EP 100: Sanctification Is Hard: The Process, the Pain & God’s Purpose [LIVE Episode]

Summary

Podcast Summary: In Totality with Megan Ashley

Episode 100: Sanctification Is Hard – The Process, the Pain & God’s Purpose [LIVE]
Date: December 9, 2025
Host: Megan Ashley | Guest: Jackie
Theme: Living honestly through the challenges of sanctification—what it feels like, how it impacts our lives and relationships, and the importance of community and grace in God’s sanctifying work.

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Episode Overview

This milestone 100th episode, recorded live, features a heartfelt conversation between Megan Ashley and her friend and Bible teacher Jackie on the process of sanctification. They candidly explore why sanctification is hard, how feelings intersect with faith and obedience, and the crucial roles of honesty, perseverance, and friendship in spiritual growth. The episode weaves practical theology with lived experience, offering encouragement for those struggling on their journey with Christ.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Sanctification and Its Struggles

(02:36–05:03, 11:32–13:34, 15:45–16:40)

• Sanctification is “the process by which we are conformed into the image of Christ” (Jackie, 13:01)
• It’s not about the absence of sin or struggle, but about continually learning to put specific sins to death.
• The struggle comes from indwelling sin—habits, coping mechanisms, or responses developed over a lifetime that don’t naturally reflect Christ.
• Real Christian maturity isn’t driven by feelings but by faith and obedience, even when God’s commands "feel impractical" (Jackie, 20:33).
• "You don’t have to have it all figured out. You just have to obey… He’s not looking for your perfection. He’s looking for a yes." (Megan, 06:55)

2. Feelings vs. Obedience: What is Proof of God’s Work?

(15:35–20:08)

• Many Christians believe the absence of sinful feelings is what marks sanctification, but actually, obedience in the face of those feelings is evidence of sanctification.
  • “The absence of the feeling is not the evidence of sanctification. It is the obedience of what to do with the feeling.” (Megan, 15:54)
• Feelings, especially passions and desires from the flesh (anger, lust, irritation), shouldn’t dictate decisions—faith should.
  • “Her feelings dictated her decision when her faith should have dictated her decision. Sometimes what we are feeling are actually what the Bible calls passions.” (Jackie, 19:17)
• Trusting God’s word means acting on it even when our emotions lag behind.

3. Persevering When God Doesn’t ‘Lift’ the Struggle

(23:07–30:27)

• It’s common to ask why God doesn’t just take away the struggle (“Why won’t you lift it?”) even though we know He can.
• Frustration and weariness often come from knowing God’s power but not experiencing immediate deliverance.
• Jackie addresses a common misunderstanding: “Some of us have a conception of God—even in Christ—that he still has some justice that he needs to get out on us… That’s us projecting what we would do onto him.” (Jackie, 27:25)
• Megan reminds listeners of the purpose: “He poured out his wrath on his son… So when he sees you, he sees his son now… He does whatever he needs to do to conform you more into the image of his son.” (Megan, 30:21–31:21)

4. Taking Responsibility: Passive vs. Active Sanctification

(33:29–38:31)

• Some Christians are passive, assuming “God will finish the work so I don’t have to work.”
• Sanctification involves “working out” (not for) your salvation (cf. Philippians 2).
  • “There might be a part of your sanctification that you’re just really lazy at. And that’s what’s happening… the Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead lives in you. I mean, how much more do you need?” (Jackie, 37:35)

5. Sanctification’s Impact on Relationships

(38:42–46:09)

• Sanctification isn’t just vertical (God and us), but horizontal (between people).
  • “Sin affects relationships, and therefore, the process of sanctification should help relationships…” (Jackie, 39:39)
• Gifts and ministry effectiveness are not proof of maturity—character is: “How quick to forgive am I? That’s the measure.” (Jackie, 40:08)
• The danger of gifts without repentance—or using gifts apart from the Spirit:
  • “I can be nice and not kind. I can be giving and not selfless… Anything I do independent of the Spirit is coming from a wrong motive.” (Megan, 43:08–44:20)
• Constantly interrogate your motives: “Is the good I’m doing holy or just good?” (Megan, 44:30)
• Christ desires not good people, but holy people.

6. The Practical Power of Abiding

(48:27–50:33)

• Abiding in Christ is the source of fruitfulness:
  • “Apart from me, you can do nothing… The Lord is not pressing you into just doing a bunch of works. He’s pressing you into his Son.” (Jackie, 49:16–49:26)
• Interrogating your heart isn’t to shame you but to make you more aware of your need for God’s help.

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On discouragement and friendship:
  • “I was just in a really bad spot… I thought I was going to have a relapse… The encouragement is, although we were both frustrated with the pace at which God was sanctifying us, he was using the discouragement itself to sanctify us.” (Megan, 51:07–61:55)
• On honest support:
  • “She just showed up… She just read scripture over me… Not that everything changed immediately, but I had a little bit more strength to continue to be faithful.” (Megan, 58:32–61:10)
• On kingdom friendship:
  • “Our relationships should be a reflection of the Lord and it should draw people to Him. If it’s not drawing people to the Lord, what are we doing?” (Megan, 70:19)
• On sanctification as evidence of salvation:
  • “If you are not growing in Christlikeness, then you don’t know Christ.” (Jackie, 73:28)
  • “It does not matter how much scripture you know… if you were born, you were born in sin. And the crazy part is, we love it.” (Jackie, 74:50)

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Detailed Outline with Timestamps

| Timestamp | Section | Summary | |---------------|-------------|-------------| | 02:36–05:03 | Sanctification Defined & Podcast Anniversary | Megan celebrates 100 episodes; Jackie highlights faithful, obedient ministry beginnings; sanctification as being conformed to Christ. | | 09:00–12:42 | Why Sanctification Hurts | Megan opens discussion about honesty, struggle in Christian walk; public vulnerability creates connection. | | 13:34–16:40 | Indwelling Sin & Christian Maturity | The tension between desire and obedience; “Indwelling sin” named and explained as source of struggle. | | 15:54 | Quote: | “It is the obedience of what to do with the feeling that’s evidence of sanctification.” (Megan) | | 19:17–20:33 | Feelings vs. Faith | Passions and feelings aren’t trustworthy—faith should lead us; example of Eve’s obedience to feeling over faith. | | 23:07–30:27 | Weariness with God’s Timing | Longing for God to simply remove sinful desires; the importance of trusting God's process and character. | | 33:29–38:31 | Participating in Sanctification | Active pursuit of holiness; “Work out your salvation” means cooperating with the Spirit, not passivity. | | 38:42–46:09 | Impact on Relationships & Gifts v. Character | Horizontal effects of sanctification; character trumps giftedness; honest self-examination. | | 48:27–50:33 | How to Abide Practically | Depending on Christ day-to-day; heart interrogation increases dependence, not shame. | | 51:07–63:30 | Honest Account of Spiritual Despair & Friendship | Megan shares experience of deep discouragement; Jackie demonstrates selfless presence, comfort through scripture and prayer—practical sanctification in community. | | 64:00–70:19 | The Kingdom Purpose of Godly Friendships | Authentic relationships reflect the gospel—friendships have kingdom implications, not just emotional value. | | 73:28–81:42 | Salvation, Evidence, and Encouragement | Jackie’s gospel reminder: sanctification is the sure fruit of justification; call to honest self-examination; prayer for enduring faithfulness and real relationship with Christ. |

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Concluding Reflections

Vulnerability and transparency—foundational to this episode—demonstrate that sanctification is a lifelong, often painful process filled with triumphs, setbacks, and the vital support of Christian friendship. Megan and Jackie keep returning to God’s purpose: to make us more like Christ, not simply to make us feel better or be “good people.” They remind listeners that the journey is not solitary. Community, honesty, and daily dependence on the Spirit are indispensable for becoming the people God means us to be.

