HIGHLIGHTS: Lars Strannegård

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: In Good Company with Nicolai Tangen
Guest: Lars Strannegård, Dean of the Stockholm School of Economics
Release Date: March 7, 2025
Episode Theme:
Nicolai Tangen interviews Lars Strannegård about his innovative leadership at the Stockholm School of Economics. The conversation delves into redefining business education through cultural integration, the concept of "bildung," the traits of effective leaders, and the challenges and opportunities AI brings to higher education.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of Culture in Business Education

• Why culture matters ([00:29]):
  Lars Strannegård explains that culture at the Stockholm School of Economics means engaging with arts, literature, and music. This exposure helps students "see the world from new perspectives" and opens their senses to learning.

  • “Art can actually serve as a sort of intellectual and emotional itching powder to make you understand the world in another way and also increase your humbleness.” – Lars Strannegård [01:14]

• Culture’s impact on learning environment ([01:36]):
  Strannegård emphasizes that an environment enriched with culture awakens feelings and perception, making learning more engaging and opening up new roads to creativity.

2. Fostering Creativity and Openness

• Creativity through exposure ([02:20]):
  Creativity is enhanced by combining familiar things in new ways, which happens when students broaden their perspectives.
  • “If you just walk on the track that you’ve always been walking on, you won’t come up with new ideas.” – Lars Strannegård [02:51]

3. Bildung vs. Ausbildung

• Explaining 'bildung' ([03:18]):
  The German concept of "bildung," and its Scandinavian equivalent, refers to the deeper maturation and approach to the world that remains after factual knowledge fades.
  • “Bildung is that which is left after you’ve forgotten what you’ve learned.” – Lars Strannegård [03:31]

4. Stockholm School's Educational Mission: FREE

Strannegård explains the school's mission acronym "FREE," encapsulating their approach to modern education ([04:01]):

• F: Fact and science-based approach
  • Vital in an era where generative AI can fabricate information.
  • “We’re living in some kind of ontological crisis where you don’t know that what you see actually exists.” – Lars Strannegård [04:21]
• R: Reflective and self-aware
  • Encouraging students to question data sources and internalized opinions.
• E: Empathetic and culturally literate
  • The arts are used to boost empathy and understanding of different cultures.
• E: Entrepreneurial and responsible
  • Students are urged to take action and exercise agency.
• "If you go into the world being fact-based, reflective, empathetic and entrepreneurial, it’s sort of a vaccination to getting stuck in mental models and theories..." – Lars Strannegård [05:21]

5. Leadership Insights: Common Traits of Great Leaders

• Observations from experience ([06:02]):
  Strannegård highlights authenticity and the ability to create meaning as core traits shared by effective leaders.
  • “That it matters to you, that you’re not playing a game... that it’s your true self speaking and being there.” – Lars Strannegård [06:25]

6. The Case for Interdisciplinary Education

• Beyond business backgrounds ([07:03]):
  Both Strannegård and Tangen argue the value of hiring and working with people from non-business backgrounds (e.g., historians, theologians).
  • “Every type of education... is a bit like watching the sky through a straw. And you need to have many straws nowadays in order to understand the world.” – Lars Strannegård [07:52]

7. AI’s Transformative Role in Education

• AI's impact on learning & assessment ([08:07]):
  The rise of generative AI challenges traditional testing and the educator’s role, as AI often outperforms humans cognitively.
• What should universities teach? ([09:29]):
  Strannegård stresses the importance of sharpening “human intelligence”:
  • Empathy
  • Sense-making
  • Contextualization
  • Language skills
  • “Machines are great at being machines... but they are not human. And they can’t beat us in being human.” – Lars Strannegård [09:34]
  • “Educational institutions should really help students to develop their human intelligence... How do we become even better humans as the machines are becoming better at what they’re doing?” – Lars Strannegård [09:50]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On culture as “itching powder”:
  “Art can actually serve as a sort of intellectual and emotional itching powder to make you understand the world in another way and also increase your humbleness.” – Lars Strannegård [01:14]

