What Every Woman Should Know About Menopause with Dr. Sharon Malone

Summary

Podcast Summary: What Every Woman Should Know About Menopause

Podcast: IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson
Episode Date: October 8, 2025
Hosts: Michelle Obama, Craig Robinson
Guest: Dr. Sharon Malone (OB-GYN, author, host of Second Opinion)
Producer: Higher Ground

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Episode Overview

In this candid, humorous, and deeply informative episode, Michelle Obama and her brother Craig Robinson welcome back Dr. Sharon Malone, a leading OB-GYN and women’s health advocate, to bust myths, share personal stories, and answer pressing questions about menopause. Together, the trio explores the medical, psychological, and social aspects of menopause, aiming to demystify the experience for women—and educate the men in their lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening: Keeping It Real and Candid

• Michelle and Craig’s lighthearted sibling banter sets a relaxed tone, discussing Martha’s Vineyard, personal photo shoots, and Michelle’s new book on her fashion evolution.
  • Quote: "You were safe, too." —Michelle Obama (00:12)
• They emphasize creating spaces where uncomfortable topics—like menopause—feel safe, accessible, and even fun.

Dr. Sharon Malone: Beyond the Credentials

• Dr. Malone’s backstory: youngest of eight, resilience after losing her mother young, and how community shaped her survival and medical journey.
  • Quote: "When you’re the youngest of eight children, you have to learn how to bob and weave." —Dr. Sharon Malone (06:58)
• The importance of supportive friend groups through life’s challenges, especially for professional women and mothers (09:01–11:37).

Women’s Health, Self-Advocacy, and Medical Access

• Sharon discusses early aspirations in medicine and the lack of accessible healthcare for Black families in the segregated South (12:16–13:49).
• She strongly advocates for women to own, understand, and advocate for their bodies.
  • Quote: "No one knows how you feel but you." —Dr. Sharon Malone (18:56)
• Michelle echoes the importance of tuning into one’s physical and emotional health (17:59–18:56).

Balancing Family, Career, and Self

• Dr. Malone on juggling motherhood, a high-powered husband (Eric Holder), and an OB-GYN practice:
  • "At some point in my life, I had a newborn, a two year old and a four year old, and my husband was doing his thing." (19:04)
• Community and reliable friends were essential for survival and mental health (23:07–23:58).

The Power of Female Communities

• The hosts reminisce about wellness “boot camps” at Camp David and the importance of supportive friends (24:31–26:41).
• Michelle credits Sharon for advocating for some fun (wine hour!) and balance in women’s wellness (25:16–25:35).

Dr. Malone’s Practice Philosophy

• She describes herself as an approachable, advocacy-driven doctor, addressing structural issues in women’s health—particularly for Black women.
  • Quote: "I'm not the doctor and you're the patient—that hierarchical thing? That's not how I work." —Dr. Sharon Malone (30:03–30:25)
• Lack of trust, paternalism in medicine, and the unique obstacles women and people of color face when seeking care (31:37–33:38).

Menopause: Breaking Taboos and Medical Myths

• Social stigma and lack of male involvement in supporting partners through menopause (41:03–42:26).
  • Craig: "There are many men who can’t even support the women in their lives because we have no idea what’s going on." (41:22)
• Dr. Malone explains how menopause, its symptoms, and their impact are often minimized and misunderstood:
  • Effects every organ system—skin, hair, sexuality, confidence, brain function, cardiovascular health (42:42–44:18).
• Menopause treatment options, especially Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT), have been misrepresented and underutilized due to outdated fears about cancer risk (45:31–47:24).
  • Quote: "The benefits outweigh the risk. Suffering is a choice—don’t choose it." (46:51 & 47:24)

Men’s Roles in Menopause Support

• Craig asks how men can support partners and spot signs of perimenopause, with Sharon emphasizing empathy, patience, and shared healthcare visits.
  • "Don’t get mad at her for being mad at you—understand that she’s going through something." —Dr. Sharon Malone (55:44)
• Dr. Malone provides practical advice: give grace, help with daily responsibilities, encourage doctor visits, and support hormonal treatment when appropriate (54:44–63:35).

Medical Facts, Recommendations, and Challenges

• Clarifies common misconceptions about hormone therapy:
  • Current guidelines: "Unless you develop a contraindication, you can take them [hormone therapies] forever." (65:40–66:26)
• Lists medical contraindications and stresses the benefit of starting treatment as soon as symptoms occur rather than waiting (66:45–68:07).
• Early or premature menopause increases risk for Alzheimer's—HRT helps protect long-term brain health (63:34–65:16).

Embracing the Transition

• Michelle encourages women to embrace, not dread, life’s transitions and see menopause as an opportunity for freedom and self-discovery.
  • Quote: "If we’re alive enough to have transition, then we’re blessed." —Michelle Obama (70:24)
• Both women share that their 60s are the best years of their lives—health and support make all the difference (71:38–73:07).

Call-to-Action for Men

• Craig pledges to start attending doctor visits with his wife and to open lines of communication about symptoms.
• The episode concludes with a heartfelt reflection on the power of safe, honest, community-centered conversations.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Own your bodies, understand your healthy baseline, and don’t be afraid to talk about how you feel." —Michelle Obama (17:59)
• "Suffering is a choice—don’t choose it." —Dr. Sharon Malone (47:24)
• "Men don't know what’s going on... We have to get better at being able to discern that or at least saying, are you mad at me or are you not feeling well?" —Craig Robinson (56:15–56:53)
• "Embrace the transition. If we’re alive enough to have transition, then we’re blessed." —Michelle Obama (70:24)

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Important Timestamps

• 06:58: Dr. Malone on growing up the youngest of eight.
• 17:59: Michelle Obama on body ownership and self-awareness.
• 30:03: Dr. Malone on patient care without hierarchy.
• 42:42: Impact of menopause across the body & myth-busting.
• 47:24/65:40: Up-to-date views on hormone therapy.
• 54:44/63:35: Advice for men: supporting partners through transition.
• 70:24/73:07: Michelle and Sharon on embracing life's transitions and thriving in later decades.

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Tone & Style

Conversational, humorous, and deeply empathetic, with honest sharing about tough subjects, plenty of sibling teasing, and grounded in real-life anecdotes. Both medical expertise and life wisdom are dispensed generously and accessibly.

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Recap & Takeaways

• Menopause is natural, complex, and treatable: Don't suffer in silence—seek support, consider medical advice, and explore hormone therapy if needed.
• Talking about transition matters: Removing stigma helps everyone, including men who want to be supportive.
• Women's health is everyone's concern: More open, accessible, and holistic dialogue benefits the whole community.
• Community sustains us: Friendship, laughter, and sharing real stories are as vital as medical advice.

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Listen to Dr. Sharon Malone’s new podcast, Second Opinion, for more approachable, expert-led conversations about women’s health.

Transcript

[Craig Robinson]

This could have been an uncomfortable discussion for a guy. It absolutely was not. It was the opposite. I felt safe and informed and educated.

[Michelle Obama]

Did you feel safe?

[Craig Robinson]

That's what. See.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, let's hold his hand.

[Craig Robinson]

See?

[Michelle Obama]

He felt safe. You were safe, too. This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Alloy Women's Health.

[Craig Robinson]

Hey, you.

[Michelle Obama]

Hi, Craig.

[Craig Robinson]

It's Michelle Obama in her favorites place in Martha's Vineyard.

[Michelle Obama]

In this beautiful barn in Chilmark on the Vineyard.

[Craig Robinson]

I like Chilmark.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes.

[Craig Robinson]

That's the perfect name for it. Chill.

[Michelle Obama]

It's Chill, Mark.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

It is.

[Michelle Obama]

I'm sure there's a deeper meaning to the name of the town. I know, but. Yeah, one of my happy places. How you been?

