Podcast Summary: In Our Time: Religion – Episode on Pope Joan
BBC Radio 4, Released February 27, 2025

Introduction to the Legend of Pope Joan

In this insightful episode of BBC Radio 4's In Our Time: Religion, host Melvin Bragg delves into the enigmatic legend of Pope Joan—a tale of a woman who purportedly ascended to the papacy in the 9th century while disguised as a man. This legend has served as both a cautionary narrative and a subject of fascination throughout the centuries, reflecting the complex interplay between truth and fiction in historical chronicles.

Origins and Early Accounts

The discussion begins with Catherine Lewis, Honorary Professor of Medieval History, outlining the basic narrative of Pope Joan. According to the legend, Joan was born in Mainz to English parents and disguised herself as a man to pursue an academic education and a clerical career, ultimately becoming Pope John Anglicus. Her papacy lasted for two years, ending dramatically when her true gender was revealed during childbirth in a public procession.

Catherine emphasizes the scarcity of concrete evidence about Joan, noting, "We don’t know anything really about her parents" ([03:06]). The first written accounts emerged in the mid-13th century, centuries after the supposed events, primarily through the works of Jean de Mailly and Stephen of Bourbon. These accounts were often prefaced with disclaimers about their veracity, indicating a blend of rumor and tradition.

Evolution of the Story Through the Centuries

Anthony Bale, Professor of Medieval and Renaissance English, highlights the rapid spread of the Pope Joan narrative in the 13th century, particularly among Dominican preachers who utilized the story as a moral exemplar. The legend evolved with each retelling, with Martin of Poland's chronicle in the 1270s becoming the most influential version, solidifying the story's prominence across Europe.

Laura Callis, Senior Lecturer in Medieval English Literature, points out the variations in the story's transmission. Early accounts did not always name Joan explicitly, but later versions introduced the element of diabolical influence, as seen in Stephen of Bourbon's addition of the devil's assistance in her ascendancy to the papacy ([10:28]).

Impact on Church Doctrine and the Reformation

The legend of Pope Joan gained significant traction during the Reformation when Protestant reformers used it to criticize the Catholic Church. Catherine Lewis explains, "The Protestants are saying absolutely that Joan existed... and they are basically saying that this invalidates the papacy" ([27:21]). This appropriation forced the Catholic Church to confront the legend more rigorously, leading to the emergence of humanist historians who sought to debunk the tale.

Melvin Bragg adds, "The story is used to question the very basis of papal authority," reflecting how the legend became a tool in doctrinal disputes between Catholics and Protestants ([34:45]).

Modern Interpretations and Cultural Depictions

In contemporary times, Pope Joan has been reimagined in various cultural mediums, from novels and plays to films. Laura Callis mentions Carol Churchill's play Top Girls, where Joan is portrayed as a symbol of women's struggle in a patriarchal society, and Joanna Cross's novel, which inspired two film adaptations—one in 1972 and another in 2009—that present a more sympathetic view of Joan ([38:18]).

Catherine Lewis notes the enduring fascination with Joan, stating, "Her tale is, has resonance currently still," highlighting how modern narratives often reinterpret her story to align with feminist ideals and critiques of historical misogyny ([38:18]).

Conclusion: The Enduring Legacy of Pope Joan

The episode concludes with reflections on what the Pope Joan legend reveals about medieval society and its enduring legacy. Anthony Bale summarizes, "It tells us a lot about the construction of the exclusion of women from men's society," emphasizing the story's role in illustrating historical gender dynamics ([40:20]).

Catherine Lewis adds a contemporary perspective, noting, "Suspicion and hostility aimed at the institution of the Church... gives it another kind of veracity for some people," suggesting that the legend continues to resonate as a symbol of institutional critique ([43:47]).

Notable Quotes

• Catherine Lewis ([03:06]): "We don’t know anything really about her parents."

• Catherine Lewis ([05:20]): "Her impersonation was very convincing because it's only at the point where she gives birth that people realize that, in fact, she was a woman all along."

• Melvin Bragg ([24:41]): "This is a medieval historical writing... it's supposed to be morally true."

• Anthony Bale ([34:45]): "The story is used to question the very basis of papal authority."

• Laura Callis ([38:18]): "Her tale is, has resonance currently still."

Final Thoughts

The legend of Pope Joan serves as a lens through which to examine the medieval perceptions of gender, authority, and truth. While historical evidence for Joan's existence remains dubious, the story's persistence underscores its profound impact on cultural and religious discourse. This episode of In Our Time: Religion effectively unpacks the layers of myth and meaning embedded in the Pope Joan narrative, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of its historical significance and lasting legacy.