Liz Hirsh Naftali

Summary

Podcast Summary: "In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch"

Guest: Liz Hirsh Naftali
Episode Date: February 12, 2026

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Overview

This deeply emotional episode focuses on the story of Abigail Moore Idan, a young Israeli girl taken hostage by Hamas during the October 7th attacks, and the broader implications for Jewish identity, trauma, and international responses to the crisis. Rabbi Ammi Hirsch interviews Abigail's great-aunt, Liz Hirsh Naftali, whose book chronicles the ordeal and her relentless advocacy for Abigail and other hostages. Together, they explore issues of trauma, rescue efforts, political failures, and the ongoing impact on survivors and their families, while also discussing the larger meaning for Israel, the Jewish people, bipartisan support in the U.S., and the role of empathy in recovery.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Abigail’s Ordeal and Rescue

• [01:41] How is Abigail now?

  • Liz describes Abigail as a remarkable girl who is managing well in her new life, yet she continues to carry immense trauma.
  • Quote:

    “She can dance, she can sing. She’s really a delightful, beautiful child...But we just know what she’s carrying in her, which is very heavy.”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [01:41]

• [03:27] The horror of October 7th:

  • Liz recounts the day Abigail, then three, witnessed her mother’s murder, and was covered by her father’s body after he was killed while trying to rescue his children.
  • Notable visual: Abigail and two siblings (ages 3, 6, 9) survive the initial attack in Kfar Aza.
  • Michael and Amalia, the older siblings, hide in a closet for 14 hours, communicating with a social worker while Abigail is missing.

• [08:16] The moment of hope:

  • It took several days for the family to realize she was missing, not dead, and might be a hostage in Gaza.
  • “There was the opportunity... that maybe she was alive and maybe she was taken hostage.”
    — Rabbi Ammi Hirsch, [08:16]

• [09:43] Crossing into Gaza and captivity:

  • The hostages, including Abigail, were paraded as trophies.
  • “The terrorists were trying to show off that they had actually captured this child... as a win. And that for me, was just crushing.”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [09:43]

• [11:37] Hostage conditions:

  • They were kept in homes, not underground. Conditions included deprivation, near silence, poor hygiene, and constant fear with bombings overhead for 51 days.

2. Systemic Failures and the Call for Investigation

• [14:14] Intelligence and rescue lapses:
  • Liz expresses anger and frustration that no one came to defend her family and that intelligence warnings were missed.
  • Quote:

    “We need this investigation that is not political and is not biased, but is one to understand so this never happens again.”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [15:27]

3. Government Responses: Israel vs. U.S.

• [16:11] Why was there no investigation or deal sooner?

  • She criticizes Israeli leadership for reluctance to self-examine and for prioritizing military goals over the hostages.
  • She notes that significant hostage releases only happened due to U.S. (Biden and later Trump) and Qatari pressure.
  • Quote:

    “It was never because of Prime Minister Netanyahu deciding that that was his priority...”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [17:06]

• [20:46] U.S. government showed more empathy:

  • Liz describes American officials—Democrats and Republicans—as deeply engaged and compassionate, unlike the distant Israeli officials:

    “Nobody ever reached out to us from the Israeli Knesset, from the Netanyahu team and said, how can we help you? How is Abigail? Nobody. But I do know that President Biden... called myself and my brother in law as the car that she was in... crossed into Israeli territory.”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [21:55]

4. The Day of Release and Aftermath

• [23:33] The release:

  • The family received notice Abigail’s name was on the list for release after several agonizing days.
  • Even after official confirmation, Liz only believed it when she saw Abigail reunited with family on live television.

• [26:21] Meeting President Biden:

  • In April 2024, the new family, including Abigail and her siblings, met President Biden, who demonstrated personal empathy and understanding of their trauma.
  • Quote:

    “But it should be that idea of children are free, children are protected, children are loved, and children are cared for.”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [28:23]

5. Trauma Recovery for Abigail and her Siblings

• [29:23] Michael and Amalia:
  • Both children are adapting, finding joy and passion, but their experiences remain underneath.
  • Liz movingly describes watching Michael play soccer, recognizing the weight of his survival beneath such ordinary moments.

6. Politics, Partisanship, and Advocacy

• [31:40] Reactions from progressives and lessons on advocacy:

  • Liz recounts a disappointing meeting with a progressive Congresswoman who tweeted “from the river to the sea,” symbolizing a lack of genuine empathy.

