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- [00:00]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Rabbi I'm Rabbi Ami Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York. And you're listening to in these times.
- [00:11]
Bernard Henri Lévy
There is in the liberal landscape in Europe and in America, a whole part of the landscape which no longer deserves to be qualified of liberal. They are fascist or they are illiberal or they are something else world which has to be invented but not liberal. I am a liberal.
- [00:34]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Bernard Henri Levin, known as bhl, is a world renowned liberal Jewish French philosopher, author and filmmaker. Born In Algeria in 1948, he was one of the founders of the New Philosophers movement and today, as one of the West's foremost intellectuals, he passionately defends democracy and humanism while vigorously opposing totalitarianism and fascism in all its forms. BHL has covered global conflicts and the world's forgotten wars through his many books, documentaries and articles while participating in peace efforts and engaging with Israeli leaders from Menachem Begin to Yitzhak Rabin, a columnist for international publications. His he's written over 40 books, including his recent Israel Alone, published by Wicked sun, the Post Hill Press imprint that also published my latest book. And that's how I learned that. He was in New York City for a brief visit from my publisher and I asked him to stop by my office. He generously agreed and together we recorded this 30 minute conversation. Bernard Henri Lavie, thank you very much for being here. I've admired your work and your career for decades. So welcome to in these Times.
- [02:01]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Thank you to host me in this famous podcast.
- [02:08]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
You wrote a very important book just now in the aftermath of October 7th. Before we get to the book, if I can ask you just to look back at your career and you're a philosopher, you're an intellectual. The standing and status of public intellectuals in Europe and in France is different than in the United States. But what is distinctive about you, I think even in European terms, is that you're very active in social justice work, in public affairs.
- [02:40]
Unnamed Speaker
Could you just tell us your of.
- [02:42]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Course you follow current events and you're a European in every sense of the word. How would you characterize the mood now in Europe and in particular in France? Are you pleased with where Europe is? Do you think Europe is relatively tranquil or are you worried about the future of Europe?
- [03:04]
Bernard Henri Lévy
I'm really worried. I'm worried for the future of the Jews in Europe, worried for the future of the Jews, therefore for the future of Europe itself.
- [03:17]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
The status of the Jew is a sort of barometer to the health of.
- [03:20]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Europe, absolute benchmark, absolute parameter. If tomorrow the Jews were to disappear again they nearly disappeared during the Holocaust. If something like that, even in a smooth way, had to happen, it would be the end of Europe. Because the culture of Europe is so intermingled, it's so mixed with the spirit of Judaism. Europe without Judaism would not be Europe.
- [03:57]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
And France, which has the largest Jewish population in Europe. We keep on reading here that the French Jews are fearful and they feel like they're under attack and there's increasing antisemitism. Is that true?
- [04:11]
Bernard Henri Lévy
It is true. It is not hopeless, but it is big control.
- [04:18]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Is it getting worse?
- [04:20]
Bernard Henri Lévy
It's getting worse because now we have, for example, a whole political party, unless a leftist one coming from the left and even the extreme left, which is openly anti Semitic. And this is not new. It happened already one century ago, during the Dreyfus affair. We had half of the workers movement, which was anticipated. But this tradition went into the cold, into the shadow for a long time, and it is coming back. Chief of this party is called Mr. Merchant, and he's a devoted Antiscan.
- [05:06]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
I want to get to your book. It's just now published. It's called Israel Alone and It's all about October 7th and the aftermath of October 7th. Why did you title the book Israel Alone? What do you mean by that?
- [05:21]
Bernard Henri Lévy
I mean that in order to fight, to wage these fights against Hamas today, maybe tomorrow Hezbollah and in the background, Iran, Israel is much more alone in this current battle. Whatever are the mistakes of Israel? The question is not that we can speak of the mistakes also, but for the moment they are waging a battle which is a battle for all of us, which is a battle for the free world, for the values of liberty, of solidarity and so on. They are more alone than we were us, the French, when we liberated Mosul, with the Kurds and the Iraqis, and more alone that you are you Americans, when you Liberated Afghanistan in 2001, after September 11, America had a big coalition in support. France after Bataclon and Sari Hebdo had a big coalition to support Israel after Hamas, which is not really different from Al Qaeda and from isis is grown.
