EP 47: Being a Sanctuary (Ft. Pricelis Dominguez)

Summary

In Totality with Megan Ashley – Episode 47: "Being a Sanctuary" (Ft. Pricelis Dominguez)

Release Date: September 24, 2024
Host: Megan Ashley
Guest: Pricelis Dominguez (referred to as Pre)

---

1. Introduction

Megan Ashley welcomes listeners to episode 47 of "In Totality," introducing her guest, Pricelis Dominguez, affectionately called Pre. Megan expresses her excitement about Pre’s new book, Being a Sanctuary, highlighting its relevance to fostering authentic Christian communities.

---

2. Guest Background and Book Overview

Pre’s Journey and Authorship

Pre shares her personal journey within the faith, detailing her struggles and eventual return to Christianity after a period of doubt and disillusionment, particularly influenced by negative experiences within the church.

Pre at 01:13: “In the past 10 years, my time in the faith as I returned, it's been a lot. It's been a lot of pain. It's been a lot of a lotness. And when I kind of spent time in the pandemic reflecting on, I was like, I just don't think this is God's vision.”

Pre discusses her book, Being a Sanctuary, which addresses the need for the church to transform into a true sanctuary—compassionate, Bible-based, and inclusive—returning to God’s original vision for His church.

---

3. Healing Church Hurt and Establishing Sanctuaries

Addressing Pain and Providing Solutions

Both Megan and Pre delve into the impact of church hurt, sharing personal anecdotes about how betrayal and lack of compassion within church settings led to deep emotional wounds.

Megan at 06:28: “I grew up in church, and I've been hurt by the church, and I've had some really painful things. Some of the most painful things that I've experienced and that people have done to me have been people who have been in the church.”

Pre emphasizes that healing requires more than just acknowledgment; it necessitates actionable solutions to restore trust and foster genuine community.

Pre at 17:10: “We are not just going to complain about it. I'm going to want to provide solutions and hopeful, like, path forward.”

---

4. Diversity and Representation in the Church

Promoting Inclusivity and Avoiding Tokenism

The conversation shifts to the importance of diversity within church leadership and congregations. Pre critiques the tendency of churches to reactively add diverse members without genuine integration or representation.

Pre at 25:49: “We have a lot of people who are picking at and exposing and criticizing and critiquing, but not also fixing the problem.”

Pre advocates for proactive diversity, ensuring that leaders genuinely reflect and understand the multifaceted identities within their congregations.

Pre at 32:22: “The New Testament is so much about unity of different cultures of different groups that if we miss that, we're not reading it well.”

---

5. Handling Suffering and Trauma-Informed Care

Being Present and Offering Support

Pre highlights the necessity for the church to adopt trauma-informed approaches, moving beyond surface-level solutions like simple forgiveness to offering meaningful support for those suffering.

Pre at 17:04: “We have to see it as a everyone's problem kind of thing... All of this is too, we're being too passive about it.”

Megan shares her personal experience with mental health struggles, underscoring the importance of the church addressing such issues with empathy rather than judgment.

Megan at 38:11: “I have a question for you because I’m interested in what your thoughts are on diversity when it comes to your personal community.”

---

6. Navigating Election Season as Christians

Maintaining Unity Amidst Polarization

With the society deeply entrenched in political divides, Megan and Pre discuss strategies for Christians to remain unified and compassionate during election seasons. Pre offers practical advice on setting boundaries with content consumption and engaging in effective, godly dialogue.

Pre at 47:00: “We need to be prayerful... being mindful and setting boundaries on how much information we are consuming.”

They further explore the idea of shifting from being reactive to contributing positively to the church’s health, aligning with Christian principles rather than societal pressures.

---

7. Practical Advice and Conclusions

From Consumers to Contributors

Pre introduces the concept of moving from being mere consumers of the church’s pain to becoming active contributors in its healing and growth. She encourages readers to engage with her book, Being a Sanctuary, as a guide to fostering a more inclusive, compassionate, and Bible-centered church environment.

Pre at 74:01: “We are consuming the pain of the church, we're consuming the problems, we're consuming the failures... How can I contribute to the health of the church?”

Megan and Pre conclude by encouraging listeners to not only read Being a Sanctuary but also to engage with their communities through dialogue and collective action, promoting unity and understanding.

Pre at 75:37: “Get it for your pastor. Get it for your discipler. Get it for your church leader. Buy this book. We are so appreciative of you.”

---

Notable Quotes

• Pre at 07:26: “Another thing is, when you’re in an abusive church or leadership, and you don’t have context for any of these scriptures because you didn’t really read them.”

• Megan at 19:55: “You can complain, but, like, what is the solution?”

• Pre at 66:59: “Suffer with those who suffer. Mourn with those who mourn. Grieve with those who grieve.”

• Pre at 72:52: “It’s about me,” reflecting on the need to prioritize others' suffering over personal discomfort.

---

Conclusion

Episode 47 of "In Totality" offers a profound exploration of transforming the church into a true sanctuary—one that heals, embraces diversity, and provides meaningful support for those in suffering. Megan Ashley and Precilis Dominguez collaboratively emphasize the importance of authenticity, empathy, and proactive engagement in creating a compassionate Christian community. Their insightful dialogue not only addresses longstanding issues within the church but also provides actionable steps for listeners to contribute positively to their faith communities.

For those interested in deepening their understanding and contributing to the church’s healing, Precilis Dominguez’s Being a Sanctuary is a highly recommended resource.

---

Note: To explore more about Megan Ashley and "In Totality," visit www.themaganashley.com.

Transcript

[Megan Ashley]

Hey there, In Totality fam, we need your help. We're running a quick audience survey and we love to hear from you. Head over to Gum FM Totality. It's super simple and we want to keep bringing you content that you love. Let's be real, guys. You know it, we know it. There are ads on our podcast and we want to make the experience better for you. We need to learn a little more about who's tuning in. By filling out this short survey, you'll be helping us improve the show. It's quick, easy, free, and it'll take you just two minutes. Your feedback makes a huge difference to us. So head over to Gum FM Totality. That's G U M F M T O T A L I T Y And let your voice be heard. Thanks for being such an amazing part of our community. Let's get back to the show with the $5 meal deal at McDonald's. You pick a McDouble or a McChicken, then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. That's a lot of McDonald's for not a lot of money.

[Pre]

Price of participation may vary. For a limited time only.

[Megan Ashley]

And I've been hurt by the church and I've. I've had some really painful things. Some of the most painful things that I've experienced and that people have done to me have been people who have been in the church and so tell us about being a sanctuary and how you're dressing some of this hurt that happens in the church context.

[Pre]

In the past 10 years, my time in the faith as I returned, it's been a lot. It's been a lot of pain. It's been a lot of a lotness. And when I kind of spent time in the pandemic reflecting on, I was like, I just don't think this is God's vision. I can't think that this is what he intended or formed the church to be.

[Megan Ashley]

Hey, you guys. Welcome to Into a place where we celebrate authenticity and openness. We're here for those who are willing to explore, those who embrace imperfections, and for those with open hearts and minds. I'm excited to embark on this journey with you. And while I can't predict every twist and turn, I'm certain that God will be by our side with every step of obedience. Welcome to In Totality with me, your host, Megan Ashley. What's up, you guys? Welcome back to a brand new episode of In Totality. I am your host, Megan Ashley and I'm so thankful that you are joining me for another episode. Listen, you guys, before we get into all the things and I introduce to you my special guest today, I want you to hit the subscribe button right now. Make sure you subscribe to this channel. Make sure you don't miss out on anything that we have going on. Make sure you, like, hit the like button, too. That really, really, really helps spread of all the things that we're doing. So subscribe like join my Patreon. My Patreon community has been growing and it's amazing, guys. We've been doing a Bible study every Tuesday. Right now we're in the Book of Acts and it's been just an incredible experience going through the Book of Acts and seeing just what the church looked like in the early days. It's just been so inspiring. It's been convicting in ways. It's challenged me. It's growing me and all of us. And we're doing it together as a community and it's just been amazing. You'll also see bonus content of my guests that come on the podcast. You'll see bonus content exclusively on Patreon. You'll also see the In Totality Docu series, which is like my vlog. You'll see kind of the behind the scenes in my life, see my kids, see me traveling, all the things. So it's not something you want to miss. So make sure you join my Patreon. And yeah, that's all the things. Oh, also Acts 242 conference with Jackie Hill Perry and I are hosting a discipleship conference. And you don't want to miss that. Like, you just don't. It's going to be incredible. We have some amazing speakers. And yeah, the, the, the mission is, is real plain, is make disciples. The focus is Christ and that's it. There's no, there's no hype. There's no, like, special singer or like, no confetti. It's like none of that. It's just Jesus in the Bible. And so it's enough, right? So, yeah, make sure you get your tickets. If there are tickets left, make sure you get it. I would love to see you there. Now for today's episode. Speaking of the Book of Acts, speaking of the church, I have a guest here who I'm so excited to meet in person. I've been following her and following her work for some time now, and she just wrote an amazing book called Being a Sanctuary. Welcome Pre. I'm not going to say her whole name because I would mess it up. So I'm just gonna say welcome, my girl, Pre. Hey, Free. Hey, girl.

