Up at 2:30 AM: How Discipline Built a Resilient Leader Ep. #23

Summary

Podcast Summary: In The Mix with Marvin Joles
Episode #23: Up at 2:30 AM: How Discipline Built a Resilient Leader
Guest: Bryce, General Manager at Central Paving
Date: March 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, host Marvin Joles welcomes Bryce, the General Manager of Central Paving in Ellensburg, WA. Together, they explore themes of discipline, routine, resilience, self-doubt, loss, leadership, and personal development—offering a raw, real-world look at what it takes to lead and grow in the paving industry. The conversation moves comfortably from practical day-to-day routines to the deeper personal and professional struggles that shape effective, empathetic leaders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Bryce & Background

• Bryce’s journey: From 100+ employees at Central Paving, through restructuring, to building a more sustainable and close-knit team.
• Marvin’s role as an industry connector and observer of growth stories (03:00).
  • Quote: "Do you feel like a dad just kind of watching their kids grow?" — Bryce (02:13)

2. Morning Routine & Discipline

• Daily routine: Wakes up at 2:30 AM (06:22), dedicates 2–3 early hours for self (workout, reading, meal prep, reflection).
• The competitive edge and the personal drive to be “up before anyone else.”
  • Quote: "My morning routine probably is everything for me... If I miss it, I am thrown off completely." — Bryce (06:22)
• Home gym, training for a marathon, high-protein breakfasts, and mindful transitions into the workday.
• 5 hours of sleep/night is typical; feels sharper this way (12:20).

3. Work-Life Balance & Community Engagement

• Balancing long workdays (up to 6 pm) with coaching youth sports for his children (11:26).
• Ranch life: Raising beef, pigs, chickens—highlighting a self-sufficient and intentional lifestyle (13:30).

4. Facing Challenges: Personal & Professional Loss

Personal Loss:

• The passing of a “second mom” from cancer hit especially hard.
  • Quote: "She was simply one of the most beautiful people I've ever met, inside and out. She helped raise me." — Bryce (15:13)
• Reflection on reconnection, lost time, and the pain of losing someone inherently good.
• Lesson: Don’t take good people for granted. "When you have them in your life...don't wait until it's too late." (16:33)

Professional Setbacks:

• 2022: Led Central Paving to its biggest financial loss; 2023 meant letting go of 66 employees (36:21).
  • Quote: "There is nothing more humbling than having to let go of two thirds of your team because you failed them the year before. And I get the opportunity to stay." — Bryce (36:23)
• The psychological toll, confronting his own failures, and the subsequent journey to rebuild both company and self.

5. Self-Doubt, “Default Character,” and Working on Oneself

• Persistent struggle with imposter syndrome and insecurity, despite achievements.
  • Quote: "My biggest fear is not being enough. For my wife, my kids, my team, myself. It's the imposter syndrome." — Bryce (24:40)
• The importance of awareness: Recognizing the “default character” (insecurity) and striving toward an aspirational self.
• Marvin shares similar experiences, highlighting that even high-achievers face inner doubts (29:03).
• "Work harder on yourself than you do your job." — Bryce (57:12, referencing Dan Martell)

6. The Role of Reflection & Processing Challenges

• Writing by hand (gratitude and “why” journals) as a tool for self-reflection and problem-solving (48:59).
  • Quote: "Why is the most underrated question that we rarely ask enough." — Bryce (50:36)
• The difference between "putting band-aids" and "doing surgery" on personal issues.

7. Leadership, Growth, and Shifting Mindsets

• Shifting from trying to control all situations, to embracing self-forgiveness, grace, and more fluid leadership (45:00, 49:31).
• Emphasizing real, face-to-face communication (62:00).
  • Quote: "Face to face is always better. Never underestimate the power of a face to face conversation." — Bryce (61:50)

8. Lessons for the Next Generation

• What do you want your kids to know?
  • Power of face-to-face communication and authentic connection.
  • The importance of smiling and positive energy.
  • The necessity of processing and expressing struggles—instead of hiding them, as "buried struggles will break you" (65:18).
• Quote: "If you try to hide it, the truth will come out. And if you hide it for too long, it will bury you." — Bryce (65:18)

9. Looking Forward: Legacy and Impact

• Continuing as GM at Central Paving and coaching the next generation.
• Passion for industry education, mentorship, and helping others develop leadership skills (69:04).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Discipline:
  "2:30 to, I'm gonna say 5:30 in the morning. That's my time. That is 100. That is me solely focused on me." — Bryce (07:08)

• On Self-Doubt:
  "I have always feared what other people think of me... I have to get up at 2:30. That's why I tell myself I have to work out, I have to push myself. It's why I do everything I do." — Bryce (24:39)

• On Failure and Humility:
  "There is nothing more humbling than having to let go of two thirds of your team because you failed them the year before. And I get the opportunity to stay." — Bryce (36:23)

• On Reflection:
  "Writing...handwriting, not typing. That's how I process it. I write down the situation and I just write ‘Why?’... until I'm like, that's the one." — Bryce (48:59)

• On Being Yourself:
  "Be yourself. A lot of my life growing up has been dictated by the fear of what others thought of me... When I became...a leader, it was, oh, this is what I think it needs to be. But that's not me. That's not who I am." — Bryce (51:14)

• On Working on Yourself:
  "Work harder on yourself than you do your job. ... If you work harder on yourself, you will show up better for your team, your wife, your kids, your family..." — Bryce (57:12)

• On Communication:
  "Face to face is always better. Never underestimate the power of a face to face conversation." — Bryce (61:50)

• On Vulnerability:
  "If you try to hide it, the truth will come out. And if you hide it for too long, it will bury you." — Bryce (65:18)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Marvin’s Industry Perspective – 00:53–04:47
• Bryce’s Morning Routine – 06:22–09:13
• Work-Life Balance & Family – 11:26–13:41
• Handling Loss & Reconnection – 14:36–18:58
• Biggest Lifetime Challenge: Self Doubt – 24:18–29:02
• Letting Go of Employees/2023 Reset – 36:21–39:05
• Hitting the Breaking Point & Recovery – 39:05–41:08
• On Reflection, Why Journals, and Life Lessons – 48:54–51:14
• Being Yourself & Character – 51:14–57:25
• Advice to His Children – 61:04–66:36
• The Future: Leadership and Coaching – 67:46–71:16

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Tone & Style Reflections

The episode is open, honest, and conversational, balancing humor and depth. Both Marvin and Bryce lean into vulnerability, offering practical wisdom and hard-earned lessons with a sense of camaraderie and humility. The episode carries a positive, encouraging message for leaders at all levels, emphasizing the importance of routines, continuous self-improvement, authenticity, and human connection—both in the workplace and beyond.

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Takeaways for Asphalt Pros & Leaders

• Discipline begins before dawn—and “winning the morning” matters.
• Leadership requires confronting personal fears, processing loss, and being honest about struggles.
• Leading is as much about humility, gratitude, and reflection as it is about results.
• True resilience is built in the daily routines and the willingness to ask “why.”
• Be yourself, connect face-to-face, and don’t hide your struggles; use them to help others.

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For the full experience, listen to the episode, and stay “in the mix” with Marvin Joles and guests bringing real talk to the world of asphalt and beyond.

Transcript

[A]

Today's episode of in the Mix is powered by Jobber.

[B]

Welcome to in the Mix, paving the way to insight, education and entertainment in the asphalt industry. Your host, Marvin Joelz, a best of Web pavement award winner, knows the blacktop community and what it takes to win in this industry. Each episode you'll hear real stories, expert insights and road tested strategies from the people who make up the asphalt world and beyond. Whether you're paving parking lots, ceiling driveways, striping lines, or innovating asphalt tech, this is the podcast for pros who keep the industry rolling. Now here's Marvin.