• [34:10] On keeping bipartisan support for Israel:

  • Liz speaks on the importance of sustaining bipartisan U.S. support for Israel and pushes back against those who question Israel’s legitimacy.
  • Quote:

    “I’m tired of being in a place where I have to defend that Israel has a right to exist.”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [34:10]

7. Reflections on Human Nature, Resilience, and Hope

• [37:12] Lessons about human nature:
  • Liz was transformed from a giver to someone in need, which reframed her ideas about help and community.
  • She highlights that solidarity among Jewish people and their allies was critical—“we won because we stayed together and we brought back Abigail and these hostages.”
    — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [38:17]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On enduring trauma and resilience:

  “If you saw her tomorrow and you saw her playing with her friends, you’d say she’s a beautiful little girl. And she is a beautiful little girl. We just know what she’s carrying in her, which is very heavy.”
  — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [01:41]

• On the responsibility of telling the story:

  “I wanted to make sure that we were telling the truth of what happened to Abigail and so many on October 7th... just to keep the stories going and your emotions.”
  — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [03:27]

• On political failures:

  “I don’t think that the people in leadership are really willing to have a deep, honest look at their failures on October 7th...”
  — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [16:11]

• On hope and disappointment:

  “And I looked at President Biden and I looked at Prime Minister Netanyahu, and I said, what are you going to do? And President Biden said, I’m going to do everything for the rapid release of all the hostages. You have my commitment. And I looked at Prime Minister Netanyahu and he said the same as the President. And I said, okay, well then why aren’t we getting them done?”
  — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [18:39]

• On American Jewish advocacy:

  “I am going to keep talking to both sides and I do this work, which is how do we talk about the beauty of the nation of Israel and the importance of this nation that’s not going anywhere and that is just going to keep getting stronger.”
  — Liz Hirsh Naftali, [36:54]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–01:41: Introduction to Abigail’s story and Liz Hirsh Naftali
• 03:27–08:38: Detailed account of October 7th and initial aftermath
• 09:15–13:06: Description of hostage taking and conditions in captivity
• 14:14–16:11: Call for investigation into Israeli failures
• 17:06–21:55: Differences between Israeli and American official responses
• 23:33–26:21: The day of Abigail’s release and meeting President Biden
• 29:23–31:14: Updates on Michael and Amalia
• 31:40–36:54: Political perspectives, advocacy, and concerns about Israel’s bipartisan support
• 37:12–39:17: Lessons about human nature and community resilience

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Tone and Takeaways

Throughout, the tone is intensely personal, honest, and impassioned. Liz Hirsh Naftali shares harrowing family trauma, resolves forged in the fire of tragedy, anger at leadership failures, and gratitude for communal and bipartisan efforts that ultimately rescued hostages. The conversation interweaves concrete narratives of survival with larger reflections on justice, leadership, the meaning of Israel in Jewish history, and the universal need for empathy in healing.

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Final Thought

In the words of Liz Hirsh Naftali, the recovery and future of survivors like Abigail depends on solidarity, empathy, and ongoing commitment to justice and humanity:

“We've got to do better for children. We've got to do better for all of our children.”
— Liz Hirsh Naftali, [28:23]

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This episode is an unflinching reminder of how individual stories reflect and shape broader ethical, political, and communal realities. It is essential listening for anyone seeking to understand the personal and collective aftermath of one of the most traumatic events in recent Jewish and Israeli history.

Transcript

[A]

Rabbi I'm rabbi ami hirsch of the stephen wise free synagogue in new york. And you're listening to in these times. Abigail Moore. Idan was three years old when Hamas terrorists forced their way into her home in Kvar Aza. And after her mother and father were both killed in front of her and her two siblings, Abigail fled covered in their blood and ran to a neighbor's house. But the terrorists caught up with her and took her and her neighbor's family into Gaza, where they remained hostages for 51 days. Joining me today is Abigail's great aunt, Liz Hirsch Naftali, who fought with everything she had for her great niece, traveling the world, meeting with presidents and prime ministers, and who kept fighting and who was still fighting even now that Abigail and all the hostages who were held in Gaza have come home.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

Liz Hirsch Naftali, welcome to in these Times.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

What a tremendous book you wrote. I'm holding it up here for those who are watching us online, all about Abigail. I had a special affection for Abigail, as so many other people did around the world. My daughter's name is Abigail. So of course, you know, we kind of see ourselves in other people's distress. And that for me, was especially poignant and very deep. Before we get into so many of the issues that you raised, really critical issues, how is Abigail doing now?

[B]

She's doing for what we expect, a six year old. She does well. She's in school, she has friends, she plays, she's smart, she can dance, she can sing. She's really a delightful, beautiful child. And the thing that is very clear is that amongst all that which we would want for all of our children is a child who was traumatized and who does still have trauma from witnessing her parents murder on October 7 and then being taken as a hostage for 51 days. But if you saw her tomorrow and you saw her playing with her friends, you'd say she's a beautiful little girl. And she is a beautiful little girl. We just know what she's carrying in her, which is very heavy.

[A]

You know, I read your book and all of these emotions that I had for over two years, thank God all the hostages are back, the living and the deceased, which is since you wrote your book. So all of our prayers came true in that respect at least. But all of the emotions as I was reading your book, they all flooded back to me. The tears I found myself weeping in passages of your book. The anger, even the rage at the lack of recognition of Jewish humanity on the part of so many people it's just so important to read your book now when the hostage issue is resolved, so that we never forget what we actually went through and what we experienced, what we felt during those times. Could you give us an understanding from your perspective what Abigail went through as a 3 year old on that day on October 7th?

