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- [00:00]
Host 1
Hey everyone, welcome back to the In Good Faith podcast where every week I.
- [00:04]
Host 2
Talk to people I think are the.
- [00:05]
Host 1
Most important and influential people in the world. And this week my guest is mkbhd, otherwise known as Marques Brownlee. And Marques, he's been doing tech reviews.
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Host 2
Since he was just 15 years old. Now in his early 30s, I think he's the biggest name out there.
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Host 1
All while also being a professional ultimate.
- [00:19]
Host 2
Frisbee player on the side.
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Host 1
And so today we talked about the future of tech, the AI bubble, if Apple has lost its way, how he views politics and his life as a creator. And so hey, buckle up and if you enjoyed this episode, give it five.
- [00:29]
Host 2
Stars on Spotify and Apple and give.
- [00:31]
Host 1
It a like on YouTube.
- [00:32]
Host 2
So Marques, I feel like in the kind of the tech space and industry, your words have a lot of weight. And so I immediately just want to jump into the question, as someone that's been kind of an Apple fanboy, do you feel like Apple has lost its way since Steve Jobs died? Do you think it's true? Is it the same company? Is it a different company? If so, does that mean it is lesser, same or greater than?
- [00:58]
Marques Brownlee
Oh, wow, okay. Well I do know that in the tech world and any public facing figure always, without any doubt, always has people who miss the old version of them. Right? And this applies to companies too. I miss the old Apple. We will always hear that forever, no matter what Apple does. But you can also point to a point in time where Steve Jobs was leading Apple and then Tim Cook was leading Apple. There's like Steve's Apple and Tim's Apple and Steve was obviously really good at what he did. He was also a product guy and I like product guys, people who really get into the nitty gritty of the actual thing that you're buying and that is the core of what drives the business. Tim, nothing against Tim, not a product guy. He's just not like I've talked to him, I've interviewed him on camera. It's very clear. I asked him about products. That was my mistake. He's not a product guy. He was the supply chain guy, the business guy. He, he is the guy that all the shareholders love that has brought that company to historic new heights as far as value of a company. But I think it would be fair to say that they've lost a little bit of the inspiring new product innovation now. There's still new stuff. Plenty of talented people work for Apple. Vision Pro is new and at least interesting. And these new MacBook Pros are incredible. So they're not, they haven't lost their way. They're just different.
- [02:19]
Host 2
Well, okay, on the note of different, I feel bad because this is a question I'm interested in, but I also don't want it to seem like I'm throwing you into something with those two being different. Do you think. Okay, I'll put it this way. Do you think Steve Jobs would have made a 24k golden glass statue for the president?
- [02:42]
Marques Brownlee
Well, there's the other part of being a CEO of all of these tech companies that kind of turns you into a politician. You have to be friendly with the current administration to continue to rise shareholder value. And what does Tim Cook do? He continues to rise shareholder value. So if that's a gold statue, if that's a nice meeting, if that's rubbing shoulders, that's what he's doing, would Steve have done that? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. But that's. Yeah, Tim. If that rises the shareholder value, you better believe Tim Cook's in there.
- [03:12]
Host 2
There's so many times where I look at things and then I criticize them and then my portfolio is like, but you liked it a little bit. And I'm like, no, I was like, I, as a person, I was like, I'm diversified enough to be able to have my own opinion. But no. Okay, so as far as though more on the actual tech side, what are your thoughts as far as what's happening with the Apple Vision Pro? I think what they saw that they changed the chip recently, but I don't know if that's kind of a dead end and we're going more towards the glasses. In your opinion, what do you think?
- [03:42]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, so they refreshed it recently so it went from the M2 chip to the M5 chip and they added a new band and that's basically all they did. And it's been like almost two years since it came out. When I saw that, to me it was like, okay, anytime I talk about second generation products, that is the most interesting version of a new product category because the first gen is crazy and it's interesting and it's a new idea. The second gen shows you what they learned and the direction that it is going to start going. And even though this is kind of not really a gen 2, it's supposed to show us something. And it felt like Apple went, okay, this isn't really doing what we thought it would. And it does feel like along with all the other rumors about Apple, that they are internally starting to work on some other things. Like smart glasses, for example, that may be headed in a different direction. So Vision Pro is a really impressive piece of technology. I don't want to, like, understate that, like, the displays are incredible, the tracking is incredible. Samsung just came out with their competitor, which is cheaper and lighter and more comfortable and is an Android version. But it's like, it's missing a little bit of the precision of what Apple's able to do with Vision Pro and the sensors and the processor. So Vision Pro is, like, really good at what it does. But, yeah, I think Apple's realized that a $3,500 headset isn't going to change mankind. You know, is that.
- [05:00]
Host 2
Is it? Yeah, I mean, is that. Is that they've. They've kind of. Do you feel like they ended up aiming at a consumer that does exist, but it's too small or just will not? Like, can you even get that product down to, like, what Meta is doing as far as, like, what they've done with their. Whether it be their new display glasses with Ray Ban or, you know, even their. Oh, my God, Oculus.
- [05:22]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, yeah. So I did a video on, like, on specifically this question, which is like, I see what Met is doing, which is the glasses, and they keep adding more and more to the glasses. Now there's a display in them and the speakers and AI and everything. That's one approach. The other side of that spectrum is the VR headset, which is the massive piece of tech which is giving you everything, but you don't wear it outside, you don't wear it in public. It's too heavy and it's too much. Both of them are working towards each other. You're working to make the VR headset lighter and lighter and lighter and smaller and smaller and transparent. And eventually it will be like this Dream Imaginary device. You're working to make the glasses better and better and shove more and more tech in them until they're able to be this Dream Imaginary XR device. Which is the better approach? Well, Apple's doing one version, Meta's doing the other version. We don't know who's going to win or which one's better. And I think what you're observing is, like, we are realizing that the Vision Pro coming down from the VR headset approach isn't as popular to try. It isn't getting as much traction as they thought. And so we do think the Meta version of just glasses, especially because the price point is going to be lower. It's more socially acceptable in public. Like, this is the version that people are willing to give a shot more than the other one.
- [06:34]
Host 2
Yeah. I mean, when it came to the Apple headset, I think it was very anecdotal. And, you know, I can't keep using myself as the baseline because, you know, I'm slowly aging up and out of certain markets. But I was like, the fact that I didn't feel like I needed to jump in and get. Get it when I would have traditionally in my head, I was like, okay, I think that is going to make this potentially a loser once again. You can't make yourself the test case all the time. But the thing is, like, I'm rooting for Apple to do something that's more minimal, like what Meta is doing with Ray Ban and Oakley, because I hate that I recently got their glasses. Liked most of it. I don't like the Meta AI specifically. I'd rather that be, well, not Siri, because Siri's, in my opinion, a bit of a dumpster fire. Something that could be between. Between Siri and a ChatGPT experience. If I could get that from Apple. Give me that every day. Because I'm not going to throw myself into a Meta ecosystem outside of how clean it integrates with like Instagram stories.
