Podcast Summary: In These Times with Rabbi Ammi Hirsch
Episode: Yaakov Katz
Date: October 9, 2025
Host: Rabbi Ammi Hirsch | Guest: Yaakov Katz
Location: Stephen Wise Free Synagogue, New York
Overview
This episode features a deep and urgent conversation between Rabbi Ammi Hirsch and Yaakov Katz, former Jerusalem Post editor-in-chief and author of While Israel Slept. The discussion revolves around Israel’s operational and strategic failures on October 7th, 2023, the absence of official investigative commissions, Israeli societal dynamics, and the moral, political, and global ramifications of the ongoing conflict. Katz shares insights derived from his new book, widely regarded as the closest available account to an official commission. The dialogue remains nuanced yet passionate, with frank assessments of political leadership, security misjudgments, and the complexities of Israel’s situation post-October 7.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Book and Its Purpose
- While Israel Slept was conceived as an exploration of Israel’s advanced precision strike capabilities, but pivoted post-October 7 to become an urgent investigation into how such a catastrophic failure occurred.
- Extensive research: interviews with hundreds of officials, from IDF top brass to political leaders.
- Offers a comprehensive narrative for understanding the operational and strategic collapses, but Katz warns it is no substitute for a true state commission.
“We decided this was going to be the book. And it took us about a year... just of meeting hundreds of different people, literally hundreds. And then the writing took about another six to eight months or so.” — Yaakov Katz [06:36]
2. The Stryker Center Protest Incident
- Katz discusses protest interruptions during a recent book event, reflecting rising tensions regarding Israeli voices in American public spaces.
- Interference from protesters was frequent, emotional, and indicative of the polarized American climate on Israel.
“No matter what I said, it doesn’t make a difference. Every few minutes, someone popped up from some row and just starts yelling, genocide... It was very disturbing.” — Yaakov Katz [03:07]
3. Why No Commission of Inquiry?
- Israel’s lack of an official commission is attributed to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s refusal, fearing personal accountability.
- Historical context: Netanyahu has never established a commission on any major disaster during his 18-year tenure, citing Lag BaOmer 2021 as an example.
“He won’t do it. Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister, because two reasons. One, he knows what they’ll find... And he doesn’t want it.” — Yaakov Katz [09:47]
4. The Cumulative Strategic & Operational Failures
- Despite Israel's renowned military intelligence and technology, a pervasive "conceptia" (strategic dogma) led to the misjudgment of the Hamas threat.
- The containment approach: advanced technology (Iron Dome, tunnel barricades), focus on larger threats (Iran, Hezbollah), and political leveraging of Palestinian division.
- Katz is clear: the belief that Hamas could be managed or bought off was a “fairy tale,” and policies across successive governments—Netanyahu, Bennett, Lapid—failed to alter this perilous status quo.
“We believed in a fairy tale. We believed that a genocidal terrorist group could live alongside us and we could contain it, we could deter it, we could literally buy it off…” — Yaakov Katz [17:17]
5. The October 7th Attack: What the Book Reveals
- Extensive warnings and intelligence indicators were present on October 6th, but misinterpreted or discounted as drills.
- No Israeli human intelligence assets were operating inside Gaza—a result of over-reliance on technological intelligence and underestimation of human threats.
- On the day of, communication and command breakdowns, along with targeted Hamas strikes on sensors and comm lines, delayed Israeli military response drastically. Many survivors’ first words to rescuers: “What took you so long?”
“It wasn’t for lack of information, it was that we lacked imagination.” — Yaakov Katz [25:19]
“There was not one human informant on the ground.” — Yaakov Katz [30:53]
6. Israeli Hubris & Societal Psychology
- Rabbi Hirsch draws parallels to the Yom Kippur War’s surprise; Katz agrees arrogance and a sense of invincibility contributed.
- Strategic and tactical planning were shaped by the belief that Hamas lacked both the means and the intent to execute a mass attack—a profound misreading.
“We had a sense of arrogance, of hubris when it came to a strategic surprise that was being prepared for us.” — Yaakov Katz [32:44]
7. The Moral Clarity & “Winning” in War
- Post-October 7, Hamas succeeded in several objectives: disrupting normalization with Saudi Arabia, refocusing global attention on Palestine, causing unprecedented Israeli vulnerability, and inciting global isolation for Israel.
- Despite suffering military setbacks, Hamas’s willingness to weaponize civilian casualties and strategic failures in Israel’s international advocacy complicate perceptions of who is ‘winning.’
“If I’m Hamas … I am winning right now … The lives of the people of Gaza are a weapon in the war against Israel.” — Yaakov Katz [48:34]
8. Antisemitism and Western Media
- Katz, once a media defender, now characterizes much of Western media and political behavior as rooted in antisemitism and discomfort with Jewish strength.
- The global response to events after October 7, including ICC warrants and diplomatic isolation, is framed as a dangerous reversion to anti-Jewish tropes.
“They smelled Jewish blood and they saw an opportunity. We were beaten, we were weakened. We were vulnerable.” — Yaakov Katz [56:19]
9. Is This Netanyahu’s War?
- While Netanyahu’s policy legacy is central—especially the “containing” of Hamas—Katz argues that opposition figures likely would have taken similar actions initially post-October 7.
- However, Katz suggests other leaders might have ended the war sooner and articulates that both blame and credit for shifting Middle Eastern dynamics must go to Netanyahu.
“He is responsible and should be held accountable. But... October 7th is a coin with two sides. One side is the utter failure... but the other side of that coin is the re-engineering of the Middle East.” — Yaakov Katz [58:39]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Where were you? What took you so long?” — Survivors to Israeli rescuers [38:33]
- “I think that there are unfortunately large parts of the world and of Western civilization and society, they do not want to see a strong Jewish state of Israel. They want to see us weak and beaten down. That is the Jewish that they want to see in front of them.” — Yaakov Katz [55:10]
- “Hamas is an asset … because when Obama would come to Bibi and say, listen, you got to establish a Palestinian state … what are you talking about? They don’t even get along.” — Yaakov Katz [21:40]
Key Timestamps
- 03:07 — Protesters at Stryker Center event, American climate for Israeli voices
- 06:36 — Book research process: scope and methodology
- 09:47 — Lack of commission: Netanyahu’s accountability avoidance
- 17:17 — The “fairy tale” of deterring or containing Hamas
- 25:19 — “Conceptia” dogma and intelligence failures
- 30:53 — No Israeli human intelligence assets inside Gaza
- 32:44 — Societal hubris and strategic blindness
- 38:33 — Operational chaos and survivor experiences from October 7th
- 48:34 — On Hamas’s strategic “successes” post-October 7
- 55:10 — Katz’s assessment of Western critique and antisemitism
- 58:39 — Netanyahu’s responsibility—and unintended achievements—in the war
Tone & Language
The episode is personal, reflective, and unflinchingly critical where needed. Both Rabbi Hirsch and Yaakov Katz combine a seriousness of historical analysis with a compelling sense of urgency and moral gravity. The conversation is open but carries the weight of recent trauma and the challenges ahead—both for Israel’s security and for its global standing.
For Further Reading
- While Israel Slept by Yaakov Katz and Amir Bochbot—recommended by both speakers as a critical account for anyone wishing to understand the collapse and ongoing challenges faced by Israel.
Shanah Tovah — Best wishes from the Stephen Wise Free Synagogue to all listeners.
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