Podcast Summary: "Amos Yadlin" on In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch

Podcast Information:

• Title: In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch
• Host: Rabbi Ami Hirsch, Stephen Wise Free Synagogue
• Episode Guest: Major General Amos Yadlin
• Release Date: May 23, 2024
• Description: Every other week, Rabbi Ammi Hirsch engages in intellectually honest conversations unpacking current events through Jewish wisdom and values, discussing a wide range of topics from foreign affairs to pop culture.

Introduction

In this episode, Rabbi Ami Hirsch welcomes Major General Amos Yadlin, a distinguished figure in Israeli military history, to discuss the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, its broader implications, and the future of Israel. Recorded at New York’s Stephen Wise Free Synagogue, the conversation delves into military strategies, political dynamics, diplomatic relations, and moral considerations surrounding the recent war.

Amos Yadlin: Background and Personal Ties to Kibbutz Be'eri

Personal Connection to Kibbutz Be'eri: Amos Yadlin begins by sharing his familial connection to Kibbutz Be'eri, founded in 1946 under the leadership of his father, a Labor Zionist and a key figure in establishing Jewish settlements in the Negev. Yadlin reflects on the tragic events of October 7th, where Kibbutz Be'eri suffered devastating attacks.

[02:16] Amos Yadlin: "My father was the Secretary General of the group that founded Be'eri in 1946... The irony of history is that now the people that survive are making a new settlement, temporary one, until Be'eri will rebuild in Kibbutz Hatzarim."

Impact of October 7th on Israeli Society and Politics

Shift in Political Landscape: Yadlin discusses how the October 7th attacks have shifted Israeli society's outlook, particularly among the more liberal kibbutz communities. The violence has led to a re-evaluation of coexistence with Palestinians, pushing many Israelis towards the political right. However, there remains significant opposition to the current government led by Prime Minister Netanyahu, which Yadlin describes as "extreme right."

[04:01] Amos Yadlin: "...most of the Israelis unfortunately move to the right because of what happened on the 7th of October. However, they are not willing to be under Prime Minister Netanyahu. They are looking for a new leadership that on one hand will ensure that the 7th of October will never happen again."

Military Analysis: Objectives, Successes, and Failures

Unmet Military Objectives: Rabbi Hirsch probes into Israel's initial military objectives: dismantling Hamas, returning hostages, and preventing Hamas governance over Gaza post-conflict. Yadlin acknowledges that while partial progress has been made, none of the primary goals have been fully achieved.

[07:39] Amos Yadlin: "Yeah, no doubt that the three goals were not achieved completely. They were achieved partly."

Critique of Strategy: Yadlin criticizes the original objectives as unachievable and conflicting, emphasizing the need for a revised strategy focusing on preventing future attacks and diplomatic efforts to weaken Hamas.

[26:14] Amos Yadlin: "Absolutely. And we have a very strong leverage against Hamas... you need some positive vision and define it as a victory."

Diplomatic Developments and Geopolitical Implications

Iran's Missile Attack and International Response: Yadlin highlights the defeat of Iranian missile attacks on Israel, crediting international cooperation, including support from the US, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the UK, and France.

[17:56] Amos Yadlin: "They were defeated by the fact that... Israel stopped all of them. Israel was not hurt in any important target. This is a huge achievement."

Normalization Efforts: He discusses the potential for strengthening alliances against Iran, suggesting that successful defense against missile attacks could pave the way for further normalization with Gulf states, thereby isolating Iran.

[14:48] Amos Yadlin: "...remind us to have a coalition against Iran normalization with the Saudis. In a way, Senwar, one of the reasons beside the fact that he is a jihadist that want to destroy Israel... If we do it, it's another victory that we can have."

Moral Considerations and Civilian Casualties

Ethical Warfare Practices: Rabbi Hirsch raises concerns about civilian casualties in Gaza, prompting Yadlin to defend Israel’s military operations as compliant with international law. He contrasts Israel's approach with historical events like the bombing of Tokyo and Dresden, arguing that Israel took measures to minimize civilian harm.

