← In The Mix with Marvin Joles
In The Mix with Marvin Joles
The Struggle is Real: Navigating Construction, Family, and Mental Health Ep. #29
00:55:22
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- [00:00]
Marvin Joelz
Today's episode of in the Mix is powered by Jobber.
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Podcast Announcer
Welcome to in the Mix, paving the way to insight, education and entertainment in the asphalt industry. Your host, Marvin Joelz, a best of Web pavement award winner, knows the blacktop community and what it takes to win in this industry. Each episode you'll hear real stories, expert insights and road tested strategies from the people who make up the asphalt world and beyond. Whether you're paving parking lots, ceiling driveways, striping lines, or innovating asphalt tech, this is the podcast for pros who keep the industry rolling. Now here's Marvin,
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Marvin Joelz
Everybody. Welcome back to another episode and another interview. As you know, the podcast is underway here and we're still kind of on the same topic, asking the same questions to a lot of different people in a lot of different situations. And I'm really excited about today's guest. Even before, like I made this a point to do these podcasts, some conversations about this topic, the in depth stuff that contractors deal with before, I really focused on that in a new venture. My guest today, Bryce, was like, hey, if you ever want to talk about the struggles, I'm down. And I was like, okay, that's kind of random, but not kind of random because he and I have been in the same circles and at different places and been hearing people speak about a lot of this stuff. I'm going to try to pronounce your last name Wary. Do I have that worry?
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Bryce Worre
Worry.
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Marvin Joelz
Oh, yeah. Cool. Yeah. So we have Bryce Worre, CEO of Pavewise, asphalt scientist and dad.
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Bryce Worre
Right?
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Marvin Joelz
Yeah, Father, man. So give us a little bit of an intro and then you're going to have to let me start asking some questions, man.
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Bryce Worre
I'm a proud dad. I get four kids, proud husband, entrepreneur, own a business, love construction, love the industry. I'm third generation, was born into it. And yeah, I've lived it. And you know, honestly, I've tried to get away from it a few times just because it is hard and it's demanding. And I just, if you find ways to cope with it, like there's a love hate relationship some people have with it. But like, I love this industry. The people in it are genuine. And that's, that's kind of my 10,000 foot story right there, my overview of who I am and where we're at.
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Marvin Joelz
You know, I have this inkling that like, people think that because you're third generation, you grew up in it, you, you probably got it all figured out. You, it's an easy route and then you hear like, you know, conversations Even with my friend Matt Stanley and other people who have been multi generational, they do have a great setup and everything going. There's no, like, relief of pressure. Like, it's still there and it still just gets handed off. I asked my dad sometimes, like, man, how'd you handle it? Right? You know, or how'd you do it? My dad said, well, Jim Beam was a really good friend of mine for a while, you know, and it's like, yeah, dang, like, that's the answer I'm gonna get. So, you know, I think about that in a. In a sense of, you know, one thing I was kind of talking to you before the show here was like, we're realizing after having multiples of this conversation that it doesn't really matter what your life looks like in comparison to other people's. We're all still dealing with some stuff that kind of gives us the same overall feeling, no matter where it kind of comes from. And that's kind of a new thing on Instagram. You don't see that. I don't know. Bryce, you and I are on LinkedIn quite a bit. We connect there quite a bit. I sure don't see a whole lot of what you and I talk about behind the scenes on LinkedIn. So I think that people worry about that and conversations like these ones that we're about to have help people connect and realize, hey, we're not that far off and not so, so far off from it. So, you know, I really appreciate you being here and opening up with me.
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Bryce Worre
No, I. I appreciate it. And I think talking about it is the first, you know, big step of changing this in the industry because, you know, I was never taught. I know I was raised third generation construction. Work hard, learn how to ranch, do whatever you can yourself, and. And be a good business person. My grandpa, my dad taught me everything to be successful, but there wasn't a moment where we ever talked about, like, man, I'm burnt out. What do I do big time. Like, you know, like. And that was the one thing I was never taught. I was always just taught, wake up early, work hard, support your family. Success, success, success. Right? That cycle wears on a person, and it's, you know, other people cope with it different ways. Jim Beam. I had a good. I had a good friend named Jose. I mean, so, like, it was different coping mechanisms because I was never taught how to handle those. And it's fun. I mean, it's not fun, but, like, I go to events and talk about these things, and people that know me, like, we didn't even know that you struggled during those times because, yeah, I was so good at hiding it. Like, I was smiling and just happy and just pretending the whole time.
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Marvin Joelz
Yeah, yeah. Well, we see that, right? At shows, we get a little micro shot of what this person's life looks like. You know, same thing as Instagram and whatnot. It's not really till you get to, like, know somebody. A few times like you and I have, where you're like, oh, okay. Or you hear somebody talk about it, you're like, oh, okay. And it's the same thing. Like, dude, I just know I'm supposed to be tough, you know, I'm supposed to provide. I can't let a lot of stuff bother me. I'm a man. I gotta make this stuff happen. And, you know, you can just can't get faltered by it. And it wasn't until I started, like, a couple years ago, hearing some people talk about it. But a friend of mine, Aaron Craw from U Turn Health, talked at Dirt World Summit a couple years ago, and something hit me where she was, like, describing a flight or fight or flight response.
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Bryce Worre
Yeah.
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Marvin Joelz
Then she's like, you can't do that like that. That's supposed to last five minutes. Maybe in the wild, your fight or flight response supposed to last five minutes. And I'm like, dude, I think I'm living this, like, every day. And then all of a sudden, like, I was like, oh, you know? So I started asking some different questions and whatnot. And that's really when I started to dig in. And she was like, yeah, I hear this a lot. This is what it looks like. This is what it is. And I started to realize then that I was on a track to, like, not being very mentally healthy.
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Bryce Worre
Right?