- [07:39]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah. Can I ask you a question? Are you. Are you more in. Are you like in the Apple ecosystem? And like, when Apple comes out with new products, it feels like you have to at least like, check it out, give it a shot just in case it's something you want to add to your life.
- [07:51]
Host 2
I'll look at it. But I've gotten. Years and years ago, I got out of the cycle of I need to update my phone. So I think. Right. I updated to the new 17 Pro.
- [08:02]
Host 1
From maybe the 15.
- [08:03]
Host 2
So I skip a lot. A number of generations. Now it's getting longer and longer because I feel like a number of the things don't. It's not enough of a jump for me anymore.
- [08:14]
Marques Brownlee
Totally. Yeah.
- [08:15]
Host 2
But. But no, I mean, for the most part, I'm all in on Apple, except certain things that make it a little hard. I mean, as we were setting up, I don't know what you're on, but I know that I. For the most part, if I go live stream, I'll do that on a PC because of even just little things like trying to navigate which audio feed is going to go through. It's so much harder on Mac for some reason. And so there are little things like that, but for the most part, it's 90% of my. My ecosystem.
- [08:41]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah. I feel like The Vision Pro was kind of like a litmus test for how, how deep in the Apple ecosystem are you? Because you don't. 99.9% of people do not need a VR headset. But okay, if this new VR headset war starts happening and there's a couple options out there and you're the guy with the iPhone and the Mac and the Apple Watch and the AirPods and everything, then the Vision Pro was the obvious choice because of how well it worked with those things and for no other reason, like there would be, you would get much more out of your money for like I said, the half price Samsung Galaxy XR for example. But you know, the little bit of extra precision and the high fidelity connection to the AirPods and iMessage being right there and connecting to your Mac and all these things. It's like, oh, okay, this, if you have a Vision Pro, you're really in, you're really in that ecosystem.
- [09:31]
Host 2
What let me know if someone had drank the Kool Aid or not was not if they bought the Vision Pro, but if they liked the first version of Apple. Remaking your face while you took a FaceTime call. I was like, don't act like this is great. That's the weirdest, creepiest thing in the world. Unless, wait, what was your take? Because I don't remember this.
- [09:53]
Marques Brownlee
Well, it was right in Uncanny Valley. It was like looking at a ghost of someone. It wasn't good, but it was better than anything we'd ever seen before. It was like kind of realistic but not good. To their credit, it's gotten better. And if you've seen the newest versions, they're actually pretty good now. But the first one's bad.
- [10:14]
Host 2
It rubs me wrong once again. It could just be. I have a bias there and I'm leaning into it, but I don't know. For Apple though, is there something on the horizon or a wish list item that you think could kind of kick them back up into like where they used to be? For a lot of people, that's a good question.
- [10:33]
Marques Brownlee
Maybe it's the million dollar question. Cause I mean, Apple would love to know like what the thing is that they could do to jump back in front of, you know, the companies competing, you know, the new laptops are actually really, really good. Like if you've been watching the world of laptops like Apple silicon, the MacBook Pros have been kind of untouchable for a couple of years, which is crazy. And that was very much because of what they did with Apple Silicon. So that's, that's nice. I would like to see them just do more stuff in general. Like when I think about Apple's ecosystem of products, they make AirPods Max, which is $550 metal over ear ANC headphones and they refreshed it recently and literally just added USB type C port and new colors. I was like, why don't you make a $250 pair of headphones? Why don't you make a 700? I want the audiophile grade pair of headphones that I just sit in a room and listen to them and they're amazing. Like I don't. I want them to try other stuff. A printer. They're not going to make a printer. A camera. I want Apple to. The iPhone. Cameras are so good. They'd probably be amazing at making a standalone mirrorless camera, but they're not going to do that either. So I just wish they would do more stuff.
- [11:40]
Host 2
It boggles my mind that they are that company and Siri is at the level that it is and where it's been like the fact they're getting lapped in that place and that, you know, I'm like, oh, I'm so glad that there is a quick action button on the phone so I can bypass Siri and go straight to a ChatGPT audio interaction. But I will say to your point, they are killing on a number of things. I mean I'm using their headphones literally right now. My secondary, and it's what I use to export things to your point, is an Apple M4 Max MacBook Pro destroys everything else that I had in my office as far as like quick turnaround. Yeah. And so it's, I don't know, I just can't kind of wonder what's going to happen there. But I guess connected to Siri and then ChatGpt and moving forward in that space. What are your thoughts on where we are with AI right now as far as, let's say day to day interactions for everyday people and you as kind of someone that's in the space and putting out a lot of content and maybe from more of a business perspective.
- [12:51]
Marques Brownlee
So I, I've personally been like dipping my toe in the pool and using these tools a little bit here and there, a little bit more now than like maybe last year. I think the average person is just getting like exposed to it. Wait, like waterboarded with AI content basically, like it's everywhere now. It's on your Instagram feeds, there's the Sora app. Like you can't really avoid it now, but as far as tools like that, I use specifically, like I use some of the chat bots I actually use. I'm on this browser. Well, I couldn't use it for Riverside, but I use the ChatGPT Atlas browser and DIA.
- [13:27]
Host 2
Yeah.
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Marques Brownlee
Because they're, they're interesting. They let me like converse with the Internet and there's this new skill of like knowing how to prompt them well, kind of like you used to have to know how to Google things. You kind of have to know how to prompt these things well. So I'm using that a little bit more. And it's interesting, like seeing people grow up who are a little younger than us that will not know a world without these AI tools. And it's just kind of have. You have to know how to use them well. And it's just a part of your daily now. So I think it's fascinating.
- [13:56]
Host 2
Yeah, I mean, from the creator's perspective, it feels like there's been like this massive divide. You know, I've seen a number of tech forward creators, they kind of jumped into Sora, the Sora app. And I was like, I don't like this at all. And it felt, I don't, it felt. I know, I know a number of them. So I'm not trying to burn anybody, but it really rubbed me the wrong way. And I don't know, I don't know if it's just because I'm more worried about it from a jobs or creator perspective, like the market's gonna have to figure itself out or if it's more from. I'm just. Because I'm doing news, covering news, I'm just, I think that the misinformation problem is going to get way out of hand. And it's so easy to remove the Sora watermark and stuff like that. But I don't know.
- [14:42]
Marques Brownlee
On top of that, there's also the likeness problem. Like there's so many unprecedented things happening because of these advancements where like if you, there's the moment where you open the app for the first time, it's like, do you want to scan your face and like let people use it? And I'm like, this is a major decision that I'm making right now. If I just give them unlimited free use of my likeness forever. No, actually, no, that's a terrible idea. I'm gonn to hit. No, I think that's a terrible. And some people lean in and they're like, yeah, use my face. This is better for my exposure as a human. And my, you know, I'M a, I'm a creator. I want my face to be out there more. I'm going to, I'm going to give people the ability to use my face. And that's a decision you can make too. But they're kind of unprecedented in like how far this stuff goes so quickly. So if I, I chose. No, I don't know if you got to that point and had to like scan your face.