[26:46] Amos Yadlin: "I don't think so. I think it was according to the international law... Israel asked all the civilians to leave Gaza before it start its bombing campaign."

Responsibility of Hamas: Yadlin asserts that Hamas bears responsibility for civilian casualties by embedding military operations within civilian areas, effectively using Palestinians as human shields.

[27:42] Amos Yadlin: "Hamas is not fighting with the same rules of war that we are fighting... So Israel asked everybody to leave anything that belonged to Hamas and then launch the campaign."

Operational and Strategic Failures Surrounding October 7th

Intelligence and Policy Failures: Yadlin identifies multiple layers of failure leading to the October 7th attacks, including intelligence lapses, operational unpreparedness, and flawed governmental policies favoring a weak Palestinian Authority over a strong Hamas.

[33:53] Amos Yadlin: "There was a trilateral failure, an intelligence failure, an operational failure and a policy failure... So huge mistake on intention, also mistake on capability, on early warning."

Delayed Commission Investigations: He expresses skepticism about the establishment of national investigation commissions under the current government, citing political dependencies that may hinder accountability.

[37:35] Amos Yadlin: "Not as long as this government is."

Optimism for Israel's Future

Hope for Leadership Change: Despite the setbacks, Yadlin remains optimistic about Israel's future, drawing parallels to the post-Yom Kippur War era where leadership changes led to national resilience and transformation.

[37:46] Amos Yadlin: "I'm always optimistic... If we will be smart enough to change the objective and the goals of the war... change the leadership, we can... move Israel again back to Turk."

Potential for Youth Leadership: He emphasizes the potential of the younger generation to lead Israel towards a more secure and prosperous future, leveraging the lessons learned from the current conflict.

[37:46] Amos Yadlin: "There is huge potential of young generation and my kids who are now 40 and can lead this country and many, many good people..."

Conclusion

Rabbi Ami Hirsch and Major General Amos Yadlin conclude the episode with a heartfelt acknowledgment of Israel's challenges and the steadfast resilience of its people. Yadlin underscores the importance of strategic recalibration, moral integrity in warfare, and the hope that Israel can emerge stronger through leadership changes and international alliances.

[39:41] Rabbi Ami Hirsch: "On that note, Major General Amos Yadlin, thank you for your decades of service to the State of Israel and to the Jewish people."

Final Thoughts

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from a military and strategic standpoint, enriched by Amos Yadlin's personal experiences and expertise. It offers listeners valuable insights into the complexities of modern warfare, political dynamics within Israel, and the moral dilemmas faced in such conflicts. The discussion emphasizes the necessity for adaptive strategies, robust intelligence, and ethical conduct in ensuring Israel's security and future prosperity.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Amos Yadlin on Kibbutz Be'eri's History:
  [02:16] "My father was the Secretary General of the group that founded Be'eri in 1946..."

• On Shifting to the Right in Israeli Politics:
  [04:01] "...most of the Israelis unfortunately move to the right because of what happened on the 7th of October."

• Critique of Initial Military Objectives:
  [07:39] "Yeah, no doubt that the three goals were not achieved completely. They were achieved partly."

• Assessment of Iran’s Missile Defense Success:
  [17:56] "Israel was not hurt in any important target. This is a huge achievement."

• Ethical Defense of Israeli Bombing Campaign:
  [26:46] "I don't think so. I think it was according to the international law..."

• Identifying Layers of Failure in October 7th Attacks:
  [33:53] "There was a trilateral failure, an intelligence failure, an operational failure and a policy failure."

• Optimism for Future Leadership:
  [37:46] "I'm always optimistic... change the leadership, we can... move Israel again back to Turk."

This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the podcast episode, providing a clear and comprehensive overview for those who have not listened to the full conversation.