EP 51: Discerning Truth (Ft. Philip Anthony Mitchell)

Summary

Podcast Summary: EP 51: Discerning Truth (Ft. Philip Anthony Mitchell)

Title: In Totality with Megan Ashley
Host: Megan Ashley
Episode: EP 51: Discerning Truth
Guest: Philip Anthony Mitchell
Release Date: October 22, 2024

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Introduction

In this enriching episode of "In Totality," host Megan Ashley welcomes Philip Anthony Mitchell, the pastor of 2819 Church in Atlanta, Georgia, and her brother Lena Mitchell. Together, they delve deep into the critical topic of discerning truth in the Christian faith, exploring the challenges posed by modern interpretations of the gospel and the importance of maintaining authenticity in one's spiritual journey.

The Neoprosperity Gospel: A Hidden Threat

One of the central discussions revolves around the neoprosperity gospel, a modern iteration of the prosperity message that subtly undermines traditional Christian teachings. Lena articulates the dangers of this movement, emphasizing its deceptive allure:

Lena Mitchell [25:22]: "It's packaged...it's a self-help gospel that is neoprosperity that wraps itself around the God's word."

Philip adds to this concern, highlighting the enemy's cunning nature in presenting prosperity theology as an attractive alternative:

Philip Anthony Mitchell [25:18]: "I deeply appreciate about you is...I don't feel as crazy. It frustrates me that people can't discern for themselves the difference between what is God's truth and this...neoprosperity teaching."

They warn listeners about the human-centric focus of neoprosperity, which shifts the emphasis from God to the individual, potentially leading believers away from genuine faith:

Lena Mitchell [26:54]: "You are the hero of every text. You are the hero of every sermon... it's a self-help gospel."

Authenticity in Christian Leadership

Megan introduces Philip as a figure embodying authenticity and transparency in leadership. She praises his vulnerability and commitment to fostering genuine relationships within the church community:

Megan Ashley [02:00]: "Philip Anthony Mitchell... what this release, I don't even know if there's going to be tickets left... an opportunity to love on her."

Philip and Lena share their longstanding relationship, tracing back to their days in Bible College. Lena reflects on Megan's transformation and the profound influence her authenticity has had on their ministries:

Lena Mitchell [12:20]: "I always knew that you were a woman of influence... if God got His hand on you, He would use you very, very greatly."

The Reality of Suffering in the Christian Life

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the inevitability of suffering in the Christian walk. Both Lena and Philip emphasize that suffering is not a relic of the Old Testament but a present reality for believers, fostering deeper intimacy with Christ:

Lena Mitchell [46:14]: "Suffering is part of the Christian life... Jesus said those who live godly will suffer."

Philip shares his personal struggles with depression and bipolar disorder, underscoring the importance of understanding suffering through a biblical lens:

Philip Anthony Mitchell [56:52]: "So am I supposed to be happy that Caleb has this? Or am I supposed to learn and endure and find joy in God?"

Personal Testimonies: Megan Ashley's Struggles

Megan opens up about her son's diagnoses—Fragile X Syndrome and autism—and her battle with depression and suicidal ideation. Her transparency serves as a beacon of hope for listeners facing similar challenges:

Megan Ashley [55:37]: "I have a son... He has autism. When people tell me, 'Oh, the Lord doesn't want you to suffer,' I say, 'That's Old Testament.'"

Philip echoes these sentiments, sharing his own experiences with self-harm and the transformative power of surrendering to God's will:

Philip Anthony Mitchell [62:53]: "I talk to him every day. It's like breathing. It's just part of what I do."

Prayer: Intimacy Over Obligation

The discussion transitions to the role of prayer in cultivating a personal relationship with God. Lena and Philip advocate for viewing prayer as an ongoing, intimate conversation rather than a mere obligation:

Lena Mitchell [78:02]: "Don't see prayer as a religious duty. See prayer as access... an intimate, personal relationship with Him."

Philip reinforces this by emphasizing the necessity of acknowledging one's need for God to foster a meaningful prayer life:

Philip Anthony Mitchell [77:46]: "If you're lacking in your prayer life, you're not acknowledging the need that you have for Him."

Acts 242 Conference Announcement

Megan excitedly announces the upcoming Acts 242 Discipleship Conference in Atlanta, highlighting its mission to make disciples and glorify Jesus. She praises the impressive ticket sales and outlines the event's focus on authentic gospel proclamation:

Lena Mitchell [92:46]: "This is what we're about to do at this conference... the proclamation of the gospel, the exaltation of Christ."

Philip adds a personal touch, expressing gratitude for the supportive community that has bolstered his ministry:

Philip Anthony Mitchell [94:06]: "Thank you for being my brother, for being my pastor. Your yes is not in vain."

Journal Prompts: Reflect and Grow

Towards the episode's conclusion, Philip and Lena provide journal prompts to help listeners process the discussions and their personal spiritual journeys:

1. Evaluate Your Influences:
   What am I listening to? Am I hearing an authentic gospel or a self-help message?

2. Understand Your Suffering:
   How can I view my current struggles as opportunities to develop a deeper intimacy with Christ?

3. Assess Your Relationship with Christ:
   Where am I in my relationship with Him? Who surrounds me, and how can I strengthen my spiritual accountability?

Conclusion

The episode culminates in a heartfelt prayer led by Lena, invoking God's guidance and strength for the listeners and the global church. Megan and Philip express their gratitude for the supportive community and encourage continued engagement and sharing of the podcast to reach more hearts.

Notable Quotes:

• Lena Mitchell [26:54]: "It's a self-help gospel that is neoprosperity that wraps itself around the God's word."
• Philip Anthony Mitchell [56:52]: "Am I supposed to be happy that Caleb has this? Or am I supposed to learn and endure and find joy in God?"
• Lena Mitchell [78:02]: "See prayer as access... an intimate, personal relationship with Him."
• Philip Anthony Mitchell [77:46]: "If you're lacking in your prayer life, you're not acknowledging the need that you have for Him."

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Takeaways:

• Discernment is Crucial: Be vigilant against modern distortions of the gospel, such as the neoprosperity message.
• Authenticity Matters: Genuine relationships and transparent leadership are vital for a thriving Christian community.
• Embrace Suffering: Recognize that suffering is an integral part of the Christian journey, fostering deeper connections with Christ.
• Cultivate Intimate Prayer: View prayer as an ongoing, heartfelt conversation with God rather than a checkbox activity.
• Engage and Reflect: Utilize journal prompts to deepen your spiritual understanding and personal growth.

For those seeking to navigate the complexities of modern Christianity, this episode offers profound insights and heartfelt encouragement to live a life wholly devoted to God, embracing both the joys and the challenges that come with unwavering faith.

Transcript

[Megan Ashley]

Hey there, In Totality fam, we need your help. We're running a quick audience survey and we love to hear from you. Head over to Gum FM Totality. It's super simple and we want to keep bringing you content that you love. Let's be real, guys.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

You know it, we know it.

[Megan Ashley]

There are ads on our podcast and we want to make the experience better for you. We need to learn a little more about who's tuning in. By filling out this short survey, you'll be helping us improve the show. It's quick, easy, free, and it'll take you just two minutes. Your feedback makes a huge difference to us. So head over to Gum FM Totality.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That's G U M F M T.

[Megan Ashley]

O T A L I T Y. And let your voice be heard. Thanks for being such an amazing part of our community. Let's get back to the show with.

[Lena Mitchell]

The $5 meal deal at McDonald's. You pick a McDouble or a McChicken, then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. That's a lot of McDonald's for not a lot of money. Price and participation may vary for a limited time only.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

It frustrates me that people can't discern for themselves the difference between what is God's truth and this very packaged, well, packaged neoprosperity teaching that we're seeing.

[Lena Mitchell]

You have false prophets. I. I feel like calling some names, but I won't even go there. You have false prophets who are famous, right, In Atlanta preaching who.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Who.

[Lena Mitchell]

Who speak evil of our Lord. Who says things about our Lord. That is blasphemous, right? But for the sake of. For the sake of his fame and for the sake of their notoriety, we give them a pass. There is a gospel here that appeals to the humanistic side of human beings. It is prosperity. But it's not prosperity that has morphed into a neoprosperity gospel that puts you at the center of every text.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Hey, you guys. Welcome to Into a place where we celebrate authenticity and openness. We're here for those who are willing to explore, those who embrace imperfections, and for those with open hearts and minds. I'm excited to embark on this journey with you. And while I can't predict every twist and turn, I'm certain that God will be by our side with every step of obedience. Welcome to In Totality with me, your host, Megan Ashley. What's up, you guys? Welcome back to a brand new episode of In Totality. I'm your host, Megan Ashley. Listen before we get started because I got something real special for y'all before we get started. Do me a favor and hit the subscribe button right now. I want you to subscribe to this channel so you don't miss anything that we have going on within totality or with me. I don't want you to miss it. I don't want you to miss a video. I don't want you to miss an announcement. We got some real crazy special things coming up and I don't want you to. Don't want you to miss it. So hit subscribe. Make sure you like this video. Listen, what we're about to hear is going to be special and it needs to be spread. So I need you to like and share. Do it right now, okay? Like and share. Also, I don't know if you've heard but Acts 242, the discipleship conference is coming up. We only are just a few weeks away. If you haven't gotten your. I don't. Listen, this is pre recorded. By the time this release, I don't even know if there's going to be tickets left. So if there are tickets, you better run. Don't crawl, don't walk, I mean sprint to get the tickets. Don't. You don't want to miss out. You have Jackie Hill Perry and I, we're hosting a discipleship conference here in Atlanta, Georgia. We have Preston Perry, we have Dr. Eric Mason, we have Dr. Serita Lyons, and we have the Philip Anthony Mitchell of 2819. Church going to be in the building. It's going, going to be so impactful. Listen, y'all, listen. The mission is simple. It's simple, it's plain. Make disciples glorify Jesus. And that's what we're going to do. This conference is set apart. It's a remnant type of conference, y'all. It's going to be so impactful and I don't want you to miss it. So go get it now. Today, you guys, we have such an amazing guest. This is, this is like one of the most special people to me. It means so much to me. He not only is my pastor, but he is my brother. He's my big brother. I think he's my twin. I call him my twin because we are so similar in so many ways. Like we are always crying. We are very intense people. So give it up for the one, the only. This is the one y'all have been waiting for. So y'all better go crazy. Philip, Anthony, the Mitchell.