- [06:39]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
How do you explain that? I of course agree that this. I felt by the sundown of October 7th that as much as this was a test for Israel and the Palestinians, it eventually would be a test for Western civilization itself. I agree with that and I feel more strongly about that than I did even on October 7th. Why don't others see that? Because if they did, Israel wouldn't be alone in the way that you define it.
- [07:10]
Bernard Henri Lévy
One explanation, which is little sad but which adds it's part of truth is that we are coward. ISIS was not a big deal. ISIS was alone. There was not a coalition behind ISIS. It was just ISIS powerful Mosul, Raqqa, Al Qaeda, terrible. September 11th, a huge mass crime. But they were alone also. Hamas today is not alone. It's a reverse of what I said before. Hamas means fear for fallout and so on. But Hamas means Iran, which is really manipulate pulling the threads of Hamas. It means the Muslim Brotherhood in general, it means Russia. I give some elements of proof or at least indication in my book that Russia and Putin were not out of that game for top of seven. It means Turkey, dreamers of a new Ottoman Empire who the Saturday following October 7, just after expressed Erdogan joy, support, encouragement to Hamas. Maybe we are just afraid of this big coalition which is behind Hamas. Hamas is apparently a little confetti, a little point. It's nothing except that when you say Hamas, you say Iran, Russia, Turkey, Qatar, a Muslim Brotherhood, maybe China. We don't know. So it's a huge force.
- [09:07]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Can I ask you about. You're a keen observer of America and you love this country. You've written about your affection and your hope and your belief in the role of the United States. Do you feel that this current administration's support for Israel since October 7th was lacking in some way?
- [09:30]
Bernard Henri Lévy
It's complicated. I don't doubt the intensity of the feelings and of the personal love of the current president for Israel. I'm sure he knows Israel, he understands Israel and he loves Israel. After that, for political reasons, probably he does not do enough. I give you an example. Few days ago, the debate Trump Kamala Harris, who is for the moment, I hope she will be more. But she's the vice president. She said Ukraine has to win and will win, which I agree fully. Ukraine has to win. It's a must, it's a duty. She did not say Israel has to win. She said Israel has the right to defend. I hope so. And this is a minimum right to self defense. But why did she not say Israel has to win?
- [10:43]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Why if Western civilization itself is at stake? That was my question before too.
- [10:48]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Why Western civilization is at stake. Stability of the area is at stake. The destiny not only of Western. The destiny of the Iranian women is at stake. The destiny of the Afghan journalist is at stake. The destiny of the brave Turkish lawyers fighting against Muslim Brotherhood in Turkey is at stake. So for all these reasons, plus the survivors of Holocaust, plus the sons of the survivors are. It's an existential question for them, Israel has to win as much as Ukraine. And God knows, if I learn Ukraine, I'm a supporter of Ukraine. I directed myself on the ground, on the battlefield with my camera, three films what Ukraine saw. I love that she said that Ukraine has to win, but I regret she did not say the symmetrical Israel has to win. Hamas is as bad as Putin. And by the way, it is the same. We know that Putin knew before about the October 7th attack. We know for sure that in all the sessions of preparation of October 7, some in Beirut, some in Iran and maybe some in Moscow, people of the fsb, people, high ranking officers of the entourage, Putin who were involved with other. So it's the same. So I regret that. Of course, I don't doubt again, I don't doubt that the president and the vice president are real lovers of Israel, but they stay halfway.
- [12:48]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Yeah, you know, and I'm just trying to get to what you think is the root dynamic of that. Is it all political? And of course, we're in the midst of an election campaign and it's political.