[Pre]

Hey, man. I was literally about to say. I was like, oh, my gosh. Y'all are reading acts.

[Megan Ashley]

I know. So isn't that cool?

[Pre]

Very aligned.

[Megan Ashley]

I love. So I. First of all, I'm so happy that you're here. Thank you for coming. Thank you. I'm so just thankful that you flew all the way from my favorite city, New York.

[Pre]

I love that it's so many people's favorite city. I do love it. A lot of people be like, I hate living here. I'm like, I'm so sorry.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. I love. I love New York. I've been there. So I. I try to make it. My. My plan is always to go at least like, once or twice a year. But this year, I've been there, like, four times. I can't wait to go back. I'm going to Brooklyn at some point next month for a thing that I'm doing, and I'm just like, I. It's my favorite place, and especially in the fall.

[Pre]

So you're like the. Huh.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes, you can. I will go to New York in the fall. Over anywhere. It is my favorite. There's something about it. The air just is like.

[Pre]

Yeah, it's. Well, I'm not, like, I'm not gonna get too into. But I'm like, it smells less nasty.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Because the. Because the summer New York, girl, we were there. We were there for the Perry's when they did the tour.

[Pre]

And that area, particularly Upper west side, there's something. It's a.

[Megan Ashley]

And that's where we were at. We were in Manhattan area. It's like, why in the heat just makes everything funkier.

[Pre]

Funkier.

[Megan Ashley]

I said, what is going on? No wonder I usually only come in the fall. I'm coming back in the summer.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

No, it's not pleasant, but it's a beautiful city.

[Pre]

It is.

[Megan Ashley]

And how long have you been. Are you born and raised?

[Pre]

My life. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So born and raised.

[Pre]

I mean, I spent some years. Childhood years in Dominican Republic, which is where my family's from, but outside of that. Yeah. Most of my life.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you love it?

[Pre]

I do love it. I don't love how expensive it is.

[Megan Ashley]

It is.

[Pre]

I don't love that. But everything else I do love about it.

[Megan Ashley]

That's awesome. So tell us before we get into this amazing book that you wrote, Congratulations. How many now? This isn't your first book. It is your first book. Why do I. Because you're. I feel like I know you for pushing books.

[Pre]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

You. You do such an amazing job at introducing your audience to good content. And it's always, like, intentional to whatever is going on in our culture. Like, during Women's Month, like, you were, like, giving us good Christian women content, and like, Black History Month, you were giving us good Christian black content. I was like, oh, she's so intentional. I love this. Yeah. That love for books, is that always been, like, your thing or.

[Pre]

Yeah. So when I was little, I actually. And to this day, it's very interesting. I had an iep. I don't know if they call it an IP everywhere else.

[Megan Ashley]

My son. My son is. He is autistic, so he has an IEP too.

[Pre]

So I had an ip, but my mom was an immigrant that didn't know English. Like, she just didn't know. She was like, what do I do with this? And now, you know, they're doing much better with, like, having a translator person, all this stuff. But, like, she just was like, okay, I don't know what this is. So I actually found that IP when I was like, 28, which is crazy. Just a few years ago.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Pre]

Not that long ago. Because I'm. I'm a young bird, but I'll get it twisted.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, that was just yesterday.

[Pre]

That was yesterday.

[Megan Ashley]

Yesterday.

[Pre]

But. So actually, as a child, like, I struggled a lot with, like, reading and just school and then going back and forth from Dr. Didn't necessarily help academically. And then I was an English major in college, kind of like to, like, fight against, like, everything that I've been told about, like, my English and my writing. Um, and then funny enough, 10, 15 years later, I wrote a book.

[Megan Ashley]

But.

[Pre]

But in the. In between of all of that, I have loved always reading.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Pre]

And really, more than anything, learning from other people. I think sometimes, like, okay, I won't always have the opportunity to, like, get another degree or go some go somewhere else, but I can learn from someone from the words they have written.

[Megan Ashley]

So I. I feel like people who live in the States are like, live here and English is our first language, and it's all we knew know. I feel like we take advantage of reading books because I hear that so often from people who are immigrants or people immigrants as parents. They. They. They read. Like, they just love read. They fall in love with reading. And it convicts me every time because I struggle.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

To read. I struggle. I do a lot better now, but I, like, struggle to read, even just.

[Pre]

The time, like, yeah, yeah. I've actually. I was like, anti audible for years, and then I was just like, girl, what is this pride that you have against Audible? Like, did they do something to you.

[Megan Ashley]

Helping me right now? Come on, help me.

[Pre]

And then last year, I just, like, I downloaded the app and I listened to a whole book, like, in the week, doing dishes and doing different things. I'm like, wow, I can read a book while I do other things.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And, like, I still love to sit and read, but, like, I can't always do that. And especially being in seminary, like, I only have the assignments, things that I have to read. So it's just so interesting. Like, I just got into Audible and I read so much more. Like, on the plane, I listened to, like, half a book. Wow.

[Megan Ashley]

Now, are you reading the book as you're like, are you looking at. Or you're just.

[Pre]

Literally, I'm just listening.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Because I felt like if I did that, I was, like, being lazy.

[Pre]

No.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay. So you're helping me.

[Pre]

I mean, I think, like, if that. If that's the only. Like, the only way you read, maybe. But, like, yeah, I feel like it's like listening to a podcast, obviously. Right. So it's like, yeah, it's just a book.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that.

[Pre]

I think it would be, like, in New York. Like, you ain't ever gonna find me in New York. Listen, reading a book and looking down, I'm looking at my surroundings. So now I can read a book, listen audible, and also watch all of y'all to make sure nothing's going down. And if so, I'm getting off the train. So, you know, it just. It creates opportunity to be mindful and paying attention.

[Megan Ashley]

She's like, I. It says to be watchful.

[Pre]

I ain't looking down.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Pre]

I'm looking at you and at you and at you. That's it.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what's crazy is that as much as I love New York, I stopped going there. I think it was probably after 2020, I stopped riding the train. I have a fear now of, like, getting on the train. I won't do it. I don't know what that is, but it's. I'll just Uber or I'll walk. I will walk blocks and blocks. But to get on the train, next time I go, you'll have to. I'll have to go with you.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Since you looking.

[Pre]

Yeah. Because as long and I see something weird, I'm like, that's about to pop off. Get on to the next car. Like, I just, like, I don't react to. I'm just like, next thing. Moving right along.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, what's the craziest thing that you've seen.

[Pre]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Ashley]

On the train.

[Pre]

Is this allowed to tell me.

[Megan Ashley]

So why do you feel like ACTS is necessary? Like, what makes this conference different?

[Pre]

I think when we look at the country of America and then when we look at the state of Atlanta in particular, I think you see a few things. I think you see low biblical literacy. I think you see a form of godliness. I think you see hypocrisy. I think you see prosperity teaching. And I think we have a lot of people who are picking at and exposing and criticizing and critiquing, but not also fixing the problem.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

So to me, it just seems necessary to not just talk about it, but actually do something.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. I feel like there's a hunger to know the Lord. Right. And I feel like to present a conference for them to really meet the Lord. Right. Where it looks just like the Lord's original intent for his church, where it's equipping the saints with the teaching of the Word. Right. Not the teaching of an opinion, not the teaching of a motivational speech or, you know, I think that like Christ centered, like a fully Christ centered conference where it's getting back to the basics. Yeah. I want to know the crazy. Okay. Within parameters.

[Pre]

Okay. I'm not going to mention the crazy. I'm going to mention the second to craziest. I saw someone bring a fold out table.

[Megan Ashley]

No, you didn't.

[Pre]

And they put it in front of the seat.

[Megan Ashley]

No, they didn't.

[Pre]

And they took. And they had a whole banquet.

[Megan Ashley]

No, they didn't.

[Pre]

And they ate their meal.

[Megan Ashley]

You are lying.

[Pre]

They ate their meal.

[Megan Ashley]

By themselves.

[Pre]

By themselves. This was like 12 years ago. I remember I was in college and I said, well, sir. Well, sir.

[Megan Ashley]

Did he have another. Like, was he hoping somebody would join him? He just had his chair.

