Podcast Summary: "Walter Russell Mead" on In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch
Introduction
In the February 6, 2025 episode of In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch, hosted by Rabbi Ammi Hirsch of the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue in New York, renowned scholar Walter Russell Mead delves into the intricate dynamics of the American-Israel relationship. As a distinguished fellow at the Hudson Institute, a Global View columnist at the Wall Street Journal, and the Alexander Hamilton Professor of Strategy and Statecraft at the University of Florida, Mead brings a wealth of knowledge to this intellectually stimulating conversation. The episode explores historical contexts, contemporary events, and future projections concerning Israel, American foreign policy, and the broader geopolitical landscape.
Israel and the American-Israel Relationship
Mead begins by unpacking the unique bond between the United States and Israel, highlighting how anti-Semitism has historically shaped this relationship. He asserts that while anti-Semitism has never been absent in American history, its manifestations in the U.S. have differed in intensity and form compared to Europe.
"Anti-Semitism in general, the peaks have been lower and the valleys deeper... Charleston, South Carolina, was known as one of the most hospitable cities to Jews in the world in the 18th and 19th centuries." [02:11]
Mead emphasizes that the American perspective on Jews has evolved from viewing them as a cultural and religious threat to seeing their presence as a reaffirmation of Christian theological beliefs. This shift was particularly significant during the English Reformation, where Jews became a symbol of the resilience of Christian doctrine rather than a point of contention.
"Jews, instead of a source of fear and uncertainty, become a source of reassurance." [03:55]
Historical Support and Shifts in Left-Wing Attitudes
The conversation transitions to the historical support Israel received from both the left and the right in its formative years during the 1940s and 1950s. Mead explains that European philosemitism was predominantly rooted in leftist ideology, contrasting with the right's clerical Catholic tendencies.
"European philosemitism has generally speaking been rooted in the left... during World War II, Zionism was incredibly popular in the left." [09:13]
However, post the Six-Day War in 1967, significant geopolitical shifts altered the dynamics. France's repositioning after the Algerian War and the rise of Arab nationalism diminished traditional European support for Israel. Additionally, the evolution of American foreign policy, especially under leaders like Nixon and Kissinger, began to associate strong anti-Israel sentiments with opposition to American imperialism and capitalism.
"Anti-Semitism around the world is associated with suspicion, fear, and opposition to capitalism." [09:13]
Contemporary Middle East Politics and Tensions
Mead addresses the volatile state of the Middle East, particularly in light of recent events such as the October 7th attacks. He underscores the inherent tension between Israeli skepticism of international liberalism and the American Jewish community's faith in these very ideals.
"Israel's a stronger party, we're never going to have peace in the Middle East and therefore never going to have world peace unless Israel will make more concessions to the Palestinians." [20:20]
This skepticism is deeply rooted in the historical realization that liberal internationalism, embodied by institutions like the United Nations, has often failed to protect Jewish interests effectively. Mead contrasts the American Jewish perspective, which relies on liberalism for protection and integration, with the Israeli perspective, which is shaped by a need for self-reliance and realpolitik.
"American Jews, many of them have tended to become more invested in liberalism as the only path forward for solving their own personal situation in the United States as Israel has moved further away from what maybe a liberal idealist would prescribe as the right policy." [28:16]
Future Projections: American Foreign Policy and the Abraham Accords
Looking ahead, Mead provides his analysis of American foreign policy shifts under different administrations. He contrasts the liberal internationalist approach of Barack Obama with the transactional pragmatism of Donald Trump.
"Trump has much more the instincts of a Middle Easterner than Obama did, which may or may not make him a better person or a greater leader or any of those things." [34:52]
Mead speculates on the potential expansion of the Abraham Accords, attributing their success to regional fears of Iran and diminishing confidence in American reliability.
"The increased fear of Iran by everybody else in the region and their decreased confidence in the Americans... is what drove the Abraham Accords." [36:26]
He cautions against viewing these accords as a long-term reconciliation akin to post-World War II Franco-German relations, highlighting their transactional nature based on immediate national interests.
American vs. European Left-Wing Perspectives on Israel
Mead delves into the generational and ideological shifts that have led to varying levels of support for Israel among left-wing groups in Europe and America. He notes that the European left's early support for Israel was intertwined with their anti-fascist stance and opposition to colonialism. However, as American pro-Israel sentiment solidified post-1973, European left-wing factions began to view support for Israel as contradictory to their broader ideals.