• On the limits of traditional education:
  “Every type of education... is a bit like watching the sky through a straw. And you need to have many straws nowadays in order to understand the world.” – Lars Strannegård [07:52]

• On human vs. artificial intelligence:
  “Machines are great at being machines... but they are not human. And they can’t beat us in being human.” – Lars Strannegård [09:34]

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Timeline of Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:29 | Introduction of culture at SSE and its impact | | 01:36 | The role of culture in learning environments | | 02:20 | How exposure enhances creativity | | 03:18 | Defining and discussing 'bildung' | | 04:01 | The 'FREE' educational mission explained | | 06:02 | Traits of great leaders | | 07:03 | The value of interdisciplinary backgrounds | | 08:07 | AI’s disruptive influence on education | | 09:29 | How universities should adapt; focusing on "human" skills |

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Tone

The tone of the episode is thoughtful, curious, and slightly philosophical, with both host and guest sharing a strong belief in curiosity, open-mindedness, and the need for education to keep pace (and stay human) in a rapidly changing world.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, everybody. Tune in to this short version of the podcast, which we do every Friday. For the long version, tune in on Wednesdays.

[B]

Hi, everybody.

[A]

I'm Nicola Tangen, the CEO of the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund. And today we have a very, very special guest. Lars Stranagor is a dean of Stockholm School of Economics, which is one of the finest business schools in Europe. And, Lars, you have revolutionized the Stockholm School of Economics and we are going to talk about that today. So warm welcome.

[B]

Thanks so much. Great to be here.

[A]

Now, one of the big things you have done is really to introduce culture and learnings about culture into the school. Why is culture important in business education?

[B]

Because when we say culture, we mean arts, we mean literature and also music. But basically the idea behind that is to open up your senses, to contextualize, to make you see the world from new perspectives. And it's actually, you know, many business school students believe that they know how the world functions and how it operates.

[A]

And you think they don't?

[B]

Well, I think they're there to learn, right? So I think it's a good idea to expose them to things that they don't really understand, where they start asking themselves questions, where you actually sort of widen the blinders that we all have, not just students. And art can actually serve as a sort of intellectual and emotional itching powder to make you understand the world in another way and also increase your humbleness. You become more humble if you see things that you don't understand and learn to live with it.

[A]

What does culture do to the learning environment and the ability to learn and absorb?

[B]

Well, I think it sort of increases the knowledge intensity. It's kind of simple. I mean, if you are in a. If you sit in a bunker, it's not inspiring. And if you are in an environment that sort of. It sort of awakens your feelings, also your perception and your attention, it makes it sort of interesting. And art can also. I mean, it communicates to you not just cognitively, but also emotionally. So thereby, I think there are sort of more trajectories or sort of roads open to learning and creativity.

[A]

What does it do? It's kind of a leading question because I agree with your view here. But what do you. Just to spell it out, what do you think it does to creativity?

[B]

I think it of course, enhances your creativity.

[A]

And why is that?

[B]

Because creativity is basically all about combining things that are usually well known, but in new ways. So if you sort of open the freeways that you have in your brain and in your connections to others.

[A]

It'S.

[B]

More probable that you come up with new things. It's sort of if you just walk on the track that you've always been walking on, you won't come up with new ideas. But if you are exposed to and sort of urged to see the world in new ways, it creates something new.

[A]

In German or in German language, you split between ausbildung and bildung. I'm not sure we have a good word for it in the Scandinavian language.

[B]

Yeah, we do actually. In Scandinavian we do, we have. And bildning, but English does not have it.

[A]

Right. And you basically educate the leaders of tomorrow. Why is it important for future leaders to have bildung?

[B]

Bildung is that which is left after you've forgotten what you've learned. So that means that what you've forgotten what you've learned. I mean, we all do that. We forget lots of things, right? What years, things happened, et cetera. But what's left is an approach to the world and a stance to the world and a way that you approach it. So it's sort of a position more than a goal.

[A]

And the stuff that you are doing, how does that make bildung better?