[B]

Yes. And I'll first say thank you because I believe when I wrote this book it was, you know, quite early on and we still had hostages. But what I wanted to do is I wanted to make sure that we were telling the truth of what happened to Abigail and so many on October 7th and I wanted to be out there. And now that it's been 850 days, I want people to read this and read other books, but just to keep the stories going and your emotions. Because what happened to Abigail on that day, and I still cry, is just so horrendous. The fact that she and her brother and sister, a three, a six and a nine year old, woke up to sirens and their mother putting them, locking them, trying to lock them in a safe room and terrorists coming in at 6:30 in the morning and murdering this beautiful 38 year old woman, my niece Madar, in front of these three children. That was the first thing that Abigail saw on October 7th. And then they ran outside and their father, who, who was a photojournalist and had gone out many times to take pictures of missiles flying into Israel from Gaza and from the south as they lived along the border, had gone out. But he realized it was a terror attack and he came back and he picks up Abigail and the kids and they're running, they've just seen their mother murdered and he is gunned down and murdered and Abigail is crushed under his body. And the two older kids, 6 and 9 older, 6 and 9 years old, lock themselves run home and lock themselves in a closet. And so when you ask what she experienced that day, a three year old saw her mother murdered and then was in her father's arms as he was murdered.

[A]

So all three of them ran out and to find their father after they witnessed their mother was murdered, they ran out of the house.

[B]

Yes. And he was running back because he realized what was happening. It wasn't what we call a normal missile attack, which happened in Israel quite often before Oct. 7, but he realized there was a terror attack. He actually captured on his camera photos of not only the people that were coming in by land, but paragliders coming in. And he worked for a news company called ynet which provides information for all the country. So he was Going to do his job, which was to take photos and send it to the rest of the country.

[A]

And so all three kids go out, they find their father, who's running back because he, he, he. He realizes what's happening, and he grabs the youngest daughter, Abigail, in his arms, and they're running back, presumably they're running to home, I guess, and he's shot and killed and falls along with Abigail. And the two older siblings see this, and they assume not only that both their parents are dead, that their father is dead, but also their younger sister is dead.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then what happens?

[B]

Well, let me just say that Michael and Amalia, they end up in a closet in their home for 14 hours alone. They are the voice. They're the ones that tell us what happened that morning. And they are speaking with a social worker for about 12 hours. This beautiful woman named Tamara Schlesinger gets on the phone through a group called Unite Hatzalah and is talking to these two children on the line for 12 of the 14 hours. So at that point, all we understood was that Abigail and her parents had been murdered. But what we learned a few days later, when this kibbutz was actually cleared, and there was this kibbutz with about 700 people on it that day, everyone hiding in their safe room, and over 300 terrorists coming into this kibbutz to murder and to kidnap and to destroy. So by the time army people came and by the time the IDF officially came, because in the beginning, only reservists were coming to help to defend these people. Nobody else came. But by the time the IDF finally comes and they are starting to have a big battle and people are dying and people are being killed, it takes actually three or four days for them to clear the kiblitz called Kfar Aza. And when they do, they don't find Abigail anywhere. So it was at that moment, with all of the terror and all of the horror and all the crazy, everything that was going on, it was only a few days later, when Abigail was nowhere to be found, that we started to think that she had been taken as a hostage, that she had survived. And then we started putting the pieces together, and we did learn that Abigail had survived. And at that moment was something for us to hope for, that amongst everything her parents murdered and everything that was so tragic that day, that she. She was a hostage, but we could get her back.

[A]

So it was. There was a silver lining of hope that after, what, three or four days where you. Everyone assumed she had been murdered, since she wasn't found There was the opportunity that, that, that became apparent that maybe she was alive and maybe she was taken hostage.

[B]

Exactly. And what we then started to put together was that she had actually arrived to a home. And, and we know that she arrived to a home and was brought in, and that house was then taken over by terrorists a few hours later, and they were taken into Gaza.

[A]

So you write the, the neighbor's house. They run into a neighbor's house. The neighbor, the father in the neighbor's house was part of the security apparatus of the kibbutz. He was out fighting and eventually he was wounded. And the mother ends up with her three kids and Abigail under her care. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And they are marched off the kibbutz before noon that day into Gaza.

[A]

So you describe that when they get to Gaza, the streets of Gaza erupted with. In ecstasy, really, an exhilaration. Could you, could you describe that a little more in detail and give us your feelings of still to this day, you know, two and a half years later, what you feel about that?

