Barbour's 'Brus'

Summary

In Our Time: Barbour's 'The Brus'

Episode Release Date: July 17, 2025
Host: Melvyn Bragg
Guests: Michael Brown (Professor of Scottish History, University of St Andrews), Steve Boardman (Professor of Medieval Scottish History, University of Edinburgh), Rhiannon Purdey (Professor of English and Older Scots, University of St Andrews)

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Introduction

In this episode of In Our Time, Melvyn Bragg delves into John Barbour's "The Brus", the oldest surviving poem in Older Scots and a seminal work in Scottish literature. Through an engaging discussion with experts Michael Brown, Steve Boardman, and Rhiannon Purdey, the program explores the historical, literary, and cultural significance of this epic narrative that celebrates Robert the Bruce's quest for Scottish independence.

John Barbour and "The Brus"

John Barbour emerges as a pivotal figure in Scottish literary history. Active during the court of Robert II, Barbour's most renowned work, "The Brus", comprises approximately 13,000 lines of octosyllabic rhyming couplets. Barbour's career, as outlined by Rhiannon Purdey (02:42), includes his roles as precentor at Dunkeld Cathedral, Archdeacon of Aberdeen, and an auditor of the exchequer, indicating his significant involvement in both ecclesiastical and secular spheres.

Barbour's "The Brus" was composed during a period of relative peace in the 1370s under the reign of Robert II, offering a retrospective ode to Robert the Bruce's reign and his military triumphs, most notably the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314.

Historical Context: Scottish Independence and Bannockburn

Michael Brown provides a comprehensive background on Robert the Bruce (Robert I), highlighting his tumultuous rise to the Scottish throne in 1306 amidst the power struggles following the death of Alexander III in 1286. The ensuing conflict with the Balliol family and subsequent English intervention under Edward I set the stage for Bruce's eventual kingship and the fierce struggle for Scottish sovereignty.

The Battle of Bannockburn stands as a cornerstone event, where Bruce's forces decisively defeated the English in 1314, affirming Scotland's independence. Brown emphasizes Bannockburn's symbolic importance in Scottish national identity, noting, "It's the battle that proves that God is backing them. It's a judgment, and it shows Robert must therefore be the legitimate ruler of Scotland" (09:52).

Themes and Content of "The Brus"

Barbour's poem meticulously chronicles Bruce's ascent, battles, and eventual unification of Scotland. Michael Brown remarks on Barbour's selective storytelling, aiming to bolster Bruce's legitimacy and valor. The narrative juxtaposes Bruce's initial setbacks and exile with his triumphant return, culminating in the glorified account of Bannockburn.

Steve Boardman probes the poem's thematic focus, noting its blend of historical recounting and epic romance, intended to inspire and unify its Scottish audience. The poem serves both as historical documentation and heroic mythology, weaving personal valor with nationalistic fervor.

Language and Style: Older Scots

Rhiannon Purdey elucidates the linguistic landscape of "The Brus." Written in Alder Scots, an ancestor of modern Scots, the poem represents one of the earliest literary works in the language. Unlike the prevalent court French of the time, Barbour's choice to use Older Scots ("Ingus") was deliberate, aiming to resonate more directly with a Scottish audience.

"The Brus" employs octosyllabic couplets, a common medieval poetic form that facilitates oral recitation and memorization. Purdey highlights the poem's accessible language and rhythmic structure, making it both engaging and suitable for public performance.

Characters: Robert the Bruce and James Douglas

Robert the Bruce is portrayed as the quintessential chivalric hero—brave, cunning, and divinely favored. Barbour's narrative attributes Bruce with exceptional prowess in battle and unwavering dedication to Scottish freedom. Notably, during the Battle of Bannockburn, Bruce's strategic brilliance is celebrated through vivid descriptions of individual combat and tactical maneuvers.

James Douglas, Bruce's principal lieutenant, is another focal character. Michael Brown discusses Douglas's dual portrayal as both a loyal supporter and a figure who transgresses traditional chivalric norms. Barbour presents Douglas as a formidable warrior whose ruthless actions, such as the massacre of the English garrison, are justified within the context of reclaiming Scottish sovereignty.

Chivalry and Warfare: A Complex Interplay

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around chivalry's representation in "The Brus." Melvyn Bragg points out the poem's exploration of the balance between chivalric virtue and martial brutality. While Bruce exemplifies knightly honor and prowess, the narrative does not shy away from depicting morally ambiguous actions taken in the pursuit of national independence.

Quotes from the discussion illustrate this tension:

• Rhiannon Purdey explains, "Barbara is so interested in it. And he talks about people performing such great chivalry" (21:34).
• Melvyn Bragg adds, "Chivalry is a very wide portfolio in the 14th century... there's an emphasis on Robert's prowess, his ability to hit people very hard and chop their heads off" (14:50).

This duality reflects the broader medieval context, where chivalric ideals often coexisted with the harsh realities of warfare.

Military Strategy and Heroism

Barbour's detailed accounts of battles, including tactical maneuvers and individual acts of heroism, serve to immortalize Bruce's leadership qualities. Rhiannon Purdey recounts an illustrative scene: Bruce, underestimated and outnumbered, single-handedly defeats an English knight, Henry de Boon, emphasizing Bruce's invincibility and strategic mind (25:03).

Michael Brown notes, "Bruce turns Around. His men come and find Bruce afterwards, and they find him casually sitting on the bank of the river with 14 corpses littered about him" (25:19), showcasing the legendary prowess attributed to Bruce.

Legacy and Influence

The episode explores "The Brus'" enduring impact on Scottish national identity. Melvyn Bragg highlights how later generations, especially during the 15th and 16th centuries, revered Barbour's depiction of Bruce as a model king, fostering a sense of unity and national pride. The poem's legacy extends into modern Scottish literature, influencing writers like Sir Walter Scott, who echoed similar themes of heroism and national heritage.

Michael Brown emphasizes the poem's dual role as both a literary masterpiece and a historical artifact, though he cautions that "it's good poetry, it's just terrible history" (44:07), underscoring the blend of fact and artistic license.

Notable Quotes

• Rhiannon Purdey (12:22): "These are probably the most famous lines now from Barbara's Bruce. If anybody knows any lines from Barbara's Bruce, it's probably these because you will find them in modern anthologies."