- [15:35]
Host 2
I didn't even, I didn't even download it. But I was going to ask you. I mean, so.
- [15:38]
Host 1
Right.
- [15:38]
Host 2
There's a big conversation around the eth. Ethics of it. And so in the past year there have been two companies that came around and they offered me a fee to go through my archive and use it to train their AI. I said no, even though it was a sizable amount of money, which maybe in the long term I'll look back and be like, well, everyone was just stealing shit anyways. And I know that you've popped up in the news of people just using your content to train AI. Have you also had any companies come up and offer to pay or is everyone just ripping mkbhd?
- [16:11]
Marques Brownlee
That's a great point. No one's offered to pay. And I. Maybe that's respectable that they did because yeah, they. A lot of, A lot of them just kind of rip and I upload to YouTube. Like there's thousands of hours of my face in high definition on the Internet already and nothing really stopping them. YouTube's terms of service is kind of like a slap on the wrist. So. Yeah, they kind of just steal it.
- [16:31]
Host 2
Well, yeah, actually. So on the note of YouTube, I mean, I think we're going to do a same day turnaround on this. Yesterday they publicly announced that they're using their AI to HD our old content and they're giving creators an opt out. I haven't, I mean, I haven't even talked to my team about it or anything. I mean, do you think that's kind of minimal, doesn't matter. Or are you going to, are you going to opt out?
- [16:54]
Marques Brownlee
So it's. I found that really interesting and I think it depends on what your old videos are because I think the limit, the barrier is like 480p, right. Or something like that. So anything or anything under 720p is a candidate to get upscaled. For me personally, almost none of my videos are under 720p. So it's okay, it's okay for me. But let's say you're a creator with lots of older vlogs and it's your face and it's a younger version of you and it's a little bit different when you're asking AI to touch that and potentially upscale it really well or really poorly. You don't know yet, but maybe some of those are precious videos that you want them to stay the way they are, the way you remember them, instead of suddenly being like creepily high definition. So I think we'll just see again, unprecedented. We will see what YouTube starts doing to those videos and then form our opinions. But as of right now, I'm not too worried about my old catalog. This is where my username came from. Yeah, it's hd.
- [17:51]
Host 2
Yeah.
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Marques Brownlee
Yeah.
- [17:52]
Host 2
I, that's so funny. I know. I saw some screenshots this morning of SNES gameplay getting the HD treatment. I was like, oh, that looks, that looks a little weird. But kind of one of the last questions I'll ask with AI outside of maybe someone is invested in Nvidia, which I think just became a $5 trillion company, and that making an impact on someone's life. Do you. Where do you, do you think that AI is going to be an eventual improvement for most people? Or are you more scared about the kind of the worst case scenarios with job loss and all that?
- [18:29]
Marques Brownlee
I, I think you kind of have to see both sides of it. I, I do think it's a new frontier. And in the same way that, you know, us and our parents and everyone, you know, who didn't have the Internet grew up and the Internet happened and we all had to learn to live with all the upsides and downsides of the Internet. I think AI is kind of doing the same thing. The Internet comes around. There were a lot of jobs lost, but also a lot gained. And that's always a concern. And I think with AI, like, okay, figuring out how to use these tools well, like for me as a creator, I'm not firing anybody, but I am gaining productivity. So that's nice. I think. Yeah, you kind of have to just take a few steps back, understand that there's no stop. You can't really put the toothpaste back in the tube. Like this AI thing is happening. So we kind of have to try to use it as best we can and mitigate its downsides as best we can in the process. It's kind of a no, it's kind of a non answer, but it's, it's just happening to us, you know.
- [19:23]
Host 2
No, no. Okay. So like. But connected to that, I mean, and we have to look at it in different avenues. Do you Think that innovation is slowing down in certain places. Maybe it's more because, like, it feels like with AI there's a new big thing every day. But maybe on hardware there has been a massive slowdown. I don't know. What are you. What are your thoughts there?
- [19:45]
Marques Brownlee
Certain. Yeah, certain hardware, the way I see it is like every category. I don't know if this is mirrored for you, but has like the same curve where it's really, really steep at the beginning and then flattens out and hits an asymptote at some point and does, like, minor improvements every year. And it's really exciting when new technologies are on that sharp increase for the first few years. You remember when the iPhone came out in 2007, and then the next iPhone and then the next iPhone and the iPhone 4 and the 4s, and we were getting these crazy big improvements and they added cameras and they doubled in processing power and Siri became a thing for the first time. Like, huge improvements. Now what's the difference between the 16 and the 17? Like, right, okay. A little bump up, a little more storage. Right. So we did that curve with the. With the iPhone and with smartphones, and now we get to see this curve again with VR and AR and with AI and with electric cars like that. It keeps happening with all these new technologies. So in hardware, it kind of feels boring because we mostly look at smartphones and they kind of have flatlined and they do everything, and that's okay. But I think when we look around at all the other exciting curves that we're at the beginning of, it's still a pretty exciting time to be in tech.
- [20:53]
Host 2
When you're talking about VR, is the idea in your head of, like, what was kind of pushed as what the. The metaverse would be, is that done and dead? And it's kind of just. It's going to be like a under $500 video game thing is, is that.
- [21:07]
Marques Brownlee
Where you think it's at, the Metaverse? Yeah, it's. Well, it's so hard to define the Metaverse. Like, I guess if you asked, you know, when Meta was renaming their company a few years ago, what is the Metaverse? They would have probably given sort of a weird virtual space type of answer. And now I think if you ask Meta or Zuck about the Metaverse, it's more just like xr, like, put these glasses on, it's going to augment your reality. That's the Metaverse. Now, I don't know if there's a definition of the metaverse, but.
- [21:34]
Host 2
Well, that sounds like they just changed the definition. Because my understanding was that it was like, imagine like everything that's crossed each other in Fortnite, but it was a lived experience and everything interacted with everything. That was my understanding of what they said it was gonna be. Or like, yeah, like a super expanded VR version of like what Roblox does. And that's, that's a kind of a dumbed down version of just everyone create. Can create every single thing.
- [22:01]
Host 1
Or like.
- [22:02]
Marques Brownlee
Ready player one?
- [22:03]
Host 2
Yeah, exactly. And now it's like you're gonna say metaverse is. I can see the music in the bottom right hand of my fucking glasses. That's the Metaverse now.
- [22:13]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, yeah, it's definitely changed. And maybe this vision of the future is like you've got these glasses on that are super, super impressive. They have sensors everywhere and they can overlay things over your real world. So it's not just in the corner, but it's like I look up at a billboard and that billboard is giving me an ad that's tailored to just me that only I can see. If I take the glasses off, it's just a blank screen. Like it's, it's that type of future vision of a metaverse, maybe. But yeah, I still think it's impossible to define. Probably on purpose. Probably on purpose.
- [22:48]
Host 2
That's right. Probably on purpose. No. What's. Okay, so separate from the Internet, from the metaverse, but more the Internet. What is, what is your relationship with social media at this point? You know, you've been creating content for so, so, so long. Do you just kind of see it as an output device or, you know, are you on there consuming, you think like everyone else, or do you have, like, you have to keep it separate?