[Pre]

It was his meal. It was his time.

[Megan Ashley]

No, he.

[Pre]

And it wasn't McDonald's. It was like a meal. It was like a steak. I don't remember. It was very nice. He had real utensils. And I said, what are we doing?

[Megan Ashley]

You are not.

[Pre]

What are we doing in New York? It's different, girl. It is different.

[Megan Ashley]

I've seen some interesting things.

[Pre]

Yeah. And you know what happens? No one reacted to it. That's also what.

[Megan Ashley]

And that's how you know. That's how you know the real New Yorkers from the people that are visiting.

[Pre]

They'Re just like, oh.

[Megan Ashley]

Because when they not paying, when people just be walking past crazy. I'm like, oh, you used to this. Oh, you used to this this is what y'all.

[Pre]

Very normal.

[Megan Ashley]

Very normal. Okay. I want to get into all things being a sanctuary. I'm so excited to read this because, number one, just by following you and listening to your content, I love how authentic you are. Like, I just love that I'm drawn to authenticity. People who can just keep it real. You don't sugarcoat it, but you say it with love.

[Pre]

Thank you.

[Megan Ashley]

But you do. But you do keep it very real.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And you be gathering people's edges every time. Like, there was something that you said during Black History Month, and I was like, oh. I said, I don't know if they knew that. They. They just got gathered. Like, you be gathering people. And I love it. Which is. Makes me excited to read this because I'm a church girl. I grew up in church, and I've been hurt by the church, and I've. I've had some really painful things. Some of the most painful things that I've experienced and that people have done to me have been people who have been in the church. And so tell us about being a sanctuary and how you're dressing some of this hurt that happens in. In the church context.

[Pre]

Yeah. Well, I'm also a church girl, grew up going to church and have left for a little while, I think. What Similar. But some similar stories, but I left a little for a little while and actually just, like, completely stopped believing. Actually a little similar to Dr. Sarita's testimony in college. Like, was into, like, a lot of other things, but not Jes. Jesus. And so when I'm thinking about in the past 10 years, my time in the faith as I returned, it's been a lot. It's been a lot of pain. It's been a lot of a lotness.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And what I. When I kind of spent time in the pandemic reflecting on, I was like, I just. I just don't think this is God's vision. I just. I can't think that this is what he intended or formed the church to be.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And. And I. And I always want to be careful to be like, well, not all churches are unhealthy. Not all. Right. But we are also. We are a body. So we can say, well, that church over there only know their finger in the body. Right. So this is a collective problem that we have. We can have collective solutions, but we have to see it as a everyone's problem kind of thing. And so being sanctuary is really meant to help people see that. That everything that we're pointing at people's experience with Wounds and church hurt, uniformity in the church, racism in the church, sexism in the church, lack of compassion towards people with mental, mental health issues or mental illness or people with disabilities. Like all of this is too, we're being too passive about it and we're not returning to what God intended, which is to be a sanctuary in the sense of being people who are Bible based. So if we're looking for the answers and solutions on how to be the church, we don't have to look for another church model example. It's in the Bible, right. It's in the book of Acts and all throughout the Bible. Right. Thinking about also being trauma informed people, like majority of people have gone through some sort of trauma. And so for us to not be trauma informed people, for us to not respond with, with compassion and to not respond in seeing the image bearer in front of them and just kind of wanting them to like, yeah, passively move on or just you don't pray enough or you need to like just heal and forgive or just forgive. Just forgive and you'll be fine.

[Megan Ashley]

As if that's easy.

[Pre]

Just forgive.

[Megan Ashley]

Because it's like, what do you mean by that? Right?

[Pre]

Like just.

[Megan Ashley]

And how.

[Pre]

Because when people say just forgive, like that's not a trauma informed way and approach to being with other people.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And then seeing justice as a very like departmental or like oh, some people are called to justice work. And I'm like, no, God, God's heart is justice if you can see it from Genesis to Revelation. So if you're saying that is a department, then you have misread the entire Bible. So really it came from being a sanctuary place of like, I wanted to help the church kind of return to an ancient idea which is God's idea for the church. I think we're trying to move very quickly and progress and find successful ways to be the church and be the body. And it's just like, well, let's go back to the basics so we can go forward. Yeah. In a healthy way. And being a sanctuary. The word sanctuary came from a place of thinking and we're just like, well who is God to us and what does he want to be in the world? He doesn't necessarily. He's not saying go and be Christians, go and be. He's saying be a sanctuary to the world. That's, that's how we evangelize by being sanctuaries. That's how even how we do apologetics and how we communicate our testimony by being sanctuary. So it came from that place of like, I see the problem. And I'm not just going to, like, complain about it. I'm going to want to. I want to provide solutions and hopeful, like, path forward.

[Megan Ashley]

I think that that's a big thing that. That I want to encourage people to do more. And it was something that Jackie really helped me with because in my, like, I have a natural tendency in my flesh to be very critical of things because I'm hyper aware. I'm a hyper aware person. I see everything. And I don't always like that. I am aware of everything. I see everything. I'm sensitive to everything. And in doing that, before really submitting my life to Christ, it made me hypercritical of everything. And so I. I worked at a church back in Columbus and it was a major ministry. And I didn't steward that well because I was so hypercritical of all the things bad that was happening in the church. And you know how the pastor was mean and he, you know, and I would just complain all the time. All the time. I didn't have a heart that was. I was like. My heart was growing harder and harder as I was seeing more and more. And one thing that Jackie really helped me with when I. When I was here and I was seeing things happening in the Christian context on social media, and I'm hypercritical. I'm being critical and I'm like, did you see this? And did you see. And she's like, what are you going to do about it?

[Pre]

That's good.

[Megan Ashley]

You can complain, but, like, what is the solution? And maybe the Lord is allowing you to see it so that you can do something about it. Right. And so that's what I love about what you just said is like, okay, I'm not gonna, like, just complain, but I'm gonna do something about it. And so you talk about the church being soft, sacred, and safe. Are those three things that you highlighted or that you're highlighting in this book, is that coming from a place of your own experience? Like, what was your experience in church Y that really shaped and pushed you and inspired you, obviously. Obviously. Through the obedience of the Lord. But like, to write this book and especially in this time, because I feel like it's very timely.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, I'm really happy. Thank you. That you wrote this.

[Pre]

And we were intentional because we're in election season season. And so we were like, we don't want it to come in October, November, because we want to, like, read this in September so that you're. So you're prepared in November. And then also, you know, December, January, as those three months, things happen. Yeah. So I would say it's two things. It's both my personal experience, but then also from like you're saying kind of like observation. So I actually have like a social work background as a social worker and in social work school, you're taught kind of this model and structure to see things from a lens of like wanting to insert preventative measures and then insert intervention measures. Right now what I find is a lot of, in Christianity, we have a lot of intervention measures when someone, when a pastor, something morphe or whatever. Okay. He steps down. Like, that's an intervention. Right. And. And those are, and they're fine interventions. But I think God wants more prevention. Like, he's. He's more focused on like, well, yeah, we can't prevent everything. We can't prevent every abuse. We can't prevent everyone from. For taking advantage of people, all this stuff. But, like, we need to at least try. Yeah, like, we need to at least try. And so when I think of these three different components, that is what I thought of when it comes to like preventative measures. And then also, like I said, compared or in related to my story. So the first one, Bible based, is that in my first, I also worked for a church. And my first experience working at a church, I was communicated a lot of scripture either out of context or to manipulate me.

[Megan Ashley]

Ooh, can you give an example? Because people don't know. Yeah, because there's a lot of people who are in abusive church, you know, churches or leadership, and they don't know, like, because it is the Word, they can go to the Word and see that it's there. But how do, how does someone know the difference between someone giving you a word to maybe even, even if it is in correction, but the difference between that and like manipulating you.