[C]

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode. Feeling good. The weather's nice. I think I was just telling Bryce, who's joining us today on the podcast, quoted 23 projects the last two days. That's good, right? I mean, the season's going, we're doing our thing, but yeah, we, we were fortunate enough to share some time together at Paybacks over the winter here. Of course, Bryce and I talk fairly often. He is, was a key member for us at the Blacktop Baron success group. Kind of started doing his own thing with the foundation group. And dude, it's really nice to have you here and have that perspective. I should say your position, you're still a general manager. We still got that right? Is that, that is correct.

[A]

Yep. General manager at Central Paving.

[C]

General manager at the award winning Central Paving.

[A]

Yes, sir.

[C]

It's been a really unique thing because I'm in a unique position in the industry where a lot of times I'm the person that, that is like people's intro to like the community of the industry. So I get to get a first glance at everybody and then once I create content, then it becomes aware that the, the industry or the community becomes aware of that entity. And then we watch them rise. But I kind of get a firsthand thing. So for me, do you feel like a dad?

[A]

Do you feel like a dad just kind of watching their kids grow?

[C]

No, because I'm not taking any responsibility for anything anybody does. I'm like the uncle. I'm like, the uncle's like, yeah, do it. Yeah, do it. You know, I'm like that guy. And then when they, you know, if they mess it up, that didn't turn out good. But if they do, well, I'm like, see, I told you they were going to make it, man. Yeah, it was cool. It's cool to see you guys up there doing your thing and knowing that you and I talk about this a lot. Like a lot of times we're like, dude, we don't even know what we're doing. And then all of a sudden, like, you're winning awards, you're churning out numbers that you didn't expect you're going to turn out. And people actually say, I like working here, you know, and, hey, I don't mind hanging out with you. But we are constantly in a state of, like, figuring it out, and I feel like we have this false image of, like, one day we're going to figure it out. Right?

[A]

Like, you.

[C]

You think that when you first get into it, and then all of a sudden you're like, no, dude. It's just constantly. It's a constant state of figuring it out. And it's like that, yeah, I've decided I'm never good.

[A]

I'm never going to figure it all out. So I've just kind of rested. Rested my case on that one. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. Well, tell us where. Where are you guys located at?

[A]

So, Ellensburg, Washington. Smack dab in the middle of Washington state. We literally have the. The survey marker for the center of the state in our town.

[C]

So Central. Oh, Central. Central. Okay.

[A]

Right in the middle.

[C]

Yeah, Central. That makes sense. Now, how many people you guys got there at Central?

[A]

About 30 to 40 now.

[C]

Okay, man.

[A]

At one point, we got up to about 100, but right now we're at about.

[C]

About 30 to 40, man. Yeah. Yeah. I was. I was on Jobber Summit yesterday and was listening to Gary Vee speak, and he was talking. He's like, if you don't have over 100 employees, I don't even want to. Like, I don't want to hear that.

[A]

You.

[C]

You can't take time to get to know each of your people. He's like, I don't even want to hear that. He's like. He's like, I got thousands at vaynermedia and at Vayner Sports and whatnot. He's like. And I still do. He's like. So he's like, I want to hear. Somebody came up with the question, right? Like, how do I make time for that? And he's like, really? Like, you guys are seal coaters, lawn mowers, lawn care guys, landscape. Like, there's literally like eight or ten of you at the most. I know. He's like, I. I don't want to hear this right In. You kind of think about that in some capacity. Like, you do get to a certain point where you got to have somebody else carry the reins a little bit. But it's been pretty cool for you, for me to watch you guys I was fortunate enough to know you right on the edge of coming off the 100 person cataclysm.

[A]

And I'm assuming we'll get into that one a little bit today and what

[C]

that looked like and then watch you reset and come back. And that's kind of what I've been doing the last year was like, okay, I hit my. It's not really 100, but it was a cataclysm. And I'm like, okay, we gotta reset here and, and really figure out how to do this because just adding to a pile, although it sounds cool, and you think you're doing something, you're. It could be counterproductive. So let's get into it a little bit, man. Here's the thing. Do it. We're record this a little bit after 8:30 in the morning. By now I know that you have wrote a manifesto, organized a symphony, climbed a Mountain, did 10 rucks, and found yourself in electrostatic oneness through meditation and wrote five poems and made yourself all your food for the week for all your meal preps. And now you're just gonna come in and you know, kind of have a cool day at work. Am I right? That started probably about 12:45 this morning. AM yeah, yeah.

[A]

By now we're on. I mean we're on day two.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Now I am missing my collecting a sunrise this morning, you know, to be

[C]

with you this morning.

[A]

But I can see it out my window. So we're okay.

[C]

All right, well, I see you're the, you're one of the only guys I know that has a 36 hour day, four hours. But let's talk a little bit about what your average day looks like. Because it's not average. I've come to find out for most people, they don't do what you do when it comes to a morning routine. So tell us especially your morning routine, tell us what an average day looks like for you.

[A]

Yeah, so my, my morning routine probably is everything for me. It does kind of dictate how I start my day, how my day goes. If I miss it, I am thrown off completely my day. So typically between my ALARM Right now, 2:30am Yeah, 2 to. 2 to 2:30 in the morning, sure.

[C]

Standard.

[A]

Some people consider that early morning, some people consider that late night. So I don't know if I'm a night owl or an early bird, but either way it wasn't always 2:30. Honestly, I started, I've always worked out in the morning. I've done it for over a decade now. Well over a Decade. But it was always, it started at 4 in the morning and then I was like, oh, I want like just, you know, I want to do a little bit more. So then it went to 3:30 and then it went to 3 and then it went to 2:30, bro. And 2:30 to, I'm gonna say 5:30 in the morning. That's my time. That is 100. That is me solely focused on me.

[C]

Has to be. No one else is awake, bro.

[A]

Well, there's a, I'm a little competitive too. So there's a sense of competition, of I'm getting up and I'm getting my, my stuff handled, you know, before everybody else. But I like to get up. My wife would tell you that it's a mental problem because there definitely is. I don't set a snooze. I refuse to have a snooze on my cell phone or my alarm. But when that alarm goes off, there are days absolutely I don't want to get up and I'll sit there and I'm like, oh, just go to sleep, man, you're fine. Time. But then it'll just ping in my head over and over. Oh, you're not going to get up. You're not going to get up. So and so would get up. Why don't you get up? So here I am.

[C]

So you pop up 2:30, 2:30 up

[A]

in the gym by 3. So I've got a, I've got a home gym. I built nice here, used to go to the gym. Definitely been worthwhile to invest in a home gym setup, especially early in the morning. So by 3am I'm in the gym. What I do is completely varies based on the week, the day. Right now I'm training for my first marathon. So three days a week I'm running and then other days it's different of cross training, weight training, weightlifting, you know, combination of everything. Recently got a sauna. So I kind of threw that into the morning routine too. And then I'm usually wrapped up, wrapped up and done by 4, 4, 4:30 in the morning on the workout side. So about an hour and a half is typically what it takes for me to get through my, my morning workout, come inside and you know, I get ready for the day reading. I usually spend a half hour, 20, 30 minutes reading. That's that it will either be audiobook or reading a book.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And then do. Well, if I'm listening to audiobook, I might, you know, make breakfast, do stuff like that. I always try to cook breakfast for me is extremely Important. What do you need? A lot of eggs.

[C]

Yeah, same. Yeah bro.

[A]

A lot of eggs.

[C]

A lot of.

[A]

You know, I don't, nobody should be taking diet advice from me.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

But I, my favorite, my favorite steak and eggs. You know that would be my, my number one go to. And I definitely start, I definitely focus heavier on breakfast meats and fats. Yeah. Proteins and fats over everything else.

[C]

Get your brain fired up.