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Selected Quotes by Timestamp

• "He’s not looking for your perfection. He’s looking for a yes."
  — Megan Ashley, (06:55)
• "Being in the process of sanctification is continually learning how to put certain sins to death."
  — Jackie, (13:20)
• "The absence of the feeling is not the evidence of sanctification. It is the obedience of what to do with the feeling."
  — Megan Ashley, (15:54)
• "You want me to do stuff that is actually beyond me. And that’s where sanctification happens."
  — Jackie, (20:33)
• "Some of us have a conception of God—even in Christ—that he still has some justice that he needs to get out on us… That’s us projecting what we would do onto him."
  — Jackie, (27:25)
• "You can have a gift… but anything I do independent of the Spirit is coming from a wrong motive. Is the good I’m doing holy, or is it just good?"
  — Megan Ashley, (44:20–44:30)
• "Apart from me, you can do nothing… The Lord is not pressing you into just doing a bunch of works. He’s pressing you into his Son."
  — Jackie, (49:16–49:26)
• "If you are not growing in Christlikeness, then you don’t know Christ."
  — Jackie, (73:28)

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Final Takeaways

• Sanctification is a messy, ongoing work that cannot be separated from day-to-day decisions, community support, and honesty with ourselves and God.
• Obedience, not feelings, is true evidence of God’s transforming work.
• Friendships rooted in Christ are not just emotional supports but sanctifying forces that propel both people toward God’s purpose.
• The process is hard—but it’s full of hope, and God uses every part of it to make us more like Christ.

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Transcript

[Jackie]

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[Megan Ashley]

Prices and participation may vary.

[Jackie]

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[Megan Ashley]

Filter to save up to $1,500. Book your warm getaway at vrbo.com.

What'S up fam? Listen, if you've been blessed by In Totality the podcast, then I want to personally invite you to go deeper by joining our Patreon community called the Village. Every Tuesday morning, the vil get early access to the full episode of the podcast two days before it drops publicly on YouTube. So while everyone else is waiting, you're already soaking it in. But that's just the beginning. As a Village member, you get exclusive access to the In Totality docu series. It's a behind the scenes look at how I walk on my faith in real life. No filters, no fluff, just real moments of me trusting the Lord, processing life and growing in truth. We also do live book clubs, club zoom calls where we read and grow together in the Word. I'm not just talking at you worth walking through it together, asking questions, wrestling through scriptures, learning to follow Christ more fully. You know, like that Romans 12. You'll also get bonus content, extra conversations with podcast guests that go even deeper, plus moments that didn't make it to the episode but were just too good not to share. And one more thing. When you join the Village, you get first access to merch before it drops public. So if you love the message and you want to rep the movement, you'll get first dibs every time. But more than the content, the Village is about community. It's a safe place for believers to connect and grow and be reminded that you're not doing this walk alone. You're a part of something real. We're building something special and we would love for you to be a part. So hit pause, go to www.patreon.com.sl Megan, Ashley, and join today and I'll meet you there.

I wanted to just talk about sanctification, what it means to be sanctified.

[Jackie]

Sanctification is basically the process by which we are conformed into the image of Christ. Being in the process of sanctification does not necessarily mean you will not struggle with sin. Being in the process of sanctification is continually learning how to put certain sins to death. Real Christian maturity is you have to get to a point where you believe. Believe that he said what he said. Even if you don't feel like doing it, God's law oftentimes feels impractical. You want me to do stuff that is actually beyond me. And that's where sanctification happens. Hello.

[Megan Ashley]

Hey, Jack.

[Jackie]

Hey, girl. Hi, y'. All. Miss Candle wasn't on.

It's like revelation. He like, I'm gonna take that lampstand from you. You keep playing.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

So we're about to start a podcast. Welcome to the In Totality Podcast. I'm your host, Meghan Ashley.

[Jackie]

I'm gonna take.

[Megan Ashley]

I know. It's like, do we need this?

[Jackie]

I'm not gonna play this game. All right.

[Megan Ashley]

You want me to swing it out your way?

[Jackie]

Please.

[Megan Ashley]

All right.

[Jackie]

All right.

[Megan Ashley]

Period. We on my couch.

[Jackie]

Yeah, we are. No, this. Our actual couch. That's what's so crazy. I'm like, yo, actual couch is in the warehouse. But this set is crazy. It's, like, beautiful.

[Megan Ashley]

Ashley.

[Jackie]

Shout out to Ashley.

[Megan Ashley]

Shout out to Ashley.

That girl. You give her two sticks and she will make something fantastic for sure. So Jackie and I wanted to have a conversation. First of all, if you guys don't know, you're tuning in, Lord Will.

All right, friend. Okay.

[Jackie]

Yeah, we, you know, we are children of the day. That's what you said.

[Megan Ashley]

Children of the light.

[Jackie]

Children of the light. Go ahead. I'm not doing that. I gotta hightail myself over there. Girl, no.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Jackie]

If you.

[Megan Ashley]

If you didn't know, Lord willing, you are tuned in to the hundredth episode of In Totality.

Lord, I didn't know I was going to get to 10, but here we are at a hundred, so. Amen. Doing it in front of a live audience.

[Jackie]

How does that feel? How does that feel?

[Megan Ashley]

It feels.

[Jackie]

I know you just expressed how you feel, but how does it feel to even. Because it's a beautiful ministry. It's also a business venture. It's expensive to do podcasts. You know what I'm saying? So to even see the Lord helping you, like you had a situation, a lot of things Changed overnight. And the Lord just has given you incredible favor in ways. Like we was. I was laughing because that first episode, it was like, real purple. You know what I'm saying?

[Megan Ashley]

She was like. It was real basic.

[Jackie]

Yeah, that was real. But you. You did. You did with what you had to do with what you had, and then the Lord has, like, expanded that. I don't know. I just feel like that's a word, and for somebody, it's gotta be. Did you. Do you see your camera quality now? Have you seen it? You got intros. You over here, got Jerry flowers and doctors, lions. And you got all these people that you never met before.

[Megan Ashley]

I know God has been faithful, man. Thank you, God. But thank you. You introduce a. We'll get into that because I could give you a whole hour.

[Jackie]

We don't need that. We don't need that.

[Megan Ashley]

Shout out to my discipler.

[Jackie]

That's weird.

[Megan Ashley]

I just. I mean, it's true. It's true. Don't think that your friends can't be your disciplers too. She has discipled me, and. And our friendship is. Is discipleship. It's, you know, and so anyway, we'll talk about that. But anyway, yeah, it feels. It's interesting. It's a miracle. I think it's a miracle. Like, I look back on the first. The very first episode and how I was. I had no idea what I was doing, what I would say, you know, and the Lord, I just think it's a testimony of obedience and that you don't have to have it all figured out. You just have to obey. That's it. You just gotta obey. He's not looking for your perfection. He's looking for a yes.

And so. I don't know. I said yes. Sure did.

[Jackie]

And you keep saying yes.

[Megan Ashley]

I try my best.

[Jackie]

Because you ain't want to do this, huh? They don't know that part. Because the thing with Megan is, Megan is a servant, but she doesn't necessarily like to serve publicly or out loud. And so whereas there's a lot of people in this culture, in this industry, particularly in Atlanta, who want to be in front of a camera, she does not. And so anytime she does anything where it's a public service is actually very costly. And so even this yes is a very high yes. So again, I'm a gas you as long as I, you know, got a mic in my hand.

[Megan Ashley]

She's a real friend, right?

[Jackie]

What we talking about?

[Megan Ashley]

So I want to let them in on. I want to let them in on some of the conversations that you And I have been having recently.

And so Jackie and I decided that we were going to have this conversation. And just like, our main thing was because she's a Bible teacher, y' all know, she be right. One of the greatest that we have. And truly, truly. Did y' all see. Did y' all watch her talk about behold him?

