah.

[Crystal]

This episode is brought to you by Theraflu, makers of Fast Acting Cold and flu relief. Since 2021, Theraflu's Rest and Recover Fund has provided more than a million dollars to families to help offset the cost of a sick day. We had, IMO listeners share stories about how paid sick time has impacted their lives and and wanted to share a few of them with you. Many of our listeners are a part of the sandwich generation, meaning they are responsible for taking care of their kids and also their parents or in laws. We had one listener share that they have had to take sick time for their own recovery and then also simultaneously care for their grandmother, which made it hard for them to fully rest and get better. I think this is something we both can relate to with caring for our mom. And even now, for me, that my in laws are living close by.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, that's for sure. I mean, but I'd say that we are way more blessed than our mom was because we had resources. I mean, this is, I think, what Theraflu understands. I mean, being a part of the sandwich generation when you don't have the resources and support means something totally different. We saw that with our mom because, as many of you know, we lived in our home with our great aunt and great uncle as they aged and our mother was in that sandwich position where we saw her caring for our aunt and uncle as they aged while we were still pretty young. And I just remember those times her being so exhausted. Not just physically exhausted, but just exhausted by the worry of all what turned out to be 24 hour care. It's too much for a generation to bear, but thanks to Theraflu and their work, there's support out there.

[Crystal]

And there's another listener who shared that she is a single mom who doesn't have paid sick time. She said that she has no choice but to work when sick because she can't afford not to.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, that's for sure.

[Crystal]

Theraflu knows that resting and recovering when sick can be especially difficult for parents and caregivers who aren't just responsible for themselves, but also the loved ones they care for. That's why Theraflu remains committed to continuing to fight for paid sick leave for all Americans because no one should have to choose between their health and their job. Learn more or help someone apply for the [e-mail] right to recover working on your mental health doesn't happen all at once. It happens in moments, one conversation, one deep breath, one session at a time. Growth Therapy makes it easier to begin As a coach and an athlete, I've always believed taking care of your mind is part of taking care of your overall game. You train consistently, you build the right support around you, and you give yourself space to improve. Therapy can be part of that routine. Whether it's your first time in therapy or your 50th. Grow makes it simple to find a therapist who actually fits you. They connect you with thousands of licensed therapists across the US with virtual or in person sessions, including nights and weekends. You can search by insurance, specialty, identity or availability and start in as little as two days. No subscriptions, no long term commitments, just pay per session on your time. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Grow accepts over 100 insurance plans, including Medicaid in some states. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.com IMO today to get started. That's growththerapy.com IMO growththerapy.com IMO availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

[Bonnie]

So what was your kitchen table like at home? I mean, what was it like to sit around your house as a kid or you as a kid? As a kid and then and how is that? How have you carried that on to your. The table that you. You are in charge of?

[Monica]

Anthony and I have done a lot for it to remain the way it was as a kid.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

For him, it's very different because he grew up as an orphan, but he also.

[Bonnie]

And Anthony is your husband?

[Monica]

Yes. He's incredible. He was my friend for 14 years first. And I always say that is the one thing I missed. I don't feel like I missed a lot, but in that friendship, I missed all the other things we could be.

[Crystal]

Wait, explain that. So you missed him being a partner?

[Monica]

No, I missed that he could be.

[Bonnie]

That he could be. Because he was just a home.

[Crystal]

Because he was.

[Monica]

Yes, he was. Like, he opened my emergency contact. He was. And maybe it was just that I respected him so much. You know how you hear people say anything other than the friendship with friends can tarnish it?

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Maybe that's what I was more afraid of because I told him everything about me.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

So did Anthony. Was he thinking or hoping that there could be something back then?

[Monica]

You know, that's been a debate at the kitchen table we spoke of. Because I have an aunt that believes. Yes. And then I have a mom that's like, no. I think you both just implicitly trusted each other and didn't believe that that could be in a relationship. And you missed it.

[Crystal]

What does Anthony say?

[Monica]

He says he missed it, but he was always very protective. He is also.

[Bonnie]

How long have you been married?

[Monica]

Well, okay, so he and I have been where we are now. Three years.

[Bonnie]

Three years.

[Monica]

The friendship was 14 years.

[Bonnie]

Yes.

[Monica]

Right. So 14 years of a lot of tears on my end. And he was focused on work.

[Bonnie]

He's watching you. He's watching you deal with knuckleheads.

[Monica]

He's watching me navigate.

[Bonnie]

Okay, I said that. That came out of my mouth.

[Monica]

He's watching me, not Monica's mouth.

[Bonnie]

I don't know anybody else. I'm just saying.

[Monica]

Yes, he is.

[Bonnie]

That y' all didn't keep her. So something happened.

[Monica]

You know, I'll. I'll tell you what actually happened in Is. I think I grew to know me even better. And I stopped trying to fix other things and other people. I think say that slow. Yes. Being the child of a preacher, you

[Bonnie]

think that you can save everybody, you

[Monica]

can be good in everything, and you can save anything and anyone from even themselves. I met and was in relationships with some really great people, but maybe not great for me. Doesn't make them bad people.

[Bonnie]

That's right.