[A]

Yep. And I would say in the winter time I tend to be a little bit slower. So I get in the office probably about 6:30 in the winter. In season I get in the office about 5:30, 6:00'. Clock.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And then morning time. I've recently switched. I used to have all my meetings in the morning. But morning for me is when I do my best, what I call deep work and it's my focus time. So obviously by now I'm a morning person so I definitely try to lock in, spend a few hours in the morning. And my days in the afternoon are usually filled with various meetings. Whether it's leadership meetings. Direct. I've got about nine to 10 direct reports that I meet with on a weekly basis or it could be a day, once a week. I try to dedicate to being out in the field. So going out and working, working with the guys, grabbing a shovel, helping out where I can, screwing things up a

[C]

little bit for everybody for sure. Keep everybody on their toes. If you've been in asphalt long enough, you've probably said there's gotta be a better way to measure this. That's where Moser comes in. It's a simple app and motion based tool that lets you measure areas, distances, elevations and volumes just by walking the site. From patches and overlays to stockpiles and takeoffs, Moser helps contractors get the numbers they can trust fast. This show is about real stories and the real tools that move our industry forward. And Moser is one of them. To learn more about what Moser can do, head to the link in the description. When your day wraps up, what time is your day usually wrap up?

[A]

Usually work at work. I would, I would say normally between, unless we got something going on normally between five and six. I also, I also coach my, my kids in sports. So it'll either be usually get home about 6 or head to a practice to coach baseball or basketball.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Right now we're coaching, coaching my son's 8th grade or 2nd grade team 8 year olds.

[C]

So coaching what basically what are you coaching?

[A]

Baseball, basketball, Basketball now? Yeah.

[C]

So then you get home eight usually. Or what If I'm.

[A]

If I don't have any coaching going on, I'm Normally home about 6, 6:30.

[C]

6:30, okay. What time you go to bed? You get up to 30. What time you go to bed?

[A]

Kids go to bed at 8. I would love to go to bed at 8. Normally. 9, 9:30.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Is when the night is when I fall.

[C]

You're working on about five hours of sleep.

[A]

It's prime time.

[C]

Shoot. I'm on five hours now, and I feel like. And I ain't a solid five hours. I was intermittent there. And I'm like, oh, I could use like 15 hours. What did me some solids.

[A]

And I wanna. I wanna preface by saying, so don't

[C]

eat breakfast and have a better sleep pattern than.

[A]

Yeah, I know five hours would go against every doctor's orders and goes against everybody'. Works for me right now. It has. I mean, it has worked for me for probably five, six years now.

[C]

You feel sharp with five hours. And if you get more sleep, do you feel more sharp or do you just.

[A]

If I get eight. If I get eight hours, I feel dead.

[C]

Really. Oh, you overslept.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

You know what does that to me? If I, like you were talking like, if I go to. My bioclock is like 5, 45, 6. And if I don't get up and I hang out another half an hour, 45 minutes, then I'm dead. But if I get up when my bioclock's like, let's get up, I'm good. But if I hang out longer, I know I'm groggy and I'm tired throughout the day, I'm like. And he only resets going back to bed. So let's talk a little bit now. Let me figure out what your day looks like and that you don't forget.

[A]

We also have a ranch family up. My wife and I also have a little ranch going on. So we raise our own beef. And so we're all just. That's always in the mix too. Beef.

[C]

That's where steak and eggs come from. Yeah, we do pig.

[A]

We do pigs, too. Chickens, turkeys, you name it, we got it all.

[C]

Yeah, I have to get one. Yeah, get a hot dog machine. That way he's everything. Don't go look up how hot dogs are made, dude, it's. Oh, you are not gonna eat any after that. So saying all that, you know, you're prepping yourself, getting yourself in shape and going through this routine so that you can take on what your daily life takes throws at you. That being said, you're putting your best foot forward, but we all have challenges. This past year, what was your biggest challenge? And it doesn't have to be work related. Tell us what it was and then go into a little bit about how you overcame it if you did. But over the past year, you know this. From this winter to last winter, we had a full season. You have a life, got kids, got things to do. What was your biggest challenge?

[A]

You know, I got. I got a couple I'd like to share and one is personal, one is more career focused. But this year, you know, I never, I never really thought much about going on. I had a buddy's mom years back, got cancer. She was kind of like my second mom growing up. And it finally came back in full effect this year and we lost her this year and that has probably been. I lost my dad in 2022, which was difficult, but losing her hit. It hit different.

[C]

How come, Bryce?

[A]

I don't know. I tried to think about why, you know, it was. She is. I mean, she's simply one of the most beautiful people I've ever met inside and out. She was just. She helped raise me, you know, she definitely was like a. Like a second mother for me. And it was a. It was a big. It was a. The day that she passed away. Well, that it was the day after actually. But it was a. The hardest and best day that I had all year because I got to go spend it with her and my friend's family, people I haven't seen in years. And it was like nothing had changed. It was so that side was great. Bring it coming together there. But just seeing who she had, who she was, you know, knowing who she was, knowing how strong she was, knowing how tough she was, how, you know, just her entire spirit and seeing it come to an end, that was tough. That was definitely tough.

[C]

Do you ever think like there's only so many good people and it's like those. That hurts.

[A]

I. I made a post about it the day after and I've. I've always. I've been very quiet about it. I haven't really gone out on social media out of respect for the family. You know, I post things on social media for myself and I'm definitely share more but not everybody wants to, so I don't necessarily. I try to keep that private, but I did. I mean I. It was the day after and to me it just hit of. Don't take the good people for granted.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

It's when you have them in your life. I went years without talking to her not out of anything. There was no maliciousness to it. It was just like a busy. I grew up.

[C]

That's life.

[A]

And in the last couple years since she. The. She got sick again, we started seeing each other more. I started sending her pictures of my kids. We started kind of interacting more. And it was knowing what I. What, you know, I missed in those years when we could have still had that relationship.

[C]

It's tough.

[A]

It hits different.

[C]

Yeah, well, you get, like we were saying, life happens. I was talking with somebody yesterday about that, and just being like, we don't know how, dude, we're. You get to where you're able to create a living and need to. And you start your life and you get focused on that, and then once you get on the backside of, like, okay, all I got to do is just do this, and I'm going to maintain. Then all of a sudden, you start to look back and be like, okay, now I can catch up with all that. The problem is time has passed. You don't have as much time to catch up, and you're like, ah. And you just. You realize it. And somebody could say that to us when we're 20, but you don't really realize it until you're in your 30s. That's actually what they meant in that you experience it firsthand. You know, like, you could tell me how awesome it is to skydive. I'm not really gonna know until I go skydive.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And that's kind of the same thing. And I. I think that we have to be able to give ourselves some grace in that, because it's like, you're not gonna know that, like, you can't fault yourself or that it's just like. That's just the way it goes. That's the way it's always went for everybody since we were created, you know? So, yeah, it's. It's a hard one. It's a hard pull. But now.

[A]

Now that one, I don't know if I've. That was a. I mean, it was definitely. It's been. It's been a few months now. I don't know if I'm ever. If I overcame it necessarily. But what it did do is it brought me back closer to my old buddy, my old friends and family.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so definitely communicated more interactive with them more. We check in on a regular basis. That has helped. That's. That's been a big. Because that was a big part of my life, them, you know, being a part of. I went on trips with that family. I Did a lot of stuff with that family growing up.

[C]

So, yeah, I got a buddy like that right now we're disconnected and it's just like we just turned into two different people. We both got different families, different lives, whatever. But we were inseparable. You know, I'm a little darker skinned, if no one can tell if you're listening, maybe. And you've never seen me. Maybe you can't tell and. But his last name was White. Is White. And he was White. And his dad would call Salt and Pepper because we were just. We went together everywhere and you know, thus things change. Life changes, move on, move forward and things change. But tell us about the other thing.

[A]

The other one is one that you and I have. Have talked extensively about over, especially this last year.

[C]

Whether there's losing.

[A]

Mars. Losing sight of where I am now.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Out of concern on where I feel or think I should be. Where I need to be.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Getting caught up where everybody else is thinking I need to be so far ahead, I need to be here. I should be doing this and not taking the time to realize where I am.

[C]

Yeah,

[A]

that is, that. That's a fun mental game, man.

