In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch: Bernard-Henri Lévy

Release Date: October 10, 2024

Introduction

In the October 10, 2024 episode of "In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch", host Rabbi Ammi Hirsch engages in a profound and intellectually charged conversation with Bernard-Henri Lévy (BHL), a renowned French philosopher, author, and filmmaker. The discussion delves into pressing issues surrounding antisemitism, the state of liberalism, the aftermath of the October 7th attacks, and the unique position of Israel in contemporary geopolitics.

Bernard-Henri Lévy: A Profile

Rabbi Hirsch introduces BHL (00:10 - 02:00), highlighting his extensive career as a liberal Jewish intellectual from France, his involvement in the New Philosophers movement, and his steadfast defense of democracy and humanism. Lévy's influential works, including his recent book "Israel Alone", set the stage for an in-depth exploration of his perspectives on current events and Jewish values.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (02:00): "Thank you to host me in this famous podcast."

The State of Europe and Antisemitism

The conversation begins with Lévy expressing deep concerns about the future of Jews in Europe, particularly in France, where antisemitism is on the rise. He underscores that the existence and health of Jewish communities serve as a barometer for Europe's overall well-being.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (03:03): "I'm really worried. I'm worried for the future of the Jews in Europe, worried for the future of the Jews, therefore for the future of Europe itself."

Lévy points out the resurgence of antisemitic sentiments within leftist political parties, drawing parallels to the historical Dreyfus Affair.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (04:20): "We have, for example, a whole political party, a leftist one coming from the left and even the extreme left, which is openly anti Semitic... This tradition went into the cold, into the shadow for a long time, and it is coming back."

"Israel Alone": Understanding the Title and Its Implications

Lévy introduces his latest book, "Israel Alone", discussing the aftermath of the October 7th attacks. He articulates why Israel finds itself isolated in its battle against entities like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the underlying influence of Iran.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (05:21): "I mean that in order to fight, to wage these fights against Hamas today, maybe tomorrow Hezbollah and in the background, Iran, Israel is much more alone in this current battle."

Lévy emphasizes that despite past coalitions supporting Israel, the current scenario presents Israel with unprecedented isolation.

Western Civilization and the Perception of the Conflict

Rabbi Hirsch and Lévy discuss why broader Western society struggles to recognize the conflict as a fundamental test of Western civilization.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (06:38): "Some are afraid of this big coalition which is behind Hamas... Maybe we are just afraid of this big coalition which is behind Hamas."

Lévy suggests that fear of the vast network supporting Hamas contributes to the West's hesitation in fully backing Israel.

US Support for Israel: A Complex Relationship

The dialogue shifts to the role of the United States. Lévy praises the personal admiration and support the US leadership has for Israel but critiques the lack of comprehensive political backing.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (09:29): "After that, for political reasons, probably he does not do enough... I regret she did not say the symmetrical Israel has to win."

He contrasts the strong coalition behind the US responses to ISIS and Afghanistan with the tepid support for Israel's struggle.

Defining Liberalism vs. Illiberalism

Lévy differentiates true liberalism from the emerging illiberal factions within the liberal landscape. He criticizes the current left for abandoning universal values in favor of identity politics and illiberal ideologies.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (34:03): "To be a liberal means to believe in universal values, to believe in the unity of mankind... Those in the campuses who preach rise think the opposite."

Rabbi Hirsch aligns with Lévy, describing himself as a "tough liberal" who supports progressive change while remaining grounded in reality.

The Radical Evil of Hamas and the October 7th Attacks

A significant portion of the conversation focuses on the nature of the October 7th attacks by Hamas. Lévy categorizes Hamas's actions as "radical evil," highlighting their indiscriminate brutality aimed solely at inflicting suffering on Jews.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (27:28): "Evil without any other target than committing evil... It was a question to kill as many Jews as possible."

He draws parallels to World War II, emphasizing that Hamas's actions are not driven by territorial gains or political power but by sheer malice.