[B]

Well, they, they were taken in the car, in this woman Hagar's car and brought into Gaza. And that morning, Hamas broke in over 60 places and made holes. And so they took them in Hagar's car through one of those holes and through the dirt path fields into Gaza. And when they got into Gaza City, they were trying to, the terrorists were trying to show off that they had actually captured this child, the young older daughter who was 10 of Hagar. And they were shoving her outside and trying to show the people that, that they had accomplished what they had set out to do, which was to capture a Jewish child and to show this beautiful little girl off as a win. And that for me, was just crushing. Now, I also, at the same time, understand that Hamas is a terror organization that has terrorized the people living in Gaza as well, their own people. So I, I just, again, it's not a political statement, but it's just a reminder that while they were doing this to a Jewish child, they have endangered and they have killed and they have done horrible things to their own Palestinian children that are in, in Gaza as well.

[A]

And I imagine you believe that the next phase in the rehabilitation of Gaza can't happen unless and until Hamas is deprived of its governing authority. Is that right?

[B]

That's how I believe, yes.

[A]

Yeah, that's how most of us believe. So what happens to this family, Hagar, her three kids, and her neighbor's daughter, Abigail? What happens to them on the first day and throughout the 51 days? I think you said where they were captive, they weren't held. There was never a point where they were held underground. Is that right?

[B]

No, they were never underground. They were in buildings. And on October 27, there was ground forces, but within a few days, there were bombs being dropped by IDF into Gaza City. So while they were not underground, they were in buildings. And I write about it that every night the kids could barely go to sleep because the bombs were so loud and the buildings were so rickety. And there was one time when a building got destroyed and lose, literally the space that Hagar and these four children were in was destroyed. And then they had to be moved to another place. But just in terms of like what a day was like for them, they barely had any food. Usually it was like a piece of pita bread and some water. And it was Hagar, this beautiful woman with her three kids and Abigail begging for food. There was no hygiene. They. They had to ask for toilet paper. They had one toothbrush per for everybody. I mean, it was just. Everything was horrific. And then they were in a dark room, silenced. And she was with four children under the age of 10, two little ones, three and four. And they were silenced. And that takes. You asked me in the beginning how Abigail is. She's a child with lots of energy and exuberance and beauty. And for 51 days she had to be silent. And 51 days after seeing her parents killed and knowing that they were killed, silenced, were they.

[A]

I think you, you, you wrote that they were moved, I think at least twice from place to place. The first place they were at was. It was just a regular home. It was, it was a person's apartment. And he was a Hamas member and he charged his wife with the responsibility of looking over these four Israelis who had come into their home and they were being held hostage.

[B]

They were in a home of a Hamas family. The father was a Hamas member, his wife was there, their kids were there. And while they were all in the living room and in the house, living life, they had segregated one room where they closed out all the windows, made it dark, and just left them in a. In squalor, dirty and disgusting.

[A]

And all of this was pre planned, right? This was part of the Hamas strategy that they had been working on for, presumably for years. And they knew, they knew that where they were going to take the hostages. And these hostage holders were prepared to.

[B]

Hold them, I think. So look again, the planning. I'm going to just jump to. The thing for me as we speak here is that we need an investigation, an independent investigation that will look at what happened before October 7th so that we will understand what was missed by intelligence, by the army, by the government, by so many in this incredible country, Israel, that missed all the signs of this incredible horrific attack. We need an investigation to know why nobody came to. To rescue any of these people. 6:30 in the morning, the terrorists got there. It was hours before anybody was able to come and help them, to save them, to even start to fight off the terrorists. A few thousand of them all along the border had made it into Israel. How is that? So when you ask me, like where my frustration or where, you know, I want to know what happened and then I want to know why no one was there to defend my niece and her husband, this young couple with three beautiful children, and why no one was there that when they were murdered, there was no one to save their three children. And so I look at it and I think, like, you can say that it was planned on their side, but we don't know enough. What we need to do is investigate it. So I am a huge advocate and I know so many in Israel and so many around the world who love Israel and do not want to see anything happen bad to Israel ever again. Understand that we need this investigation that is not political and is not biased, but is one to understand so this never happens again.

[A]

You've met many times with Israeli officials and with American officials. You write that you met with Prime Minister Netanyahu. Is it right to assume that this issue was raised in any of the discussions? And whether or not it was raised, why do you think there was no, to this day, there's been no official, national, bipartisan or nonpartisan commission of investigation.

[B]

I don't think there's been an investigation so far because I don't think that the people in leadership are really willing to have a deep, honest look at their failures on October 7th, now that the.

[A]

The hostage issue is resolved. Looking back at the arguments of the Israeli government, do you think that there was at least some logic in their prioritization of the defeat of Hamas over the return of the hostages? I think everybody would agree and assume that if your family member is taken hostage, that's all you really care about. It's not your job to worry about grand historical international diplomacy and military affairs. But now, looking back, do you think there was some merit in terms of the way the government wanted to pursue the last two and a half years?

