Bonus: How do CEO’s stay fit? - In Good Company with Nicolai Tangen

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[00:01]
A
Hi, everybody. I'm Nicola Tangen, the CEO of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund, and you are listening to In Good Company. Now, when you spend as much time as I do sitting across from chief executives, world champs, and some of the sharpest investors on our planet, you start to notice something. These people work incredibly hard, but almost all of them also quietly are obsessive about how they look after themselves. So somewhere in most of these conversations are I cannot help asking, when do you get up? Do you exercise? How do you sleep? And how on earth do you switch off? In this special episode, we have gathered some of the most fascinating of those answers. The exercise, the sleep, the cold water, the naps, the food, and the little rituals that keep our guests fit, sharp, and able to perform at the very top. None of them are doctors, so think of this as what works for them, not a prescription. But there is a surprising amount of wisdom packed into the next few minutes and one or two habits I've happily stolen myself. And right at the very, very end, I'll tell you what I do. Let's get into it. Let's start with a man who, more than anyone, has turned all of this into a system. Vas Narasimhan runs Novartis, one of the world's biggest pharmaceutical companies, and he organizes his whole life around four simple words
[01:16]
B
I got taught very early on from my coach that I work with today named Scott Pelton. This approach, mindset, movement, nutrition, and recovery. And I stick with it. So mindset, you know, clearly, mindfulness, meditation, observing yourself, observing why you think the things you think, why you feel the things you do, and then setting yourself up in the right mindset each day and for each interaction or each moment, even when I have to show up on the In Good Company podcast, you know, nutrition, you know, I think you have to think, why do you eat the things you eat? And how you eat will affect your performance, even in small ways. So something I always think about, obviously, movement. I mean, exercise has a lot of impact on the nervous system. Over the years, I've learned that exercise can reset your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. By the way, so much of leadership comes down to managing your nervous system. You're likely not going to make a good decision when you're on high, sympathetic drive. When you're more balanced, parasitic, sympathetic, you're more likely to get all the inputs that you need. So observing that in yourself is. Is hugely important. And then recovery. I've learned over the years the power of sleep. I mean, I'm obsessed With trying to optimize my sleep. I've got, you know, technology, sleep technology, sleep supplements, all kinds of things to really say, how can I get seven plus hours of very high quality sleep and recover? And all of those things compound over time and then give you the energy.
[02:44]
A
And the nutrition part is delightfully specific.
[02:47]
B
I'm a lifelong vegetarian, so I've never had meat in my life. So, you know, that may be strange. Maybe not so strange. I eat whey protein every morning. Two scoops of whey protein every day. It's kind of a way I start my day. Nothing else magical I can think of. I mean, I do try some of the various supplements like Ashwagandha and some of this stuff. It's probably all a placebo effect, but nonetheless, I definitely test these things out.
[03:16]
A
If mindset comes first, movement comes a very close second. And nearly everyone starts the day with it. Bob Iger has run Disney through some of the biggest moments and he's clear that he simply couldn't do the job without it.
[03:29]
C
I think it's a lot of things. I think some of it is how you're wired, it's genes, some of it is how you have. You're prepared. So by staying in shape. Having stamina is critical for me, and that's eating well and exercising and just taking care of my body and my mind is really important. I could not do this job if I were not in some form of physical and even mental health. One could argue that I'm not getting enough sleep, but that morning time for me is rejuvenating. Actually. First of all, it's meditative, it's quiet. The stimulation that exists in my life when it's still dark out and no one else is up, is toned down. And so I get a chance to be alone with my thoughts. And that gives me an opportunity to order things, meaning to figure out an order and a set of priorities. It's a way that I begin the day with more purpose. Instead of waking up and suddenly being bombarded by all the incoming that comes my way, I can attack the world and the day just with a little bit more organization. I have a cup of coffee first and then I put on my workout clothes that I work out at the house almost every day. And I do the same thing when I'm in a hotel anywhere in the world. I work out for about an hour every morning, sometimes less, but rarely less than 45 minutes. And it's again, I like to say that it's for sanity and vanity purposes. It enables me As I said, to clear my head. But I also, you know, enables and better prepare my mind and my body for the. For the job at hand.
[05:17]
D
Sure.
[05:18]
A
When do you go to bed?
[05:19]
C
I go to bed between 10 and 11 most nights.
[05:23]
A
Stefano Domenicali, the boss of Formula One, turns that morning workout into thinking time up before sunrise, out of the door, music on.
[05:31]
E
I wake up at 5:30, 5:30.
[05:34]
A
What do you do then?
[05:35]
E
Run every day? Yeah, if it's not ugly weather. Yes. I go around to around 8km, 10km per day. It's the only time that I have free so I can listen to music because I love music and I'm trying to think what I should do during the day. And then I come back in the work here and then I go back home if I'm not around the world because I tell you my schedule, maybe you don't believe it, but I believe it. If I tell you what I did in the last months, you cannot believe it. So. So I go back around 8 to have dinner with my wife. Yeah. And see our kids.
[06:09]
A
And when you run, what kind of music do you listen to?
[06:12]
E
Well, I normally listen to Italian music and pop music.
[06:18]
A
All that early movement only works, of course, if you've actually slept. Tan Su Shan, who runs Singapore's bank dbs, points to a line she once heard from Arianna Huffington that only half jokingly, you should sleep your way to the top.
[06:32]
F
What she obviously meant was if you have good sleep, you perform well.
[06:36]
A
Absolutely.
[06:37]
F
You perform well, you do well, your company does well, you get promoted, your company does well, the company, you know, goes up in value. It's a win win situation for everyone
[06:47]
A
and it's part of a bigger picture for her meditation she first learned in a hard moment and exercise she now uses to clear her head.
[06:55]
F
I had a bat spat in my life in my mid to late 20s when I lost my job, I lost my home, I lost my then relationship and I thought my world was going to crumble down upon me. And that's when I learned some friends of mine taught me to meditate because it enabled me to see myself as a third party, to see the world as it was and to realize, you know what, calm yourself down, the world isn't so bad. You got your health, you got your family, got your friends. So whilst I don't have a lot of time to meditate nowadays, I should do, I do have, I mean I do yoga, I go for long runs, I listen to a lot of podcasts. Those quiet moments, I think when you take yourself out of your everyday, you know, noise gives you perspective.