[Lena Mitchell]

What's going on, little sister?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I'm so happy you're here.

[Lena Mitchell]

I'm glad to be in totality. Yeah, yeah, we're on the famous couch.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Listen, do you know that I am harassed weekly? For months, I have been harassed weekly to get you on this podcast.

[Lena Mitchell]

Really?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I mean, every time I drop a podcast, wow. They're like, when is Pastor Phil going on? When is Pastor Phil coming on? When is Pastor Phil coming? So I'm so happy you're finally, man.

[Lena Mitchell]

Thank you for having me. I'm humble. Yo, shout out to everybody that watch in Totality.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Aw, thanks. So the pastor of 2819 Church here in Atlanta, Georgia, that is blowing up, taking the world by storm. How are you, sir?

[Lena Mitchell]

I am overwhelmed. I am deeply humbled by what the Lord is doing. I am fearful. I am fearful not in the sense of, like, scared, but in the sense of I want to be a good steward, what the Lord is doing. Right. I think at some point in time, it became very apparent to us, to my staff and I, my wife and I, that we are stewarding what feels like a move of God. Right. It feels like a real revival. Something I've been praying for for well over a decade. And I think with what is happening right now, everything around us right now is just blowing up. I mean, the church has outgrown our experience, has outgrown our staff capacities, outgrown our facilities capacity. And I think there is a temptation when God has given someone favor, whether it's a ministry or a person. When favor comes upon something, I think there's a temptation to find glory in that for yourself and for you to become prideful and arrogant. I think in full transparency, what's happening for me in the season is just the opposite. Right. I think for me, I am going deeper in repentance. I am going deeper in fear of ruining what God is doing. Well, let me not say ruin. I don't think I could ruin what God is doing, but put some dent, some damage on what God is doing, bring some disrepute to the name of the Lord. I am looking at my own sin. I'm looking at my own darkness and wringing out my heart before the Lord. I am. I am dealing with this thing of Lord. Am I stewarding this well? Am I leading well? Am I hearing you? Because I am acutely aware that I am a steward and not an owner.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

The church I led before 2019, for 10 years, Victory Church, I led that church like an owner, like a boss. I did what I wanted to do. And I think that's one of the reasons, the Lord buried that church. And so with 2019, it is something that Jesus created. It is a banner that Jesus created. The growth is something that Jesus is engineering. It is not because of a singular man. I am just a steward of what God is doing. I am playing a part in what God is doing. So I think for me, in this season, I am dealing with the dichotomy of being joyful and thankful on one end, but then being deeply, deeply mindful about what is going on in my heart and the sin that I'm dealing with, what I'm wringing out and making sure that I am following the Lord's will and not my own will. So it's a season of, like, joy and sorrow. It's blessing, but there is silent pain, there is growth, and then there is challenges. And so it's almost like, you know, when people think about Christianity, I know they think mountaintops and valleys, and to some degree that is true, but it's like a train, right? When you think about a train, a train runs on two rails. And I think I want to give off of people perspective, is like, those two rails, they run parallel with one another, I think. So often in our Christian life, we have things that run parallel. We have joys and sorrows that run parallel. We have highs and lows that run parallel. It's like at the time of this recording, you know, I just learned that somebody I love very deeply, you know, slipped into eternity this morning. And so the way over here, I'm shedding tears on the way over him crying on the way over here. And it's like I'm dealing with that death. At the same time, I'm getting ready to preach three gatherings for the very first time in a couple of days from now. So it's like these joys and sorrows are running parallel, you know, and so that's why I am right now in this season, like, I'm thankful for what Jesus is doing at the same time. Lord, am I. Am I stewarding this?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Right.

[Lena Mitchell]

That makes sense.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah. No, 100%. I think one thing that I deeply appreciate about you is when I hear you speak, like, even just casually, like, when. When you. When, you know, I reach out to you or you or checking in on me or whatever, when I hear you speak, like, I don't feel as crazy. Like, when I feel or like, when I say things, I think people perceive me as being very intense.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And do you ever have joy? Do you ever smile and all the things, but it's like I fear the Lord.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, you do. You do.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And I know what this is.

[Lena Mitchell]

You do.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And it. And it matters. And I don't want to play around with it.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And like, I was thinking about this today when I was. I was dropping my kids off at school today. I was dropping Jonah off. And as I'm going through that drop off line, I was thinking about, I was like, man, I think. I think that in order to have a level for me.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And I'm not saying this has to be for everybody, but for me, in order to have a level of reverence and dependency on the Lord, I have to experience some intense suffering.

[Lena Mitchell]

100%. Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And I want to get into that a little bit later, but before we get into that, because I got a critique recently from. It was like a rebuke.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

About how serious I am about my faith. But I want to get into that.

[Lena Mitchell]

I want to say something about that, too.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Okay, I'm going to bring it up. I'm going to bring it up. So remember it. Okay? But I want you guys to know that Philip Anthony Mitchell and I and Lena Mitchell did not meet.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Just. Just at the beginning of this year when they became my pastors. We met all the way in Ohio.

[Lena Mitchell]

Columbus.

[Megan Ashley]

In Columbus, Ohio.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And Bible College. Do you remember? In Bible college?

[Lena Mitchell]

I do. I do remember you in Bible college. You know, how real can we be, though?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

You could be real.

[Lena Mitchell]

Y. So I do remember meeting Megan at Bible college. So. Megan, Bible College. Megan was young. Can I be honest?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

You could tell? All right. Boy crazy.

[Lena Mitchell]

Boy crazy. Confused. Loss. Loss. But.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

But the Lord has done a work.

[Lena Mitchell]

But the Lord has done a work. But had potential, right?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I did.

[Lena Mitchell]

I remember you was on Remnant. Remember you left Remnant. Remember you did that? Had a lot of potential. And it was like, I even knew back then. I think Lena and I knew back then that there was something special about you because I could see that you had influence. I could see that, you know, sometimes you could see stuff in people that they can't see themselves in themselves. And I. I always knew that you was a woman of influence. I knew that something was on you. And I knew at some point in time, if God got his hand on you, he would use you very, very greatly. And so even when you met us at Bible college, Lena and I were.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That y'all. They were serious.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Listen, y'all think this is new. Philip Anthony Mitchell has been in serious since the day I met him when I was 18 years old. I'm 34 years old, y'all.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I met him when I was 18. And. And what I knew, first of all, I never really heard y'all talk. Yeah, I didn't hear y'all talk. Like, Lena was always smiling. She was so sweet. Like, so, so sweet. Always smiling. Phil looked angry all the time. All the time. Yeah, he looked serious. He didn't talk. I mean, he would just be. I remember one time walking in class. I don't know if it was chapel or what it was, because I don't have. I didn't have a lot of classes with y'all, but I don't know if it was chapel, but y'all were sitting on the right side. You know how the tables were real long. And we had that one center aisle.

[Lena Mitchell]

One center aisle.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

He was sitting. And you were sitting there. And Lena's just, like, smile. She's so joyful. Like, Lena is so joyful. She's just joyful. And Phil's just looking down like this. The whole. I was like, I am terrified of this man. I know he loves the Lord. He is so serious. So this ain't new for him.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah. But, you know, I knew you had potential. And you know what? And I think that's a good segue into, you know, you and I are wired the same in a lot of ways. People think you're overly intense. People call me. They say I'm too intense. I cry a lot. You cry a lot. Right. And this is not a knock on people who are not intense. There are believers out there who are not as intense. They're very joyful. Right. But I think that there is a. There's a category of believer, like yourself and like myself, who has had a theophany. And that is, we've had an Isaiah 6 encounter. And this. There was a moment in our life where we saw the Lord high and lifted up.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

We saw him for who he was. We saw the depth of our own sin. We recognized the depth of our former depravity and the depth of our rescue.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

We. We heard the council of heaven saying, who can we send? And we. We responded to that voice saying, lord, send me.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And. And what comes after that is a seriousness of calling. It is. It is Isaiah preaching messages of woe. It is Isaiah preaching messages of judgment and even asking the Lord, how long will I do this? You will do this until everything is laid bare. Until I've brought judgment on the land. You will do this until I've chopped the stump down and nothing remains except the remnant that only remains. There are people like you, people who are like me, who a lot of people don't understand that. We see the bigger picture. We are seeing our life right now through the lens of eternity. We understand that there is a common judgment. I say it in our church all the time. That time is running out. I think there's too many believers who don't have the wisdom of David, say, lord, teach us to number our days. They think that we have all this time left. And so for them, Christianity is handcuffed to a day. It's a Sunday morning service. It's them playing around. Think you have all this time in the world to get right with the Lord there for the unbeliever and then for the believer who see this whole thing as just a joke, it's only a service, right? But then you have those of us who see everything through the lens of there is a judgment coming. Time is running out. Eternity is. Is looming for us. Our Savior is about to return. He's given us an assignment not to just have services, right? He's given us an assignment to spread this gospel, to multiply disciples, to do Acts 242 conference, right? Shout out. You need to get your tickets for Acts 2:42 to multiply this up. And if we're not about that business, then what are we really doing, right?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

For sure.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yesterday. Yesterday I was. I was in my prayer room and I saw something on Tick Tock. This preacher's talking all this nonsense on Tick Tock. And I just wept, right? Like I'm watching all, especially black people, makes me so angry. This man is preaching nonsense. It's all this hoopla, it's all of this entertainment. And I'm watching this room of black people sell. And I'm thinking to myself, like, there's nothing wrong with joy, right? But you're preaching nonsense. And because the people in the room don't have enough word in them, they can't discern that this is nonsense. So they are celebrating heretical doctrine. They're celebrating nonsense. And I'm watching this and I'm thinking to myself, this is America, right? This is Western Christianity. And so I burst into tears. I pushed back from my table, I burst into tears and I said to myself, I said, lord, what are we doing? Right? Like, yeah, what are we really doing right now in the west, in the black context? Like, what are we really doing? And so I think about that. And so when people will look at a Megan Ashley and think, you know what I'm saying? She's weird, she cries too much, she's too intense. I would look at somebody and say, maybe that's normal. Yeah, maybe that's what Jesus wants us to be. He wants us to shed his tears. He wants us to feel his grief. He wants us to feel his love. He want. I mean, he. I mean, Paul writes to the church in Thessalonica, right? I mean, well, not. Well, Paul writes the church, but. But Jesus sends a letter to a church and he says to them, in Revelation, chapter one, two and three, he says to them, he said, I'd rather you be hot or cold, right? But if you look warm, I'll spit you out of my mouth. And so I think that there is a lukewarm American Christianity that we have deemed as normal.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

When Jesus said, I would rather you be on fire, I would rather you be like a Megan Ashley. Or rather you be cold. And by cold, he doesn't mean dead. He means, I would rather you be refreshing. So a lot of people, they don't understand that passage correctly, right?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Because I don't think I. I don't think I.