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Marvin Joelz
And we talk about lifting weights in the gym or working out or eating right? But we don't talk about healthy practices for our mind in order to stay healthy. So let's kind of go through, like, what an average day looks like for you right out of the gate. Like, you. You're in bed and you open your eyes.
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Bryce Worre
I am an early riser. I love getting up early in the morning. I'm 5am person. That's when my mind is most active. And that's where really a lot of good ideas and things get done. Because during the day, I. It's meeting after meeting. I do run a software company and I'm a paving consultant that works all across the United States. So a lot of traveling. But my day, you know, like, I wake up, I do My. My daily routine of, you know, getting a cup of coffee or tea, just start. And sometimes I do a little reading. I'm a heavy meditator. I took up meditation here six, seven years ago after I had learned.
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Marvin Joelz
Where'd you learn how to meditate?
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Bryce Worre
I read a couple books, and it. It kind of dawned on me, like, I was the type of person. I'm highly wired, without caffeine, so I was like, there's no way I'm gonna be able to sit and think about nothing for like, five to 10 minutes. Like, this is ridiculous, right? But, like, I actually had to learn how to meditate. Was. Just started with some breathing techniques because I. I do. I dislike flying. I just dislike flying. So, like, I had to find a way to calm myself. Couldn't drive everywhere. And it turned into, like, actually, this makes me feel really good. And I've adopted it into my. My daily routines. Even just what I call resets. Like, five, ten minutes of just, like, breathing and just like, all right, reset it. Because I've. I've been. Something's bothering me or something, and I never knew how to do any of that stuff. And, yeah, you know, I learned over time, like, because I was forced to. I was forced to. To bring it down a level because I was living on that vicious cycle of that fight. There's an edge there. Six Red Bulls in a day and a cup of coffee from 5am till 10. Like, I'm not kidding you. That was my life for three years. And. And it's just not sustainable. And your body can't handle it. And what happens is you just. What happened to me during that was like I was living on this. This. This high ledge and all of a sudden, edge.
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Marvin Joelz
That's why I get everybody. There's an edge where you're like, oh, I can't go that far. Oh, that far.
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Bryce Worre
And I hit the. I hit it. My body physically shut down. I mean, and mentally I hit it. And that was kind of what happened with me. But, like, I've changed that. Like, now I wake up in the morning, you meditate. And then kids. I got four kids. I make breakfast. I'm there for them when I'm here. Where before I used to be out the door and, you know, spend time with them and just kind of take the time with. With my family. I never used to do that because I thought I was. It was more important for me to. To go out and get to work earlier, provide in those cases. So. And then it's get to the office and work there's 10 people at this company and we're continually working on things.
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Marvin Joelz
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- [10:08]
Bryce Worre
limits of how we can help the industry with technologies and just we're a venture backed company which means we have investors. We're continually raising money and growing and things. So there's a lot of, a lot of that world and going to export.
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Marvin Joelz
How often do you ever feel like I got it figured out?
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Bryce Worre
Never. Never. And. And I hope you know, I don't think I ever will.
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Marvin Joelz
I yeah, you got to come to terms with that. You end up coming to terms with that and being like, hey, that's actually just like the normal that that's very true.
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Bryce Worre
Like, and these are some of the things I learned too is like I'm never going to get caught up on my checklist of things to do. Y I got to prioritize my time because there's a point in your life where you hit like, like this is real. Like my time is more valuable than any amount of money or anything physical. Like I used to try to fill the voids of the time I lost with my family with buying new cars and giving them things to replace. Thinking like that would make them happier. And it was untrue. Right. So I mean those types of things, unfortunately I just had to learn the hard way. But like when you wind down in
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Marvin Joelz
the afternoon, like what's it look like when you, when you kind of got a lot of that check and you're like, okay, now I know that we're later in the afternoon.
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Bryce Worre
Yeah, the afternoons are really where I schedule a lot of meetings and stuff because I'm, I'm kind of in that more of a wind down period and I typically don't work too late now if I do, it's on more of the minute things and I do a lot of reading. I never used to be a big reader. I absolutely love reading. I'm reading a book right now.
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Marvin Joelz
You read in the afternoon?
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Bryce Worre
Oh yeah. I'll take breaks. Yep. And I'll do it typically in the morning, afternoon, just sometimes if I just need even a reset. But, like, I'm reading a book right now called Scaling People, and it's more of a business book. But, you know, it's just mental exercises to kind of just change out of the pattern of we get stuck in these. Like, something didn't work right or this didn't make.
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Marvin Joelz
I'm reading the book on mental toughness by Andy Frisella, trying to get into that and dig that one up a little bit. I'm a big Tim Grover fan, and Tim Grover, he's going to be at their World Summit next year. So I'm super hyped about that. But I've been a longtime fan. I love both of his audiobooks. But anyways, Tim Grover writes the forward. Right. And you're like, oh, cool. I was like, so that's really what drew me in. Been down to first form a bunch. Met Sal. I really enjoy hanging out with Sal. I've been able to do that a couple times now. I'm always curious into people's minds, like, you know, like, what. What they're reading and why they're reading it. So, you know, for me to be like, hey, you grab your. I feel I'm jealous, really, because I don't stop and read, like, a page. And I wish I should. I should just keep one with me and, like, grab a page and read here and there. But I try to do it in the morning. But that's why I was asking about your meditation, too. I do mine in the morning, but, you know, I don't stop during the day, and I probably should because there's times where I'm looking at that screen. I don't know how you get. But I'm just like, pretty soon things will start doing that. I'm like, dude, I gotta get up and walk around and get some fresh air, do something.
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Bryce Worre
Yeah, for sure.
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Marvin Joelz
Yeah.
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Bryce Worre
You know, and it's hard because, like, I never used to be able to shut my phone off. I used to feel bad taking days, even if they were sick days. Like, it's. It's like a mental shift that you have to have because.
