In Our Time – Vincent Van Gogh (Archive Episode)

BBC Radio 4 | Host: Melvyn Bragg | Guests: Christopher Riopel, Martin Baillie, Francis Fowle
Date: September 4, 2025

Overview

In this richly detailed episode, Melvyn Bragg explores the tumultuous and dazzling life of Vincent Van Gogh (1853–1890) with three leading experts: Christopher Riopel (curator, National Gallery), Martin Baillie (Van Gogh specialist and art journalist), and Francis Fowle (professor and curator). Together, they unpack Van Gogh’s early years, artistic evolution, battles with mental illness, pivotal relationships, iconic works like Sunflowers and Starry Night, and the extraordinary rise of his posthumous fame.
The discussion is deeply nuanced, addressing the myths and realities behind Van Gogh’s biography and art, while offering colorful anecdotes that bring the painter’s struggles and genius vividly to life.

Early Life and Upbringing

[02:05–04:12]

Family Background: Born to a Protestant minister in a tight-knit Dutch family. His mother, Anna, came from an upper-middle-class background and insisted on a proper upbringing.
- “He had a very happy, very secure childhood and he was living in the south of Holland with his father and mother. His father was a parson.” —Christopher Riopel [02:18]
Early Art Exposure: Introduced to drawing by his parents, with surviving drawings from age 11 showing early competence.
Education: Sent to boarding school, received some drawing instruction.

Early Career: Art Dealer and Crisis of Faith

[04:12–07:36]

Becoming an Art Dealer: At age 16, worked for his uncle at the Goupil Gallery, gaining early exposure to the Hague School and Barbizon painters.
Move to London: Worked in the London branch, developed literary interests (notably Charles Dickens), and exchanged lists of admired artists with his brother Theo.
Religious Zeal: After a depression and dismissal from art dealing, Van Gogh plunged into Evangelical Christianity, striving (and failing) as a missionary in Belgium’s coal-mining region.
- “He suddenly became a, well, I would say obsessed with religion... He wanted to become a missionary in the Belgium coal mining area of the Borinage...” —Martin Baillie [05:44]

Artistic Awakening: The Self-Taught Years

[07:36–11:44]

Transition to Art: Left missionary work in his mid-20s and taught himself to draw and paint, sometimes briefly attending art academies but mostly self-educating through manuals and relentless practice.
- “He taught himself essentially from manuals, and he would copy drawings in drawing manuals.” —Martin Baillie [08:32]
Supporting Himself: Lived in poverty, financially supported by his brother Theo—crucial for his survival and continued work.
- Notably, his key early painting, The Potato Eaters, depicted rural laborers in dark, earthy tones, reflecting Dutch artistic traditions.

Paris: Meeting the Avant-Garde

[12:20–16:48]

Arrival in Paris (1886): Theo introduces Vincent to the young Parisian avant-garde—Toulouse-Lautrec, Seurat, and others. Their intellectual and artistic sophistication impresses and embolden him.
- “Paris was a kind of revelation for him... his horizons are expanding both artistically and in terms of friendships.” —Francis Fowle [12:48–14:48]
Influence of Impressionism: Bright color and painterly techniques of Impressionists transform his palette and subject matter. He is inspired by—and tries to imitate—artists like Seurat.
Self-Belief and Independence: Van Gogh is motivated by the self-promoting spirit of the Parisian artists, who arrange their own exhibitions and careers.

The Arles Period and Relationship with Gauguin

[16:48–23:29]

Move to Arles: Seeking creative solitude, sunshine, and ease of living, he heads south. There, he paints prolifically in wild color.
- “He always thought somewhere else would be better than where he was... He headed off and he settled down and he had a good year.” —Martin Baillie [19:28]
Sunflowers: Paints multiple versions to decorate Gauguin’s room; sunflowers become a highly personal motif.
- “Sunflowers are exuberant flowers. August is the time to pick them and to paint them.” —Martin Baillie [20:26]
Arrival of Gauguin: Initially collaborative, but intense artistic and personal differences lead to friction.
The Ear Incident: Their relationship collapses, culminating in Van Gogh’s infamous self-mutilation after a quarrel with Gauguin.
- “He goes home... [and] chops away at the lobe of his ear … It must have looked quite horrific.” —Francis Fowle [24:27]