[Lena Mitchell]

So when Jesus sends this letter through John, he sends this letter to a church, right? Laodicea, that is situated in a place where they have no natural water.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah, I remember preaching this.

[Lena Mitchell]

They have no natural water. And so to the north of them, about 10 miles, and I've been there, is a city called Hieropolis where they have natural hot springs. Cleopatra had a pool there. Natural hot water. So what the people of Laodicea did, they built pipes from Hieropolis to Laodicea to bring hot water to the city. By the time that hot water traveled to Laodicea, it came through those pipes. It was full of sediments and it was lukewarm. So if you drank the water, it will make you vomit. But then to the east of them is the city of Colossae. Colossi had natural cold springs, fresh water. That warm water was medicinal, that cold water was refreshing. So they built pipes from Colossi to Laodicea. So by the time the water travels through the pipes of Laodicea, it gets there. You drink it, it's lukewarm, and it'll make you vomit. So when Jesus said, I'd rather you be hot and cold, he's using language to on the cities that's around Laodicea. I rather you be hot. That is, be medicinal. Bring healing. Let your fire be transforming for the people who are connected to your ministry. Or, I'd rather you be cold like the water at Colossia. That I'd rather you be refreshing. And when people Come around you. When they hear in totality, when they come to 2019, they say, man, that was refreshing. That was new. Jesus said, I'd rather you be refreshing, or I'd rather you be hot. But if you in the middle, if you look warm, if you look warm and throwing rocks at a Megan Ashley, if you look warm, you throwing rocks at a Philip Anthony Mitchell, you're the person Jesus said, I will spit you out of my mouth. You see what I'm saying? The Lord would rather us be intense or rather us be refreshed. Like, I think my wife is refreshed.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

She sure is.

[Lena Mitchell]

Like, Lena's not intense like me. Right.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

She is just the most joyous person.

[Lena Mitchell]

She is just full of light. So you come around her, you feel refreshed. You come around, around me, you're gonna feel some fire, you're gonna feel some heat. You come around Omega Ashley, you're gonna feel some heat. So I think the Lord would rather us be in one of those two camps, but not the camp that's in the middle. And there's too many believers right now all across this country that have settled for a Christianity that is lukewarm, a Christianity that is offensive to the Lord. You see what I'm saying? And what they do is instead of coming on our side or Lena side, you just throw stones at the people who are intense.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Stay in the middle and throw stones.

[Lena Mitchell]

You stay in the middle and just throw stones.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I want to ask you about. Because we live in a very particular city.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Philip Anthony Vegeta's got stressed. He said, God, do. We can't stand it here. I want to go to Minnesota. Is it normal there, y'all? Atlanta, Atlanta. Atlanta is. And no, I'm from Ohio. I've never lived anywhere else. I've. I've only lived in Ohio, and then I moved here in 2020, and the Lord brought me here. You know, I thought he brought me here for one reason and obviously not both. It just brought me in for something else. But I've. Being in Atlanta, okay, when I first moved, I experienced one thing. Now I'm being fully submitted and surrendered to Christ. I'm experiencing Atlanta in a different way. Like, I'm now feeling the spiritual intensity of where we live.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And there is a particular principality. There is in Atlanta and in, especially in the Christian context and especially in the, in the churches here in Atlanta. And we are seeing this prosperity gospel that, that is not new because prosperity has been preached for a long time.

[Lena Mitchell]

There's a neoprosperity gospel right now and it's morphed into something else.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah. Tell us about the dangers of this neoprosperity gospel.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And, and what makes it. Because what I think is interesting about it is that it's so like the enemy is so tricky.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Because it looks good, it sounds good.

[Lena Mitchell]

It's packaged.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Well, it's packaged. I mean it's impeccably packet. I mean it's like so nice.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

But being in Christ, coming and like fully surrendering my life and literally shout out to Jackie because she is the one who really like pushed me to know God's word blessing to she, I mean an extreme blessing to me because she taught me how to discern through God's word. And so I, the people that I used to listen to, ville, I can't stomach to listen to them anymore.

[Lena Mitchell]

I, I, I'm not surprised.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I cannot stomach it.

[Lena Mitchell]

I'm not surprised.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

So like when you're saying you're at your debt, you see something, you're at your desk weeping. This was, that was me two weeks ago. When I'm looking at Tik Tok and people I'm hearing about, oh know it's your season, it's your time. Don't worry about them. If they not gonna bless you, then forget them. You need to bless yourself like and, or arguing or smite. It's just, it's intense. And I started same as you. I was crying all day.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Praying all day, grieved all day. And I, it, it frustrates me that people can't discern for themselves the difference between what is God's truth and this very packaged, well, packaged neoprosperity teaching that we're seeing. Especially Here in our city.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, I think. I think. I think Atlanta. So I wanted to go to the Northeast to pastor a church, right? So when you and I left Bible College, you know, I had this list of churches, list of cities I'm praying over. And because I'm from New York, I wanted to go to a place where the gospel is not assumed. And when I say the gospel is not assumed in the Bible Belt, everybody thinks they're Christian. So the gospels assume. If he was raised in a Christian church or you've come out of Christian home, everybody assumed. But in Northeast, it's not like that. Like, there's no faking, right? People know who's godly, who's not, and for the most part, people not thinking about God in the Northeast. So I'm trying to go to New York. I'm trying to go to Philly, I'm trying to go to D.C. i'm trying to go all these places. And God sends my wife and I here to Atlanta. So when we left Bible college, we leave begrudgingly. I come to Atlanta grudging, like, this is not where I want to be. I do not want to be in a place. I don't like to hear heat. And I don't want to be in a place like Word. I don't like the heat. Like, I like cold weather. And I don't want to be in a place where the gospels assume. When Lena and I first got here, I'll never forget, we went to Lennox Mall our first weekend here on a Saturday. Big mistake, right?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Jesus, Right?

[Lena Mitchell]

So big mistake. So we go to Lennox Mall on a Saturday and we're walking through Lennox Mall and Lena and I see something we had never seen before. And if you. If you've been in Lennox Mall, you. You probably know where I'm going with this, right? And like, I don't care. So we're not gonna play around right now. So there is an agenda in our country that is Antichrist. It hides behind the guise of love. And I could be who I want and you could do what you want. But there is a judgment coming and we all gonna have to pay the price for the decisions we're making right now. So there is a. There is a demonic agenda hiding behind the guise of love that is very pervasive in our city. Let's just keep it real. I already know you're probably going to get hate speech for this and they're going to throw dm. But we don't care though, right? So. And so Lena and I go to Lenox Mall. Mall. And we're walking through the mall, and we sit down on a bench and we just cry, right? And I'll never forget, we're weeping. It's our first week in Atlanta. And as I'm sitting there, the Lord speaks to me. I hear the Lord say to me so clearly in my heart, this city is massed in religion and it is steeped in perversion. I will never forget those words. And since we've been here 2010, in the 14 years we've been here, that has come to be exactly what the Lord told me. I've come to realize that this city in Atlanta is a hyper religious city. So there is a mask of veneer of religion, but what's behind that veneer is perversion. There is perversion in the pulpit, perversion in the pew. You know, there's perversion in the ecclesiology of what's going on in Atlanta. It is hyper perverted. I mean, you have men who are married to men and have churches in Atlanta. You have. You have people who promote alternate agendas that are antichrist and are preaching. You have false prophets. I feel like calling some names, but I won't even go there. You have false prophets who are famous, right? In Atlanta preaching who, who. Who speak evil of our Lord, who says things about our Lord. That is blasphemous, right? But for the sake of. For the sake of his fame and for the sake of. Of their notoriety, we give them a pass. Like you. There's a difference between a mistake and iniquity, right? Yeah, we make mistakes, but iniquity is when you love your sin. And every time we pop up like you, a serial adulterer, you, you, you. You have all these. So anyway, so you have all these false prophets in our city. You have people with an ulterior motive in our city have also. Our city has a veneer of religion. But behind that veneer, it is very, very perverted all across the city and then Atlanta, because Atlanta is a hub for. It's a hub for. It's like a black Mecca, right? So because it's a hub for the entrepreneur and for the business professional and for all these Fortune 500 companies, because it's an international and global city, right? There is a gospel here that appeals to the humanistic side of human beings. It is prosperity, but it's not prosperity that has more into a neoprosperity gospel that puts you at the center of every text. You are the hero of every text. You are the hero of every sermon. You are the hero of every Sunday morning proclamation. And so instead of just telling people straight out, come to Christ, he's going to give you a house in a car. Now it's like now it's, the Lord exists for you and, and the Lord is here to fulfill your vision board and, and everything is going to. It's, it's a self help gospel that is, it is neoprosperity that wraps itself around the God's watches. Can we be honest around, around your purpose, your desire, your will, what you want to do, your vision board and all of the preaching is to facilitate what you want to do. That is a new version of the prosperity gospel that I think is more dangerous because it's, it's cancerous and it's undetected it. So it sits just under the surface of our senses.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And we sit back in these churches and we eat that up. And so we leave these churches. Thinking about my own personal will and agenda and how I can twist God's arm to support that. We're not leaving these churches feeling convicted over our sin. Feeling like how am I being a better steward? How am I wringing out the sin of my own heart? How am I serving God? What is God's mission and how does my life flow into that mission if my life along with your life are just tributaries? How are these tributaries, men, women, flowing into the river of the Great Commission and what God has called us to do? But no, that's not. Our preaching is not preparing us for that. It's not preparing us to suffer. Well, it's not preparing us to sacrifice. It's not preparing us, can I go deeper for eternity? I'm going to say something right here. Okay. Right here in totality. I'm telling you right now, everybody watching this right now, there are some, there are some dangerous times coming for America. America is about to be Molly Whopped. And I am not sure if a lot of these brothers and sisters who are sitting in churches that stroke their ego and teaches them a humanistic gospel, are they going to have the type of Christianity and are they going to have enough word in them to withstand what's coming to this country? Listen, I said it right here in totality. There is some very dark times coming to this nation. I feel like God has shown me this in my prayer time. I've seen this prophetically. I feel like there is a chorus of prophetic voices that are giving warnings to this nation. And my whole thing is if that word is not in you, if you don't have a prayer life. If you don't have genuine community, if you don't understand that, that this is not utopia, that utopia is the next life, and this life is a life of service. If you don't understand orthodox biblical Christianity, and if you don't understand where God is taking us, if you don't understand how God uses persecution to purify, then they're going to be a lot of believers watch. They're going to be a part of the apostasy. They're going to be a part of people who said, I tried Jesus.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

They're fall.