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Marvin Joelz
Do you feel like. Do you feel like you went from doing from a sprinter to more of a marathon runner?
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Bryce Worre
Like, oh, for sure.
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Marvin Joelz
Yeah, for sure.
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Bryce Worre
Yeah. And. And I'm actually more efficient in this process than I used to be because I'm not strung out and just like, on that, you know, that fight level of just, like, Trying to get a whole bunch of things done that's not done correctly and having to go reback and do them. I'm actually, like, focused and concentrated and. Yeah, for sure.
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Marvin Joelz
Is it. What about, like, when you get back home? So let's say you start heading back home. Are you able to switch it off for the most part or you still kind of hang on to it? Because I struggle. Nikki sees me, like, I'll be there, and then, like, she'll catch me a few times. Right. Kevin Gray was talking one of the earlier podcasts, and he's like, I had 10 minutes, dude. He's like, I did so good. And I grabbed my phone, like, for 10 minutes I was looking at it, and Liz. God, I hope I got her name right, you know, she was like, hey. And he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And put that thing down. I'll get sucked into that sometimes. And Nikki's like, hey, whether it's at dinner or whatever, and she'll, like, come back to me here.
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Bryce Worre
Yeah, yeah, that, that. That happens at times, especially if there's something really pushing, you know, it's second.
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Marvin Joelz
Don't you think? Like, it is. I'm not meaning to do that.
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Bryce Worre
No, not at all.
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Marvin Joelz
It's like tapping my foot or something, you know, like, oh, I didn't realize I was tapping my foot. It's the same thing with the phone. You. There's such a huge part of us now that it's like, oh, and you grab it and you see something and.
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Bryce Worre
Yeah, yeah, if I need, like, I've got. That's another piece that just comes with training. Like, I used to carry two phones with me, you know, like, and. And I'd never shut them off. I'd never let them leave my site. Like, I. Sometimes I get home and the first thing I do is go upstairs, plug my phone in and leave it and come back downstairs and. And spend time, you know, cooking and. And just, you know, we're busy. We got kids running around in gymnastics and sports and stuff. And I've really taken, you know, the steps towards being more present. Present with those things because it's valuable and I don't want to miss out on those things.
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Marvin Joelz
Well, I think we compensate, right, with, like, hey, well, I'm providing all this stuff so I don't have to be here and do this and do that or whatever. Like, I'm providing for the family. You guys understand? I need to do this and I need this level so that we have all this stuff and you're able to do all these things. And even though we do that, that's a lie. I think that we're telling ourselves, right? Because it's like, dude, they don't care about that. They don't. I mean, they care some that they have a place, a warm place or whatever, but we care more. They would care for that. Like, hey, don't maybe don't do that so much and come watch me play basketball or watch me practice wrestling or doing whatever. So once you get back in the afternoon and get in towards the evening, is that what you guys do? You do sports stuff or pick the kids up after school and then cook dinner late and then. Tell me about the wind down at the end of the day. One of the biggest challenges in concrete work is control. Control over quality, control over timing, and control over cost. Cementech designs and delivers volumetric concrete mixers that are some of the most accurate and technologically advanced in the industry. Their equipment gives contractors real control over schedule, budget and concrete quality, allowing crews to mix exactly what they need when they need it, without the waste and limitations of traditional barrel mixers. I've been in the same industry circles as cement tech for years and I've interviewed contractors who run their equipment every day. It works, it delivers. If you want to learn more or to find a dealer near you, head to Cementech.com there's not really a wind
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Bryce Worre
down, it's more of a switch because like, it goes from the wind down of like business to the all right, the, the activities of. All right, we got dance, gymnastics, we got guitar lessons. Like who's doing what? And sharing that responsibility, having a good partner. My, my wife is my business partner. We've ran three, four successful businesses together. We share that responsibility. She's the COO of this company now, pavewise. And I mean having, having that structure is really important too, to share that responsibility. But like, it's just, it's more of a shift. Like I know the point of the. I'm probably busier now than I ever have been in my life, but I know how to manage it in a way that I never used to know before. I know now when I've hit a limit of, all right, I just need to take a day and go. I love doing woodwork, going up to my light cabin and spending a day doing a wall that needs to be finished or something like that. And where before, before I would, I would push through it, push through it, push through it. And eventually, you know, that would end up causing more issues. So.
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Marvin Joelz
And not even that, like, you you get. You're spending less time sleeping, which I've come. You know, the sleep studies out are like crazy. You know, it's incremental. Like I think even they were saying, like if you don't get a full seven hours, like if you have recovery time mental or physical, like it cuts it in half. Like it takes you that long to recover from it. Well, if you're. That's one night. Yeah. Imagine if you're doing that on repeat through the years like we did and trying to compensate with Red Bull. Oh and whatnot and wind down.
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Bryce Worre
That's the vicious cycle that I think needs to be changed more than anything in this industry is like I went through it and I keep saying this vicious cycle. But like, all right, Red Bull. First thing I do when I wake up in the morning, Red Bull. I got an hour drive out to the side or a cup of coffee. Red Bull. Or with lunch or maybe miss lunch, I'm just going to replace it with a candy bar. And then, you know, like 4 or 5 o', clock. I still got a couple hours worth of work. There's light until 7:30, 8:00'.
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Podcast Announcer
Clock.
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Bryce Worre
I'm gonna get this done. I'm gonna get some more caffeine and then I get home strong like, or else, you know, and I'm like, how am I gonna get to sleep? I'll drink a six pack of beer.
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Marvin Joelz
Yeah.
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Bryce Worre
You know, like so that just happened like this continuous cycle of bad, you know, And. And that's where my body eventually just said, no, you're gon yourself. Like you're literally gonna just.