[Craig Robinson]

I've been good. Do you know what I did this trip? I'm so proud of myself.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

What'd you do?

[Craig Robinson]

I got some pictures of myself taken all around the Vineyard.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh.

[Craig Robinson]

Fancy pans down by the port. Where they.

[Michelle Obama]

In Edgartown.

[Craig Robinson]

In Edgartown. And where you could see the lighthouse.

[Michelle Obama]

By Harborview.

[Craig Robinson]

By the Harborview. Yeah. Yeah. And you know how I booked it?

[Michelle Obama]

How?

[Craig Robinson]

On Airbnb.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, okay.

[Craig Robinson]

You can book services and experiences.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, wait, wait, wait. You booked a photo shoot?

[Craig Robinson]

I booked my own photo shoot.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, wow.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. Well, I didn't book it, you know.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

Secretary.

[Michelle Obama]

So that's a part of the special amenities, the new approach to Airbnb, the experience.

[Craig Robinson]

You can get different kinds of services. You can get a chef, you can get a tour guide, and you can get a photographer. So I got a photographer.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, that's very cool. I know that.

[Craig Robinson]

I'll send you some shots.

[Michelle Obama]

I know this generation which likes to photograph themselves everywhere. Their food, their. You know. That's a great idea.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

So did you. I can't wait to see the photos. We gotta post them up on.

[Craig Robinson]

I'm going to send them to you. I'm going to send them to you. We're going to have them on. We're going to have them listen on social media. Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Were you cute?

[Craig Robinson]

Of course I was cute.

[Michelle Obama]

All right, well, wonderful, wonderful.

[Craig Robinson]

And I. A little birdie, as dad would say, a little birdie told me you have another book coming out. How come I didn't know about this?

[Michelle Obama]

You do? I do. You did know. You probably weren't paying attention. That could be true, but we announced in the summer that my third book is coming out. And I'm really excited about this book because it's called the. And it's all about my fashion evolution, something that I never talked about as first lady because I didn't want to be limited to what I looked like or what I wore. But that was definitely an important part of my journey. So the book is structured like a coffee table book.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[Michelle Obama]

But it's beautiful photos, but a lot of wonderful essays. The foreword is written by Farrah Griffin, who is a professor of sociology, dean of everything at Columbia. I co wrote it with Meredith Koop, who's my stylist.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes, I know Meredith.

[Michelle Obama]

And we also have her story in there. We have my whole, what I call my trifecta story. Makeup, hair, all the team that worked on those. You hear from them. You hear about the journey behind all that went into waking up every morning and being the first lady. And so it's coming out in November, and we are going to have a special IMO podcast on the Look, a limited IMO series that will go deep into some of those stories.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow. So the secrets will be out.

[Michelle Obama]

The secrets will be out. Yummy. It's fun. It's beautiful. It's insightful. Because it's not just about fashion. It's about how we show up in the world, what it takes, how we're the lens with which we oftentimes, as women, are struggling to break free of as we are doing substantive things in the world. Talks about hair, the black girl, hair, experience, all of that, all the things that I never talked about. I do it in this book. And we will be doing it on the podcast so our listeners know. You can pre order the Look. It is available wherever you get books.

[Craig Robinson]

I can't wait.

[Michelle Obama]

That's our first little teaser on something, but we got some more teasers.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Because our guest today is the first returning guest that we've had here on Immo. She was such a hit all across.

[Craig Robinson]

The land, and people had so many health questions, we thought we'd bring her back.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, we are talking about Dr. Sharon Malone. Craig, you can run down her bio.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, yeah. Well, of course. Dr. Malone is a nationally recognized OB GYN with over 30 years of experience and now a New York Times bestseller.

[Michelle Obama]

Yes, indeed.

[Craig Robinson]

Her book, Grown Woman Talk. And she has also been a longtime advocate for practical information on women's health and aging. She is now also the host of her own podcast from higher ground, the Second Opinion. Please welcome our dear friend, Sharon Malone, subject matter expert extraordinaire.

[Michelle Obama]

Hi, sweetie.

[Craig Robinson]

How are you?

[Michelle Obama]

So good to see you. It's good to see you.

[Craig Robinson]

Good to see you always welcome.

[Michelle Obama]

Welcome back. Welcome back to the I am table.

[Craig Robinson]

And you get in there.

[Michelle Obama]

Back by popular demand.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I can get in there, as they say.

[Michelle Obama]

I mean, folks just love, love you on the first episode that you were here because you are fabulous. You are killing it on the book front. And it's not just the information in the book, it's the information provider. Sharon, I think everybody here knows that you have been one of my best friends, one of the happy places in my life for a long, long time. And I just want to take some time for people to really get to know Sharon. Not Dr. Malone, the Sharon that I know. Because one of the reasons I think your book has been so popular is that it shows your voice through and through. You know, you are not just a substantive expert in the field, but you are funny as all get out. Your music taste is sublime and your voice just rings true. Were you always a comedian?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, I'm a survivor. And, you know, let me just say, when you're the youngest of eight children, you have to learn how to bob and weave. You know, it's like you can't beat anybody, so you better figure out a.

[Michelle Obama]

Way to get on. And you're the youngest by a long way. You are the oops baby, as you will now. Those are your words.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

That is correct, because I have to own that. But the age span between the oldest and the youngest in my family is 23 years.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

So my oldest brother was married when I was born.

[Craig Robinson]

Got it.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Got it. And then there's seven years between me and the next sibling. So I had my way with no one. So you just learn how to disarm people, perhaps with a little humor, so they won't beat you up.

[Michelle Obama]

Cause that's the key in life is just when you're growing up, you just don't wanna get beat up.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Exactly, exactly. And back in the day when I was growing up, they really would beat you up. It wasn't like they would just threaten.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, no, they'd beat you up. Yeah. Back in the day, folks still fought.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yes, they did.

[Michelle Obama]

I remember you were telling me about your early school years and how you were. You told me the story about how you were the always the smart kid and you would do everybody else's homework. Tell me, Tell them about survival skills.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I'm telling you, not only was I the youngest in my family, but I used to be a skinny little girl. So again, I couldn't control anybody at home, and I couldn't control anybody at school either. So I'd be sitting there and it's like Sharon and I'd say, oh, yes, you'd like to see my homework.

[Craig Robinson]

No problem.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I give you the math homework. Do that. But, you know, hey, you gotta do what you gotta do, right? I didn't get beat up.

[Craig Robinson]

So both of you all have kept this really tight circle of friends, not just here on Martha's Vineyard, but throughout your lives. And can you talk a little bit about what community has meant to you and how it's helped you over the years in your practice?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Community is everything. And, you know, I also had the unfortunate experience of losing my mother when I was 12 years old. So I moved a lot, you know, so when my mother died, I moved to Atlanta and I was, you know, new family, living with my older sister. I went to a new school in a new state. And you have to figure, you have to find it, because I wasn't. I never moved with my family. You know, it was always just me. And I lived in Atlanta for two years, and I lived in Dallas for a year, another year. I came back to Mobile and every place I went to just to combat the loneliness that you feel, and particularly loneliness in the face of loss. You know, I found people and I found people at school or people at church that could really help fill up some of that empty space that I had.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah, yeah. How did you become such a survivor? I mean, where do you think you got that from? Because you lost your mother young. Your father was much. He was an older parent. Yeah, by a lot. You were kind of like an only child.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I was like an only child. I was, I say I was a free range child because when you live with siblings, even though they're older than you, that's not the relationship that we had had. This is, you know, my sister, you know, and the, the, the happiest thing you could say when someone would tell you to do something, you're not my mother, you know, you're not my father.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, and you, you whip that out a little.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I whip it out occasionally, yeah. I was kind of a pain, but, but, but I really, I don't know where it comes from, but I know, I do know this, that that sense of resilience and the sense of feeling as if I may be down, but I'm not out. I think I got that from my mother because, you know, as difficult as things were for me, my mother also lost her mother when she was only 14, and she was the one who was really in charge of taking care of her younger siblings. So, you know, relatively speaking, you know, my life was way easier than her life. Even though they both were difficult in you know, in different ways. But my mom was really pretty, an amazing woman, and I'm glad that at least I got to know her for 12 years. And, you know, and some people don't get that. And I. She was amazing and strong and smart. But here's the thing. Smart people, but they were smart at the wrong time.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know what I mean? They didn't have the opportunity to show how smart they were. But, you know, I saw it. I still feel it, and I still. You know, every time I think of her, and even my older sister, I still hear her voice in my head, and that's. She's been gone over 50 years.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Craig Robinson]

At what age did you say, all right, I think I want to be a doctor? Or did that not come till later on? Because I think all of us wanted to be a doctor at some point.