Illness, Asylum, and the Starry Night

[25:19–32:33]

Admission to Asylum: Suffering from mental crises, Van Gogh checks himself into Saint-Rémy asylum, where painting becomes his therapy.
- “In a way, art was the escape which saved him.” —Martin Baillie [26:35]
Life inside the Asylum: His companions are severely unwell, adding to Van Gogh’s distress, yet he continues to create.
Starry Night: Painted from his asylum window—a fusion of observation, memory, and imagination.
- “It’s actually the view from the window of his room upstairs... But memory, the whole painting, that what comes at you is the swirl.” —Christopher Riopel, Melvyn Bragg [28:44–29:59]
- “For Vincent, the stars had a real significance... he writes in one of his letters that the stars remind him of death.” —Martin Baillie [30:50]

Myth vs. Reality: Madness and Artistic Genius

[32:33–34:39]

The Myth of the Mad Genius: Panel agrees Van Gogh’s best art emerged in clarity, not madness; method and persistent hard work were crucial.
- “Great art comes out of lucidity... Torment alone cannot possibly explain the whole thing.” —Francis Fowle [33:05]
- “When he was actually tormented, he probably painted much less or didn’t paint. So it is not the art of a madman.” —Martin Baillie [34:02]

Final Chapter: Auvers-sur-Oise

[35:20–37:37]

New Hope and Productivity: Moves near Paris, under the care of Dr. Paul Gachet, producing 74 paintings in 70 days, especially large, intense landscapes (Wheatfield with Crows, Tree Roots).
- “He did 74 paintings in 70 days... It also must have been exhilarating for him.” —Martin Baillie [36:32]
Themes of Family and Children: More hopeful subjects appear but depression quickly returns.
Self-Portraits: Serve as both technical experiments and personal revelations, especially after his relapse.
- “The self portraits... were done primarily for experiments... After he left Paris and went to Provence... the self portraits become more interesting because I think he reveals more of himself and his character in them.” —Martin Baillie [38:15–39:50]

Suicide and Aftermath

[42:42–44:16]

Van Gogh’s Death: Shot himself in a wheat field, dying two days later in the presence of Theo.
- “He went out into the wheat fields and shot himself with a revolver, shot himself in the chest, but didn’t die immediately... died in Theo’s arms.” —Christopher Riopel [42:47–43:33]
Legacy Stewardship: Theo’s widow, Jo van Gogh-Bonger, preserves and publicizes his work, shaping his legacy.
- “She who brilliantly engineered the rise of, of the fame of this almost unknown artist.” —Francis Fowle [44:16]

Posthumous Fame, Mythology, and Commercialization

[45:24–48:49]

Early Forgeries: The market for Van Gogh explodes rapidly in Europe, particularly Germany, leading to notable forgery scandals, such as the Otto Wacker case in Berlin.
Market Ascendancy: His work becomes among the most valuable on earth, particularly in the late 20th century with expanding international interest.

Enduring Influence and Global Recognition

[49:17–51:40]

Universal Appeal: The panel unanimously agrees that Van Gogh's legacy combines a compelling, mythic biography with instantly recognizable, emotionally powerful art.
- “His work is universally recognized. Everyone recognizes the Sunflower pictures. And I think people are equally interested in his art and his life... make him a megastar.” —Martin Baillie [49:31]
Comparison to Greats: Likened to Michelangelo or Raphael in enduring influence.

Bonus Insights and Debunking Myths

[52:01–56:14]

Shifting Colors: The colors in Van Gogh’s paintings have altered over time due to unstable pigments.
- “Very often we’re not seeing it as it was... particularly obvious in Van Gogh’s work because he used these problematic pigments.” —Christopher Riopel [52:04]
International Fame: Van Gogh’s fame marked the decline of Paris as the only center of art, democratizing modern art’s reach.
Pervasive Myths: The panel debunks myths: Van Gogh was not uneducated (he spoke four languages), nor a mere outsider or a frenzied painter—he was methodical and well-connected.
- “He spoke four languages... he knew many of the Impressionists... painted very carefully.” —Martin Baillie [53:44]
Ongoing Scholarship: New Van Gogh exhibitions and research continue globally, such as the upcoming major National Gallery show.