[Jackie]

Oh, that's crazy. Did y' all see that?

[Megan Ashley]

Did y' all listen to that? Behold it? I was sitting at that True Woman.

[Jackie]

Conference and say, y' all only watched it, cuz y' all seen that clip of me crying. That's the only. That's the only reason y' all like, what. What happened?

[Megan Ashley]

You know, when Jackie is crying, the Lord has said a word, huh? But wasn't a tissue inside, I said. And I was sitting there looking at her on stage like, it's cuz you behold.

So anyway, you know, Jackie can teach the Word and she can do all the things. She's one of the best communicators that we have. But we decided we wanted to just be honest. It wasn't so much about, you know, teaching and instructing, even though it will be edifying. But the heart of this was just to be honest. Sometimes you just need vulnerability and transparency and honesty. And so, because we know what this is like, the Christian walk is hard. The Christian life is hard. And so we just want to invite y' all into a conversation that we've been having recently about sanctification. Has anybody just, by a show of hands, has anybody just been struggling?

Like, just struggling, right? Like, I'm.

And you want to know what's crazy? Is that, like.

Hear me, I'm not happy to see y' all raise yalls hands, but I am happy to see y' all raise yalls hands. Cause it really, like, when you look around and you see other people raise their hand and be like, yo, I'm struggling, bro. That means that, like, God's up to something, that it's not just a personal thing, right? When I see that the body of Christ, for those who are really pursuing him, are united in, like, I'm struggling. It's like, oh, okay, good, good, good. You struggling, too.

[Jackie]

Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I'm saying? It kind of gives you like that. All right, cool, cool. And so, yeah, we just been. We've been struggling recently. And so I just wanted to talk about sanctification, because what I feel like is part of the struggle. And we've talked about this. Is. Is that a train?

I just didn't know I'm like, is it the Rapture? Like, I did. You know what I mean? You know what I'm saying? It's like, I don't know. We're living in kind of crazy times.

[Jackie]

It wouldn't catch me off the fact that these Rapture people keep changing the date. I said, who are y' all listening to? At some point. Can I. Can y' all hear me? I can't hear myself. At some point, it's a spirit being giving y', all, like, wrong calendar dates and planning y' all face and making y' all look crazy.

[Megan Ashley]

Crazy.

[Jackie]

And then y' all over here getting Campbell soup to prepare for the Rapture. Ain't you supposed to leave? Why are you. Why are you preparing to stay?

[Megan Ashley]

So anyway, I kind of just wanted to talk about. Yeah, I just think that saying being sanctified, right, is hard. And I think it's hard because God knows the pace at which he's sanctifying us, and we don't always.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

And I think we have an idea, because the Christian walk. We talked about this, and, you know, Patreon, we've talked about this when we were going through the book. Relax. Like, we have these consolation seasons in our lives where we are feeling the manifest presence of the Lord, and things are great, right? And he's responding, like, you get on your face, and he's like, Jeremiah 29. And you're like, Jeremiah 29, you know, and he, like, gives you a word and he gives you scripture, and he's. You know what I'm saying? Like, and you're. You're in this constant, and you feel that. And then what happens is, is that you go through desolation seasons where his manifest presence isn't like it was when you were here. And that's frustrating, but that's also sanctification. So I wanted to just talk about sanctification, what it means to be sanctified.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I think what came to. Y' all can hear me, though, right? Okay. I think what came to my mind while you were talking, one is to define it and then to speak to why it's difficult. Sanctification is. You know, we toss around a lot of Christian terms, but I think it's helpful to be clear.

Especially because we have a lot of false teachers that will use Christian terms until you ask them what they mean by it. And so we need to be clear. Sanctification is basically the process by which we are conformed into the image of Christ. So sanctification is circumstances, trials, obedience, all of that thing is helping Me look like him. The reason, one of the reasons why sanctification is so difficult is because of this theological object or a subject called indwelling sin. Everybody say indwelling sin.

[Megan Ashley]

Indwelling sin.

[Jackie]

If you read through the Book of Romans, you will run across that phrase a lot, which is to say, as a believer, if you have repented and believed in the Lord Jesus Christ and been filled with his spirit, you have been regenerated, meaning you. You become a new creature, you have been justified, meaning you've been made right with God. But you are also in the process of sanctification. Being in the process of sanctification does not necessarily mean you will not struggle with sin. Being in the process of sanctification is continually learning how to put sins to death. And some of the most difficult sins are sins that are coping mechanisms that we've learned since we were five. You know, some stuff is just natural, and the Lord is trying to move you in the direction of the supernatural. And so I. I talk about indwelling sin because that's the thing, is that the Lord is trying to help us love Christ enough to not love ourselves. The Lord is trying to help us, you know what I'm saying, deal with pain in an appropriate way. The Lord is trying to help us deal with offense in an appropriate way. Half of the sins we struggle with makes sense to us because that's all we know. You know what I'm saying? So if you talk crazy to me and the Lord is like, vengeance is mine, I'm like, I. I'm not used to that. I'm used to vengeance being mine. So sanctification is me figuring out how to trust you enough to not get my own vengeance, to not get my own lick back. You know what I'm saying? So it's the sin in me that makes the sanctification difficult.

[Megan Ashley]

So she said, I'm just going to preach anyway.

[Jackie]

Oh, you want me to talk about myself?

[Megan Ashley]

No, no.

[Jackie]

Okay. I just did.

[Megan Ashley]

No, but because I feel like. I feel like. I feel like it is.

I think that we constantly have to remind ourselves that the lack of the feeling.

Right. Doesn't mean.

That we're not. That we're not being like. We don't need the feeling to do the thing.

[Jackie]

What feeling?

[Megan Ashley]

So it's like, I feel like being kind to you.

Right? Or I feel like even we were talking about with vengeance, right? Like you think that the absence of the feeling is the evidence of sanctification.

[Jackie]

Make it plain. Keep going.

[Megan Ashley]

But it is the obedience of what to do with the feeling is the evidence of sanctification.

[Jackie]

Okay. I was about to.

[Megan Ashley]

So the fact that I have decided side, like I know that vengeance is the Lord, even though I don't feel that. I feel like I want to give you some vengeance for sure. Huh?

[Jackie]

100%.

[Megan Ashley]

Huh? Yeah, I've been. Huh?

[Jackie]

Yes.

[Megan Ashley]

But I. But I know like the. The fact that I know that vengeance is the Lord, I just decide. Even though I don't feel, I decide to put that feeling to death.

[Jackie]

Why do you think that we have a tendency to believe that our feelings should dictate our decisions?

You like that mama bit?

[Megan Ashley]

Y' all shout out to my mom, my mommy is here. She came all the way from Ohio. She didn't been with my kids all day. She wasn't even trying to do all that. And here she is with her blonde hair and her clip on ponytail.

We love. I know, it's beautiful. You look beautiful. You are my mama and you look beautiful. Huh? She said, I ain't gonna hit them with the wig. My mom was on Patreon every week with a new wig. She got on that thing every week with a new one. It was blonde. The next it was highlights, low light. I said, mom, pick a wig. Pick a wig.

[Jackie]

Per book.

[Megan Ashley]

A wig, a book. Okay. Anyway, I didn't forgot the question. I love my mama so much.

[Jackie]

Why? Why do you think that we believe that our feelings should dictate our decisions?

[Megan Ashley]

Because that's what they've been doing thus far.

Do you know what I'm saying? Our feelings have been doing that thus far. And so I think that we believe that. And I also believe that there is a false theology out there saying that to be out of sin is absent of the feelings. Do you know what I'm saying? I think that that was preached to us. I think that that was communicated to us. And that is a false teaching. So you mix false teaching with behavior that we always have had. I think that, that, you know what I'm saying, that motivates how we, how we move. And so. Yeah, I guess I'll toss it back to you. Maybe you could articulate it better than me. I just. Yeah, that's.