[Pre]

Yeah, yeah. So a few examples was around Sabbath. So I worked for the church work, as in, I worked so, like Sunday was a work day. And they convinced us that it was Sabbath service. And I said, oh, okay, just. And so the Bible basis that I was not in my word, I was listening to someone else communicate the Word and in the wrong way. That was one example. Another example was when my first, my very first meeting with the pastor of this church, he shared that I shouldn't really communicate to my husband about hard things that I go. Yeah, that I go through in this church because it may make him stumble in his faith. And so he referred to that scripture about stumble, like, do not break your brother or sister stumble. Another I could Keep going. Like there are like several examples.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Pre]

Of using scripture. And so this is 2015, so I'm about a year or two in after like coming back to Jesus. So I didn't have much basis for any. I didn't have, have context for any of these scriptures that he was referring to because I hadn't really like read them stuff like that. So I was just like, yeah, for sure you're right. Agree, agree, agree. So when thinking about being sacred is to remember that like where the fact that there are so many people right now that don't have a translated Bible in their language and we do in English and we not reading it like right. Like, and, and so there's a disconnect. So we have to be Bible based people. We have to be in the. To know what it says. 1 so that nonsense don't happen to you. Right. Because that's a real thing. Manipulation, spiritual abuse, all that stuff. But then also, so you're living the scriptures out because if you don't know the scriptures then you don't know how to be like Jesus. All you're going to do is example from chosen shout outs to that Jesus love that show, love it actually really good. But like that's Jonathan Romy, my man. Like that's not Jesus. Like that's a script written right. Like that's not the Jesus I should follow, it's the one in the Bible. And, and so Bible based, it's really helping people kind of return to a place of being like Jesus, but also thinking and considering things when it comes to like unity right in the Bible. Like we're in a very uniformed place right now as a church. Like we want every Christian to dress and sound and think and look the same. We want all churches to look and sound and think the same. And it's just like that's uniformity, y'all. We know that that's not unity, right. Like we've mixed the two. And I would say uniformity is actually a sin because you're removing the unique image bearer that is that God formed to tell them, hey, be like everyone else around you. Don't be like you. But also don't be like Jesus, be like Christians around you. So that's what I mean by being like Bible based. Like really finding the answers on how to be a Christian. But also like how do we create this Christian culture in a healthy way? Because like it just, it ain't working.

[Megan Ashley]

It's not, it's not, it's not it. And growing up in church like you see that these same type of problems repeat but just show up in different ways. Right. So, like, prosperity was a thing. Prosperity teaching was a thing.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Even when I was growing up, it just looked a little differently than it does now. But it's still a thing, and it's still harmful to the church. And I think what you're. What you're saying is so, like, important for. And it's like, one thing that I'm really trying to encourage my audience to do, but also live myself, is to really know His Word. Because I grew up in church, and I, like, my mom knew the word, obviously, but I didn't ever just do it myself. I relied on her faith. You know what I'm saying or what? Like, you said what other people told.

[Pre]

Her, but then you end up on relying other people's theology, too, and their doctrine. So it's like, oh, well, I'm not LGBTQ affirming. Why? Oh, well, you know, it says in the Bible where. Oh, well, I don't. I think, you know, women shouldn't preach. Okay, cool. Who said that? Yeah. Where? Like, it's just. It's like, oh, my pastor said it.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

My bishop said it. My cousin said it.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm a bishop.

[Pre]

And it's like, did your savior say it? Does the Bible say it?

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

[Pre]

And it's like, whether. And maybe. So you actually may be right.

[Megan Ashley]

But.

[Pre]

But if you can't point to where it is, then you're wrong, because you don't have a defense, and you don't actually have a reason to believe what you're believing. It's just because someone else said it. We're liars, people. Human beings are, like, legit liars. Right. So it's just like, you could also not be understanding the full truth. He is the full truth.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

So it's understanding to that that we're just so adamant about our perspective and our side sometimes from a place of not even knowing where it is in the Bible.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And that's actually crazy to.

[Megan Ashley]

That's in. Okay. I've, again, I've grown up in church. I've heard a lot of things, and so there's a few things that I want to kind of just get your thoughts and heart on because you wrote this beautiful book to the church and to help us be more healthy and to be more equipped and to love people. Well. And I think that's the big, like, I think my biggest thing right now is, like, as I see. Help me, because, Lord, I don't want to. I try to Approach everything with gentleness. I try because I gotta. I'm real rowdy at nature, but like I am seeing so much toxicity in the way that we're treating each other as Christians. Yeah, right. This bishop is fighting with this bishop. This prophet is calling out that prophet, this preacher.

[Pre]

Devastating.

[Megan Ashley]

It's like ah, like it makes me so like I just want us to stop. And what's frustrating to me is like before you are a prophet to the nations, before you get your prophet degree. Because I guess there's a profit degree. I don't know what profit seminary school there is, but people are getting certificates and their profits online. Online or so it's like whatever before whatever angel descended and told you that you're a prophet of the nations. Whatever before you're. Before you are. Before you have the git. Like before you are the person working through whatever gift you think that the Lord gave you. Christ gave us two great commandments that we are supposed to be first preach. It's to love him, right? And how do we love him? We know his word and we obey his word. That's how he knows that we love him. That's what he says. Ends to love our neighbor.

[Pre]

It's real simple.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't understand why we think we can skip that and be a prophet or a bishop or an apostle or whoever and then. But not love God and not love his people. This episode of In Totality is brought to you by Ford. Why is being open to new roads and possibilities essential to success when chasing your goals? Listen guys, I am a regiment type of person. I love a schedule. I love a routine. But lately I have found so much joy and so much peace in just doing things that are not really in my schedule schedule. Sitting at the dinner table with my kids. Longer taking longer walks or even taking nice relaxing drives with the windows down, music blaring. Just little things like that. On the road of reinventing ourselves, it's just as vital to find those little things that give us a sense of stability. Like the new Explorer. You know there's more to Discover and the 2025 Ford Explorer SUV is here to give you the space for the things that matter most. It's time to break free from the norm, which has never been more fun and accessible for drivers with a 2025 Ford Explorer SUV. Turn up the adventure with Ford Digital experience including a 13.2 inch center touchscreen. Do what matters with the help of available Ford Blue Cruise driver assist technology for hands free highway driving. Available feature on blue cruise equipped vehicles. Blue Cruise requires a connected service plan and modem activation. Blue Cruise driver's assist features can be activated in hands free blue zones and do not replace safe driving and drivers need to control the vehicle. See four.comblue cruise for available details on available plans and hands free models. Start your next adventure in America's all time bestselling SUV based on sudden S P global mobility 1946 to current US total new cumulative registrations for all new vehicles identified as SUVs. The new Ford. Well, you know what it is? It's all in the name. The new 2025 Ford Explorer built Ford proud. What? Where is the disconnect? Why are we so lusty after? You know what I'm saying?

[Pre]

Yeah. And you're actually skipping it. I'm going to say a good five times because that great commitment is in the Old Testament.

[Megan Ashley]

Ok. Hello.

[Pre]

And then it's in a few gospels. So it's just like you're skipping several. You're not just skipping one line in the Bible. Like you're.

[Megan Ashley]

Y'all want to be Jeremiah and Isaiah and Elijah and so bad.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Just be a Christian.

[Pre]

So I think we've lost the heart and the idea of image. Being an image bearer.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And that like. And that includes some people. It might not like this, but it includes people that don't believe in Jesus. Right. Includes every human being on earth. And when Jesus went to the cross, he went for every human being on earth. Which means one thing. That we get to hold dignity, that we have worth because he said so. Not because anything we said did nothing, but because he said so. And so that knowledge and that truth is skipped when we want to be right, when we want to communicate our side, when we want to communicate our stance. And then we end up so focused on a side and a stance that we do forget the soul in front of us. Literally a chapter in my book Souls over sides and stances. And that probably the chapter is gonna get me like, I don't know, cancel something. People not gonna like it. Right. But it's because I'm telling it like what it is in regards to division.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Right. Of like I talk about a day that I won't even mention the date right now.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Pre]

But I'm sure many of us will figure it out. And I think about that day of like a whole bunch of people that probably would think that I'm less than human, that don't think anything of me. And I still get to see every single one of them as an image bearer. Someone God thought of. Someone God thought to form, to place on this earth with purpose and value. Like, yes, they're wild and they did that. But like, they also hold dignity and hold value. And I think we, we skip that part. And we don't see them as neighbor and we don't see them as loved by God, and we don't see them as someone that God formed in the sense that they were formed to be your brother and sister on this earth. Right. And so I think it becomes that, it becomes about titles. It becomes about my perspective no matter what. And I'm like, yo, you know you can disagree and like still love people. Yeah, like this is like. But disagree feels like people are like, oh, if I disagree has to come with disrespect.