[C]

You throttle yourself back a little bit and then you gotta like, unplug a little bit. And when you get up at 2:30am and have a routine so that you can advance every day, it gets to be a little tricky. It definitely is. And I think I've always said that, like, what's crazy is for me, dude, is like, I've said that to everybody that I develop relationships with. But then at some point I lost sight of it my own damn self. And I'm like, shoot, like I was preaching this thing, was living it, and then lost it and then had to, like, take my own advice and get it back. If 2026 is the year you want to make more money in your business, it starts with two things. Staying busy and getting paid faster. That's why I use Jobber. Jobber is software built for blue collar businesses, and it's designed to help you book, work ahead of the busy season and keep your cash flow strong all year long. Their marketing tools help you get found, look professional, and stay booked. Not just when the phone's ringing, but before the rush even hits. And once the work's booked, Jobber Payments helps you collect deposits up front and get paid faster so you're not chasing checks or waiting weeks for the money that you've already earned. Bottom line, Jobber helps you stay busy and stay paid. If you want to make more money in 2026 with software built for blue collar. Try Jobber for free today. The link's in the description. Tell us a little bit about how you overcome. Overcome that. That challenge.

[A]

A. I put the last probably two years. Year two is when I've really noticed it. Honestly, I never really gave second thought to it before. I really started thinking, okay, I want to make an impact in our industry. And now it's like, okay, well, shoot, look at all these other people making these extreme impacts. I'm not there. You know, I started highly emphasizing gratitude in my life. So every Wednesday I call Appreciation Wednesday, where I focus on something that I'm thankful for. I make a post about it. I definitely share that. And then every night I started a gratitude journal. And every night I write one or two sentences about being thankful of where I am, where I've come from, how far I've come, where it's taking me that to just bring myself back to present.

[C]

When it helps, it helps.

[A]

It's still. It's the last thing I do before bed, so it's the last thing I read, it's the last thing I see, it's the last thing I think about. And it helps.

[C]

Yeah. What about, you know, you. We. We talk about the last year. You're really good at keeping a routine so that when things. First of all, it allows things to not get out of control and things not get too heavy in a lot of places. But it also allows you to kind of deal with and be ready for the surprises. We'll put it that way. That come with the asphalt industry and managing people and keeping things moving. When we, when we think about that like the year. A lot can happen in a year and sometimes the years are harder than other years. Like, the hardest thing I probably ever went through was within the last year, but before that I would have thought it was something else or something else. So what about for the entire span of your life from when you were born or young to now? What is the single hardest thing that you ever went through? Like, what is the single hardest thing that you've had to overcome in the span of your lifetime? What do you think is the biggest thing?

[A]

Self doubt.

[B]

The.

[A]

That is my single biggest challenge that I face every day. And I faced it ever since I was little. I was actually talking to my wife about this the other night. I. We had a conversation where we started asking each other questions at the end of every night. We each take turns and it was, what's your biggest fear?

[C]

That's a big one.

[A]

My. My Biggest fear is not being enough, is not for who my wife, my kids, my team, myself. It's, it's the imposter syndrome. You feel like you don't deserve it and you have to earn it. And that's, that's why I tell myself I have to get up at 2:30. That's why I tell myself I have to work out, I have to push myself. It's why I do everything I do.

[C]

Why is it like that? Where does that come from?

[A]

She asked the same thing. She said, man, that, that comes rooted from.

[C]

It has to come from somewhere. I mean, I mean the reason I wanted to achieve so bad is because I, I came from where I came from a group and a place and a level where they were like, this is all you're going to be able to be. And because of history repeat and this is what you're going to be. And that is where I was like, that's what made me push hard until I got out of it. At least just so I could be like, see, right. But I kind of have the same thing. Like I still feel like that sometimes too. But where do you think it comes from for you?

[A]

I grew up with a very decent life. I don't have anything that was like a dark past, anything that grew up, you know, I had a, you know, I had a mom and dad who supported me, pushed me into, you know, into doing sports, playing sports. Great neighborhood, great. So I had what you would consider a decent, a decent upbringing, very supportive. But for some reason, do you think

[C]

it's supposed to keep up with that? You think it's keep up with that or you're like, oh, I got to maintain this.

[A]

It's. For as long as I can remember and tell you I have always feared what other people think of me.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

And that feeds into people. Obviously people look at me and they'll say, man, you're, you know, you're an extrovert. You're, you know, how can you do this? And I said, my true characters, I'm completely insecure. Yeah, I don't mind. I'm an extrovert when I can control the situation. When I'm, you know, I don't mind being, you know, joking and laughing and being what you call like the class clown growing up, I can do all that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But when it comes to trying to be real, trying to make a difference, trying to feel like, hey, am I actually making an impact? I have a lot of self doubt when it comes to that. I've had to, I've had to work really hard trying to overcome it.

[C]

You gain ground on that. You think now like, I mean, you're going to run a marathon. Not a lot of people can do that. You manage an award winning company, not a lot of people do that. You post regularly and are outgoing online, not a lot of people do that. You started a group, not a lot of people do that. That you lead. How do you think you're doing? You think I'm better? Are you measuring?

[A]

I'm better, man. And I'm better and it's hard because I will have people ask, you know, I, so I, I get the opportunity to lead a team of 30 plus people here at Central Paving. Yeah. I get the opportunity to have 15. Right now we're at 15 people in the foundation group, the peer group that I'm, I'm running and I'm, I'm also coaching, you know, I coach kids sports and I'm coaching frontline leaders in our industry right now, one on one with becoming basically what I am, the right hand man to the owner. Aligning with the owners in our industry and helping them see what's needed so they can be that guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I have people who will ask me, well, how are you supposed to teach me if, if you don't feel you, if you doubt yourself?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I said the reason I work so hard to give you the value is because I doubt myself. I've been, I've now been the general manager here for three years at Central Paving and I still don't feel like I've earned it. Yeah. I still feel if I'm not out there holding the shovel, if I'm not out there with the guys, I'm missing something, I'm letting them down. Even though that's not, I can logically say that's not my job. I need to be where I am today because this is what my role calls for.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

But I can't help that little, that little thing in the head. I call it your by default character. It sits right in there, you know, and it constantly sits back. So him and I are, him and I are constantly having, having that conversation.

[C]

Yeah. I think, I think that's the younger version of ourselves. Like if for me, I always tell everybody, like I kind of became aware that I became aware of a few things about 1112 probably. One, I didn't have my parents with me and that's not normal. Two, we lived far below what the average humans live here in the United States. Right. For when it comes to median income and whatnot. 3. I didn't have very many opportunities. Like that's all of a sudden when I became aware and I feel like that's when my brain first started thinking, okay, you're smart. I knew for some reason that I logically came to conclusions a lot faster and with far better results than most of the adults around me. So I was like, okay, I got an advantage here. I just have to think properly and figure out how I need to do this. A good work ethic was instilled in me by actually my buddy who I was talking about his dad Jack, who I call dad, still was just like, dude, we literally, he's like, we have to go to work every day, we have to get up. I got a family, got kids. Like we stopped going, this stops. And I was like, well I'm gonna go and it'll get me out of this. So I got a great work ethic and I had a brain and I was like, okay, that's gonna get me out of this. So I was driving down the interstate on my way to Tennessee and went through Indiana and I seen some night paving. I seen these big balloon lights on the back of the paver that were illuminating the whole area where everybody was working. Guess where those came from? Portable Lighting Solutions.

[A]

Portable.

[C]

They're the only balloon light manufacturer offering the consumer a replaceable screw in LED bulb that is field serviceable in minutes. They have a patented slide in assembly and they have a push to rapidly deploy mechanism. So you know, you push down on the top, it pops up, it lights the whole area up. You push down, it shuts off. They're manufactured right here in the usa. There's no patch kits, there's no blower motors, there's no set screws and they're UL certified. So whether you're seal coating at night, I'm going to get one and put it on the seal coat rig so I can seal coat at night and see everything, see the area or whether you're paving at night. You can put it right on your paver. We got a paver now. So I'm probably build a mount and just swap that thing back and forth or buy two. You might need this device. So hop over to portable lightingsolutions.net and put an order in and find yours today. They are ARA members, APWA members and Women of Asphalt members as well. Once again, that's portable lightingsolutions.net but now once I got there there was a fear that I was going to go back and it's literally just been there. And it's always there. It's literally like, I feel like at any moment, it could just all unravel and fall apart. And I'm just like, well, that's illogical to think, because I've been doing this 20 some years now. I just did 23 quotes yesterday, but even if I get half of them, we're gonna be pretty busy. I don't know why it's there, but it's. It's like you said, it's just in there. It's a good thing and it's a bad thing because it makes me insecure about some things. So it keeps me doing what I need to do and should do to push.