[Michelle Obama]

We just didn't have the brain power.

[Craig Robinson]

We didn't have to stick it out early on.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like, ooh, math. There's math in being a doctor. Well, count me out.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Well, you know what's funny is that the thought occurred to me when I was probably in third grade, and third grade was the first time that I had ever heard anybody's parent who was a doctor. You know, my parents were working class people, and as were most of the people in our neighborhood.

[Michelle Obama]

And you grew up in Alabama.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Mobile, Alabama. Segregated. Mobile, Alabama. But I didn't really know professional people, and so. And. But the other thing that I talk about a lot in my book is the fact that I didn't grow up having any experience of even interacting with doctors. You know, I was taken care of by Dr. Mom, you know, and my mom knew, growing up where she did in the rural south, she knew a lot of remedies, home remedies. And I told you she was really smart about most things. But there was a point at which, you know, your skill set, you know, is exceeded. And that is unfortunately why my mother lost her life. But I say that to say I was like, wow, there's a black kid in my class and his dad is a doctor. And it's about knowing, you know, just see what you can see, what you can see. That was the biggest thing I could think of to be was a doctor. And that idea got in my head. And, you know, when you're a smart kid and you can do math and science, you kind of. It just kind of. It got a life of its own. Oh, Sharon's gonna be a doctor. Sharon's gonna be a doctor. And, you know, Here I am.

[Michelle Obama]

Did you feel like you had the same challenges that girls today have, being taken seriously in math and science? Or did you feel like there are a lot of girls who just don't go into the field because they don't think they have math brains or they're the only ones in the advanced math class? What was that like for you as a young black girl growing up in Mobile, being a STEM kid, essentially?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, what's funny is I think that, you know, everything leads to something else. And being the youngest of eight kids and growing up in the Deep south in segregation, I started first grade in 1965. My sister had just graduated from the University of Alabama. She integrated the University of Alabama in 1963. So everyone in my family, for generations and generations, no one had ever been to an integrated school until Vivian integrated the University of Alabama. But she was 20 years old. There was a Catholic school that was across the street from my house. It was literally, I could throw a rock and hit the playground. And that school had always been white. And in 1965, I think my mother felt emboldened. So she was like, well, if Vivian can go to the University of Alabama, you can go to school across the street. So I went to that Catholic school for two years, and there was a nun there, and her name was Sister Miriam Regina. And bless her heart, she let me be smart. You know, even though I was only one of two little black kids in a class, she affirmed the fact that I was smart. She would say, you know, she would say, sharon, you take the reading group and go in the back, that kind of thing. And so from the very beginning, I never had that feeling that someone was smarter than me. You know, I'm in a class full of white kids, and I go, yeah, I'm a smart kid here. But I didn't have that gender thing either, because even when I went back, back to segregated schools, there were boys, there were girls, and everybody was kind of on your own. If you were the smart kid, you were the smart kid. You didn't have to hide your light.

[Michelle Obama]

And you really had to love what you do, not just because you're good at it, but I don't know that a lot of people know that you, in the midst of becoming a doctor, being a doctor, starting your own practice. You also had three little kids and a husband, our former Attorney General Eric Holder, who had, as one of the things that bonded us, he had a career that just took you to places that you might not have wanted to go, but there you have it and I want people to just talk about what it was like for you with three back to back children and maintaining a thriving practice in getting to be a doctor.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

This segment is brought to you by Alloy Women's Health. At Alloy, everything starts with the science. We're on a mission to make evidence based menopause care accessible, starting with real doctors who specialize in perimenopause and menopause. You know, I am the chief medical advisor at Alloy Women's Health and I feel like we're having a full circle moment here because it all started with you. Almost exactly five years ago to the day, you and I did a little podcast on menopause.

[Michelle Obama]

We sure did.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

And believe it or not, that podcast led to the founders of Alloy and Fallen Water and Monica Melnauer who was in Rotterdam. They listened to that podcast, heard me and said, wow, we need that woman to be part of Alloy. But it all started with you. And I think that says a lot about the credibility that you have because they figure if she's good enough for Michelle Obama, she must be okay for our company. And I've never looked back since. What wisdom have you gained through your health journey that you wish more women would speak openly about?

[Michelle Obama]

Sharon, we talk about this all the time. I just want women to own their bodies. I mean, I want us to be more aware of how we feel physically. So many women are taught to ignore our bodies, not to sweat, not to overexert ourselves. But what I've learned over the years is that knowing my body and understanding my healthy baseline, knowing what my body is supposed to feel like when everything works, helps me know when something's going wrong. So I don't just exercise and eat right and get sleep because I want to look good. I also want to know in my body what health feels like. So I always encourage women to understand that how they feel physically is as important as they look.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, I always tell my patients that because honestly, no one knows how you feel but you. And being able to communicate that effectively is everything. Join the 95% of women who tried aloe and saw relief in the first two weeks. Head to myalloi.com and tell them all about your symptoms. And you'll get a full, fully customized treatment plan. And you'll get $25 off your first order today when you use code IMO2.5, head to myalloy.com and enter the code IMO25 to get $25 off your first order. Well, you know, I am not gonna lie. It was really and when I look back on that now and I say to myself, wait a minute. At some point in my life, I had a newborn, a two year old and a four year old, and my husband was doing his thing, you know? You know, And I. But I knew that and it was just. It's such a blur, you know, and that's why Michelle and I could always relate because I was like, I was mad through the night. All of the 1990s, you know, I didn't come out of the other side of it. I'm like, wait a minute. Oh, y'.

[Craig Robinson]

All.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Can. Can you be left alone? Okay. That's when I was like. But it was. It's. It's a lot.

[Craig Robinson]

So you were mad, though?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Oh, my God, are you kidding me? Because this would be, you know, my husband would say, okay, I'm on my way home. I said, okay. And then hours later, children are in bed. And then he'd let the garage door up. I'm like. And they're like, daddy's home. And I wake my.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, ouch.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

But you know what? But see, it's all relative. It's all relative. And I always had to say to myself, I was like, okay, Sharon, get a hold, get a grip. I had a lot more resources than my mother had. By the time my mother was my age, I think she had seven children. I only had three. So I was like, you know, say.

[Michelle Obama]

I should be able to manage this.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I should be able to manage that. And she didn't even have to. Disposable diapers.

[Michelle Obama]

So surely I do.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Surely so.

[Michelle Obama]

But you were on call too. I mean, this is because you were delivering babies and with babies.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I was.

[Michelle Obama]

And it had to be up for 24, 48 hour shifts.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, you know what? You know what that led to, right? So when I've got all these little children and I have two girls and I have a boy, and the day before my 40th birthday, that was the day of the big chop. Okay? One day I had a ponytail. I went to work that morning and I had a ponytail. I had a perm and straight hair and it was all back in a ponytail. And after work, I went to the hairdresser and I came home and I looked like this.