• Barbour's "The Brus" Excerpt (38:27):

  "Freedom is a noble thing. Freedom gives man pleasure. Freedom makes you happy, it gives you solace. You can live at ease if you have freedom. And a noble heart particularly, can never have ease, can never be relaxed, can't ever be happy unless he has freedom."

• Melvyn Bragg (41:06): "It's the approach that seems to be most successful for the Scottish realm in the long run over the 14th and 15th centuries."

Conclusion

Barbour's "The Brus" stands as a cornerstone of Scottish literary and historical tradition, blending epic storytelling with nationalistic pride. Through meticulous scholarship and lively discussion, the In Our Time episode illuminates how this medieval poem not only chronicles Robert the Bruce's endeavors but also shapes the cultural consciousness of Scotland. The interplay of chivalric ideals, martial valor, and national identity within the poem underscores its enduring relevance and appeal.

For those intrigued by the fusion of history and literature, "The Brus" offers a compelling narrative that continues to inspire and resonate within Scottish heritage.

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions presented in the "Barbour's 'The Brus'" episode of In Our Time, providing a comprehensive overview for listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Melvin Bragg]

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[Steve Boardman]

This is in our time from BBC Radio 4 and this is one of more than a thousand episodes you can find on BBC Sounds and on our website. If you scroll down the page for this edition, you find a reading list to go with it. I hope you enjoy the program. Hello. Around 1375, John Barber wrote the Bruce, the oldest surviving poem in older Scots and the only source of many of the stories of Robert the Bruce and his victory over the English at Bannockburn style. 60 years before, in almost 14,000 lines of rhyming couplets, Barber distilled the aspects of the Bruce's history most relevant for his own time. When the mood was for a new war against England after decades of disasters. Barber's battle scenes are meant to stir in the name of freedom, and the effect of the whole is to assert Scotland as the rightful equal of any power in Europe. With me to discuss Barbers the Bruce are Michael Brown, professor of Scottish History at the University of St. Andrews, Steve Boardman, professor of Medieval Scottish History at the University of Edinburgh, and Rhiannon Purdey, professor of English and Older Scots at the University of St. Andrews. Rhiannon, what, if anything, do we know about John Barber himself?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Well, we know he was active at the court of Robert ii. The first record we have of him is he's the precentor at Dunkeld Cathedral and he then becomes Archdeacon of Aberdeen in 1356. So that's the first point in his career. We don't know when he was born. We often guess. People often say maybe 1320, 1325. Absolutely no evidence for it. The first record we have of him is 1355 and then 1356 thereafter. There are records of him going out to England and France on study leave in the 1360s. By the 1370s, he is occasionally appearing at Robert's Court as an auditor of the exchequer in the 1370s, and he does that again in the 1380s, 1378, he gets a pension from Robert of a pound a year. So we assume this is perhaps for composing the Bruce. He dies in Aberdeen in 1395.

[Steve Boardman]

Well, that sums it up, doesn't it?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Here we go.

[Steve Boardman]

The language of the poem is older Scots. What's that language and who was using it at the time?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Well, we now call it Alder Scots because it is the ancestor of what we now call Scots. But what Barbara called it was Ingus. And as far as he was concerned, it was just another dialect of English. You know, there's English spoken in Yorkshire, very different from English spoken in London, very different from English spoken in Herefordshire. So it was the English that was spoken in Scotland. And that's what he's speaking and that's what he's writing, and that's what he calls it when he mentions the language.

[Steve Boardman]

And was this widely written in this way?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

The only records we have of written Scots start. The only thing that has survived for us dates from the 1370s. So this is not just the earliest literary work in Alder Scots, it's one of the earliest bits of writings in Scots. The poem itself, it's a poem. It's in octosyllabic couplets, so eight syllable rhyming couplets. So it's actually a very basic and common form for medieval narrative works. So plenty of other chronicles are written in it, all kinds of other works as well. Romances, many of the romances that Barbara's read. But it's not tied to any particular form. It's kind of the minimal poetic form you can use, which is easy to read, easy to recite, it's got a regular rhythm, it's relatively easy to write because you only have to rhyme a couplet, then move on to the next couplet. There's nothing to stop it. It's a bit like a train. So it gives it this sort of impetus. And it's also easier to read on a page because you get a relatively narrow column that you can let your eye trail down. So it's much easier to read than prose, for example. So this is why it was quite attractive to write in.

[Steve Boardman]

Steve, can I ask you. Its central character is Robert the Bruce. Can you tell us a bit about Robert the Bruce and why he's writing about him?

[Melvin Bragg]

Well, Robert Bruce is better known perhaps as Robert I, King of Scotland, from 1306 to his death in 1329. The way Bruce comes to the throne is unusual, to say the least. His family has a claim to the crown, which becomes active after the death of the Scottish king, Alexander III in 1286. And after Alexander III's death, there's a competition develops between two families, Bruce's family and the Balliol family. In the end, the Balliol claim wins out. So King John Balliol is made king in 1292. But crucially, at that point, who's been involved in arbitrating that contest is Edward I of England. And Edward I has established his superiority over the Scottish kingdom in the course of that contest. When Edward asks for those. Those rights to be recognised by Balliol, Balliol refuses. And in 1296, Edward I invades Scotland, deposes Balliol, and we're into a long period where Scotland is governed directly by the English king.

[Steve Boardman]

Let's get back to Robert de Bruce. What's he doing here?

[Melvin Bragg]

At that point, Robert is actually quite supportive of Edward because Edward represents a potential way back into the kings. So for about 10 years, Robert Bruce, Earl of Carrick, Lord of Annandale, oscillates between resisting the English administration in Scotland and cooperating with them against the Balliols and their allies.

[Steve Boardman]

Okay, let's talk about the state of Scotland, of Red tammat in the 1370s, when Barbour was writing. Who was king then?

[Melvin Bragg]

The king in the 1370s is Robert the Steward, Robert Bruce's grandson, who's come to the throne in 1371. So in the terms of the long context of the 14th century, it's a period of peace. But there are still areas of the Scottish kingdom held by English lords that has been allowed by the terms of the truce established in 1357, and that truce is renewed in 1369. So it looks as if important places for the Scottish realm, places like Berwick, Jedburgh, Roxburgh, are going to remain in English hands for the foreseeable future. And there's a constituency within Scotland, Scotland, particularly younger lords with interest in the borders who want to reclaim those lands, reclaim their own estates that are at the moment denied them.

