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- [00:00]
Amos Yadlin
Rabbi.
- [00:01]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
I'm Rabbi Ami Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York, and you're listening to in these Times.
- [00:11]
Unnamed Host
Here in the West. Since Israel turned the tables on Hamas and began its offensive, the focus has been almost exclusively on the effects of the war on Palestinians in Gaza. But Israelis see this as an existential fight. And it's bigger than just Hamas or Gaza. It goes to the heart of Western civilization as well. Major General Amos Yadlin began his 40 year military career in the Israeli Air Force as a fighter pilot. He fought in the skies during the Yom Kippur War and was one of the eight pilots selected to carry out the strike on Iraq's Osirak nuclear reactor. But more than a fighter pilot, with 250 combat missions under his belt, he is a brilliant strategist who commanded the IDF Military College and National Defense College. He served as Israel's military attache to the United States and was Chief of the IDF's Military Intelligence Directorate, a graduate of Harvard's Wexner Israel Fellowship Program, and a Washington Institute for Near East Policy Fellow. Today, he's the founder and current president of Mind Israel, Israeli national security consultancy. I've asked Major General Yadlin to join me today to help contextualize the ongoing war with Hamas and the international reaction. Amos, welcome to in these Times.
- [01:42]
Amos Yadlin
It is my pleasure, Ami.
- [01:44]
Unnamed Host
We're recording this as Israel gears up for the operation in Rafah. We've known each other for a long time, Amos. Your father was a great public servant and I heard his name in my family for many, many years. He was one of the founders of Kibbutz Be'eri.
- [01:59]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
What went through your mind on October 7th and are you close at Kibbutz Beri? That was one of the kibbutzim that suffered the most devastating consequences on October 7th. Have you been there since? Do you know people who are still members of Kibbutz Be'eri?
- [02:16]
Amos Yadlin
Yeah. My father was the Secretary General of the group that created founded Beri in 1946. It was a move by Ben Gurion to have a new 11 kibbutzim, or settlements in the Negev to make sure that when partition of Eretz Israel will happen, the Negev will be under the Jewish state. So my father led the group that went to Be'eri. He was there for five years until in the early 50s there was a split in the kibbutzim movement. So he moved to the kibbutz of my mother, which called Hazari. And the irony of history is that now the people that survive are making a new settlement, temporary one, until Beri will rebuild in Kibbutz Hatzarim. As a neighbor, my father, if he were alive, would like to see very much his previous kibbutz united with the kibbutz that he lived in for almost 70 years.
- [03:35]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Your father was a liberal? He was a Labor Zionist. I think it's fair to say that many of those kibbutzim and kibbutzniks and civilians on the border were among the most liberal of Israelis. How do you think October 7th influenced those people? That part of the political equation in terms of prospects for coexistence with the Palestinians? And what do you think about that?
- [04:02]
Amos Yadlin
See, Beri is not the most liberal, not the most socialist. There are kibbutzim like Nuz that were even more to the left, believing all their heart in a two state solution, in peace with the Palestinians. And these people were butchered, killed, raped in the most catastrophic way. So all of them are now asking themselves questions, can we coexist with the Palestinians where we understood how much they are murderers, how much they hate Israel, how much they are willing to do a genocide in Israel. These people will thinking now again after they will get out of the trauma. Not so far, by the way, what they witness, what they saw, you know, members of kibbutzim that saw their kids beheaded, young people that saw their parents and grandparents killed, burned, they will be in a post trauma situation for a long time. So politically it's not that important. It's a minority of minority in Israel. The kibbutzim movement that was 4% and leading the Israel leadership in the 50s and 60s are now 1%. And it's not important politically, it's important morally. And most of the Israelis unfortunately move to the right because of what happened on the 7th of October. However, they are not willing to be under Prime Minister Netanyahu. Right, because this is extreme right. This is a government that depends on Ben Smotrich and most of the liberals, the right wing liberals in Israel that are now getting a lot of center left people into it. They are not willing to be with the current government. They are looking for a new leadership that on one hand will ensure that the 7th of October will never happen again. Security wise they will be extreme right, but on liberal issues, on the issue of trying to reach peace, they will want peace with security and they are looking for a leader that will lead them from where we are now to a more reasonable government.