[Monica]

Just not right for me. And when I learned to sit with myself and I did that throughout the entirety of COVID I believe I ended up divorced about 2018. 2019. And just sitting with myself. But I was still in fight or flight. I was still trying to save people I knew even from my past. Going back. I can help them. I can help Monica. Help yourself. Get back into the word. Focus solely on your children. At this time, we were living in a hotel because I literally packed up from my marital home and said, I'm going to start over. God is speaking to me and I can hear him clearly. I'm not going to ignore anything that's being said. We moved into the hotel and shortly after Covid happens and no one knows what it is. So now we're in this.

[Bonnie]

So you moved out before it became a thing?

[Monica]

Yes, absolutely. And I am very big on protecting my past and people in it. I can share about me without talking about you.

[Bonnie]

Exactly.

[Monica]

Without being negative towards you. You are the father of my children by biological nature. However, I don't have to disrespect you because I'm finding my way. So I never spoke on it. I didn't even. I was getting divorced. It was not necessary, not to me. And that also comes from the kitchen table. My mom, she never spoke negatively of my father. This is what we're doing and this is why. And it was up to us to listen, to learn to navigate the way that she does takes a lot of God, a lot of patience and a lot of respect for yourself and the other person. Because I do come from being a lot more aggressive. I found the softer side of things.

[Bonnie]

Now when you say, what does that mean? Because that means different things to different people. And I hate when people take passion and confidence for aggressiveness. So I just want to know, how do you define that? Because you use that term.

[Monica]

Mine was definitely aggressive. Ok, I'm not going to.

[Crystal]

There's no mistake here.

[Monica]

There's no mistake in it. I refuse, refuse to attempt to make myself look better.

[Crystal]

We appreciate you trying to look out for Monica.

[Bonnie]

Just want to make sure. Okay, sir.

[Monica]

I was positively aggressive. And whenever I was hurt, I reacted with aggression. That is where songs like so Gone, Kick down the Door, those are all real things.

[Bonnie]

Just like that. It was a door kicked down.

[Monica]

Now those are 25 year old things versus 45. Yes, but they were things and I own them. Yeah, but you know, my mom was very gentle. She didn't raise her voice. I've never heard her curse.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, but where did you come from?

[Monica]

My daddy. Okay, I Definitely my father. I definitely am my father's child. I was taken to the fields at 2 years old, given a 22, and taught to shoot out in the free reins. And my father was very different than my mother. And I think that balances what you get with me. I didn't know how to balance them until later years. And so when I would be hurt, that's how I would respond. And that's what I was known for. Hence some of the nicknames, the Gunaka. And all these names. Now, I didn't give myself.

[Bonnie]

She doesn't know what that means.

[Crystal]

I don't. I don't.

[Monica]

Awesome. I love that for me. So we have a fresh start.

[Crystal]

Yes. Yeah, we do. Because I'm like, who could come up with that name for you?

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Bonnie]

This was her younger self.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

But it give him so to fill him. Because I know what you're talking about.

[Monica]

But I refuse in my mind back then to be played with, but now I refuse to play myself. I don't waste my time in spaces and places where I'm not appreciated. It never dawned on me. Just leave. You know, that is still. That I can fix it. It can work. There is good there. We can make this happen.

[Bonnie]

And you match that with an aggressive personality. Someone who you're not gonna. You're not gonna just give me anything, but you're there taking it.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

You're there trying to fix it.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

But yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica]

Yes. I pray that my daughter sees me navigate in this way. Because even though my mom was the most amazing example, I chose within myself to respond the way I did to things. Because I always thought she was too nice.

[Bonnie]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Monica]

Now I understand what she was doing. Now I get it.

[Bonnie]

And your siblings, you have a brother. What was his personality? Cause brother, sister, I would tend to be. If there was a gunakut title between us.

[Crystal]

I don't like it.

[Bonnie]

It would have been me.

[Monica]

I didn't like it when I first heard it. And I think it was meant to initially as an insult. And it was probably an insult. But I accept who I was and who I am because I'm not who I used to be. So I can laugh at it and we make jokes about it. But your brother is the more now my brother is. It's zero tolerance over there. Nothing's changed.

[Bonnie]

This is Mr. Nice Guy right here.

[Crystal]

Yeah, well, growing up, I was. And then once I had kids, that's when I developed my edge, I think. I think I was. She tells all the time. They used to call me she used to call me H.J. for Honest John. Cause I was really a nice kid.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Crystal]

And then once I had children, that's when my edge started to build.

[Bonnie]

But his edge is even, smooth. It's still smooth compared to what my mother, we would consider an edge.

[Monica]

That's my mother. That's my mother.

[Bonnie]

The only time he trips me out, he's a coach and has been a coach.

[Monica]

That has to be different.

[Bonnie]

Yeah. Coach Robinson. I'm like, oh, my God, stop yelling at those babies. Why are you yelling at them so much?

[Crystal]

She was so mad at me when she first saw me coach. We used to. When I was coaching, we used to visit Washington D.C. every Thanksgiving and do a service day, have dinner at the White House. Thanksgiving with my whole team. And then we play a game on Friday and go back home. And the first time we did it, we played at Howard University. So I took my team, Howard University. And we're playing the game and we're losing. And I am screaming at my players because they're not.

[Bonnie]

And we're there, the president and the first lady. And I'm like, oh, and they had just had dinner at. You know, they were just over and with us, these poor little boys. Now they're all 6 11, but they're babies, right?

[Crystal]

And she couldn't believe I was yelling at them.

[Bonnie]

Yelling at them like that.

[Monica]

Really?

[Crystal]

Yeah.

[Monica]

With it. That comes with it.

[Crystal]

Thank you.