[Steve Boardman]

Thank you, Michael Brown. We don't need the full plot. But what does Barbers the Bruce cover? What period in People?

[Michael Brown]

Barber makes a big deal of telling the truth, but he's also very careful in the way he frames his story. And he starts it in 1306 with Robert becoming king, and takes it through to the death of Robert and his two principal captains, James Douglas and Thomas Randolph, between 1329 and 32.

[Steve Boardman]

It's a long stretch.

[Michael Brown]

It is a long stretch. It's 14,000 lines, as we've heard. So he's. He's trying to distill those elements of the story which he wants his audience to grab on to. I think the seizure of the throne and how it's a legitimate thing. So this controversial.

[Steve Boardman]

So he's trying to make Robert legitimate.

[Michael Brown]

Yeah, he's. Well, I think Scots regard Robert as legitimate by this time. But what Barber is doing is trying to elevate that legitimacy and link it to a story about heroism and prowess as well. So he's glamorizing the narrative to a certain extent, and he does that by telling stories about Bruce's initial defeats, his flight into exile and then his return, and the way, almost individually, he's holding off English forces or assassins who are trying to kill him, and then onto the kind of narrative of grander warfare leading up to Bannockburn, which, you know, in some ways is the climax of the whole poem. And then from that, you have episodes of war in Northern England and in Ireland, culminating in the triumphant peace treaty that Bruce secures in 1328 and the succession of his son.

[Steve Boardman]

Well, we skipped over Bannockburn. For the few people listening who don't know about Bannockburn. Could you tell us what happened then and why it's so important?

[Michael Brown]

It's important for the Scots. And this is a Scottish poem, as we've heard written in the 1370s, because at that point, it's their one great victory over the English. It's the battle that proves that God is backing them. It's a judgment, and it shows Robert must therefore be the legitimate ruler of Scotland and that Edward II of England has no legitimate right over Scotland. So it's a vindication of the Scottish claim. I think it allows Robert, from that point on in the reign, to rule what has been a very divided kingdom, as if those divisions had gone. They haven't necessarily gone, but he's able to do that. So in his own lifetime, he's able to do that. And looking back from the 1370s, time always smooths out these things. People are able to accept Bannockburn as this great national victory. And that's what Barber is writing up.

[Steve Boardman]

Well, why did Barber write this at this time? It's a massive project.

[Michael Brown]

I mean, I think it relates to what Steve was talking about, about the 1370s. You've got a new dynasty on the throne, the Stuart dynasty, whose claim is through Robert Bruce. Robert II is the grandson, as well as having the same name as Robert I, Robert Bruce. So it's about drawing that connection with the new family. It's also, I think, because Scotland is in a place where it has been relatively secure, as Steve was saying, because of the truce, but war is not that far away. So it's about reminding Scots what they've been through in the past as well. I mean, the question of whether he's writing it for someone. So Robert Stuart, the new King of Scots, Robert the first Grandson, I think, has a relationship with John Barber and maybe the patron, or certainly John Barber has him in mind when he's writing. So it might be that there are other people in Scotland in the 1370s whose family have achieved great things and base their power on what's happened under Robert the First reign. So reminding Scots of their ancestors, I think, is part of the purpose, too.

[Melvin Bragg]

The case to be made for some sort of patronage is that his other known work, which is lost, is a history of the Stuart family, which seems to indicate that he's quite closely in the service of either Robert the Steward himself or one of Robert the Steward's many sons.

[Steve Boardman]

Rhiannon, can you give us a taste of how the poem might have sounded in performance?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

I can give you the opening lines if you'd like.

[Steve Boardman]

I take them with ribbons around them. Thank you very much.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

So the poem begins. Stories to read are dilatable. Suppose that they be noch but fable Than should stories that soothfast were, and they were said on good manner have double pleasance in hearing. The first pleasance is the carping, the telling of them and the tother, the soothfastness that shows the thing richt as it wears.

[Steve Boardman]

Do you want to translate any of that?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Sure. This is Barbara setting out his stall, really. He's explaining why he's writing this and what the value of it is. So stories in themselves are pleasant, even if they're not true. But if you can tell a story that has truth, there's a double pleasure in that. First of all in the telling, just the fun of hearing a story, and secondly in hearing things right as they were actually hearing history unfolding. And that's what he's offering to his readers and listeners.

[Steve Boardman]

What are the star turns in the poem? Is he particularly good at battles?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Well, he particularly likes battles and he's clearly writing for an audience who likes battles. There are so many incidents of Robert finding himself, you know, in straightened circumstances. He's either alone or he's only got two men. And he's fighting against so many, but he fights so brilliantly and everybody's striking on everybody else. You know, the battle scenes are very similar, but he's obviously writing for an audience who loves this kind of thing. It's a bit like going to see an adventure film, you know, they might be full of cliches, you know, but. But it's what clearly what the audience was looking for, this, this kind of nightly battling and axes being struck onto heads and cleaving them down to the brains. Endlessly he's trying to infuse history with excitement.

[Steve Boardman]

So there's a kind of contest between chivalry and brutality, isn't there, really? Where do you stand on that, Steve?

[Melvin Bragg]

Well, the Bruce is one text of many that are produced in the 14th century that deal with the warfare of the age. In the 14th century, the era of the Hundred Years War is notable for the levels of violence in and around Europe. And so the Bruce is part of this wider literary exploration of the delivery of violence, the chivalric virtue, the prowess, the bravery, but also reflecting on what it means to be a chivalric lord. What other qualities are you supposed to.

[Steve Boardman]

Can you give us some examples?

[Melvin Bragg]

Well, in terms of the Bruce itself, there's obviously an emphasis on Robert's prowess, his ability to hit people very hard and chop their heads off.

[Steve Boardman]

Still on a horse.

[Melvin Bragg]

Yeah. But also an exploration of other qualities like measure, prudence, acting with cunning and slicht. There's an attempt to suggest that there are different ways to fight. And although we tend to have an idea of chivalry as a type of honorable, open field warfare, in a couple of passages, Bruce particularly talking about the ethics of killing an English garrison in.