- [06:44]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
I want to ask you primarily about three the military situation, the diplomatic situation. And the internal political situation in Israel. You're a. We're a very senior and decorated commander in the Israel Air Force. You're a military expert. Tell us what your view of the current situation is. Israel at the beginning of this war laid out three objectives, none of which really have been achieved. First, to dismantle Hamas's ability to make war. Second, to return all of the hostages. And third, on the day after that, Hamas wouldn't be governing Gaza. So it looks to me like none of these objectives have been achieved. What is your view of the current military situation and the successes of the campaign as well as some of the failures?
- [07:39]
Amos Yadlin
Yeah, no doubt that the three goals were not achieved completely. They were achieved partly. And to tell you the truth, when the government put forward these objectives, I criticize them for being unachievable and some even conflicting. Because if you want to destroy Hamas and the hostages is among the Hamas, it's not that easy to destroy. If you want to bring the hostages, Hamas may survive. So these tensions were there from the very beginning. And I think Israel's strategy was as if we have all the time in the war. Once again, as independent analysts and strategists, I gave the government in the very beginning my view that they don't have all the time in the war. It is not a superpower like the US fighting Japan until unconditional surrounded, or UK and Russia fighting Nazi Germany. It's Israel against Hamas. In a very complex global situation when two superpowers are supporting Hamas, Russia and China. When the Arab world want very much Israel to destroy Hamas. However, distinguish between Hamas and Palestinians and I knew that we don't have this time. The counterargument was, look what happened in 2002 when Arafat launched his second intifada after the Seder suicide bombing in Latanya, Israel went to operation. It was two months high intensity operation getting into the Palestinian cities and the refugee camps. And then three years until terror was basically defeated to a minimal level. That is not affecting the strategic parameters of Israel. And I say it is not the same. It is not the same because of two issues. Hamas prepare an army. There was no army in the West bank in 2002. There were terrorists. Terrorists sell terrorists team, but not an army. Hamas prepare an army. And he prepared it for 15 years. And it's going to need another kind of operation. And More important, in 2002, there was not 240 hostages at the hands of Arafatir. So I think that the right goal was to make sure that hamas cannot do 7th of October again to destroy its army to a level that it cannot attack Israel anymore. If the governance of Hamas should be replaced, you have to prepare a replacement who will get into the vacuum. And the government of Israel refused to do it. They say no Hamas, no pa. I'm saying no Israel. So who will go to the Verkho?
- [11:06]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Why are they refusing to do it? Is that political? Internal political dynamics in Israel?
- [11:12]
Amos Yadlin
Absolutely, Absolutely. That's because the Prime Minister is dependent on two right wingers, the Bengville and the Smotrich parties. His political survival depends on them. And instead of taking the very reasonable terms that came from Washington, which say rpa, a reform Palestinian Authority. Because I agree that this Palestinian Authority is corrupt, is not legitimate, paying terrorists, educate terrorists and cannot even control Jenin or Tulkar. But the term Palestinian was not agreed by this government. Even if it's revised, revitalized, performance based Palestinian Authority, some Palestinian technocrats that will take Gaza with the help of an Arab consortium. Egypt, uae, Saudi Arabia, Jordan. But after seven months we haven't achieved these goals. And what have changed in these seven months that Hamas as a military basically cannot attack Israel anymore. 18 out of 24 battalions are destroyed. Israel destroyed many of their underground facilities. If they try to fire a rocket to Israel, they are unable to do it. So the 7th of October is out of a question. They cannot do it. And we should define not what Netanyahu called complete victory. We should say the victory is to bring back the hostages. There was an argument that the military operation is supporting bringing back the hostages. It was right in the first months. It was right when we were able to surprise Senora and to basically destroy all his forces in Gaza and remove a million Palestinians from Gaza. He was shocked and he was ready to return half of the hostages. It is not right today. Today the hostages should be the goal of the war. Then bring back people to the Western naked to be. Then when there will be a ceasefire in the south, there will be a ceasefire in the north. That's what Nasrallah said. When the war in Gaza is gone, I'm stopping. Then you can remove Hezbollah diplomatically by reaffirm UN Security Council 1701 that removed Hezbollah north of the Litany River. Hamos or Biden envoys to Lebanon and Israel is working on that. Then we can have normalization with the Saudis. Then we can have the coalition that have stopped so efficiently the attack from Iran based on US and Israel and some Arab countries and UK and France against Iran as the main problematic force in the Middle east that want to destroy Israel. This is another strategy than sticking to the original goals that you said, and rightly so, that are not working and unachievable.