[07:51]
A
Now, everyone who knows me know that I'm a great believer in the afternoon nap. So I was thrilled when author Dan Pink, who has actually studied this, talked me through what he calls the perfect nap.
[08:03]
G
That is the scientifically optimal nap where you. I've done this on bad days. I'm not a huge napper, but I will. And this is what I do is I sit in a chair in my office, I drink a cup of coffee. Okay, I don't even enjoy it. I actually just put ice cubes in hot coffee. Guzzle it. Okay, 25 minutes. And I set my timer on my phone for 25 minutes. I close my eyes, I put in noise canceling headphones, I close my eyes, I put my feet on an ottoman. And I can usually fall asleep in it depends, you know, seven, eight minutes. But here's the key. It takes about 25 minutes for caffeine to enter your bloodstream. And so when I wake up, not only do I have the restorative smoke power of the nap, but I have
[08:47]
A
the added caffeine onto food. Mark Schneider spent years running Nestle, so when he tells me how he starts the morning, it's worth a listen.
[08:57]
H
I consider myself a flexitarian and that means I don't really believe in a whole lot of restrictions. But over the years I noticed that I have dialed down meat consumption quite a bit. In fact, at home I rarely cook meat at all because when you travel, you know, there's so many occasions when you get served meat. I also believe in a large intake of fruit and vegetables. Usually I try to shoot for 10 to 15 a day.
[09:24]
G
Oh wow.
[09:24]
H
And I'm a strong believer in vegetable juicing. So that's how I start the morning, on a self made vegetable juice. And those are my secrets.
[09:32]
A
And he ties it to a wider philosophy.
[09:34]
H
At the moment I'm reading about the importance of sleep. So a book called why we Sleep that came out a few years ago, very good to me. When it comes to health, it's about the trinity of nutrition, exercise and sleep.
[09:49]
A
Have you got any bad habits?
[09:52]
H
Well, when it comes to sleep, I think jet lag is my middle name. And so like all cloak trotting executives, I think this is something that you preciously have to watch because if you don't watch it, then time zones or the world around you will simply bite into the sleep budget and you pay the price.
[10:10]
A
Over time, Mark dials the meat down. Jack Dorsey goes a good deal further. The man behind Twitter. And now Block eats once a day and talks about it like he's discovered free time.
[10:21]
I
I like to learn by going to extremes. So I've tried every single diet you can imagine. I got very interested in my health and maintaining my health span. And one of the things someone was doing that felt interesting was they had this one meal a day thing. And I tried it and I only ate dinner, and then I only ate breakfast and I only tried lunch. And what was amazing is like I got all this time back and it felt like a superpower. All these people spent all this time eating breakfast and eating lunch and dinner and all this ritual around it. And I had all that time back, I had literally two or three hours back to do something else or to have a real conversation that's not interrupted by food. And then I realized I didn't need that much food. Like, we overeat. We definitely overeat, especially in the United States. And I felt like my health increased, my energy increased, and I gave myself all this time back to do things that I really wanted to do. And. And when I did eat, it tasted amazing.
[11:25]
A
He's just as committed to quieting the mind.
[11:28]
I
I was. I was doing a 10 day silent meditation retreat every year for five years before COVID And then that was 10 days of like, you don't speak, you don't. All you do is meditate from 4 in the morning till 9pm no phone, no communication, no exercise, whatever. So during COVID all the centers closed and I haven't gone back yet. But I meditate every day for like an hour when I get up or attempt.
[11:58]
A
All that talk of food is really for Jane Fraser, the chief executive of Citigroup, about one thing, resilience. And she works at it deliberately, making
[12:08]
J
sure that I eat well. I try and make sure I get enough sleep. I make sure I have time for my family as well. You've got good emotional, physical and spiritual resilience because it takes a lot.
[12:23]
A
How much do you sleep?
[12:25]
J
I try and get seven hours every night. Jet lag's not wonderful. And as I get older, I discover that it is harder to recover from jet lag than it used to be.
[12:33]
A
Her real secret, though, is something most of us never taught how to breathe properly. She uses it as her form of meditation.
[12:42]
J
What I do is I practice good breathing techniques. I had a coach a while ago that taught me how to breathe properly and that's actually made a huge difference. It, in a way, is a form of meditation because it gets your body in a better, more relaxed shape. To take things. It is sitting properly with your feet on the ground that you're sitting up straight and you feel that there's a sort of alignment in your body down through your core and then you just breathe out, not up in your chest but down in the. Down almost in the belly. Because if you're breathing up here, that's usually you're holding your body quite tense, whereas down here is where in your core is where a lot of the, you know, a lot of your strength and energy comes from, from calming the
[13:33]
A
body to shocking it awake. Here in Norway we are rather fond of throwing ourselves into cold water. So I was pleased to discover I'm not alone. James Quincy, the boss of Coca Cola has taken it up too, with no illusions about his talent for it.
[13:47]
G
I've become a part of the sad or not so sad train to trying the swimming in cold water. And I found out I had to Google how fast I was and see whether it was any good. And I was really slow, unbelievably slow, like right down at Novice. And I'm like, okay.
[14:03]
I
But it was fun.
[14:04]
A
He also has a nice way of thinking about pace.
[14:07]
G
Life is a marathon. You can have periods of working insanely hard, but it's hard to live your whole life at that pace. Life is not a set of sprints, it's a marathon. Now some people can run a lot faster than other people, but you've got to pace yourself, particularly when you get to be kind of CEO.
[14:27]
A
I think if James eases himself in. Ari Emanuel, the Hollywood super agent who now runs tko, goes all the way. His routine is by his own admission, a little crazy.
[14:41]
K
4:35 o', clock, I work out for an hour and a half. Sauna, iceberg. I mean it's just, it just, it is. Over the years it's gotten crazier and crazier. I have one every day. So I do, I do 20 minutes and I do three minutes in the ice bath.
[14:56]
A
And for him the discomfort is the whole point.
[14:59]
K
Doing three minutes in an ice bath ain't easy. Meditating in a very hot sauna, you know, one of my things in my, in my. Why I do these things for my health. You know, today I'm on a 24 hour fast. Every quarter I do a three day fast. Getting your mind, the ability for your mind to be able to handle uncomfortable also on, on a personal level for your health helps you in business too because it, and you know, kind of putting barriers around yourself of what you can and can't do and that that also helps even though it's for your health, it also helps in your business decision making and your ability to. To kind of be the ability to endure the aggravation. And you realize this too will pass and it's not going to kill you and you're going to work through it.
[15:56]
A