- [23:15]
Marques Brownlee
That's a good question. I mostly use it the way I always have. I'm not as super on all the time like I once was. Like, I used to read every single tweet and every reply and now I can't possibly do that. But yeah, there is an element to me of like being able to keep a finger on the pulse and stay plugged in and understand what audiences are talking about, what they like and what they don't like. And also now, because of how politicized and how different each one of them is trying to understand the context of like how different pieces hit different, different ways. Like, I just did a video yesterday which was about something that was really hot on Twitter. It was this Neo humanoid robot. And if you, if you just live on Twitter, this was like the biggest deal it has like 50 million views on Twitter. Everyone's memeing about it, everyone's talking about it, everyone's given their takes about it. I'm reading these, I'm like, oh my God, I have such a. I have a take. I need to talk about this. I made this video and then this video hits YouTube totally different than it hits Twitter. This video hits threads and blue sky and Instagram in totally different ways. Instagram is almost like the more innocent, mainstream group of your friends version of how it hits, where people are like, wait, what? This is. This is real. This is a robot that you can buy. Meanwhile, Twitter's like, yeah, I invested. I bought six of them. Like, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. So you kind of have to speak the language and understand, you know, how social media hits in different places. But I feel like that's what I do. And I keep a finger on the pulse there.
- [24:50]
Host 1
And then. I'll get you back to the podcast.
- [24:52]
Host 2
In just a minute. But let me take a minute to.
- [24:54]
Host 1
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- [25:53]
Host 2
Today I'm gonna go back to that, but Specifically with neo. What was your take? Because my. I had only seen. I think we might be talking about it today. I'd only seen surface level, where it was like a $20,000 or a $500 a month robot. But it might not actually be autonomous. It might be. Is it operated by someone else?
- [26:14]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, walk me through this, because there's two sides of this. I'll give you. This is how it hit me. This is the pitch versus the reality. So the pitch is there's a five foot six humanoid robot that lives in your house, and when you leave in the morning, it unplugs itself and gets off the dock and walks around and does your chores. It does the laundry, it does the dishes, it vacuums, it puts stuff away, it finds a remote between the cushions, it puts your keys back where they belong. Like, it. It. It does everything. It's a nice little helper. And no matter how slow it does it, it's in the background, you're at work, it's doing all of this for you. Immense value, right? The reality is that requires an incredibly complex neural net and a model of your house and knowing all these household objects, and that doesn't exist yet. So there is also the ability for a tele operator to come in and work through the robot to do these tasks for you, which represents, obviously, a totally different privacy situation, a totally different comfort level for a lot of people. And, oh, by the way, you can give us your money today, pre order it, and we'll ship the version with the tele operator now in hopes that maybe someday we'll get to the version that's super advanced, that can do it all on its own. So if you're a tech bro, if you're really in the thick of this, if you're on Twitter thinking, this is amazing, then you are, Will, you're actually willing to let that tele operator do the task and hopefully contribute kind of as a beta tester. But if you're a little bit more unplugged, a little bit more of a normal person, you might say this is an almost unfathomable product that should never be in your house. And what if it falls? And what if it lands on my dog? And what if it creeps out? What if it strangles me? Like, what if. There's all kinds of questions people have that you just immediately think like a normal person. You're like, this sounds insane. So, you know, you'll probably land somewhere on the spectrum between, yes, I'll have six, and I will never buy One, but those are the two sides.
- [28:12]
Host 2
What was the. Okay, so then what was, was the reaction on Twitter? X I disagree. Or was it aggressive and like saying that you were going at like what, what was the take?
- [28:23]
Marques Brownlee
Well, I have a bit of a reputation for being standing up for the consumer when products are not very good.
- [28:30]
Host 2
No, you have a. No, you have a. People know you as the man who tried to kill Rabbit. Cause you're an evil, evil monster man. Right, that's what it was.
- [28:38]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think I tried to be as fair as possible and really highlight that it's not just this product that has a problem, but it's all of these AI products that are shipping and selling two different things. They're selling the dream, but they're shipping a not finished product, hoping to someday get to the dream. That's the real thesis that I put in my video. I think this hit Twitter as a very negative video because I am not a believer or something like that. But I think there are a lot of other people who see that they're selling a dream. You're not buying a product that's good. And I think that's usually where my mind goes when I'm reviewing products. Is, is it good now or is it going to hopefully maybe someday be good? And if my golden rule is that you don't buy a product based on what it is someday, you buy it based on what it is today, then I'm going to be pretty consistently feeling negative about these AI based products. And as robots, no exception, but maybe I'll be proved wrong someday.
- [29:40]
Host 2
Well, I was going to ask. It sounds like the answer is going to be no, but given kind of the state of things, of how people can be so reactive, has there ever been a product that you were like, you know what, I'm not even going to talk about that right now because it's just going to be a mess.
- [29:58]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, that happens all the time. And I think this robot, I think this robot was kind of on the edge of that. The humane pin was also kind of on the edge of that. I was not the first to cover it. It was kind of on my radar. It sat on my desk for a week and I finally took it out the box and started using it. When I was on this trip just because I was like, oh, maybe this will be worth a video, maybe not. Who knows? Most products are not that interesting. It's only the ones that are really, really good or really, really bad that are interesting, if that makes sense.
- [30:32]
Host 2
No, it does.
- [30:33]
Marques Brownlee
So A lot of things are just kind of mid and they're like a 7 out of 10 and they're fine and you buy them and they work and great, you know, whoop dee doo. But as someone who is interested in fascinating products and finds tens out of tens and finds two out of tens that some people think are tens out of tens, like that's where the interesting stuff is and that's where the stories are. So. So that is why it became a video.
- [30:55]
Host 2
Okay, so actually no with that. Has. Has politics ever impacted your work? And this I'll go kind of a range here. It can go from the range of like super political China rare earth metals. There's like our company is going to be able to, to build the products and somehow that impacts your work. 2. I mean, we, I have a bad sense of time. I think it was one or two years ago we had, we had to have Mark Roberon to give a response because he like became embroiled in a Tesla lidar situation where people were like accusing him of being a bad actor and he was like, I love Tesla. This is just what happened. Has anything like that ever happened outside of the humane pen? And I guess now maybe Neo.
- [31:38]
Marques Brownlee
Not. Not really. I think there's a couple things. Well, I guess it has happened, but my coverage never focuses on a couple of things. One is I don't own any stock in any company that I cover, never have. And I therefore do not care about the stock price of the companies I cover. A lot of people do care about the stock price, so sometimes that feels weird to people. And then two is, yeah, the, the politics of like sustainability or how the product gets made. Sometimes that is like, it's usually not very interesting, but sometimes it's such a glaring thing that you, you kind of have to loop it in. And sometimes that's positive and negative too. So I'm kind of rambling. But like sometimes there's a product that's like made so well and has such great recyclable materials and everything. And it's like, damn. I have to. I gotta mention this. This is actually a really highlight of this product. And sometimes it's like, yeah, this, this chatgpt prompt is just not energy efficient at all. And like, if I'm generating tons of these videos with Sora, I am just contributing to a really unhealthy behavior that humanity has started to spin up here. And you kind of have to loop that in too. Typically it doesn't make it into my coverage unless it's a highlight or Lowlight of the product.
