Podcast Summary: In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch

Guest: Jonathan Greenblatt (ADL CEO)

Host: Rabbi Ammi Hirsch, Stephen Wise Free Synagogue
Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This urgent, deeply reflective episode reunites Rabbi Ammi Hirsch and Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), for a frank discussion about antisemitism in America in the aftermath of October 7th. Together, they examine the heightened threats facing American Jews from both the far right and far left, the polarization within American and Jewish life, and what it will take to secure the future of the Jewish community in the US. The conversation is rooted in Jewish values and takes a data-driven, non-partisan approach, touching on political realities, new ideological challenges, and the personal toll of communal leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Worsening 'Weather' of Antisemitism Post-October 7th

• Opening Metaphor Revisited ([00:11])
  • Greenblatt’s earlier description:
    • Far right antisemitism = "hurricane" (sudden, violent, deadly)
    • Far left antisemitism = "climate change" (slow, pervasive, makes environment inhospitable)
  • Rabbi Hirsch reflects:
    “Since then, the weather has only gotten worse and the climate changed faster than anyone could have imagined.” ([00:40])
• Greenblatt’s Energy and Commitment ([01:32], [03:45])
  • Jonathan expresses being more animated and committed than ever, despite “cross currents the likes of which we read about in history books.”
  • On hearing from Jews across the country:
    “My heart breaks every time I hear those stories. Every single time. They never get any easier. Never.” ([02:44])

2. Leading Jewish Institutions Amid Polarization

• Unprecedented Division ([06:31])
  • Rabbi Hirsch and Greenblatt discuss the difficulty of leading broad-based Jewish institutions today compared with a decade ago.
• Fragmented Narratives and Distrust of Institutions ([07:26])
  • Greenblatt outlines how social media and personalized information streams erode shared narratives—even within families.
  • Societal distrust now includes "media, government, Congress, law enforcement, military, medicine, science, institutions generally." ([08:37])
  • “In a moment where systems are failing and where people aren't seeing the outcomes that they expect... that creates a kind of space that populists exploit. And populists thrive on scapegoating.” ([08:37])
• Call for Unity, Not Uniformity ([10:40])
  • “I don't think as Jews, we should expect or we even need unanimity, but we need unity, right?” ([10:40])
  • Urges leaders to “call people in before you call them out,” criticizing social media callout culture in the Jewish community. ([11:54])

3. Reasserting Jewish Minority Reality

• American Exceptionalism Questioned ([14:20], [15:00])
  • Greenblatt: “This country, the United States of America, has been indisputably the best home for us in our diaspora... but we are foolish to think that anything lasts forever unless we're willing to fight for it.”
  • "Almost half of all people in the United States of America never met a Jew." ([16:17])
  • “America is a contact sport and every Jewish person... you've got to be on the field. There's no watching from the bleachers...” ([16:46])

4. Sources and Manifestations of Antisemitism

a) The Far Right: “Hurricane” ([18:34]-[24:54])

• Populism, Anti-Elitism, and Old Bigotries

  • Antisemitism from the far right is rooted in nativism, isolationism, and white supremacy—unique American strains ([18:48]).
  • Cites examples from Charlottesville, Pittsburgh, Poway, Capitol insurrection, and media figures (e.g., Tucker Carlson’s “despicable pseudo historians”).

• Role of Social Media & Deplatforming ([21:37])

  • “He was much more tame when he was on Fox. But, without the editorial constraints... he shifts over to his podcast on X where anything goes. There are no more constraints...”

• Concerns About Youth and the ‘Manosphere’ ([26:22])

  • Greenblatt points to alarming shifts among young conservatives and the rise of disaffected males attracted to scapegoating and conspiracy theories.
  • Warns, “It is worrisome to me when you have a segment of your community who’s so detached from our core values and who has imbibed the language of those who hate us.” ([53:00])

• Hope for Pushback on Far Right ([29:02])

  • Highlights Ralph Reed's op-ed urging conservatives to defend the Jewish community.
  • Calls for Jewish engagement with Christian Evangelicals for shared values: “In an October 8th world... we need to recognize and embrace those who want to embrace us, not by sacrificing our principles, but by extending to them the same grace.” ([30:03])

b) The Far Left: “Climate Change/Tornadoes” ([31:11]-[39:29])

• Climate Metaphor, Dam Bursts ([31:27], [31:39])
  • “We have hurricanes on one side and tornadoes on the other... You have the same destructive force.”
  • Cites events in New York: “There are segments of the far left which have been consumed by this anti-Zionist ideology...Anti-Zionism is simply the latest way that anti-Jewish hate is normalized and legitimized with a pseudo-scientific or pseudo-political veneer.” ([32:23])
• Case Study: Parky Synagogue protest & NYC Mayor Mamdani ([35:34]-[39:29])
  • Recaps how anti-Israel/pro-Hamas protesters harassed synagogue-goers and notes the mayor’s equivocal response (“suggested there was some equivalence between the people who were protesting, [and] the people walking into the synagogue...”).
  • Emphasizes dangers of making “breezy anti-Zionism”—including calls for BDS (Boycott, Divest, Sanction)—normative in public discourse.