Notable Quotes

“This man will either go mad or leave us way behind.” —Pissarro [23:18, paraphrased]
“Great art comes out of lucidity... Torment alone cannot possibly explain the whole thing.” — Francis Fowle [33:05]
“He is one of the ones who will last on the level of Michelangelo or Raphael.” — Francis Fowle [51:10]
“The correspondence is a lot to do with it because we've got such, you know, direct access to his inner thoughts and the kind of whole creative process. And there's not really any other artist that you can say that about.” —Christopher Riopel [50:34]

Key Timestamps

[02:05] – Early Life and Family
[05:44] – Obsession with Religion/Missionary Work
[07:36] – Launch Into Art
[09:15] – Learning to Paint, Financial Support
[10:34] – The Potato Eaters and Early Style
[12:48] – Paris and Artistic Transformation
[14:50] – Parisian Art Scene
[16:48] – Gauguin’s Influence
[19:28] – Move to Arles, Sunflowers
[23:52] – Break with Gauguin & The Ear Incident
[25:19] – Life in the Asylum
[28:44] – Starry Night
[32:33] – The Myth of Genius and Torment
[35:20] – Auvers: Extraordinary Final Output
[38:15] – The Self-Portraits
[42:42] – Van Gogh’s Death
[44:16] – Theo’s Widow and Legacy
[45:24] – Early Forgeries and Market
[49:31] – Van Gogh’s Enduring Influence
[52:04] – Bonus: Fading Colors, Myths
[53:44] – Myths About Van Gogh
[55:45] – National Gallery Van Gogh Exhibition Announcement

Conclusion

This episode offers an evocative journey—from Van Gogh’s childhood and spiritual searching, through creative triumphs and torments, to his far-reaching cultural impact. It balances empathy with critical insight, dispelling myths and illuminating the unique combination of vision, discipline, and biography that make Van Gogh "possibly the most popular artist in the world." Anyone seeking a profound introduction to the artist’s life and art will find this discussion at once informative, moving, and inspiring.

In Our Time – Vincent Van Gogh (Archive Episode)

BBC Radio 4 | Host: Melvyn Bragg | Guests: Christopher Riopel, Martin Baillie, Francis Fowle
Date: September 4, 2025

Overview

Early Life and Upbringing

[02:05–04:12]

Family Background: Born to a Protestant minister in a tight-knit Dutch family. His mother, Anna, came from an upper-middle-class background and insisted on a proper upbringing.
- “He had a very happy, very secure childhood and he was living in the south of Holland with his father and mother. His father was a parson.” —Christopher Riopel [02:18]
Early Art Exposure: Introduced to drawing by his parents, with surviving drawings from age 11 showing early competence.
Education: Sent to boarding school, received some drawing instruction.

Early Career: Art Dealer and Crisis of Faith

[04:12–07:36]

Becoming an Art Dealer: At age 16, worked for his uncle at the Goupil Gallery, gaining early exposure to the Hague School and Barbizon painters.
Move to London: Worked in the London branch, developed literary interests (notably Charles Dickens), and exchanged lists of admired artists with his brother Theo.
Religious Zeal: After a depression and dismissal from art dealing, Van Gogh plunged into Evangelical Christianity, striving (and failing) as a missionary in Belgium’s coal-mining region.
- “He suddenly became a, well, I would say obsessed with religion... He wanted to become a missionary in the Belgium coal mining area of the Borinage...” —Martin Baillie [05:44]

Artistic Awakening: The Self-Taught Years

[07:36–11:44]

Transition to Art: Left missionary work in his mid-20s and taught himself to draw and paint, sometimes briefly attending art academies but mostly self-educating through manuals and relentless practice.
- “He taught himself essentially from manuals, and he would copy drawings in drawing manuals.” —Martin Baillie [08:32]
Supporting Himself: Lived in poverty, financially supported by his brother Theo—crucial for his survival and continued work.
- Notably, his key early painting, The Potato Eaters, depicted rural laborers in dark, earthy tones, reflecting Dutch artistic traditions.