- [14:48]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
So you think had the goals of the military campaign been defined as dismantling Hamas ability to repeat October 7th Israel by now could have already proclaimed victory in that respect.
- [15:05]
Amos Yadlin
Absolutely. And we have a very strong leverage against Hamas, which is the request of Hamas to end the war. We can now put it forward as you want us to end the war, bring all the hostages back and then it's the second goal achieved. You need some positive vision and define it as a victory. Yes. Hamas may stay there. It will be weak. We can have another opportunity to destroy. Believe me, Hamas or Islamic Jihad will give us the excuse in the future. But now we have to look at the goals of this war regionally because we are fighting in seven forms never happened since 1948. We are fighting in Gaza, we are fighting in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, the Houthis, the west bank and Iran. And we have to rearrange our priorities. We have an opportunity to have a diplomatic achievement that always come after a military campaign. And unfortunately Netanyahu government is not dealing with diplomatic moves that have to go together with the military move. And Israel has a possibility after this catastrophe to change it into an opportunity, an opportunity to have a coalition against Iran normalization with the Saudis. In a way, Senwar, one of the reasons beside the fact that he is a jihadist that want to destroy Israel, but he want also to derail the Israeli Saudi normalization. If we do it, it's another victory that we can have. Continuing with these seven months goals without rethinking and updating them is a huge strategic instinct.
- [17:10]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
The one silver lining that one can glean from the Iranian attack on Israel, those 300 plus missiles and various other.
- [17:19]
Unnamed Host
Projectiles, it did open up a window.
- [17:26]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
On some of the geopolitical victories that Israel can claim as a result of this war. I mean the idea that Saudi Arabia and Jordan and the Americans, the UK and France all participated in intercepting some of these missiles, it created a little glimpse of a tremendous victory that could emerge for Israel from this conflict. Do you agree with that?
- [17:57]
Amos Yadlin
Yes, I think the Iranians were defeated in April five times. They were defeated by the fact that a general who is almost number two in Quds Force that for 20 years was planning and building military capacities in Syria and Lebanon was targeted and removed as Qasem Soleimani was. Then the Iranians fired this barrage of missiles that were never launched. Against any country in one night, 120 ballistic missiles, 170 drones, very much like the drones that the Russians are launching towards Ukraine. And a lot of rockets from their proxies and 30 cruise missiles. And Israel stopped all of them. Israel was not hurt in any important target. And they targeted our air bases and intelligence. This is a huge achievement. Then what they were unable to do with hundreds of projectiles we did with three missiles. According to the New York Times, Israel destroyed S300, which is advanced air defense that defend their nuclear facilities around Ispahan. And they were vulnerable, they were unable to stop. And then they again for a glimpse of two or three days, the international community understand who is the aggressor and who is the defender. And they brought Israel and America once again for a week to be together on 100%, which is important. So I think this is one of the good news of this war. It is not yet over. We will test the deterrence that was achieved, if it was achieved in the next move of Israel against Iranian proxies in Syria and in Lebanon. We have to understand that this is the first direct attack from Iran on Israel and from Israel on Iran. We are in a shadow war for 20 years. But the two sides were very, very careful not to go to a direct attack and not to escalate to an open war. The last time that a country, a state that is member of the UN attacked Israel was 1991 with Saddam Hussein. Since then we are dealing only with proxies, terror organizations. And this is the first time that Iran attacked Israel since 1991. And I hope the president of Iran will end up like Saddam Hussein.