[Michelle Obama]

And it's like, I can't deal with one extra hair.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I can't do it. And honestly, I think. I think my husband thought I had had a nervous breakdown between 8am and 6 when I got home. And he was like, honey, are you okay? I said, yeah, I'm good. I'M good. Best thing I've ever done. I have not grown it back one time since, and that was 25 years.

[Craig Robinson]

Wow.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah. But that's some. You got to do what you got to do.

[Michelle Obama]

You got to do what you got to do. This is why we are friends, because we spend all our time talking about, girl, how we getting through this.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Exactly, exactly. But the way you get through it is really with community, with your friends. Because on those many times when, you know, my husband couldn't get home or I had to go somewhere, sometimes you just call up your friends, say, girl, I gotta run here. Can you come over here and sit with the kids for a while? That is how I think that even through the most difficult times, you know, we made it through because I had this wonderful community of girlfriends. I had them then. I have. And you've met a lot of them. They're still around to this day.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, that's the beauty. We've met each other's friends. I mean, that's how the friendship circle works, at least with us. I know with a lot of women, friend groups. I mean, our friends have become friends with one another. I mean, I know Dee and Bonnie and your other Michelle. Your other Michelle. And, you know, all those characters play, you know, they live vividly in my head because they've been such an important part of your life.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

That's exactly right. And we know each other's stories, you know, and it's nice to see those characters come to life because, you know, we talk about our friends all the time. So, you know, that's the. I think that's the really wonderful part about being of the womanhood, is that we do sort of naturally sort of create communities. We have to. We have to.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. And we started, you know, the story goes, we talked about this when you first came, your first visit to imo. But one of our bonding experiences were these boot camps that I would hold at Camp David for my old friends and new friends. We did about three times a year a weekend we'd go to Camp David. We'd have our trainer there, we'd have all the Marines there. And it was my version of wellness, although I was a little too harsh about it.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

But you know what? Let me just say this about your sister, okay? She's always ahead of the curve. So now everybody's got a wellness retreat and a wellness weekend. We were doing this 17 years ago, you know, before it was a thing. So that's why I said what she said.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, I thought you were going to say that. She was a little bit competitive, and that's why she sweet. We all know that. We know that.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

We know that. When we go on the walks, I'm like, I'm going to just stay back here with the slow group bike ride.

[Craig Robinson]

She's got to be in the front.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

That's all right. I'm good. See, I'm secure about that.

[Michelle Obama]

Like, I'm with you. That's Sharon. Sharon. Sharon says no to a lot of stuff. She's like, you know what? I'm gonna go on a third of that walk, and then I'll see you back at the bar, you know.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know what? I'd like to say that I am personally responsible for reinstituting a little wine hour at the end.

[Michelle Obama]

Because before Sharon was the advocate, it was dry. It was dry. And then for the third time, people were like, I don't know if I'm coming if we can't drink at all.

[Craig Robinson]

So we would've been a one person.

[Michelle Obama]

It would have been like, okay, I'm about to lose all my friends.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

They would have. Let me just say in the little rooms, you'd have M&Ms. You have the. You go there, the M&M's will be gone.

[Michelle Obama]

Right. Because they could not have any of that. All my friends have been to Camp David out of.

[Craig Robinson]

Yes.

[Michelle Obama]

Outside of the boot camp weekends. So they know what is usually there.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. And they get there, share with the audience. Like, what is it like when it's not boot camp? There's candy everywhere.

[Michelle Obama]

There's candy everywhere and cookies. It's supposed to be a delightful retreat. There's a little Shangri La inn where you can get bar food.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Oh, yeah, wings.

[Michelle Obama]

You know, wings, my friend. Wings and things. My friends would be lying and eating a healthy dinner, but then going to Shangri La and getting some fried food. And I'd be like, this defeats the purpose. But one of the things I knew about Sharon is, like, Sharon could hang. Cause we were doing stuff like we were playing dodgeball, you know, I mean, women of all ages. I remember Susan, one of our friends, who at the time was in her 70s, and we were competing with dodgeball with her.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, no. Tell me you didn't hit her with a dodgeball.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, she wasn't on my team. And she was always the last person standing because nobody wanted to hit her.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah. You know, that's. We could have, but it would have been wrong.

[Michelle Obama]

And I'm like, come on, somebody take her out. Just take her out at her knees. You know, Everybody was like, oh, so, Susan be standing there, always the last man standing, you know.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Relay races.

[Craig Robinson]

But I want to know, Sharon, how, if you were your own patient, how would you describe yourself as a doctor?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Oh, I would be the one in there really asking the questions. And I would be like, are you sure? You know, because I'm not shy when it comes to that kind of advocacy. Because I always had to advocate for myself because I had no one else to do it for me. You know, I didn't go to. We didn't have, you know, people go to pediatricians appointments for just, well, children. Checkup.

[Michelle Obama]

That wasn't a thing.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Never. We went. You got shots.

[Craig Robinson]

Emergency room.

[Michelle Obama]

And nobody got braces.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

No, no, no, no.

[Michelle Obama]

I can tell you what kind of doctor she is. If I had grown up and lived in D.C. and if we didn't have Walter Reed, the Presidential Medical Center, I would be among the many, many patients who are loyal to Dr. Malone throughout the D.C. area. I mean, everybody. She has delivered, every child that we know, she has taken care of them through adolescence. And you imagine you birth a child and then you see them through to. If it's a girl, maybe you're talking to them about birth control. You know, you see some people into their adulthood because not only is Sharon good, but she can. She provides.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

She's.

[Michelle Obama]

She's. The confidentiality is real. There is no slippage. I don't know who half your patients are. You never talked about who your patients were, but everybody walked up and said, for of all races throughout D.C. i've been with Sharon for many years. My wife is with her. My daughters are with her. She is the go to doctor. And I realized that, you know, started to realize how valuable that was during the boot camp weekends where we would. After we punished ourselves and ate salad and maybe had a glass of wine, we'd sit around and we just started talking about life and questions. And it often led to what was going on with us, our bodies as we aged. And Sharon was always there with just clear, practical guidance and advice that, you know, she's everybody's second opinion, you know, and maybe that's a good segue to talk about your new show, because that's another reason why we've got you on here, is because you've been so popular with our IMO listeners and your book has been so popular that we are bringing you into the IMO family with your own podcast called Second Opinion. Can you talk a bit about your show?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, first, I want to say thank you for that, but, you know, I Wanted to be. I always modeled my professional career over, you know, I would say, around the concept that I'm not the doctor and you're the patient. Okay. That's not how that hierarchical thing.

[Craig Robinson]

Oh, got you.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Where doctors sometimes.

[Craig Robinson]

And I patronize where you gotta feel.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Or I have to talk down to you because I know what it feels like being on that other side of it. I know what that meant for my mother and family members to not be able to have adequate healthcare, particularly in the segregated South. So I wanted to come to the second opinion with that same attitude. You know, I do hear you and I see you, and I understand what you're talking about. But I'm gonna give you some advice in a way that you can understand it. And you know this. There's not a time when I'm out somewhere and someone who I just met will start. They'll say, oh, you're a doctor. And then they'll start asking me the questions that they should have asked their doctor, but they don't have time to. And that's why I want the second opinion to be that show. I want it to be approachable. I want people. I wanna talk about that. The things that people really have questions about that you don't have time to talk about in your doctor's office or that you, for whatever reason, may have been too intimidated or felt as if. No, that's a stupid question. There is no stupid question.

[Craig Robinson]

Or may not even been trained to ask the question.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Exactly. Exactly. Sometimes you don't even know what the.