- [13:00]
Bernard Henri Lévy
They are shy, intimidated by those who. By those ignorant, by those politically illiterate who keep on repeating that Israel is a state of apartheid, that Israel is practicing genocide and that Israel is a colonial country. Three propositions which are just stupid. I know what is colonialism. I spent all my life fighting against colonialism and imperialism. Israel is a fruit of a war of decolonization. Israel is a result of a process of fight against imperialism. The British one at that time, and even in a way the German one, which was losing the rank for Glosso. But during the 40s, there was a risk of the empire Israel fought against Paul incarnation. I know what is a genocide. I was on the ground in Darfur when I was a genocide. I was one of the first to go in Rwanda and to report about Rwanda what was a real huge genocide. I know what it is. I know the smell of genocide in Israel. There is not even the beginning of an attempt or of a project of genocide. Nobody projects except a few extreme right morons everywhere. You have this sort of guy, but nobody in the army, nobody in the real civil society even thinks of, should decide and appertained. I know what is apartheid. I've been an early militant in my country in America sometimes against the real apartheid. In South Africa it's highly the contrary. One citizen out of five belongs to the Arab minority, has all 100% of the civic rights. There is no need for Rosa Parks for a Nelson Mandela. In Israel, the Arab parties are in the parliament and they are anti Zionist and they hate Israel sometimes, almost all. But they participate in the government and they can have a judge in the super. You know, all of that. So there is in America and in France a trend nourished, nurtured by ignorance and who certainly intimidates those who want good for Israel in the bottom of their heart, but don't dare. They're wrong. Because you have to dare. When you are a politician, a woman or a man of state, you have to dare. What you.
- [16:09]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
You. In your book, you called October 7th an event. You described it as an event. And I think you drew some comparison to e.g. 9 11, which is an event that just descends on the world seemingly out of the blue or unexpectedly. Could you elaborate on that? What you mean by October 7th being an event?
- [16:32]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Something that never happened, something that nothing predicts, like a black swan in economy and something which remoulds the whole game, the future and also the past. By the way, an event with a capital E writes a new future which was not on the rails and in a way re improvises the past. An event with a capital E gives a different significance to a lot of events in the past. After October 7th we see in another light the reality of the Hamas, the reality of other Palestinian groups, the essence of the hatred which was boiling there. Some pieces of the past appear in a new light. This is an event and of course it designs a completely new future.
- [17:43]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
It's like 911 led to the invasion of other countries and a 20 year war and. And still going. Arguably you write that Israel was forced into this war.
- [17:59]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Evidently Israel committed other mistakes. Certainly we could speak of that. But Israel withdrew from Gaza 20 years before, never expected to go back and maybe certainly Israel underestimated the evilness of Hamas, of Syria Sinoad but was not ready for the war.
- [18:29]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Not sure you consider it a war of no choice. It was imposed on Israel and Israel, as you said, Israel has to win this war.
- [18:36]
Bernard Henri Lévy
What can you do when your country is invaded? When your citizens the first duty of the state is to protect the citizens. If when 1,200 of your citizens are killed, put it in the proportion of America. If it were American, you imagine the figure. And when the killer says it is just the beginning, we will repeat that as often as we can. You have the duty to protect your co citizens and you had one big enemy. Again, it's a fact. Israel never declared the war to Iran. Iran decided in the genocidal spirit that Israel has no right to exist. This is official line of Iran not of the young women who shout in the streets, women life and dignity and freedom. But their official line is that Palestine has to be free from the river to the sea, and that Israel has to be eradicated from the surface of the earth. So when the program begins to be implemented by one of the proxies of Iran, what do you do? You offer your throat to the knife or you react? Israel was compelled, it would have been a mistake not to react and it would be a tragedy not to win.
- [20:09]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
How do you define winning?
- [20:11]
Bernard Henri Lévy
I define winning by the military forces of Hamas to be broken. Iran, Russia or Turkey. They have to understand that the game is over, that Israel won. And three, all those around Israel, but also in the whole world, also in Paris, also in New York, all those who considered that the Hamas was a group of resistance. Sometimes, I'm sorry to say, but because considering that they were heroes and that it was a good way, that they were right, that peaceful ways had been unuseful, and that murder and slaughter, rape was the good way, all these people have to understand that it was a dead end. That is victory in doing so. Victory of the commanders of Hamas, victory by rebuilding the deterrence toward real enemies of Israel, and victory by telling clearly to all those who have the temptation to consider the pogromists of October 7th as heroes, to put shame on them. This is what happened in 1945 with Germany. Victory meant capitulation of the officers, but it meant also that the 50 million sol German suddenly worked on some level.
- [21:49]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
I don't think that we're that close to persuading pro. I don't even know what to call them pro Palestinians because of the reasons that you're voicing. I don't think this is a pro Palestinian view. To be supportive of Hamas and the destruction of Israel and the river to the sea and so forth.