[Steve Boardman]

Their sleep, people while they're asleep. It's not very chivalric, is it?

[Melvin Bragg]

You wouldn't think so, but in the poem you get this little aside to say, in effect, well, any warrior who is effective would not mind and we will receive no reproach or no reproof for behaving in this way. So there's a rough and readier idea of chivalry. Chivalry that wins.

[Steve Boardman]

Just a second. Can we just pause here? People are asleep, they go and kill them while they're asleep now. What's chivalrous about that? I mean, how do they square it with chivalry? I'm just interested. I mean, it seems mad to me. There you go. You can explain all this.

[Melvin Bragg]

Chivalry is a very wide portfolio in the 14th century. Yeah. And in fact, I mean, one of the interesting things about Bruce is that you get this sort of played out in conversations between, in particular, two of Bruce's lieutenants, James Douglas and Thomas Randolph, Earl of Murray. And Thomas Randolph, Earl of Murray, is constantly making observations on the behaviour of his fellows, saying, this really isn't good, you know, we really shouldn't be behaving in this way. But, yes, one of the things about the Bruce as a work is that it's very much on the more rough and ready end of chivalric texts in the 14th century. It's laying out how to fight and win a war. Yeah.

[Steve Boardman]

That's brutality, isn't it? Michael, do you want to come in?

[Michael Brown]

I mean, I think Steve's absolutely right. I mean, I think one of the elements that does come through is that aside from Edward I, who's presented as a tyrant and, you know, a homicidal maniac in many ways at the opening of the book, and then he disappears, the English aren't presented in terms of being, if you like, morally wrong. They are worthy opponents and they're giving Bruce a good reputation. And they're in turn being praised for their nobility and their own qualities, because you want a competition between equals. And in a sense, that's what chavarick values in the 14th century around war are about. It's about understanding the rules. Steve's absolutely right that the Scots or barber also knows his audience are going to cheer if he shows certain individuals transgressing. And James Douglas, Bruce's lieutenant and almost the second figure in the narrative.

[Steve Boardman]

Can you say a little more about Douglas, because he's an important figure.

[Michael Brown]

Yeah. So James Douglas historically emerges from a baronial family in southwestern Scotland in the valley of the River Clyde, to become Bruce's principal military lieutenant and to build a kind of family name and reputation and land holding that sweeps across southern Scotland. So he's the founder of a dynasty. And in the 1370s, his family are in the audience, powerful individuals, and they want to see him presented in a way which is not simply as a noble chivalric warrior, but as someone who is transgressing those rules. So he massacres the English garrison of his own castle on Palm Sunday when they're in church. He takes the prisoners back and slaughters them in the cellars of his own castle. And again, there's a double edge here because that's completely against the rules of chivalry. And yet the Scots see that as legitimate because why are these people here, why are they denying Douglas his birthright? The illegitimacy of their presence removes them in that case from the protections of chivalry.

[Melvin Bragg]

Yeah, I think that reflects back on the Turnberry case because Turnberry is Bruce's castle. And that preamble to say, well, nobody will reproach us if we take this action against a garrison that is totally unsuspecting for a noble audience. Landed inheritance is everything. And those who deny you your inheritance, in a certain sense, the rules are off. That's what the audience in the 13:7 is. Think and respond to.

[Michael Brown]

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[Rhiannon Purdey]

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[Rhiannon Purdey]

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[Rhiannon Purdey]

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[Steve Boardman]

What do you think of the use of this word? Is it being misused?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Rihanna, Chivalry? Yeah, it's not being misused because Barbara is so interested in it. And he talks about people performing such great chivalry. He's interested in the display of knightly virtue. So prowess, loyalty. I mean, this business of reclaiming your heritage, I mean, that's the Barbara's Bruce writ large, really. And it's the Scots reclaiming their heritage. So they will. They will fight to demonstrate their great chivalry. But if occasionally a small band of Scots has to trick and perhaps slaughter in their sleep a larger band of English, that's okay because they are recovering their heritage. The kind of moral justification for it. They shouldn't be here anyway, so, you know, we'll just kill them.

[Steve Boardman]

You know, let's go back to the poem. What did we. We touched on it, but can you give us an idea of what he did at Bannockburn in terms of writing about it?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

He gives us details of sort of military planning, manoeuvres. You know, the fact that Bruce has his men dig holes in the ground where he expects the English are going to come past. So we get.

[Steve Boardman]

So they break the legs of the horses.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So we get the military strategist, but we also, you know, for the audience, we've got this sort of sense of individual combat. So, you know, we have. We have the Scots watching the English and the English trying to guess what the Scots are going to do. But the opening Sally is again, this kind of individual combat between an English knight called Henry de Boon and Bruce. This is the first kind of blow struck, and we. Barbara really sets this scene up beautifully. Remember, all before Bannockburn, we've had all these stories of Bruce sort of hiding, being hunted. You know, Bruce, the outlaw with the.

[Steve Boardman]

Spider in the cave.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

No, no, that's. That. That's an 18th century edition. No spiders in here. Not too much like, sorry. But there's lots of other exciting things. Hunting dogs. So. But I mean, he's. He has endless stories which. Which all kind of blend together, really. But then the essence of them is always that Bruce is outnumbered and people underestimate him. They think, right, we've got him on his own. This is great. We can kill him. But no, they can't kill him. Bruce turns Around. His men come and find Bruce afterwards, and they find him casually sitting on the bank of the river with 14 corpses littered about him. Because somebody underestimated Bruce again. So by the time we get to Bannockburn, we know as an audience, nobody can surprise Bruce. Nobody does well if they underestimate Bruce. So with this opening scene, we have Henry de Boone. So looking at the Scots ranks, and he spots Bruce. And we're told that he sees Bruce riding around not on a war horse, but just on a palfrey. An ordinary. Basically, he's just cantering about on a pony. And he's got an axe, so he's not looking very grand. And Henry, the dou boon, we're told, is armit fiend. And he's got fantastic armor on. And he's on a stade. He's on a massive war horse. And he thinks, brilliant. I'm gonna have the king. And he rides towards the king, and Bruce sees him riding towards him.