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Marvin Joelz
Mine's still doing it, dude. Like, you know the story by now. Like the summer how bad I had like blood pressure was up and stuff was going on. Like my body is still like I've been. Been able to get off the blood pressure medicine. I come. I give Nikki a lot of credit with that. She calmed me down quite a bit where it was like, you know, be able to relax a little bit more, take down time that I didn't take for myself. And she's like, no, I want to take down time. I'm like, okay. It's like. And I don't want you to think about this and I don't want you to touch your phone. And I want this to be okay. So that brought it down a little bit. But my body was, Dude, I know the date. I know the date. The exact date of when my body my. In my mind was just like, enough, enough, we can't do this anymore. And it's fighting back. So I kind of want to dip into some of the other questions. What was your biggest challenge this past year? Like, if there was one thing where you're like, this was the hardest thing and I, and it's important that we're candid of like really what that is. And what was it for you this year, Bryce?
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Bryce Worre
Giving up some responsibility of roles or just even tasks as an owner and trusting, hiring the right individuals and stuff that are going to do it, hopefully as good as you or even better. That's been a difficult thing for me this year and it takes time and training as well, finding that right person. But that's been super difficult. And then, I mean, honestly I lost my, my 14 year old golden retriever who just like when I was going through it, like I would have panic attacks laying on the floor, couldn't move. That dog would never leave me, right? He'd literally come lay on my chest. He'd follow me. He knew whenever I was like struggling and he'd just never leave my side. And you know, we just lost him a couple months ago and, and even though he's a dog, it's like he actually probably helped me through some things that more things than some humans did just by being there and just showing compassion, you know. So that's been probably one of the hardest things is losing that my dog Max, because he, he, he was a big support piece for me.
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Marvin Joelz
So how did you, how did you overcome those, those things? I mean, you know, those are two completely different aspects of struggle over this last year. But the letting go part is a hard part for a lot of people. And I'm there, right? I'll be 40 this next time my birthday rolls around in my mind I'm still the 24 year old that can just like, dude, if you're not on the part, if you're not killing on the parking lot, get out of here and give me the hose and give me the crack fill machine. Let's rock this bad boy. Last year, nah, my mind was my body. Nah, not so much. I think, I think I yelled for Eli more times last summer on parking lot than I ever did. You know, I'd be like, I need to go get us something to drink. You know, I think I need to go get us a snack. You guys are tired out here.
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Bryce Worre
Yeah, right. Yeah, that happens. You know, the biggest thing, how I got through that was, you know, I, as I get older I realize not everybody. I never used to take the time to teach people things. I just expected they Know as much as me and that they're just going to catch on. Right. So like, that I found, you know, like you actually do have to work with people and, and like teach them what to do. And especially nowadays, times have changed. Like the way we communicate is different than a 20 year old. I mean, you know, for example, like my son, he's 12, he's pumped. He asked a girl out to a dance. I'm like, oh, how did you, did you go up and ask? No, I texted her. I'm like, what? Yeah, you know, like so you kind of have to. The times have changed, right? But so like, but taking the time to work with the people and, and like, actually, you know, I don't say train them, but like teach them and stuff. That was the biggest thing because that develops trust as well. That's how I kind of dealt with that was just taking the time to like actually not be too busy to teach this individual. Like, this is the steps you need to take now. I want to watch you do it and then I'm going to tell you what you should do different next time and then we're going to do it again. Instead of just handing them something and being like, here you go, you see me do it once.
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Marvin Joelz
Did you build confidence in building your confidence in them? Did that give you confidence, more confidence at least and kind of letting go of the range a little bit?
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Bryce Worre
For sure, yeah. I mean it's trust building, right? It opens your eyes too, that like it, it makes it a little vulnerable because like when you're so used to just doing things yourself, I'll just do it. I'll just do kind of trains. It trained me a little bit to be like, you don't have to do everything. You have people around you that all you need to do is ask. I don't like to ask for help. I don't think a lot of us in this industry do. Like I'll be the first to admit, like I go to the hardware store, menards, whatever. Like I will try my hardest to carry out whatever it is or load it myself before I got to go ask for help. And I think that's just a mentality we kind of have in this industry. And that's one thing I think that should be broke down to a barrier, that it's okay to ask for that kind of help. Right.
- [24:50]
Marvin Joelz
If you're a subcontractor in the asphalt industry, you already know the deal. Slow pay, no communication, scopes that change and getting squeezed on price after the job's done. Paveco national is different because they didn't start as a national company. They used to self perform, they've been in the field, they've run crews, they dealt with the exact frustrations you deal with when working for other nationals. They built Papeco to be the company they wish they could have worked with. That means clear communication, fair contracts, and no games. They don't treat subs like placeholders. They treat them like partners because they've been on your side of the contract before. If you're ready to work with a national contractor that actually understands and respects your business, reach out to Paveco national, email them@partnersaveco.com or call 866-pavement-Paveco National. Making your life smoother. You know, I think back, like when people started these asphalt industries, right, or asphalt businesses, I'm sorry, when the industry first kind of got going and even in the 80s and in the 70s and whatnot, when people started some of these major businesses that we know now, the times are different. Like the things you had to balance were a lot different. Dude, you could put your number in a phone book or a newspaper and not market anymore, right? And now the competition is so stiff, there's so much acquiring for attention. You have people that need to record content and put stuff out and then you have managers and operations guys. And now the machines are more complex, so you can't do everything in house and you need them repaired. They got to go somewhere. You got to hire. So there's a lot more to it. And I'm, I'm thankful that we're in an industry where like our elders that are in the industry understand that like they, you know, we, we communicate enough to where they're like, I don't know if I could do what you guys did, you know, right about now, I don't know how you guys do it. Well, yeah, we do it on Red Bull and, and Jose Cuervo and, and everything for the most part. But there has to be some more knowledge about how to do it at that level for us nowadays and for my son Eli, like, for your son, for like our future generations. Because if not, that's what they're going to go to. So the very first step, I think, is us talking about it, exposing it, showing that, hey, there's a problem here and there's a cycle that we're all dealing with here. And it's not healthy and it's not something that we can do long term. And it doesn't make you more productive. It makes you Less productive. Who are the people that have went through this and figured out a process to do it? And where does that look like? 95% of the time they've seeked outside help in order to make that happen. Right. We just don't know that because we see them on Instagram standing as contractor of the year in front of all their trucks or in front of the squad and it just makes things change.