[B]

Look, I'm not a policy expert, I'm not a diplomat, but I know there was a deal on the table that Prime Minister Netanyahu and. And the people closest to him rejected early on to release the hostages because Hamas would still be in there. And we could not have gone in and defended what happened to on October 7th. And that's why we need an investigation, because that is part of what we need to learn is why there wasn't a deal. But look, I also know that when Abigail, the deal for the women and children at the end of November was presented, there are people in the government, in the cabinet that voted against a release of women and children. If it were not for President Biden, Abigail and 105 women and children would not have been released. If it were not for President Trump, the remaining hostages, alive and deceased, would not have been released. It is because of the US Government and the pressure and the Qataris mediating from the beginning to the end is why the hostages were released. It was never because of Prime Minister Netanyahu deciding that that was his priority or, you know, his meaning his government's priority. And look, we met, and I write about it In July of 2024 with President Biden, with Prime Minister Netanyahu at the White House. We were invited by President Biden, and it was him and his team. And it was a meeting of American hostage families. So these were people that had. Somebo was American, and it was a small group. And the reason I set this up is because it was. It was so emotional. And Aviva Siegel was there, and. And she was crying and others were crying. And at one point, I. I don't know, something inside of me, I rose up and I. Not physically, but inside. And I looked at Prime Minister Netanyahu and at President Biden and. And I said, enough. These people are suffering. Abigail came home, but these people are suffering every day. I don't know what it feels like. I know what it felt like for 51 days to fight for my loved one. I don't know what it feels like to be doing this almost a year later. Every day, keep in mind, every day you wake up and you're just. What more can I do? When you wake up and you. Then at the end of the day, you're like, I didn't do enough. There's still a hostage. And I could just feel the room. And I looked at President Biden and I looked at Prime Minister Netanyahu and I said, what are you going to do? And President Biden said, I'm going to do everything for the rapid release of all the hostages. You have my commitment. And I looked at Prime Minister Netanyahu and he said the same as the President. And I said, okay, well then why aren't we getting them done? Well, we have a deal that's very close. And then when Prime Minister Netanyahu got back to Israel, there was no deal he was going to sign. I don't know what happened from the time he left the White House. He went to Florida, he went to Israel. He continued to do the work of getting rid of Hamas and its leaders, but he didn't do a deal. And there was a deal. No matter what anyone says right now, I know there was a deal. But what I also know was that within a month, Hirsch Goldberg, Poland, Carmel Gott, Idun Yerushalami and three other beautiful young men, these beautiful six young people, they were executed by Hamas. And had that deal gone through, they would have been home, they would be alive.

[A]

You write throughout the book that and throughout the two and a quarter year ordeal, that the perspective of the American officials was much more empathetic and sympathetic than what the families experienced from Israeli public officials. Why do you think that's the case?

[B]

Look, I'm an American. I'm a proud American. I realize that I am very fortunate to be in this country with all of its craziness. I'm very blessed to be an American. On October 7th and the weeks after and the months after, what I saw was that we had a US Government, we had President Biden and his team working to bring home the hostages for the first year in a few months. But we had Democrats and Republicans on the left and on the right wanting to help bring home these hostages. It was incredible. So it wasn't a matter of what party you were in or what religion you were in. They wanted to come together to try to bring home the hostages, end the fighting. And by the way, if you ask them, yes, and to support the people living in Gaza, to not be in a war zone. And I think that the reason they were there is because they actually cared. It was a humanitarian crisis. It was an attack on Israel, an ally of a US in, in the Middle East. And, and they understood the cruelty and the butchery that took place in Israel that day. And so when you ask the question, then why not the Israeli government? I'm not an Israeli. I love Israel. I've spent a lot of time in Israel. I consider it like a home. I'm not an Israeli. I've never voted. But I just call it a lack of leadership. It's gotta be a lack of failure of leadership. Not to meet with hostage families, not to consistently be there as a government for your people, for a massacre that took place on your land that many would argue that you were not protecting. So I don't understand how that is. But I know in our family's case that nobody ever reached out to us from the Israeli Knesset, from the Netanyahu team and said, how can we help you? How is Abigail Nobody. But I do know that President Biden on the release of Abigail, called myself and my brother in law as the car that she was in, the van that she was in, crossed into Israeli territory with just the words, she's back in Israel, she's safe. And I've seen President Trump with hostage families that came out after January 20th of 2025, when Idan Alexander came out and when these hostages came out in October, reaching out and being there and Steve Witkoff and being there, we just didn't see that with the Prime Minister and with the leaders in the Cabinet of Israel.

[A]

Could you take us back to the day that Abigail and others were released? How much notice did you get in advance and how did you hear the news and how did you see her release?