[Monica]

Yes, thank you. That comes with it. I have a 17, almost 18 year old that's at OTE.

[Bonnie]

Okay. Yeah.

[Monica]

You were telling me that is an elite high school.

[Crystal]

It's elite. And for the. For our listeners who aren't on the sports tip, tell them you ha.

[Monica]

You. You.

[Crystal]

You can't just show up at ote. You have to be recruited there.

[Bonnie]

Tell them that's my bang.

[Crystal]

It is a pathway to the NBA.

[Monica]

So listen, I. My mother sits a few rows behind me and pretends that she did not give birth to me the entire time because I am. You know, there were times where, listen, I'm playing both roles, so I am yelling to the top of my lungs and I passable.

[Bonnie]

Take your shot. Take your shot. Wow, you reffing. Are you reffing, too? You coaching and reffing?

[Monica]

The refs don't like to see me coming, okay? There's a reason. There's a reason. But when I see him, I see that he believes in himself. I remind him that he can do anything and he chose the number one for a reason. So I always remind him of that very loudly from the Side. So I understand you, coach. All right, I'm with you, coach. All right, I'm with you.

[Bonnie]

I'm with you.

[Monica]

I support you. I support you.

[Bonnie]

So just to walk a bit more through your career trajectory, I think everybody who knows Monica knows that story. But how did you manage as a 12 year old? You know, coming from what was a. You know, it was a. You came from a grounded home.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

You know, with a family that loved you, and you went into an industry that we learn every year how crazy and soul sucking it can be. How was it for you to retain your. Your confidence through that process? How did you do that as a 12 year old? And what were some of those challenges that you faced early on that you had to really kind of wrestle with as young as 12?

[Monica]

I have always said that my biological father, Mc Arnold Jr. He was stern and assertive. He did not play with outsiders. He was very, you know, very loving towards us. But I spent a lot of years upset with him after my parents divorce.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

The forgiveness came from me realizing I needed everything that he and his family showed me because that side of who I am is what keeps me on this side of the business. My mom was always loving, always godly, always in the word, always helping, always teaching. If she had it, you had it. But my father, you had to earn space around him. And I used to sometimes just be looking at him like, what?

[Bonnie]

Can you chill out?

[Monica]

Could it be? Yes. I realized I needed him.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Everything that I thought he wasn't was with purpose.

[Bonnie]

What did he think of your career, your pursuit? Your mother? Was encouraging, supportive? Yes. How did your father feel about it? And were you close to him? Did you continue to be? I know you were mad at him.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

But did that mad mean you weren't in contact with him?

[Monica]

So from about 12 to 15? No, not very much. But my brother, they are like a set of twins. And I remember getting my first car.

[Bonnie]

That you must have bought yourself, actually. No, no. So tell.

[Monica]

So Dallas was. Dallas Austin is who signed me. And he took on that fatherly role very early because he saw what was happening with my dad and I. And he used to always tell me, baby girl, he loves you. He's moving in the way. He knows how he's giving you. He's trying to equip you with things you may not understand. But he would always let me lean in and on him. And so he bought me this car and I drove all night and I drove over to Brandywine that night.

[Bonnie]

What, you just driving around the city

[Monica]

just Driving around the city, around the block. They give me this party at the Ritz Carlton. And then I drive over about one in the morning because my Aunt Evelyn is. She's actually who I look and speak like. She didn't play either. She was very much. She used to read the comics, and she would send us to play her number. And she would have her little pistol in there under her newspaper when she would be going through the Archie comics to decide what numbers she would play.

[Bonnie]

Cause it was based on the Archie comics.

[Monica]

She would base it on the Archie comics. No.

[Bonnie]

Well, there you go. It's a theory. It's an approach, It's a system.

[Monica]

I don't recall her winning, you know. She won in life because we respected her to the max. And when she said something, that's what it was. If she said, get in here, little girl. I was always little girl. My son was Little Feather. Everybody had a name, and I was most like her. And I drove so she could see the car. But she worked the night shift, so I knew she would be up drinking coffee, smoking a cigarette, and so I just went there. And then she told me to go see my dad. And that was it.

[Bonnie]

And you hadn't seen him?

[Monica]

I had not seen him for a minute, no.

[Crystal]

And what precipitated her to say that?

[Monica]

I don't know. And she's deceased now. I can't ask. Wow. But she told me to go see my dad, and I went and saw my dad. And we started laughing and talking that night.

[Bonnie]

In your new car?

[Monica]

Yes, in that conversation. And he comes down to my car and he say, it's a nice car. You ain't got nothing in here that ain't safe. And so he starts loading my car with these weapons of mass destruction. And he's like, I was thinking you

[Crystal]

were talking about a first aid kid.

[Bonnie]

I knew what you were talking about. Didn't you just hear.

[Monica]

Weren't you just here for the first

[Bonnie]

part of the conversation? See, this is H.J.

[Monica]

this is HJ.

[Bonnie]

A first date.

[Monica]

This is not. This is not coach.

[Bonnie]

You thought that he was gonna put a.

[Monica]

This is not coach. This is not Coach. This is H.J. you know? And from that moment on, it's been the way we are now. And my father is a double amputee now. And my brother, I watch them. And it just. It does something to me because the way they take care of each other, you just don't know what the end of your story will be like. And so when I think about six and now, it's just worlds apart.