[Michelle Obama]

Possibilities are, you know, and there's an intimidation factor. I mean, especially when it comes to women and people of color. You know, we don't know that we're supposed to question authority. We're not socialized to feel that way. So you have always been a safe space for all of our friends, our community. Sometimes you just need the reassurance that there's somebody who loves you, you know, who cares about you and sees you, who is pointing you in the right direction.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

And that's been the history of. Of just women's interaction with doctors. I mean, we've not been believed. We've not been seen. You're being hysterical. And when you're talking about black women, then there is also this incredibly ingrained bias. We think that black women. Oh, well, you're being, you know, you're just being extra. Or you can take it, you know. And we know this because we have data that says that, you know, black women are constant, you know, are consistently undermedicated for pain not believed under, treated for conditions that they actually do have. I mean, and that's, there's a lot of robust data about that. And so, you know, I, what I want to do and like, let me, I'm going to be completely clear. I don't know everything. That's why the show is called the Second Opinion. Because there are gonna be things that I don't know. I may not know the answer, but I know who to call. And I also know the questions to give you such that when you see your doctor, you know the right questions to ask. But you're right, Craig, sometimes you don't even know what the universe is. You just take that as, oh, well, I guess that's what my doctor said. But is it, is that the right thing for you? That's the mindset I want people to have.

[Michelle Obama]

And in this world of social media where people are way too reliant on their own search engines to answer deep medical. I mean, but I think that's just the, it's a reflection of how intimidating the medical process is. I mean, people would rather go online and feel what they mislabel as independence. You know, it's like, or, you know, a lot of people don't even have access. They don't have doctors to call. So especially this generation of young people who are going on WebMD and they're looking up symptoms and they're self diagnosing or they're seeking out their own medication and all of that, that has become a growing sort of practice among a whole generation of people which I find completely dangerous. Can you talk a bit about that?

[Craig Robinson]

Hey everybody, Craig Robinson here. And you guys have heard me talk a lot about how much I love staying in Airbnbs. Well, our family is planning a trip out to the west coast to visit our daughter. And we were thinking, man, it's gonna be hard to roll up in her two bedroom apartment with six people. So we decided to get an Airbnb where we could all hang out comfortably. We'll have more bedrooms. We don't have to fight over bathrooms. There'll be a kitchen. We can cook out if we want. So my wife Kelly found the perfect place for us. Using Airbnb's guest favorites. We're staying close to my daughter's place, which means we can spend more time with her and easily get out into the city. We get a chance to tour la, take her to her favorite restaurant, drop by Universal, let the kids play around for a day. Or we could go by Griffith Observatory, which is the place I'VE always wanted to see. If you're starting to think about your next trip, check out Airbnb's Guest Favorites. Guest Favorites are the most loved homes on Airbnb by other guests. This episode of IMO is brought to you in part by Acorns. Back when I was coaching basketball, I saw firsthand how powerful consistency can be. With Acorns, it's the same play, show up, stay steady and let time do the rest. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now. Even if all you've got is spare change, you don't need to be an expert. Acorns recommends a diversified portfolio that can help you weather all the market's ups and downs. You just need to stick with it, and Acorns makes that easy. Acorns automatically invest your money, giving it a chance to grow with time. This reminds me of the consistent steps it took for me to go from a player into the business world and back into coaching. Sign up now and join over 14 million all time customers who have already saved and invested over $25 billion with Acorns. Plus, Acorns will boost your new account with a $20 bonus investment offer only [e-mail] IMO that's acorns.com IMO to get your $20 bonus investment today from Acorns, Mighty Oaks do grow. Investing doesn't have to be complicated. Acorns makes it easy to invest for your future, plan for tomorrow and spend smarter today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns Investing involves risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor view important [e-mail] IMO this episode of IMO is brought to you by Cologuard, a non invasive colon cancer screening test. Currently, the American Cancer Society recommends that if you are at average risk, you should begin screening for colon cancer at age 45. There are an estimated 60 million adults aged 45 plus in America who are not up to date with their colon cancer screening. So we need to change that by spreading the word about another option. The Cologuard test can help you put your health first and feel more in control of your colon cancer screening process. This easy to use screening test is delivered right to your door and allows you to collect the sample comfortably at home on your own schedule. The sample is shipped back to the lab for Testing and results are available within eight to ten days. It's simple. But the best part about the Cologuard test is that it allows you to start screening for colon cancer without all the hassle of preparing for a colonoscopy so you don't have to prep the day before. And by prep, you know, I mean fasting and drinking all that liquid. You get to skip the stress of having to request off work, go under anesthesia, get a ride home, and all the other hassles that come with an invasive procedure. And in addition to its convenience, Cologuard is also affordable. Most insured patients find they pay nothing out of pocket with zero downtime, no special preparation, and a screening test that's delivered right to your door. Let's start prioritizing our health. So if you're 45 or older and at average risk, ask your healthcare provider about screening for colon cancer or with the cologuard test, you can also request a cologuard prescription [e-mail] podcast. The Cologuard test is intended to screen adults 45 and older at average risk for colorectal cancer. Do not use a cologuard test if you have had adenomas, have inflammatory bowel disease and certain hereditary syndromes, or a personal or family history of colorectal cancer. The cologuard test is not a replacement for a colonoscopy in high risk patients. Cologuard test performance in adults ages 45 to 49 is estimated based on a large clinical study of patients 50 and older. False positives and false negatives can occur. Cologuard is available by prescription only.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know what? I think that the explosion of social media, particularly when it comes to medical issues, I mean, it is. There's a lot of good that has come from it because it has. We've raised the awareness of a lot of issues, particularly when it comes to menopause and perimenopause. And I think that the conversation that you and I had five years ago really sort of opened the floodgates because you were one of the first people who said the word menopause. Oh, yeah. And I'm in it. And now it's a conversation that has been, you know, that is never ending. So that's good.

[Craig Robinson]

That's great. It's really neat because as a husband and a father and a son, because, you know, the first time I heard about menopause was from my mom and she was just talking about hot flashes.

[Michelle Obama]

So she wasn't like I don't even remember her ever talking about hot flashes.

[Craig Robinson]

She would say it to me. She would say it to me when I was. And when she was having one. And she's like, ooh, I'm having a hot flash. And I was like, I knew what a hot flash was, and I knew what it indicated. I should say, I didn't know what it was. I knew what it indicated. And so there are many men who can't even support the women in their lives because we have no idea what's going on. And so I'm so happy that we're talking about this from a man standpoint, because not only do we not know what's going on, we're not like women. Like, Kelly goes to all of my appointments. I never go to her appointments. And I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure you don't see too many husbands coming in for their wives OB gyna appointment only when they're pregnant. Right.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, because that's like, whatever's going on with you is only important. It's only important when you have some. When you are carrying another human being.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like, I have a stake in the baby, but not in the woman carrying it. So you go on along to your pap smear.

[Craig Robinson]

So I want to be prepared so as Kelly moves into this stage, I can be at least educated and be a little bit more supportive than. And then be a role model for other dudes out there.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Because it's a lot. It sounds like a lot, It's a lot. But you know, what menopause is, is that if men understood the things that women endure from the moment we hit puberty to straight through menopause, there is this normalization of women's suffering that we take on as well, because we think we're supposed to suffer. Well, that's what being, oh, I'm supposed to have cramps. Oh, I'm supposed to have this. I'm supposed to have. And so a lot of times, because we don't know where to go and who to ask for help. And if you think that's normal, what really disturbs me is seeing how long women have suffered. And menopause is just the last of the suffering episodes that they have had to endure. And so when you get to menopause, if you understood that menopause is not just about a hot flash. Menopause affects every organ system in a woman's body. So that's why a lot of the stuff, the irritability, the mood swings, the brain fog, the crying, jags, depression, anxiety. It's affecting your brain. It's not when people say, oh, it's just in your head. Yeah, of course everything is in your head. You know, that's where everything registers. But it is having real life effects on your skin, your hair, your sexuality, how you move around in the world, your confidence.