Paris: Meeting the Avant-Garde

[12:20–16:48]

Arrival in Paris (1886): Theo introduces Vincent to the young Parisian avant-garde—Toulouse-Lautrec, Seurat, and others. Their intellectual and artistic sophistication impresses and embolden him.
- “Paris was a kind of revelation for him... his horizons are expanding both artistically and in terms of friendships.” —Francis Fowle [12:48–14:48]
Influence of Impressionism: Bright color and painterly techniques of Impressionists transform his palette and subject matter. He is inspired by—and tries to imitate—artists like Seurat.
Self-Belief and Independence: Van Gogh is motivated by the self-promoting spirit of the Parisian artists, who arrange their own exhibitions and careers.

The Arles Period and Relationship with Gauguin

[16:48–23:29]

Move to Arles: Seeking creative solitude, sunshine, and ease of living, he heads south. There, he paints prolifically in wild color.
- “He always thought somewhere else would be better than where he was... He headed off and he settled down and he had a good year.” —Martin Baillie [19:28]
Sunflowers: Paints multiple versions to decorate Gauguin’s room; sunflowers become a highly personal motif.
- “Sunflowers are exuberant flowers. August is the time to pick them and to paint them.” —Martin Baillie [20:26]
Arrival of Gauguin: Initially collaborative, but intense artistic and personal differences lead to friction.
The Ear Incident: Their relationship collapses, culminating in Van Gogh’s infamous self-mutilation after a quarrel with Gauguin.
- “He goes home... [and] chops away at the lobe of his ear … It must have looked quite horrific.” —Francis Fowle [24:27]

Illness, Asylum, and the Starry Night

[25:19–32:33]

Admission to Asylum: Suffering from mental crises, Van Gogh checks himself into Saint-Rémy asylum, where painting becomes his therapy.
- “In a way, art was the escape which saved him.” —Martin Baillie [26:35]
Life inside the Asylum: His companions are severely unwell, adding to Van Gogh’s distress, yet he continues to create.
Starry Night: Painted from his asylum window—a fusion of observation, memory, and imagination.
- “It’s actually the view from the window of his room upstairs... But memory, the whole painting, that what comes at you is the swirl.” —Christopher Riopel, Melvyn Bragg [28:44–29:59]
- “For Vincent, the stars had a real significance... he writes in one of his letters that the stars remind him of death.” —Martin Baillie [30:50]

Myth vs. Reality: Madness and Artistic Genius

[32:33–34:39]

The Myth of the Mad Genius: Panel agrees Van Gogh’s best art emerged in clarity, not madness; method and persistent hard work were crucial.
- “Great art comes out of lucidity... Torment alone cannot possibly explain the whole thing.” —Francis Fowle [33:05]
- “When he was actually tormented, he probably painted much less or didn’t paint. So it is not the art of a madman.” —Martin Baillie [34:02]

Final Chapter: Auvers-sur-Oise

[35:20–37:37]

New Hope and Productivity: Moves near Paris, under the care of Dr. Paul Gachet, producing 74 paintings in 70 days, especially large, intense landscapes (Wheatfield with Crows, Tree Roots).
- “He did 74 paintings in 70 days... It also must have been exhilarating for him.” —Martin Baillie [36:32]
Themes of Family and Children: More hopeful subjects appear but depression quickly returns.
Self-Portraits: Serve as both technical experiments and personal revelations, especially after his relapse.
- “The self portraits... were done primarily for experiments... After he left Paris and went to Provence... the self portraits become more interesting because I think he reveals more of himself and his character in them.” —Martin Baillie [38:15–39:50]

Suicide and Aftermath

[42:42–44:16]

Van Gogh’s Death: Shot himself in a wheat field, dying two days later in the presence of Theo.
- “He went out into the wheat fields and shot himself with a revolver, shot himself in the chest, but didn’t die immediately... died in Theo’s arms.” —Christopher Riopel [42:47–43:33]
Legacy Stewardship: Theo’s widow, Jo van Gogh-Bonger, preserves and publicizes his work, shaping his legacy.
- “She who brilliantly engineered the rise of, of the fame of this almost unknown artist.” —Francis Fowle [44:16]

Posthumous Fame, Mythology, and Commercialization

[45:24–48:49]

Early Forgeries: The market for Van Gogh explodes rapidly in Europe, particularly Germany, leading to notable forgery scandals, such as the Otto Wacker case in Berlin.
Market Ascendancy: His work becomes among the most valuable on earth, particularly in the late 20th century with expanding international interest.