[Bonnie]

You know, our mom always says this. It's like too many kids waste time being angry at their parents when, you know, as you grow up, you realize your parents are human and you understand the context of who they are, good or bad. I mean, all the stories don't end as beautifully as yours did with your father. I mean, a lot of people continue to be disappointed, let down, but mom used to always talk about, you know, kids having a level of empathy for what their parents could.

[Monica]

But, you know, I think it's hard for a lot of kids. I mentor a lot of young and I think one of the big issues is that parents have trouble being accountable. That my father's apology to me and my mother most off because I saw the way you treated her. And part of my issue with you had nothing to do with things you did to me. Things you did to. Yeah, his accountability, he took account. That is where forgiveness really transpired. I said one day to my oldest son, Rodney, I said, I failed you with my choices. He said, mama, you don't fail me. You lift me. Everything I do in every session, every song, it's because of you. I believe because of you. He said, how you think Melo play the way he does. What are you talking about? You failed me. But he. It's just me wanting to be accountable because my choices affect you. Them coming first is how I feel after the storm. That was an album title, but it was really my life and those moments or new life or co red. It's a state of emergency over here for me, so I step away. I haven't had an album in a decade now for that very reason. Now it's pause, stop. What do we need as a family? It doesn't always make the fans as happy.

[Bonnie]

Well, but you know, but the kids are.

[Crystal]

Our family is starting to plan for trips this summer. Aside from all the basketball travel you've heard me talk about, we want to make time for a family vacation and we're hoping to travel internationally this year. Maybe Spain, France or Italy because we really love to eat and Italian food is our favorite. We also want to invite our older children and their families to come with us. If they all say yes, we're talking about at least eight adult sized people and their luggage, so we could use the extra space. Traveling with family is so much better. When staying at homes on Airbnb, there's more space and it's so nice that we get to explore new neighborhoods and cities thanks to hosts who open their homes so families like ours can explore. And boy do we like to explore. Thanks to our friends at Shipt for sponsoring this episode With Shipt Same Day Delivery I never worry about how I'm gonna get my shopping done for a few reasons. With Shipt you can order same day delivery on everything you need, groceries, decor, gifts and so much more from many of your favorite stores like Safeway, Albertsons, Michaels, Target and petsmart, as well as local favorites exclusive to your area. Shoppers with Shipt are known for their exceptional attention to detail and quality service, so you can rest assured that your items are shopped and delivered with the utmost care. And with an annual Shipt membership, you can place as many Shipt orders as you want, pay $0 in delivery fees with orders over $35, unlock exclusive deals, and even request your favorite shoppers to shop for your future orders. There's a few items that I am really picky about at the grocery store. I like my sardines, but I want King Oscar sardines only. I don't want any substitutes. Also, I'm a big fan of sliced cheddar cheese, but I want the deli to use the number one blade. One and a half is too thick. In addition, I'm particular about my potato chips so when I use shipped to get my favorites, I know I'll get what I need. And since you can text one on one with your shopper, they can help you get exactly what you need down to the brand size, dietary restriction, even the preferred shade of your bananas. And that is extremely important in the Robinson household. When we make our shakes, download the app or order [e-mail] that's S H IPT.com. So given that then what was the inspiration for doing this tour?

[Monica]

My children were my greatest inspiration and Anthony reminding me that I now have the support to do it also inspired me because I'm not doing it alone. And then Brandi and I had a conversation that really was the catalyst for the change that was needed for us to do this. So many people wanted us to do it, but it was too much unresolved and we had not spoken at all. When we do ourselves, we had not seen each other in almost seven or eight years. That's not the way you do a co headlining tour. I kept saying we just need to speak because the women we've become, I believe they can come together in a completely different capacity. And that's what you saw.

[Bonnie]

Do you. Can you share some of that? I know Brandi's not here. Brandi, love you. Hugs to you. I know she couldn't make being here and shouts go out. So I don't wanna ask you anything that feels like it's a private conversation, but if there are aspects to what the content of that was for you.

[Monica]

You know what? I'm very protective of her. Yes. And it happened without me.

[Bonnie]

And I could. Behind scenes, I could tell, you know, I mean. Yes, I could tell in our greet. And, I mean, I get it. You know, a lot was required of her. Yeah. Yes.

[Monica]

See, I did what I wanted.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Whether it was good or bad, I did what I wanted. She did the right thing. All the time.

[Bonnie]

All the time.

[Monica]

And that's heavy. That's a heavy load. And she loves for things to be perfect. She challenges herself. All that dancing you saw. It was her.

[Bonnie]

Yes.

[Monica]

She's telling me it was her. It was her.

[Bonnie]

Because, y', all, if you didn't go to the concert. Cause. Are you all extending. Cause you talked about.

[Monica]

We've not decided.

[Bonnie]

Okay, well, they decided. I know that there's a request. You all have dates. Your promoters told me that.

[Monica]

Did they?

[Bonnie]

Oh, they came up. They were like, we trying to get them to get more dates. I was like, okay, I don't know if I can do anything, but if

[Monica]

she wants to, I'll do it. If she wants to.

[Bonnie]

But it is a show, right? You all are moving. And those dancers, the male dancers, they were so good.

[Monica]

She chose each one of them. Her and Frank Gaston are very close. They got together, they and I. Yeah.

[Bonnie]

You were like, I don't do all this moving.

[Monica]

No.

[Bonnie]

Monica's like, I like to sit on a chair and tell a story. And Brandi wanted smoke. You said the smoke and the fire and the light and that. And you.