[Michelle Obama]

Imagine if men experienced any of that. There would be a pill, a rub, a spray, and surgery already discovered and being implemented.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Right. But, you know, the sad thing is that we do know how to treat menopause. We do. But unfortunately, it's like it's been a secret, you know, and this generation of women really has been left out of the conversation and thinking that they. Because it's dangerous, or maybe it's gonna give me cancer. That hormone therapy, which is the most effective treatment. That's why I will get in people's business. Cause if I see people out there and they're fanning or they got a little electric fan, I'm like, I'll go, hey, you know, we have something for that. So you don't need to do that. Please don't just sit there. Because it goes on for years. It's not like labor, where you go, well, this baby's coming outta there at some point. No, this for years. And for some women, a decade or more of not feeling your best self when this solution is at hand for most women, but we don't know.

[Michelle Obama]

Explain to Craig and the listeners once again, what has been the rub against women using hormone replacement therapy?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, you know, hormone therapy has been around since 1942. So it's not like we just discovered what the treatment is. You know, it's a hormonal issue that is dealt with by giving women hormones. Okay, estrogen, primarily. And we've been doing that. But, you know, again, for women of color and for people who don't have doctors to see, you know, again, you're least likely to have gotten that in 1955, because again, you didn't know and you don't have a doctor. So there's that. But the big shift happened in 2002, and there was a study that came out called the Women's Health Initiative, which really put the fear of God in women because we knew it was effective for treatment for the symptoms that everybody knew. But when it raised the issue that hormone therapy slightly increases the risk of breast cancer, then it was game, set, match. Women threw away their hormones. No matter how great they felt on them, they stopped taking them.

[Michelle Obama]

And doctors recommended that they stop.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Absolutely. Because. And then so imagine for 23 years, we've had the solution right at hand, and no one would take it for fear of breast cancer. And we're not, you know, and that's not true. And it.

[Craig Robinson]

And the data doesn't back that up.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

No, it wasn't true then, it's not true now. And that the benefits outweigh the risk. But we have to undo all of that think that negative thinking, because women fear breast cancer more than they fear a heart attack, you know, because breast cancer strikes at something very. That's very personal. I can see it. So that's been my mission is really to try to get out there and to get women to understand, you know, suffering is a choice. Don't choose it. Why would you?

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And let me just say, I don't choose it. I. I was started to feel the symptoms of menopause. It was sometime during the first term. And it comes like, you wake up one day and you're having hot flashes.

[Craig Robinson]

And at what age range?

[Michelle Obama]

I had to have been in my late 40s, right. Mid-40s. But here's the thing. When menopause happens is very different. It varies from woman to woman. Depends on your history, your gene structure. Some people go into menopause in their 30s. Some people may not feel any symptoms. Right. And that's maybe confusing to husbands. Right. You know, because if it's not because you think, well, this should be happening equally to everybody, and it. And it. And it doesn't. So for me, I was in my late 40s, at least, when I started having hot flashes. But I knew that that probably meant I was perimenopausal. I could have been perimenopausal for 10 years before that. Right. Okay. But it just. It was like I woke up one day and started, you know, having these bouts of severe heat and flash and sweating. It was like, what happened today? You know, I woke up and it was different like that. Like, you know, so I was like, okay, this is, you know, I knew enough to know, okay, I'm starting to have the hot flashes, right? And I thought, probably, like a lot of women, let me see if I can handle this, the suffering thing. Let me see if I can get through this. Why? I don't know. You know, probably I didn't think to just call the doctor right then and there. It started.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Let's go.

[Michelle Obama]

But I said, well, I've got time. Let me just, you know, sit this one out. And I. I went on a couple of trips. I'm the first lady, right. I Got speeches and I'm on planes and I'm changing clothes. I got my hair done. It was one trip. I think I had about 40 hot flashes. And I was like, I. I can't live like this. I can't get off this plane soaking wet. I can't factor in the time to change clothes and redo my hair in between a day of speeches. Right. I just. It wouldn't be a good look. People would be like, what's wrong with her? She must be lying.

[Craig Robinson]

She's sweating, you know, and you're literally sweating. I think there are a lot of us out here, men, who hear hot flash, but we don't know what it means. We don't know that you're dripping.

[Michelle Obama]

You can drench in sweat if you've ever had a night sweat. Have you ever had a night sweat?

[Craig Robinson]

No, but I've had sweating from working out. So I know what sweating a lot is.

[Michelle Obama]

It is not.

[Craig Robinson]

It's different.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah. Sweating from working out. There's exertion that leads to your body heating up, and you can feel it coming. And you. There's a connection. No, you are sitting here like this, and from within, like a furnace is lit in you. Like a hot, hot furnace. Right. Like your organs are just hot furnace, hot coals. Right? Your stomach, your liver, your heart is just think of that.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Think of that.

[Craig Robinson]

I'm not laughing. Your pain is.

[Michelle Obama]

And it comes like that. And it's not painful, but it's just hot. Right?

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

And then from with inside, it's like you burst with water. Water just drips. Dripping. Your clothes are soaking wet. You have to change your clothes.

[Craig Robinson]

Right, Right.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

And you know what?

[Michelle Obama]

That's a hot flash.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

And imagine for women, and this is happening, you know, peak career time.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, Right.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know, you're in your 40s. You know, you're in a board meeting, or you're getting off Marine One, and, you know, and all of a sudden you just break out into a sweat. And you never know when it's coming. It's totally unpredictable. And one of the things, the other symptoms that women really find very distressing is the brain fog. Like, you're sitting there, and then all of a sudden, out of your head, you just completely lose your train of thought. And for professional women, you can't, you know, that's a problem, you know, and it undermines your confidence, you know, your ability to do your job. So, you know, I say this, and I don't say this lightly. Hot flashes are really important because not only are they just Uncomfortable in the short term, but they are harbingers of other things to come. And women who have a lot of untreated hot flashes are more likely to have disrupted sleep. They're more likely to be hypertensive. They're more likely to develop bad habits. Because again, if you're not sleeping, what are you gonna do the next day to compensate? You're gonna eat more, you're gonna exercise less. All of these things independently and collectively increase your risk for cardiovascular disease. So that's why I say when I see a woman having hot flashes, I do want her to know that. No, this isn't something to say. Oh, don't worry, dear. It'll be over in 10 years or so. By then, the damage is done.

[Michelle Obama]

That's right.

[Craig Robinson]

So what are your thoughts on the notion that perimenopause is under diagnosed?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Oh, that is, you know, at least for menopause, you kind of have an idea, right? Okay, it's done. And I'm not having my periods anymore. But the reason why perimenopause is so under diagnosed is because it wasn't really recognized as a thing. You can have all those symptoms that we were just talking about and still get in your period. And so, and you go to. And your hormones would be normal if you went to the doctor and said, oh, can you check my hormones? And hormones are normal. And then you walk out and go, oh, well, I guess it's just me. I'll have to wait. It might be eight, nine years before your period stops. So what are you supposed to do? Just be miserable for eight or nine years? No, you can treat when you're symptomatic. And I think that again, we have a generation of doctors that doesn't really recognize and understand that you can treat, treat when you're symptomatic, but there's not going to be one blood test that's going to confirm it for you. You are in perimenopause when you are having symptoms and nobody knows that but you.

[Craig Robinson]

And then you have to communicate those to your doctor.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Exactly, exactly.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, that's why we have to talk about the symptoms. Right. Because a lot of women aren't even taught to be aware of what's happening with their our bodies. Right. A lot of women don't want to sweat, period, because they don't want to move. We're more worried about getting our hair messed up and keeping the blow dry in or not messing up perm. That becomes more of a motivator. So if we're not messing your Hair is messed up.

[Craig Robinson]

That's the important thing.

[Michelle Obama]

That may be a driver, because if you're sweating so much, you just got to blow out, and then you get a hot flash, well, that might be the motivator for more women than worrying about having a heart attack.