[Steve Boardman]

And we break into first world.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

We break it. We can break. Yeah, yeah. So we've got Henry sort of looking at Bruce, and he thought that he should, well, lately win him Bruce and have him at his will. Sin he saw him horsed sa ill. He's only on a pathetic little horse sprint. They sam and into the ling. They sprinted toward each other in a line. Sir Henry missed the noble king. And he that in his stirrups stood with the axe that was heard and good with swa great mane roched him a dint that nuther hat na helmicht stint the heavy dish that he him gave that near the head to the harness. Clave runs towards him. Bruce stands up in his stirrups, swipes down with the axe straight into Henry's brains. That's what happens when people underestimate Bruce.

[Steve Boardman]

I see. Right.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

That's how Bannockburn is set up.

[Steve Boardman]

The historic. Your. Your author there, your barber really adores Bruce, doesn't he?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

He does absolute hero worship.

[Steve Boardman]

Does he go. Does it go just a little over the top?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Well, I mean, he's patterning him after the great heroes of romance, sort of fictional romance. So he's, you know, he's. He's casting him in that light. And of course, he has this historical figure who did win the battle of Bannockburn and who did hang on to the crown against the pretty fearsome odds at the beginning. So he's imagining what kind of person must he have been? So that's what he reaches for.

[Steve Boardman]

Can we stick with Bannockburn for a moment? Because it's a big, wonderful centrepiece for all of you. Steve, what would it meant to his listeners?

[Melvin Bragg]

Scots through the 15th and 16th century returned to Barbara's Bruce as a type of model for their own society, saying here's a great king loyally supported by the lords and offering them good lordship. So it becomes almost a type of golden age that scots through the 14th, 15th century look back to and invoke as a type of totem of the coherence of their kingdom.

[Steve Boardman]

Michael, can we be a little more specific about his brilliance as a leader of men and in combat? If everything the Bible says is true, his brilliant in combat about how good he is at what he does?

[Melvin Bragg]

Yes.

[Michael Brown]

I mean, there's a problem there which you've already kind of hinted at, which is how much do we believe Barber? Barber loves Bruce and Barbara's writing for an audience that loves Bruce and historians love the detail and information it gives us gives us about Bruce and have tended to rely on him a little too much, maybe.

[Steve Boardman]

Well, you've got to define a little before we go on.

[Michael Brown]

Well, his account of man at burn. So his account of man at burn has been identified as, in a sense, a narrative which is praising particular families and individuals who are there in 1370s and inventing roles for people on the battlefield nobody else mentions. So maybe he's just got better information or maybe he's writing an account which, whilst fundamentally based on events that are recognized, is also adding in details which isn't going to get tick boxes with the audience.

[Steve Boardman]

Well, let's particularize this to the Douglas family.

[Michael Brown]

Okay.

[Steve Boardman]

How they figured and why they're important and how they come into this business of the account.

[Michael Brown]

Yeah, I mean, the poem from the beginning is set up as not simply a biography of Robert, but as a biography of Robert and James Douglas. His lieutenant barber introduces James Douglas as a youth deprived of his lands by Edward the First, and then deciding to join Robert. And he signposts at their meeting that these two men are going to work together to free Scotland. So there's a double narrative and there's a whole series of episodes with Douglas who like Bruce, is undertaking exploit leadership. He clearly is someone whose reputation is for transgressing the rules of normal behavior. In Barber, he's called the good Sir James. The English contemporary label for him is Black Douglas. And the family chooses the black label. And supposedly in north country mothers will frighten their children to sleep by saying hushy, hushy, the Black Douglas will get ye. So that reputation as almost terrorizing the English is something which the Douglas family latches onto, and James Douglas becomes their kind of focal point. And they're key figures in Scotland in the 1370s. So they're lapping this stuff up. And the information may be from their family stories, too.

[Steve Boardman]

And this is all in the cause of getting Scotland recognized as a country in its own right, the equal of any other country in what we might call Europe with any other countries.

[Michael Brown]

I think there's two things going on. I mean, this is a story by a Scot for Scots, but it's also about for the audience seeing themselves as something which is participating in a wider frame of reference, you know, going back to the ideas of chivalry. And Robert himself is generally presented as someone who is honorable towards his captives, who recognizes the fallen and respects them for the most part. Certainly post Bannockburn. And, you know, if you're Scotland and you're on the kind of northern edge of Europe, your route to the continent, which used to be via England, is now shut off. You're conscious of a need to recognize and be seen as part of this wider European, if you like, elite society.

[Steve Boardman]

French seems to enter this.

[Michael Brown]

This is the period, the 14th century, when the Franco Scottish alliance becomes increasingly important. And Scotland's main continental ally is the kingdom of France, also at war with England in the Hundred Years War. The French don't appear very much in this narrative, but when you're in the 1370s and further into the 1380s, the Franco Scottish alliance is very real. And the Douglases as a family are particularly associated with it. So that awareness of how this plays out is important. At the end of the poem, James Douglas carries Robert Bruce's heart on crusade to Spain.

[Steve Boardman]

Yes, I kind of wonder how it lasts. What does it put in a special.

[Michael Brown]

Sealed casket in a lead casket. And they've discovered that casket at Melrose Abbey.

[Steve Boardman]

Really?

[Michael Brown]

Well, they think they have. They have something that looks very like. It would be that casket, but it's a lead sealed lead box.

[Steve Boardman]

Did they open it?

[Michael Brown]

I think they did, but there's not much.

[Steve Boardman]

Rhiannon. We're talking about a man who's very conscious of writing this barber, very consciously, literally alluding to other heroic poems. Can you mention one or two of them and tell us the effects of this? Might have.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

He does. I mean, one of the interesting things about his literary allusions is that every one of them that we can trace is to a romance that was only available in French. So there are romances, and there's plenty of romances in Middle English by this point that he could Conceivably audience could have got hold of, been reading. But when he refers specifically to these chivalric texts, they are. They are French texts and they're older French texts. So, for example, le Romance du. The Romance of Thebes, that's one that comes up more than once. This is the story of the siege of Thebes. So after Oedipus dies, his two sons agree to share a kingdom, year in, year out. But Eteocles is on the throne for a year and doesn't want to give it up. So Polynices collects together the heroes, the Argives, and they attack Thebes to try and recover his rightful kingdom. This was enormously popular, this, this tale around Europe. Barber refers to this specifically when Bruce. One of his many episodes of being sort of apparently trapped by the people chasing him. The men of Galloway are hunting him and he finds himself alone in a ford and he realizes he's too far away to get his men, so he's got to turn and face them alone.