- [22:10]
Bernard Henri Lévy
I'm not so sure. You know, I remember few days before the fall of Mosul, before Mosul was taken by the Iraqi French and the American Air Force. Few days before in Iraq, you had a lot of supporters of isis. I was there filming. Overnight, they disappeared, they cut the beard, they changed mind. They began to say. Dozens of interns began to say, no, no, I've never been isis. I was just forced terrorized, a gun on the head and so on. Now this sort of turnover happens quickly. Like in Germany, when you have, I hate war, I hate war. But when you have a war and when you are compelled to fight it, you have to win. And winning means that your enemies capitulate, even Morally that they understand that it was a huge mistake, that it was committing suicide.
- [23:25]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
And can you envision the. Again, I don't really know what to call them, pro Hamas or call them to be generous in the way they define themselves. Pro Palestinian supporters in the west and also in the west bank and in Gaza. Do you envision soon or a scenario where Israel's victory would be so overwhelming that they will drop their opposition to a two state solution to Zionism? At the root of what's driving them is their opposition to any Jewish state, not simply this Jewish state or this Jewish government or these borders.
- [24:06]
Bernard Henri Lévy
For the moment, that is the situation. And when I said that the event with capital E did shed a light, new light even in the past, I was thinking of that. We understand now that a lot of partners of Israel had practiced double thinking. And in fact, in the depths of themselves, they did not want any two state solution. They did not want survival at all. But this can change and it can change quickly. You can see again, if it proves to be that these isis, Al Qaeda, Hamas adventures are catastrophic for their promoters, for the Arab world, it can chance you can have a real awakening of people thinking new generation. At the end of the day, we were mistaken. Why not make agreement with this little country? Very little Israel, Honestly, it's like, I don't know, mostly the smallest states in America, probably two French departments is so is it so impossible that the neighbors of Israel, at the end of the day think, okay, let's agree deeply and it is not impossible. We have already some states, some Arabic states who did the process, and they did it with good heart. One country, which I know rather well, Morocco, they made umbral accords. Not by force, not by rules, not only by interest. They did it so with the heart they understood.
- [26:03]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
You know, it's inspiring to listen to you. You define yourself as a liberal.
- [26:08]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:09]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
So it's not for me to sit with a philosopher and you know, talk about the definition of liberalism, but I've always. I'm a liberal too, and I, I've considered it always a kind of state of mind, even more than certain basic principles. And one of the approaches of liberalism is the belief that change can occur even quickly, that conservatives tend to be more skeptical about the rapidity of change and the depth of change. And liberals believe that's why liberals supported the Oslo Accords and why liberals believe that you can, you can reason with even your enemy and even your enemy can change. Conservatives are much more skeptical.
- [26:57]
Bernard Henri Lévy
He has to change. He has to change. And I have to be sure that he changes.
- [27:03]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Yeah. So you need him. You want to be a tough liberal, not a liberal that has no grounding in reality.
- [27:09]
Bernard Henri Lévy
I'm not a lamb liberal.
- [27:10]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Yeah, yeah. You described Hamas as radical evil. Is there a distinction in your mind between radical evil and just other forms of evil? What makes Hamas distinctively, radically evil in comparison to all the other evil in the world?
- [27:29]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Evil without any other target than committing evil. To commit evil in order to take power is one thing. Commit evil in order to reconquer a territory is one thing. October 7th. It was no question of territory, no question of power, no question of justice, no question of nothing. It was a question to kill as many Jews as possible. It was question of raping a woman while another rapist was cutting her breast. This is what the New York Times reported a few weeks after. This sort of. What is the reason behind violating the lady while cutting the face methodically and finally shooting a pistol blow intimate parts? What is the reason for that except the pure pleasure, the pure joy, pure of committing evil.
- [28:47]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
So it's evil for its own sake, with no evil for its own sake.
- [28:52]
Bernard Henri Lévy
No other passion that committing evil, this radical evil.
- [28:57]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
You write about Palestinian civilian deaths. It's something that I think any feeling person, no matter what they believe about the justice of the war, grieves over. And you poignantly write that a death is a death, is a death, an innocent civilian is an innocent civilian. And all people are, from a Jewish perspective, are endowed with equal dignity and equal worth. And all were created in the divine image. And yet you insist that the responsibility for these deaths fall on Hamas. Could you elaborate on that a little?