[Craig Robinson]

So what can we do, men as husbands, to support our women earlier, whenever it's needed? Help us. Help us. Cavemen know how we can help.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

No, but I think that having a little grace and really understanding that what she's going through is difficult. You know, it's uncomfortable. It is sometimes that irritability, that little extra snappiness that happens. It's because, you know, that's because everything is affecting your brain. It really is. And sometimes you have to. Even when they may not recognize it themselves, sometimes you might have to say, you know, honey, you look like you're having a bad day. You know, why don't you go sit down? I got this. Whatever it is, you need to get, be it the kids, be it the dishes, whatever, but giving them a little grace and say if she's yelling at you or she has broken out into a rage, because that's another sign. That's another symptom. That's probably why I was mad for a decade.

[Michelle Obama]

But perimenopausal didn't even know it.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Rage, just rage. And you can sometimes feel yourself and say, now, I know I shouldn't be that man.

[Michelle Obama]

Yeah.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

But what men need to understand is that don't get mad at her for being mad at you. Understand that she's going through something.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, see? And now you just lost a bunch of men right there.

[Craig Robinson]

It's like, what do you mean now we haven't lost them. You're about to lose them by getting on before you give them a chance.

[Michelle Obama]

I was just watching your face.

[Craig Robinson]

Just let him.

[Michelle Obama]

Did you see his face?

[Craig Robinson]

Let him.

[Michelle Obama]

He was just like, would you let.

[Craig Robinson]

A brother soak in the information?

[Michelle Obama]

Tell me, what was the. So what'd you soak in?

[Craig Robinson]

Let me see your reaction issue. This is just a typical relationship issue. If you happen to have, like, a response to some information that could possibly be read in a couple different ways. It's like, ah, there. You lost it.

[Michelle Obama]

Well, I'm just asking, what was your response?

[Craig Robinson]

What was your reaction? My response was, it. It is to me, for younger men. They won't know regular behavior from perimenopausal behavior, because sometimes you all get mad at us anyway. So I'm thinking in my mind, how.

[Michelle Obama]

Many people here went, ooh, I See a lot of men go, ooh, all.

[Craig Robinson]

The men are smiling because they're like, he's doing it for us. And all I'm saying, all I'm saying, all I'm saying is I'm trying to help get the message out to everybody that that's a great point. Because sometimes folks get mad at you because they're mad at you and you did something and they mad at you. But sometimes folks get mad at you because they're going through something and we have to get better at being able to discern that or at least saying, are you mad at me or are you not feeling well? Or something like that. You gotta put it into some communicative way like you say, to give them more grace. It's just not something that you learn in the locker room or on the basketball court. You don't learn it and you will.

[Michelle Obama]

Not find it there.

[Craig Robinson]

You come to IMO to get some grace yourself. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, who help people move forward and live fully. Owning a home can be one of the most powerful ways to build financial security. But for many, especially first generation buyers, it can feel out of reach. That's why I appreciate what Progressive is doing. In 2024, they contributed over $7 million to help individuals and families break the cycle of renting by providing support, offering educational resources, and developing tools to build long term financial stability through home ownership. Their work goes beyond just insurance. They're opening doors through their newly created Up Payment program. Progressive is helping first generation home buyers move closer to the dream of home ownership by offering eligible applicants a chance to receive a down payment assistance grant. You know, owning a home for me made me feel grounded and also set me up for the future. And as a coach, when your life is dependent on wins and losses, it's really important to have the comfort of a really nice home to come home to, especially for your family. Home ownership is one of the biggest investments you'll ever make, and Progressive wants to help more people take that life changing step. Learn more [e-mail] OpenTheHouse this episode of Imo is brought to you in part by Understood.org if you're a parent of a child with ADHD, dyslexia, or any learning difference, and especially if you're navigating special education as a parent of color, you know, it can feel like a maze. There's a podcast from Understood.org called Opportunity Gap that's here to help. It's hosted by Julian Saavedra. And in every episode, he talks with special ed teachers, child psychologists, and other experts. They break down things like how to navigate the IEP process, what accommodations your child is entitled to, and how to build a strong relationship with your child's teachers. You know, I checked out the Opportunity Gap myself and what stood out to me was how practical and empowering it is. It's a resource that really meets families where they are. It also provides tools to help families build confidence in navigating the challenges of children who learn differently. To listen, just search Opportunity Gap in your podcast app. That's Opportunity Gap Gap. You may remember me talking about this sponsor last month. That sponsor is Helix Mattress. Let me tell you, sleep used to be a struggle for me. I toss and turn, wake up groggy and rely way too much on coffee to get me through the day. And I know I'm not alone. So many of us are trying supplements, gadgets or meditation apps to fix our sleep. But the real game changer, the foundation of it all, is the mattress you're actually sleeping on. When I switched to Helix, it was like night and day, literally. I took their two minute quiz and it matched me with the perfect mattress for the way I sleep. I ended up with the twilight and I cannot overstate how much better I feel now. I wake up rested, my mornings aren't such a battle and I have the energy to dive into my day, keep up with work, and of course, keep showing up here on the mic with you folks. Sleep impacts everything. Your mood, your focus, your health. And for me, investing in a Helix mattress has been one of the best things I've done for myself in a long time. If you don't trust me, you should trust the experts like Good Housekeeping and Forbes who have done the research for you. And our listeners can get 25% off site wide by going to helixsleep.com imo. That's helixsleep.com imo for 25% off site wide. And make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com IMO.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Well, you know, I'm gonna give you a little easy way to think about it.

[Craig Robinson]

Okay.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

If you come in and you know and your wife is like on you and you, whatever.

[Craig Robinson]

And mind you, we are not talking about Kelly. Cause she might be, she might be going through something but I'm not aware of it.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

No, let me say this. I think the first question that comes in your mind when someone and they're like on you, like the first question you need to ask Is what did I do? Ask yourself, sometimes you did something. Yes, now you know what I mean? Sometimes you did something.

[Craig Robinson]

Know that we as men know when we have done something, but when you.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Can honestly say, I didn't do anything, I didn't do anything, then you have to at least put that in the, in the differential saying, perhaps this is something. She's having a bad day. But go further than that. Don't just give her some grace and go. Let her lay down and take a nap. Say, honey, maybe you need to see somebody, you know, go see your doctor, because this seems a little out of character.

[Michelle Obama]

How about, let's go.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah, see, that's even better. That's even better.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

That's even better.

[Craig Robinson]

That's even better.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

To let, to make her know that again, we have options. We have treatment. And you don't have to. To sit there and just endure it. And it will make everybody's life better, your life better, children's life better, her life better. You know, and here's something that I think the most surprising statistic for me was that two thirds of all people in this country with Alzheimer's are women. Two thirds. And it's not because we live longer. So that's not it. But it is clearly something about how women's brains are affected. And it. You start. And it starts happening at menopause. And again you say, well, no one ever said, hmm, wonder why that is. We are just now getting to the point where we're starting to ask that question. And I think for. If there's anything that I want, you know, our listeners and viewers to know is that for. What we do know right now is that for women who have an early, early menopause, which means menopause before age 45, or a premature menopause, which means you're menopausal before age 40, those women are more likely to develop Alzheimer's. So you got to say, well, hmm. And so the current recommendation is that, though, if you have an earlier or premature menopause, those women not can, but should take estrogen therapy and hormone and progestin therapy to protect their brains. And we gotta do a little bit better job about asking and answering some of the questions about it.

[Michelle Obama]

Something I always ask you, Sharon, just because this is a me question, we've talked about this. How long do you stay on hormone replacement therapy? Because I use hormone replacement therapy. And there's still a, you know, because there is still the thought that, well, you, you shouldn't do it for more than 10 years. There are A lot of women that hear that and they're trying to wean themselves off of it.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Or you're trying to start late because you're like, I don't want to use up my time. No, not true. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, the Menopause Society, we all agree, current guidelines are that unless you develop a contraindication to taking hormone therapies, you can take them forever. You know, there is no set time at which you say that expires. And particularly when it comes to osteoporosis. Hormone therapy prevents osteoporosis. But if you stop your hormone therapy, guess what happens? You start to lose your bone density again. And within five years of stopping, you'll be right where you would have been had you not taken it at all. So, no, there is no reason. There is no time limit.