[B]

Well, it does, because what we do is to try to. We have an educational mission that we abbreviate as free F R, E E. And the F stands for fact and science based approach. Completely key in this world, right? Especially in the age of generative AI, when truths are not what they used to be because they can now be fabricated and you cannot believe your eyes or your ears anymore. So we're living in some kind of ontological crisis where you don't know that what you see actually exists. So practicing that your fact and science based mindset is key. And then the R stands for reflective and self aware. So sort of asking yourself, you know, where does this piece of data come from? Who benefits from this? And where do my attitudes, my opinions and even my feelings come from? Are they my own or are they produced by somebody else and then internalized by me? So I think they're my own important things to do, right? And then the first E stands for empathetic and culturally literate. And that's sort of why we use the arts in order to create this or enhance your empathy and your cultural literacy. And then the final E stands for entrepreneurial and responsible, which means that you actually do something. You have agency. So this abbreviation, free, that is our definition of, of Bildnung. So if you have that approach, if you go into the world being fact based, reflective Empathetic and entrepreneurial. It's sort of a vaccination to getting stuck in mental models and theories that used to be true but perhaps no longer are. So thereby it's sort of an approach to ensure some kind of lifelong learning. And that's exactly what you need in this world that's changing so quickly. And everything you thought was true just a week or two ago has proven not to be. So you have to be able to shift your mindset to not sort of get stuck in the models that you used to operate by.

[A]

What do you think are the traits that you are seeing in great leaders? Do you spend time observing great leaders?

[B]

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, absolutely.

[A]

And when you abstract it down, what do they have in common? Why are the best ones very good?

[B]

I think it's. I mean, if you were really condensing it to a couple of terms, I would say authenticity. I mean, that you actually believe that what they're saying is what they think. And that's not the same thing as not lying nota bene, but actually being authentic in what you want to do. And that people feel that this is. That it matters to you, that you're not playing a game, that you're not sort of politically correct, whatever that means, but sort of that it's your true self speaking and being there. I think that's absolutely key. I also think, I mean, being able to create a sense of meaning, you know, to make people understand and feel that they're part of something that's greater than themselves.

[A]

You wrote a book called and you there talk about the importance of hiring people who do not have a business background. And indeed, in my previous life I worked with historians and people who had studied theology and all these kind of things, and they were the best investors and the best financial brains I've seen. So should one actually study business?

[B]

In the book I say that you should study business, but that's not enough. You have to sort of open your mind as well.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I mean, I love the business school that I'm heading, of course, and I think the subjects we need are extremely important because they are ways of understanding the world. But it's all about, again, really sort of expanding the blinders that we have. I mean, every type of education, it's specialized, right? So it's a bit like watching the sky through a straw. And you need to have many straws nowadays in order to understand the world that we're living in.

[A]

How will AI change education already? How does it already change?

[B]

It already has. I mean, in every way. But fundamentally, I mean, we know that cognitively the artificial intelligence actually outperforms us quite a bit. So it really changes. And all over the world, university or educators are now trying to understand and think hard about how do we actually secure learning? Can we do the same type of tests that we used to do? Can we do take home exams? Do we need to pull out the plug and not let them use their computers? Should we only do handwriting, should we only do oral exams, et cetera? But it's kind of futile, all this, because fundamentally generative AI and AI is here to stay. Our students don't even use Google anymore, right? They use generative AI. And I think it poses much more fundamental questions that are about knowledge in itself. So what is a university to do when it's got a student for three years or sometimes even five years? What should you learn? What's the purpose of it all and.

[A]

What should you learn?

[B]

I think fundamentally it's about the division of labor between machines and, and human beings, because machines are great at being machines. You know, we can't beat them in being machines, but they are not human. And they can't beat us in being human because they are. It's artificial intelligence, it's not human intelligence. So I think educational institutions should really help students to develop their human intelligence. And in that is of course included to understand how AI operates and be sort of able to interact with AI, but then also developing your human skills. So developing your empathy, developing your sense making, your understanding of the world, your contextualization capabilities, your language skills, all these things that AI is doing but not doing to the same extent. So it's basically trying to how do we become even better humans as the machines are becoming better at what they're doing?