- [29:36]
Bernard Henri Lévy
The sorrow is every face of a Palestinian child, which I have been unfortunate enough to see on Internet and so on, haunts my nights, really, as if it were my relative. But if you jump to the question of responsibility, the responsibility does not belong to the one who gave warning, proposed an evacuation. The responsibility belongs to the one who put the civilian head, who prevented him to go away, who said that enough is enough. They are responsible. What can I say? Even if the bullet is is Israel.
- [30:27]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
You write that Israel is a country like no other.
- [30:30]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Yeah.
- [30:30]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
What do you mean by that?
- [30:33]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Many things. I gave you an example before. I don't know any western country where you have such a strong minority. 20% of. Of people who don't endorse fully the creed of the states, which is Zionism. Israel, please, or not, is a Zionist state. You have 20% of the population that does not endorse Zionism, they are citizens, they have full civic rights. They are the MPs, and so on and so on. If you're not under that country, tell me which in Europe, I don't know. In America, same. An American party who would not like or not even bless, but like the flag of America would not enter into Capitol Hill. In Israel, you can be an Arab antizayrus party and beg the king.
- [31:43]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
You visit American campuses a lot, right? And you interact with young people too. You talk, you enjoy spending time with young people. I don't know how keenly you've been able to observe American campuses in the last year. And I'll ask you also not only in connection with, you know, that's part of. That's the higher education liberal establishment, but there are other liberal entities that you actually write about in the book. NGOs, international legal entities, the United nations, feminist groups, social justice groups who just responded to October 7th in such a disappointing way as liberals.
- [32:30]
Unnamed Speaker
It's betrayal.
- [32:30]
Bernard Henri Lévy
It's the biggest betrayal of one's values which I saw in all my life.
- [32:38]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Were you surprised by that?
- [32:39]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Yeah. The feminist groups who took the Jewish women, offended, martyrized, raped, because they were Jews.
- [32:50]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Do you think their reaction was because these were Jews and Israelis who were attacked and not any other group of women in the world?
- [33:01]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Come on. They were the only one to be driven out of the demonstrations. The only one.
- [33:07]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
And that's anti Semitism, right?
- [33:10]
Bernard Henri Lévy
This is true antisemitism.
- [33:12]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
Do you think the left, that part of the. I'd like you to help us understand the difference between liberalism as a profound liberal thinker and this kind of hard left of progressivism or identity politics, whatever you want to call it.
- [33:26]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Identity politics is. No, they think that they are the climax, the most advanced form of liberalism. They are not the identity politics. They are turning their back.
- [33:38]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
They're illiberal in many respects.
- [33:40]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Yes, they're illiberal. To be a liberal means to believe in universal values, to believe in the unity of mankind, to believe that everyone, whatever the gender, the circumstances, the time, has the same rights. Those in the campuses who. Who preach rise think the opposite.
- [34:04]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
So if it's being exclusively driven by this kind of antisemitism, first of all, I think by definition an anti Semitic ideology cannot be liberal. And so does it cast a shadow on this entire ideology that there's something rotten? It's not only this particular leader or this head of the United nations or this feminist organization that could have acted in a better way, or this university president, but is there something Systemically rotten at the core of this ideology.
- [34:39]
Bernard Henri Lévy
I don't like the idea of anything being systemic. These people say that there is a systemic racism in the American French institution, which is this way of thinking denies any possible goodwill of a single man or a single woman. We have each of us the power to say no, to change the order of things and so on. So nothing is completely systemic. But there is in the liberal landscape in Europe and in America, a whole part of the landscape which no longer deserves to be qualified of liberal. They are fascist or they are illiberal, or they are something else world which has to be invented, but not liberal. I am a liberal.
- [35:37]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
My last question for you is what's your advice to American Jews and supporters of Israel in the West?
- [35:49]
Bernard Henri Lévy
Resist. Don't give up. You will win.
- [35:55]
Rabbi Ami Hirsch
With that. Bernard Henri Lavie, thank you very much for agreeing to spend this time with us and we wish you well on all your future works. Thank you, Rabbi. Thank.