[Michelle Obama]

It's like a statin, right? Which we take all the time, but we. You know, people are on cholesterol medicine. They're on blood pressure medication, right? They. You know, if you have.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

If you develop one of the cont. One of the four contraindications, then maybe.

[Michelle Obama]

What are those?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Breast cancer, Uterine cancer. If you have an active. Like if you develop a pulmonary embolus or you have vaginal bleeding, that's undiagnosed. That's about it. And even some of those are sort of fungible. It depends. But I forgot. What was I saying? What was I talking about?

[Craig Robinson]

You see?

[Michelle Obama]

I know. And I can't help you because my brain fogged up.

[Craig Robinson]

You were talking about therapy. You guys were counting on you.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I know. Okay. I was saying, on both ends. On both ends. So there's no time limit for how long you can take. But here's the other part that I want women to understand. You don't get any extra bonus points for saying, ooh, I haven't suffered enough. Wait. I'll wait until they get real bad. No, you start when you are symptomatic, and you don't have to wait until you've not had a period for 12 months. You don't have to wait until. You know your brain fog is so bad you can't find your way home. None of that. You can start when you say, I am symptomatic. And this is bothering me. This is affecting the quality of my life. You actually do more harm by waiting than by starting, because you get more benefit the earlier you start.

[Craig Robinson]

Well, this would be a good time for our question, because the question's very pertinent. And it comes from Caz in Australia.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

What tips might you have about navigating transitions in life, in particular, menopause, as it's a whole new ball game impacting on every part of life, psychological, emotional, physical, and spiritual. I'm mostly interested in managing the roller coaster of emotions and sense of self. And I'm keen to hear from a woman's and a man's perspective. Well, I think you know what. I think you know what my perspective is. And that is, if you are having that many symptoms, then you know again, see your doctor and say, am I a candidate? Yes or no. And if they tell you no for no good reason, then you need to find another doctor or find someplace where you can get the relief that you need, because it is. Menopause is a total body experience. And I think that I would be remiss if I didn't say that the cornerstone of healthy living and healthy aging and longevity, all of it has to do with living a healthy lifestyle. So you exercise, eat right, have community, get a good night's sleep, cut down on alcohol. That's whether we're talking about menopause or.

[Michelle Obama]

We'Re talking about cut down on alcohol. Now, how high on the list does that have to be?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Well, you know, what you got just.

[Michelle Obama]

For all the ones that are concerned. Because when you got brain fog, sometimes you just need a glass of wine to make it. Just clear it up, you know, Poof. I can see again.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

You know what? Sometimes you only hit four out of five of those things. You know what I mean? You just say, well, I did get a good night's sleep. So, you know, as I said, there's gotta be some joy in the world. And we can't let that pendulum swing so far in the other direction. But I think, you know, in moderation.

[Craig Robinson]

Right?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

But when you've done all those things and you're saying, okay, I'm still feeling all of this tumult in my life, then let me say this, and I'll say it loud for everybody to hear. There is nothing that is more effective for the treatment menopausal symptoms than hormone therapy. Nothing. Some people might try one thing. We're here, but that's the number one.

[Michelle Obama]

I want to tell Taz was that. Or Taz. Taz with a C. You know, first of all, I want women, us to embrace transition, you know, because I think that that's still something we struggle with. The broader question was, how do you manage transition? Transition, menopause being among that at this stage in life, you know, Sometimes we view transition as something negative. It's like we are always evolving and that's a good thing. If we're alive enough to have transition, then we're blessed, but we shouldn't be ashamed of it, you know, And I'm trying, continuously trying. Cause it's the thing you never stop working on as a woman, as a person, is to try to figure out all that good and not get all sucked into what I didn't get, what I didn't have, what I didn't do. Because there's still time ahead. So embrace the transition.

[Craig Robinson]

That's terrific. Embrace the transition and then see your doctor, live a healthy lifestyle. But. But the most important thing is get the hormonal treatment.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah. You know, one thing I want to say, Craig, before we leave this, before we leave, Kaz, is that I also think that, you know, the two of us here at this table, we're. Michelle now is, you know, 60, I'm considerably over 60. But it gives you the role models for what your life could be. You just have to be well enough and healthy enough to be able to take advantage of it. Because I think this is a great time. It's different, but it's really the first time that we get to do what we want to do. You know, you're kind of relieved from a lot of those day to day responsibilities. And so I want young women and people who are going through this transition, don't dread what's on the other side. Because we're good.

[Michelle Obama]

We are so good. The best time of my entire life is right now. It really is. And that is not made up. I do not wish to be 20 again. Not in any way, shape or form. But I enjoyed my 20s. I think young people should enjoy every decade and not bemoan it because there's learning in all of it. But there is some real freedom about this time in life and you just want people to be healthy enough to enjoy it. And I'm thinking about my 70s, I'm thinking about my 80s, because I wanna still be able to do some of this stuff in my 80s.

[Craig Robinson]

Yeah. It is a journey. And it can start by reading Grown Woman Talk and listening to the Second Opinion.

[Michelle Obama]

So what would you do differently, Craig? Or what are you going to do differently as a man? After hearing this conversation, you know, I.

[Craig Robinson]

Think it's gonna start for me where I am going to start attending appointments with my wife when she goes in for appointments. Just because if she needs some, if she's gonna be foggy, she's gonna need Somebody some backup in there to hear what's going on. I'm not the best at that. Cause I don't even do it at my own appointments. But there's two heads are better than one. That's how I would start, number one. Number two is I'm gonna do a little bit more communicating as I see these symptoms coming along. Because right now, we're still got young kids, we're busy. It's easy for me to overlook any kind of behavioral changes because we're running around.

[Michelle Obama]

It's easy for her to overlook it, too.

[Craig Robinson]

And it might even be easy for her to overlook it, too. So those are the first two. And then the third thing is this whole hormonal therapy thing's brand new for me. So this is, as always, it's just. It's a treat and so helpful, so resourceful, and is absolutely the reason why you're kicking off your new show. Because we need more of this. And you have such a way about you that, as a. I mean, this could have been an uncomfortable discussion for a guy. It absolutely was not. It was the opposite. I felt safe and informed and educated.

[Michelle Obama]

Did you feel safe?

[Craig Robinson]

That's what seems to be.

[Michelle Obama]

Oh, let's hold his hand. He felt safe. You were safe, too.

[Craig Robinson]

I am trying to be.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

I love you.

[Craig Robinson]

Your bedside manner is the best here. The best. But see what I got to put up with? I know you know her now. I know.

[Michelle Obama]

But I like that where I'm teasing you.

[Craig Robinson]

I know you are, you know, but.

[Michelle Obama]

Men do need to feel safe to, you know, be invited into these conversations and to, you know, and not feel ignorant or attacked or, you know, and it's probably better not to have some of these conversations with your own spouse because you might get some of that 1990 backlash, right?

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Yeah, you might.

[Craig Robinson]

Knowing the 90s, you might get something.

[Michelle Obama]

Bro, you just made me think about the 90s. Oh, you think I'm angry today?

[Craig Robinson]

You remember how mad I was in 1990?

[Michelle Obama]

Well, I am so excited that you are kicking off your podcast. It has been a long time coming. I am your biggest fan, and not just because you are my dear, dear friend, but as the listeners can see, she's one of the smartest women that I know, and she gives it to you straight with a little chaser. Everyone please tune in to the Second Opinion like and subscribe. Get it done. It's coming out soon. Everywhere you get your podcast. Thank you, Sharon. Thank you.

[Dr. Sharon Malone]

Always great to have you.