[Lena Mitchell]

And they're going to fall away because they're not being prepared for what's coming and they're not being. Being prepared for Christ. It's almost like in a lot of these churches. And I hate to be throwing shade, right. But not only in Atlanta, but across the country, there is a. There is a pervasive proclamation of a gospel that is disconnected from the Christ and orthodox Christianity that people in our generation are buying into. And then there's no reason why they are malnourished spiritually, why their hearts are sick, why they can't endure hardship, why they can't suffer well while they feel like Christianity is not working for them. Well, how could it work for you when you don't read so you don't know you're being told a lie? And the more truth you know, the easier it is to discern a lie. So this is what's happening in Atlanta.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yep.

[Lena Mitchell]

This is what's happening in our country. And I'm just so thankful that the Lord has brought me out of all of that and brought you out of all of that.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Thank you.

[Lena Mitchell]

And that we on the other side of the fence where we want truth.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

You see what I'm saying?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah. I want to talk about before I.

[Lena Mitchell]

They're not gonna like me on this podcast.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

They're gonna love you. No, they not gonna love you. I Now, the other people that they like it, it goes out to the world and then, you know, but they're gonna love you there.

[Megan Ashley]

I want to.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Before I. Because I do want to talk deeply about suffering. I have questions about that and I want to talk to you that about that. But I want. When I first came to 28, 19 and I was in an interesting season, so, yeah, I, I came to the church to visit and it was Access. So the first time I came was a Thursday prayer night. Night. Prayer night at Access. And it was Jay, Jordan and I and the boys and my, My, My three sons. And I'm like, we're going to. I was like, I don't care. I don't care what we're doing. We're going to church. Church on. On Thursday. And so we came, and it was interesting because I. I don't know if I had. I don't know if I knew what to expect. So we. We pull up in the line. The drop. Like, the cars are down the street. And so we pull up thinking, like, oh, yeah, we'll, like, we'll pull up 10 minutes before. We'll be fine.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

So I'm like, oh, man. Like, I don't know if we're gonna get a seat. So I pull up to the front, and I drop them off, and I go find parking. But it takes me 20 minutes from the time I drop them off to the time I can, like, go and park my car and get into the church. It's 20 minutes.

[Lena Mitchell]

Wow.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I walk in and I got a hoodie on. Like, I'm super low key. I have a hoodie on. And it's like, if y'all ever been to 2819. It's dark. It's dark in there.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

You cannot. Not really see, like, a whole lot in front of you. And so I'm looking for the kids. I'm looking for Jay and Jordan. I'm like, where are they? Where are they? And I think Jordan sent me a text, and she told me that they were on the other side of. Of the. Of the tabernacle or the building. Like on, you know, where the church is. They go on the other side. So I go in and I'm looking down at the floor because I don't want to trip.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That is, like, my biggest embarrassment is to fall in front of people. It's like a big fear of mine. So I'm, like, looking at the floor because I'm like, if I don't look at my feet, I'm going to fall. So I'm walking and I'm. I'm just walking and looking down. I happen to look up.

[Lena Mitchell]

I remember this.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And Lena is coming on my left side.

[Lena Mitchell]

I remember this.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And mind you, I have not seen or talked to you guys in Bible college.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah. Over a decade.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Over a decade. Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

I remember this, right?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

So I look up, and Lena just so happens Lee, right? To be. Obviously, by God's divine timing, she's walking on my left side. And I look up and I see her, and I go, lena. And I like. I kind of, like, grab her arm and I'm like, lena. And she hugs me Remember? And embraced me and it. And immediately, like, my eyes are watering. She hugs me, and she's just hugging me. And then this is the crazy part. She pushes back and goes, megan. So she hugs me as if she has known me forever and didn't even know it was me.

[Lena Mitchell]

That's powerful. Right.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Which is a whole sermon and thing in and of itself. But it spoke so much to me of her character and her heart because she. Y'all, I've grown up in church. First ladies are not like that.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah. Lena's the epitome of love.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Lena is different. Yeah, she's different. So she hugs me and she pushes back and goes, megan.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And she starts weeping and praying over me with so much like. I mean, it was the most fervent, intense prayer. And she starts to speak over me. Mind you, I have not talked to them in over a decade. She starts saying things and speaking over me and praying for me and saying things that no one knew.

[Lena Mitchell]

Do you know why she wept over you like that? Oh, tell me she wept over you like that. Because I think we had just heard a little bit.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

That you were going through a difficult season because we knew you, we loved you, and we were praying. This is a true story. We actually got down on our knees and prayed like, lord, wherever. Wherever Megan is, wherever she's displaced at right now, bring her to 2019. Just give us an opportunity to love on her, because we know you. And so when she. She told me afterwards, when she saw you on that fire lane and she realized it was you, that's why she just burst into. Because it was God answering our prayers. That while you were displaced, that God would send you to our church just so that we personally, Lena and I could just love on you. Like, we didn't want nothing from you, but to just love on you. So when she saw you, it was like the Lord answered our prayers, and that's why she just burst into tears like that. It's like. Like a genuine love is why she did that.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

It was. It was crazy because as she was praying for me, I mean, my heart was in a lot of pain.

[Lena Mitchell]

I know.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And you know that. Like, you know what I was going through.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And. And so she's praying for me, and I could cry thinking about it, but the things that she said to me, they were, like, very specific things. And then she goes and says. She goes. She tells whoever's around her, she says, go get Phil. Go get Phil. Because you were at the front praying. Yeah, because we're in access. So You're. I know you're up in the front frame.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And. And she says, go get Phil. Go get Phil. And I'm weeping in her arms, and she's still praying. And then she goes. All of a sudden, I hear her say, babe, it's Megan. Yeah, it's Megan.

[Lena Mitchell]

I remember.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And you started praying for me. And you said, yeah, verbatim. Everything that she said, verbatim. I mean, verbatim. And you were nowhere around when she prayed for me. And you prayed for me verbatim. What she said. And this was the thing. This is as intense and needed as it was. It changed my life in a really specific way because I've never had people care about me that were in leadership like that. I've never experienced, like, genuine care in that way from pastors.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah. Yeah. And, like, even right now, I'm emotional thinking about it because, like, we were so hurt to hear what you had gone through. And it's like nobody knew the details, right? Like, Leonard Na didn't know no details. We just knew that, you know, something you was built with somebody else had just come to an end.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Two things that I built with two different people.

[Lena Mitchell]

Two different people had come to end both of them. Right. And I think Felina and I, knowing you from Bible college as a teenager, I think we felt your pain deeply. Right? Like, man, I'm all messed up right now on the joint, right? I think when she and I got down to pray for you, I think, like, when I pray, I feel deeply the pains of others. It's the same way I study. When I study, it's not just a text. I feel what Jesus was going through, what a person was going through. And so I think when Lena and I heard whispers of both, you know, how real can we be here? You can be real, you know, of, you know, the divorce and the podcast that come to an end, we just could feel the depth of youf pain. And so we're praying for you with this. With this depth. Like, lord, whatever we can do to love on our sister to help her, just sent her here. And so when they came and got me, said, hey, Ms. Lena's looking for you. And I get back there and I see you, man, I just burst into tears because I'm like, lord, you heard our prayers. You sent. You sent her here. And I remember just wrapping my arms around you and just praying for you, and I could feel the pain of what you were going through. I could feel the betrayal of what you had gone through. I could feel the loss, the devastation you're going through. At the same time, I could feel the love of Jesus for you in that moment. Right. It's kind of like I want you to know in this moment. Right. Like you are loved.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Right.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And all I wanted you to feel in that moment, all of these arms that were holding you were like the arms of Jesus saying, my daughter, I see you and I love you. And so for me, it was like this depth of joy that the Lord heard my prayer, but then to an opportunity to just extend love to you in a season where I felt like you just needed to know that you are not abandoned.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

You know what I'm saying? That for me, was a very, very powerful, powerful thing is. Because it's like. It's like. It's almost like that prodigal coming home. Although you. You're not a prodigal sense, but it was like specifically pleading with the Lord to bring this one person to us so we could just care for her.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And. And seeing that happened, man, January. That happened to Access in January, I remember.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And I DM'd you after that to say, like, thank you. And I realized that when I was going through all this stuff, you had already DM'd me. The month that I had gone through this biggest transition of my life, which was almost a year. It was May. You had DM'd me that I was, you know, like, you were just like, we see you. We love you. Like, if you need any, like, you had had reached out to me, and I didn't even know that. So when I went to go DMU to say thank you for just praying and all the things you. I had saw that you had already, like, had been looking out for me even almost a year before.

[Lena Mitchell]

And I feel like. And that's divine, right?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

You know what I'm saying? Because as when you was. When you had the other show is when I. When I reached out to you and said, I see what the Lord is trying to do in your life, and I just want you to know we love you, you know? And I think also, too, this is. Is. This is. I feel like a good moment to talk about suffering because you. You suffered.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah. Can I also say how real it was, though?

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Because after they pray for me, all they left me on the floor.

[Lena Mitchell]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I got kicked, stepped on.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, we left you.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That's how, you know they real. They was like, we ain't about to make no show of this.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, we left.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

We're gonna pray for you. And we're gonna leave you here.