[B]

So first, Abigail was not released on the first day and Abigail was not released on the second day. The way it worked was that there was a list that would come out, Hamas would prepare and that it would be sent to Israel and to America. And those families would be advised, your loved one, your child or your a woman or a child is going to be released. And on the first night before the actual release, we got a call saying that she wasn't on the list. And on that first day we saw women and children. And while it wasn't Abigail, I was like, thank God, thank Joe Biden, thank Qataris, thank the Jews and the people around the world pushing for the release of these hostages. This first group is back. And then the second day, that same night, for the second day, there was a list and Abigail wasn't on that list. And again, my heart fell for myself and for our family and for my sister in law whose grandchild was sitting there as a hostage. But beautiful women and children came out on day two, same thing that night we waited and there was a delay and around 2 in the morning, Israel time, there was a notification that Abigail was on that list. And so then we had to wait the whole day to see the van and see everything. And that day and the group that got released, there was a woman who was ill, so they had to take a side tour and drop her off at a hospital. I mean, there was A whole thing. But until. And even with President Biden calling us, until I saw. And we had screens going in my apartment in New York, Israeli news, cnn, and until I saw Abigail in my niece Laron's arms and in Shlomit, her grandmother's arms, I couldn't believe it. I wouldn't believe it. And it was like at that moment that I could just cry and just let it all go because, you know, to get it done, I just felt like, you have to be stoic. You gotta keep going. And it was at that moment that I could just say, okay, thankfully, Abigail is back with our family. Her parents are gone, her home is destroyed, but she is safe in our arms.

[A]

Did all five of them come out together?

[B]

Yes. So in the end, what I started to see was like, they were letting out groups based on they came from. So they were like different kibbutzes, different communities. And on that third day was kids and women from kibbutz Kfar Aza, where Abigail was taken. So when she was released, she was with Hagar and her three children, and she was with, for example, Aviva Siegel, who was from her kibbutz. So it was that group on the third day that came from Kfar Aza.

[A]

And I remember seeing the famous picture of President Biden holding Abigail in. In his arms. How. How much later did that happen, and what was the background to that?

[B]

So that happened in April of 2024. And after she was released, I was told if, you know, if the family's ever in Washington, D.C. like, the president would love to meet her. And we were going to Washington, D.C. and the family was coming to New York to be in the holidays for Pesach after October 7th. And keep in mind, this is a family that just was just traumatized. I mean, now there are six kids. So Abigail's released. Michael and Amali and Abigail are adopted by my niece Laron and her husband and their three children. It's a beautiful thing, but at this point, everybody was just very traumatized and basically just working on how do you just get up each morning and start your day? And so one of the things that we arranged was to go to the White House and meet President Biden. And what I understood was that we were just gonna have a little visit, then they were gonna take a few photos, and then we were going to, you know, have a tour of the White House and go home. We ended up spending about an hour and a half with President Biden. And he was alone. He didn't have assistance. He didn't have People there. He takes the kids into his office and he shows them where he works, and he shows them the pictures on the wall of other kids that had drawn art and that he was gonna put their art. Met with Lyron and Zoli, my niece and nephew, to talk about their loss and what they had to go through and what they were going through. And then he went outside and he showed us where the kids could play. And I think that one of the things that I took away from that was one, he is a man of empathy, and he really, truly cared about not only Abigail, but all the hostages. And he said as we left that day, I'm going to keep doing everything I can until all the hostages are going to come home. This is the work I am committed to. And unfortunately, he did not finish that, because he couldn't. But until the last moment, he did try to do that work, and he tried to pass it on to the Trump administration so that the work would continue. But one of the things that I'll just end on is I thought about, like, Abigail and the kids running around in the Oval Office and in the White House and their freedom, and I thought, this is democracy. This is what we are supposed to be about. Children that are running around free. And then I thought about what Abigail went through as a hostage in the dark, silenced, dirty, starving, no hygiene. And I thought to myself, like, we've got to do better for children. We've got to do better for all of our children. And that that picture can never happen again, and we, as humans, can never be okay with it. Now, not everybody can run through the White House, I get that. But it should be that idea of children are free, children are protected, children are loved, and children are cared for. And on that day, that's what I felt was the most beautiful part, was that Abigail was able to be a child.

[A]

How are Mikhail and Amalia doing? They, too, went through incredibly traumatic experiences.

[B]

Look, they are 11 and 8. Michael loves soccer. Football. We don't call it soccer in Israel. We call it football. And he's a really good player. And I was there recently, and I got to watch him play a game. He got a header goal. He's doing okay. He's really, like, passionate about playing sports and playing soccer, but he's also just a good boy. He goes to school, and he has good friends, and he's. He's just. Thank God what he went through. He basically was on the phone with this woman all day long, and knowing that his mother's body was laying there and that he had to make sure that he and his sister, who was two and a half years younger, we're going to be okay. He's nine years old. This is what he experienced. And Amalia, who at the time was six, is in this. And they're silenced because their chair is coming in and out of their house. So when you ask, how are they doing, I need people to understand that is how two children spent 14 hours and they weren't in a safe room, they were literally in a cupboard, like in a. On top of clothes, just lying there waiting to be saved. And so when I tell you he's running around playing soccer and doing well and loving the sport and being very good player and finding passion, it is just hugely emotional. And I'll tell you, when he scored that header and everyone's screaming, mija, Michael. I was like, I started bawling because I understood where and what this moment meant. It isn't a normal kid who scores a goal. And Amalia is a beautiful 8 year old and she is got friends and she does well in school and she does her homework. And these kids are just loved. And that is what we are so blessed that after all the tragedy, they have so much love at this point in their lives.