5. The “Mamdani Monitor” & Guarding Public Life ([39:29]-[46:06])

• Why a Special Monitor?
  • Greenblatt explains the ADL's "Mamdani Monitor" to track incidents and appointments in NYC under its new anti-Zionist mayor.
  • “He [Mamdani] is the mayor and he's espousing an ideology that creates a permission structure. We're concerned about it. If we're wrong, then that will be exposed.” ([41:51])
• Principled, Non-Partisan Watchfulness
  • ADL will track both positive and negative developments, and apply same standards elsewhere, asserting: “As far as I'm concerned, we're just doing our job.”

6. Advice to the Jewish Community ([46:06]-[50:42])

• Be Wary, Be Engaged—But Don’t Hide
  • “In an October 8th world, we are reminded that we must be wary... I’m not willing to surrender, not a millimeter to the bigots and to the bullies and to the anti-Zionists...” ([47:51]/[48:42])
  • On showing Jewish identity:
    “You should wear it [kippah] proudly... I will not, again, be intimidated... They can all jump in the lake. Now, again, you gotta be smart...but I think we can't afford to give in and to let them win.” ([49:42])

7. Jewish Anti-Zionism: A Small but Loud Minority ([50:42])

• Greenblatt’s Assessment
  • Estimates anti-Zionist Jews comprise 10-20% of the population but are a “big problem... when you have a segment of your community who’s so detached from our core values and who has imbibed the language of those who hate us.” ([53:00])
  • Stresses complexity and the need for better leadership and education to help reconnect younger Jews to their heritage and Zionist identity.

8. The Next 250 Years: Optimism and Challenge ([55:31]-[58:26])

• America’s Corrective Capacity
  • Greenblatt: “I don't know that there's another country in the history of humanity with the corrective capacity that this one has.”
  • “If any country can get through this time, it's this one. And if any people can contribute to that renaissance, it's Jewish Americans.” ([57:40])
• Closing Call:
  • “We’ve got to get on the field... Each of us has a role to play. We got to lean in like never before.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sometimes I feel like we're frogs in the boiling water and we lose sight of the fact that what we are experiencing right now is not normal.” – Jonathan Greenblatt ([01:40])
• “I will work with, engage with, dialogue with anyone...my only red line is if you dehumanize others, then I'm not going to humanize you or dignify you with my time.” – Jonathan Greenblatt ([11:54])
• “America is a contact sport and every Jewish person, man, woman or child...you got to be on the field. There's no, you know, watching from the bleachers.” – Jonathan Greenblatt ([16:46])
• “Anti-Zionism is simply the latest way that anti-Jewish hate is normalized and legitimized.” – Jonathan Greenblatt ([32:23])
• “I’m not willing to surrender, not a millimeter to the bigots and the bullies and to the anti-Zionists, however they choose to sort of identify.” – Jonathan Greenblatt ([48:42])
• “If you dehumanize people...like, again, you delegitimize their very existence and you demonize them, like, I'm sorry, that's hate...No matter how you dress it up, it's hate.” – Jonathan Greenblatt ([32:23])
• “We want this city as we want this country to be the best place possible for its Jewish citizens, and, by the way, for all people...” – Jonathan Greenblatt ([39:01])
• “If the overall atmosphere is hostile to Jews, it will threaten Jewish safety everywhere....what starts with the Jews never ends with the Jews.” – Rabbi Ammi Hirsch ([60:26])

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Topic | Timestamp | |---------|-------|-----------| | Opening: Metaphor of Hurricane & Climate Change | [00:11]-[00:40] | | Greenblatt on the Not-Normal “Now” | [01:32]-[03:45] | | Polarization and Social Media’s Role | [07:26]-[10:40] | | Unity vs. Unanimity | [10:40]-[11:54] | | Jewish Exceptionalism, Minority Reality | [14:20]-[17:59] | | Right-Wing Antisemitism Detailed | [18:34]-[24:54] | | Social Media & Conspiracism | [21:37]-[24:54] | | Evangelicals as Allies | [29:02]-[31:11] | | Left-Wing Antisemitism, Parky Synagogue | [31:27]-[39:29] | | The Mamdani Monitor: Explanation | [39:29]-[41:51] | | Safety Advice & Jewish Visibility | [46:06]-[50:42] | | Jewish Anti-Zionism | [50:42]-[55:31] | | America at 250 Years: Change & Hope | [55:31]-[58:26] |

Final Thoughts & Calls to Action

• Both Hirsch and Greenblatt underline the fragility and strength of Jewish life in America, calling for unity, vigilance, and pride in Jewish identity.
• Rabbi Hirsch:
  “We should work hard to instill a deep, passionate Jewish identity in our children. If we do, they and we will be fine. And we must form alliances with our non Jewish friends. Jews are still a small minority. We cannot succeed alone.” ([63:33])
• Greenblatt:
  “We got to get on the field. We got to. Each of us has a role to play. We got to lean in like never before.” ([57:40])

This episode is a must-listen for anyone concerned about contemporary challenges to Jewish life and democracy in America, providing sobering analysis, hopeful frameworks, and a call for principled engagement both within and beyond the Jewish community.