"With immigration and America becoming more identified with being Pro Israel... electoral logic combines with kind of cultural and political logic to create this force." [17:12]
In contrast, the American left remains less radical and slower to shift its stance, maintaining a broader consensus of pro-Israel support compared to its European counterparts.
"The American left, on every issue, not just Israel, tends to be less radical than the European left and slower to develop." [17:24]
Reflections on Herzl and the Foundation of Zionism
A pivotal part of the conversation centers on Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern Zionism. Mead provides an insightful analysis of Herzl's motivations, rooted in a pessimistic view of the Enlightenment's ability to protect Jews from anti-Semitism.
"Herzl's profound insight was European Enlightenment would, despite its good intentions, perhaps never be able to protect the Jews." [24:53]
Herzl concluded that the Enlightenment's tools—mass communication, science, and reason—could be repurposed against Jews, leading to the catastrophic events of the Holocaust. Hence, Zionism emerged as a movement of self-reliance and skepticism towards Western liberalism.
"American Jews, by and large, are people for whom Herzl so far was wrong. And Israeli Jews are people for whom by and large, Herzl was right." [25:53]
Impact of Recent Events: October 7th and Beyond
Reflecting on the October 7th attacks, Mead discusses the resultant changes in the Middle East and their implications for American Jews and Israel. He highlights the increasing anti-liberal sentiments and anti-Jewish sentiments within American left-wing circles, exacerbated by events in the Middle East.
"The Israeli skepticism of the international ability to protect the State of Israel... is the source of the tension with the American government and with American Jews." [27:16]
This tension manifests in American Jews clinging more fervently to liberal ideals as they navigate newfound hostility and the precarious security landscape of Israel.
Broader Reflections on Modern Times and Future Challenges
In his concluding remarks, Mead broadens the discussion to the information revolution's impact on global stability and governance. He likens the current era to the industrial revolution, emphasizing unprecedented rates of change and institutional instability.
"We cannot think that what we are moving into is a world either of domestic stability or of international stability." [42:19]
Mead expresses a nuanced outlook, balancing fear with hope grounded in faith. He underscores the importance of professions like Rabbi Hirsch's in navigating these tumultuous times.
"Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, but also trust in the Lord is the grounds of all hope." [45:34]
Key Insights and Conclusions
Throughout the episode, Mead weaves a narrative that underscores the complexity of Jewish self-determination against the backdrop of shifting geopolitical realities and evolving ideological landscapes. His analysis highlights:
-
Historical Context: The transition from viewing Jews as a threat to seeing them as affirmations of theological beliefs in America, contrasted with European left-wing support shifting over decades.
-
Zionism's Foundation: Herzl's skepticism of the Enlightenment's capacity to protect Jews, leading to the establishment of Israel as a bastion of self-reliance and realpolitik.
-
Current Geopolitical Tensions: The strain between Israeli policies grounded in skepticism of international institutions and American liberal ideals believing in their efficacy to safeguard Jewish interests.
-
Future Outlook: The potential for continued shifts in American foreign policy, the possible expansion of the Abraham Accords, and the overarching instability driven by rapid technological and informational changes.
Mead's discourse provides a profound understanding of the enduring tensions and evolving dynamics that shape the American-Israel relationship and the broader Middle Eastern geopolitical landscape.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps
-
On Anti-Semitism in America:
"Anti-Semitism in general, the peaks have been lower and the valleys deeper... Charleston, South Carolina, was known as one of the most hospitable cities to Jews in the world in the 18th and 19th centuries." [02:11] -
On the Shift in Left-Wing Support:
"European philosemitism has generally speaking been rooted in the left... during World War II, Zionism was incredibly popular in the left." [09:13] -
On Herzl's Skepticism:
"Herzl's profound insight was European Enlightenment would, despite its good intentions, perhaps never be able to protect the Jews." [24:53] -
On the Information Revolution:
"We cannot think that what we are moving into is a world either of domestic stability or of international stability." [42:19]
Conclusion
Walter Russell Mead's appearance on In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch offers an in-depth exploration of the historical and contemporary factors shaping the American-Israel relationship. By intertwining historical analysis with current geopolitical developments, Mead provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the complexities and enduring challenges faced by Jewish communities both in Israel and the diaspora. This episode serves as a crucial resource for anyone seeking to grasp the nuanced interplay between ideology, policy, and identity in today's rapidly changing world.