[Monica]

Yes, I was okay. This is why I feel like. So some of the fans started calling us Bronica. Okay. So Veronica is the group name, right? Veronica. We are. We compliment each other.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

It's a marriage. So she had a lot of ideas. The opening, all her.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, all her.

[Monica]

The Boy Is Mine, the song. All her. Rodney Jerkins, LaShawn Daniels, Fred. It was them. They called me. I was in Atlanta doing whatever I was doing.

[Bonnie]

You were yelling at the bleachers.

[Monica]

No, I didn't have kids yet.

[Crystal]

No.

[Bonnie]

I was about 16 or 17. Oh, you mean the original.

[Monica]

The original song was all. It was all her. That all brought us to this moment. Got it. And so for me, what I bring is the visuals. I want the true story to be there. I was like, at some point, they need to hear our voices, not just the Songs. What was happening in our lives. Let's not avoid the tragedies and what made us who we are as women. Let's talk about our children and what transpired. Let's make sure the children are a part of it. I'm big on the fashion. She let me. She's like, okay, you have your way there, but you're gonna dance.

[Bonnie]

But you come down those stairs, you're

[Monica]

gonna hit this right here. We're gonna snap and pause and we're gonna. And I let it happen. But that's the trust. Because she also trusts me to protect her when it's not okay. You know, we were in Chicago and she wasn't. She hadn't been feeling well. A lot of anxiety. A lot of things were transpiring. Things were happening. You know, when a show starts those first two to three weeks, you are flushing through millions of dollars worth of ideas and technical things.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica]

It's not going to be what you had the opportunity to see right away. You know, if you think about it, I absolutely adore Beyonce and Usher. You think about the first shows, whether it was the car in the air or something. Whatever happens, you have to fight through those things. And even when she's not feeling well and I feel this thing come over me that's like, step off.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Monica]

Give her a moment. She's giving you 30 years of perfection. Acting, singing, dancing, all of these things. She's given it to you, so give her some grace. I'm not even asking for the grace for myself.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

It just happened.

[Bonnie]

Was that part of the conversation that you all had? That sort of grown woman talk?

[Monica]

No, no, it wasn't. Our conversation was strictly about what we felt for one another. And how much of that had that transpired back then. That had nothing to do with either of us. That was all our conversation was about.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

So, Monica, can you talk a little bit about. For our listeners who don't know what you all went through early on, can you talk a little bit about it? Because I just came to know this story, and I was appalled that the industry and the fans. And the fans. And however it happened, you guys got pitted against each other without you even having any kind of real beef. Beef or any. It just was fabricated.

[Monica]

It was fabricated, but things have a way of manifesting themselves. Oh.

[Crystal]

Oh, yeah.

[Monica]

Just as the good does, the bad does. And that's really what happened. And when you think about it, it's not like we grew up with one another. I was in Atlanta, she was in California. We weren't even near each other to have a reason to have issues. But you see, it still happens. Now, the divisiveness can be so bizarre. If you see us share this stage. Why would you come to this concert and act as if you're here for one and not the other? Or I'd rather this one. Or I'd rather. Well, there's one option with this ticket, ma'. Am. This is the way it is. But we didn't have those strengths as youths to say this is what we should do. And what happens is, once that train began to move, it was more like a freight train, not a trolley. It was in motion and we couldn't stop it. And it became a very real thing. So we've taken that bull by the horns because the rivalry should be non existent. Listen, I do not compare myself vocally to her or her to me. Her tonation, her agility, the rasp, the way she does things. It is Brandi, me, the strength, that gospel movement you hear even when I'm singing a love song, those things are me. They're not to be compared or dissected. What makes the Boy Is Mine so great is that the two of us are so different. But we had no idea that the song would fuel people's ideals as well. And so then we would wake up, morning shows, there would be skits about us, there would be fights that they would create. It was all in jokes and fun, and it became very real for us.

[Bonnie]

And you all were how old at this time?

[Monica]

I was 17, she was 18.

[Bonnie]

You know, babies, babies, you know.

[Monica]

So if you imagine this was our high school. So you know how the two popular girls get pitted against each other in a high school, that can be dangerous because one has an influence on one group, one has an influence on another group versus acknowledging that our influence and impact together is stronger than anything separate.

[Bonnie]

But a lot of this also has to do when it comes to women, minorities. There are only a handful of slots. Right, Right. And that also fuels that battle. Right. Whereas male performers, male groups, white.

[Monica]

That tradition doesn't happen as much as with the men, because everybody can be. You put three of the men on one song and women don't choose, they scream for. You know, it's very different. It's more. It's less black and white and more male, female, in my opinion, or in what I found. And it is frustrating. But when our record was released, everywhere I would go, I'm Monica when I sing my part. Or sometimes I'm Brandi, like, almost like you don't have to choose one. You know, every other song you sing. The backgrounds, the leads, the sing both parts. Get over it. We're over it. Get over it. Join us, please. You know, so I'm hoping that what they've seen in these 32 cities and all of the promos and all of the moving around, you can't fake this. No, you just can't. It's a lot of time you're together. You just can't.

[Bonnie]

One of my favorite moments was when the two of you came on stage in the end in white and paid tribute to the queen. I mean, I teared up. Can you talk about that relationship? Absolutely. And that moment in the concert for you all.