- [36:14]
Unnamed Speaker
Bernard. Henri Lavie writes in his book Israel Alone of the yes but phenomenon. By this he means the effort towards the methodical deconstruction of the radical evil of October 7th. Yes, but, he writes, is the indispensable tool used by professional excusers of evil. Remember the context, they plead. The most prominent of the contextualizers was none other than the Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres, who less than three weeks after October 7, ritually recited his condemnation of Hamas, but moved quickly to his main point. The attacks by Hamas did not happen in a vacuum, he argued. The Secretary General then proceeded to describe the grievances of the Palestinian people from what he called a suffocating occupation, as if the Palestinians themselves do not share responsibility for the hardships they endure. Peace was offered to them from 1947 onwards. They have rejected coexistence every day of the century old struggle. It's astonishing to me that no moral agency is ever assigned to Palestinians. I encountered this yes but argument firsthand in my interfaith dialogue group with prominent New York Jewish, Christian and Muslim clergy. We've been friends and allies, partners in the work of social repair for many years in an impassioned discussion about why it was so easy for our group to condemn the Pittsburgh massacre of Jews praying in a synagogue, but that we were eerily silent about the massacre of a hundred times more Jews in their beds in Israel. Men, women, children, grandparents, babies, Holocaust survivors, peace activists. One of my colleagues, after ritual condemnation of Hamas's atrocities, said these words that I don't think I will ever forget. What did you expect the Native Americans also scalped the white European invaders and hung their heads on pulse? And do you condemn the slave revolts against their white masters? He said this to me, a descendant of the people who first gave the world the concept that slavery is an offense against God. He said this to me with no shame and no sense of humility. There are those who simply deny that the massacres happened. They were Israeli propaganda. Others seek to minimize the atrocity. Well, it wasn't 1,200 people. It was far fewer. Or Israel herself killed most of its own civilians. For years I pondered how Holocaust denial could be so widespread, how so many people believe that the Holocaust was a hoax. But now we see in real time how it happens. It's only been a year and the October 7th denial machine is in full force and gaining traction. But the more sophisticated of the whitewashers use the yes, but argument. Yes, the killings happened on October 7th, but they didn't happen in a vacuum. What about Israeli apartheid, which by the way, is a malicious and vicious libel? What about the white, racist, oppressive, privileged, colonial Zionist movement? Never mind that most Israeli Jews are of Middle east descent and are the descendants of those who fled to Israel as refugees from their persecution in Arab and Muslim lands with nothing but the clothes on their back. You can criticize Israeli policies all you want. You can object to Israeli military strategy and give us your learned opinions on how you would have conducted the military campaign differently, all the while evading millions of Palestinian human shields and freeing the hostages in a tunnel system more elaborate than the London Underground. But I think it's important to remember and never to forget what actually happened on October 7. It is imperative now more than ever to counter the yes but phenomenon. No Israeli woke up on October 7th asking himself, how will I make war on Gaza today? Israel was invaded October 7, happened on the Israeli side of the internationally recognized border. These are not disputed lands, unless you are among those for whom Israel's existence in any territory in the land of Israel is disputed. 1200 people were massacred in cold blood, the majority of them civilians. Hamas is a terrorist organization recognized as such by many countries. As if such recognition is even needed. After October 7th. They sexually assaulted, brutalized and raped women. Men too. They slaughtered babies and young people. They murdered whole families, shooting parents in front of their children and children in front of their parents. They took two hundred and fifty people hostages. That word has been sanitized in the past year, partially because the negotiations involved trading hostages for Palestinian prisoners as if they are on equal moral footing the prisoners. Hamas wants committed violence offenses against Israelis. The hands are smeared in blood. If the price of releasing the Israeli hostages is to free some of these terrorist barbarians, we hold our nose, pay the ransom and bring the hostages home. But remember who these hostages are. They are civilians who were sleeping in their beds. They were stolen from their homes and illegally and immorally held in the most brutal conditions. The six Israelis murdered by their captors in September could not even stand up straight in the tunnel. They were extremely malnourished and hadn't seen the sunshine in weeks. Even to breathe in that tunnel was difficult. Isn't there a limit to what we will tolerate as a species? Even if you believe your grievances are just, aren't there acts that are so beyond the pale that they require mandate only one moral response? Unequivocal condemnation? And doesn't humanity's long climb up from the savagery of the survival of the fittest require us to fight against those who would take us back to the Dark Ages? A state of nature described by Thomas Hobbes as a war of all against all. A world of no arts, no letters, no society, and worst of all, continual fear and danger of violent death and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short. Make no mistake, Israel's war with Hamas is a struggle for decency and morality. It is no less important to the west than the Middle East. Until next time. This is in these times.