[A]

Liz, you write about the numerous meetings you had with American officials. And what particularly struck me was you write about your meetings with some of the progressive political representatives, members of Congress, and you were disappointed in some of those meetings. Could you describe that?

[B]

I will say, On October 6th, I went to bed. I had been a Democrat for my whole life, and I supported Democratic candidates. And I had this idealistic view and I believe that I was doing incredible work. And then on October 7, I still believed I had done incredible work. But I woke up and I was like, my family's in need. And I put away in my head, even before being a hostage advocate, the idea of Democrat or Republican. I'm an American. I am an American, and I'm going to do what I can to help support my family and the people who suffered on October 7th. And then about a week and a half later, I find myself on Capitol Hill talking to Democrats and Republicans, men, men and women. And what I learned was that I could talk to anyone if I talked about the heart and humanity of this moment. What happened to my family on October 7? That terrorists with one goal, overriding goal, to murder my family and others living in Israel, Jews and non Jews, was what happened on October 7th. And I spoke to people on the far left and people on the far right. But there was one story with a congresswoman who. And I'm not going to say the name, I'm just going to say a congresswoman who I had met with her staff on Thursday, and I was leaving for the weekend. They leave for the weekend, the Congress folks. And I was coming back Tuesday, and she wanted to meet with me. And I said, great. But over the weekend, she tweeted from the river to the sea. And that said to me that she wasn't really serious in wanting to understand what happened to my family. And I just wanted to have a human story. I wasn't there to say one side was correct or one side was wrong. I was literally wanting to share about my family, get Abigail back, get the hostages back. So I like to focus on. Even though I understand the nature of your question, my focus has always been on how do we keep Democrats, Republicans together for the hostages. And thankfully, now they're back. And look, I really, truly believe that if it were not for America and Joe Biden and the mediation of the Qataris, that Abigail may not have come out of Gaza. We saw what happened when there was no negotiating, and we saw what happened when there was left up to Hamas and Israel leadership choosing not to make a deal.

[A]

You've been a Democratic activist, I think, your whole adult life. Does it worry you, first of all, is that true? Are they gaining strength? Are they on the ascendancy in the Democratic Party? And whether they are or not, are you worried about the future or the bipartisan support for Israel?

[B]

We have to keep bipartisan support for Israel, and we have to acknowledge that there's people on the far left and the far right of our country and our government that don't want to support Israel in the same ways as that. I think that Israel should be supported by a bipartisan United States government. I think there's a problem in America with not knowing really the truth of why Israel exists because it's the native land of the Jewish people for thousands of years. And I'm tired of being in a place where I have to defend that Israel has a right to exist. We don't question the rights of France to exist based on what we like or don't like about the leader that day or that country that day. We don't question if Qatar has a right to exist or Indonesia has a right to exist or Japan has a right to exist, or I could keep going. So I think that what we need to do is change our narrative, which says Israel is a nation and it is a democratic nation. Yeah, it's imperfect, but so is America. And I think that where we've come, and I am probably will get a lot of hate texts for this one. But we can love Israel, but not support necessarily where the government is going. We can love Israel, which I do, and I've lived there and I give so much. And I think it's the most incredible place. And my family is. And not to be able to say there are some faults or not to say we need to understand what happened on October 7, because what we've become now, and this is where I find this much more of an interesting question is why is it that when you criticize Israel, the government of Israel, you're automatically pushed out and you're automatically, like, anti. Because for me, like, I can say that I. And I've said it to you, and I'll say it like, I don't think the Israeli leadership did enough to bring home Abigail. But the Israeli people, the nation of Israel, what those people did, showing up every weekend at Hostage Square and fighting and, and doing everything amidst all the horror to bring home the hostages. Israel is one of the most special, most beautiful places, yes, geography wise, but humans, this, the concept of Jews, Tikkun Ulam. And you know, that does not mean Tikkun Yehudim, doesn't mean we just take care of Jews, we take care of the world. I am so proud. I'm a Jewish person. I am so proud to be a supporter of the state of Israel. But in that same breath, we can also look and say that there's things that we need to work on, there are things that we need to see for Israel. So I will not let a Democratic group or Republican group throw out Israel based on whatever their agenda is. I am going to keep talking to both sides and I do this work, which is how do we talk about the beauty of the nation of Israel and the importance of this nation that's not going anywhere and that is just going to keep getting stronger.

[A]

My last question to you, Liz, is have you learned something you didn't know about human nature or something about human nature that was strengthened in you as a result of the last two and a quarter years?