[Jackie]

Well, I think we could get real technical, but I think we can be. How do I say this?

Sometimes what we are feeling are actually what the Bible calls passions.

And so in Ephesians it says that there are. Or. Or it might be. Peter is one of them. Wage war against the passions within you. Right? Passions are feelings and desires that come from flesh. Lust is in fact, a feeling, but it's a feeling produced by flesh. Wrath is in fact a feeling, but it's a feeling that's produced by flesh. Dare I say irritation.

Is a. Because irritation is just a very mild form of anger. So it's like, yikes, I struggle with it every day. I promise you, I am not on a high horse here. My kids asked me two questions after I repeated myself. Well, what I just like, it's just.

But their feelings that arise from the flesh. And when you look at Genesis 3, you know what was started this whole thing was somebody obeying their feelings. This whole thing started that way where her looking at the tree and saying that it looks good for food and it's desired to make one wise. And so her feelings dictated her decision when her faith should have dictated her decisions sometimes.

[Megan Ashley]

Say that again.

[Jackie]

I don't know what I said.

[Megan Ashley]

Her feelings. Her feelings dictated her decisions, but her faith should have. Should have dictated because.

[Jackie]

Because real Christian maturity is you have to get to a point where you believe that. He said what he said, even if you don't feel like doing.

You can't go as a Christian if. Even if you're married. It's so many things I don't feel like doing, but I'm in a covenant, and so I have to choose and decide to do the thing that is actually right and good. And so when it came to Adam and Eve, I think it's important to dissect this. It's like she looks at this tree and she has this strong desire for this created thing. But God said, the day you eat of it, you shall not surely die. So it meant she would have had to reflect. Do I trust God enough to know that even if I feel like this tree will make me wise, it actually won't. Even if I feel like this tree is good for food, he's actually better. Even if I feel like the devil, what he's saying to me sounds practical. God's law oftentimes feels impractical. You want me to do stuff that is actually beyond me. And that's where sanctification happens.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

[Jackie]

Because now I got to lean. I got to depend on you, where I can be like Christ. And so I just think if you start to parse out what feelings are actually from flesh, so I have to put that feeling to death and do what's right, regardless of what the feeling is tempting me to believe.

[Megan Ashley]

Amen. Huh?

[Jackie]

I think now we would tap into the real holiness if we got that in our system.

[Megan Ashley]

And I. And I think we have to look at.

Village knows. I'm always telling them to interrogate their heart. Interrogate even your thoughts. Interrogate it. My mom used to tell me all the time, megan, think about what you're thinking about. Right? Interrogate that. Because I think we need to start asking ourselves.

Who does this bring glory to?

Right? So whatever feeling that I have.

[Jackie]

What.

[Megan Ashley]

Who gets the glory in that? Do I get the glory in it or does the Lord get the glory in it? Do you understand what I'm saying? So regardless of how you feel, it's about him getting the glory. Yes, ma'. Am.

I hate when she raises her hand. It's so.

[Jackie]

It's like because you're a teacher, that's what people do.

Some of the conversations that we have had about sanctification is about the weariness of sanctification can be when you do simply sometimes just want the feelings to go away.

Because it feels like, lord, I've been fighting this. Why won't you lift it?

And I know on one end, because I've preached this, particularly when it comes to, you know, talking about homosexuality and stuff like that. It can feel like, lord, I know if you lifted it, obedience would be easier.

But then he just leaves you there. And it doesn't mean he doesn't give you power to endure. He does, but sometimes you just get tired of enduring. And so I guess, like, how. How have you wrestled with that dynamic of just wanting certain wrestles to go away and even just for a season, for sure. For a season. Just give me six months off.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, please.

This year has been very interesting, I think. What was your question?

[Jackie]

Just weariness with sanctification as it relates to wanting God to take away a certain feeling desire. Wrestle.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, I don't know if I have, like, an answer to that. I think that because I'm still currently.

Enduring, you know what I'm saying? Like, I. It's hard.

And I think what makes it hard is knowing that God, you can.

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And that's frustrating. It can be frustrating. But I think that we also have to. To be honest about that and, and, and partner that also with remembering who God is. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, he's not allowing it for you to just suffer. Like it's not for your destruction. Do you know what I'm saying? So I think it's also remembering who God is. He's not a punisher for those who are with you, know what I'm saying? Like, he's not trying.

[Jackie]

Let me say that again, because some of us have a conception of God even in Christ, that he still has some justice that he needs to get out on us. And so when stuff gets hard, you feel like God is like doing something. Like he. He's still looking at you like, nah, I still feel away about you. So let me send you a bit of affliction.

[Megan Ashley]

And. And that's us projecting what we would do onto him.

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He poured out his wrath on his son.

So when he sees you, he sees his son now when you're in Christ, he looks at you and he sees his son and he's saying, I'm going to allow whatever means, by whatever means to keep making you look more like my son. So if it causes you to suffer now so that you look more like my son, then so be it.

I think we have to remember what the purpose is.

Your purpose isn't to feel.

You know what I'm saying? It's like that. That wasn't what you were created for. You were created to glorify him. And so he does, because he is a good father. He does what he needs to do and allows what he needs to allow to conform you into the image, more into the image of his son.

So he looks at you and he sees some of that. He sees that sin. He's like, no, no, no, I ain't looking at you like a way. I'm not looking at you like. But it's like, no, I'm allowing you to be sanctified.

[Jackie]

When we were at church Sunday, I was processing something. And I don't say God said it. I'm slow to say those things, unlike TikTok, but I was processing that some, I think, was influenced by the spirit. And I told you about it, which was some circumstances and some afflictions are not necessarily God's fault. It's ours in the sense of.

Help us. The example I used is like, let's say you was in a room and it was a bunch of stuff around and you kept knocking the stuff off the table and it was just irritating you. Like, why does stuff keep falling? And people like, oh, my God, that's like really messy. But it's be. The stuff is falling off the table and the things are messy because you're clumsy, right? You're clumsy. So when you fix your clumsiness, things will actually get easier. And so I think there's a sense where there are some afflictions that are happening because we have to change for the thing to change. Does this understand what I'm saying? We have to change. And once we change, the circumstances do. And so I just. I think sometimes we blame God and think that some afflictions are all like, God just want me to look like Christ. And it's like he does, but it's like you're fighting against him so much that it's actually elongating the season you're in. And so maybe if we repented, maybe if we fasted, maybe if we obeyed, then the marriage wouldn't be so hard. The job wouldn't be so difficult. Maybe if we stewarded our finances. That's a character thing. Maybe our finances will be a bit better. Oh, God, just want me to be a pauper. No, you don't pay your taxes.

You're putting all your money on a credit card. Like, I mean, you understand what I'm saying?

[Megan Ashley]

There are practical things. And I think something I feel like.

[Jackie]

I didn't make sense, that made sense.

[Megan Ashley]

No, it made sense. I think, too.

That we also have to have the humility to ask God to show us why does this stuff keep getting knocked over?

Do you know what I'm saying? Instead of saying just accepting the fact that it keeps getting knocked over. Why is it getting knocked over instead of just accepting the fact that all your relationships are hard. Lord, why are my relationships hard? And is there something in me that needs to be fixed in me? Right? Is there a discipline in me that I need to have so that the relationships aren't as hard? Some of us would have a lot more freedom if we were more humble to ask God to reveal to us what's in the way.

But some. But some of us don't want to ask because you don't want to do. And you rather blame God when it's actually something that you could be doing. But you rather just be like, well, God just want me to be, you know, Job. You not Joe, bro.