[Megan Ashley]

I've tried milk kits before, but the taste of food just hasn't done it for me until now. This podcast is sponsored by Marley Spoon. Marley Spoon knows bland foods is boring. So they created the best tasting meal kit money can buy. And with my code totality, you can get up to 27 free meals with Marley Spoon. You can choose from over 100 delicious recipes every week. From Cajun spiced chicken to poached salmon to butternut squash gnocchi to a vegan burrito bowl. My favorite recent meal from Marley Spoon was their Tuscan spice steak. You can now indulge in their festive meals and desserts this holiday season with new premium protein recipes like duck breast with sour cherry sauce and crispy Persian rice. And dishes to make every meal special like the holiday breakfast waffle with candy bacon. And also, customers can enjoy exclusive taste from the Martha Stewart, its 100th cookbook with a selection of specially adapted recipes that will really elevate your holiday spread. And many of the recipes are completely customizable. So whether you are looking for a vegetarian meal, family friendly dishes or low carb option, Marley Spoon has the food you want to eat. My stomach is growling just talking about all this Marley Spoon food. I just cooked a recipe for Marley Spoon last night and my family loved it. There's something really rewarding about cooking food yourself and it tasting amazing versus doing expensive, unhealthy takeout. This holiday season, give the gift of great personalized food with Marley Spoon. Head over to Marleyspoon.com offer/T totality and use code totality for up to 27 free meals. That's right. Up to 27 free meals with Marley Spoon. One last time guys, that's Marley spoon.com offer backslash totality for up to 27 free meals. And make sure you Use my promo code, totality, so they know I sent you. All right, guys, back to the show. All right, guys, before we continue with this episode, I want you to meet my new friend, Byoma, the first symbiotic of its kind. A revolutionary blend of prebiotics, probiotics, and postbiotics, all combined in a single capsule to help you feel your best. Bioma isn't just another supplement. It's a scientifically backed formula designed to support digestion, boost energy, and even enhance skin health. Plus, with the powerful ingredients Tributerin and a smart delayed release capsule, Byoma goes straight to where it matters the most. Your gut. Sound familiar? Bloating, low energy, cravings you can't shake. These daily struggles are real and you're definitely not alone. Byoma has helped help thousands of people and especially popular among menopausal women for everything from hot flashes, mood swings, brain fog, weight management. So how does it work? Byoma's unique symbiotic formula restores health bacteria in your gut, giving your body what it needs to feel lighter and more energized. You'll start noticing benefits like clear skin, less bloating, and more balanced weight, all from bringing harmony back to your gut. People start Byoma because they want to feel better in their day to day, and it's been a game changer. Less bloating, more energy. It's incredible. And by judging from all the positive reviews, you are definitely not going to be alone in noticing the difference. Ready to feel the bioma difference? Head over to Bioma Health Totality and use totality for an exclusive 10 discount. Don't wait to take control of your gut health. Experience the benefits for yourself. All right, guys, back to the show.

[Pre]

Yeah, it has to come with division. It has to come dehumanization. I'm like, no, friends. There's. It's interesting because I talk about that verse in the book in reference to the Jewish and like, Samaritan issues.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Pre]

And I'm like, again, because we're not looking to the Bible. We are not realizing that we are repeating history.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Like they had all this beef, they dehumanized one another, oppress one another. I would say even more the Jewish community to the Samaritan. And I'm like, this is what we're doing in so many different levels and ways in. In not just America, I would say in the world, but particularly in America. And so I'm just like, if we're looking like, oh, how do I stop doing this? Go to the Bible. See how Jesus Treated Samaritan. How he walked through Samaria. How Samaria. He was so intentional to not just say a woman. He said the Samaritan woman.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Pre]

He didn't have to say that, but he specifically said that on purpose. When Peter and a few of them was, like, beefing about Samaritan, he's like. Like, y'all need to chill.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Because I love them, too.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

So it's really realizing that, like, you're not the most. You're not the one God loves only.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

You're not. You're not, like, his special. Like, he has made every single person as an image bearer, and we have forgotten that.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And we've missed that.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And it just. It really makes me really sad, and it devastates me.

[Megan Ashley]

It's. It's. It's disheartening, especially. And it should be. I feel like it should be, like, we should be grieved. I think the more you know God's word and the more that you're looking at how we are moving in culture and society, we should be grieved. We should be. And I. I think about, like, one thing that I feel like the Lord has always, like, recently checked me on, and I think that it applies to all of us. It's like, Megan, you are uniquely made, but you're not special, babe.

[Pre]

That's right.

[Megan Ashley]

You're not. I love you. And it doesn't, like, you're less valuable.

[Pre]

I think people connect that to saying, like, oh, she's saying she's not valuable. No one said that nowhere, honey. Right. Like, relax. We're just communicating that there's billions of people in the world and God sees value in each of them, not one above the other. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes. And I think when I looked at. So I told you I've been reading through the Book of Acts, and I think it's so important, and I'm so thankful that the Lord has led me to read it, especially right now, to really just see, like, the original intent for the church. It's just a beautiful book to me. But recently I've been reading, or I just got done going through Chapter 6 and 7 of Acts with my Patreon community. And I never. I've read this. I've been reading this since the beginning year. I've just been going back and, like, starting it over and over again. And when I went this past week, when I was reading 6 and 7, this stuck out to me. So, like, it was just blaring. Like, I didn't see it before, which is why you just, I love the Bible because you can read it and then not see something. And then you read it again, you're like, oh my God. Now this is glaring at me now that I didn't see before. But it's you, it and it, I think it speaks to how we can approach Christians who are, who live and come from different cultures and how we should take care of each other. But you see in chapter six where the, the Hellenistic Jews in the. I don't want to, I don't want to say it wrong, but the Aramaic Jews, they're having this issue with the widows, right? So we have the Greek speaking Jews and we have the Aramaic speaking Jews. Like we have these two Jews, same Jews, different cultures, right? And there's this issue with the, with the, with the widows. And we see the apostles deal with it and they. Not only do they deal with it with integrity and urgency, but they elect because the problem is the Hellenistic Jews are feeling left out. The widows are feeling left out. And then they choose seven, which seems to be Greek Hellenistic Jews, they choose seven leaders that speak to the issue that they can identify with the issue because they're the same. And I just thought that that was so beautiful and I've never seen that before because it made me think of man. How would it be if an all white church who was dealing with race issues appointed all black leaders to help their church? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I never saw that before, but the Bible is clearly showing us and giving us an example of what to do and how to deal with cultural issues.

[Pre]

So much of the New Testament is doing that. And that's why I'm like, what, what, what are we. Are what translation you reading? Are you reading the Passion translation? Let me stop. But you know, like, like, like what is going on? The New Testament is so much about unity of different cultures of different groups that if we miss that, we're not, we're not reading it well. Especially Acts and the Epistles, especially, right? And so in that that's a beautiful example of them being aware of representation and how it's not saying that we're this before we're Christian, right? We're not saying that. I think sometimes people think that because it's like, like people will say like, I'm a black Christian, like you put black in front of Christian. I'm like, you need to relax, you need to get some water and lay down because my God, like, sorry, right? So it's like I'm not saying get some water, please. I'm not saying black. I'm. That I'm black before I'm Christian. I'm not Dominican before I'm Christian. But it just. That's how we talk.

[Megan Ashley]

Right?

[Pre]

Like, it just, like, let it go. But it's also recognizing, like, yes, My. My lived experience as a Christian woman, specifically in New York, in this United States of America, is of a black Latin experience, is of a woman's experience. Right. I am not having the same lived experience as a Christian as my husband, as my son will. Right. And so it's. We're. We're. We're so uncomfortable.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Pre]

So then we make it like, oh, you're making it about something. It's not. No, you're making about something is not. Because much of the New Testament, it's about that. It's addressing those realities. And, like, you're talking about cultures, but it's also addressing the realities of different women and men. Right. It's addressing different realities of different kind of identities people hold. And I think that's beautiful because what it's showing is that God cares about our identity. He cares because he formed us that way. He was like, priscilla's is going to be a woman. Black woman live in New York, paying too much rent. Like, that's what that's going to be like.

[Megan Ashley]

I just think that it was just when I saw it, I was like, oh, wow.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Because I was raised in a church for most of my. Most of my life. Well, yeah, a majority of my life, from a teenager to adult, where the church was very mixed. And I would say borderline more on the black side, but none of its leaders reflected that. And I think that that's an issue.

[Pre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Pre]

And then it can move to, like, tokenism, so they'll just like, the higher one. Right. And it's like, also, no group is a monolith. So, like, that black one black person cannot speak to everyone. But especially if you're saying congregation was mixed and majority black, like, that just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, there's a church. New York, I would say, probably is the most diverse city in the country. And I remember when we were looking for a church, there was one church I kept, like, was really interested in and felt kind of like, drawn to. But one thing I couldn't break was that, like, the whole staff was white. And. And I just, like, I understand if, like, I live in Montana or if I live. Live in North Dakota. Like, I need to understand my setting. Like, I can't expect maybe a certain race to be on staff if, like, my setting does not reflect that.

[Megan Ashley]

That.

[Pre]

But New York.

[Megan Ashley]

But New York.

[Pre]

And so. And then they did hire a black person. And when was it? In the summer of 2020. And I said, oh, that was reactive. I'm not going there. Right.

[Megan Ashley]

Because that's a lot of that.

