In Our Time: "Civility: Talking with Those Who Disagree with You"
Podcast Information:
- Title: In Our Time
- Host/Author: BBC Radio 4
- Episode: Civility: Talking with Those Who Disagree with You
- Release Date: July 31, 2025
Summary:
Civility is both a virtue and a complex societal construct that has evolved significantly over centuries. In this episode of In Our Time, host Melvyn Bragg engages with experts—John Gallagher, Phil Withington, and Theresa Bijan—to dissect the multifaceted nature of civility, its historical roots, and its implications in contemporary society.
1. Defining Civility: Beyond Politeness
Theresa Bijan opens the discussion by highlighting the intricacies of defining civility. She distinguishes civility from mere politeness or courtesy, emphasizing its role in facilitating meaningful disagreements on fundamental societal issues.
"Civility... is a particular social or conversational virtue, pertinent in the practice of disagreement... it's the minimum degree of courtesy required in social situations."
— Theresa Bijan [02:01]
She further traces the etymology of civility to the Latin term civilitas, linking it to the behavior expected of virtuous citizens within a civil society.
2. Historical Perspectives: Erasmus vs. Luther
John Gallagher delves into the 16th-century debates between Erasmus of Rotterdam and Martin Luther, illustrating contrasting viewpoints on civility during the Reformation.
"Erasmus... attempts to teach the rudiments of good behavior... tied to living in a strictly hierarchized society."
— John Gallagher [05:37]
In contrast, Luther rejects these notions, using insults as a rhetorical tool against his opponents, thereby challenging the very fabric of civil discourse.
"Luther... is very interested in insult... using filth to attack the devil and the pope."
— John Gallagher [07:06]
3. The Civilizing Process: Hobbes and the English Civil War
Theresa Bijan connects the historical discourse on civility to Thomas Hobbes' political philosophy, particularly in the context of the English Civil War. Hobbes posits that incivility, especially insults, undermines peace and societal bonds.
"Hobbes posits... that no man shall revile or deride another... to maintain peace."
— Theresa Bijan [14:17]
He introduces the concept of animus civilis (civil spirit) as a commitment to conform to societal norms for the sake of peace.
4. The Courtier and the Expansion into Social Conduct
Roger Williams discusses the impact of Castiglione's Book of the Courtier, which shifted civility from a political to a broader social realm. Written in vernacular Italian, it democratized the concept of civility, making it accessible beyond the elite.
"Castiglione's book... shifts civility from the political to the social... foundation of conduct book literature."
— Roger Williams [08:56]
5. Paradox of Civility and Tolerance
The conversation navigates the inherent paradox where civility is essential for tolerance, yet the enforcement of civility can lead to intolerance of dissenting behaviors or beliefs.
"Civility being essential for tolerance... but also a tool of intolerance."
— Theresa Bijan [38:40]
Roger Williams illustrates this through the justification of the slave economies, where civil discourse was manipulated to legitimize inhumane practices.
"Civil conversation applied to the slave trade... justifying the brutality."
— Roger Williams [34:00]
6. Civility and Civilization: Colonial Implications
John Locke examines how civility was used as a tool for colonial domination, characterizing indigenous populations as uncivil and barbaric to justify their subjugation.
"The Irish... characterized as barbarous and rude... civility to civilization."
— John Locke [32:49]
Theresa Bijan expands on this, discussing how such narratives perpetuated exclusion and justified oppressive actions.
"Civility talk always raises the specter of needing to suppress the uncivil other."
— Theresa Bijan [33:58]
7. Modern Implications: Rawls and Contemporary Philosophy
Theresa Bijan brings the discussion to modern times by referencing John Rawls and his concept of the "duty of civility." Rawls emphasizes conducting disagreements based on shared liberal principles without invoking partisan or religious biases.
"Rawls talks about the duty of civility... conducting disagreements based on secular liberal principles."
— Theresa Bijan [36:48]
Roger Williams adds that contemporary society faces similar challenges, especially with the rise of social media and polarized political landscapes, necessitating a revival of civil discourse.
"Civility is needed to reform and improve the way we talk about issues."
— Roger Williams [37:57]
8. Preserving Civility Today: Challenges and Recommendations
John Locke suggests reintegrating the concept of shame into civil discourse to discourage dishonesty and slander.
"Bring back shame... shame to lie in public, to slander opponents."
— John Locke [39:09]
Theresa Bijan advocates for maintaining minimal civility as a foundation for peaceful coexistence, even amidst deep-seated disagreements.
"Minimal civility... allows coexistence while maintaining differing beliefs."
— Theresa Bijan [41:07]
John Locke concludes by reflecting on Michel de Montaigne's critique of where true barbarity lies, prompting society to introspect its own behaviors.
"Discourse can be used to turn the mirror on European society."
— John Locke [42:32]
Conclusion: The episode underscores that civility is not merely about polite behavior but is deeply intertwined with power structures, societal norms, and the capacity to engage in meaningful discourse despite profound disagreements. The historical evolution of civility reveals its dual role as both a facilitator of peaceful coexistence and a tool for exclusion and domination. In today's polarized world, reclaiming the essence of civility—rooted in honesty, minimal courtesy, and mutual respect—is essential for sustaining democratic societies.