[Jackie]

They don't want to be.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I'm saying? You ain't job. What's up, you guys? Listen, go right now to themeganashley.shop. we have brand new merch. It's finally here. Listen, they've been selling out. I don't want you to miss the opportunity to get the new collection. This collection is our Romans 12 collection. It's about being completely and wholly devoted to the Lord. I pray that you get these pieces and it opens up opportunities and for you to share your faith with someone who thinks, you know, your item is dope or whatever you get. We got hats. We got sweatsuits. We have nylon, zip ups and shorts. Listen, guys, this collection is literally my favorite. We put so much work, me and the team into this collection. We love it and we pray that you love it, too. Listen, go now. Www.themaganashley shop. I don't want you to miss your opportunity. Opportunity to get this exclusive collection. Once it's gone, it's gone. It's not coming back. All right, guys, Love you. Back to the conversation.

And so, so even tonight, when you go home tonight, ask the Lord if There's an area in your life that keeps being hard. If there is an area in your life where there is constant turmoil.

If there is an area in your life where there's constant friction.

Constant, persistent sin. Sin, sin, sin. Not mistakes, not just. So this is my humanity.

Sin.

Lord, is there any hidden sin in my heart?

And then God give me the power to put it to death. Ask him. I think that that would eliminate a lot of stuff, too.

[Jackie]

I think something you're saying is we sometimes can take a passive approach to our sanctification. That's good. Which is God is going to finish the work, so I don't have to work.

I'm saved by grace through faith, lest any man should boast. Dah, dah, dah, dah. And it's like no. Philippians 2 says, Work out your own salvation, not work for.

Work out. You've been saved and now you are appropriating what God already started. Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God who works in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure. And so, yes, the Lord has regenerated you. Yes, the Lord is sanctifying you. Yes, the Lord is conforming you into his image, but he has also called you to work alongside him.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Jackie]

Right. And so that's why we read our Scriptures. Not to work for salvation, but to work out our salvation. That's why we fast not to work for our salvation, but to work out our salvation. That's why we obey not to obey. So Daddy can make look at me and be happy with me. No, he's already happy with you because you're in Christ. Christ. You're just working out Christ's image in you through your obedience. And so I think sometimes those people who are knocking over. And I'm talking about me, those people who are knocking over all the things. There might be a part of your sanctification that you're just really lazy at. And that's what's happening. And so the Lord is calling you up to say no. Like, you actually have more power within you than you're willing to believe. And maybe the discouragement, maybe the failure, maybe the shame is keeping you from, like, doing all that you need to do to just be better. Like, I've given you those resources. Like the Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead lives in you. I mean, how much more do you need?

[Megan Ashley]

Huh?

[Jackie]

And I'm talking to myself.

[Megan Ashley]

Huh? You talking to me?

[Jackie]

Yeah, we talking to each other.

[Megan Ashley]

We support each other.

[Jackie]

Yeah, Discouragement is real.

[Megan Ashley]

I want to know what your thoughts are on sanctification being.

And how that affects relationships, because.

[Jackie]

It affects everything. It's like. It's. It's like. So go ahead. No, go ahead. No, go.

[Megan Ashley]

That was the question.

[Jackie]

You probably have a question that's different than what I'm assuming you're gonna say.

[Megan Ashley]

No, you probably.

[Jackie]

So you just tired, You. No. Okay.

Well, in Genesis, we see that when Adam and Eve sinned, it affected them horizontally and vertically. And so there was distance between them and God, and then there was distance between each other. And so naturally, sin affects relationships, and therefore, the process of sanctification should help relationships. Not all, because some people are crazy and demonically possessed, but.

There should be.

[Megan Ashley]

Took a hard left.

[Jackie]

Go ahead. You understand?

[Megan Ashley]

That's true, though.

[Jackie]

So I think.

How do I say this?

For me, I think the Lord has used and is using relationships to constantly show me the level of maturity I actually have.

Because I. Yikes. I think in the church, you can think the amount of Bible, you know, is the measure of your maturity, or the amount of gifts you have is the measure of your maturity, or even the effectiveness of your ministry is the measure of your maturity. But it's like, no. How easily offended am I? That's the measure. You know what I'm saying? How quick to forgive am I? That's the measure. Because the. The law and the prophets hinge on loving the God, Lord, your God, with all your heart, mind, and soul, and loving your neighbor as yourself. And so if. If I think identifying how do I love people, that actually shows you how you love God. Does it make sense? And so that's been the thing for me is like, the Lord is like, yeah, you. You could. You could preach real good, but you have an attitude problem. You can exegete that passage real great, but you're bitter. You know what I'm saying? You are very insightful on these podcasts, but the way you talk to your husband this week is problematic. And so it's like the way I actually reveal, like, that's how I see my heart is paying attention to how I treat other people.

And it's hard.

[Megan Ashley]

That was good to me. And I think. I think what. What you're saying is, is that, like, when you talked about, like, I can execute this text.

I can serve well. I'm talking about me. I serve well.

It's a gift.

But we know that gifts come without repentance. So the. So your effectiveness in your gift isn't evidence.

Like you said, of your maturity. And I think, like you said, there's so many people, even for, not even just for yourself, but even how you look on other people.

You look at their.

Their following and their numbers and their ministry and their this and they're that. And of course they're a Christian.

We measure it by gifts and not character.

[Jackie]

You said you serve well. And I, I, I think, how do I say this? I feel like it's easy to be deceived about your own heart and where you are in sanctification. Yeah. When you have personalities and giftings that look like the spirit.

[Megan Ashley]

Yikey.

[Jackie]

You know what I'm saying?

[Megan Ashley]

Yikey.

[Jackie]

So as a, as a person who is hospitable, who is servant hearted, how have you worked through the Lord even showing you, like how Tim Keller, we often keep saying this, how Tim Keller said, like real Christians don't just repent of bad stuff, they repent for the reasons why they did good things. How have you worked through?

[Megan Ashley]

I have lived. I have lived that because I can be nice and not kind.

I can be, I can be giving and not selfless.

Because again, because the Lord has graced me.

Particularly to be hospitable. He has gifted me particularly to be hospitable. Because the gift requires comes without repentance. That means that I can do the gift apart from the spirit.

So I can do this independent of the Spirit. Even though it was God who gave me the gift. I can do this thing because it comes without repentance. I can do this thing apart from the spirit. Right. Every good and perfect gift comes from above, from the Father. Right? So you can have a gift to sing. Doesn't mean you're a Christian because God is the one who gave you that gift. Right? So I can have a hospitable gift and be hospitable apart from the Spirit.

And so anything that I do independent of the spirit is coming from a wrong motive. It's coming from a selfish place.

And because your heart is deceitful and will lie to you, you will think a good thing is good.

But is the good thing holy?

Is the good that I'm doing holy? Or is it just good?

Is God looking for good people or is he looking for holy people? Because the, because Christ said, many will say, lord, Lord, didn't we speak in your name? Didn't we cast demons out? Didn't we do all these things? Those are good things. And he responds and says, depart from me, you worker of iniquity, I never knew you. And they did good things.

So don't confuse your good stuff with God's. Stuff.

Anything. I know for me. And again, we talked about this. I'm really good at serving. And I did it for a long time and I did it with selfishness. It was about how it brought glory to me, about how it fulfilled a void in me, not about this good that I do for the glory of God. I'm serving you because serving you brings him glory. I'm kind to you even when you're not kind to me because it brings him glory. I turn the other cheek and I keep turning the other cheek and I forgive seven times seven. And I keep forgiving because it brings him glory.

Do you understand what I'm saying? Like.

We, we have to be, we have to have a heart posture that is after glory.

And anytime that that is, that is because the Bible says where there is selfish ambition, there is every vile practice.

We have to be vigilant at killing the selfish ambitiousness in us, even when we think those selfish ambitions are good things.

Right?

Well, I'm going to post a scripture. I'm going to post me doing my devotional. Did you post that for you.