[Pre]

Because then it becomes too that we are reactive Christians. Nowhere in the Bible do you see Jesus react.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

He is a. He responds.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

He takes time to be wise, to respond. And so that's a component of it too. Like when we do see, like changes or like some other. Oh, wow, they are bringing diversity. I'm like, pay attention. Is it reactive? Is it response? Is it wisdom?

[Megan Ashley]

Is it.

[Pre]

They're tired of hearing complaints like, what actually is the reason behind it?

[Megan Ashley]

What is a way that we can in a healthy way approach? Because we are in an election season and it's I. When I tell you I hate election season, bro, I hate it. I just be like, lord, please can you just like, I just want to go away for a little bit and I'll.

[Pre]

Christmas.

[Megan Ashley]

Just skip to March. Just please, not even Christmas. March. Take me to March. Because then people get all mad again in January and then it takes February. Takes them a while.

[Pre]

Yes.

[Megan Ashley]

About March. We good.

[Pre]

They chill. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

It's like we chilling by March. I just want to get to March. But like, how can we as Christians approach this season in a healthy way? Because I do feel that this is a unique. Again, we're in a unique. Like the last election didn't feel as. I mean, it was unique, but it wasn't as unique as it was like before.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And. But now I'm like, how, like we're about to be in a weird, sensitive territory again. How can we approach this season in a healthy way where we're not going to be damaged? Because I'm not going to lie to you, 2020 made me not want. I. When I told you I was done with the church in 2020, I was done. There were certain artists, Christian artists, who I worship to their music and I could not. I couldn't even look at them.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So, like, how can we do this and hold on to our faith?

[Pre]

Yes. I'm just like, yeah. I'll say a few things. First thing is that we need to be prayerful. We need to be. I would say if we're concerned, consuming all this content and news and posts and articles, all stuff, our prayer should be the same amount of time. If it's more, then we're we're going to be influenced, we're going to be impacted in negative ways. So being mindful and setting boundaries on how much information we are consuming about what is happening in all the political stuff and being prayerful in that. Or even like, as you're watching it, being prayerful in the moment. Right. Like not having, oh, I'll pray for that later tonight. No, you don't. You going to sleep, right? So pray for that in that moment. Second thing I would say is consider what it means for you to be effective. So I think sometimes people, like I've been seeing people argue in the comment section about like something political, and I'm like, is this effective? Like, is this changing anything? You know, you're not changing that person's mind in many ways.

[Megan Ashley]

Argue.

[Pre]

Yeah. And, and sometimes you're, you're arguing, you're commenting so much back that you actually end up disrespecting them. You actually end up dehumanizing them. Like, at first it didn't start that way, but because you went back and forth, that's how the 13th comment ended up being right.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

So it's like, well, that's not 13th comment.

[Megan Ashley]

It's crazy.

[Pre]

Like, you hold to a whole stranger, right? So it's considering what is effective. Right? Like, well, probably the same person that you're referring to in those comments, maybe someone in your life thinks that way. How about you talk to them? Talk to them. I know it's easier to talk to the person in the comments because you don't know them and you're not in their face and you can say whatever, but talk to them. So it's considering what is effective, but particularly what is effective for the kingdom of God. What is effective for people to see Christians in this season, in this time, and see Jesus in what they're seeing. What is effective to keep people not weary and burdened by the church? Like, what is effective that would glorify God? That would be boundaries that we set. Moments that we keep ourselves from saying something, moments that we do say something like, like, really, I don't think we think enough about, like, how can I be effective?

[Megan Ashley]

Not just heard.

[Pre]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

And not just because I think that's.

[Pre]

Just make my point.

[Megan Ashley]

I just want to make my point.

[Pre]

That's not effective.

[Megan Ashley]

And it's like, no, how about you? Like, what is actually beneficial?

[Pre]

Like, a lot of Jesus. Jesus is so funny because like much of the New Testament, what's effective for him is like someone asks him a question and he asks another question.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Or he just changes the subject or he just walks away. I'm like, I love that for you, God, that, that this is how you're effective. Right. Like, that is how he recognized he is effective. Right. So acknowledging, okay, for me, in my setting, you know, living in a country, the country versus, like, living in a city, being maybe the culture you are, your gender, your age, whatever, it is like considering all those different kinds of things, who you're interacting with in real life, not. Not in the comment section and then going from there. Right. But it's. I think we need to really be reflective on, like, what is effective. Not just like, like, and again, not being reactive and not just like, wanting to say what I want to say. Like, I have a lot of thoughts about so many. Right.

[Megan Ashley]

I have so many thoughts.

[Pre]

I actually have my friend. I don't know if you know Felicia Masonheimer. You should follow her. She's amazing. Everyone should follow her. She has a ministry called Every Woman a Theologian. She creates a lot of theology resources for everyday Christians who maybe, like, can't go to seminary. And so we created a resource together for the election season. And it's completely free.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Pre]

It's 15 pages and talks through how to have dignity and unity in an election season. And it talks through, like, points on how to respond to certain things that people may say.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Pre]

And then it also walks through, like, certain scriptures.

[Megan Ashley]

Make sure you give me that link so we can. We'll put the link in the description.

[Pre]

Yeah. But we were. We live in kind of like, opposite. We're good friends, but we live like an opposite world of narratives. But we have a similar experience of, like, it's intense. Like, it's opposite ends, but it's intense.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And we were kind of like, talking a lot about it and like, like, trying to figure out, like, yo, how do we walk through this? And, like, stay sane and stay unified as a church? And so we came to the place of, like, we want to create a resource because people probably, probably a lot of people have the same questions.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And. And I think it's that it's also like seeking out resources that are out there that people are like, my book.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, this. And it's going to be so helpful for so many people. I can't wait. I have, I have a question for you because I'm interested in what your thoughts are on diversity when it comes to your personal community. I think, like, there was a time in my life where I just kept so many different type of people around me. Black, white, this. This religion that Religion even different, you know, who, you know, relation wise, like lgbtq. Like, I kept so many different type of people around me, and I. I thought that that was extremely healthy. And I still think to an extent it is very healthy because for me, it gave me empathy for certain situations. Like when there would be. When I would see, like, somebody who was Muslim and they were persecuted in a way, it gave me empathy and compassion because I had a face to put with. With a cause. Do you think that even as Christians. Because I see a lot of times that I see, like, my algorithm has changed drastically since fully surrendering my life to the Lord because I don't follow a lot of stuff anymore. But I see sometimes in the Christian context, it's like, I'll see certain things, like, all black or all white or all, you know, and I'm like, is that healthy for us? Shouldn't we be. Shouldn't we be more diverse? Like, it saddens me when I go certain, like, you know, Christian leaders, and I only see you around people that look like you.

[Pre]

Yeah, yeah. That look like you, that think like you. That sound like you. That would respond to what you. To that the way you would. Right. Like, I think so. One, when we think about, like, okay, Jesus said, okay, go and make disciples of all nations, then you're not doing that. You're making disciples of the nation that you identify with. That's right.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Your people around you.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Pre]

And so it's really considering that, like, yeah, you're actually not responding to what Jesus said in a serious way. But you're also just creating limitations for yourself. You're creating a little bubble for yourself. And is there comfort? Like, because, for example, I'm Dominican. I live in a neighborhood in New York that is predominantly Dominican. It is very comfortable for me to that certain extent. Like, I'm walking around my neighborhood, everything I need, like, the food I need. Right?

[Megan Ashley]

Like, yeah.

[Pre]

And I get certain uncomfortable sometimes because, like, I'm talking Spanish. They talk to me back in. In English because they're like, oh, she's dark and she's speaking Spanish. I'm like, I don't.

[Megan Ashley]

They're trying to. They think you're black.

[Pre]

Yeah. And I'm like, but y'all don't make. No, like, guys. Majority of us are black. But anyways. But right. There's a level of comfort because it's my people. But I've also, like, I went to high school where it's like 80 Koreans. The whole town was mainly like, Korean. Yeah. I went. I lived A Brooklyn for a year, that neighborhood was Hasidic Jewish. Like, I've lived around a lot, and New York is like that, too, in the extreme of, like, neighborhoods are very, like, high in a culture. Like, it's not usually, like, yeah, just, oh, it's a whole bunch of different people. It's like, usually there's one predominant group. And so being in those different spaces, I learned about a lot about those different kinds of people. And also, even seeing, like, when I was around the Korean community, majority of them were immigrants, I was like, wow, so many of Yalls stories are similar to mine. Wow. As in kids of immigrants. But I wouldn't maybe assume that or think that because it's from a different country, and obviously it's not. Not all the same. But there are similar similarities. And when we look at. Some people may not know this, but, like, in Dr. For example, in Dr. We share an island with Haiti, and there's just so much, like, division and beef between people. And it's so interesting because we are also very similar in a lot of ways, and I think we want to create distinctions from one another. Like, we want to be like, oh, you're like this. And I'm like that. Y'all over there. We're over here. And I'm like, y'all need to relax. Like, that's.