- [32:53]
Host 2
Has there been a product that has kind of like surprised you and it has become a big part of your life? These things that you're like, it wasn't on people's radar, but it's actually a 10 out of 10.
- [33:03]
Marques Brownlee
It's been a while since a product really surprised me like that. Like I think a lot of these sort of actually these AI browsers I think is the latest thing that I didn't think I would be that interested in. And now I'm the guy that switches browsers every two days, which is like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? But I do find that they're really interesting and useful to me. So that, that might have been the last thing that surprised me. But yeah, I feel like I get a pretty good pulse on most products pretty quickly.
- [33:30]
Host 2
Yeah, I'm interested in your thoughts. I have like this love hate relationship with how helpful. I mean I haven't switched to Atlas, but I will use ChatGPT a lot almost to the degree that it is a search engine where you know, you said, and I agree, like there used to be a time where you really needed to know how to Google something to get the right thing. And I almost wonder if by it being so convenient of me when I talk and I'm thinking, I'm very rambly right. It's just like I almost want to just like blurt it out. I don't know if it's making me then dumber because I'm not having to organize my thoughts and I'm offloading the organization to this thing that is designed to do that to a certain degree. And do you have any concerns there or this is just, this is, this is where we are now and what it's going to be?
- [34:18]
Marques Brownlee
No, I think I've thought about that. I think it feels like we're just kind of setting a new baseline for like how good you can be at organizing information. Like when I was a kid, I guess I've lived through the three eras of this. Like when I was a kid going to the library and the, the atlas and the, all the almanacs are sitting there and I had to organize some information. That was one version of like a skill to do that. Then there's the Internet era where it's like, okay, I, I'm going to make a purchase decision. I'm, I'm really interested in these two cars and I want to compare them to each other. I do a lot of googling and a lot of like pulling up different tabs and switching back and forth and reading the specs of each and like comparing them myself. And now this new era is like, I think people are underestimating how complex they can make their prompts and actually get a successful response. Like, I'm just asking it to make charts for me of all the things that I'm considering and oh, you know what, give me an extra focus on this and it redoes the chart and I'm looking at the sources and I'm, I. There's another new skill there of like having it organize things for you, fact checking it yourself because you still need that, you still need the fact checking yourself. But yeah, I think people might be surprised at just how complex you can make your prompts and it actually helps you.
- [35:33]
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- [36:01]
Marques Brownlee
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- [36:32]
Host 2
Yeah, on the, on the note of different eras where I want to start and we'll get to right now, when you were, I think you were what, 15 when you started, right? Is that, is that accurate?
- [36:42]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, that's right.
- [36:43]
Host 2
Yeah. When, when you were making it then, was it, was it because you just wanted to, to get out there to connect to that community or was there anything maybe more forward thinking than that?
- [36:56]
Marques Brownlee
No, that was it. There was a little community at the time and I just was like, I got this laptop and I was watching all these other videos of kids, honestly too, who had also gotten laptops and started making these videos about them. And so it felt totally natural for me to like turn on the webcam and make a video and upload it to YouTube. And I'd already been commenting on other videos. And like, so they would jump in and see my video and comment. And it was like this nice little, you know, five or six creator community that it was born out of. So that's kind of all it was.
- [37:29]
Host 2
Yeah. And so. Okay, so then it's. It's growing. It's growing. At what point do you realize, okay, I need to. To bring people on? What's. What's the number of years there?
- [37:39]
Marques Brownlee
Oh, it's way later. The first person that I added to the team was after I graduated from college. So this would be like 2009. So this is like year seven, I think.
- [37:50]
Host 2
Okay, so seven years in. So you're around 22 then. Right. Okay. And what is the thinking there? I want to make more. Life's too busy. Are you doing ultimate at this point?
- [38:04]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, I've been doing ultimate since the beginning, the first person. So really it was. I've been doing 100% of the stuff. And you kind of feel like an octopus. I don't know if you've heard my octopus analogy that I've told many times, but I needed someone to hold the camera to point it at me. That was like the main thing. Like, I can't do the selfie video thing. Like, I need someone to just have a tripod and just get the shots of me because those are useful for the videos. So that was number one. I was, I need help with that. And. And then it kind of. Yeah, every. Every person basically since has been added to do something that was previously either done by me or done by one of the small core. And it has taken a load off and made it sort of this evenly operating machine where everyone has a interlocking task with everyone else.
- [38:50]
Host 2
So, okay, so the team's getting built up at what point and what's the thinking behind? I'm going to all of a sudden make a channel that is around vehicles. Is it because there is like, you want to go back to something that was. It's just an interest and you want to do it. Is it part of the, you know, I have a company and now I'm thinking about strategy. What's. What's the thinking there?
- [39:13]
Marques Brownlee
So I've always been into interest in vehicles, but it was, it was actually a little bit of what you're saying, but also an audience expectation decision. I had started making an occasional car video on the main channel and I had the autofocus playlist and I have all these thoughts on cars and I'm like, there's no place to put these in the main channel videos. And I, I don't know, I, I kind of feel like I just want to keep talking about cars. So it felt like a natural second channel place where that audience expectation is just the car thoughts and that's what it was born out of. So we started doing the videos of the cars I had and then we started testing other cars and that's how it grows from there. But it was just kind of like, I like these, I've liked cars forever and I've liked making videos about cars. But this is not an audience that expects to watch videos about cars.
- [40:00]
Host 2
On the note of audiences that I'm interested because this is, I don't know, having done this for like two decades, I'm very interested in different niches. How does the tech and vehicle audiences, how do they compare?
- [40:14]
Marques Brownlee
Okay, well, because I watch a lot of YouTube so I, I can get in the rabbit hole of the like mini cinematic universe that is just tech YouTube and also the version that is just car YouTube. And they're very different. Now that you mentioned it. Yeah. There's, you know, there, there are different types of car videos. There are people who are reviewing the actual vehicle, like people who actually are lucky enough, like me, to get to test a car and give our thoughts on it. There are also commentary channels about said products that, that exists in tech too. There's the phone review and then there's the people who talk about the phone review. And then there are the like almost unreasonable fandoms of individual companies inside of these universes. I guess that they have a lot in common now that I'm thinking about it. There's the, you know, the BMW fan who can't see BMW ever doing anything wrong. And then there's the Apple fan who can't see Apple ever doing anything wrong. And then there are the people who defend that company or who are like adversarial against the other companies. This is, they have a lot of parallels now that you're here. Jogging this through my head.
- [41:24]
Host 2
Yeah. I mean, does any of it, I don't know, this is maybe a curveball because I'm not super involved in either space. Does any of it end up getting fueled because of like the rivalries you see in F1 or. No, that's just like a thing that's connected and I don't know how involved you are as a fan of F1 there too. So I don't know.