From extremes back to balance. Karin Rostrom, now chief executive of Daimler Truck, was once on the Swedish national rowing team. And she's never lost the athlete's respect for the other half of training, namely recovery.
[16:10]
L
First of all, it's family time. Second of all, being in the mountains, I mean, I do sports, so now I'm doing a lot of trail running in the winter, cross country skiing or touring. That both makes me recharge because I get to move physically and also just being in nature. I think there's something special about that makes you not think about work. And I believe that actually that's also one of the learnings from rowing is this balance between performance and recovery. That's the same in CEO life. And I think a lot of people underestimate the recovery part. But actually that's probably as important as delivering and being on when you're on the job is recovering and recharging when you're off the job.
[17:07]
A
She even has a weekly ritual for it.
[17:09]
L
Either it's Friday night or Saturday morning, I sit down and I write. What happened? What did I feel? What did I learn? I share that actually with someone who I did this training with Shalott and we've been doing that for years. And I think it's a good way both to really be aware of what happened during the week. Did I accomplish what I planned? Also, what did I learn? And it's also a way to let go of the week, to get into the weekend in a good mood.
[17:49]
A
You might think chess is all in the head, but the world champion Magnus Carlsen is adamant that the body comes first.
[17:56]
M
If your body is fit, your mind is fit, you're going to perform better. I've probably been lazier in the last few years when it comes to, when it comes to fitness than, than I was before.
[18:09]
A
How many, how many times a week
[18:10]
I
do you work out?
[18:12]
M
I don't, I've like. I've never had a schedule much. So now nowadays I golf a lot. So I do get like my steps every single day. I play a bit of paddle. I do when I'm at home. I probably do like once a week strength workout, but I don't particularly like that. So I was definitely like fitter before When I was in my early 20s, I would win a lot of games purely on stamina because I was like, physically stronger.
[18:56]
A
And when a game starts slipping away from him, he has a way of getting back into it.
[19:00]
M
Then I have to try and reset completely. Like just take a minute to myself, like focus on breathing. Try and be somewhere else for, for a moment and, and see if I can get it back. But it's, yeah, it's, it's at that moment, it's, it's not easy. If you don't have a day to recover, then is usually hard to get back.
[19:31]
A
Which takes us to the mind itself. Ed Katzmull, co founder of Pixar and to quiet a brain that never stops, he goes to some length, or rather some long stretches of silence.
[19:44]
N
I was on one last week.
[19:46]
A
I know.
[19:52]
N
There are multiple parts to it, but one of them is to get yourself in a space where that part of your brain which is just running wild all the time, sort of calmed or trained. And initially when I did this, it was kind of scary because that part of the brain which is always chattering and talking, I always thought was me. And it was actually in slowing that down or stopping us to realize it isn't true. It's a tool I have. But when I slow that down, it's a calmer place to be. Part of our remarkable ability as humans is we react to danger, to real danger with chemicals in our body,
[20:55]
G
but
[20:55]
N
we also will imagine danger and react to that. So that leads to stress. And essentially what you're doing, you retreat, is you're sort of differentiating between the imagined and the real. So I've done two of them that have lasted for a month. A lot of people are afraid of the concept of being quiet. And so part of it is to realize, oh, there's nothing to be afraid of.
[21:23]
A
Jesper Bodin, who until recently ran ikea's largest business, found his own way to switch off, and it plugs into an amplifier. He's also refreshingly blunt about the myth that the route to success is working yourself into the ground.
[21:39]
D
For me, to be serious, I think music is a way of relaxing. So after a tough day at work or a tough week, if I get one hour with my electric guitar and to play a little bit, that's super relaxing. It's like totally disconnecting. It's a bit of meditation for me because you can't do that and have other thoughts in your head. So it's a way to clean your mind a little bit. And it's Also incredibly fun to play with others in the roles that we have, Also leading US CEOs of big organization and companies. You can get trapped in your own rabbit hole of your own importance, but also you can get stuck in your problems. And also, even in the worst case, the myth that if you gear up a little bit extra and work longer hours will be the sleep less, etc. That that would be the pathway to success, and obviously it's the opposite. You need to find ways to broaden
[22:30]
A
your perspective and recharge and to close the conversations. Adina Friedman, who runs Nasdaq, trains her mind in the most physical way imaginable. She's a black belt in Korean kickboxing. And the scary part is exactly the point.
[22:45]
O
The training part of Taekwondo, which is Korean kickboxing, is, in my opinion, the fun part. You know, the part that's hard, but fun. The sparring part of Taekwondo is the scary part. But at the same time, you have to put yourself in a position where you have to overcome fear. I think it's important as a person, I think it's important as a leader that you put yourself in a position to overcome fear. And Taekwondo is very good at that because I was very fearful of sparring. The second thing is the need to play offense and defense all the time. It's like chess. And I think chess is also another great skill to have if you're going to be a business leader, because you always have to remember every offensive move requires a defensive move at the same time. And so sparring, you can learn that really the hard way, because you get all excited. You're about to kick someone in the head and it feels great, and then they just punch you in the gut. I have a healthy fear gene, but the most important thing you can do is train yourself to overcome it.
[23:42]
A
And finally, since I make all of them tell me, it's only fair that I tell you what I do. I wake up early. I love the early morning. It's quiet. Nobody needs anything from me yet. And the whole day still feels full of possibility. And before I do anything else, I try to start with gratitude. Just a moment to be thankful for the people in my life, for the work I get to do, for being healthy. It sets the tone for everything that follows. Then, if I can, I get into the sea. We are lucky here in Norway. The fjord is cold all year round and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that wakes you up and clears your head, like throwing yourself in the freezing water and then straight into the sauna to warm up. Again. That contrast, the cold and then the heat resets me completely. And then my not so secret weapon, the afternoon nap. Somewhere in the middle of the day, or just after I close the door, lie down, and sleep for 20 minutes. People tease me about it, but I come back sharper, calmer, and ready for the second half of the day. Dan Pink would be proud. None of this is rocket science. Get up early, be grateful, move your body, get cold, get warm, and the rest when you need to. It works for me. And judging by the wonderful people you've just heard from, I'm in good company. Thanks for listening. And now, take care of yourself.