[Megan Ashley]

That's your next book. Y'all need to chill. Y'all need to relax and drink some water.

[Pre]

I don't know if you remember, like, all those, like, movies that we watched growing up where, like, high school would have, like, little, like, in the lunchroom would have different kinds of people.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Like the cards or whatever. Yeah. Like, mean girls. I don't think people, like, they don't do that anymore. Movies anymore.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, they don't do the movies no more. But, yeah, they still acting like that in school, right?

[Pre]

Yeah, but it's like, we're actually been doing this forever, so, like. And there's a. An acceptance. Like, okay, they're kids. Like, they're trying to figure out. But, like, we're adults. We're adults, and we. We still haven't figured out, like, having a diversity group around us is, like, really important, essential. And so I think it's. It's. It's many things, but I think it's, like, this wanting to be so comfortable to a point that, like, we just don't consider other people. I think this also happens with churches, with tribalism. Like. Like, it's my church.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Like, you know, like, I don't got no Friends. And no, I'm like, so you don't. You don't know other Christian friends, but the Christians in your church? Yeah, I remember my husband and I went to a wedding a few years ago, and we had. It was a girl from a church we had. Were in previously. And we went. And when I was there, I was like. To my husband, I was like, do you notice something? He's like, what? He's like, everybody here's from the church we were at. Like, we're the only ones that don't go there. He's like, what do you mean? I'm like, every guest here, except us, goes to that church. That's crazy. First of all, there was not one non Christian there. And second of all, they were all from that one church. That couple had made their entire life that community and that community alone. And I think that's problematic. And I think that actually is what creates little tribes, which is also what causes division and what causes people to be on sides when we're all in the same side. We are on the side of the body of Christ. And so it's. It's definitely. Definitely several things. But I think we need to have a diversity of people around us and also go to, like, with my conference. That's why I'm very intentional with the people that I invite to speak.

[Megan Ashley]

And not just diverse.

[Pre]

Not just diversity and race, but in relationship status. Right. Like, I feel like every conference I go to is always a married woman, and I love that for that. I'm a married woman. I relate to that. But I want to learn from my single sisters. Right. Like, considering, like, every woman got 10 kids. Like, what about women who don't have kids? Like, you know, like, it's just. It can feel like this, like, one profile. And I was like, y'all. Like, there's so much more to humanity. Like, there's, like, so many different kinds of people.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And so it's really considering diversity. Yes. Racially. But, like, just you mentioned different, like, forms of, like, diversity. Right. Like religious diversity, sexual orientation, all those different kinds of things. It's important.

[Megan Ashley]

And I think with. Even, like, with the COVID your book. So I. I've noticed a few things about the COVID your book, and I want to ask you about it because I think it's just so cool, number one. I just think it's so different and unique, and I want to know more about it. But one thing that stuck out to me was this band aid. Has it. Has people been bringing this up to you? So what is this Band Aid, because that was the thing that stuck out to me the most.

[Pre]

Yeah. So it's two things. It's supposed to represent people who have been wounded in the church, but also it's supposed to represent people who come to church wounded and who are look because really, you know, a lot of people say like, oh, church is like a hospital. I'm like, yeah, it really is. The body of Christ should be a place where people look to get healing and be restored. And so it's kind of like a twofold and saying both these groups belong to the church and belong in the church.

[Megan Ashley]

I, I saw it and I think what got my attention was because there were, there was a time in my life where I self harmed, I battled with suicide since I was a teenager. And so when I saw that, I Spark something uncommon this holiday with just the right gifts from Uncommon Good Goods. The busy holiday season is here and Uncommon Goods makes it less stressful. With incredible hand picked gifts for everyone on your list. All in one spot. Gifts that spark, joy, wonder, delight and it's exactly what I wanted type of feeling. Look, they've searched the entire globe for original, handmade, absolutely remarkable things. Somehow they know exactly the perfect gift for every single person you know. Here's a few of my favorite gifts that I found on the site. Listen, anyone who knows me, they know I love charcuterie boards and they have the most amazing cheese and cracker boards. I'm getting them for everyone that I know. When you shop at Uncommon Goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Many of their handcrafted products are made in small batches. So shop now before they sell out. Before the holiday season. Uncommon Goods looks for products that are high quality, unique and often handmade. Made or made in the US they have the most meaningful out of the ordinary gifts anywhere. They even have gifts that you can personalize. From holiday hosts and hostess gifts to the coolest finds for kids, to hits for everyone. From book lovers to die hard sports fan, Uncommon Goods has something for everyone. Not the same old selections you can find just anywhere. And with every purchase you make, they give back a dollar to a non profit profit partner of your choice. They've donated more than $3 million to date. All right guys, listen. To get 15 off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com totality that's UncommonGoods.com totality for 15 off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer Uncommon Goods where we're all out of the ordinary. All right guys, listen. We all know that There are things in life that we have to compromise on. Like the apartment that's in your budget, but with an upstairs neighbor who plays loud music at the most inconvenient times. Or going to the grocery store that's always out of everything just because it's nearby. But when it comes to your health, there's no compromise. So don't go back to that doctor who uses your appointment to catch up on the latest headlines, family group chats, their crossword puzzles just because they're available right now, or they take your slightly sketchy insurance instead. Check out ZocDoc, the place where you can find and book doctors who will make you feel comfortable, listen to you, and prioritize your health. And you can search by location, availability and insurance. So literally no compromise here because with zocdoc, you've got more options than you know. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare highly rated in network doctors near you and instantly book appointments with them online. We're talking about in network appointments with more than 100,000 healthcare providers across every specialty, from mental health, dental health, eye care, skin care, and much more. You can filter specifically for ones who take your insurance, locate it near you and treat almost every and any condition you're searching for. These doctors are all verified reviews from actual real patients, not robots. Plus, Zocdoc appointments happen fast, typically within 24 to 72 hours of booking. You can even score same day appointments. I use ZocDoc and so should you. Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to zocdoc.com totality and find and instantly book a top rated Dr. That Zocdoc.com totality Zocdoc.com totality All right guys, back to the show immediately. Saw myself with bandages on my wrist because I used to have to cover up, which is why I always wear like a bunch of. I got so used to it, so now it's a habit. But I always wear a bunch of stuff on my wrist because it hides a lot of my scars. And so when I saw that, it made me think of just that time in my life where I was hiding and covering up and, and just the church experience when it comes to people who really battle with mental health issues. And I almost feel like the conversation becomes so taboo where we don't really talk about the real about it. It's more of this like be free, the Lord set you free. You know, just pray, just pray. You're not praying enough. You don't have a relationship with God. And that's what you know. And I feel like we don't know how to have hard, uncomfortable conversations even so much to the point of just being of having humility to say, I don't know. I actually don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what to say.

[Pre]

I don't have an answer for you. I don't have a solution for you.

[Megan Ashley]

So what in your book is, is that people can look to, to help them for those who are hurt and even for those maybe who don't deal with this issue. Because I have, have been more wounded by people's response to me because of what I've dealt with and what I, what I battle with, then, you know.

[Pre]

Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

How can they, what can they look forward to in your book that will help with that specific issue? Because we talk about abortion, lgbtq, like we're, we can talk about those things all day, but it's like, what about those who have, like, for me, I, I was diagnosed with bipolar depression. What about those people?

[Pre]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

What about those? You know.

[Pre]

Yeah. So chapter five and thank you for sharing that. I think just being able to communicate that is important because some, it's just not something I feel like a lot of Christians talk about. Even like, yeah. Hard things that people have gone through. And so chapter five of my book is called A Collective. A Collective Response to Suffering or the Practice of Presence. And literally the title has an or in it because a part of the training or the understanding of trauma, informed care is that you are giving people options. One of the things as Christians sometimes is that we want to save. So we just. The option is Jesus always. He's, is the, he's always the option.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

But we need to, in our support, in how we want to help people heal, we need to provide options. I think about it as, maybe I don't know how your kids are, but my son is three and so I give him options. Right. Like, I don't just say here just this sometimes, or like this is all you. Like, it's giving him options as he can, as he has considerations. And so I'm like, if I'm compassionate towards a three year old who's going to throw something at me in five.

[Megan Ashley]

Minutes, for sure, for sure.