[Steve Boardman]

Sometimes he's facing an enormous number of men on his own, isn't he? On a narrow path with the cliff behind him.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

And so in this case, 200.

[Steve Boardman]

200 men, yes.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

And Barbara stops at this point and says, it just reminds us that it's very much like when the hero Tydeus, who is kind of the messenger of Polynices sent to try and reclaim the kingdom, is ambushed by Teocles men. And he's ambushed by 50 men. Not 200, just 50. And he manages to fight them off. And this is a really famous episode. So Barbara says, you know, it's like this, but of course, you know, Bruce is facing 200 men and, you know, who do you think is better?

[Steve Boardman]

He finishes, that's only one of the heroic examples he brings forward. So he's building him up there all the time.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

He's building him up, yeah.

[Steve Boardman]

Is there any sense of verification? Do we have a BBC verifier?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

We don't. But what he's really interested in are these huge kind of epic. They're called Romans just because they were written in French, but these epic stories, so they have huge political scope. You know, it's somebody reclaiming a kingdom or it's the. The story of the fall of Troy. The fall of Troy.

[Steve Boardman]

We're going back to the Greeks.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Fall of Troy. So Douglas, of course, is compared to Hector.

[Steve Boardman]

Yes.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

So not to king, but is. We have a. Specifically compared to Hector of Troy, even says he has a bit of a lisp, just like Hector of Troy was supposed to have had a lisp or a murmur or, you know, a slight speech impediment that was apparently felt to be very manly, you know, better things to do than talk to people.

[Steve Boardman]

Steve, they're lost to us. But have we an idea Barbara's sources for all this stuff?

[Melvin Bragg]

I think we can speculate reasonably confidently about two or three sources that Barbara must have had in front of him, and one obviously relates to Robert Bruce himself. A lot of these elaborated, embellished stories of Bruce escaping almost certain death really occur in quite a narrow chronological window. They're the first two, three years of his reign, and they seem to belong to a tale that is circulating in Europe well before Barbara writes and which seems to concentrate on Bruce's outlaw years, that they present Bruce as an outlaw who is threatened by his enemies. But like a good outlaw, because he has God's backing and because of his own morality, moral courage and prowess, he wins out. A sort of variant on the Robin Hood tale. There's also clearly a collection related to the life of James Douglas that Michael's already mentioned, which seems to run through from Douglass's early life through to his perhaps his death on Crusade in 1330. It reads more like something like the life of Bertrand de Guesclin, the French constable, slightly the story of a man who is rising up from a fairly low social position to become rewarded for his military virtues and his loyalty. And so it becomes a tale of the recovery of a nation, the recovery of a kingdom, rather than a conventional chivalric tale, which I suppose comes back to the question that you're asking right at the start. But what is chivalry that the Douglas tale seems to be slightly more, shall we say, robust.

[Steve Boardman]

Is he seen as a romantic outlaw? Do people like this outlaw?

[Michael Brown]

Part of it. It's penance. So partly because he becomes king, having murdered his main rival in a church and is excommunicated by the church for that homicidal act and sacrilegious act. And Barber presents all the suffering he undergoes, having to be sort of pursued around his own kingdom for years by his enemies. So that's kind of expiating the sin. So there is that element to it.

[Melvin Bragg]

As well, and the idea of atoning for his sins. And that comes full circle at the end of the tale, where Bruce wants his heart to be taken on crusade, at least partly in expiation of his sins. He says, my hands are covered in blood, and so I want to go on crusade to achieve that type of atonement. He doesn't do it in his own life. So he has James Douglas.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

It seems appropriate, given that his hands are even more covered in blood than anybody else's.

[Steve Boardman]

Yes. Can we come back to this poem? And why did it matter? That was in older Scots, rather than, say, court French, which was popular at the time, Michael.

[Michael Brown]

Yeah, that was. I mean, that's one of the intriguing things, is the choice of language, because it is, I think, a point at which that's a conscious decision. It's not automatic. And there's an obvious comparison. So there's a chronicle written by an English knight from Heaton in Northumberland, Thomas Gray, who's spent time as a prisoner in Scotland, written a decade earlier, and he writes that in Anglo Norman. So in the French form spoken in Britain. So Barber choosing to use Scots, the English form is a conscious decision. And personally, I think it's practicality, it's what his audience understands. There's a letter from, actually the end of the century where a Scottish earl writing to Henry IV of England says, marvel you not that I write in English, but it's clearer to my understanding than French or Latin. So you're getting to a point where possibly the aristocratic class is starting to find, well, to start to move away from the use of French, certainly in Scotland. And you're seeing similar sorts of linguistic shift amongst the elite in England. If you're thinking of the great poets of the late 14th century in England.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Well, Fossard is the French chronicler, is in Scotland in 1370s, I think 65. 65, okay, 1360s. And he comments that, you know, we're supposed to have this great alliance, but the Scots don't speak French and they won't speak French. They don't want to speak French. So, I mean, Barbour himself clearly read French and had all these safe conducts to France who clearly spoke French. There must have been. There are some people still writing the occasional diplomatic letter in French. So there are people who knew French, but not everybody, and perhaps less willingness to use it.

[Steve Boardman]

There's an important passage on freedom.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Well, these are probably the most famous lines now from Barbara's Bruce. If anybody knows any lines from Barbara's Bruce, it's probably these because you will find them in modern anthologies. A little extract from Barbara's Bruce. If there's any extract from Barbara's Bruce, it'll be these lines.

[Steve Boardman]

Okay?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

He writes, ah, freedom is a noble thing. Freedom mars man to have liking Freedom all solace to man gives he lives at ease that freely lives A noble heart may have none A's na else Nought that may him plays Gie. Freedom fail for free liking is yarnet o' er all other thing so. Well, first of all, freedom is a noble thing. Freedom gives man pleasure. Freedom makes you happy, it gives you solace. You can live at ease if you have freedom. And a noble heart particularly, can never have ease, can never be relaxed, can't ever be happy unless he has freedom. If freedom fails, then you cannot be happy. Freedom is desired above all other things by noble hearts. He's obviously, he's not worried about what peasants and the ordinary man might want. He's not going to be free anyway. But noble hearts.