[Lena Mitchell]

Some intercessors, I said, y'all just draw, put a circle around a prayer and we just left you. Right. Because you know, there's a point, point where I think we overdo it and you, a person needs to feel Jesus after that. But I think what I saw in this last season of your life, I think it's good for us to talk about this is about the reality of Christian suffering. Right. And I think that in the neo prosperity gospel, we don't like to preach suffering because we want people to feel happy and emotionally charged. But the truth is what you just come through that season, you just come through and are rebounding from is a season of suffering. It's something that God allowed in your life to bring you to a new season. And I think, I think it's important for us to mention that Christian suffering is not only part of the Christian life. Jesus said those who live godly will suffer. And so that we understand biblically that suffering is part of the Christian life. But I think a problem with this topic about suffering is that we preach it in such a way, like escapism, we, we talk about suffering as something to escape, but not something to lean into.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

So I feel like it's important for people who are watching right now to understand, number one, we should not be taken aback by suffering. In fact, James writes, James, the very first letter ever written to the New Testament church, the very first letter ever went to church was James. He said, brothers counted all joy. When you suffer trials of various kinds, there is something that suffering produces. A couple things I think is very important. Number one, we have to see suffering as part of the Christian life and accept it as part of the Christian life. The other thing too, we have to see suffering as suffering is it allows us to identify more with our Savior. In suffering, we identify with Christ, we identify with his sufferings, we identify with his lowliness, his betrayals. We identify with the things that he went through. And so there's a type, type of suffering that helps us to. Like there's a type of suffering. Let's just, let's just make a quick disclaimer. There's a type of suffering that's self inflicted because you're doing foolishness. That's not what we're talking about.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Correct?

[Lena Mitchell]

Right. And so there's a type of suffering that is born out of sin and born out of you making bad decisions. I'm not, I'm talking about suffering that God allows. It is, it is part of the Christian life. It allows us to identify more deeply with Christ. And then it produces in us character greater intimacy with the Lord. And sometimes suffering has the ability to wring out of us things that God wants to take out of us. It's almost like people will pray for things like, I want to be more wise or I want to be more patient. And you're praying for these things because the Lord's just going to hit you with a wand and you're going to be patient and he's going to hit you with a wand. No, you want to be wise. He's going to put you in circumstances to teach you how to make good decisions. You want to be patient. He's going to put you in circumstances where you got to deal with difficult people. You want to be strong. Oh, he's going to make you go through some stuff that teach you how to come out on the other side. So when I look at a Megan Asher, I can say to you that you are strong. Like you are a strong woman of God. Not because I'm saying that, but because of things that you have survived and been through. And what suffering has produced in you is a type of strength, a type of intimacy, a type of dependency upon God that some of us otherwise would not have if the Lord did not allow us to go through some suffering. Right.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yep.

[Lena Mitchell]

Same thing with me. My whole Christian walk, this pastoral walk, there has been moments of joy, but most of it has been seasons of pain and difficulty and suffering. I've wanted to quit more times than I can count. I've shed more tears than buckets can hold. And I've probably had more nights of tears than more nights of joy. And somebody will say, well, I don't want. I don't want your ministry. If that's the case that I don't want that, well, fine, don't have that. But let me tell you what I have as a result of it. I have a deep, intimate, personal relationship with the Lord. Lord. I have a deep identification with Christ. I have a deep sense of reality. Yeah, I have a strength, a fortitude. I feel like when I look at the scars from the past has given me a fortitude to walk through things that's coming in the present, things now and for the future. There is something that the Lord has done in my character that good times could not produce. And so I think that there is a beauty and suffering of what the Lord brings out of it. And I think when we go through. So, like in our church, we say, live well, suffer well, come out on the Other side. I think when we allow ourselves to suffer and come out on the other side, what the Lord does is he produces a better version of us.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

As we come out of suffering, it's just, don't die in the middle of suffering. Come out on the other side. That's what you're doing right here. You've come out on the other side.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Praise God. Because listen, I didn't know if I was going to come out.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, but you made it out though.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Still making it out. What do you say to people who, because I told you it kind of got a little rebuke not, not that long ago where someone was just like, you know, you're in Christ, you got the victory. Suffering is Old Testament. That's not, that's not what God wants for you. For you is to suffer. And I, and I'm like, and this. And listen, had I not known God's word.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I would have fell trapped in that. But I know that there is so much suffering. Neoprosperity that is in the New Testament. Stephen, Jesus suffered, Stephen suffered, Peter suffered, Paul suffered. Like there's so much suffering.

[Lena Mitchell]

Let's stay right there. Paul, when, when, when the Lord saves Paul from his former life, you know what he says about him? He says, this man right here, I've chosen this man right here. Watch and see how much he will have to suffer for my name's sake. And so for a person to tell you, you know, suffering is Old Testament, suffers that New Testament, then what you do is you make your ignorance palpable. You tell us you have not read the New Testament. You tell us you have not read the Word. What you tell me is you've been listening to self help preaching and you've been listening to neo prosperity Gospel, but you don't know that Bible because all throughout the scriptures, the men and women of God, they have suffered. Paul suffered. Jesus, matter of fact, Jesus said, for the joy set before him.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah, right.

[Lena Mitchell]

For the joy set before him. He endured the cross, the worst form of suffering that any one of us can imagine. For the joy set before him. Right. And what was on the other side of that cross was glory.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Was a throne. Right. Was his name being highly exalted. All right, so suffering is part of the Christian life. And if we listen to preachers or if we just take time to read the Word, we will see that the Lord produces beautiful things in us on the other side of suffering. No, suffering is not something we escape. Suffering is something we lean into and come out on the other side I.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Think what people don't understand when they talk about suffering when it comes to me.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Week.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That's right.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Because I don't use it to platform myself. Yeah, right. Is that two things. One, I have a child that by doctor's stance, he has two incurable diagnoses. He has fragile X syndrome, which is a genetic disorder. Which means that when the Lord placed Caleb in my womb, he had this genetic disorder. Jesus, his X chromosome, he. He has a dysfunction in his X chromosome that doesn't produce or doesn't allow him to have the protein that produces his brain development. He was given to me that way. Right. So the Lord allow, like the Lord placed him in my womb this way. He has autism. Right. Two of these things. There's no cure for these things. So when people tell me, oh, the Lord doesn't want you to suffer. Why would he? Well, you know, that's Old Testament. Why would God. So am I supposed to be happy that Caleb has this? Or am I supposed to learn and to endure and find joy in God to know that? Come on, for a little while, Caleb will be like this.

[Lena Mitchell]

For a little while.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

For a little while, he will be like this. But in eternity, in eternity, he'll be perfect. He'll be whether he talks on this side of heaven or not.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, if I don't know the scriptures, how can I. How can I endure doctors telling me that your son may never talk, he may never graduate, he may never have friends, he may never. Like, how can I go through life with joy if I Don't have Christ.

[Lena Mitchell]

You know, if, and if you was not a woman of the word, you could not talk like this right now.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Do you see what I'm saying?

[Lena Mitchell]

I'm saying if you, if you was not a woman of the word, you know, I didn't know the other part about your son's diagnosis. I know about autism, and you know, my heart, my heart is broken, the headache. But at the same time, here is where biblical Christianity steps in, right? People say to you, oh, Megan, Ashley, you shouldn't be talking about suffering. You shouldn't be suffering as Old Testament, but if you did not know the scriptures for yourself, you would not be able to talk like that. Right? And this is, I don't know if you pick up on this, but this is one of the reasons, like when I preach about healing in our church, I don't let that just terminate on the life we're living right now. Yeah, like for example, for example, like I have a damaged eardrum, right? I have an auditory ish damage. My left eardrum was damaged by auditory injury. And so I have tinnitus very badly. And so for me, like, you hear that silence, but for me it's never silent. There's always a high loud frequency noise ringing in my left ear. And when I first got that injury, I was, was, I was suicidal. This happened back in 2022. I was suicidal. And I had to retrain myself how to read with that injury, how to study with that injury, how to prepare sermons with that injury, and how to not be afraid of the quiet with the injury. So I sleep with this little ambient noise machine next to my bed, and without it, I wrestle all night because that noise is so loud. I pray for healing and it's not come in this life, but I preach healing that it does not terminate now. So I said, like your son, my heir, my father who is above me, all of us who are in Christ will be healed. Whether that healing comes now or that healing comes eternity, we will be healed. Our suffering will give way to joy. Whether that comes now or that comes in eternity. But it will. But if we don't have a biblical gospel that teaches us that eternity is the end goal, like we have eternity now in Christ, but will have its fulfillment when we, when we transition from this life. If we don't teach people that, then watch. They put all their hope in right now and then. So because all your hope is in right now, you can't handle the weight of the falling world that we live in. We live in a fallen world. Where we have to deal with traumas, trials, tribulation, death, sickness and disease. And if you have not been taught a biblical gospel that causes you to look beyond this life towards eternity, then the things of this life will be crushing to you. They will be crushing to you. You won't have the spiritual strength and stamina to look like in my suffering. This is. This may sound really weird, right? And I know people think I'm weird. They call me weird. Yo, I. I could be driving Megan, or just walking in trash can down my driveway and I look at the clouds and I could be going through something very difficult. Like I'm going through difficult stuff right now. And I think to myself, lord, one day I will be with you beyond those clouds. One day you're going to put a crown on my head that I'm going to lay down at your feet. One day I will see my Father again. One day I will hear perfectly again. One day I will not have to deal with the trials. And one day I will go beyond those clouds and I will be with you in glory. And I actually look forward to the day when I see my Savior face to face. And it's. It's that thought that there is a utopia that he's going to create for you and I beyond those clouds that gives me a type of strength that kind of says like what Paul said.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

For the suffering of this present time doesn't compare. It doesn't even compare to the glory we're going to receive. Right. And as you and I are talking about this right now, there are people going to listen to this. I think this is boring. This. This is whack. This is like. Because you love neoprosperity gospel. But now, my friend, this is not boring. This is not whack, my friend. This is called orthodox Christianity. This is called biblical gospel. This is called the reality of the life that we are living. This is called what Jesus taught us. This is called what Jesus prepared us for. This is called come over unto this side.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And feel the strength that a Megan has looking at your son and knowing that you're going to love him.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

While you're suffering well. And knowing that he will be fully healed either in this life or the next.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And. And not only just the suffering that I'm experiencing there. Right. Or what feels like it used to feel more like suffering.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

But now I experience so much joy with Caleb. He teaches me so much. He's the most beautiful human I have ever experienced in my life. And he's so full of Joy. I love that he's so sweet. He's so compassionate. He is just sweet. He's like a smiley kid. Like, he's just so full of joy. He's just the best. But I also. One thing that I've experienced in my personal life, and I know that you've talked about battling suicide and battling things like that. I've, I've battled that since I was a teenager. I was suicidal as a teenager. I was, I self harmed all the way up until 2023.

[Lena Mitchell]

So even while you was at Bible college?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Oh yeah. I was self harm all the things. And I didn't know until 2019 that I had been battling and suffering from bipolar depression, which is a chemical disorder. Like you have a chemical imbalance in your brain.

[Lena Mitchell]

Well, we need to talk about this right now.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I didn't know that. I didn't know that until 2019. So it made so much sense of why I experienced, experienced so much other sufferings in my life.

