In Good Faith With Philip DeFranco

Episode: The Autocratic Takeover of America With Terry Moran

Date: August 28, 2025
Guest: Terry Moran (longtime journalist, former ABC News correspondent, writer at Substack)
Main Theme:
A powerful, wide-ranging discussion on the erosion of democratic norms in the United States under a new, autocratic administration. DeFranco and Moran dig into the military occupation of American cities, the crackdown on press, the impact on local communities, gun regulation, the media's shortcomings, and the personal stakes of both journalism and fatherhood.

Episode Overview

• Opening: Lighthearted discussion on the Chicago hot dog “ketchup debate” and its symbolism in American tradition, quickly segueing into current, pressing national crises.
• Core Focus: The transformation of American governance towards autocracy, with federal military deployments in cities, threats to press freedom, and the legal architecture enabling such shifts.
• Supporting Topics: The realities versus perceptions of crime, media coverage and its limitations, Supreme Court changes, the influence of policy architects like Stephen Miller, Project 2025, and the shifting landscape of news reporting itself.
• Personal Angles: Terry Moran’s own experiences as a solo parent, the impact of fatherhood on his worldview and work, and reflections on career changes in journalism.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Chicago Hot Dog Ketchup Controversy

• [00:54–02:39]
  • Used as a light opener/deeper metaphor for tradition versus reality.
  • Terry Moran: Describes growing up in a “mixed condiment marriage” household—father White Sox/mustard, mother Cubs/ketchup—emphasizing that what people think is a “commandment” is actually just a flexible tradition.
    • “Obama’s a transplant Chicagoan…People are very militant about it, but when I was growing up, it was more of a tradition. Now it’s like a badge of being Chicago. I think it’s a bit of a put on.” (01:34, Moran)

2. Military Occupation of Cities & Federal Response

• [03:55–06:48]
  • Moran visits D.C. after federal troops’ deployment.
  • Vivid on-the-ground perspectives: Changes are profound, particularly for Latino and minority communities.
  • “It’s different when federal troops come to your city, and they probably will…It changes things most for people who are Latino, right? Whether they’re here, third, fifth generation…or whether you’re here undocumented, obviously, your life has been changed, but for everyone, really, now in different ways.” (04:38, Moran)
  • Community leaders both appreciate violent criminals being arrested and resent the budget cuts and ongoing militarization.

3. Crime: Reality vs Perception

• [06:48–11:06]
  • Statistical disparities between perception and local realities (NYC vs. D.C. murder rates).
  • “In New York City…about 112 murders…D.C.…had about 106. And it’s a city of 700,000. D.C. has a crime problem now.” (07:54, Moran)
  • “If the murders in your neighborhood go down from 10 murders to 8 murders, that is no reason to have a party. You are still like not feeling good about that.” (11:06, Moran)

4. Media’s Role and Influence

• [11:06–14:45]
  • “If it bleeds, it leads” mentality has shaped public fear and perception of crime.
  • The persistent gap between the lived experience of people in their own neighborhoods and what is shown in media.

5. Gun Policy & Supreme Court’s Impact

• [14:45–17:28]
  • Local efforts are stymied by congressional gridlock and Supreme Court rulings.
  • Constitutional originalism has led to a “cartoon version” of absolute gun rights.
  • “The history of gun ownership and gun regulation in America is much more complex than the cartoon version you get from the Supreme Court and from gun absolutists…There was more flexibility, more grease in the gears, more practicality.” (16:33, Moran)

6. First Amendment & Supreme Court Philosophies

• [17:28–21:28]
  • DeFranco probes on whether flag-burning bans could survive in current Court.
  • “There’s a libertarian streak in people like Gorsuch and Kavanaugh and Roberts… I don’t think they’re going to overturn…But…the Court…doesn't want this fight.” (18:06, Moran)
  • Critique of SCOTUS members’ lack of real-world governing experience, contrasting them with past Justices.

7. Autocratic Shift in America

• [21:28–24:20]
  • Moran affirms: “That’s what it is…The fundamental challenge for every American is to look at what's happening and name it.”
  • Historical parallels: The slow legalistic tightening in Russia, Hungary, Poland—"You could feel that Putin was the author of all this. One of the most important facts... is that Vladimir Putin was a lawyer." (21:50, Moran)
  • The signature: centralization of federal power, targeting institutions and critics, “beyond the boundaries of the Constitution.”

8. Stephen Miller, Project 2025, and Policy Execution

• [24:20–27:18]
  • On Stephen Miller: “He’s the brains. He translates Trump’s impulses into policy.”
  • Project 2025: “That is a crackerjack piece of work…I think it’s a dangerous piece of work. But if you look at Project 2025…Every crack, every crevice, every crease in every law…They’ve blown open and asserted maximal authority through what Congress never expected...” (24:47-27:18, Moran)
  • Difference between first and second Trump terms: “Too many people stopped him last time. Now, from the jump, they had the plan and they are executing on that plan.”

9. American Public’s Attitude Towards “Strongman” Governance

• [27:18–33:12]
  • Many Americans may be weary, distracted, or even quietly tolerant of “strongman” rule due to pandemic-induced distrust and disillusionment with institutions.
  • “Most people are still normal…They aren’t obsessing about politics…Americans aren’t ideologues. We're pragmatists.” (28:35, Moran)
  • Shifts in opinion often happen not out of ideology, but when policies affect people directly or become visibly unacceptable.