[Steve Boardman]

Does he define freedom in any way?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

All of us opening our minds here. Well, where should we start?

[Steve Boardman]

Well, start wherever you want, as long as you start somewhere.

[Melvin Bragg]

Yeah. I mean, that makes it sound very aspirational and quite cuddly, but in fact, that passage goes on to really define freedom as the opposite of thraldom. That's the threat to come under the dominion of others and to be. To find your rights and privileges stripped away from you. So freedom as a positive goal is what we tend to read. But for Barber and for his audience, it's the lurking danger of thraldom that's. That's the issue, Michael.

[Michael Brown]

Yeah, and that thraldom, this is book one. So this is Barber getting his message across at the beginning. And thraldom is what English rule means, that Scots are not free to enjoy their property, they're not free to protect their families. They are preyed upon by the English king and his forces. So it's this quite stark representation of the point at which Bruce enters the narrative, if you like. This is what he's saving Scotland from. So it's part of that build up.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

He does have towards the end, has a little. A very clarkly little comparison there, where he says, wise men may say that wedding being married is the hardest bond, but thraldom is, well, worse than death. Even worse than death and marriage. Thraldom would be, which is, you know, possibly, you know, not going to go down quite so well these days, but playing to an audience largely of men.

[Steve Boardman]

Seems to me there's a sense in which the. It's a practical poem, this huge poem saying how to fight and beat the English. Did you think he got it right?

[Melvin Bragg]

It's certainly the approach that seems to be most successful for the Scottish realm in the long run over the 14th and 15th centuries. The background to the appearance of the Bruce, although they're looking back to this great Scottish triumph at Bannockburn, in the intervening years, Scottish armies have been regularly and devastatingly defeated at Duppland Moor, Haladon Hill, at Neville's Cross. So in a sense, he's distilling the wisdom gleaned from defeat and military disaster. He says, this is the way we have to fight and it's a legitimate way to fight. So there is a shift in the way that people across Europe think about chivalry. It's not just a moral code, it's a way to fight effectively as well.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

That is a contradiction that's inherent in chivalry, not just in barbarous version of it. I mean, this business that to be a good knight, you must display chivalric prowess, which means fighting people and killing people, and yet you're also supposed to be a good Christian, which generally doesn't involve, you know, I mean, this is. This is one of the sort of contradiction of the Crusade. So we have other works about chivalry fretting about exactly where the line should be drawn.

[Michael Brown]

I mean, Henry V massacring the French prisoners of Agincourt is a famous example. It's military necessity. He's worried that these people would be liberated, so he has them killed on the battlefield once they've surrendered. Totally against the laws of chivalry, but justifiable. And I think it's that.

[Steve Boardman]

Justifiable to whom?

[Michael Brown]

To him, in the same way that this is justifiable to the Scots. So these people are, you know, as Steve is saying, this is a pragmatic text as well as an idealistic one.

[Steve Boardman]

Same with you, Michael. What's. What, if any, has been the wider impact of this Barber's poem, the Bruce in his own time. And if you can, if you've got the stamina.

[Michael Brown]

And since one thing that needs to be said is the earliest manuscripts of this text, which is not surprising amongst medieval texts, are considerably later. So the earliest manuscripts come from nearly just over a century later, in the 1480s. But we have references to this as the key source for knowing about Robert from the generation after Barbara's writing. So in the early and mid 15th century, there are Scottish chroniclers who are saying, if you want to know more about this, go to Archdeacon Barber's book. So for a Scottish writer, that's probably good provenance. So we know that other writers are reading this and also that it's an authority on the period. And then in the 1480s, you have, strangely, two manuscripts produced by the same scribe in Fife for a much more middle class, middle folk kind of audience. So it's written for a local cleric who's from a local Fife family. And that suggests you've got a kind of dissemination of this text, but actually by that stage, it's often grouped alongside a text called the Wallace, about William Wallace, which is much worse in almost every measurable respect. As poetry is history, as storytelling.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

It's good poetry, Michael, it's just terrible history.

[Michael Brown]

Okay, there we are. It's good poetry. I'm not a judge of poetry, obviously. So at that point, you know, Barber and Wallace, Bruce and Wallis are linked together, but they're understood as part of the kind of narrative of Scotland's past by the late 15th century and 16th century.

[Steve Boardman]

Rhiannon, what would propel people to read this today?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

It's surprisingly exciting to read when you settle down to read it. One of the surprising things about Barbara's Bruce, given that this is an enormous work and it's obviously a very sophisticated construction, and yet when you look at the actual language, it's quite simple. It's easier to read than other Alder Scots from the period, put it that way. It's got a much narrower vocabulary. He's actually writing in quite plain language. You've got about 11 different words for hitting somebody and, you know, once you've learned the ones that you didn't recognise, and a couple of words for being in a hurry. So it's clearly written to appeal to an audience who maybe didn't have an enormous vocabulary themselves.

[Steve Boardman]

Do you think it still has an appeal to a wider audience?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

I think it does because he's so good at telling, particularly, I think, in the early phases, the outlaw tales, they are fun to read. And Bruce has so many fantastic moments of just hold my beer, I'm just going to go and destroy these men and come back. And it is. It is so sparsely and quickly told that it's very engaging.

[Steve Boardman]

Well, thank you very much for that. Thank you, Rhiannon. Rhiannon Purdy, Steve Boardman and Michael Brown. Next week, it's Dragons. Thanks for listening.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

And the In Our Time podcast gets some extra time now with a few minutes of bonus material from Melvin and his guests. I wish I was here for Dragons.

[Steve Boardman]

Thanks a lot.

[Michael Brown]

No dragons in the bruises.