- [21:09]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Well, the ramification of that precedent is what exactly you think Iran actually did itself harm by launching this attack.
- [21:19]
Amos Yadlin
The Jewry is still out, but as we speak today it was a very.
- [21:23]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Bad moment, months for Iran with long term ramifications for the stability of the government. Do you think what we constantly hear is what these entities want more than anything else is to stay in power and that's what the Iranian government is most concerned about. Do you think that this perhaps burgeoning coalition against Iran, which might include the Gulf states and Saudi Arabia, do you think that that has long term ramifications and is it threatening for the st of the Iranian government?
- [21:59]
Amos Yadlin
I'm not sure. I think the Iranians know exactly what I describe, that they have done a mistake and they are vulnerable. However, the regime is publishing and marketing to the public another story story that they attacked Israel, that there is a lot of damage to Israeli air bases. It's a warning for Israel and what Israel have done in return is couple of small drones that achieve nothing. So this is a way that the dictatorship is speaking to their people to make sure that the regime will not be blamed by the failure. In 2007, by the way, when Israel attacked the nuclear facility in Syria and we wanted to avoid escalation, we understood that on this nuclear project there is very, very small group of people who know about it. Even the Defense Minister and the Chief of Staff have no idea. And if we will not boast about destroying this nuclear, we may avoid war of retaliation. And that's exactly what Bashar sold to to his people. That Israeli airplane were attacking an empty camp in the desert and they were removed by the brave Syrian air force and nothing happened. So what's happening today in Iran? Remind me the same story.
- [23:34]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
My last question about Iran is one of your missions was on the destruction of the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq. Looming behind all of this is the Iranian nuclear project. Where do you think that stands? How urgent do you think that is and what kind of threat does that now pose for Israel and the West?
- [23:55]
Amos Yadlin
I would add it is a very, very serious threat. But we need another podcast to dive into all the details. The Iranian strategy, since the Iranians are smart, sophisticated and they know something about strategy, is not to run to the bomb as fast as possible, but as safe as possible. They have learned the lesson of Saddam Hussein, of Bashar Assad, of Muammar Gaddafi, and they want to be very close to the bomb in the threshold as much as they can under a legitimate cover up. So they are now quite close to the capability to produce fossil material for five, seven bombers in a military grade. They haven't started yet the weaponization because this is violating the fact that they signed the npt. And this cannot go with the COVID story that the uranium is for producing power because there is no oil and gas in Iraq. So we have to look very careful whether they decide to break out of the bomb by operating a weaponizing group. There are promises of four American presidents in a row, Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden, that Iran will not be with nuclear war. I hope and I call for it in the last 10 years that instead of making speeches on the Hill and instead of fighting with the Americans, what is the right move towards Iran, we should have a common strategy. And we have to do it together, Israel and the US to define our red line, to define our trigger, to define what operationally the two of us will do and who will do what and what support the other side need. And we are sharing intelligence, but it's not enough. We have to share the strategy and the operational plan.
- [26:14]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
May ask you. I of course always concerned about Jewish morality and morality in general. You participated in 250 or so missions beyond Israel's borders. You dropped bombs on Israel's enemies. President Biden at one point called the bombing in Gaza indiscriminate. Could you help us through the moral morass? Do you think Israel has been excessive in its military operation? Do you think that the bombing has been indiscriminate?
- [26:47]
Amos Yadlin
I don't think so. I think it was according to the international law. I don't think it was more indiscriminate than the Americans operation against Tokyo in May 1945 when they burned the whole city with most of them civilians. It's much more moral than what have been done in Dresden. And if you don't want to go to World War II, go to Afghanistan, go to Vietnam, go to any American campaign. We can compare the numbers and we will see that what Israel have done in Gaza is basically in the same proportion like the Americans. However, even more on the moral issue. Israel asked all the civilians to leave Gaza before it start its bombing campaign.