- [27:31]
Bryce Worre
I guess I was just gonna say, yeah. I mean, the amount of digital stimulation we have nowadays is just so crazy. And it's a different part of our brain now that is just so active because of all this digital content and everything. So yeah, it's. And I truly believe that is part of the big reason and a lot harder for us to, to grasp right now is because we don't know how to handle that digital stimulation. Because the people before us in the 80s, 90s, whatever, they didn't have that right? So, so they sometimes don't realize, like, what do you mean you're stressed out? Well, I just got 230 emails and they're like, what's an email? Right? So, so it's just, it is, it's a different time. And we're just so stimulated by all this, this technology and stuff that that's one of the biggest things we have to probably identify and figure out is like, how do we handle this? Because it's not going to go away.
- [28:29]
Marvin Joelz
The other thing technology's done right is let's just say in the 80s, you're in Southwest Wisconsin and you decide to start up a paving or an asphalt maintenance business. You know, three other people, but you don't know them personally who have a business. Like, you just know of their businesses. So you don't even know what's going on day to day. You don't know what projects they're doing, what they're, what anything looks like. Fast forward to our time. You know almost every paving or basketball maintenance company in the country and it is in front of your face how successful they are every single day. So there's this pressure or this comparison, even if, even if just subliminally and you're like, hey, this don't bother me. Even then your mind already makes a photo. Hey, they have this. You don't have this. Yeah, it's just there. It literally is work, man. Like it's work.
- [29:16]
Bryce Worre
Oh, for sure.
- [29:16]
Marvin Joelz
Hi. And be like, I can't let this affect me. Right? And a lot of people say that, like, ah, don't bother me. But then you get in some conversations a little bit later, something will creep out and you're like, oh, it actually does. Like if you're aware enough, you're like, oh, it actually is.
- [29:30]
Bryce Worre
Oh yeah.
- [29:31]
Marvin Joelz
So you know, there's, there's that crazy pressure too. What about this one's deeper, right? Because we did your day and then we do what the last year look like. And I know, you know, you shared about Max, which I greatly appreciate. I'm sure a lot of people resonate with that. We had our, our dog named Scratch got hit out on the road this year and dude, during like the hardest times for our whole family, you know, he was there and he was just like always happy and like, just throw me the damn ball. Yeah, like, dude, you just would go out there and throw his ball and pretty soon your mind would start clearing up and thinking, I missed that, I missed that aspect. What's the sing single hardest thing you've ever went through? Like, if I talk about it a lot, of course, you know, I'm recently divorced from my wife Kelly. But before that I didn't really realize it, but I was having, I have panic disorder, which now after speaking to a therapist like, hey, yeah, panic disorder. That's why you felt like you're in fight or flight all the time. And even though you wanted to do all these cool great things, every time you did that, you were putting something on your plate to panic about and you just non stop there with it. That was probably the, I think the hardest time was when I first started putting stuff on social media. You talk about being doubled up on the floor. I can remember. And if my ex wife Kelly was here, she would tell you. I can remember like not coming out of the house for two weeks when I first started putting stuff on social because I was like the tip of the spear and I was like, dude, everybody's gonna think I'm crazy. The only person I wouldn't think I was crazy was Gary V. And I'm like, dude, it's gotta be. I, I have to do this because I knew that that was probably the way we were gonna go. What was the hardest thing you've ever went through?
- [31:00]
Bryce Worre
Yeah, I mean, 2017, that's when I was probably the most successful as far as financially having things. But that's also the year that I, I had my, my mental breakdown. I have the same thing. I had a, actually I thought I was having a heart attack. I mean, I'll tell you the story. I remember I came out of a restaurant and all of a sudden I Started tingling, like, just tingling my whole body. And I'm like, what is going on? Did I just eat something poisonous? And pretty soon, like, I couldn't breathe. And all of a sudden, I'm, like, down on my knees behind my car, like, just laying there, like, someone call. Someone call 91 1. I'm having a heart attack.
- [31:41]
Marvin Joelz
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- [32:40]
Bryce Worre
Went in and they're like, no, you just. Have you ever had a panic attack? And I'm like, no. What's a panic attack? Like, I never heard. I don't have. I'm not. There's nothing wrong with me. I don't have panic attacks. And then pretty soon, you know, I found that that's what I was having. And a lot of it was because of the stimulation. My body was just, like, literally saying, like, no more.
- [32:58]
Marvin Joelz
How'd you find out that happened? Like, how'd you find out that that's what it was?
- [33:02]
Bryce Worre
I went to the hospital.
- [33:03]
Marvin Joelz
Okay. And then the doctor. Yeah. Had a panic attack. Yeah.
- [33:06]
Bryce Worre
They're like, you just had a panic disorder. There's nothing wrong with your heart.
- [33:10]
Marvin Joelz
You.
- [33:10]
Bryce Worre
And I'm like, oh, well, what is this? You know, like, yeah, I. I was a. I was a. A sports player, like, on high stress, like, things like that. And I'm like, there's this. There's no way. They're like, what's your caffeine consumption? I'm like, I don't, you know, a lot. 8. Eight cups of coffee a day maybe, or a couple red. They're like. And I was like, oh, so that's not healthy. And they're like, no. But what happened?
- [33:35]
Marvin Joelz
That.