[Monica]

Whitney was one of the few people that saw us for who we really were. And I think she and I had such a great relationship because although I was a huge fan of hers growing up, immediately upon meeting her, I felt that she wanted some. So we didn't do fanfare a lot. We did a lot of sitting at my kitchen table, her shoes off, laughing and talking. If Bob pissed her off, she could call my phone and tell me the story, just as I could call her and tell her the story. You know, we shared those moments a lot more than we shared working with, if that makes sense. So our relationship was, when you see in the montage, I'm there for her HBO special, but I don't even have makeup. I just have lipstick and my hair is in a ponytail because I'm really there as her little sister, just wanting to show her that, yes, I admire you and I love you. You can just be yourself at all times. And she loved that I was okay with doing nothing. That was something she wanted a lot of. She wanted a lot of. She loved to watch them play cards. And Bobby and his sisters were big on getting together, cooking out, like that's what we would do in Atlanta a lot. And it was off record. There were no cameras. There were no. We didn't talk about work at all. And one thing she used to always say is, be you, no matter what. Even if it doesn't feel good to them, it's gonna feel good to you later. I have been perfect for far longer than I want it to be. That was just what our relationship was.

[Crystal]

So in speaking about helping others, which we'd like to do with our listener question, but I wanna ask you this because I find your journey has been absolutely wonderful. Is there anything now that you look back as a 45 year old that you would have done differently when you were talking to the 14, 15, 16 year old that you can share.

[Monica]

Yes. And it is only one thing, only one thing I would remind myself not to have or bear guilt for making it. There is a such thing as survivor's remorse. And it was heavy for me until I was 24 and gave birth for the first time. I spent a lot of time giving to lifting up, paying for leaning into a lot of people that they just didn't mean me very much good. And my survivor's remorse kept me there because if I'm the one that made it out, I don't want you to think that I think that's right because I didn't.

[Bonnie]

That's right.

[Monica]

But the reality is, is that some things you're blessed with, they are for you, they're not for everyone. And had I spent less time trying to give everything that was given to me to others, I would have done a lot more in that time frame.

[Bonnie]

And that's how 16 year olds feel. That's how 21 year olds feel. The difference is that most people don't have enough to give away at that age when they're learning.

[Monica]

But in my world, seeing other celebrities, they adapted an arrogance, a you can't go, I am above and I despise you.

[Bonnie]

Didn't wanna be that.

[Monica]

I didn't want that at all.

[Bonnie]

But there's a place in between. When I talk to our kids, minority kids in college, I often try to address the issue of survivor's remorse because it happens to us, whether we're stars or wherever. If you've made it a little bit more than the people you've come from, that guilt is still there. And I see it a lot in kids who are going to college. You know, maybe you were the one that got in, you were the one that got the scholarship and everybody is proud of you. But you're going to a place that your people never went, so you feel like you're leaving people behind. And a lot of times kids in that position find themselves trying to bring everybody along. Right. So they're, you know, wasting their scholarship money. Cause they're using that to pay for electricity bill.

[Monica]

It was nothing that I did for myself.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

And guess what? Guess who asked for the least? My family.

[Bonnie]

Your family? My mother has never asked for, never asked for anything.

[Monica]

She could not even retire from her job. She kept telling me about these packages and pensions and plans. And my father, he did everything. He was a hustler and he worked on freights at Yellow Freights. It wasn't my family, it was the people that I felt the most guilty for, feeling as if I was leaving them. And I wasn't leaving them. I was elevating myself and doing what God intended me to do. And I didn't have the maturity or the understanding. And after losing everything, including a human being, witnessing a suicide at a very young age, and understanding that no one is going to help me fix what I'm feeling now. And I remember telling my mom that I was pregnant for the first time. And all of a sudden, all this stuff I asked her to do, she started doing it. She takes this package. She does the big goodbye over at Delta. I'm like, oh, this is what I have to do to get you.

[Bonnie]

She's like, bring a grandbaby in. I'm there.

[Monica]

And she said, but now you need me. Now you need. You found your way in a way that's admirable, and God's been guiding you. Hold on to that. Hold on to his unchanging hand, and then I'll be right here in the midst with you. And so I've never had nannies or anything like that. I mean, if I did it again, I would. My mother is about to be 75. I would not put it on her again. But the reality is that I didn't know. I didn't know to let go, to just let go and elevate let go.

[Bonnie]

And that's the message. Because we have a lot of young listeners, it's like, it's okay to let go because it's that oxygen mask theory. It's like, you can't help anybody while you're still becoming.

[Monica]

Yeah.

[Crystal]

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[Bonnie]

I want to talk a little bit about Monica now, right at 45, I mean, you've been a wise one. You know, someone beyond your years, all your life. And my belief is that you came here that way.

[Monica]

Right.

[Bonnie]

You know, and I'm sure if your mother and father were here, they'd be like, yeah, as my mom would say, oh, she was like that. She was always like that. What I'm interested in for women who are in our maturing years now, I will be 62, but I know that I am experiencing something very different in myself the older I get. That is so much better than youth.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

And that's the opposite of what we're told. And it's the opposite of what society says to us, particularly as women.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

I feel so much more grounded, powerful, beautiful, healthy. And it gets better with every decade. How are you experiencing your maturity? Because you're nowhere near it, but you are becoming even more. How do you think about that? How do you articulate that?