- [27:43]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Do you mean not the entire Gaza Strip? You mean the area that Israel intended to bomb?
- [27:48]
Amos Yadlin
Exactly, in Gaza City. And remember, Hamas is not fighting with the same rules of war that we are fighting. On the contrary, they didn't let some of the people to leave. And all their command posts were under hospitals, schools, UNRWA offices and civilian places. So Israel asked everybody to leave anything that belonged to Hamas and then launch the campaign. And the campaign would have stopped if Senwal, who started this war, would say, okay, I'm giving back the hostages, stop the campaign. It would have been stopped. So I think war is an awful and very, very problematic moral dilemma because you have the duty to protect your people to make the 7th of October not happening again. Israel haven't go to Gaza to kill civilians. On the contrary, we would love the fact that the only victims were Hamas, but we went to Gaza, that it will never happen again. And those who to blame about the civilian casualty is Hamas. So in this respect, I would like to hear President Biden, Secretary of State Blinken blaming Hamas for what is happening in Gaza.
- [29:26]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Why do you think that message is not getting through? Or maybe it got through immediately after October 7th. But the assumption now of the west, of course, you're in Israel. I'm here the assumption even those who want to defend Israel is there've been too many casualties in Gaza. The term genocide is casually spouted in political conversation and normative political conversation even in the halls of Congress. We have these investigations in the International Court of Justice. And now there are some talk about arrest warrants at the icc. Why do you think that Israel is not able to convince not only the Western opponents of Israel who may have come from the Middle east and are Palestinian supporters and receive financial contributions from Palestinians, but just people who seem fair minded and are in the political system. What's going on in the west that they don't see clearly what you're talking about?
- [30:34]
Amos Yadlin
I'm not expert to your public opinion. It's not Palestinian money, it's Qatari money. Qatari money is buying a lot of your academic chairs and universities and anything that they can play against Israel, they will play against Israel. Once again, war is something awful. If you remember when the US withdrew from Afghanistan after 20 years. 20 years, not seven months. Americans attack and kill innocent people around their airfield. They apologize. They say that in war there are mistakes and this is happening from time to time in war. What is important that every target in Israel is approved by international lawyer and we are fighting according to the international law. The fact that we cannot convince them that senor have started this war and senor is using the Gazans as a human shield is maybe a failure of the asbara of Israel. But I think it all has to do with with a lot of Qatari money, Arab money, the tendency to look at Israel as the strong power and look at the Palestinian as the weak. Even though they initiate this war in the more barbaric, unacceptable attack on women and children and young girls and old Israelis. I think if it would happen in America, that some Mexicans will say, you know, Texas and California belong to us. You took it from us in 1848. We are now going to the city of San Diego. We are killing. I think the ratio is 15,000American and kidnapping about 4,000 to Mexico. What would America do? Believe me, nobody will say anything about what the US military will do to Mexico.
- [32:51]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Can I ask you about the conceptual and operational collapses on October 7? It looks like there were political misconceptions, military misconceptions on the strategic level, as well as operational failures. On October 7 itself, two things. One, do you think the National Commissions of Investigation will be established soon in order to investigate all of the components? I know the military is doing something internal, but it's limited. So do you think that those commissions will be established because in their absence, we will never really know what was the source of the failures, catastrophic failures. And secondly, I also want to ask you what you think already now, even in the absence of the commissions of investigation, where do you think the fundamental problems lay?