- [33:35]
Bryce Worre
That wasn't even it, like, I didn't stop there. I was like, that's. That's a one. One time. It's going to just happen. It's not going to happen again. I continued that for another, like six months. Same thing.
- [33:47]
Marvin Joelz
Well, you had it, right?
- [33:48]
Bryce Worre
I had to, right? I had to, right? Yeah, it was. Now this. I've created this level of like, where I had to be. I'm not coming down from that. But it happened again, and it happened again, and it happened again. And pretty soon it got to that point where it was like, it got so bad that I couldn't even work or perform anymore as far as, like, I couldn't leave my house because, like, the moment I got in my car, I would have a. I would couldn't breathe and stuff. And then, like, I got depressed. I got depressed.
- [34:17]
Marvin Joelz
And this is how it's going to be. Permanently like this for sure. Oh, the same thing, dude. I had the same exact thing. I would drink, like, afterward, like, I started telling everybody, like, I'm. And I. I see it now looking back before when, like I had my incident where I went to the hospital and the same kind of thing, like, I thought I was having a heart attack or something was up. And I got there and I did an ekg. They're like, now you're good, Everything's fine. Like, they're like, you got a lot of stress in your life. My then Kelly and I weren't divorced yet. It was like a month until we were divorced. She's who drove me to the hospital, right? So, like, you got a lot of stress. Is there any way you can remove it out of your life? And Kelly was in there. She was in the room. She's like, I'm gonna go get a drink of water. Right? So then he was the room. So I had to tell the nurse, dude. I had to tell nurse. Yeah, that's my soon to be ex wife. Yeah. I got a lot of stress and whatnot going on in my life, but. And now afterward, like, dude, if I drink a fully leaded cup of coffee, one cup of coffee, I have brain fog all day.
- [35:12]
Bryce Worre
Yeah.
- [35:13]
Marvin Joelz
So I'm having to like teeter it a little bit and do half calf if I do anything. If not, I'll just do decaf. But it's crazy to think that we push ourselves to where caffeine will affect us like that, you know, so far gone. So once you got to that point, what did you do, man? Because like, I felt the same way. If I'm gonna be completely 100 honest with you, I knew in that moment that I wasn't going to be able to do BB at the capacity that we were doing it anymore. There was no possible way. And I knew I was the face of it. I would try doing interviews and whatnot. Titan came down here and we did like a, a video series that we had planned for like two years. I got here, I couldn't remember one line they would say a lot and I couldn't remember it back to the screen. And I was like, something is completely wrong with me. I remember telling Chris, our operations director at B, dude, something's completely wrong with me. But if it wouldn't have been that, the automation that we set forth, like, I'm, I know I plug jobber a lot. Everybody see me plug jobber. If that wouldn't have been in there, if softwares wouldn't have been in place to help me, there's no effing way I would have made it. And if Kyla wouldn't have been here, understanding how that all operates and helping me, there's no way I would have been able to do it. I was completely, I was nearly incapacitated. I was on like autopilot. Get up, where's the jobs, do the blacktop work, go to bed, get up, where's the jobs, do the blacktop work, go to bed. It was the simplest form of anything I did in my day was clean some blacktop, put some crack filler down, sealcoat it, patch it, leave, go back and put on repeat. If my life wouldn't have been designed like that, there's no way. So, you know, the way you're describing it, that paralyzing thing, same thing dude happened with me. What did you, what did you do? Like, where'd you start working? Or how'd you figure out how to get out of that?
- [36:59]
Bryce Worre
Well, I mean, didn't stop there. I mean, what happened was when that happens, like, I'm sure you felt it too. It's like you just, you feel worthless, like you get depressed, you're like, I can't, I can't do anything, I'm worthless. Like I'm used to being the person doing all this work, providing I, I can't even pick up my phone. I got 72 phone calls today and I don't even want to talk to anybody. The leader. You're the person that everybody looks up to. So, like, the other thing, I just. I hit as much as I could. Oh, he's. He's sick. He's. He's gone. Whatever. Like, I can't come. I would make any excuse not to have to do anything, because I couldn't. But I didn't want to look weak, right? So, I mean, it. It turned into, like, yeah, I'm going to be like this forever if this is the case. Like, I'm worthless. And that in that. That something triggered in my head that, like, convinced myself that, like, this is the way it's always going to be. You might as well not even be here. Right? And I took consideration a lot of times to where I had a gun in front of my head, around my head, in front of my wife, multiple times, just like. And I think back to those times I used to go deer hunting out in these areas, beautiful areas. And I drive by and I'd be like, if I'm going to end my life, that's where I'm going to end it.
- [38:18]
Marvin Joelz
And I.
- [38:19]
Bryce Worre
And I think back, like, how did. How did I get to that point in. In my brain to where. When I think of that now, I'm. I'm almost disgusted that I could even get to that point. But it all happened in this process that I always thought I was in control and I really wasn't, in this little voice inside me kept speaking. And I'm a spiritual person, and I truly believe it was probably. It was the devil telling me, like, you don't need help. Just. You'll get through it. Just keep doing it yourself. The thoughts you're thinking are fine. And I wouldn't be here today if I didn't have my wife and partner, because that. I would have kept listening to those and. And I would have. I would have took it past the point of return, honestly. So after. After we realized, like, that I was at that point, definitely got help.
- [39:12]
Marvin Joelz
Where'd you go for help? How'd you get help?
- [39:14]
Bryce Worre
We got. I had a good friend who's a therapist and helped us on the way of. Of recovery.
- [39:20]
Marvin Joelz
A lot of it.
- [39:21]
Bryce Worre
Honestly. What helped was talking about it. Like, I'd never to that point in my life ever sat down with somebody and just told them what I'm struggling with. Everything. And it's. It's just like a. A river of just emotion that leaves you because it's like, just kept inside. And I. In creating these formulations of, of just making it normal to talk about how you feel or if you're struggling with something. Just.