[A]

You know, I think there was a. There was a. I was listening to a podcast the other day, and I want to say it was. It was with Ed Milette, and he said his. His default character, more or less, is insecure. He feels like he is never enough. Like he's never met. And the guy. The guy asked with every. What else do you need? With everything you've done, with everything you have, with, you know, how well known you are, how much you impact people? He was. I don't need more things. It's up. It's up here. It's a mental game, and that's what it is for me. I don't need anything more in my life. Yeah, there's things I want, sure, but I don't need anything to feel fulfilled.

[C]

I have.

[A]

I have two great kids. I have a wonderful wife for over a decade. I have a fantastic team that has supported me and built or been built around me. I don't need more things. It's up here.

[C]

Yeah. I think that's the thing, is people are like, is that. Am I okay? Okay, like, well, if you knew that we all are feeling that, you'd be like, oh, cool, I'm okay. But, man, when you're in your own head or you're only in your own bubble, you don't feel that way. You feel like something is up with me. And, like, sadly, I say this almost every podcast episode. What we see on Instagram or wherever shows a complete different reality than what actual everyday life is. Right. So you always are dealing with that combative thing of like, well, my life don't look like that. My life don't look like that. Even though it does. If we just would post those things. It does, right? I felt like yesterday I posted a picture of the Range Rover, and I'm like, dude, I never post a picture. I've posted One picture of the ranger.

[A]

I was gonna say, man, that's a nice looking rig. I saw that yesterday.

[C]

I posted one picture of that before right when I got it. But it was like, dang, I could just post that all the time. Like I could post that, post the trucks. I could post like where we are when we're out. Like you and I, we've been to some cool places together. Wherever Nikki and I go somewhere, whatever. But that's a fake reality, right? That's why I just post everything. I just post all of it because I'm like, dude, I don't want to be that guy. That'd be like, it's almost like lying to somebody and then it causing detriment in their life. I'm like, I don't want to be part of that. That's a huge consensus. And I get that I'm probably a grain of sand on a beach if I do that, but still, I'm still shitty ass grain of sand. So I'm like

[A]

the. One of the biggest problems with that. You talked about the. You know, the hardest thing talking about being the self doubt is I felt, I felt broken. I felt like, hey, this is not normal. I have to fix it. And so I, I buried it. I shut it. I buried it and said if I'm gonna be at the time, if I want to be the best, if I want to be what I considered the boss. This, you, you can't have this. Shut this down. And so I buried it down. And the problem is I buried everything down. I wasn't there. Who I should have been for my, my wife and kids. I could, I would say that now this is probably 2022 in one of our single hardest years at the company. My first year as general manager where I led the team to our biggest financial loss ever. And I just, I completely turned into a robot. I completely shut down.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And 2023, after admitting, after a very long reflection on my part and admitting I, I was the problem, I said I'm going to fix it. But it also meant that I had to let go of 66 employees in

[C]

order to fix it.

[A]

And there is nothing more humbling than having to let go of two thirds of your team.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you failed them the year before. And I get the opportunity to stay.

[C]

Yeah, it was tough.

[A]

And 2023, I dedicated myself to trying to fix it. The problem is I had no way still of processing this, processing the issues. So I dove headfirst into fixing it. And I wasn't mentally there. I wasn't Ready with how to actually process the. The struggles. And it nearly broke me.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I started. I was drinking. Did it too much. I was. Did it break me?

[C]

Yeah. Like, did you become somebody different than who you were before, after it?

[A]

So in. I would say in. In 2021 and 22, when I was pushing to be in this position, I had become somebody I wasn't. I had shot to become somebody. The stigma. I thought you needed to be the boss. In 2023, I went back to trying to be more like myself, but I just wanted to fix everything. So I dove headfirst into all of it. Every detail, every weed, everything you could think of. But unless you're mentally prepared to handle that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I still wasn't willing to necessarily admit mentally to myself.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I got. Humble yourself. And it sucked.

[A]

Did you know I almost walked away from the industry entirely at the end of 2020, 23? I. I went into the. I had a meeting with the owners and said, I'm done. I can't do this anymore.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And they said, take the weekend, and take the weekend. And I took the weekend. I wrote. I wrote quite a bit that week, that weekend, trying to dissect why. Came back in on Monday, and I wrote a quote on my. On my whiteboard. I don't know if I came up with it, but I take credit for it.

[C]

I do that all the time.

[A]

Change your mindset, change your outcome.

[C]

Oh, I started that quote.

[A]

Yeah. And I have. I said I was letting everything else control me, and I had to take control of what was going on, and if I wanted to fix it, I had to fix it.

[C]

Was that the first time. Was that the first time you think you actually took control of what's inside? Is that the first time you kind of. You think they looked at it and was like, hey, all right, I'm gonna take the wheel now. Now I have.

[A]

Like I said, I've worked out for over a decade. That's always been my. My. My fix, my. My release, you know, whatever it is, you know, so that's. I've always had that habit to help me. But, yes, I would say the first time I truly said you. I can control situations. That's what I do. Well, I can control. Which is also probably the problem. I probably tried to control everything too much, but I can control, you know, the. How the job gets done. I can control the situation with a customer. I can do that. It's the first time I really tried to control here.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was. It's. It was Real man. It was a big did you have to ego death?

[C]

A lot of stuff there. Like did you, is there parts of that where you had to just squash that and kill that and was just like, yeah, that part of me is done.

[A]

I, I, it's funny because I had a 20 in 2021. We sent out a peer evaluation at work and had everybody about everybody evaluate other people.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And mine came back basically with I wish he, you know, I wish she didn't have such a big ego. She wasn't so self centered. And I go, I'm like, this is where I go. Men who I think I am. I now ask people, you know, hey, do you know who you are? And they say yeah, yeah. I go, do they think the same? Because I am my, my character is insecure. I'm the most humble person I know up here. But it wasn't coming across that I was almost trying to force it, to hide it, that it came across as self centered and, and having an ego. So I think it was more the hardship of did you, you did it to yourself. You, you displayed, you faked an ego for no reason why?

[C]

For yourself to tell yourself that you're the guy I used to be. £300. 297 to be exact. And if you're around me at asphalt or construction expos or in my circle, you remember that Marvin. I'm not him anymore. I've all but eliminated the choices that got me there in the first place. And I'm down about £100 over the last few years, all from making better choices. I know it's hard in our industry to find time and that those gas station stops are way too convenient. But we in our industry aren't getting enough of what we need to live healthy and stay productive with those choices. Choices being our constant. Besides prepping my own food, I choose foods and supplements from first form to help me get to where I need to be, along with a regular exercise routine. You've seen my posts over the last few years about using First Forms products to get what I need into my body on the road and keeping out excess of what I don't need or want. I use at least one first form product every day to ensure I stay on track. I've worked way too hard to let this slip. If you use the link in the episode description, you can will get free shipping on orders over $75 from first form today. If you reach out to me personally via DM or email, I would love to tell you about what I use and my Experiences using First Forms products. So we kind of went over it, I guess, like, that's how for forcing to turn and look at those things and tackle those things. That's how you overcame. That's how you overcome that. It's not. I mean, we're overcoming. Doesn't necessarily in that situation mean it never happens or you don't deal with it ever again? It's just figuring out how we deal with this. Right. Like, I. I've been pretty candid that I take. I use better help for therapy. I got session next. I got session next week with my guy, Dr. Sapp. That is just an ongoing thing. It's not like he's like, hey, you're cured. Like, that is the cure, right? Is keeping up and being able to tell him. And I feel. And I. I feel bad to divert a little bit because, like, Nikki will be like, what do you talk about? Do you talk about me? It's like, yeah, well, why don't you just talk to me about me? I was like, nah, you know what? I'm still that smart kid that figured out that at 11, 12 years old, what he should and shouldn't do. There's some things about you I can't talk to about you that I gotta talk about somebody else about. Yeah, I think. I think there's ways to come over. So what about you? Like, how. How did you. How do you tackle that?