Or did you do that for the Lord? Did you do it to lift him up so that he would draw people to himself, or did you do it so that you would look away?

What. What's the real motive? And this is why you have to guard your heart with all vigilance. Like, you gotta interrogate this thing because you will think that good things are God's things and they're not. We have to be vigilant at that. Does that make sense?

[Jackie]

Yes, Preacher.

I think. I think it's helpful to say.

That it's those kinds of conversations with yourself that will increase your godliness because it will increase your dependence when you realize, when you start to reckon with. Oh, like, because so, so many of us, we're not actually out doing the ratchet stuff. We. We put that to death a long time ago, but the Lord is calling us deeper. And so when you start to get into motive, you realize, like, oh, it ain't just about not getting drunk. It's also about how I love my neighbor internally. When you start getting into motive, then you understand why Paul can say pray without ceasing. Because you realize I actually don't have a choice anymore. You get what I'm saying? So one thing Jesus says In John chapter 15, I think this is good for us to get in our spirit, which is, where is it at?

John Chapter 15, number seven.

That ain't what I want. Help me, lord. Oh, number four, chapter four, verse four. Tired. Abide in me. 15, chapter 15. Everybody say amen when you got it.

[Megan Ashley]

That was like three.

[Jackie]

That Bible was used. That's fine. I'll just read over. No, I love it.

[Megan Ashley]

You.

[Jackie]

You be in your word, girl. Abide in me and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself unless it abides in the vine, neither can you unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit. For apart from me, you can do no thing.

[Megan Ashley]

Not a thing.

[Jackie]

That's the encouragement is that the Lord is not pressing you into just doing a bunch of works. He's pressing you into his, son.

It's the abiding. And practically, what does it look like to abide? Okay, I get up in the morning and I read my Scriptures and I pray and say, lord, help me read my scriptures and understand it. Help me love what you communicate. Help me apply what you communicate. That's abiding. Because now I'm desperate for him to help me to love this thing for real. For real. Then as you read, it's like, okay, Lord, open up my understanding and help me apply this thing. Now you're desperate for him to apply it. Then when you go out into the world, you see somebody and it's just like, oh, I don't like them. Lord, please help me. Help me love them. Even if I don't like them, I'm abiding. You get what I'm saying? And so it's this constant conversation and dependence on the Spirit to do what only the Spirit can produce, and it's that that will cause us to bear much fruit. And so I think the interrogation of your heart is not to discourage you or to elicit shame. The interrogation of your heart is so you can be more desperate and more aware. So you have things to give God so you can be like Christ. Does that make sense? Okay.

What you just feed, you know, Because I got. I got to work these things out for myself.

[Megan Ashley]

And you do.

[Jackie]

Like, everything I'll be saying is like, no, I. I have to work this out for me because I have so many parts of me that are just not like Christ.

[Megan Ashley]

What?

[Jackie]

Hello? You know about him.

[Megan Ashley]

What? Do. What? Because I'm. I'm. I want to talk about an interesting that happened thing that happened a couple weeks ago. And I want to share with you guys. Just in all vulnerability, like, I was just not in a. I was just in a really bad spot just a couple Weeks ago.

And still, you know, crawling my way out of some great discouragement. But this was like. This was different. Like, it felt different. And I think even for the people that were close to me experienced it differently than they had for a long time. And this discouragement, I feel like, was a great.

In patience with the pace at which God was sanctifying me. And it discouraged me so badly that in all transparency, I thought I was going to have like a relapse. Like I was deep, like despair, like depressed.

Deeply. And.

What the interesting thing about it was, you know, and I was, you know, just. There was relational stuff, tension, you know, me and Jordan going with each other and she's just like, what's wrong? And I'm just. I don't know. I don't know. I'm just discouraged. That's all I could tell Jackie, Jordan, they were. They knew I was just discouraged. I called my mom. I'm just discouraged. I can't get out of this.

And I was in my bed. It was a Monday. We had just got back from a trip Sunday, and.

I was just in my bed, like, could not get out of bed.

[Jackie]

And this, I think people don't. Because they see you smile with the lip liner so much that they don't have. They don't have an image of what despair does to you because you can hear discouragement and think, oh, yeah, we all be discouraged. But it's like, it's a.

Pit.

It'S a darkness, it's like Pilgrim's Progress. It's like a hopelessness where there is no light, no joy, no nothing. And so when you're in that place, it's actually not good. Right. I just felt like I needed to.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And you guys know my testimony. Like, I dealt with suicide for many, many years. My episode with my mom, we talked about what that did to her, what that did to, like, I struggled with not wanting to live for a long time. Self harm, all the things. I struggled badly. And when I gave the Lord a serious yes on the porch in 2023, I really do feel like the Lord had lifted a lot of that. Truly believe that.

And what made this particular. Because it's not like I haven't been discouraged before. I'm discouraged. That's. I feel like part of the walk, you gonna get discouraged. Right. But this time of being discouraged, I started to get scared because I started to have thoughts that I used to have before. And it scared me because I hadn't had those thoughts in almost two years and they were coming up.

Like Strong.

And that's scary.

Especially when you believe that the Lord took that away.

And it comes up again, and then you start to question, am I really saved? You know, do you really have, like. Was that, like, you know, there's a lot of fear that comes with that. And so anyway.

I just want to talk to y' all about what happened because. And this is part of sanctification and the miracle of sanctification and how God does it in the means in which. By. He does it by. And anyway, I was in my bed and I was really struggling, and Jackie had texted me and was. I don't remember what you said, but you had texted me and checking on me. And I was like.

[Jackie]

I said, I feel like you're discouraged and you're not telling me why.

[Megan Ashley]

And I had responded to her. Yeah, something like that.

[Jackie]

You just gotta say what it is. I've gotten to that point.

[Megan Ashley]

Something's going on now, you know, when you. Like when you real close. I know. And even Ashley, she was like, what's going on with you? You know, my sweet friend, what's going on with you? And, you know, like, when you're close to people, they can just feel it, you know, they know. And so.

Even this. Even this is like, Lord, this is you sanctifying me. Because I was honest with her.

I did what I would have normally done is, I'm good, I'm all right, I'm good. I'm just, you know, blah, blah. I'm straight. I was honest with her, and I was honest with her because I trust her. So let me say that I trust her to be honest with her. And so, yes, for sure, you need people that you could trust. But I was honest with her, and.

I said, I feel I'm doing all that I can do, right, to not have a relapse. I was like, I don't want to relapse. I feel like I'm really discouraged, and I feel like I'm going to have a relapse. And Jackie responded and said.

She said something. She said, I'm gonna get in my car and I'm gonna come over there.

[Jackie]

I said, I know you don't want me to come over there.

Which is risky, because if you got rejection issues, your pride can keep you from serving your friend.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

And so I'm like, yeah, I know you don't want me to. And I waited to text you that. Like, when I'm finna get in the car. Cause I'm like, let me just. I'm not even gonna tell her While I'm getting dressed, I'm gonna tell her when I. Cause I didn't even respond to you for 30 minutes. I'm like, she probably think I don't care. It's like, no, I'm getting dressed.

[Megan Ashley]

So she texts me and says.

I'll be over there in two hours.

And Jackie has the codes in my house, so she can just come in. So she knew she could just come in. And she said, I just want to sit with you.

Oh, man. She said, I just want to sit with you.

And I want to pray with you, and I want to read scripture over you.

And I text her back, and I said, don't come over here.

I don't want you to come over here, because I don't want to be okay.

And so I said, don't come over here. Just. I don't have it in me to be. I'm doing all that I can to be okay. And I don't want you to come, you know, Because I knew if she came, I would have to. I would have to face it, you know, whatever. I would have something. I don't know what would happen. I just didn't want it to happen. And so I said, don't come over here. I didn't hear back from her. She didn't respond. And I'm sitting in my bed, and I am just weeping. I am crying.