[B]

I have. I've learned a lot. I grew up in a family where you helped people, whether it was the federation or Jewish Family Service or different organizations that were feeding people in your communities? And on October 7, I also woke up in another role, which was, I need help. And I wasn't good at that because I was good at giving help. And so I didn't understand what it meant to need help. But this hostage fighting for my loved ones and staying in it even after Abigail was released. And I also, I always say this, which is amidst all the antisemitism that you have been referencing. The Jewish people stood together with our allies, many in the Christian world and many in the Muslim world, and brought back 250 hostages. And let me tell you, that is something to be a part of that gives you an understanding of if we can work together, we can accomplish a lot. And so those people that tore down the picture of Abigail back in October and November of 2023, and many others, they didn't win. We won because we stayed together and we brought back Abigail and these hostages. What we didn't do was that we didn't do it quick enough and we didn't save enough lives. But we never gave up. And my message, and this is what I've learned to do, is to remind us all that we can be leaders. You may not wake up tomorrow and have your great niece as a hostage, or your niece and her husband murdered in Israel, but we all wake up some days and we feel like, oh, my God, what can we do to fix something? And we all can do it. So, as a long way of answering your question, which is, I think what I understood was that I could do more than just helping others, that I really could be more in this fight to do good in the world. And even with the hostages home, I hope I continue to do good in the world and make a difference. Because I look at Abigail and Michael and Amalia and the other kids, Daniela and Zohar and Imbar, and we can't leave them in this world. It's all up to us, because we all have our kids and we all have our grandkids. And so it's that keeping in the fight, but it's working together.

[A]

Liz, Hersh Naftali, thank you very much for what you've done, what you're doing now, what you will do. It's an honor to speak with you, and I'm so pleased that the family is recovering, and I hope that you live a long and fruitful and contributing life as well, both to the Jewish people as well as the world entire. So thank you very much and good luck. Listening to Liz and reading her book brought back all the memories and emotions of these past 27 months. The sadness, the despondency, the pain, the grief, the helplessness, the anger that still burns inside of me at the indescribable savagery that hamas perpetrated on October 7th. They murdered over 1200 people. On that day of infamy, 251 were taken hostage, 41 of them murdered in captivity. Hamas stole grandparents, peace activists, Holocaust survivors and children. They held three year old Abigail hostage for 51 days. They murdered her parents in front of her and her two siblings. The youngest hostage was nine month old Kfir Bibas, kidnapped with his four year old brother Ariel and their mother Shiri. The boys were strangled to death in captivity and Shiri too was murdered by her captors. Shiri's parents were murdered on October 7. Their father Yarden was kidnapped and eventually released after nearly 500 days in captivity. The family that he built with Shiri erased from the face of the earth. And I still feel betrayed by those who we thought were our allies in the struggle for human decency. Those who we thought believed like we did in international law, basic human rights, the protection of women and children and the defense of liberal Western values. Their hatred of Israel and their blind support for Hamas lengthened the war and brought unnecessary, immeasurable suffering to the Palestinians of Gaza. Do Those who proclaimed October 7th as a glorious day of resistance even care about the Gassens? Or was all this some kind of morality play, using Palestinian civilians as human shields for their grandiose intersectional theories? How in God's name can this barbarism be justified? On one of my visits to Israel, I met with an Israeli mental health expert who emphasized that recovery from trauma requires that trauma to be empathetically recognized by others. I think this was and remains the most difficult part of recovery for me. The refusal to this day, of those who who should know better, or at least I assumed had better intentions, who offer no empathy, who betray what they said were their foundational values in explaining, justifying, distinguishing or excusing the brutal savagery. Jewish history will never be the same. We will never go back to what was. Israel's defense strategy, will never be what it was on October 6. The IDF will not allow threats to gather on Israel's borders. And we in the west will never return to an unreserved trust in our former allies and partners who so betrayed us and their own values. We will be much more wary of their true motives. What kind of person tears down the picture of a three year old hostage? Woe to that person whose soul has so rotted. Woe to their parents who raised them. Woe to their teachers who taught them. At the same time, I have had moments of enormous uplift as well. Millions of good people worldwide refused to betray their values. The number of Israeli heroes emerging from that awful October 7th day is awe inspiring. And there were heroes like Liz, the families of hostages who never rested and never ceased advocating on behalf of their loved ones. Whether you agreed with the Israeli government's calculus or not, the families had only one to get their loved ones home. Their determination and resolve and fortitude in the face of immeasurable pain purposely exploited and exacerbated by Hamas and their Western supporters. Their heroism will be recorded in the annals of Jewish civilization in perpetuity. Now is the time for recovery. For the first time in 14 years, there are no Israeli hostages in Gaza. Israelis and Jews worldwide and all decent human beings can breathe again. Despite our pain and disappointment, we must try to rebuild alliances that were shattered. May Abigail and all the children whose lives were crushed during this long war, Israeli and Palestinian, find their way back to joy and happiness. May they grow up to live long, full and productive lives devoted to humanity. Empathy and well being for all of God's children. Until next time. This is in these times.