[A]

I guess the. The lesson that I would take away from all of that and what it's really helped me understand is, and especially with that quote I. I shared is there is always another angle. There's always another perspective. And that has helped me in so many ways of understanding that it's not. I'm just a small piece. My perspective is just a tiny. Like you said, a grain of sand on a beach. Everybody at the team, everybody, all the customers, all the inspectors, everybody in the industry, everybody around you has a different perspective, which one, makes it extremely difficult to lead people, but two makes it fun because that's what makes us human. And learning how to navigate each perspective and actually being curious to. Oh, man, Marvin, why do you think that way? You know, Tell me. It's not a, hey, man, why don't you think like me? It's. Honestly, why do you think that way? Yeah, because I want to know what makes you. What formed that to me, and it's so fascinating. I've become. I've become addicted to finding out how people think and why people think a certain way.

[C]

Yeah, because it's.

[A]

It's fun. I love having one on ones with our team because I'm like, what? You thought that I was not telling you this because I was mad at you? What? Why? I'm like, I lean in, tell me

[C]

more, you know, well, and then, and then it starts to go down. Like you start to find the root causes, like for some of these things. And it might be something completely outside of, outside of work, you know, or outside of anything. I think what we're talking about is you spend so much time in the forest and then you get to get out of the forest, right? And you're like, oh, that's. It goes from there to there and it's made up of this tree and that tree and this is how it really looks. But when you're in it, you don't really get to see that much. And then the next level is you go up and get that 10,000 foot view, right? So then you're like, oh, okay. You start to see both sides of the coin, right? And you're like, oh, okay, I was this way. I want to be this way. I am starting to be this way. I'm letting go of some things. This is why I thought that way. So I think once you do that self reflection of like, this is why I thought that way. And you start to be like, okay, I give myself some forgiveness and some grace on. That's how I used to be. And that's because I was ignorant to this or I was immature to this, or this is how I thought. And I was influenced by this for most of my 20s was because of what I was influenced from 1 to 20 years old. And then I spent early part of my 30s unraveling all that and realizing I was a product of my environment. And I, I embodied that, to be honest with you. Self reflection for me has just been the key. It's the key to balancing everything out. It's the key to, you know, like you said, I want to control things, but my grip's a lot more loose now, right? Like, I, I'm okay with some stuff, getting some scuffs and dings and whatnot, because that means that my people who I care about are learning like I learned right along the way. That's why I let Eli make some mistakes, man. Like, I don't know how to make the detrimental ones, but I let him make the mistakes. I let them experience it and try to figure it out because I know that's how I learned. And like, it's kind of like somebody trying to tell you about skydiving. You don't know how cool it is until you actually go try it. The same thing with mistakes, like, you don't really realize the implementation, the implications of it until you do it. Then you're like, oh, yeah, I don't want to taste that. So I, I think about those kinds of things, but those are lessons. So learning that, like, in. In the grand scheme of things, can you tell us one thing or tell us something that life has taught you? My big thing I've been saying now, I've been saying a couple of them. One is don't. Don't take everything so serious. I. I did that for a long time, man. I really messed a lot of stuff up. Taking it so serious, you grip waist too tight. The thing you care about so much, you grip it so tight, you break it. And it's like, well, that's counterproductive, what we want to do. And the other thing is, I tell everybody, just pack light. Like, don't carry all that stuff with you, man. It's really hard to maneuver and go where you want to go when you're carrying everything right. You're talking about running your marathon. Imagine carrying tons of weight on your back trying to do that. It's going to be really hard. I'm a big Mike Posner fan. Mike Posner is like one of my, like motivational guys. Even though he tries not to be, but kind of is, but kind of isn't. And just seeing his whole transition position, but watching him scale Everest and tons of other mountains, like, I can't imagine trying to climb that mountain with double the weight that you really need to be able to do it. Like, you, you carry so much from your past or whatnot with you. It's really hard to get to where you are trying to go. And if you take everything really, really, really serious, we've seen people who are way too careful to screw up. Imagine seal coating, paving, right? The loot guy, if he's way too rigid, it don't work. You gotta have some sauce, gotta loosen up a little bit, let it hang in your hands a little bit sometime and just pull the top rock off. Don't score it. Tell us a little bit about what life's taught you. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I'm gonna start. I want to finish up real quick. I just want to touch on when you were talking about reflection.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

One of, One of my. Ha. One of my habits that I have come to find is one of my favorite is writing. And I never did it. And it's. For me, it's Handwriting, it's not typing. It's got to be handwritten. I got to. Actually, that's how I process it. But it. I have, you know, I have the gratitude journal, and then I also have a wide journal. And that one is more just when I'm truly understanding, you know, what did I do wrong? Why did this situation go wrong? I write down the situation and I just write, why?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think about it and I write on it until. I'll write 25 different answers down until I'm like, oh, that's the one. That's where it went wrong. It's just my way of processing it, really trying to understand, like I said, the perspectives. That's a big angle for me.

[C]

But as far as what, I'm putting band aids on stuff, right? We know you're not putting band aids on stuff like you're doing surgery. I guess I tell people, like it when you do that. I do that a lot through meditation and self reflection. And I feel bad for the people around me, especially Nikki, because she's like, you're closing me out now. I'm digging in here and figuring something out. Like, I'm doing surgery because there's a. This. I'm limping and have been limping for years because something's up with my knee. I got to go in there and figure it out, get the stuff out, fix this thing up so that I can walk right again. I'm using a metaphor there to where, like you say with writing, we're opening up, we're cutting in, doing some surgery and figuring out what actually is a thing along. Well, it could be this, could be this, could be this. Then you're looking. It is that. That's why.

[A]

Why is the most underrated question that we. We rarely ask enough.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's got. It's. It became a buzzword of, like, tell me your why. I was like, well, that's maybe why I do all this stuff, but why do I react this way? Why did I choose this over that? Like that you can choose why. To go a lot of different ways.

[A]

Oh, life lessons. Boy, that's a good one. Again. I probably. I probably got two. The first one would be, you overachieve

[C]

every answer with him.

[A]

I know, I know. Sorry. It's hard to narrow them down, man.

[C]

No, that's why they're so broad. They're designed that way.

[A]

Be yourself. That would be the number. Probably the number one lesson. That's. A lot of my life growing up has been dictated by the fear of what Others thought of me so I would change, you know, what I wore, how I acted, who I hung out, who I dated, whatever it was based on this perspective. Perception, excuse me, of what I thought other people thought. And when I became, you know, when I was like, oh, I want to be the boss, I want to be a leader, it was, oh, this is what I think it needs to be. Well, that's not me. That's not who I am. I like to wear Hawaiian shirts on Friday. I like to joke. I like, I like to make people laugh. I don't mind being the class clown at times. I want to be friends with the guys I work with. I have a team. There's a line I have to balance of. I have to hold you accountable. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to be friends with you. I still want to be. I'm a social person. I thrive under social environments and I want that. And to me, it's to hell. If that's not the stigma, that's who I'm going to be and that's how I'm going to lead the team. Because I'm the team is better when I lead it based on who I am.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you know, nobody's gonna on under that note, nobody's gonna judge you harder than you judge yourself, so nobody really cares.