- [39:44]
Marvin Joelz
It.
- [39:44]
Bryce Worre
It took two years to get to a point back to like a normality of where I was. I don't say normal, but like I had a life that was functional. Functional. And I wasn't living on this. This extreme high of a stimulated life. So that's really the hardest thing I've been through for sure.
- [40:09]
Marvin Joelz
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- [42:26]
Bryce Worre
Yeah, right.
- [42:27]
Marvin Joelz
So, you know, just kind of this crazy. This crazy feeling. And I have the same thing now. I look back, I'm like, dude, why would you. Why were you thinking that? Like, what in the world would ever get you to that point where you'd think that? Because now, dude, I think God just had, like, the perfect timing. Because, like, yeah, the world of asphalt. Nikki and I meet, we start talking. We go into talking. Like, a couple months, I'd already filed for divorce, worried that this big spiral was going to happen. And it probably would have been a lot worse if there wouldn't have been filled with highs of Nikki and I doing things, hanging out, talking, doing whatever. And there's part of that I struggled with a lot of, like, a back and forth, you know, that statue of, like, I can't remember what it is. It's a guy grabbing a bull by the horns, maybe, or whatever. It is, like, struggle. I can't. Dude, I'm ashamed. I don't know the name of that statue. It had me, like, this back and forth of, like, Nikki, you know, here's this high, here's this low, here's this high, here's this low. Like, you're. This. At this point in my life, which really isn't fair because there's a high point and a low point that she just came into a relationship and there I am. So it was a good. It was a good balance back and forth of, like, that got me through it, that. But still, no matter what, in July is when I went to the hospital, when I had that panic attack, something had happened that I caught wind of that, you know, made me think about my kids and their future and already had court dates coming up. We were in the midst of business. I knew I wasn't really wanting to do BB anymore and was struggling, and it just kind of sent it over the edge. And yeah, dude, it. It. I. I didn't have those thoughts this year, this past year, but I had Them previously, when there really wasn't much positive to look forward to, I was just kind of caught in the day to day to day to day to day to day thing. And I'm like, yeah, I knew, like, I wasn't what I used to be. So then it made me start feeling this bad about myself, which now looking back on, I was like, dude, no, I, I don't think so. My problem is I put myself under a microscope.
- [44:29]
Bryce Worre
Yeah.
- [44:30]
Marvin Joelz
I'm like, why would you do that? There's billions of people. Like, we're doing fine. We're. We're doing, oh, you know, better than average when it comes to it. So can I ask you, in the grand scheme of things, with everything we've been through, you know, all the experiences, business. Right. Third generation, your wife sticking with you through this, what has life taught you? Like, if there was, you know, if there was something that you'd be like. Life taught me this. For Bryce, what do you think it would be?
- [45:04]
Bryce Worre
Life has taught me that you can't do it alone. I mean, I, I sometimes when I think of how I got to the position I was at, that mental state was. It was a lot of me trying to do it alone. And once I realized that I can ask for help, I can ask for somebody to do something with me, it doesn't make me any less of a person. I wish I would have known that sooner. Sooner that, that, that part of it. The one way I, I describe it is I was always taught, like, to. When something bothers you at work or whatever, you just bury it in the dirt.
- [45:46]
Marvin Joelz
Yeah.
- [45:47]
Bryce Worre
And you leave it there. It doesn't stay there when you, when you do that, all you're doing is nurturing. You're putting a seed in the ground, and then time and stuff won't make it go away. You're just nurturing it. It grows into this massive problem. And that's what happened to me was like, I. I planted all these seeds, and then I get stuck in this. I call it a dark forest. These trees grew up really big. I got stuck in this, and I refused to ask for help out of it because I put myself in there. And I wish I would have known when I was planting those seeds that that would have happened or that was the cycle that was going to happen through it. So, yeah, I mean, that's the biggest thing is, like, you know, it takes a village, it takes people, and, and that's the biggest thing I wish I would have known 20 years ago.
- [46:37]
Marvin Joelz
What about father four? Right. And I'm I got two myself, but I've taken on two more with Nikki as we're engaged here and gonna be making that happen. So I'm. I suddenly became for myself that I gotta kind of be a role model for. If you could teach something to your kids, like one thing, or if you could just like, I guess teach them, but just even just tell them that you would just. Would really sink in, that you wish they would understand, what would that be? If there was one thing that you just wish, like, man, I really hope they get this for their life.
- [47:13]
Bryce Worre
The thing that I always tell them is chase the dream, not the dollar. Find your passion and, and just, I don't care what it is. If it makes you happy, do it. Because that's really, you know, what life is all about is. And that's where I really changed the gears. Selling my construction company, going all in with Pave wise. That was my dream. And now I get to live this dream every day. Is it stressful? Is it hard? Yeah, but like, there was a part of me missing for a long time that like, probably the way you were with whizcode in blacktop banter and stuff, it's like you like doing one, but you got to do the other one because it pays the bills. And this is, you know, like, this is. It's kind of like you're stuck to it, right? The moment I released that and chased my passion, it is completely different life for me. I tell them all the time, like, find what you love and do it.
- [48:04]
Marvin Joelz
Yeah. What does the future look like, Bryce, for yourself? Sometimes. This industry gives us more than a paycheck. It gives us the chance to give back. Dream On 3 creates custom sports dreams for children living with life altering medical conditions. Moments to give families hope, joy, and memories that last a lifetime. This isn't about attention or headlines. It's about showing up for kids and families during some of the hardest moments of their lives. We believe in the mission of Dream On Three and we're proud to support and help raise awareness for the work they're doing. To learn more, visit dreamon3.org and follow them on Instagram. Reamon3 the future.