- [41:42]
Marques Brownlee
A little bit. Yeah, there. I think that's naturally like. And those are all like the super high end manufacturers. So there's like the McLaren fan versus the Ferrari fan or whatever. Like, that's a little bit of it. And when the team is successful, then you feel a little more proud or whatever. Yeah, I think that's. That's a little bit of a part of it, too. But there's like, these companies have so much history, too. The car company histories go way, way back. So there's, like, legacy things people bring up from, like, the 50s that are supposed to mean something today. Oh, this new Ferrari. Oh, that's harkening back to the 1958 GT. I'm like, oh, I know nothing about that, but cool. I'm more interested in what it does today. But that. That stuff exists too.
- [42:20]
Host 2
Yeah. I always just kind of wonder where certain things stem from because. Yeah, I don't know. My dad's a big car guy. I'm surrounded by car guys, and I've never gotten into it. And they can tell you everything about everything. And so I imagine there's that. But then also because we kind of just live in a gambling society, whether it be the stock market. And so all of a sudden you have, like, people that care about things even more and they kind of can take things as a more direct hit. It seems like everything's. I don't know. I love that you kind of seem to not care, but also are thoughtful of that. There is this world that is out there. I don't know. I don't know how you navigate it.
- [42:58]
Marques Brownlee
I think every company should be able to make a good product. I think that's maybe. I think that's maybe an unpopular opinion. I don't think people think about that a lot. I think people think that the good companies make the good products and the bad companies make the bad products. But I think that if you. If you kind of just take a product for what it is and you can strip the brand name off of it and objectively evaluate it, that's a. That's a skill like that. That's a thing that people usually aren't doing in their head. So if you are a fan of BMW and BMW puts out a bad car, you might kind of do some mental gymnastics to justify why it's good while there are other better cars out there. That happens in tech all the time. That happens in products. People make these very personal buying decisions, and then they feel the need to defend them, even if it's not technically the best thing. So I just find that interesting. Yeah, there's a lot of good products out there that people don't realize are as good as they are.
- [43:53]
Host 2
No, I mean, I don't know. I was like, the. The closest I could get to that space is I was very hyped up for the vw. Oh, my God. They call it the buzz now. I think I saw, and I'm thankful that the. The review community, it was out there. And they were like, here's the thing. I want to love it, but.
- [44:11]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah.
- [44:11]
Host 2
And I was like, thank you. Thank you. YouTube and nostalgia.
- [44:14]
Marques Brownlee
That's a. That's another good one. Because nostalgia is such a powerful force. And I think a lot of companies try as hard as they can to plug into nostalgia because that makes people look more fondly upon things when they like the old version. And that can be tough.
- [44:29]
Host 2
Sometimes I wonder. Yeah. Then I wonder how much that plays into when there was that whole Jaguar scandal around those, like, the new bodies once again. This is like an area that I'm not super well versed in. It's just like, I like, I'm like, oh, that's happening over there. Why is everyone freaking out? Whose comment? The press.
- [44:46]
Host 1
Okay.
- [44:47]
Host 2
No. Okay, so you launched this channel, but then where you are right now, I've really enjoyed going through and I don't know if. Well, I'm not alone in it as far as the views, but I've really enjoyed content from the studio. I really loved hearing from your team and the editors. What's the thought process in creating that channel?
- [45:05]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, so the main channel is the tech videos. It's my thoughts and my opinions. And I've seen so many other channels try to add multiple heads or multiple hosts or whatever. And I've. I've literally never once in my life seen that go as well as I was hoping it would. But I also kind of want to shed the curtain or shed light on or pull back the curtain to show the behind the scenes process of some of this stuff. Because people might not understand what's going on or appreciate what's going on. And we're really proud of the stuff we're making. So I felt like this was a good opportunity to just have a place to put all of that. And so it started just basically as, like, this is behind the scenes and it's obviously developed its own voice and become its own thing. But if. If the MKBHD channel is what you come to expect there, then the studio channel is a different expectation. It is what we are. It's the process, it's the place, it's the people. It's. It's way more diverse opinions and thoughts. And, and content just in that different way.
- [46:05]
Host 2
And for you, is it kind of this where you are making that content? Or is it. And like it's there for the community and the creators? Or like, is it. Is it self sufficient? Is it something that. It's. Because I know that I've launched certain things and then I'm like, okay, that accomplishes a thing, but it does not maybe make monetary sense. Or is it.
- [46:28]
Marques Brownlee
I honestly have a hard time thinking of things that way. I couldn't tell you. I don't know if it's. If I. If I asked my mom who runs the finances, if. If the studio is self sufficient, she could give me an answer. I don't think it's. If it's negative, it's not super negative. If it's positive, it's not super positive, but it is something that I want to exist, so I will keep making it exist.
- [46:50]
Host 2
Okay, wait, so how many. Yeah, okay, then the structure. How many people do you have? And so your mom runs the finance. So is she like a C level at the company or how does that work?
- [47:00]
Marques Brownlee
I guess technically, yeah. So the whole company, I believe, is 17, I think, people. My mom was always in finance and so she naturally became the one to run. And I'm so lucky for this. But she runs all of the finance and the accounting and all of the taxes and everything that goes with that. The bookkeeping. Shout out to Momager. And then, yeah, basically, I don't know if there's levels to this, but it's kind of like a wheel of a bunch of spokes. Like, there's the MKBHD channel and everyone who helps produce videos there. There's the podcast and everyone who helps produce the podcast, the studio channel, and everyone who helps produce that and the autofocus channel. But there's also a ton of interweaving of different people who are good at different parts and will actually work on different channels just based on that. So most people aren't very siloed. It's just kind of a group of people in a studio making stuff.
- [47:57]
Host 2
So, okay, so you have Momager on finances. Is there someone that's thinking of the flywheel between all these channels? Like, is there or is that you?
- [48:07]
Marques Brownlee
That is me and one producer. So most recent person added is producer who. And I think that's like a. It's like a really good skill. And that was a part of my brain that I was, you know, I kind of had to reduce myself to like a couple core roles if this octopus cut all of Its arms off or whatever. And it just has a couple core things left for me. That is, I am the voice of the. Of the reviews, and it's my thoughts and my. My reviews and the content strategy across, like, what we decide to make, basically. And so because we have a network of channels and a bunch of overlapping, like, time boxes, and if you could see our calendars, you'd be like, oh, yeah, you need a producer to, like, organize this and book, you know, the flights and hotels, make sure everything works. That is her job.
- [48:52]
Host 2
And I mean, where. I mean, I hate this question as someone that sometimes receives it, but I also have to ask it, where does. Where do you want this to go from here? Like, because obviously you're in this great spot and I don't want to discount that. But it's always like, kind of like, is there. Is there a vision of, like, slow expansion? Are you of the mindset? Like, kind of. A lot of people I've seen in different spaces where it's like, you have this, and then it's a vehicle to push to some sort of service or bigger product or thing. What is. Or, you know, is it kind of more the classic. We are. We're here for the reviews and the commentary, and we want to be a staple there.