So discouraged. And she just showed up.

There was a knock on my door.

[Jackie]

She walked in, and I had the code to the door, but I just felt like that would be respectful. It was like, I'll just walk through the front of the house, but I'll give her a little warning tap, you.

[Megan Ashley]

Know, she walked in, she pulled the chair up next to my bed. When she gave me a hug, she pulled the chair next to my bed, and she opened up. She opened up her Bible, and she just read Scripture.

She just read scripture over me.

And I am in my phone just.

[Jackie]

She looking at reals. Because it sound real. It sound real spiritual, but she is just scrolling.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, man. I think I was playing block blast or something, like, trying to distract myself. Cause I'm just like. I don't want.

[Jackie]

Like I'm saying, ooh, my rejection is flaring. But it.

But you also. But I also felt the Lord on the way there guide me to let her do that.

To not force her out of her own space to accommodate my insecurities.

But to simply. Just to be is to, in fact, be. And so scroll, do whatever you want, because I know the word will work. And so I just felt like we had to say that. I'm not like the Lord told me to do, that. I ain't thinking that. Go ahead.

[Megan Ashley]

And.

It, in fact, worked. And it. And it wasn't as if, you know, it was just like, I'm better. She sat in my bed. She eventually moved to the bed. She was like, all right now, girl. My back hurt. And so she got out of the chair and moved in my bed. And we sat in that bed for hours. Didn't say a word. She didn't say a word.

She said, you can take a nap. Do you want to eat?

She was answering emails. Mind you, this is the day before I have to record four podcast episodes.

Four podcasts. I had a whole week of recording, and I'm in my bed crying, discouraged. And she sat with me and she prayed and she read Scripture.

And not that everything changed immediately, but I had a little bit more strength.

To continue to be faithful.

And let me tell you, what I didn't know at the time is that she was discouraged.

But, like, she was going through her own discouragement, and it was discouragement because just a week later, now she's crying, right? A week after that, now she's crying, and we're. You know. But she was discouraged.

But what I'm thinking about is how the encouragement is, is that although we were both frustrated with the pace at which God was sanctifying us, he was using the discouragement at the pace at which he was sanctifying us. To sanctify us. Yeah.

[Jackie]

God, all things do work together for the good of those.

Purpose.

[Megan Ashley]

Because part of the discouragement that you later shared.

[Jackie]

Go ahead.

[Megan Ashley]

The part of the discouragement that you had shared was the discouragement of, like. Why?

[Jackie]

Like, I had the same discouragement, same.

[Megan Ashley]

Discouragement, but the fact that you were willing to not be selfish. She could have stayed home. She lives an hour and 200 hours away from me. She lives so far away from me. I mean, it's literally an hour and a half. And she was discouraged. She could have stayed home. Selfishness would have stayed home. But instead, she decided.

She decided. She decided. Not that she felt like it. She decided to love God and love me and put that before what she felt.

And in that, I was able to get through a week of podcasting and then have. Because Paul talks about when we are discouraged, right? When we are discouraged, we are comforted by God, and we use that comfort to comfort other people. That's Scripture. And so then when she was discouraged, I used the strength that I received the comfort that I received by ways of her through the Holy Spirit to then comfort her.

Isn't God good?

That is a. Do you real. Like, that is a miracle to me that he would use that and even show us that. Like, although you are frustrated with your. The pace at which I'm sanctifying you, I will even use that to sanctify you. That's how much I love you.

[Jackie]

I think it just speaks to.

It's not good for man to be alone.

And it is hard to love people. It's hard to serve people. It's hard to be vulnerable with people, especially when you've been used, when you've been betrayed, when you've been treated a certain kind of way. Like, it's scary to trust people, but it's like we won't be holy without people. As much as we think that our prayer closets are sufficient, at some point we gotta get out of that thing and be with people. And so I just think that's what that story communicates. It's just. We just need people for us to be like Christ, you know? And I think you need to know your people and have a sense of what the Lord is up to and what Satan is up to. Because I know that Megan is not special, but she's different. And so because of that, to me, there's an urgency to make sure that Satan can't win. There's a. There's a weightiness to your call and to your life that compels me to contend for you. You understand what I'm saying? Because to me, it's like.

I'm trying to phrase it in a way that don't make you feel proud.

[Megan Ashley]

Please don't. Because I got to put that to death every day.

[Jackie]

You are valuable to the kingdom of God. You're valuable. And so I just. I just. I. I can't. I was gonna call him out his name. I just can't let that man. I just can't let that man one up you. You know, I just can't. I. It's offensive to me. It's literally offensive.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Jackie]

So.

[Megan Ashley]

And. And I think it's beautiful that I got. And. And I'm thankful that the lord kept putting 1st Thessalonians 5 on me, because that's what that was.

Comfort the discouraged, help the weak.

You were living out your identity even when you were discouraged. But because you know who you are, you did what you were supposed to do.

And, And I, And I. I encourage all of us to be. To be trustworthy friends like that.

Not Just when the opportunity presents itself, but before the opportunity presents itself.

We are constantly living ahead of it. Right when my mom used to say, get ahead of it, we're constantly living to be ahead of it. And so in order to be a faithful friend, I gotta be faithful to God.

She would have never been able to do that had she not have an actual intimacy with the Lord. Do you know what I'm saying? Because there's friends that you could have called that. They'd be like, girl, I know, Shoot, me too.

You know what I'm saying? And that's cool. But you need friends.

That know how to hear from the Lord. She didn't want to do that. The Lord told. That didn't come to her mind. Out of her own self, she was. She made herself available to the Lord. The Lord told her, go over there and read scripture to her. She didn't go over there to kick it. There wasn't half obedience. She went over there and she didn't utter a word that the Lord didn't tell her to. We did not talk. And we talk. I mean, kikiin talking all day, every day. She did not utter a word that God didn't tell her to say. That takes obedience. That takes selflessness. That takes a fear of the Lord. She feared him. And so let's be people like that. Let's live like that. Not to just be good friends, but to be faithful followers of the Lord. Let's live like that. And I pray that. Like that. You see? Like, our friendship is beautiful. It is a miracle. I was just. It is, man. My mom. Yes, it is. It's a miracle. I've. I've. I've been. I'm not. Y' all would think that out of the two of us, I would be more of the softie. I'm not. I'm not that much of a word of affirmations person. I'm not.

What?

I'm not. You say I am. Okay. They said we were equal, but I feel like.

[Jackie]

Jackie, I was like, five seconds for being triggered.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm like, girl, no, I'm saying you. You give. You're. You're more like. I'm not saying soft, but I'm saying, like, you're more expressive with, like, words of affirmation.

[Jackie]

This is your hundredth episode. I am not going to rain on your parade. Go ahead.

[Megan Ashley]

Anyway. But I just have been, like. I just have been reflecting more recently and been more. Well, I'll just say, for me, I've been more expressive than I normally am about my Gratitude and. Yeah, just for our friendship sanctification. Yeah. And like, yeah, just like, I don't want y' all to see our friendship and think that it's just for the sake of friendship's sake. Like, our friendship also has Kingdom implications. And so when you have friendships that have kingdom implications, you fight differently, you love differently, when it has kingdom implications. And so we need to start seeing our relationships with fellow believers as like, this isn't just for me and you, but there's a Kingdom implication involved in this relationship. So I fight differently, I love differently, I honor differently, I serve differently. Because it has Kingdom implications. Our relationships should be a reflection of the Lord, and it should draw people to Him. If it's not drawing people to the Lord, what we doing? Truly, Truly, what are we doing?

Truly, what are we doing? If it's not to glorify him and to lift him up and to draw people closer to him, our relationships should. We should move like they have kingdom implications.