Summary6 min read

Podcast Summary: In Good Company with Nicolai Tangen
Episode: Bonus: How do CEO’s stay fit?
Date: July 29, 2026

Episode Overview

This special bonus episode gathers insights and personal routines from some of the world’s leading CEOs on how they stay fit, both physically and mentally. Nicolai Tangen, CEO of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund, compiles honest responses from various top executives—from their approaches to exercise and nutrition to sleep, cold exposure, meditation, and unique rituals that help them maintain performance at the highest level. While not a medical guide, the discussion reveals the individual habits and philosophies that help these leaders operate at their peak.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Fundamentals of Well-being: Vas Narasimhan’s Systematic Approach

Mindset, Movement, Nutrition, Recovery:
Vas Narasimhan (Novartis) structures his life around four pillars learned from his coach (01:15):
- Mindset: Daily mindfulness, meditation, and self-observation.
- Movement: Believes exercise resets the nervous system—essential for leadership decision-making.
- Nutrition: Lifelong vegetarianism, daily whey protein, experiments with supplements for optimal performance.
- Recovery: “Obsessed with trying to optimize sleep”— utilizes technology and supplementation for at least seven hours of quality sleep.
Quote:

“Over the years, I've learned that exercise can reset your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system… So much of leadership comes down to managing your nervous system.” (B, 01:46)

2. The Morning Workout as a Ritual

Bob Iger (Disney):
- Morning exercise is non-negotiable—“for sanity and vanity” (03:28).
- Workouts allow for mental clarity and setting priorities before the day’s chaos.
- Travels with routines intact, prefers quiet, early mornings.
- Bedtime: 10–11 PM.
Quote:

“I could not do this job if I were not in some form of physical…and even mental health.” (C, 03:48)
Stefano Domenicali (Formula One):
- Wakes at 5:30 AM, runs 8–10km most days while listening to Italian and pop music (05:31).
- Morning run is vital thinking time before an unpredictable work travel schedule.

3. Sleep and the Power of Recovery

Tan Su Shan (DBS):
- Advocates Arianna Huffington’s adage: “Sleep your way to the top”—good rest leads to optimal performance and promotions (06:32).
- Meditation learned through adversity helps her maintain perspective.
- Finds exercise and quiet time (yoga, podcasts, long runs) restorative.
Mark Schneider (Nestlé):
- “Trinity of nutrition, exercise and sleep” is foundational (09:34).
- Reads extensively on sleep’s importance, struggles with jet lag due to travel (09:51).

4. Minimalism and Extremes in Eating & Rituals

Jack Dorsey (Twitter, Block):
- Eats one meal a day; has experimented with all extremes to maximize time and energy (10:21).
- Sees fasting as giving back hours for deeper work and reflection.
- Practiced 10-day silent meditation retreats; now meditates for an hour every morning.
- Quote:
  
  “I got all this time back, it felt like a superpower.” (I, 10:48)
Ari Emanuel (TKO/UFC/WWE):
- Grueling daily regimen: 4:35am wake-up, 90-minute workout, alternating sauna and ice baths, quarterly multi-day fasts (14:40).
- Seeks out discomfort (ice baths, fasting) to build mental resilience for business.
- Quote:
  
  “Getting your mind, the ability for your mind to be able to handle uncomfortable... helps you in business too.” (K, 15:20)

5. Rest, Recharging, and Rituals

Karin Rostrom (Daimler Truck):
- Draws on elite athlete background—trail running, cross-country skiing, and mountain hikes as dual-purpose for fitness and mental reset (16:09).
- Emphasizes recovery and rituals: weekly reflective journaling as closure and mental clearing (17:09).
- Quote:
  
  “A lot of people underestimate the recovery part, but actually that's probably as important as delivering and being on…” (L, 16:52)
Magnus Carlsen (Chess World Champion):
- Believes physical fitness directly impacts mental performance (17:56).
- Formerly more regimented; now relies on daily activity (golf, paddle) and occasional strength training.
- Uses breathing techniques to reset during high-pressure games.

6. Mindfulness, Meditation & the Value of Switching Off

Dan Pink (Author):
- Offers the ‘perfect nap’—drink coffee, nap for 25 minutes; caffeine kicks in as nap ends, offering compounded alertness (08:03).
Jane Fraser (Citigroup):
- Focused on resilience—balancing nutrition, sleep, family, breathing (12:07).
- Uses diaphragmatic breathing as meditation to physically release tension and restore calm (12:42).
Ed Catmull (Pixar):
- Silent retreats of up to a month; uses long stretches of silence to slow the ‘chattering mind’ and reduce imagined stress (19:44).