- [49:37]
Marques Brownlee
I feel like I kind of have a dream job right now. I get to just show up, play with cool tech, and make videos about what I think is worth sharing. And it's. I'm not very good at, like, looking really far forward, probably because I'm in tech and I realize I'm usually wrong about the future, but I think I'm just gonna keep doing this. And yes, there is some degree of evolving each of them. We wanna make better videos. I always wanna make more videos, but more and better. It's kind of hard to do both of them, so we're kind of playing with that a little bit. But I think one thing that is unique about this channel is that a lot of people who have big channels are specifically in this mode of, like, how do I leverage this to jump off and turn it into something else or. Or, you know, own the audience or, like, sell a product or whatever. And I really like that that's not what I'm doing. And I think audiences appreciate that that's not what we're doing. We're just making the videos that we want to make. So, yes, there are safety nets and yes, we do have collaborations and we get to make products, and those are really fun. But the main thing is, the main thing I love that.
- [50:47]
Host 2
No, I mean. So, okay. I mean, when you. When you have the dream job and you do what you do, when do you. Do you think that you have like a. If you put it into words, what do you have? A purpose. And if so, what is it?
- [51:00]
Marques Brownlee
I would say I'm lucky enough to be in this position where I get to open a lot of doors for other creators. So if you ask me, like, how I got here, like, I was early, that was great. I got to make a whole bunch of videos. I got really good at this one thing. And now a lot of people watch it and listen to it. Awesome. Now we get to try new things. We get to do brand collaborations in unique ways. We get to interview really interesting and inaccessible people, and maybe that goes really well and they go, oh, I should do more YouTube interviews. Like, we get to open doors, hopefully, for other creators that come after me, which I think feels like the closest thing to a purpose in this weird fantasy job that I have. So I'll stick with that.
- [51:44]
Host 2
Yeah, no, I mean, okay. On the note of other creators, I kind of try and do this, and unfortunately, well, it just happens to be the case. A lot of it's in my own space. But who are other creators in your space right now that you think are killing it or. And. Or on the rise?
- [52:01]
Marques Brownlee
There's so many interesting stories. I mean, like I said, I watch a lot of YouTube. I don't really watch TV or movies or anything like that. I'm just, like, in YouTube land. So there's. There's a ton. I mean, I. One that came to mind when you said that Becca Versace is a. Is a creator who was a part of a larger organization and, and sort of branched out and is now doing her own channel. And she's about taking tech outside, killing it. Super, super good at it. Cleo Abrams, another one, and she's. She's blown up since we've. She first, like, went independent, but she kind of had a little similar arc where she was doing videos with group. Now she's independent. Michelle Carre, another similar story. I think when people are working as a part of a machine and that have, like, really big aspirations and actually get to chase that, it's fun to watch. So I root for those stories.
- [52:52]
Host 2
How much of your day is filled with this? Because it just seems like you're doing so much, and obviously I make. I make comparisons in, like, output and, you know, I know you have a team and everything, but it seems like it's. It's very time Consuming. I know there's like that whole thing when you know, if you don't treat it like a job, it's not. But it still seems very time consuming.
- [53:13]
Marques Brownlee
No, definitely. I thankfully have ultimate Frisbee as like my counterbalance. Like the other half of my brain, the like active, competitive, ruthlessly, you know, wants to win at all costs. Half of my brain so that I can like maybe shut that off a little bit for this part. But yeah, it is a full time job. You have to treat it like a full time job. It is a very competitive space. Everyone wants your spot, everyone wants to be doing what you're doing and they want to best you. So yeah, you have to be on top of it. And so it's time consuming and there's a lot of thought that goes into it. But yeah, I'm lucky to have like the other half of my brain too. That's like completely offline and then wakes up on the weekends and it's kind of fun.
- [53:52]
Host 2
What's the age that you feel like you could go as far as ultimate? Because I'm not, I'm not, I don't know, like if there are there, are there older, older guys out there?
- [54:01]
Marques Brownlee
No, no, you're right. I'm over the hill. I'm definitely no there. I, I, so ultimate, I would say I am in like the middle of my prime. I'm probably right over the hill. Like the best players in the world are like 26 to 32. And I turned 32 this year. So I play golf too. Like there's, there's, I'm not going to play ultimate forever. My knees would not be okay if I did that. But I think you see a lot of athletes turn the competitive side onto golf when they're done with the wrecking their knees sport.
- [54:37]
Host 2
Do the two worlds ever bleed over like, or do you have MKBHD fans all of a sudden going to games? Does that happen a little bit?
- [54:45]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, which is cool. It's like I get to share this. It's a pretty small sport, so I get to sort of share a spotlight on what I think is, you know, an underrated sport and maybe the highest level of said underrated sport. So yeah, it does happen a little bit.
- [54:58]
Host 2
For your teammates, are they aware? Is it kind of a thing they jokingly mention? Does it impact anything?
- [55:06]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, they're aware. Yeah. Everyone has another job in ultimate. It's not like anyone, most people are not doing it as their full time job. So everyone has another job. So yes, they're aware and yes, it's an easy joke to make or to heckle, because there's heckles and there's fans who love to. I unsubscribed. That was a bad throat. Yeah, it's gonna happen, but that's fine. I think that's great. I like it.
- [55:29]
Host 2
Is there, I mean, when you were talking about everyone's kind of gunning for your spot, is that, is that kind of just, you know, you have that passing thought that everyone's competitive or has it ever turned into something that's far more aggressive?
- [55:43]
Marques Brownlee
No, I think it's kind of like we're all pushing each other to innovate a little bit. If I was making the same videos I was from five years ago or for 10, 10 years ago would be like, like why, why am I still making the same video? So we try to make, we try to make it a little better every time. Maybe the worst that it gets is when people copy each other. It usually doesn't happen too egregiously. But it's like the reason, like I talk about the, the robot that we have which gets these crazy shots and we're able to like work all day on an eight second intro on the robot. We do that stuff because it's so hard to copy. And if you're going to try to differentiate yourself from like the 5,000 reviews of the same exact iPhone 17, you got to find ways to be competitive and differentiate yourself. And that's just, you know, a fun version of that.
- [56:30]
Host 2
Yeah. I mean, so as far as the copying, is the, the most flagrant thumbnails or is it. Or are people doing word for words?
- [56:37]
Marques Brownlee
I think it's the easy, it's the hardest to. Well, that's actually, it's probably the, the easiest to justify that your video feels the same as someone else's because you're reviewing the same thing. Like if we're both good product analyzers or whatever and we're both analyzing the same exact product, we're both probably going to come to the same conclusions and we're going to say a lot of the same stuff. So the copying that doesn't feel like copying. The copying is like when the art style is the same or when the music is the same or the title is the same, or the thumbnail is the same. Like those things you can get very creative and do different stuff with. So maybe that feels a little, little less justifiable. But I see lots of people have the same takes as me and I don't think that's shocking because it's the same product. We're going to say a lot of the same stuff, right?