Palestinian Civilian Deaths: Assigning Responsibility

While acknowledging the tragic loss of Palestinian lives, Lévy firmly places responsibility on Hamas for orchestrating these casualties.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (29:35): "The responsibility belongs to the one who put the civilian, who prevented him to go away... They are responsible."

He argues that even if casualties occur inadvertently, the primary blame rests with Hamas for endangering Palestinian civilians.

Israel: A Unique Liberal State

Lévy asserts that Israel stands out among Western democracies due to its strong minority (Arab) population that holds full civic rights and participates actively in governance.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (30:29): "Israel is a fruit of a war of decolonization... Arab parties are in the parliament and they are anti Zionist and they hate Israel sometimes, almost all. But they participate in the government."

This unique societal structure, according to Lévy, showcases Israel's commitment to liberal democracy amidst external threats.

Western Liberal Entities' Response to Terrorism

Lévy critiques various Western liberal entities—such as NGOs, the United Nations, feminist groups, and social justice organizations—for their inadequate and, at times, hypocritical responses to the October 7th attacks.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (32:30): "It's the biggest betrayal of one's values which I saw in all my life."

He highlights instances where these groups condemned terrorism selectively, showing leniency towards Palestinian grievances while harshly criticizing Hamas.

The "Yes, But" Phenomenon

Lévy introduces the concept of the "Yes, But" phenomenon, where initial condemnations of atrocities are undermined by justifications that minimize the perpetrator's culpability.

Narrator (36:14): "Bernard-Henri Lévy writes in his book Israel Alone of the yes but phenomenon... The more sophisticated of the whitewashers use the yes, but argument."

He underscores the importance of unequivocal condemnation of such acts without diverting blame or contextualizing the violence in a manner that excuses the attackers.

Systemic Issues in Liberalism: A Point of Contention

Rabbi Hirsch prompts Lévy to discuss whether antisemitism within liberal circles indicates a systemic flaw in the ideology itself. Lévy resists the notion of systemic racism but concedes that significant illiberal elements have infiltrated what was once a bastion of universal liberal values.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (34:39): "I am a liberal... Identity politics... They are fascist or they are illiberal."

He maintains that true liberalism remains intact but warns against conflating illiberal factions with the broader liberal ideology.

Advice to American Jews and Supporters of Israel

In closing, Lévy urges resilience and unwavering support for Israel among American Jews and other allies.

Bernard-Henri Lévy (35:48): "Resist. Don't give up. You will win."

Rabbi Hirsch echoes this sentiment, reinforcing the call to action and solidarity in the face of mounting challenges.

Conclusion

The episode culminates with Rabbi Hirsch expressing gratitude to Bernard-Henri Lévy for his insightful perspectives. Lévy's "Israel Alone" serves as a clarion call against rising antisemitism and the erosion of true liberal values, emphasizing the necessity of global solidarity in defending democracy and human dignity.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Lévy on Europe's Future:

   (03:03) "I'm really worried. I'm worried for the future of the Jews in Europe, worried for the future of the Jews, therefore for the future of Europe itself."

2. On Antisemitism in Leftist Politics:

   (04:20) "This tradition went into the cold... and it is coming back."

3. Defining "Israel Alone":

   (05:21) "Israel is much more alone in this current battle."

4. Critique of US Political Support:

   (09:29) "I regret she did not say the symmetrical Israel has to win."

5. On Radical Evil of Hamas:

   (27:28) "It was a question to kill as many Jews as possible."

6. Responsibility for Civilian Deaths:

   (29:35) "They are responsible."

7. Unique Liberal Nature of Israel:

   (30:29) "Arab parties are in the parliament and they are anti Zionist and they hate Israel sometimes... But they participate in the government."

8. The "Yes, But" Phenomenon:

   (36:14) "The yes but argument."

9. Advice to Supporters:

   (35:48) "Resist. Don't give up. You will win."

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the multifaceted discussion between Rabbi Ammi Hirsch and Bernard-Henri Lévy, highlighting critical insights into antisemitism, liberalism, and the existential challenges facing Israel and Western civilization.