7. Unusual Hobbies & Endurance

James Quincy (Coca Cola):
- Openly admits to trying cold-water swimming, finding enjoyment even as a novice (13:46).
- Advocates working at a manageable pace—life and leadership as a marathon, not a sprint (14:06).
Jesper Brodin (IKEA):
- Music (electric guitar) as a way to disconnect, recharge, and meditate—rejects the ‘work more/sleep less’ myth (21:38).

8. Challenging Yourself & Facing Fear

Adina Friedman (Nasdaq):
- Black belt in Korean kickboxing—emphasizes learning to deal with fear and the importance of offense and defense in both sports and business (22:45).
- Views sparring as training to overcome fear, a vital skill for corporate leadership.

9. Nicolai Tangen’s Own Routine

Morning gratitude: Sets a positive tone for the day.
Cold exposure: Sea swims in Norwegian fjords followed by sauna resets his mind and body.
Napping: Daily 20-minute naps for increased afternoon productivity.
Summary advice: “Get up early, be grateful, move your body, get cold, get warm, and the rest when you need to.”
(A, 23:41)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Vas Narasimhan:

“So much of leadership comes down to managing your nervous system... when you're more balanced... you're more likely to get all the inputs.” (B, 01:46)
Bob Iger:

“That morning time for me is rejuvenating…a way that I begin the day with more purpose.” (C, 03:58)
Tan Su Shan:

“If you have good sleep, you perform well, you do well, your company does well, you get promoted... It's a win win.” (F, 06:36)
Ari Emanuel:

“Doing three minutes in an ice bath ain't easy. Meditating in a very hot sauna… for your mind to be able to handle uncomfortable… helps you in business too...” (K, 15:20)
Karin Rostrom:

“A lot of people underestimate the recovery part... that's probably as important as delivering and being on when you're on the job.” (L, 16:52)
Jesper Brodin:

“…the myth that if you gear up a little bit extra and work longer hours... would be the pathway to success, and obviously it's the opposite.” (D, 22:19)
Adina Friedman:

“I think it's important as a person, I think it's important as a leader that you put yourself in a position to overcome fear.” (O, 23:00)
Nicolai Tangen:

“There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that wakes you up and clears your head, like throwing yourself in the freezing water and then straight into the sauna to warm up again.” (A, 23:41)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Vas Narasimhan’s Four Pillars: 01:15–03:16
Bob Iger’s Morning & Exercise Ritual: 03:28–05:22
Stefano Domenicali on Running & Music: 05:31–06:17
Tan Su Shan on Sleep & Meditation: 06:32–07:50
The Perfect Nap with Dan Pink: 08:03–08:47
Mark Schneider on Nutrition & Sleep: 08:57–09:51
Jack Dorsey’s One Meal a Day & Meditation: 10:21–11:57
Jane Fraser on Resilience & Breathing: 12:07–13:32
James Quincy on Cold-Water Swimming & Pacing: 13:46–14:27
Ari Emanuel’s Extreme Routines: 14:40–15:55
Karin Rostrom on Balance & Recovery: 16:09–17:48
Magnus Carlsen on Fitness & Performance: 17:56–18:55
Ed Catmull on Silence Retreats: 19:44–21:23
Jesper Brodin on Music & Relaxation: 21:38–22:30
Adina Friedman on Kickboxing & Fear: 22:45–23:41
Nicolai Tangen’s Routine & Reflections: 23:41–end

Takeaways

No single path: Each CEO crafts a routine that fits their life, but principles of physical exercise, good sleep, mindful recovery, and regular self-reflection are universal.
Discomfort is training: Several leaders proactively seek challenging routines (ice baths, fasting, sparring) to build both physical and mental toughness that transfers to business.
Importance of recovery: Rest, naps, and switching off are not weaknesses but the foundation of sustainable, high performance.
Unique rituals: From the Norwegian fjord swims to silent meditation retreats, personal quirks keep CEOs balanced outside the boardroom.

Overall:
Staying fit at the top is about much more than the gym—it’s a holistic, deliberate approach to mind and body, embracing both challenge and rest, and practicing gratitude and self-awareness every day.