Enduring Influence and Global Recognition

[49:17–51:40]

Universal Appeal: The panel unanimously agrees that Van Gogh's legacy combines a compelling, mythic biography with instantly recognizable, emotionally powerful art.
- “His work is universally recognized. Everyone recognizes the Sunflower pictures. And I think people are equally interested in his art and his life... make him a megastar.” —Martin Baillie [49:31]
Comparison to Greats: Likened to Michelangelo or Raphael in enduring influence.

Bonus Insights and Debunking Myths

[52:01–56:14]

Shifting Colors: The colors in Van Gogh’s paintings have altered over time due to unstable pigments.
- “Very often we’re not seeing it as it was... particularly obvious in Van Gogh’s work because he used these problematic pigments.” —Christopher Riopel [52:04]
International Fame: Van Gogh’s fame marked the decline of Paris as the only center of art, democratizing modern art’s reach.
Pervasive Myths: The panel debunks myths: Van Gogh was not uneducated (he spoke four languages), nor a mere outsider or a frenzied painter—he was methodical and well-connected.
- “He spoke four languages... he knew many of the Impressionists... painted very carefully.” —Martin Baillie [53:44]
Ongoing Scholarship: New Van Gogh exhibitions and research continue globally, such as the upcoming major National Gallery show.

Notable Quotes

“This man will either go mad or leave us way behind.” —Pissarro [23:18, paraphrased]
“Great art comes out of lucidity... Torment alone cannot possibly explain the whole thing.” — Francis Fowle [33:05]
“He is one of the ones who will last on the level of Michelangelo or Raphael.” — Francis Fowle [51:10]
“The correspondence is a lot to do with it because we've got such, you know, direct access to his inner thoughts and the kind of whole creative process. And there's not really any other artist that you can say that about.” —Christopher Riopel [50:34]

Key Timestamps

[02:05] – Early Life and Family
[05:44] – Obsession with Religion/Missionary Work
[07:36] – Launch Into Art
[09:15] – Learning to Paint, Financial Support
[10:34] – The Potato Eaters and Early Style
[12:48] – Paris and Artistic Transformation
[14:50] – Parisian Art Scene
[16:48] – Gauguin’s Influence
[19:28] – Move to Arles, Sunflowers
[23:52] – Break with Gauguin & The Ear Incident
[25:19] – Life in the Asylum
[28:44] – Starry Night
[32:33] – The Myth of Genius and Torment
[35:20] – Auvers: Extraordinary Final Output
[38:15] – The Self-Portraits
[42:42] – Van Gogh’s Death
[44:16] – Theo’s Widow and Legacy
[45:24] – Early Forgeries and Market
[49:31] – Van Gogh’s Enduring Influence
[52:04] – Bonus: Fading Colors, Myths
[53:44] – Myths About Van Gogh
[55:45] – National Gallery Van Gogh Exhibition Announcement

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Vincent Van Gogh (Archive Episode)

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Summary

In Our Time – Vincent Van Gogh (Archive Episode)

Overview

Early Life and Upbringing

Early Career: Art Dealer and Crisis of Faith

Artistic Awakening: The Self-Taught Years

Paris: Meeting the Avant-Garde

The Arles Period and Relationship with Gauguin

Illness, Asylum, and the Starry Night

Myth vs. Reality: Madness and Artistic Genius

Final Chapter: Auvers-sur-Oise

Suicide and Aftermath

Posthumous Fame, Mythology, and Commercialization

Enduring Influence and Global Recognition

Bonus Insights and Debunking Myths

Notable Quotes

Key Timestamps

Conclusion

Summary

In Our Time – Vincent Van Gogh (Archive Episode)

Overview

Early Life and Upbringing

Early Career: Art Dealer and Crisis of Faith

Artistic Awakening: The Self-Taught Years

Paris: Meeting the Avant-Garde

The Arles Period and Relationship with Gauguin

Illness, Asylum, and the Starry Night

Myth vs. Reality: Madness and Artistic Genius

Final Chapter: Auvers-sur-Oise

Suicide and Aftermath

Posthumous Fame, Mythology, and Commercialization

Enduring Influence and Global Recognition

Bonus Insights and Debunking Myths

Notable Quotes

Key Timestamps

Conclusion