[Monica]

I always say this is the happiest I've ever been in every area of life. It seemed as if when I was younger, when business was great, prime example, breakup, then number one record, like, well, damn, couldn't they just go hand in hand? Couldn't you just be happily married and have a number one record? Those don't happen at the time, you know, now the balance of joy in all things, it's really there. And I'm unapologetic. I think that's the most fun. When I don't want to go, I don't feel like I need to give a reason I'm not coming. When I don't feel okay, I don't have to explain it. I just don't feel okay today. I'm confident in those things and I know that anywhere I'm supposed to be, I'll be there. If something doesn't work out, I'm not crying about the things that don't happen anymore. There is just this joy that has overtaken now. I enjoy the way I look more now. I don't even pick it apart. I know what I like. I know what works on me, whether it's on trend or not. It's what I'm buying. It's what I'm doing. I don't know. It's just a joy. I like the way that I speak. I used to say, oh, my God. I might have said it too stern that I. I don't question myself anymore. I said it exactly how I was supposed to. If you don't understand it, you're back.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

You know, but there was a time where, especially right at that 35 point, I became very concerned with how I made everyone else feel all the time. Maybe it was because I had just given birth to a girl for the first time. You know, I had the boys. And being a boy, mom, is very different than now you.

[Bonnie]

I don't know. I got two girls. But I've heard.

[Monica]

Listen, it's different because that ball of emotions when it happens, and it's my time and her time in the same house.

[Bonnie]

Yes. Woo.

[Monica]

What is this? You know, that's different. Cause the boys used to just be like, you all right? You know, and now she's like, mom, are you listening? You know, so they're just totally different. But I'm so secure in who I am and who's with me and who's not. I'm okay with everything that I let go of. I'm okay with. I don't feel like there's an opportunity that I was supposed to have seized that I didn't.

[Bonnie]

I'm loving it. I'm loving it all. Don't y'. All. Y' all feel it, right?

[Monica]

Yes, I see. I've had so many people say, oh, my God, I'm turning 30. And they have tears. Young lady that used to work for me, she cried for weeks before she turned 30. And so I looked at her, I said, do you know the alternative to not aging? The alternative is, you know, as much as we all want to see our Lord and Savior one day, not today.

[Bonnie]

Yes.

[Monica]

So the alternative for not aging is dying.

[Bonnie]

That's right.

[Monica]

And many of us didn't make it. We're one of the ones who did. So when do you celebrate that? I say 45. So fast. And if you catch me, too, right. If you catch me in September, I'll be saying 46. So you can prepare for me.

[Bonnie]

This is what my crystal says it all the time. I'm going to be 62 in January. But I've been saying I'm going to be. I'm 62.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

Cause it's coming.

[Monica]

It's coming. And they're like, and I want to be there.

[Bonnie]

Ma', am, you're not 62, you're 61. It's like, well, it's coming you round. I'm there.

[Monica]

I'm rounding it off. Because I want to be there. I want to get there.

[Bonnie]

Yes. Every year is success.

[Monica]

And when I look at some of the youngers, I'm really proud of all of us. Because some of the 25s, our 45s, we're holding up, but it's how we see ourselves. It's how we take care of ourselves. It's how we love ourselves. Because if you're beating up on you, you start to look like what you've been through. I don't wanna look like what I've been through. I don't wanna do that. So I'm happy.

[Bonnie]

Maybe this is a good time to segue to our listener question, because that's also an important part of IMO is that we try to impart wisdom and on some of our listeners who call in with questions. Okay, you think it's a good time,

[Crystal]

Craig, Whatever you say, I love you guys.

[Monica]

Relationship. My brother would definitely. Montez would definitely be like, it's on you. It's on you.

[Bonnie]

I'm turning 34 soon, and most of my friends are having babies. I've never strongly wanted to be a mother, and my partner is fully supportive of that. But recently I've been feeling torn. Most days, I'm certain I don't want kids, but others, I feel like I'm missing out. How can I tell if those feelings come from social pressure, hormones, or a Real desire to be a mom. And you said she's 30? She's 34. 34. So she clock ticking.

[Monica]

That's what they tell us. Yeah, that's what they tell us.

[Bonnie]

That's what they tell us.

[Monica]

Well, see, this one is hard because again, everything is faith based for me and my family. Right. So what I would do if I were her, I would start praying and journaling about all of my feelings. Don't get pregnant in the midst of that because that will simply just compile those feelings even more. You figure it out first because becoming a parent is until you leave this earth, you will be parenting.

[Bonnie]

We were talking about that walking in. It just changes. But it is constant.

[Monica]

It is constant. I am just as concerned about my 21 year old as I was when he was 12 or when he was 2.

[Bonnie]

And people, we don't talk about that as parents. I mean it's just sort of like have a baby, right?

[Monica]

The concerns just change.

[Bonnie]

Yeah, but they change forever and ever and ever.

[Monica]

It is the end ever commitment and it is an act that you have to be in the most selfless state of mind to do well.

[Bonnie]

Yes.

[Monica]

Parenting is not done well if you are your first thought. And there will be some people that argue with me about that. But I don't care what you say. If you wake up in the morning and your first thought is you, you're not ready.

[Bonnie]

That's right.

[Monica]

You're not ready.

[Bonnie]

That's right.

[Monica]

Because when I wake up, it just alternates between which one of them I've gone to sleep thinking about accommodating, checking on something for organizing with, praying for or with. I mean Even with a 12 year old, you pull up to school, I have already started her. She prays with me before she gets out of the car because I need her to be able to navigate her with a clear mind and know who she is and whose she is.

[Bonnie]

Yes, but did that happen before you had a child?