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Transcript72 lines

[00:01]
A
Hi, everybody. I'm Nicola Tangen, the CEO of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund, and you are listening to In Good Company. Now, when you spend as much time as I do sitting across from chief executives, world champs, and some of the sharpest investors on our planet, you start to notice something. These people work incredibly hard, but almost all of them also quietly are obsessive about how they look after themselves. So somewhere in most of these conversations are I cannot help asking, when do you get up? Do you exercise? How do you sleep? And how on earth do you switch off? In this special episode, we have gathered some of the most fascinating of those answers. The exercise, the sleep, the cold water, the naps, the food, and the little rituals that keep our guests fit, sharp, and able to perform at the very top. None of them are doctors, so think of this as what works for them, not a prescription. But there is a surprising amount of wisdom packed into the next few minutes and one or two habits I've happily stolen myself. And right at the very, very end, I'll tell you what I do. Let's get into it. Let's start with a man who, more than anyone, has turned all of this into a system. Vas Narasimhan runs Novartis, one of the world's biggest pharmaceutical companies, and he organizes his whole life around four simple words
[01:16]
B
I got taught very early on from my coach that I work with today named Scott Pelton. This approach, mindset, movement, nutrition, and recovery. And I stick with it. So mindset, you know, clearly, mindfulness, meditation, observing yourself, observing why you think the things you think, why you feel the things you do, and then setting yourself up in the right mindset each day and for each interaction or each moment, even when I have to show up on the In Good Company podcast, you know, nutrition, you know, I think you have to think, why do you eat the things you eat? And how you eat will affect your performance, even in small ways. So something I always think about, obviously, movement. I mean, exercise has a lot of impact on the nervous system. Over the years, I've learned that exercise can reset your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system. By the way, so much of leadership comes down to managing your nervous system. You're likely not going to make a good decision when you're on high, sympathetic drive. When you're more balanced, parasitic, sympathetic, you're more likely to get all the inputs that you need. So observing that in yourself is. Is hugely important. And then recovery. I've learned over the years the power of sleep. I mean, I'm obsessed With trying to optimize my sleep. I've got, you know, technology, sleep technology, sleep supplements, all kinds of things to really say, how can I get seven plus hours of very high quality sleep and recover? And all of those things compound over time and then give you the energy.
[02:44]
A
And the nutrition part is delightfully specific.
[02:47]
B
I'm a lifelong vegetarian, so I've never had meat in my life. So, you know, that may be strange. Maybe not so strange. I eat whey protein every morning. Two scoops of whey protein every day. It's kind of a way I start my day. Nothing else magical I can think of. I mean, I do try some of the various supplements like Ashwagandha and some of this stuff. It's probably all a placebo effect, but nonetheless, I definitely test these things out.
[03:16]
A
If mindset comes first, movement comes a very close second. And nearly everyone starts the day with it. Bob Iger has run Disney through some of the biggest moments and he's clear that he simply couldn't do the job without it.
[03:29]
C
I think it's a lot of things. I think some of it is how you're wired, it's genes, some of it is how you have. You're prepared. So by staying in shape. Having stamina is critical for me, and that's eating well and exercising and just taking care of my body and my mind is really important. I could not do this job if I were not in some form of physical and even mental health. One could argue that I'm not getting enough sleep, but that morning time for me is rejuvenating. Actually. First of all, it's meditative, it's quiet. The stimulation that exists in my life when it's still dark out and no one else is up, is toned down. And so I get a chance to be alone with my thoughts. And that gives me an opportunity to order things, meaning to figure out an order and a set of priorities. It's a way that I begin the day with more purpose. Instead of waking up and suddenly being bombarded by all the incoming that comes my way, I can attack the world and the day just with a little bit more organization. I have a cup of coffee first and then I put on my workout clothes that I work out at the house almost every day. And I do the same thing when I'm in a hotel anywhere in the world. I work out for about an hour every morning, sometimes less, but rarely less than 45 minutes. And it's again, I like to say that it's for sanity and vanity purposes. It enables me As I said, to clear my head. But I also, you know, enables and better prepare my mind and my body for the. For the job at hand.
[05:17]
D
Sure.
[05:18]
A
When do you go to bed?
[05:19]
C
I go to bed between 10 and 11 most nights.
[05:23]
A
Stefano Domenicali, the boss of Formula One, turns that morning workout into thinking time up before sunrise, out of the door, music on.
[05:31]
E
I wake up at 5:30, 5:30.
[05:34]
A
What do you do then?
[05:35]
E
Run every day? Yeah, if it's not ugly weather. Yes. I go around to around 8km, 10km per day. It's the only time that I have free so I can listen to music because I love music and I'm trying to think what I should do during the day. And then I come back in the work here and then I go back home if I'm not around the world because I tell you my schedule, maybe you don't believe it, but I believe it. If I tell you what I did in the last months, you cannot believe it. So. So I go back around 8 to have dinner with my wife. Yeah. And see our kids.
[06:09]
A
And when you run, what kind of music do you listen to?
[06:12]
E
Well, I normally listen to Italian music and pop music.
[06:18]
A
All that early movement only works, of course, if you've actually slept. Tan Su Shan, who runs Singapore's bank dbs, points to a line she once heard from Arianna Huffington that only half jokingly, you should sleep your way to the top.
[06:32]
F
What she obviously meant was if you have good sleep, you perform well.
[06:36]
A
Absolutely.
[06:37]
F
You perform well, you do well, your company does well, you get promoted, your company does well, the company, you know, goes up in value. It's a win win situation for everyone
[06:47]
A
and it's part of a bigger picture for her meditation she first learned in a hard moment and exercise she now uses to clear her head.
[06:55]
F
I had a bat spat in my life in my mid to late 20s when I lost my job, I lost my home, I lost my then relationship and I thought my world was going to crumble down upon me. And that's when I learned some friends of mine taught me to meditate because it enabled me to see myself as a third party, to see the world as it was and to realize, you know what, calm yourself down, the world isn't so bad. You got your health, you got your family, got your friends. So whilst I don't have a lot of time to meditate nowadays, I should do, I do have, I mean I do yoga, I go for long runs, I listen to a lot of podcasts. Those quiet moments, I think when you take yourself out of your everyday, you know, noise gives you perspective.