[C]

I, I think I agree with that at a certain point. I think if you're self aware and self reflective, that's a true statement. If you're not and you don't give a, you're gonna get judged pretty hard by other people and you're not gonna give a whether what they think or really, or really what you think about yourself. There's a certain level of responsibility you hold yourself to, and if you don't at all, I don't think you really judge yourself all that much. But if you do like we do, you judge yourself a lot. And I, I know I, I know I do. So I think that just depends on your character really. Even before I had a discount code partnership with Brunt workwear, which you can find in the description of this podcast, I was wearing their boots when patching or paving and their shirts and hats when I was out on date night with Nikki. I'm actually wearing one right now. Seriously though, half my closet is Brunt workwear at this point. I have three sets of boots, two marins and a pair of the Omans, as well as a green shevelin hoodie that I love. It's got a snake on it. It actually Has a pocket where it keeps my cell phone there in the front. I love that about it. And it took the place of my winter jacket last season. To check out their full line, go to bruntworkwear.com and use code MJOLS10 to save $10 off your first order of $60 or more. And I think some people don't realize character is a choice. You can choose to have character. Do you choose to have character? Right.

[A]

I have a. I have a. I don't know if it's. I tend to have a very different perspective when it comes to character, and sometimes people argue it, and it is. I don't believe that you can change your character.

[C]

You really.

[A]

Yes. So this is. Now hear me out first. I believe everybody has a default character, and that's like, my. My default character is insecure now. I have my default character of who I am, and I have the character of the person I want to become.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Now, even though I don't believe that default character ever goes away.

[C]

No.

[A]

But I can choose yes to. I have the choice to choose to go towards the person I want to be.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

That never changes who I am. Yeah.

[C]

So here's the thing. I got buddy. I don't give. I don't give a. I'll say his name. His name's Adam. He's pretty. He's arguably on and off, my best friend. He's a 100. If the. If society fell apart and, like, you didn't, there was no. Like, you have to do this in order to, like, get by in society. He'd be a 100. He still cares about you, but you're gonna hear about it. He's gonna say some in front of everybody else, and he's. But he chooses to let very little of that shine through. He chooses to have character outside of that regularly. That's how I know there's some people who don't choose it, and they let that default be the full spectrum, and you don't have to do that. Like, you. There's no way you can tell me that somebody can't help but be in an. In the full capacity all day. I don't believe that you could literally.

[A]

Don't.

[C]

Don't just say it. Don't say that to somebody. You. You. You're throttling back, and you're having character.

[A]

Then. Now. Now 10 years from now, you might be able to tell me that I might have a completely different perspective on this, but right now, in this moment, right now, it's. The default character is what you do instinctively. The character I choose when I, you know, oh, you've got to go have this conversation with this person. Well, no, I don't want to do that. That's my default character. And then it's, I'm highly aware when I'm highly aware of the choice I'm making. That's me speaking to the other side. That's me saying, okay, I need to do this because this is what's best for the team. Not what I want, not what he wants in here. The other one is to work harder, harder on yourself than you do your job. And Dan Martell said that one. And it is something I have truly pushed. It's not, it's not selfish. It's not selfish to take time to work on you. And if you work harder on yourself, you will show up better for your team. You will show up better for your wife, your kids, your family, your friends, your work team, whoever it is. But you got to put the work in. Yeah, you got to work harder on yourself if you're going to be able to show up for them.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. I feel like, I feel like you can't. That's a good one. I feel like you can't get to where you want to go if you're just not in the capacity. If you're not able to do it. We can't haul, we can't haul 20 ton on a 1 ton dump truck again. Ain't gonna work, bro. Right. We gotta build, we gotta build something that can haul that if we're gonna do that. Yeah, I tell people that. Right. But my default might be a single axle that can only haul a ton. That's my default. And if I never do anything else, that's all I'm going to be able to do. But I know what it takes. I could throw another axle on that bad boy. We could just shift. We could, we could get into something bigger. But you have to want to build it and do it. I, I think about that a lot. When we talk about you and I talk about BB and you talk about your, your first year, 100 employees. That's putting too much tonnage on a truck that ain't built for it. Right?

[A]

Oh, I wasn't, I wasn't ready. None of us were, none of us.

[C]

What it was doing in that head of steam. I wasn't ready. I just kept saying, yeah, bring it, dump some more in, right? We got a paper to put it down. Yeah, put it down. We're just gonna chain, drop it and let it drip. Yeah, yeah. So let me ask you this, you're, you're very aware of yourself now. You and I are both very self aware. We were very reflective. We understand by looking back on the history of our lives, how we got to the point where we are now, the good, the bad, everything along the way. I don't know, I never, I never really say mistakes anymore. I don't feel like, hey, mistakes I made, I learned from all that and it made me who I am now. And for the most part I like who I am now. So it's like, well, I didn't, they're not really mistakes. Like those are just reasons, right, of why I am here now. But it makes me think a lot about Eli because I Look at Eli, 14 now, we think about something similarly that I did when I was 14 and some things we, we don't think about at all. The reason he doesn't think about some of the things that I thought about at 14 is because he doesn't have to, right? He's, he had a life created for him by me where he doesn't have to do that. Alternatively, he's experienced things that I didn't experience at 14. So therefore he thinks about things that I didn't think about and I have to be aware of that. But at the same time he was with us at paybacks, right, when you and I were there, light years ahead of where I was at 14 in that regard, right? You want to know what I was thinking about 14, PlayStation and females, pretty much, right? I don't get me wrong, he thinks about those things, but he thinks about a lot more too. Funny how all guys have that default at 14. But it makes me think about key things that I know now that man, I wish I could have grasped sooner and that I would have been aware of a lot sooner and fully understood sooner. And I believe I could have if I would have been mentored either by my father or whoever in that capacity. And I think the same thing about Elizabeth, right. I'm a guy, Elizabeth's going to be dealing with. Guys, Elizabeth's going to be 16 this summer. So we're really talking about the future, right? And what to expect and how, what the standards you should hold yourself to and how to prepare for life. So I always ask this question because I'm just get so curious. You have two children, right? You got two. Yep, they got two children. If there's something that you could,

[A]

that

[C]

you knew, a concept or a lesson or a trait or an understanding that you knew they would grasp, right?

[A]

Fully

[C]

in the way that they could apply it to their life if they needed to and wanted to. What would that be? And that would really sink in. What would that be?

[A]

You know how there's literally so many answers to this? You get one.

[C]

You get one.

[A]

I would get one. I want three.

[C]

No, one. One. You have to pick one. Oh, I knew you were going to do that.

[A]

See, I'm still going to say all three.

[C]

I'm stuck.

[A]

Face to face is always better. That is the one old school way of communication that I don't think will ever, we will ever lose and get better at. Never underestimate the power of a face to face conversation.

[C]

Why? Why? What's it do?

[A]

That I'm a big, a big believer in energy that you put off energy and when you're in a room with somebody you can feel their energy over. There's a wide range but they'll say anywhere from 65 to 90% of what we say is non verbal. And even through here now where you and I, I can't see your whole body and there's, there is so much that is said face to face that's not said. That it's powerful. It's a sign of respect. It just, there's, it's a connection. It's a connection of, of human to human, you know, interaction. Then I think the biggest reason I say that is it's going away. You know, I teach, you know, I talk to a lot of. We have, we're very, we're a very young company. We have a lot of guys. Gen Z's 18 to 22 years old. I talk at the, I'm working on getting set up to talk with the high school kids in the CTE programs and stuff like that. And a lot of it is based around communication. You know, I've had guys here who will only communicate via text. Well, that's great. If I'm going to send you a strictly a piece of information, cool. I'll shoot you a text. But if I want to communicate, and I mean really communicate, that's right here. That's face to face where I can look you in the eyes and I can feel your energy. Yeah, if I only get one, that's the one.

[C]

It means something.

[A]

It does.

[C]

Yeah, it means something is essentially what you're saying. Like it means something, right?

[A]

It does. I, I was privileged enough to spend up. Now I've been in the industry almost 15 years and majority of that time has been spent with the older generation baby boomers as mentors where they Taught me the power of face to face. Hey, don't make that call. Drive over to that job site and go speak to him face to face. Why? Because it's harder. Because you have to truly think about what you're saying and you have to truly live in your fear to say it face to face. You can send a text and be passive aggressive all you want. Go try it face to face with somebody.

