Podcast Summary: In The Dark – Bonus: Your Season 3 Questions, Answered

Release Date: November 12, 2024

Host: Madeleine Baran (Madelyn)
Managing Producer: Samara Freemark
Contributors: Natalie Jablonski, Parker Yesko, Raymond Tangakar

Introduction

In this special bonus episode of In The Dark, host Madeleine Baran and managing producer Samara Freemark address listeners' questions regarding Season 3 of the acclaimed investigative journalism podcast. The episode delves into the intricacies of reporting on military matters, ethical storytelling, the challenges of uncovering war crimes, and the sensitive handling of traumatic interviews.

Reporting on the Military: Challenges and Approaches

Listeners were particularly curious about the team’s experience in reporting on the military, an environment often perceived as insular and resistant to external scrutiny.

Madelyn opens the discussion with a question from listener Stacy about the difficulties of reporting within the military's complex and barrier-laden culture.

Samara Freemark [01:22]: "The military is complicated... We have to do a lot of work to make some sense of it. There's a ton of acronyms, cultural nuances, structural complexities... It took four years to feel confident that we understood as best as we could as outsiders."

Despite initial skepticism from other journalists about gaining access, the team successfully engaged with numerous veterans. This success was largely attributed to their traditional on-the-ground approach of door knocking.

Natalie Jablonski [04:09]: "We've knocked on doors in dozens of states, traversed back roads... it's a very old-school approach that remains effective."

Door Knocking: An Old-School Technique That Works

The podcast team elaborates on their door-knocking strategy, emphasizing its effectiveness in fostering genuine connections.

Parker Yesko [05:21]: "It's way more effective to show up at someone's door... People are shockingly willing to have you hang around and hear their stories."

Natalie adds that despite occasional challenges, such as a flat tire in the desert and near lightning strikes, the rewards of personal interaction outweighed the discomforts.

Natalie Jablonski [08:12]: "It's really gratifying how many people are actually welcoming and game to talk to you."

Handling Intense and Traumatic Interviews

A significant portion of the episode addresses the sensitive nature of interviewing individuals involved in traumatic events, particularly war crimes.

Madelyn references a poignant interview with Steven Tatum, a Marine accused of shooting women and children, highlighting listeners' discomfort with the intense questioning.

Parker Yesko [09:57]: "We knew he might not want to talk, but we needed to ask... these questions get at the core of what took place."

The team underscores their commitment to ethical journalism, ensuring they do not retraumatize interviewees while striving to uncover the truth.

Samara Freemark [12:29]: "We walked the balance between doing our work and not causing harm... ensuring interviewees felt in control."

Natalie emphasizes their respect for individuals' boundaries, particularly those suffering from PTSD.

Natalie Jablonski [13:47]: "We respect if someone is in distress or doesn't want to talk about something."

Ethical Storytelling: Najla’s Heartbreaking Testimony

Madelyn discusses a particularly emotional moment from Episode Seven, where Najla and Ehab, widows of victims, confront the dismissive attitude of an investigating officer towards their testimonies.

Madelyn [17:47]: "We wanted the listener to feel Najla's pain... letting her voice be heard was a statement that they weren't silenced."

The decision to play Najla's untranslated emotional outburst and the interpreter’s reaction aimed to authentically convey the depth of their suffering.

Madelyn [20:14]: "Najla's emotional content transcends language... it was about allowing her voice to reach the public."

Publishing Graphic Evidence: Balancing Sensitivity and Truth

Listener Jen inquired about the team’s decision to publish graphic photos taken by Marines, which serve as crucial forensic evidence.

Samara Freemark [23:23]: "We felt the photos were journalistically and historically important... only with the permission of the surviving family members."

Producer Raymond Tangakar explains the meticulous process of evaluating these images to ensure they conveyed the necessary information without being gratuitously graphic.

Raymond Tangakar [25:26]: "We wanted to present specifics without overwhelming the listener... the photos were evidence in a criminal case."

The Military Justice System: Accountability and Reform

A recurring theme in Season 3 is the examination of the U.S. military justice system's handling of war crimes. Listeners questioned the likelihood of systemic reform and enhanced accountability.

Parker Yesko [29:44]: "Recent reforms were limited, mainly addressing sex crimes and murder... broader war crimes like assaults or cruelty towards detainees remain largely unaddressed."

Samara highlights the absence of a strong constituency advocating for these reforms, noting that victims are often non-American and lack representation in American political discourse.

Parker Yesko [31:20]: "Victims are Iraqis or Afghans, not American voters... there's no significant push from their side."

The team remains hopeful that the comprehensive war crimes database they've compiled will spark necessary conversations and potential policy changes.

Samara Freemark [31:41]: "The data is out there now... it can be the beginning of a conversation about what to do next."

Final Episode: The Story of Mamdu Hamid

The culmination of Season 3 centers on Mamdu Hamid, a man who went missing on the day of the Haditha killings. His family's decades-long search for answers became a focal point of the series.

Madelyn [34:54]: "There was a moral obligation to report on Mamdu... providing answers for his family was something worth doing."

The decision to place Mamdu’s story as a standalone final episode was both a narrative and ethical choice, aiming to broaden the series' scope to encompass the immense suffering caused by war.

Madelyn [36:01]: "We wanted the listeners to think about all those people as well... Mamdu's story embodied the larger experience of living through war."

Prosecution Prospects for War Crimes

Listeners expressed concern over whether Marines involved in Mamdu's killing could still face prosecution. Parker Yesko provides clarity on the legal constraints.

Parker Yesko [40:23]: "All Marines involved are out of the Corps, outside military jurisdiction. Federal prosecution is possible but rare... no indication that the DOJ will take action now."

She further notes the political climate's impact, particularly under a Trump presidency, which has historically shown little interest in pursuing such cases.

Parker Yesko [41:53]: "With the upcoming Trump presidency, it seems even less likely that the DOJ would take action."

Conclusion and Future Engagement

Madelyn and Samara encourage listeners to engage further by providing tips and exploring additional resources available on The New Yorker's website, including interactive documentaries and the comprehensive war crimes database.

Samara Freemark [42:02]: "Send us your tips and story ideas by emailing us@inthedarker.com... we're working on new stories to bring you next."

They also promote an upcoming live event, inviting listeners to participate in discussions about critical journalism topics.

Key Takeaways

• In The Dark Season 3 delves deep into the military’s internal workings, war crimes, and the challenges of attaining accountability.
• The podcast emphasizes ethical reporting, particularly when handling traumatic and sensitive subjects.
• Traditional journalism methods like door knocking remain effective in building trust and uncovering hidden narratives.
• The military justice system's limited reforms highlight ongoing issues in prosecuting war crimes, with minimal prospects for change without significant advocacy.
• The inclusion of Mamdu Hamid’s story serves to humanize the broader impacts of war, underscoring the personal toll on families and communities.

Notable Quotes

• Samara Freemark [01:22]: "It took four years to feel confident that we understood as best as we could as outsiders."
• Parker Yesko [05:21]: "People are shockingly willing to have you hang around and hear their stories."
• Madelyn [17:47]: "We are literally allowing this woman to have a voice to the public that maybe she felt like she didn't have before."
• Raymond Tangakar [25:45]: "We wanted the photos were evidence in a criminal case."
• Parker Yesko [31:20]: "Victims are Iraqis or Afghans, not American voters."

For a comprehensive exploration of Season 3, including interactive elements and the extensive war crimes database, visit newyorker.com/season3.