[07:51]
A
Now, everyone who knows me know that I'm a great believer in the afternoon nap. So I was thrilled when author Dan Pink, who has actually studied this, talked me through what he calls the perfect nap.
[08:03]
G
That is the scientifically optimal nap where you. I've done this on bad days. I'm not a huge napper, but I will. And this is what I do is I sit in a chair in my office, I drink a cup of coffee. Okay, I don't even enjoy it. I actually just put ice cubes in hot coffee. Guzzle it. Okay, 25 minutes. And I set my timer on my phone for 25 minutes. I close my eyes, I put in noise canceling headphones, I close my eyes, I put my feet on an ottoman. And I can usually fall asleep in it depends, you know, seven, eight minutes. But here's the key. It takes about 25 minutes for caffeine to enter your bloodstream. And so when I wake up, not only do I have the restorative smoke power of the nap, but I have
[08:47]
A
the added caffeine onto food. Mark Schneider spent years running Nestle, so when he tells me how he starts the morning, it's worth a listen.
[08:57]
H
I consider myself a flexitarian and that means I don't really believe in a whole lot of restrictions. But over the years I noticed that I have dialed down meat consumption quite a bit. In fact, at home I rarely cook meat at all because when you travel, you know, there's so many occasions when you get served meat. I also believe in a large intake of fruit and vegetables. Usually I try to shoot for 10 to 15 a day.
[09:24]
G
Oh wow.
[09:24]
H
And I'm a strong believer in vegetable juicing. So that's how I start the morning, on a self made vegetable juice. And those are my secrets.
[09:32]
A
And he ties it to a wider philosophy.
[09:34]
H
At the moment I'm reading about the importance of sleep. So a book called why we Sleep that came out a few years ago, very good to me. When it comes to health, it's about the trinity of nutrition, exercise and sleep.
[09:49]
A
Have you got any bad habits?
[09:52]
H
Well, when it comes to sleep, I think jet lag is my middle name. And so like all cloak trotting executives, I think this is something that you preciously have to watch because if you don't watch it, then time zones or the world around you will simply bite into the sleep budget and you pay the price.
[10:10]
A
Over time, Mark dials the meat down. Jack Dorsey goes a good deal further. The man behind Twitter. And now Block eats once a day and talks about it like he's discovered free time.
[10:21]
I
I like to learn by going to extremes. So I've tried every single diet you can imagine. I got very interested in my health and maintaining my health span. And one of the things someone was doing that felt interesting was they had this one meal a day thing. And I tried it and I only ate dinner, and then I only ate breakfast and I only tried lunch. And what was amazing is like I got all this time back and it felt like a superpower. All these people spent all this time eating breakfast and eating lunch and dinner and all this ritual around it. And I had all that time back, I had literally two or three hours back to do something else or to have a real conversation that's not interrupted by food. And then I realized I didn't need that much food. Like, we overeat. We definitely overeat, especially in the United States. And I felt like my health increased, my energy increased, and I gave myself all this time back to do things that I really wanted to do. And. And when I did eat, it tasted amazing.
[11:25]
A
He's just as committed to quieting the mind.
[11:28]
I
I was. I was doing a 10 day silent meditation retreat every year for five years before COVID And then that was 10 days of like, you don't speak, you don't. All you do is meditate from 4 in the morning till 9pm no phone, no communication, no exercise, whatever. So during COVID all the centers closed and I haven't gone back yet. But I meditate every day for like an hour when I get up or attempt.
[11:58]
A
All that talk of food is really for Jane Fraser, the chief executive of Citigroup, about one thing, resilience. And she works at it deliberately, making
[12:08]
J
sure that I eat well. I try and make sure I get enough sleep. I make sure I have time for my family as well. You've got good emotional, physical and spiritual resilience because it takes a lot.
[12:23]
A
How much do you sleep?
[12:25]
J
I try and get seven hours every night. Jet lag's not wonderful. And as I get older, I discover that it is harder to recover from jet lag than it used to be.
[12:33]
A
Her real secret, though, is something most of us never taught how to breathe properly. She uses it as her form of meditation.
[12:42]
J
What I do is I practice good breathing techniques. I had a coach a while ago that taught me how to breathe properly and that's actually made a huge difference. It, in a way, is a form of meditation because it gets your body in a better, more relaxed shape. To take things. It is sitting properly with your feet on the ground that you're sitting up straight and you feel that there's a sort of alignment in your body down through your core and then you just breathe out, not up in your chest but down in the. Down almost in the belly. Because if you're breathing up here, that's usually you're holding your body quite tense, whereas down here is where in your core is where a lot of the, you know, a lot of your strength and energy comes from, from calming the
[13:33]
A
body to shocking it awake. Here in Norway we are rather fond of throwing ourselves into cold water. So I was pleased to discover I'm not alone. James Quincy, the boss of Coca Cola has taken it up too, with no illusions about his talent for it.
[13:47]
G
I've become a part of the sad or not so sad train to trying the swimming in cold water. And I found out I had to Google how fast I was and see whether it was any good. And I was really slow, unbelievably slow, like right down at Novice. And I'm like, okay.
[14:03]
I
But it was fun.
[14:04]
A
He also has a nice way of thinking about pace.
[14:07]
G
Life is a marathon. You can have periods of working insanely hard, but it's hard to live your whole life at that pace. Life is not a set of sprints, it's a marathon. Now some people can run a lot faster than other people, but you've got to pace yourself, particularly when you get to be kind of CEO.
[14:27]
A
I think if James eases himself in. Ari Emanuel, the Hollywood super agent who now runs tko, goes all the way. His routine is by his own admission, a little crazy.
[14:41]
K
4:35 o', clock, I work out for an hour and a half. Sauna, iceberg. I mean it's just, it just, it is. Over the years it's gotten crazier and crazier. I have one every day. So I do, I do 20 minutes and I do three minutes in the ice bath.
[14:56]
A
And for him the discomfort is the whole point.
[14:59]
K
Doing three minutes in an ice bath ain't easy. Meditating in a very hot sauna, you know, one of my things in my, in my. Why I do these things for my health. You know, today I'm on a 24 hour fast. Every quarter I do a three day fast. Getting your mind, the ability for your mind to be able to handle uncomfortable also on, on a personal level for your health helps you in business too because it, and you know, kind of putting barriers around yourself of what you can and can't do and that that also helps even though it's for your health, it also helps in your business decision making and your ability to. To kind of be the ability to endure the aggravation. And you realize this too will pass and it's not going to kill you and you're going to work through it.
[15:56]
A