[Lena Mitchell]

That's crazy that you're telling me this.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

But I was telling Jackie, I said.

[Lena Mitchell]

Jackie, that's crazy that you're telling me this.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I told Jackie, I said, I don't think people understand that although I have been able to not succumb to temptations of taking my life. Like I really do believe the Lord delivered me from suicidal ideations. Like, I don't, I don't, I don't just just meditate on it as much as I used to. Nor do I fall into wanting to self harm or any of those things. Like I really do believe the Lord has delivered me in a way from that.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

But I told her, I was like, what, what people don't really understand is that the temptation to not live here had never went away. Like I, there's still this thing in me that I would rather not.

[Lena Mitchell]

Right. Right.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Live here. But because I know his word.

[Lena Mitchell]

Come on.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I understand that I don't get to decide.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

When my life ends.

[Lena Mitchell]

That's powerful.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

He gets to decide because he's Lord, right?

[Lena Mitchell]

I never knew this about you.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yo, you know what's crazy about that? What's crazy about that is because I've been suicidal multiple times and I have struggled with depression for a larger part of my, my whole life. A lot of people don't notice. I was on medication for depression, dealing with suicidal thoughts. And it's crazy, man, because I'm pastoring, dealing with depression. Right. This is like, this was like in a past season. I'm passing, dealing with depression. I'm seeing a Therapist. Twice a month, I'm sitting on a couch like this twice a month, and I'm taking medication. And I don't know, like, you younger than me, so I don't know if you remember, like, you remember there was this. There was this cartoon, right? Like the Peanuts. And there was this one. One of them. His. He had. His name was Linus, and he had a. He had, like, this cloud over his head. I don't know if it was Linus, but I don't remember his name. But they had a cloud over his head all the time. Tongue. And that's what my life was like. It's like I had this dark cloud over my mind all the time. So it's like, yo, I could preach a message and people be impacted and then be crying the way home because I feel depressed, right? And people not understand. Like, it's almost like in the light, I'm. I look strong to others, but in the dark, man, I'm dealing with depression, suicidal thoughts, I'm taking medication, all of that, right? And. And it's. It's powerful that you're saying this. And I want to say something about this. It's powerful that you're saying this because the Lord has really. Help me through this. I didn't know you was going through that, right? I didn't know he was going through that. But the fact that you said, you think about, like, man, I want to leave, but then I want to stay because I know I got to do God's work. I think some of that is glorious, right? There's a part of that that's glorious in that. I remember Paul wrote, like, he felt betwixt, right? Like a part of him wants to go and be with the Lord because he thought that that would be better, right? Like, let's just be honest, right? When people write about Paul, they glorify him like he's Christ. Paul is a man. And on the back half of Romans 17, this is Romans 7, this is the same man that says the things I don't want to do.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I do.

[Lena Mitchell]

I do. And what I should be doing, I don't do. And so he's. He's writing about, in code about his sin and his struggle. And he's. He's really expressing for us a type of frustration with the fact that I'm in a body that is fallen and sinful. And because of that, it brings things into my life that I hate. And I want to escape this body, right? And half of me wants to go and be with the Lord that's going to be better. But then he says, when I think about all the churches, when I think about all the souls that still need to hear the gospel, there's another half me says, I got to stay here for that purpose. It's the same thing with you. It's the same thing with me. There's a part of me that. Because they was a. I was struggling so bad with depression, said, lord, I just want to be free. Like what the Paul said, who would deliver me from this body of death? I want to be freed. This is why I hate sin. And people hear me talk about this on the platform. This is not like. This is not. This is not me trying to get kudos.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Let's just be honest. I hate sin.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

I hate sin because what it has done to me.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yep.

[Lena Mitchell]

Because of the mistakes that I've made, the hurt that I've caused people. People, my family, my children, others. The damage I see is done to people, marriages, all of that sin is so highly destructive. That. And because of sin, because of. Because we've been born in iniquity, we wrestle with things like depression and suicidal ideation, all of this. So when I think about how sin has deeply damaged the human race, has made me wrestle with depressions, made me hurt my wife and my kids, has made me hurt people. And when I think about all that sin, the pain is brought to my life. How do you. How do you think about that and not hate it? So I hate it. Right. So I'm saying that to say this is why Paul said, who will deliver us from this body of death? Like, I want to be freed from this flesh because of the pain that it caused me, because of the sin I wrestle with. But at the same time, there is fruit still that has to be accounted for down here. It's the same thing that you feel is like, man, Lord, like, there was a season, I would just want to go and be with you and be freed from all of this. But, dad. But when you think about. You have a platform, Megan, that there are women out there and men who are finding strength in your voice and in totality and who are being inspired by your journey. Right. I have a family member who's been inspired by your journey. You know what I'm saying? Yo, shout out. Yo, shout out to my cousin, Maisha Gray.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I'm rocking.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah. Shout out to my girl. I'm rocking her shirt right now, you know, Godfident, which is a whole line that her and her husband have. Shout out to Aaron, you know, Maisha Went to Bible college, too. She was at War Harvest. And so she saw your journey, and she's one of the people who has been inspired by your journey. So when you think about the people out there who's been inspired by your journey, like a maisha like myself, who has seen what you've come through. Right. It's like, man, when I think about our suffering and what we deal with is like, man, a hard part of me wants to go be with the Lord. But when I think about, there's still souls to be saved, there's still lives to be transformed. Matthew 24:14. Right. And this gospel.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Right. And. And. And this gospel will be preached in all the nations. And so when I think about this gospel still have to be preached until every person has heard it.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

It's like, lord, but there's a half of me that wants to remain in this body and suffer only for the sake of the gospel.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Not for the sake of anything else. Not for the sake of platforms or fame or money. The part of me that wants to stay is only for the sake of the gospel. Does that make sense?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

It does. And can I tell you, and this may sound. This may sound strange, but a lot.

[Lena Mitchell]

Of stuff we said today probably sounds strange.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I know this may sound strange, but when I think about the times that I have felt.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yo, I got a revelation, too.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

What?

[Lena Mitchell]

The fact that you just told me that. That you struggle with that. I did not know that. Right. It just makes your story so much more glorious. Right. Because it's kind of like somebody's watching right now, and I didn't mean to cut you off. So hold that thought.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

No, I'm holding.

[Lena Mitchell]

There's a woman watching right now who sees a Megan Ashley and think that they can never get to that level of spiritual maturity and intimacy with Christ, but they just heard you confess about the bipolar issue and the depression, all of that. You know what that gives people when we are transparent? It gives them hope. I think there are too many Christian influencers, ministers, pastors, and leaders who create an aura of perfection.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

That when people see them, they feel like they can't obtain. I will never get to that level of strength. I will never get to that level of intimacy with God. I will never get to that level of. Of. Of knowledge. And so we see them. Let's be for. And we almost. We almost are jealous, covetous. We idolize them. And we. We see them as almost superhuman. Right. But there's a woman watching right now who just heard you confess that. Right Here on this couch, who's shocked because they never knew that about you. But they admire your story. They admire your strength. They admire what God is doing right now in your life, how he's greatly increasing your platform nationally, globally.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And they should have hope.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

To think that, listen, if the Lord can use a broken pen like a Megan Ashley, then the Lord can use me just the same. It's almost like in your transparent moment that you just had.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

You got to think about how many people. And I just prophesied by faith, someone watch right now is being set free hearing what Megan Asher has struggled with or what a Philip Anthony Mitchell has struggled with. But look at what the Lord is doing in your life. And immediately they should have some hope that she's. She's. Look at what God has done in her life. Life.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

What he is doing.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

What he's about to do.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

But look at what she's come through and what she's dealing with. They should have hope.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

In this moment.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

In your story.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And it's crazy because I've never heard you talk about that before. I. I just learned something new. You know what I'm saying?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

But then it shows us the beauty of how Jesus. Using broken pieces and broken people.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Crooked things.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And he brings something beautiful out of those who are just willing to fully surrender. Because you know what you are? You are a surrendered woman. And it shows people what the Lord would do with a life that's just fully surrendered to him.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

That's part. I mean, control. But that just hit me like a ton of bricks, yo. That's hard.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I think. I think, because when I think about Paul and he says I'm allowed to.

[Lena Mitchell]

Be touching this microphone like this, like, can I do that? You know what I'm saying? Because I gotta move. Can I touch the microphone? So, I mean, your team is looking at me like, yo, my G, stop touching that microphone now. I mean, like, no.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

You good?

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I think when I think about Paul and I think about where he talks about this thorn that I had in my flesh, that the enemy thought he would use it to bring me to my knees, but he uses it.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Or you know, it. You thought you were going to use it to destroy me, but God is using it, and it makes me draw closer to him. I think about the times that I have gone through some really, like, hard depressions. I think about times where I've gone through really manic episodes.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And what happens on the other side of that is that I know God in a deeper way. And so it's like, although I wish I wouldn't have these feelings sometimes, although I wish I wouldn't fall. Like, I wouldn't be tempted to fall in, like, or feel things really deeply or be sad, like, or just be fine one moment and then the next moment not be fine. Although I wish I did not have that. The way that it increases my dependency on the Lord, which increases my intimacy with Him, I don't. Like, I almost am. Okay. Because if that's what it takes to keep me near him, if that's what it takes for me to know him in an intense and intimate way, I'm like, okay, like, Paul, your grace is sufficient.

