In Good Faith With Philip DeFranco

Episode: Jon Lovett Spills on Graham Platner's Scandals

Date: October 23, 2025

Guest: Jon Lovett (Pod Save America, Lovett or Leave It; former Obama speechwriter)
Host/Co-host: Philip DeFranco

Brief Overview

This episode centers on the ongoing Graham Platner controversy—including his past, the Nazi tattoo revelation, and its implications—as well as the broader tension within modern American politics. Jon Lovett and Philip DeFranco dive into redemption, purity tests, the challenges faced by the Democratic Party, the peculiarities of political communication, and reflections on their own journeys. The conversation is notably candid, balancing detailed analysis with personal insight, and ends with meta-commentary about honesty, political utility, and the role of communicators.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Graham Platner Scandal and Redemption

• Background & Context:
  Platner's unusual life arc—from military service, problematic online behavior, to oyster farming and political ambitions (01:29).

• Nazi Tattoo Controversy:

  • Lovett summarizes Platner’s explanation (01:29–06:00):
    • Platner did not know the tattoo was Nazi-related at the time; was a drunken, impulsive act in Croatia.
    • Cleared army background checks and had it covered up once controversy erupted.
    • Shared evidence (e.g., shirtless at a Jewish wedding) that seemed inconsistent with intentional Nazi sympathy.

• Responses and the Apology Debate:

  • Lovett argues for accountability but also cautions against toxic, never-ending condemnation (06:00–08:00):
    • "If we don't allow for a politics in which apologies can be real, it means that people are always defined by their worst moments..." (06:00, Lovett)
    • The need for society to leave open the possibility of change, else “people will prove you right” by never trying.

• Nuance vs. Online Outrage:

  • Dangers of "pile-on" and "purity testing" cultures are discussed (08:14–10:07).
  • Online outrage cycles reduce issues to simplistic sides, destroy context, and reward anger over nuance.
    • "All I can say is I think we gotta fight that. And what’s great is you can actually do that yourself." (09:52, Lovett)

2. The Politics of Outrage, Accountability, and Internet Dynamics

• Algorithmic News & Echo Chambers:

  • Both Philip and Jon reflect on how personalized online feeds distort the scale and seriousness of news (01:08–01:10).

• Offline vs. Online Compassion:

  • Lovett contends that real-world people are generally more nuanced and generous than their online personas (10:34).

3. Campaign Fallout and Democratic Strategy

• How Will Platner's Campaign Be Affected?
  • Lovett refuses to predict outcomes, noting more opposition research could yet surface; Platner’s compelling but Mills is “proven” (14:07).
  • Worries about the long-term effects of the Democratic Party not investing in fresh talent, and being left with only "the old guard" (15:35, 16:51).

4. Structural Democratic Party Problems

• Why Can't Democrats Win Rural States?

  • Lovett laments the gap between successful Democratic ballot policies in red states and candidate failures (18:30).
    • "It is often easier for Democrats to imagine...America becoming a completely different authoritarian country more easily than we can Democrats winning 60 seats in the Senate." (19:19, Lovett)

• Leadership Stagnation:

  • Frustration at the party’s aging leadership and lack of dynamic communicators able to reach broader, rural audiences (17:01–20:02).

5. Media Asymmetry and "What If Obama" Syndrome

• Unequal Reactions:

  • Obama’s "scandals" (tan suit, mustard on burger) vs. Trump’s overt abuses underscores the double standard (21:26–23:31).
    • "Donald Trump puts out a video where he's shooting diarrhea out of an airplane on Americans. No comparable reaction." (21:26, Lovett)

• Republicans as Outsiders:

  • GOP successfully painted the mainstream media as liberal, becoming "outsiders" even in national discourse, which has real impacts (23:00–24:16).

6. Messaging in the Trump Era and Policy Fights

• What Stories Should Democrats Push?

  • Lovett suggests it's pointless to focus on “distraction” framing—a decentralized media universe means all news is niche and algorithmically dispersed (24:30–26:55).
    • "You gotta figure out a way to ride these waves of attention wherever they go." (25:06, Lovett)

• Is Anything Not as Bad as Expected?

  • Mixed feelings: Trump administration is more aggressive than anticipated but Lovett isn’t moved much by symbolic issues like the White House ballroom (27:09–30:07).

7. Shifts in Public Opinion and the Dem Brand

• Resistance to Trump Not Popular:

  • Major Trump agenda items are not mass movements; “No Kings” protests demonstrate broad anti-authoritarian sentiment (30:56).
    • Polling shows greater pro-immigration sentiment emerging in response to Trump's crackdown.

• Democratic Messaging Challenges:

  • The Democratic brand is “hurting”—leaders need to offer more than just “Trump Bad.”
  • Lovett cites growing Democratic approval during the shutdown tied to seeing leaders willing to fight (34:34).

8. Building a Pro-Democracy Coalition

• Coalition Building Is Key:
  • “Mass mobilization” against authoritarianism is the only antidote; must include broad alliances from center-right to far-left, unions, religious groups, nonprofits, and ordinary citizens (34:34–38:47).
  • Democracy as "practice": listening, being open, generous, vulnerable.