[Steve Boardman]

Well, now what we're going to ask you to do is, no matter what, we start with you, Rihanna. What did you not get time to say you'd like to have said?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

I think I might have talked more about how the first audience would have encountered this poem. So some will have read, it will have existed in manuscript, otherwise we wouldn't have it. But the majority of people encountering this would have encountered it as a performance and obviously not the whole thing, not 13,600 lines over the course of three days where nobody sleeps. It would probably they would be selecting bits to read out, you know, something that a performance, perhaps, you know, after a feast, you might get a couple of hundred lines or you might have a family. Thinking of that later context for the manuscripts, you might have a family that has a manuscript and one person would read out sections, or perhaps they'd pass it round. Depends how many people are good at reading aloud. And that makes a difference when you hear it read aloud, when you can do voices for the characters, when you can slow down, when you can make it exciting. And I think that's something you don't get, especially when you're looking at it in a modern printed edition.

[Michael Brown]

Michael I mean, I think the individual from the poem that we haven't mentioned at all is Robert's brother, Edward Bruce, who is built up in many ways, as if you like the counterpoint to Robert. So he's a great leader, a great knight, but a foolish commander, foolish king and his exploit, both in Scotland and then later in the poem, in Ireland, which form quite a significant part of the latter. Sections of the Bruce show him as a man who's too rash to actually be a king. And that's completely coloured our view of Edward Bruce. But it's in the poem just to show up what a good leader Robert is. He doesn't make these mistakes. And when he goes to Ireland, he kind of shows to Edward what the difference between the two of them.

[Steve Boardman]

And what is it?

[Michael Brown]

It's recognizing the need for caution. It's recognizing those military tricks that we were talking about that Steve identifies as kind of stratagems and practical advice. Edward Bruce just charges in and finally, it's fatal for him. Robert is sending him support, but Edward insists on attacking a much larger English army, and for once a smaller army is crushed by a larger English army and Edward is killed along with all the knights who've gone with him. So it's a disaster made by a king who doesn't have that mix of boldness, but also caution that Baba wants to get across as the ideal form of leadership for the Scots.

[Melvin Bragg]

Yeah, I think I pick up a point that Rhiannon alluded to, the way in which there seems suddenly to be a significant audience in late 14th century Scotland for historical and literary works in older Scots Inglis. Essentially, this is going from almost nothing to suddenly barbers Bruce appearing There's an anonymous chronicle that seems to be produced by about 1390, also in older Scots, and directed to the same type of interest. It's interested in warfare. It's interested in chivalric renown. It's interested in recording and commemorating the names of those who have played an activ in the warfare of the 14th century. And that rolls through into the work of Andrew of Winton in the early 15th century, again, writing in Scots, a massive history going back to the origins of the world and chasing it through. So in some ways, Barber is important almost as the first signifier of this new audience for chivalric material, War. Warlike material in Scots.

[Steve Boardman]

This is risking something. But is it. Is it too much of a leap to go to Walter Scott in the sense of, did Walter Scott. Is Walter Scott in that. In the tradition? Did you take anything from it? If he didn't, we can move on as quickly as possible.

[Michael Brown]

Scott's Border Ballads are very much in the tradition of these kind of episodes. And I think there is a continuation, particularly in the Borders, in between the narratives of the type that Barber and other similar sources in the late medieval period, directly into those border stories of people, again, transgressing, breaking the law, but in some ways being praised for that.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Yeah, I mean, Scott has exactly that interest in bringing history to life. I think the difference is that. That Scott doesn't have that immediate political impetus of, I need to get these. I need to get the younger generation of Scots ready to defend their country and not, you know, not risk giving in to the English. So Scots no longer worried about that. So it's a literary interest.

[Melvin Bragg]

Yeah, they're tales for entertainment. It's tales of the grandfather, which is actually where the tale of the spider first appears.

[Steve Boardman]

I always like that bit. The spider's trying to get from one rock to another and fails and fails, but he tries and tries and tries again. And Robert the Bruce thinks, I'll do that. Yeah.

[Melvin Bragg]

And that's a set of tales designed, as the name suggests, for Scott's young grandson and meant as an inspiration drawn from these historical episodes. What lessons can you learn as a young man destined for service in the British Empire?

[Steve Boardman]

Okay, well, thank you very much indeed. That was very lively. And. And Simon's coming in to say something or other.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Do it all again.

[Melvin Bragg]

I would embrace that opportunity. That first five minutes of that.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Damn. We didn't switch the recording.

[Michael Brown]

Would you like tea or coffee?

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Oh, I'd love a tea.

[Melvin Bragg]

Nothing for me.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Three teas.

[Melvin Bragg]

Water.

[Steve Boardman]

Do you want?

[Melvin Bragg]

No, no, I'm Fine answered.

[Michael Brown]

Thank you very much.

[Melvin Bragg]

In our Time with Melvin Bragg is produced by Simon Tillotson and it's a BBC Studios audio production. We pulled into what felt like an old compound. You think, wow, this is a very old property.

[Michael Brown]

I'm Danny Robbins and Uncanny is back. We have three brand new summer special episodes and things are about to get scary.

[Melvin Bragg]

I could feel something moving up the.

[Michael Brown]

Side of the bed and I can't.

[Melvin Bragg]

Quite believe what I'm seeing.

[Michael Brown]

A trip to a tiny medieval town in central Spain turns into a holiday from hell.

[Melvin Bragg]

I could make out its long matted fur and I am absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified.

[Steve Boardman]

This was just pure terror.

[Michael Brown]

And we'll investigate more spine chilling cases in an episode recorded live at the head. Uncanny. Hey, audience, who is feeling team Believer and who is team Skeptic? Listen now on BBC Sounds.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

The laws were changing in our country. Women could no longer be discriminated against. It was the dawn of a new era of space flight. NASA started accepting that applications from women to be astronauts. That door that had been barred shut for all these years before now actually was open to you. 13 minutes presents the space Shuttle. The inside story of the space shuttle.

[Melvin Bragg]

Program told by the men and women.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Who made it happen.

[Michael Brown]

That was pretty monumental as far as the public was concerned.

[Melvin Bragg]

The first woman astronaut from the United States.

[Michael Brown]

You believe in yourself and you think.

[Melvin Bragg]

You can do it.

[Rhiannon Purdey]

Listen now. Now search for 13 minutes presents the Space Shuttle. Wherever you get your BBC podcasts and liftoff. Lift off of SBS 7 and America's first woman astronaut.