[Lena Mitchell]

You know what's so powerful about that? And so you and I, like, in so many ways. Thank you for saying that. I think what you just said is so profound, and I want people to listen to what Megan just said is so profound. You know, a lot of people know me for my preaching. Right. And they know me for 2019. But that's not the strongest part of my life, Megan. Strongest part of my. I mean, there's people that could preach circles around me, like, I'm not that nice. Right. But people know me for my preaching, and that's not the strongest part of my life. The strongest part of my life is what people don't see is my prayer life. I. I have what I would call a ferocious prayer life.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

You know, and. And I want people to hear this. I. I say my prayer life is ferocious. Not because I'm super disciplined. I. I'm not. I have. I live a very. I live a highly disciplined life because I like the results that it brings. I'm not the most naturally disciplined person. I have a. Dang. I'm getting em. I have a ferocious prayer life because of my brokenness. And my brokenness drives me to my. My prayer room, wherever I am.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

At home, in the car. I live with a deep dependency upon Jesus because I know the depths of my own brokenness and I need Him. And so I don't know what this means. Means to somebody listening, but my prayer life has been born out of my own personal neediness.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

I'm a needy person.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

I need Jesus. I need Him. I need to be near Him.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And anytime my heart is heavy, anytime I feel depressed, and I still battle sometimes, anytime I feel overwhelmed, I am running to that secret place first. And so when you make the secret place your vice. Thank you, Holy Spirit. Right. When your secret place becomes a strong Advice than a bottle, then a blunt, then pornography, than a woman or a man, then money, then eating than a donut or cake. When your secret place becomes your vice, yoke, actually allow your brokenness, your suffering, your thorns, your pains, your trials and your hurts to produce in you a type of intimacy with Christ if you allow your suffering and your pains to cause your prayer time to become your vice. So. Right. So. So back in the days, let's keep it real, right? Like, I'm going through something. I go tap a bottle, I go get me a bottle of Hennessy and smoke a blunt and mellow out. Or I go get me a female and just, you know what I'm saying? Wake up next to something and push her off the bed and mellow out. Like, this is how I live pre Christ bc, Right? So I'm using women, I'm using drugs, I'm using alcohol, I'm using anger, I'm using aggression. I'm using streets and street fights to numb pain. Those were vices, but now prayer intimacy with Christ is my vice. And so because I feel pain so much, and because I've been through so much betrayal.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And because I still deal with depression every now and then, and because I deal with a lot of brokenness on the inside. Because I got insecurities.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

That the Lord is still.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Maturing in me.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

What that does, it drives me and let me go a little bit deeper. And because I feel grieved over the loss that. And because I feel grieved over the state of the church in the West.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And because I feel grieved over what is happening in America. And because I drive through our city and I shed tears when I think about our city, when I think about America, when I think about the church in the west, when I think about my insecurities, my brokenness, my failures, when I think about all those things, they drive me to that secret place, wherever I am, in the car, in a park, in a bathroom. Before we start this podcast, I was in your bathroom on my knees, praying. Like, it makes me intimate with Christ. It's the same thing. It's like prayer then becomes our vice. And so out of that thorn, out of that brokenness, if we treat Jesus as the vice, it actually produces in us, a type of intimacy with Christ that we would escape if we. If we use all these other things to mellow out our pain.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Does that.

[Lena Mitchell]

Does that make sense?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Absolutely. I think it. I think for people who are lacking, like, for me, what I've realized is that where I'm lacking in my prayer life is because I'm lacking the acknowledgment of the need that I have with the Lord.

[Lena Mitchell]

So good.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Do you know what I'm saying? So if you're lacking in your prayer life or you're saying, I don't really have a prayer life, or I, I want to have a prayer life, but I just don't. You are not acknowledging the need that you have for him 100%.

[Lena Mitchell]

And too many people see prayer as an obligation. They see it as just an activity.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

So it's like, let me get in there real quick for five minutes and you check off the box. And, and, and when you see prayer as just an obligatory activity, it's going to feel like a burden to you.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yep.

[Lena Mitchell]

Instead of seeing prayers like, what you and I are doing right now is this ongoing conversation you're having with the Lord that does not require you to be on your knees. You can lay down, kneel down, stand up, walk. You could be in a closet or a bathroom. You could be in your car or your stall. You could be in a park. You could be on an airplane. When people start to see prayer as one, the, the highest engagement we will have with the Lord is the fact that God created a pathway for created beings to talk to the Creator and to. And to draw near to him in prayer. And when we understand that in prayer, we go into the throne room room, and we, we come before his presence like little children, and we sit there like, like a child will climb up on the lap of a father and mother, and we get to cry out all of our pain. When you see prayer as something that's just this, this channel for intimacy between you and the Father, you and Jesus, fellowship with the Holy Spirit, you get to weep there, you get to cry there, you get to get angry there, you get to tell God. You get to be honest there. But when you see it as something obligatory, I got to get it off and check my little Christian box, then you're not going to do it, and you're not going to do it, and you're going to be jealous of people who are hearing from God, who have intimacy with God. You think that they are super Christian. No, they just have intimacy with the Lord. Like, I want to encourage as many people as possible who are watching this. Right. Like, don't see prayer as a religious duty.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Right.

[Lena Mitchell]

I don't even know which camera is mine. Like this one right here. Like, don't, don't. Let's not see prayer as, like, A religious duty. Let's see prayer as the access. There's that word that God gave us. To have an intimate, personal relationship with him. And access to go into a secret place and be fully transparent, fully known, fully honest. To cry, to weep, to say. I'm struggling with anger. I'm struggling with lust. I'm mad, Lord. I feel like blowing up my marriage. I feel betrayed, abandoned. I'm mad at you, Lord. Yeah, I'm mad at you, Lord. I don't feel like reading, like, for you to just go and be radically honest.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And just feel the love and warmth of the Savior. Like, is that my camera? Like, can I. Yeah, right. Like, I want to encourage people to. To not see prayer. And this is important because, man, if you lose your Bible, if. If the country makes the Bible illegal, if we lose the word of God, you listen. There is something that they cannot take from us. You can take the Bible from me, you could take gatherings from me. You can make preaching illegal. But there are some. Something they cannot take from us, and that is our deep, intimate, personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ that we are cultivating in that secret place. And no matter what they do to us in the future, no matter what persecution come, they cannot take that away. So if it's anything, I want to encourage you, like, I didn't read today. Okay, Pass. Just talk to him today. You know what I'm saying? I didn't. I didn't do my devotional today. Okay. We give you grace for that. Just talk to him. Just keep. Keep having this ongoing relationship. You it, man. You could be walking and just singing a song, listening to worship, being in a park. Just talk to him over and over and over. Like Paul said, pray without ceasing. You know what that means? It should be like breathing. It's just. It's just. It's. It's part. It's like. It's just part of what I do.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And I want to encourage people to take that serious.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Because with that intimacy, man, it's like you may not read the way you want to read, and you may not all that grace. You'll talk to the Father.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Talk and keep your mind on him.

[Lena Mitchell]

Keep your mind stayed on him too.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

It's like having a God consciousness, having a God consciousness, keeping your mind on things that are pure and lovely. And when I think of what is pure, I think of him. When I think of who is lovely, I think of him. And so my mind. And my mind is always thinking, like, in my mind, I feel like I'm always having this conversation with the Lord.

[Lena Mitchell]

It's crazy what the Lord has done in your life. Yo, yo, this is insane. I'm not like, yo, I'm sorry, yo, but I remember you from Bible college. Like, they don't know the Megan Ashley bro that I know. Yo, it's crazy. The fact that you talking like this is crazy to me. Yo, they don't know you.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

God's word now.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yo, you were so far away from God, though, Megan. You was a mess.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Not.

[Lena Mitchell]

I know you was. No, you was a mess, Megan. Trying to figure out, like, you were so far away from God. I used to see you in Bible college, like, like, this young lady, like. And because you still. But you still had influence, I'll be praying for you back in Bible college. And Lena, like, yeah, everybody knew you as just, oh, she's pretty. She leads remnant. Her mother's on fire for Jesus. Like, your mother's a beast, right? I'm like, her mother's on fire for Jesus. But this girl, like, she's boy crazy. She ended of relationships, like. But no, also. But to hear you talk like this now, it's powerful for me to sit here and listen to you talk like this, knowing where you came from.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

And I want you to see this. And I'm not trying to. I'm not trying to gas you, but I want you to see the fruit of what you have done, too, and of what your yes has done. Because a lot of what I am experiencing now in God, in this love that I have for His Word and this burden that I have for his church is because of the leadership that I'm under. It's because of the community that I'm in. And if it wasn't for you and Lena and if it wasn't for Preston and Jackie and it wasn't for, like, having a community of people, I don't know if I would be able to sustain and steward what he has given me.

[Lena Mitchell]

Well, man, thank you.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Because I can go to you guys and be like, I'm struggling.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I've text you before and been like, I need you to pray for me. I'm struggling.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I don't want to do this anymore.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

You know, so I'm. I want you to see that. Like, yes, obviously, all praise to the Lord who's done all the work. But if it wasn't for your Yes, I don't know if I would be able to sustain this. If I didn't have someone like, people who just be out here with platforms and they have no Accountability. They have no covering. They have no pastor. Like, I am so thankful that the Lord brought me to 28:19. And what he has done, like, it has changed my life. It has changed Jay's life. It's changed Jordan's life. Like, and it's. And Jay is changing. Like, his witness is changing people in his life, and Jordan's witness is changing people in her life and family members. Like, it has changed our lives because it's healthy. And Christ is at the center. And you preach the word and you don't boast about yourself and you don't gas yourself if you talk about God and you lead us to Christ. And I'm not gassing you. I'm just saying thank you because I have had plenty of leaders and plenty of pastors who manipulate people's gifts and who don't love them. Well, you text me at 4:00 in the morning, 5:00 in the morning saying that you're praying for me and speaking life into me on days that you didn't know that I wanted to quit. So I'm just. I just want to say thank you for being a covering, for being my brother, for being my pastor. Just thank you. Because what you. Your, yes. Is not in vain. And the hard things that you struggle with are. It's not in vain. And I know you go through a lot and I feel for you deeply all the time, you and Lena. But God sees you. He sees you, he sees Lena, he sees your children. And the things that you guys have sacrificed and suffer is not in vain. And there are many that are going to be accounted to you guys. Many, many. So thank you. I just want to say thank you.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, I appreciate that. That is, man. Thank you for those kind words. And that means a lot. You know? You know that means a lot because, you know, it's like, like, even with the crowds of people showing up at 2019, like, that means very little to me if this is not happening. Right? Like, like, that means little to me. And I know that your Patreon community is going to get some behind the scenes stuff that I shared, but a lot of that means little to me. And yo, if you're not on Megan's Patreon, you need to join the Patreon, okay? You're gonna get content there that you're not gonna hear on this couch in these sessions. There's some content there that I dropped for. Everybody's in that Patreon community. If you're not in Megan's Patreon community, I Just want to encourage you. This is not like. This is a shameless plug for her. You need to join her Patreon community. So everybody watching, join the Patreon. There's stuff there that we talked about you're not going to hear here. But, man, I'm deeply humbled by that, because in full transparency, you know, it's like, this is my tears, right? This is. This is what I cry about more than anything. It's like. Like some people may celebrate crowds and platforms, and that really means very little to me. I've never played for a platform. I've never asked God to put me on a podcast. I'm not, as God to put me on stages. I don't really care about those things. What I care about more than anything is the spiritual condition of God's people. Right? Like, there's one woman in the back of that crowd. She's the 2,256 person to walk through the door on a Sunday. Where is she in her heart? How is her children doing? Does she really have a relationship with Jesus? This is what matters most to me. And this is no cap. It doesn't mean anything to me to have a church of thousands of people if thousands of them are going to hell, if thousands of them have no relationship with Jesus, what. What I want more than anything is to see lives turn from darkness to light and to be fully sold out for Christ and have an intimacy with him where we. We love the things that he loves.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Gosh. Where we. We hate the things that he hates. Where we are turning from sin, we're turning from worldliness. We are wringing out our own sin. We are giving our hearts and our lives to what is important to Him. We have relationship with him through prayer. We love His Word, and we see ourselves of being connected to that Great Commission. We see ourselves as being connected to something that is eternal, that goes beyond the materialism of this life. If I could. If I could. If I could get a blank check from the Lord to say that this would be the testimony of my children, my wife, all of our leaders, our squad leaders, everyone, our digital disciples, I would give almost my own life to secure that as a testimony that everyone who hears my voice would grow to the point where they have your testimony. I would. I would give my life for that. And I think that's more important than platforms and money and accolades and fame and all this other stuff that we think is important.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

You know?