- [57:27]
Host 2
Yeah. As we're starting to wind down, I'm going to. I'm kind of interested in a question that I think you've at least been asked a version of on a creator led podcast or a creator focused podcast. But if you had to start from day one, day zero, right now you have an iPhone, I'll give you that in your pocket, how would you start to try to build back up? All social media is available to you.
- [57:53]
Marques Brownlee
Wow. So, I mean the, the high level version of this is like find what you're really, really interested in. The thing that you would pour an unreasonable amount of time into, whether it was successful or not. I still, I love tech. I like really care about tech and I would probably do a tech channel again because I have thoughts on tech and then lean into the you part of like what makes your perspective different from others or what makes your style different from others. I think Becca, who I mentioned before, is a pretty good example of this where like, I mean, she's not starting from scratch, but she kind of was. And it's like there's a bazillion tech channels already and her angle is she likes the outdoors and she likes to take the tech outdoors and see how it performs there. It's not the most mainstream version of how well does the tech work and it's quote, limiting in a way. I'm not gonna review a printer outside. But it's like, that's fun and unique and that's her and that's what she enjoys and that's what will keep you doing it whether it's successful or not. So if you gave me an iPhone tonight and you reset everything and you said you have no channels, you have 0 subscribers, what are you gonna do? I would probably say yeah, I'm gonna make a tech video and I'm gonna, I'm gonna give my thoughts while trying to sort of give some stylized B roll and I'm gonna walk around this empty parking lot in New Jersey because I got some thoughts about it.
- [59:17]
Host 2
Are there any. Are there any platforms that you think it's easier to grow than others right now?
- [59:21]
Marques Brownlee
TikTok.
- [59:23]
Host 2
TikTok. Yeah. I'm very concerned though, where. What's going to happen with it in the next few months to see like if the algo is going to change and if so, what does that look like?
- [59:34]
Marques Brownlee
It's what's the story? Is it sold? Is it re. What's happening with.
- [59:39]
Host 2
I mean, it Seems pretty much like it's going to be Ellison. You know, it seems like it's going that way. And, you know, I mean, I don't know. Anytime I don't trust any billionaire, then there are levels to each billionaire that I trust less and less and less and look concerningly at. But here's the thing. I have issues with Zuckerberg. I have many issues with Zuckerberg. To your point, I like reels. I like the Instagram ecosystem, Facebook. I'll post there because I like to hit the bee nest every now and then. But yeah, I don't know, I always assume the worst and hope for the best. And so that's where I'm at right now. But I do agree, as far as growth, TikTok and Reels feel like the.
- [60:34]
Marques Brownlee
Biggest thing, even YouTube shorts is like the amount of creators that are blowing up on YouTube shorts because it's a, it's just a supply and demand question. Right? Like, there's a lot of people scrolling a lot of shorts and there's not as many shorts as there is demand for shorts. So you can just, I mean, there's people getting 40 million subscribers in a year from scratch just doing vertical videos on YouTube.
- [60:56]
Host 2
So again, even though the, the ad sense is, is pretty low, especially when you compare it to long form, it's usually better than TikTok because I feel like TikTok caps everyone at like 400, $600 if they're part of the creator fund.
- [61:08]
Marques Brownlee
I think that's true. Yeah. And that's probably where people get more in the mindset of like leveraging it into something else. Like, okay, you just created an audience of 20 million people in a year, but you make like no money from it. You probably want to start doing something else that does make money and turn that audience towards that thing. Totally understandable. I just guess, I guess YouTube long form is such a rock as far as ads and monetization that it feels like I don't have to do that where we're at.
- [61:39]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [61:40]
Host 2
Well, I do wonder, I mean, as far as YouTube long form and the ads that they're serving, if that's going to become even stronger or weaker with the rise of, you know, like things like Atlas, where all of a sudden there is. Or just AI agents in general of people, you know, not using search as much and that kind of. That, that part of their business maybe going down. But they're also pretty embedded in a lot of these AI companies. Right?
- [62:08]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah. I do think as a content strategy, I thought a lot about this because like there is the publisher problem of like I write and I make a website and it's like now Atlas is just going to scrape what I wrote and never send clicks to my website and there goes all of my ad revenue. I think specifically to combat that, you have to have a section of your brain or your strategy that is dedicated to also being entertaining in a human way so that you can be informative and entertaining. And if Atlas tries to strip the informative part from you, they'll still go to you for the entertaining part. You at least can sort of focus on retaining an audience in that way because I think that's nuking so many publishers where it's like people didn't just like, I mean some publishers they would, but it's like people don't just go watch or read an article just for the fun of it. Like I'm trying to get some information and like now that the information's been stripped out, that's like it's, it's ruining that, that little ecosystem. So yeah, as a content creator try to be entertaining, that's not a surprising take. But it's important.
- [63:08]
Host 2
No, but I think, no, I think it's actually, it's very important because I think there are a lot of people concerned that their content, which is often used as a utility, is going to lose a lot of value. So I think differentiating being more you, that makes sense. It's those. But that's all, that's a lot of the stuff, right? It feels like it's common sense and then you kind of just sometimes need to hear, hear it out again. The last thing I'll leave you with and then I'm going to give you back your day. Sir, is there something right now that it may not even be good but you, you're hopeful that it is excited about that's on the, that's going to come out in the next one to two years. Is there something that you're kind of like, I can't wait to get my hands on or get to experience that.
- [63:48]
Marques Brownlee
Okay, I will say, you know, I mentioned the curves earlier of like technologies that are improving really fast. I think there's going to be a really, really good sub 40,000 $400 mile of range, well built electric car in the next couple years and you can get, you can like tick two of those boxes. You can't take all those boxes today, but it's gonna happen.
- [64:16]
Host 2
Sorry, I'm just laughing because I'm like, do you not pre order anymore because of the roadster. Cause you're. Anymore, are you like never again?
- [64:26]
Marques Brownlee
I can't. I mean if they. The problem, this is the problem with electric cars. It's so easy to just roll one out on stage and it's functional and it drives and you just sort of put a body on frame and then you sell the idea. So yeah, no, I won't pre order anymore if it's not real and shipping. I don't want to just give you an interest free loan. But there are incredible cars out there that are like 400 miles of range, really well built, but a quarter million dollars or they'll be $40,000 and really well built but don't have a lot of range. So I'm, I'm, I'm hoping we get to like the no brainer EV for the masses in like five years.
- [65:08]
Host 2
Awesome. Well, Marques, thank you for the time, sir, and I hope you have a great one. Thank you, man.
- [65:12]
Marques Brownlee
Yeah, thanks for having me on. It was fun.
- [65:14]
Host 2
And that, dear listener, is the end of today's podcast. Thank you for watching or listening. If it's your first time here, definitely.
- [65:19]
Host 1
Make sure you subscribe. And hey, if you enjoyed the episode.
- [65:21]
Host 2
Give it five stars on Spotify and.
- [65:23]
Host 1
Apple or give it a like on YouTube. You know what, while you're at it, leave a comment on what you agreed with, disagreed with or who you want to see next as a guest. Thank you.
- [65:29]
Host 2
Stay safe out there, stay sane out there and I'll see you next week.