[C]

Yeah. See how the same. Yeah, there's a, there's a dance that happens, right?

[A]

And I'm gonna, I'm a couple this. It ties into my. It ties in.

[C]

Sure it does. Go ahead, Bryce,

[A]

smile. That is, it's the most simple piece of advice I could ever give to anybody and the one I would give to my kids. And honestly, they have, they both have a smile that absolutely lights, Lights me up and lights everybody up. But when you're face to face with people, when you're in a room with somebody, smile. You have no idea the impact a smile can make on somebody's day and somebody's life.

[C]

All right, go ahead, hit me with the third one.

[A]

If you try to hide it, the truth will come out. And if you hide it for too long, it will bury you. That's the self doubt for me. If you, if you bury, your struggles will break you. Find a way to process it, find a way to express it, find a way to communicate with it. Communicate it to somebody. It's. I don't even know how to describe the level of importance that has been for me of being able to. Actually it's one thing to admit it and say, oh, hey, I've got self doubt issues. It's another to process and understand why and say, okay, well if I'm going to change it, how am I going to change it?

[C]

That's the big part.

[A]

Or you know, if I'm going to. The reason that, the reason I started, you know, the foundation group and we've talked about this is the idea of, I'm not a therapist, I'm not a psychiatrist and I would never ever try to be. But I'm not scared to talk about it anymore. I'm not scared to be like, hey, mentally, this is going on, or ask the question in a zoom call to the group, hey, what's your biggest fear? Let's talk about that. Yeah, because it makes people uncomfortable. But just because it makes people uncomfortable doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about it and find a way to process it.

[C]

Yeah, that's probably why we should talk about it. To be honest with You.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

Yeah. I guess it's fun to talk about what makes you comfortable, but there's. That's not really a problem.

[A]

I was like, that's what makes us feel good.

[C]

We don't really. We all can agree on that. Pretty simply, like, the things I had

[A]

a guy, a guy I'm coaching in a. And I was on a zoom call with him last night, and he mentioned he's been reflecting and processing and he said, I realized that I hadn't coached this, you know, one of his team members enough, because you asked, have you done enough to let him go? And I said, no, I failed to coach him. And I'm like, yes, that's it. You know, that's. That is the level. Once you and I go, how does it feel? He goes, honestly, it feels really good to say that.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I said, it does. And now it's okay. Now that I. Now that I know it, how do I fix it?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And that's when the fun begins.

[C]

Yeah. That's the next step. So talking about next steps, what's the future look like for you?

[A]

We, man, all these questions. Basically, same questions wife and I talk about. We just said, what's, you know, what's the next 10 years look like? You know, we were talking about that last night. God willing, I hope to continue building and being a leader here at Central Paving. You know, as long as they're, they're willing to have to have me willing to allow me to keep failing and learning along the way. I, that is, I really enjoyed the team. I really enjoyed building it. The, the other side to that is I have found a passion in being a voice for the industry, for, for coaching, for helping make an impact. And that's a big push for what I hope to do as well. I, I recently jumped on the board, Education board with Pavex to help make a difference for how we're going to educate the next generations moving forward. I already mentioned I'm getting involved with the, the local high schools for their CTE programs to speak and teach, you know, talk to these young students coming into the industry or looking for an industry of how powerful this industry is, what the opportunities are and how you can make an impact coming out at 18 years old because you can.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And continue building the, the foundation group and the coaching. You know, I've, I've been very open with Joel and Aaron. Those are the two owners of Central Paving. That, you know, one day, that's my dream. I. It lights me up. It is my why every morning I Love, love, love to work with people and see and help see the progress. I really enjoy working with the like you said, the integrator position, becoming that person. Helping owners have enough going on, especially ones in our boat where it's. The owner is still heavily involved a lot in day to day stuff. You know, when, when they're moving in and out, they don't have time to, to work with them. But you know the system you want to train, it's the alignment and the mentality really you're looking for on how to communicate that and how to build that. And that's something that even though I have my self doubt issues, something I've gotten very good at.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I really enjoy helping companies build that alignment because that's, that's when they start winning. That's when you see the magic happen.

[C]

Yeah. There's enough resource I feel like for the owners, even owner operators that ever do. There's so many resources and coaching and stuff going on out there. Like that's, there's plenty of that. Then they're like, well most of those resources are like then we need to, for your guys, you need to do X. Well dude, they're so busy trying to focus on themselves as the owners. Like there's no, there's no assistance there, there's no guidance there. Right. I think what you're talking about and what you do is very highly needed and literally key. Right. There's a few people like yourself that I can point to in the industry that do it. Well, it's either because of previous training where they were in a like a paramilitary organization where like that's the way things go, that they naturally have an instinct for it. But other than that like there's, there's not a lot. And dude, owners saying you need to do this is the worst damn thing there is. Like it literally, it's like dude, that's, you need to do this. And now I got to go over here. It's like, no bro, that that's not going to work for them. Like you're literally just throwing it on them saying be this person now.

[A]

You know, my fear of, you know, what others thought of me actually heightened my awareness to trying to understand, okay, what do the owners want, what does the customer want, what does the inspector want that you almost become. It's like a, it's like a spidey

[C]

sense, you know, you become highly aware ownership mindset. Like it's a. Right. And that's what anybody who's an owner and has a gm, they Want them to feel that way. I'm fortunate enough to have Kyla. You, I think you met Kylie and unfortunately, and Kyler's in the process and learning. Right. And whatnot. And understanding it. Right. And trying to adapt to the certain things that I need. You need a partial ownership mindset and then you need to let the owner run free and do what they do while you take care of integrating everything right. And making it all work and function. So I'm really excited about that. I'm really excited for the foundation group and for you to keep learning. Like, no one's expecting you to know everything right away. They're expecting for you to do what I kind of did with bb. You. You bring people in, you learn as they learn. Right. And you just happen to have awareness because you're in the position doing the thing. And that's what people have the expectation of, is that we get to see you grow and grow along the way and we get to learn. I think that helps out a lot versus and also it gives you a little bit of slack too. Like when we were in bbsg, when I screwed up, everybody's like, oh, well, yeah, we know. Like Marvin don't know. Like, like, obviously you're gonna screw up a little bit sometimes. So it takes a little bit of that pressure off and lets you be a human, which to me feels fantastic. And I've seen that a lot, especially with your growth over the last couple years, now that we've got to know each other very well. And that's a relieving feeling because gives me as a friend, it gives me a sense of Bryce is going to be human, like he's going to be a human in it and realize, hey, I'm might be slacking over a little bit here, a little bit there. And what's important still stays important in your personal life and whatnot as well. So I'm really thankful for that, man. Thanks for joining me today. Thank you. Conversation man. You give a unique perspective at a different position within a business, within our industry. I think that you get to speak to it personally, which is fantastic. Yeah. I mean, sharing your thoughts and experiences with us. I know that that's a candid thing that we don't often ask for in our industry. Everybody wants to hear what's cool and sexy going on at Central Paving, how many ton you put down, what the numbers look like, how many rigs you got, how many people people you got, who you fired, who you kept, how many awards you won, all that stuff. But without all the other stuff. That stuff don't even happen, so it doesn't really make sense. Right. I'm thankful that you shared the other side of the coin with us today, my friend.

[A]

I thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

[C]

All right, so for myself here in still cold Wisconsin and oh, we got two W states, Wisconsin, Washington, they're both kind of ready in line. I think they're, they're both cold. So for myself here in Wisconsin, for Bryce over in Washington, we appreciate you sticking with us and as always, stay in the mix. Peace.

[B]

Thanks for hanging out with us on in the Mix. For more on the world of Blacktop, head over to marvinjols.com and don't forget to follow Marvin on LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube for extra content, behind the scenes looks and industry as insights. Be sure to follow the podcast so you never miss an episode. And if you got value from today's show, leave us a well worded five star review. It really helps more asphalt pros find us. Catch you next time on IN the Mix.