[Pre]

Then like, why can't I have that same compassionate level to someone going through something or in suffering.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

And so it's those two things. The first part of collective understanding or collective response to suffering. Because in First Corinthians, it says, suffer with those who suffer.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Pre]

Don't watch those who suffer from afar. Don't tell those who suffer they hope you feel better. Suffer with those who suffer. Mourn with those who mourn. Grieve with those who grieve. Right. And so what does that mean with. That means you have to be with them. And that looks a lot of different ways. Right. I have friends that don't live in New York City, and that's.

[Megan Ashley]

They.

[Pre]

That's. That looks different for them in supporting me. But really, it's considering that, like, what does it mean to suffer with someone? And then the second part of saying or practicing presence is to be with people and not feel like you have to, like, make them feel bad. You said the thing about, like, it being hard and uncomfortable. That's why we don't do it, because it's hard and it's uncomfortable. But we have to be willing to step into that. That is another way that we are being like. Like Jesus. There have been plenty of times where I'm on the floor, laid out, crying, not knowing what to do, what options I have. Even mad at God. And he's maybe not saying anything, but his presence is making an impact. He's literally like, I can't see him. Yeah, but his presence is making an impact. Our presence makes an impact more than we know. And I think in. In realizing that that could be, like, uncomfortable or, like, something that, like, dang. Well, I don't like awkward silences. It's not about you that you're not there suffering.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

[Pre]

So it. I'm sorry that you're uncomfortable with quietness.

[Megan Ashley]

Shows are. It shows how succeeded we are.

[Pre]

It's about me.

[Megan Ashley]

I can't just sit with you in this silence because silence makes me uncomfortable. I can't just sit with you in silence because I have a savior complex. And I just want to fix it, because fixing it makes me feel good.

[Pre]

Exactly.

[Megan Ashley]

But I. I think about a moment that I had with the Lord, and it brought so much like, oh, okay, then we can be this way to people, to one another. But I was, like, going through it in my bed upstairs. I was just, like, crying, like, oh.

[Pre]

My God, I just want to die.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, just going through it. I mean, having a pity party. And I'm just, like, crying out to God. I'm like, I'll do anything. I just don't want to feel this pain. And I. And then I just got quiet because I was like, maybe I should shut up. To actually hear, like, if he says anything, because you know, sometimes we just be like, complaining. It's like, well, if you're quiet enough, right. Like, he might give you some instruction. And so I was like, let me just be quiet for a minute. And like you said, I felt his comfort. Like, I felt his presence because he was with me.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And then I just felt like he was like, clean your room.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And I was like. Like, yes. Huh. And so I cleaned my room, and I started to feel this burden lift. And then I felt like he was like, go outside and play with Jonah. Much is my youngest. So I went outside and I played basketball with Jonah. And all of a sudden I had joy.

[Pre]

Wow. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

All of a sudden I'm laughing, having a good time playing basketball with him. And just an hour ago, yeah, I was weeping, not knowing if I wanted to live. Complaining, sad, burdened all.

[Pre]

You know what's powerful about that too, is that sometimes we in the world, we have like, these go to things that we think will make people feel better. Like, I wouldn't think cleaning my room, you know, like, no, don't want to. Right.

[Megan Ashley]

The last thing I wanted to do, it's right.

[Pre]

But it's listening to the Holy Spirit to see, like, what is actually needed in this moment. Right. Like the go to things are like a glass of wine, some circuit thing, binge, whatever. Right. And it's just like. And then if be. If you're on the other end, the friend that's trying to be present.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Pre]

Maybe in that awkward silence that you're uncomfortable with. Listen to the Holy Spirit.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

What is he saying? Yeah. To like. Yeah, do for that person or with that person. Right. Like, it's. It's just so important to consider those things.

[Megan Ashley]

Considering those things and not. Not confining God to one thing.

[Pre]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So I'm sad. So just so. Just getting your word? Yes.

[Pre]

Yes.

[Megan Ashley]

Read it daily. Know it, love it.

[Pre]

Tell me the last time you were super sad and angry and you went to the Word and you got you like, you felt like, I'm. I'm sorry, but, like, I was a few days ago, I was going through it and I went to where I.

[Megan Ashley]

Was like, I don't want to do this is whack.

[Pre]

This don't make no sense right now. Forget this. Someone sent me worship. So I was like, whatever. I was like, this song is whack. They're like, you love this. I'm like, nah, it's whack. It's whack.

[Megan Ashley]

Because that's true.

[Pre]

So it's realizing, like, yo, like, we're humans, right. And there's gonna be. And there's moments also like that where I'm going through it. And. And the word is. But again, it's like, it's not formulas to a very specific moment. It's being present with the person.

[Megan Ashley]

And I think that's what. Just how the Lord does it for us. We can be that for other people. We can sit there and maybe see something like, you know what? What? While you sit here and while you're going through the things, I'm going to clean your room.

[Pre]

That's right.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm going to do your dishes.

[Pre]

Someone please come to my house and come.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Pre]

Clean my side. My husband's super, like, organized. I be like you. You have a lot of compassion because our sides of the room look very different.

[Megan Ashley]

You know, it's. Someone needs to go. It could be something little. I think that we think that we have to, like, fix it in a certain way or that even God is going to fix it in a certain way. And it's like, just be sensitive and open to what he might do. And you never know how that could change because I literally felt that. Like, I felt it go off, I felt it lift. And all of a sudden I had joy. And I was just like, thank you, Lord.

[Pre]

But it's listening. Yeah. So the first chapter in my book is actually called Selah Will Be Our Saving Grace.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that.

[Pre]

And it's about stopping, like, to shut up.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

Like, to be quiet and listen.

[Megan Ashley]

Listen.

[Pre]

Listen to God. We have lost the art of.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that. I love that. I'm so excited for your book. I'm so excited that you came in and. And blessed us and told us all about the things I have at the end of every episode. I do journal prompts because I love journaling. And I just. I have so many people that follow me that have started to adopt that of journaling. And I just think it's a healthy way to kind of process what we hear, because a lot of. I mean, there's so many podcasts. There's so much content out there, and you're just consuming, consuming, consuming and not processing. Like, what did I actually hear? What can help me? Like, I like application. So what can they. What's a good journal prompt that you can give the listeners to help them maybe process through some of the topics that we talked about and even for your book, because everyone's going to get it. I am the black Oprah. Christian Oprah. I. I've decided to be that for myself. I promote Everybody's book. If you got a book, I'm promoting it. So everyone's going to get this book. Book. What can they. What's a good journal prompt to help them digest this conversation in your book?

[Pre]

Yeah. Well, I love the word that you just used of just like consume. I think that's. I would say my biggest, kind of. One of my biggest points in the book is for us to move from consumers to contributors. So we are consuming the pain of the church, we're consuming the problems, we're consuming the failures, we're consuming the binging of. Of all this stuff. And it's like, well, the question is, how can I contribute to the health of the church, to the building of the health of the church? Because you can. I think we make it too much about, like, well, the pastors have to do this and the people. No.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Pre]

You are a member of the body of Christ and you hold equal effective power. So what can you do to contribute to the health of the church?

[Megan Ashley]

That's good. That's good. Thank you so much for being here. You guys go get priest book. But being a sanctuary, it's available. It dropped already, right?

[Pre]

No, well, it depends on the. On Tuesday, it drops Tuesday.

[Megan Ashley]

So by the time you see this, it's out. It's out. Go get it now. The link is going to be in the description. Y'all know, if you even go to my page right now, I'm telling you, I'm promoting it. It's going to be all over my page, all over my stories.

[Pre]

And read it with other people.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, that's good.

[Pre]

Read it with other Christians.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that.

[Pre]

A lot of. I think sometimes where we don't think we are effective because it can feel like a big weight. Like, this is a collective.

[Megan Ashley]

So buy. So no. Okay. So buy the book for you and then buy it for your homegirl. Buy it for your cousin. Buy it for your neighbor, for your bishop. Please get it for your bishop, because that's the one who needs it. He needs it. Get it for your pastor. Get it for your discipler.

[Pre]

That's right.

[Megan Ashley]

Get it for your church leader. Buy this book. If you have a small group, read it as together with a small group. This book is going to be so impactful to the health of the church, which is all of us. Not separate. It's all of us. So get this book. We are so appreciative of you. Pre. Thank you. Thank you for your. Yes. Thank you for your work. Thank you for your commitment to God first and to his church. And we just love you. Thank you. All right, guys, we'll see you next time. Hey, you guys, before you go, I just wanted to say how grateful I am for your love and support. If you've enjoyed this episode, please take a moment and share it with a friend or a family member. If you could do me one huge favor, head over to Apple Podcast and leave a five star rating and a heartfelt review. It helps others just like you discover the podcast. You guys, let's continue to spread the inspiration. For more about me and the podcast, visit ww themaganashley.com until next time, stay encouraged that you are so valued and so loved.