[Monica]

What?

[Bonnie]

She said, did that happen before you had a child? What?

[Monica]

Did it happen before you had a child?

[Bonnie]

What somebody.

[Monica]

I was thinking about yourself. Well, the difference is, is that I always wanted to be a parent. So I was a child that would play with us too. I was always the child that was destined. I didn't get to meet my grandfather, Alfonso Paige. I didn't get to meet him. He was killed in a car accident before I was born. And my aunt Ruth, who just recently passed, wrote me a letter when I got married about how my mother, per their father's words, was born to Be a mom. And that she saw these same things in me. And remember my mom thought I would be a pediatrician because I always would gather the kids. So I always wanted to be a parent. I tell my friends that say they aren't sure, don't know, don't do.

[Bonnie]

Right.

[Monica]

Be still and know.

[Bonnie]

See, Crystal, we've been having this conversation for like two years.

[Monica]

Really. Be still.

[Bonnie]

Yeah.

[Monica]

Until you know. Because it is the one thing that children suffer the most when you aren't ready, when you don't want it, when you don't love it, or when you

[Bonnie]

don't know your why. Right. I think that if you were just trying to have a child before, you've thought about why.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

Right.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

Because your why completely alters how you will parent.

[Monica]

It does.

[Bonnie]

Right. Because if you were having a child because you are lonely.

[Monica]

Yes. Or your mate wants one. Right.

[Bonnie]

Or you want a mini me.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

Or you know, you want somebody to love you unconditionally.

[Monica]

Yes.

[Bonnie]

Right. To me those are all the wrong reasons, all the wrong. You know.

[Monica]

And if you haven't dealt with your childhood traumas, then you almost just put those onto your children. That's why I say you if it's a selfless act, even co parenting. Because guess what? You know people, the conversation was very heavy when I gave birth to the boys. I wasn't married. When I had my daughter, I was right. I've done it both ways. The requirements are still the same. Because guess what? I still ended up a single parent both times. So the reality, even though I spent decades with each person, I haven't been with many people, the reality is still that I am their mother 24 hours a day. What they require. It is important for me to make sure I am speaking to and teaching to that if I can't bring my feelings out of it some of the time, especially when you're co parenting, if you can't pull yourself out of it, you're not gonna do what's right for them. So you're not ready. But I do hate that now people are looking at the biological clock.

[Bonnie]

Yes.

[Monica]

Versus the maturity, the stability and the full on preparation it takes to be a good parent.

[Bonnie]

And that's why I always say I try to promote the notion that it is completely okay not to have kids ever.

[Monica]

You'll definitely be more wealthy.

[Bonnie]

Exactly.

[Monica]

They are expensive.

[Bonnie]

Exactly.

[Monica]

They are an expensive commitment.

[Bonnie]

Forever and ever. Amen. They never go away.

[Crystal]

If I may because I'm not a woman. So.

[Bonnie]

No.

[Crystal]

But this reinforces, this reinforces what I think is important for men. Just listening to you and understanding Catalina's issue is you have to pick the right partner.

[Monica]

Amen.

[Bonnie]

It helps.

[Crystal]

You have to pick the right partner. I mean, you know what you said, Monica, about parenting is forever meesh. You always say, know your why. That's all right. And dealing with your childhood trauma, all of that is really important. But for the men out there, you see what women are going through to make this decision. It is really important to pick your right partner if you want to have children.

[Bonnie]

So that's another way of saying men should be as cautious as we're saying women need to be.

[Monica]

Well, you all put it very nicely. You should hear my conversations with my sons.

[Bonnie]

What do you say to your sons?

[Monica]

I cannot say it here.

[Bonnie]

Okay.

[Monica]

But I do. I keep it very honest. I keep it very honest because they don't have a mother that would ever support them doing anything other than being great fathers. Yes, that is a non negotiable because I know what single parenting feels like. And if there is a way to make sure that they have healthy, whole relationships and both parents, that's the goal. It's never not the goal. And so I use myself and my own choices and my experiences very openly for them to make theirs.

[Bonnie]

My firm message is, first of all, it is absolutely fine not to want to children. It is not selfish. It is probably the most unselfish thing you can do is to choose to be a parent. But like you said, Monica, because once you choose it, society needs you to be really good at it. You know, Barack had the nerve to be like, we can have three or four. And I was like, well, you're president now. That's our third child. I don't have have room on this schedule, but that's just me, so.

[Crystal]

Well, Monica, this has been a real treat for me.

[Monica]

You were so good to meet you. You were the first person that I brought up when she and I saw each other. I said, you do know I have a brother, and we don't play about each other. And I love watching you two communicate.

[Crystal]

Oh, so of course. She didn't tell me you did. No.

[Monica]

Didn't I say that?

[Trevor Noah]

Hey, what's going on over there? It's me, Trevor. Noah. You know me. You don't know me.

[Monica]

Oh, you do.

[Trevor Noah]

I was worried there for a second. Well, if you know anything about me, you'll know. I love having interesting conversations. Conversations where we scratch beneath the surface, like what's really going on in the news? Or what is that celebrity really thinking about that scandal that they had, or what's the worst way to be a parent? I mean, you want to find that out so you can be the best parent, right? Well, regardless of what it is, this podcast is all about figuring that out, talking to interesting people who have interesting ideas that give us an interesting perspective on the world that we're living in. So check out what now with Trevor Noah, available wherever you get your podcasts.