From extremes back to balance. Karin Rostrom, now chief executive of Daimler Truck, was once on the Swedish national rowing team. And she's never lost the athlete's respect for the other half of training, namely recovery.
[16:10]
L
First of all, it's family time. Second of all, being in the mountains, I mean, I do sports, so now I'm doing a lot of trail running in the winter, cross country skiing or touring. That both makes me recharge because I get to move physically and also just being in nature. I think there's something special about that makes you not think about work. And I believe that actually that's also one of the learnings from rowing is this balance between performance and recovery. That's the same in CEO life. And I think a lot of people underestimate the recovery part. But actually that's probably as important as delivering and being on when you're on the job is recovering and recharging when you're off the job.
[17:07]
A
She even has a weekly ritual for it.
[17:09]
L
Either it's Friday night or Saturday morning, I sit down and I write. What happened? What did I feel? What did I learn? I share that actually with someone who I did this training with Shalott and we've been doing that for years. And I think it's a good way both to really be aware of what happened during the week. Did I accomplish what I planned? Also, what did I learn? And it's also a way to let go of the week, to get into the weekend in a good mood.
[17:49]
A
You might think chess is all in the head, but the world champion Magnus Carlsen is adamant that the body comes first.
[17:56]
M
If your body is fit, your mind is fit, you're going to perform better. I've probably been lazier in the last few years when it comes to, when it comes to fitness than, than I was before.
[18:09]
A
How many, how many times a week
[18:10]
I
do you work out?
[18:12]
M
I don't, I've like. I've never had a schedule much. So now nowadays I golf a lot. So I do get like my steps every single day. I play a bit of paddle. I do when I'm at home. I probably do like once a week strength workout, but I don't particularly like that. So I was definitely like fitter before When I was in my early 20s, I would win a lot of games purely on stamina because I was like, physically stronger.
[18:56]
A
And when a game starts slipping away from him, he has a way of getting back into it.
[19:00]
M
Then I have to try and reset completely. Like just take a minute to myself, like focus on breathing. Try and be somewhere else for, for a moment and, and see if I can get it back. But it's, yeah, it's, it's at that moment, it's, it's not easy. If you don't have a day to recover, then is usually hard to get back.
[19:31]
A
Which takes us to the mind itself. Ed Katzmull, co founder of Pixar and to quiet a brain that never stops, he goes to some length, or rather some long stretches of silence.
[19:44]
N
I was on one last week.
[19:46]
A
I know.
[19:52]
N
There are multiple parts to it, but one of them is to get yourself in a space where that part of your brain which is just running wild all the time, sort of calmed or trained. And initially when I did this, it was kind of scary because that part of the brain which is always chattering and talking, I always thought was me. And it was actually in slowing that down or stopping us to realize it isn't true. It's a tool I have. But when I slow that down, it's a calmer place to be. Part of our remarkable ability as humans is we react to danger, to real danger with chemicals in our body,
[20:55]
G
but
[20:55]
N
we also will imagine danger and react to that. So that leads to stress. And essentially what you're doing, you retreat, is you're sort of differentiating between the imagined and the real. So I've done two of them that have lasted for a month. A lot of people are afraid of the concept of being quiet. And so part of it is to realize, oh, there's nothing to be afraid of.
[21:23]
A
Jesper Bodin, who until recently ran ikea's largest business, found his own way to switch off, and it plugs into an amplifier. He's also refreshingly blunt about the myth that the route to success is working yourself into the ground.
[21:39]
D
For me, to be serious, I think music is a way of relaxing. So after a tough day at work or a tough week, if I get one hour with my electric guitar and to play a little bit, that's super relaxing. It's like totally disconnecting. It's a bit of meditation for me because you can't do that and have other thoughts in your head. So it's a way to clean your mind a little bit. And it's Also incredibly fun to play with others in the roles that we have, Also leading US CEOs of big organization and companies. You can get trapped in your own rabbit hole of your own importance, but also you can get stuck in your problems. And also, even in the worst case, the myth that if you gear up a little bit extra and work longer hours will be the sleep less, etc. That that would be the pathway to success, and obviously it's the opposite. You need to find ways to broaden
[22:30]
A
your perspective and recharge and to close the conversations. Adina Friedman, who runs Nasdaq, trains her mind in the most physical way imaginable. She's a black belt in Korean kickboxing. And the scary part is exactly the point.
[22:45]
O
The training part of Taekwondo, which is Korean kickboxing, is, in my opinion, the fun part. You know, the part that's hard, but fun. The sparring part of Taekwondo is the scary part. But at the same time, you have to put yourself in a position where you have to overcome fear. I think it's important as a person, I think it's important as a leader that you put yourself in a position to overcome fear. And Taekwondo is very good at that because I was very fearful of sparring. The second thing is the need to play offense and defense all the time. It's like chess. And I think chess is also another great skill to have if you're going to be a business leader, because you always have to remember every offensive move requires a defensive move at the same time. And so sparring, you can learn that really the hard way, because you get all excited. You're about to kick someone in the head and it feels great, and then they just punch you in the gut. I have a healthy fear gene, but the most important thing you can do is train yourself to overcome it.
[23:42]
A
And finally, since I make all of them tell me, it's only fair that I tell you what I do. I wake up early. I love the early morning. It's quiet. Nobody needs anything from me yet. And the whole day still feels full of possibility. And before I do anything else, I try to start with gratitude. Just a moment to be thankful for the people in my life, for the work I get to do, for being healthy. It sets the tone for everything that follows. Then, if I can, I get into the sea. We are lucky here in Norway. The fjord is cold all year round and there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that wakes you up and clears your head, like throwing yourself in the freezing water and then straight into the sauna to warm up. Again. That contrast, the cold and then the heat resets me completely. And then my not so secret weapon, the afternoon nap. Somewhere in the middle of the day, or just after I close the door, lie down, and sleep for 20 minutes. People tease me about it, but I come back sharper, calmer, and ready for the second half of the day. Dan Pink would be proud. None of this is rocket science. Get up early, be grateful, move your body, get cold, get warm, and the rest when you need to. It works for me. And judging by the wonderful people you've just heard from, I'm in good company. Thanks for listening. And now, take care of yourself.