- [48:50]
Bryce Worre
You know, we're a young startup company. Our biggest goal is to help the construction industry just take some risk away by using, like you said, technology and software, managing some of that stuff. So like we. If I could leave a mark on the industry, any mark, it'd be like, all right, I made it a little bit better. I saved this individual an hour of their day. To go home with their family and spend that time with them because they don't have to sit and document this and journal this and do this extra work. So that's what I'm really pushing towards. Brittany and I are going to continue to run this company. We hope we're raising another round that we can just get up to maybe like 20, 30 employees have a exit someday with another company. And really the future, what my biggest goals are is to give it back someday, invest what I've worked so hard into somebody else and just pay it back. Because that's what fills my cup. And that's really why I work so hard, is that someday I can pay back what I've learned, what I've done to somebody else. Because, you know, that knowledge has been dumped on me as well. So that's the future. I mean, and you know, just being an advocate for this industry, like I used to be so ashamed of what I went through and I didn't talk to about any of this until just last year. And now I'm out at conferences. Vince was the one that kind of got me going. I called Vince one day and I'm like, vince, I got this story I need to tell you. And it's been weighing on me because there's not a lot of people know about it besides my closest family. And I feel like I happened to have lost somebody in the construction industry that really weighed on me because they look like the happiest person in the world. And I was like, I've been there and I wanna, if I can save one person from, from doing that by just talking about it like that, that's, that fills my cup and that's my goal here in the future.
- [50:51]
Marvin Joelz
Well, that's a good thing. I think you get to that point to where, yeah, you know, you hand off the business or do whatever you're going to do and you can look back and I don't know. There's a lot of people, dude, that spend time still in the industry after they sell whatever they have and they out and there's still a voice for a lot of people coming up. And there's a lot of people that are my mentors that shoot, they haven't ran an asphalt business in a long time. They haven't run any business in a long time. But they're still at the shows, they're still trying to people, they're still trying to connect. I think you just kind of got to dig in there and find them. And I, I think like when I look ahead like, whether I'm at the front of it or not, I hope, you know, somebody else is going to be taking the care of the day to day and I just get to show up and hang out and just observe the industry at large and just be there and talk with some other people and maybe, you know, you and I be old, old dudes there talking me like, yeah, I remember this for me like, that I hope that's what is in our future. Just like, I just want to look back and be like, it was a tough ride. I learned everything I was supposed to by what was put in front of me. And I'm cool with that. I'm happy with that. And I think that's kind of like what you're aspiring for, I would hope. Yeah, as well. Right. We get to go hunting in the woods and dude, I would love to go hunting. I made jerky this last week, but it came from soon to be father in law. Like the meat did. I had to make it my dehydrate. I'm like, dude, I haven't made our own jerky probably since Eli shot a deer a couple years ago. And I've been thinking lately, like, dude, why don't I do that anymore? Yeah, not that big of a time suck if you know how to hunt. Right? And I'm like, yeah, I don't know why I'm not doing that anymore. But I was talking with Nikki a little bit about it today because I'm like, I don't necessarily know that I. I'm taking enough time to do what I should was put here to do, actually.
- [52:36]
Bryce Worre
Oh, for sure.
- [52:37]
Marvin Joelz
Just enjoy the fact that we're here with the people we love. Yeah, cool, man. Well, I appreciate it, dude. I really, really do. I'd love. What'd you say your wife's name was? Brittany.
- [52:46]
Bryce Worre
Brittany, Yep.
- [52:47]
Marvin Joelz
Dude, I would love to get her on the podcast. Can you convince that? Because I would love to like talk to her somewhat about the other side of the spectrum from somebody looking in, you see, would she. You think she doing that?
- [52:58]
Bryce Worre
For sure? Yeah. Because I mean she, she definitely seen the, the, the worst parts of all of it from a different point of view and she stuck through it. That's. That's the most amazing thing and what I'm so thankful for because like the rage, what I, what I put her
- [53:17]
Marvin Joelz
through about it, I don't even want to think about it. I'm like, I'm with you because I like, all I do is like, I'll. I'll ask some people or I did ask people like, do you forgive me for that? And they're like, yeah. Then I'm like, all right, I'm washing my hands of that because it makes, it makes me feel shitty, dude. I shouldn't have on that. So I'd love it if you get on there, man, because I think that that's a great perspective, especially on her end. Like, what do you do? What do you. I don't, I don't know what to do with that old version of me. Like, I don't know what to do with that. So it'd be great to have it on it, dude. I really, really appreciate you joining us and talking about this. I'm hyped for what you all are doing over there at Paperwise too, now that you. It's got your, well, most of your attention. I'm hoping you're spending your attention other places and whatnot as well. But it seems like you all got it figured out and how to dial it in for the marathon and not to sprint. So. I really, really appreciate it, man.
- [54:06]
Bryce Worre
No, I, I appreciate being on here and, and talking about these things and. Yeah, I mean, I look forward to. I hope we are. I hope we're, you know, 80 years old at some asphalt expos, talking about the good old days and all that fun stuff. We'll be there.
- [54:20]
Marvin Joelz
Yeah, Eli be pushing me around in a wheelchair. I'm grabbing, I'm gonna be grabbing pens from the AFCO booth probably.
- [54:28]
Bryce Worre
There you go. Make it happen.
- [54:32]
Marvin Joelz
Yeah, man. I appreciate it. All right, guys. So for myself and for Bryce, once again, we really appreciate you joining us and for staying in the mix with us. Peace. Later.
- [54:45]
Podcast Announcer
Thanks for hanging out with us on in the Mix. For more on the world of blacktop, head over to marvinjols.com and don't forget to to follow Marvin on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube for extra content, behind the scenes looks and industry insights. Be sure to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you got value from today's show, leave us a well worded five star review. It really helps more asphalt pros find us. Catch you next time on in the Mix.