And so I pray that y' all see this and y'. All and. And you see a reflection of that and to move in that way.

[Jackie]

You good, girl.

[Megan Ashley]

What?

[Jackie]

That's beautiful.

[Megan Ashley]

As we. Because we're gonna. We're gonna move into just a time of prayer really quick before. Because y' all know who's going to access tomorrow. Are y' all guys excited.

Before we leave this beautiful day? Did y' all have a good time?

I pray that you have fun. It was a long day, but we, you know, I wanted. You're like, megan, next time do a retreat, okay? It's like, I didn't work the whole shift.

I know, I know, I know. We're gonna do a retreat. I promise. Well, we'll. We'll do like a three day thing. But.

But before we. Before we go, I don't want to leave you guys without the right heart posture to go into tomorrow, okay? We had a great day today. We had fun. We had fellowship. And I believe that that is all pleasing to the Lord. But I don't want us to leave here without preparing our hearts for tomorrow. And so as Jackie and I were just talking backstage or backstage back there, we were talking just about our hearts for you guys. And we want to give everyone an opportunity to go before the Lord before we go into that arena and pray. We want to give all of us an opportunity to repent if there's. If there needs to be some repentance, to confess, to lay down some stuff, to pick up the cross, right? We want to offer that opportunity. So Jackie is Going to pray.

[Jackie]

I just want to say something real quick, which is, I don't know how many of you have been following Megan's journey since before in totality, but if you have, I'm pretty sure you see a distinct difference.

She has the same convictions, the same boldness, the same articulation, but it's anchored in truth now. And I think I'm just grateful to be your friend. You help me endure, and I don't want to cry. So I'm going to move on from that point. But I bring that up because when we were backstage talking through our talk, talking through sanctification, I got this sense that there would be people in the room that would not resonate with what we're saying because they're not actually being sanctified. And if you're not being sanctified, that's a clue that you haven't been justified, which is to say, if you are not growing in Christ likeness, then you don't know Christ.

The Bible tells us to.

See if we're actually believers, to question if we really know Him. In Atlanta and even in our black communities, we are all like Uzzah, where we have. We are used to the ark of God. We are used to the law. We are used to the priests and the prophets. And because we become so used to it, we actually no longer have reverence for what is sacred. And so I just want to remind us of the Gospel, which is that in the beginning, God made every single one of you. Made the heavens, made the earth, made the stars, all the stuff may Adam and Eve and gave them one law. Hey, y' all can do whatever you want, except the day you eat of this tree, you shall surely die. They decided against faith. They decided against obedience. They decided against trusting God to be God. And because of that, sin entered into the human condition. And we are all therefore born in sin and shaped in iniquity. It does not matter how much scripture you know. It does not matter how long you've been going to church. It don't even matter if you speak in tongues. The Bible says that if you were born, you were born in sin. And the crazy part is we love it.

We enjoy it, we delight in it. We take pleasure in the thing that dishonors, the one that helps us breathe. And so something has to happen. If we love the thing that stores up wrath, something has to happen. And it can't be something that you can produce. It has to be that God has to change you, that God has to save you, that God has to do the work of reconciling you back to himself. Because we talk a lot about what God can do for us, but the simple point of the gospel is that there is wrath and there is guilt and Jesus dies so that guilt can be removed.

All you have to do is repent. Repent is to decide against what you've been on. To decide against lesbianism, to decide against homosexuality, to decide against drunkenness, to decide against self righteousness, to decide against legalism, to decide against pornography. Whatever your vices are. Even the Bible says whatever is not done from faith is sin. Even if you do good stuff, if it's not rooted in faith, you're sinning.

But to repent is to turn from that and to turn to Christ and say, you know, you are good, you are better, you are Lord, you are Savior. And I'm just going to decide today to follow you. And following you means I'm going to take up that cross that you carried and I'm going to die daily. And even when I don't die well, I'm going to keep dying. Even when I suffer for following you, I'm a keep going. Even when it cost me friends and it cost me my mind temporarily, I'm going to keep following you.

So it ain't all that deep. We don't even got to do no altar call. It's like, are you just willing to make the decision to follow? And if you don't know what it means to follow, open up the book. That might be a sign that you're not following because you're not reading the book. Open up the book and say, lord, show me what it means to be a disciple. And if you pray that thing by faith, I'm pretty sure that's according to the will of God. It's for us to follow Christ. And so I just want to pray for us before we go into worship that the Lord would make us authentic and sincere disciples. Lord, we thank you.

We thank you that though we were born in sin and shaped in iniquity.

That while we were yet sinners.

Christ died for us.

We thank you that.

You loved us first. We thank you that you revealed your son to us. We thank you that you have not left us alone as orphans, but you sent your Holy Spirit to help us to do the thing that we cannot do in our own strength. I pray for everyone here who does not know you authentically. They look to what they do for you as proof of who they are in you. Instead of resting and trusting in what Christ accomplished on the cross, I pray that you would regenerate false converts. I pray that you would reveal darkened hearts. I pray that you would open up closed ears. I pray that the miracle we would seek is not a prophet's word, but that we would abide in your word. I pray that you would produce in us something that we cannot produce on our own strength. I pray for that mercy. I pray for that grace. I pray that someone would hear you now. I pray that the same God who said, let there be light would shine in our hearts to give the light that is in the face of Jesus Christ. I pray that you would have mercy on us. We are in a city that wants to convince everyone that they love you while they hate you. I pray that we would love you. I pray that we would love you. I pray that we would seek you. I pray that we would serve you. I pray that we would listen to you. I pray that we would respond to. I pray that we would obey you. I pray God, that you would raise up men and women that obey you. I pray for a spirit of obedience. That you would give us the power and the strength of to deny ourselves.

I pray for those who are weary and well doing.

Strengthen your people.

Help your people endure. I don't know the cross that they are carrying. I don't know the afflictions that they have. But I do know that we are able now to share in your sufferings because.

You want us to be like you. Not just in the good things, but also in the pain. You are a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. And so I pray that we would be content with crying with you. I pray that we would be okay with suffering with you. And that we would know that in if we suffer with you, we will reign with you. That's not a lie, Lord. And so help us to believe the truth.

I pray that you would uproot every church that is keeping us from loving you for real. And I pray that you would plant more churches to help us love you for real. I pray for people in this room who you have called to pastor. I pray against the spirit of fear. I pray God, that they would know that you have given them power and a sound mind.

Help us to be disciples that make disciples.

I pray for Megan. I pray for her heart. I pray for her mind. I pray for her family. I pray for her circumstances. I pray for her home. I pray that every single scheme of the evil one that you allow. I pray that you would grant her the faith to extinguish every flaming dart of the evil when I pray that he would be frustrated by her surrender. I pray that he would be irritated how she keeps going because that gives you glory. It means that you keep your people. It means that you keep your people. So I pray God, that you would keep her, that you would keep her in perfect peace, that you would keep her tethered to your word, that you would raise her up as a teacher and a preacher of your gospel. I pray that you would open up her understanding. I pray that you would open up her wisdom. I pray every single person that is around her as a leech and not as a friend. I pray that you would reveal them to her. I pray that you would keep her from people that don't mean her well. I pray for discernment. She's kind and she's open. But she needs your discernment. And so I pray that you would protect her.

Lord, thank you for your love. Thank you for your peace. Thank you for your son. Thank you for In Totality and how you are using it to make disciples who make disciples in Christ's name. Amen.

[Megan Ashley]

I love you guys. Thank you for being here. I hope you had a good time. Thank you for celebrating 100 episodes. This was awesome, man. This is awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, you. I love all you guys. Good night. What's up, you guys? I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you felt encouraged in some way. Be sure to like and follow In Totality Podcast everywhere you listen to your favorite shows. Follow In Totality on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and be sure to turn on your post notifications so that you can be the first to listen whenever there's a new episode.