- [33:53]
Amos Yadlin
Okay. I think there was a trilateral failure, an intelligence failure, an operational failure and a policy failure. The intelligence failure is in my mind unacceptable. And I cannot imagine that it happened. The plan of the attack was in the hands of the intelligence. So they haven't paid enough attention to the plan. There was a big mistake on the intentions of Hamas. They thought in a Western thinking that Senwa is a leader that cares and accountable to his people. And he misled them. He said, welfare of Gaza is more important to me and to my people. I want them to work in Israel. I want. I want them to get the Qatari mummy. And they haven't thought that this is a jihadist, that destroying Israel is the goal and the rest is serving it. So huge mistake on intention, also mistake on the capabilities. They haven't paid attention that he created a military. They thought that if he will attack Israel, it will be on one or two places to kidnap 10 people. They haven't imagined the whole attack, even though the plan was in their head. So huge intelligence failure on intention, on capability, on early warning. And this failure was all over the community. It was the military intelligence, it was Mossad, it was Shinbell. So this should be investigated as soon as possible. Second is operation. Every operational commander should be ready to stop the enemy, even if he is not getting an early warning from the intelligence. You should be ready every day to stop the enemy. So there was some mistake in the level of the forces and the readiness. And this also should be investigated. What even more problematic in my eye, that hours, hours, 12 hours, some of the kibbutzim were left without any IDF support and help. So this also should be investigated on the policy level. Prime Minister Netanyahu decided that they will help Hamas because they hate the PA. So Netanyahu prefer a strong Hamas and a weak PA. And this is a huge mistake that happened for 10 years, a decade. And in this time he let Hamas build a military. So just last word. You have to distinguish between debriefing, which is professional and start to be done on the military side, on the operational side, on the intelligence side, not on the government side. And the commissions that you mentioned to investigate the failure, you know, the debriefing is how to do it better next time the commission has to indicate who to blame.
- [37:32]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Do you think we're close to their establishment.
- [37:36]
Amos Yadlin
Not as long as this government is.
- [37:41]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
My final question to you is, are you optimistic about Israel looking into the future?
- [37:47]
Amos Yadlin
I'm always optimistic because when I was head of intelligence, I used to brief President Peres, Shimon Perez, and he always say, amos, what you are describing is grave scenarios and dangers to the state of Israel. I have recommendation for you. The optimist and the pessimists are dying the same, but they live differently. So be more optimistic. And I think if we will be smart enough to change the objective and the goals of the war, to change our government for a government that is hostage to right wingers, that paralyze it and continue to take it to the wrong direction, we can, as we did after Yom Kippur. And I'm a veteran as a young pilot of Yom Kippur war. And it was a trauma very similar to this one, even not that bad, by the way. But it took a decade and we learned the last lessons. We changed the leadership and we have made Israel different. This is what Israel should do after finishing with this war, taking the opportunities that I describe in this conversation, change the leadership. And going forward, there is huge potential of young generation and my kids who are now 40 and can lead this country and many, many good people, because this war, after discovering all the failures, also discover bravery, solidarity, a lot of spirit, positive spirit, that with the right leader, can move Israel again back to Turk.
- [39:42]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
On that note, Major General Amos Yadlin, thank you for your decades of service to the State of Israel and to the Jewish people. Thank you for giving us this time and we wish you and all of our brothers and sisters in Israel well.
- [40:06]
Unnamed Host
I've spoken with hundreds of Israelis since October 7, both here and in Israel. And of course, I have interacted with thousands of American Jews and non Jews. It is fascinating to me to see how differently our communities cover and view this war. In the west, the focus on the October 7th atrocities dissipated long ago, roughly around the time Israel began its offensive against Hamas. After repelling some 1500 terrorists from Israeli territory. We seem to have forgotten the precipitating massacres and kidnappings. And our almost exclusive focus for months now has been on the effects of the war on Palestinians in Gaza. It is, of course, legitimate to emphasize the human cost of war. I too am torn apart by Palestinian suffering. Like the removal of a drop of wine from the Passover Seder Kiddushka, every day of Palestinian anguish diminishes my joy of being alive. Jews are described in our tradition as Rahmanim b'nai Rahmanim Merciful ones, the children of the merciful. With everything else we hold in our hearts, we must keep abundant space for the suffering of innocent Palestinians in Israel. However, and for many of