10. Media, Corporate Pressure, and Press Freedom

• [39:33–42:28]
  • “The business I was in…network news, corporate media, legacy media…is failing the American people. They have corporate pressure on them…The facts in front of them are eluding their coverage.” (40:00, Moran)
  • Chilling effect is real; objective reporting is stifled by fear of upsetting political power and loss of ad revenue.

11. Independent Journalism: Challenges and Opportunities

• [47:06–54:51]
  • Moran discusses “going independent”—the freedom and terror, lack of team and resources compared to network news, and the challenge of financial sustainability.
  • Substack and podcasting: growing but not yet reliably lucrative. “No, the money is not the same. That's the daunting challenge...But it's where the growth is now.” (51:09, Moran)
  • Advice from Scott Galloway: “Keep collecting that corporate paycheck as long as you possibly can.” (52:13, Moran)

12. The New News Diet

• [55:00–56:44]
  • Moran’s own media consumption: From privileged internal ABC reports to podcasts, newspapers, and curated Apple News feeds.
  • Acknowledges the importance and toxicity of X (formerly Twitter).

13. Media Echo Chambers and Right-Wing Influencer Rise

• [56:44–62:13]
  • DeFranco: Notes the growing influence of right-wing creators like Nick Fuentes and the risk of mainstream media being blindsided.
  • Moran: “When you open media to all kinds of creators...you get all kinds of creators.” (57:41)
  • The corporate media's “herd mentality” on story selection prevented innovation and comprehensive coverage.

14. Personal Stories: Fatherhood, Faith, and Vocational Mission

• [67:06–72:09]
  • Moran’s reflections on parenting children from two marriages, handling heavy news stories, and seeing work as a calling.
  • “Your work, no matter what it is, is for the next generation…I feel an obligation to open your mind and your heart to these stories, in part because it’s so heavy for kids, you know, the news is so heavy.” (70:30, Moran)
  • Finds solace in prayer, poetry, time with family, and long walks.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Ketchup on Hot Dogs as Metaphor for Tradition vs. Reality

• Terry Moran: “Obama’s a transplant Chicagoan…It's a bit of a put on...It’s not a commandment, it’s a tradition.” (01:34)

On the Reality of Military Occupation

• Moran: “It’s different when federal troops come to your city, and they probably will…It changes things.” (04:38)

The Autocratic Shift

• Moran: “The fundamental challenge for every American right now is to look at what's happening and name it.” (21:50)
• Moran: "Trump is the most dominant figure of our age around the world. Don't underestimate him. He is a world historical figure...he is the man that we were warned about by the founders that democracies fall." (24:20)

On Stephen Miller and Project 2025

• Moran: “Stephen Miller is both…a world class hater…he’s the brains. He translates Trump’s impulses into policy.” (24:47)
• Moran: “Project 2025…they’ve blown open [the laws] and asserted maximal authority…” (24:47)

Media Chilling Effect and Corporate Pressure

• Moran: “The facts in front of them are eluding their coverage. And I think they are disserving the American people." (40:00)

Trump’s Enduring Base and American Pragmatism

• Moran: “About a third, maybe a little bit more…will follow Donald Trump to the end…That is a political force to be reckoned with, no matter what happens.” (34:08)
• Moran: “Americans aren’t ideologues. We’re pragmatists.” (28:35)

On Getting Fired and Press Freedom

• Moran: “I actually looked at the tweet before I sent it and I thought, well, that's hot. But it's true.” (36:01)
• Moran: “There was this...about Miller and the whole administration bludgeoning the country daily with a voice of cruelty…It offended my sense of being an American, a free American. And I wanted to call it out and describe it accurately. And I did. And I don't regret it at all.” (36:01)

Important Timestamps

• [00:54–02:39] – Chicago hot dog debate and tradition vs. new “militancy”
• [04:38–06:48] – First-hand accounts from D.C. after federal troop deployment
• [07:54–11:06] – Crime rates, perception, and the “statistical disconnect” in urban America
• [14:45–16:33] – Supreme Court, gun rights, and legislative paralysis
• [21:28–24:20] – Moran’s “call it what it is” warning about autocracy
• [24:20–27:18] – Deep dive: Stephen Miller as architect of autocratic playbook and Project 2025
• [39:33–42:28] – Moran’s critique of corporate media and chilling effect
• [51:09–54:51] – Challenges and potential of independent journalism

Final Insights

• The Threat is Real: Both Moran and DeFranco consistently stress that America is facing an unprecedented stress test on its democratic foundations—not slow-rolling, but active autocracy normalized by legalistic measures.
• Media’s Double Bind: Legacy media cannot keep pace with the urgency of the moment, stifled by commercial and corporate self-preservation. Independent voices are crucial but struggle for financial stability and reach.
• Influence of Individuals: Stephen Miller and the Project 2025 blueprint fundamentally altered how presidential power is wielded, with other key figures weaponizing legal ambiguities for executive overreach.
• Hope Through Pragmatism: Moran maintains faith in most Americans’ innate pragmatism, suggesting there is still room for reversal—if and when the consequences become “personal and painful.”

Tone and Takeaways

Throughout, the episode balances journalistic rigor, personal candor, and urgency. Moran’s voice is measured, pragmatic, but deeply concerned; DeFranco punctuates with humor, data, and probing questions, creating an accessible yet sobering exploration of autocracy, democracy, and the future of American public discourse.

For more on Terry Moran’s reporting, including his first-hand accounts from D.C., readers can visit his Substack.