9. On Democratic Leadership and Strategy

• Is Chuck Schumer Underestimated?
  • Lovett concedes Schumer's strategic fight over healthcare in the shutdown has been effective, even if Schumer is not an ideal opposition communicator (39:02–41:20).

10. When MAGA Politicians Make Sense

• Marjorie Taylor Greene's Moment:
  • Surprised by MTG’s articulate comments on healthcare; notes that ideologically motivated figures occasionally land on the right side, even if generally wrong (41:45).

11. Personal & Professional Reflections

• What Drew Lovett to Politics?

  • Motivated by anger, desire to please, and as a closeted kid, politics let him vent without confronting personal truths (44:37).
    • "You could be mad about politics...never have to say, like, and, oh by the way, it's because I'm afraid to say that I'm attracted to men." (44:44, Lovett)

• Formative Experience: FactTrack at Williams College

  • Pioneering professor review site brought faculty backlash; preview of later free speech and power dynamics in politics and platforms (46:07–49:19).

• White House Speechwriting Moments:

  • Most meaningful: crafting speeches during the Obamacare fight, notably referencing Natoma, a woman whose healthcare struggles Obama highlighted (49:41–50:44).

• Impact: Inside vs. Outside

  • Lovett doesn't compare speechwriting vs. media work in terms of impact; sees himself as facilitating communication and agency rather than holding the answers (51:10–54:55).

• Current Voices Lovett Follows:

  • Praises The Bulwark (center-right anti-Trump Republicans) for principled dissent, and Mehdi Hasan for passion and confrontation (55:13).

• What Most People Misunderstand About Politics:

  • Many are drawn out of a need for validation and never question their motivations; it explains flip-flops and irrational behaviors (57:23).
    • "I think there's a lot of people that just have, like, unexamined motivations..." (58:38, Lovett)

• Biggest Personal Challenge:

  • How to be productive as a political communicator: not just chasing Trump, balancing honesty with helpfulness, knowing when to critique allies (60:15–62:49).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Redemption and Apologies in Politics
  "If we don't allow for a politics in which apologies can be real, it means that people are always defined by their worst moments. And we don't give people the space to become better."
  (06:00, Jon Lovett)

• On Simplicity vs. Nuance Online
  "So much of what the politics through the current kind of noisy algorithmic media does is it kind of... just rips out context and destroys nuance and like just rewards people for being pretty simplistic..."
  (09:43, Jon Lovett)

• On the Double Standard for Politicians “Barack Obama put his feet on the desk… wore a tan suit… Trump puts out a video where he's shooting diarrhea out of an airplane on Americans. No comparable reaction.”
  (21:26, Jon Lovett)

• On Democratic Party Strategy
  “There's a problem of Democrats not investing in talent. And then when the time comes to run elections, saying, well, I guess it’s just the old guard then... the greater risk over time is a Democratic Party that is not investing in its future.”
  (16:51, Jon Lovett)

• On Activism and the Pro-Democracy Movement
  "It's about using our power not just as voters, but as employees, employers, students, members of clubs and groups, people that are part of a community… Like, that's the muscle we need to kind of work."
  (36:00, Jon Lovett)

• On Republicans vs. Democrats in the Media
  "Republicans have seen for decades the mainstream media as being against them. And that's not totally fair, but... Democrats had agency... and Republicans were these outsiders..."
  (23:00, Jon Lovett)

• On the Challenge of Political Communication
  "I want to be as honest as I possibly can about how I feel, while at the same time knowing that sometimes the biggest fucking assholes in life are people that say, 'I'm just being honest.'"
  (61:10, Jon Lovett)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Graham Platner Scandal and Redemption: 01:08–10:07
• Internet Outrage, Pile-On Culture: 08:14–10:07
• Offline vs. Online Nuance: 10:34
• Impact on Campaigns and Democratic Talent: 14:07–16:51
• Democratic Party Problems & Rural States: 17:01–20:02
• Media Double Standards & "What if Obama": 21:26–23:31
• Decentralized News & Messaging: 24:30–26:55
• White House Symbolism & Trump's Aggressiveness: 27:09–30:07
• Dems’ Brand and Messaging Limits: 33:10–34:34
• Pro-Democracy Coalition Building: 34:34–39:02
• Chuck Schumer & Congressional Leadership: 39:02–41:20
• Marjorie Taylor Greene's Sincerity: 41:45
• Lovett's Political Beginnings & FactTrack Experience: 44:37–49:19
• White House Speechwriting, Impact Reflections: 49:41–54:55
• Current Political Voices Lovett Respects: 55:13
• Misunderstandings About Politics & Motivation: 57:23–60:02
• Lovett on Personal Political Challenges: 60:15–62:49

Tone and Style

• Open, reflective, and self-aware with Lovett's signature blend of earnestness, humor, and sharp political observationalism.
• Willingness to question party orthodoxy while keeping the focus on productive, coalition-minded resistance to authoritarianism.
• Frequent moments of humility—Lovett readily admits what he doesn't know and the difficulty of the moment.

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary covers both the breaking scandal at the heart of the discussion and the rich, wide-ranging analysis Jon Lovett brings to contemporary political dilemmas. The episode is as much a meditation on the pitfalls and hopes of American politics as it is about any one controversy.