us Jews abroad, we know that the anguish of Gaza is not the only moral or geopolitical issue at stake. Hamas imposed on Israel a war of no choice. It is an existential war against Islamist forces who seek not only Israel's annihilation, but the destruction of the West. The only reason that 1,200 Israelis were slaughtered rather than 12,000 or 120,000, is not in intent but in capacity. The terrorists were stopped by the most courageous acts of civilian and military valor. Thousands of people are alive today because of regular Israeli civilians and security personnel, some of whom were no older than American university students, others who were in their 50s and 60s, who rushed to the scene and on their shoulders held the sky suspended. I watched a documentary recently on the Battle of Normandy. What most of us remember is D Day, June 6, 1944, and the horrible price paid to establish beachheads on the shore. Few of us realized that the Battle of Normandy took nearly three months. German forces were arrayed in defense lines fortified over many years, and they were embedded in the local population. In the 85 days it took to liberate Normandy, an estimated 20,000 French civilians died and many thousands more were wounded and dislocated. The Allies bombed French villages, pulverizing them to rubble. It was the only way to loosen the death grip of Nazi forces. Nobody asked then, nor do they ask today, why the Allies caused the deaths of so many thousands of French villagers. To the contrary, there are still annual celebrations of the liberation and eternal gratitude to America. They realized then and they understand now, that war is awful and causes us to kill and that innocents die and suffer in war. It is why all who care about fellow human beings should do everything in their power to avoid war in the first place. Once a war is launched, it will inevitably result in death and destruction. And the more dangerous and the more extreme is your enemy, the more ferocious the war will be. What did they expect? That Israel would not defend itself from the worst pogrom inflicted on Jews since the Holocaust? What did they expect? That no innocent civilians would be killed? Especially since Hamas hides behind their own population, using them as human shields. Can you imagine how much international money, including our own tax dollars, were invested to build a tunnel system under Gaza that is more elaborate than the London Underground? Can you imagine how many people must have known about it? How Many workers it took to build this monstrosity. Practically every hospital, school, playground, mosque contained openings to tunnels and weapons inside. What a tragedy, not only for Israelis, but for Palestinians too. With all those billions of dollars flowing into Gaza, it could have been transformed into an oasis of peace and prosperity. A veritable Singapore on the Mediterranean October 7 revealed to Israelis, Jews and all fair minded people that genocidal forces seeking the destruction of Israel are arrayed a mile away from Jewish villages. Where you stand on an issue is often determined by where you sit. If you sit in an Ivy League classroom, you perceive threats differently than if you were a mile away from genocidal murderers. The henchmen of Hamas didn't ask the political views of those they butchered and kidnapped. If the most fervent peace activists, Jews or non Jews, even anti Zionist BDS activists, happened to have found themselves in one of those Israeli villages on October 7, they too would have been slaughtered, as were many Israeli peace activists living in those border communities. Amos Yadlin reminded us that in Israel they view this as an existential war imposed on Israelis. While they were sleeping at 6:30am after a night of celebrating Shabbat and the festival, rejoicing in life, communing with families and dancing at concerts, no Israeli woke up on October 7th saying to himself, how can I conquer Gaza today? Or how can I harm Palestinians today? The opposite, as it turns out. Thousands of Gazans woke up on October 7 to massacre, gang rape, pillage and murder Jews, men, women, children and babies. And they were so deliriously proud of what they did, they filmed themselves, something even the Nazis didn't do. The Nazis tried to hide their crimes. This is the broader context. It is a struggle that involves Israel most acutely because Israel is on the front lines. But if they defeat Israel, they will come for us in Europe and America. They represent the same ideology that perpetrated 9 11. You can see that clearly in the actions of some of their American supporters who burn American flags and shout death to America. The road ahead will be difficult and painful. Years of healing await us for all of our Jewish listeners. Keep the faith. We are not the first Jews, only the latest Jews. We have seen all this many times before. We are part of a 3,000 year old civilization, often despised, always small but great in so many ways. We are a resilient and courageous people. We are optimistic, we invest in the future. We are productive and involved in society. We will overcome and prevail. I hope that this hardship reawakens and reinforces what Israel and Judaism mean to you? I hope that you will recommit to Jewish life and renew your understanding of the preciousness of your inheritance, the gift of generations past who withstood hardships greater than ours and whose determination and steadfastness bequeathed Judaism to you. Until next time. This is in these times.