[Lena Mitchell]

You know what I'm saying?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

So just thank you for that. You know, that Means a lot to me to hear you say that. I mean, and I'm just thankful to see what Jesus has done in your life, Megan, man, the Lord has brought you such a long. I mean, look at you, man. Again, look what the Lord has done in your life, right? Look at the tens of thousands of people you impacted right now simply because of your complete surrender to Jesus. I mean, just seeing you right here and spending this time with you right here and just knowing where we both came from, but where you really came from, man, there is a God in heaven who exists. He is there. And you have no idea what God would do with a completely surrendered life. Somebody needs to hear that, right? Like, they have no idea, Megan, what God would do with a completely surrendered life. Not half of me, but with a completely surrendered life. He takes our ashes and turns them into something beautiful. He takes a confused, wild, rebellious boy crazy teenager and makes her a global voice in our generation. That's what he does.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That's why it meant so much with a fully surrendered life that you baptized me. And.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yo, Megan, you got baptized a couple weeks ago, and some stuff died in that water that needed to die.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

It did.

[Lena Mitchell]

It was powerful to see you. It was an honor.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I was so thankful because I just think that we were just a big part of my journey and my development. But before we go, I do want to add us. Are you excited for Acts 242 conference?

[Lena Mitchell]

I am. It'd be my first opportunity to speak at a conference in the city where God planted me. The ticket sales are insane right now, y'all.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Y'all better say thank you to Phil, because it's because of him that we even have.

[Lena Mitchell]

You was. Listen, yo, do y'all know Megan was going to do this conference in a room with, like, 250 people and we on a Zoom meeting, right? Can we be honest for quick second second before we bounce? We in a Zoom meeting. And Megan is like, yo, I got this vision. Like, this is all Megan's vision, right? Like, to do the Acts 242. Listen, I don't know. Some of y'all are new to our podcast. This woman loves Jesus. And this woman is serious about this Bible. She's serious about the Word. For those of y'all who are new to Megan's podcast, this woman loves God. She loves Christ. She loves his Bible. Megan is like, she wants to see her Acts 2 Church. 2019 is an Acts 2 Church.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

It is.

[Lena Mitchell]

So when she. She. When she. When we was in the zoom about this conference, it was like, yeah. We're gonna do this, like, 20, 50 people. It's gonna be like a little group meeting. I'm listening to. I'm like, you know, you Megan Ashley. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, and then you got Jackie Hill Perry, so you got Megan Ashley and jhp, And I'm in. And I'm. I'm in the Zoom with them. Like, are y'all two ladies? Like, y'all don't understand your influence? Like, now you 250. Nah, we gotta. We gotta make this big. And I remember when I was like, well, let's do. When we gather 2019. I said. I said, that room is not even going to be big enough. Y'all need to go find a room. That seat, like, three, four thousand people.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And it's over 4, 000 ticket sales. Seven thousand, seven thousand. Right. So the Tick is crazy, Right? And to think that this was going to be 250 people, and now it's going to be, like, 7,000 people in that room. And they're not coming for a show.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

No.

[Lena Mitchell]

I don't know what they think they're coming from, but they're not going to get a show.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

They know they're not getting a show.

[Lena Mitchell]

They're not coming for a show. They're not coming from prosperity gospel. They're not coming for self help.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

No.

[Lena Mitchell]

They're coming to hear Christ exalted in proclamation and teaching.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And in. In small sessions.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

That is the whole thing behind it is for the. The proclamation of the gospel, the exaltation of Christ.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

It is to multiply disciples. And watch. This is what God told us to do. This is what Jesus told us to do.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Like, simple.

[Lena Mitchell]

Don't over complicate this. Make disciples. And that's what we're about to do at this conference. I am excited about the conference. And if you're watching in totality right now, you have not gotten your ticket by the time this is. I didn't even know there's gonna be seats left. If there is a seat left, yo, you need to get your ticket. And if you gangster like me, you don't have a ticket. Just be in a parking lot.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Me and Jordan said, yo, just be.

[Lena Mitchell]

In the parking lot.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Gonna be like, let them in.

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, just let us. Cinnamon, let him sit on the floor. Like, yo, even if you can't get a ticket, yo, just get in the parking lot. Like, listen, if people could. Yo, all jokes aside, right? If people could tailgate football events, yo, you need to tailgate the event that's happening for Jesus right here in Atlanta. Your tailgate, yo. Get in the parking lot. Call up your family and friends. Just be in the parking lot and pray in the parking lot. You know what I'm saying? Let glory hit the parking lot. Just be in the vicinity.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Because I really feel like it's going to be. I know it's going to be.

[Lena Mitchell]

Listen, we got the whole prayer team at our church praying over this thing every single week. I'm praying over this thing every single day. There's so much prayer going up. There's so much. There's so much crying out to Jesus going up. Because, like, we not just trying to put on a conference, right? No, we trying to shake Atlanta with the authenticity of the exhortation of Christ and his and his mission to make disciples.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Are you praying for me? Because they want me to preach. Are you praying for me? I'm not preaching.

[Lena Mitchell]

They want to. Do you need to speak?

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I'm gonna speak.

[Lena Mitchell]

They want to hear you proclaim.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I'm gonna talk.

[Lena Mitchell]

It's in you. It's. It's all. It's in you. It's. It's all.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

But are you praying for me, sir?

[Lena Mitchell]

I am praying for you, but it's in you. I've been telling you this.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I know. I know it's gonna be.

[Lena Mitchell]

I've been telling your voices for this generation. Yes, sir, Your voice is for this hour. And I've been telling you this. Right. No matter what hell you're going through, even the people that persecute you right now, Great. Is your reward in hell.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

God has set you apart in your voice for this hour and for this generation. Because like all jokes aside, I don't know how much time we got left.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That's a fact.

[Lena Mitchell]

Right. I want people to hear that time is running out. I don't think we have all this time left. And I think what God is doing right now is pulling up the skirt on false prophets. He is bringing a cleaning and a purging to the church. But he's raising up voices like yours, voices like Jackie's, hopefully voices like mine in these last days who will sound an alarm.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

It's like Colossians 1:28. Him we proclaim.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

Warning everyone.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

And teaching everyone.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

With all wisdom that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. And so I think he's raising up your voice for that in this hour. And if you have not gotten your ticket, if there's any lack particip time, you need to go get your ticket or just get in the parking lot. Maybe you could get through a back door.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Something. Phil's will let you in the back door.

[Lena Mitchell]

I'll let everybody through the back door.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Okay. So we end all of my episodes with a journal prompt.

[Lena Mitchell]

Journal.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

So I, I'm really big into journal. I love journaling. It just helps me think and process.

[Lena Mitchell]

I've been journaling for 20 years.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah, I've been journaling my whole life in some sort of way. And I think journaling could just be really helpful in processing and, and, you know, going through some of the things that you've heard today. So what would be a good, like journal journal prompt for those of that are just not used to journaling?

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

What after reading or listening to this episode would be like a good journal prompt?

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, that's dope. I, I've journaled for 20 years, so I think that's dope. I think if you're listening to this right now and you're looking for a journal prompt, there's a different category of people out there. So I'm just throw out three things. I think you can journal either all three or at least one of them. I think a good journal prompt would be, is what am I listening to right now in terms of your preaching, in terms of podcasts, books, preaching the church in. Maybe you should, you should, you should take some time and write about what am I listening to? Am I hearing a gospel that is authentic? Am I hearing the gospels all about me? You know, you're listening to doctrine as humanists. If all the messages about you and, and I will encourage some of you to journal about what are you listening to right now? What. What do you put in your ears? Because whatever goes through this gate is going to get lodged in your soul. So that's one thing. What am I hearing right now? What am I lending my soul and my heart to? Your ears are very important. What are you lending it to? That's number one. Another journal problem for somebody right now who's watching this, who's suffering. They're going through. They just came through a bad divorce. They're just like me on the way here. Just lost a loved one. They just lost a job, they got a diagnosis. Something's going on in their home. There's somebody right now listening to this who is just going through a very difficult season. How can you see the difficulty you're going through as being useful to produce in you something glorious to the, to the, to the name Jesus Christ.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

That's good.

[Lena Mitchell]

Why don't you write about your Suffering and how you can use this season to produce in you a greater intimacy for the Lord. So that. And then the last thing I would encourage somebody to journal about is where am I in terms of my relationship with Christ? Like, spatial. Am I far from him? Am I close to him? And like you was talking about earlier, like Megan was saying, what is my community like? What is my spiritual accountability like? Who are my friends? Who are the people that are closest to me? Am I surrounded by men and women of God who are helping me grow? Are they keeping me accountable? Can I go be honest with them? Say, I'm struggling with loss, I'm struggling with anger, I'm struggling with pain. Like, do you have a good support system or do you have a good accountability system? I want people to think about that. Think about, think about who is around you right now and where you are in terms of your relationship with Christ, how far away you are from him. And what is your community like? What is your Bible intake like, what is your prayer life like? And what pivots can you make towards Christ that's going to foster greater intimacy with him? I think those are good things to journal right now.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I love that. Yeah, I love that. Can you pray us out?

[Lena Mitchell]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Pray for the people. Thank you.

[Lena Mitchell]

Thank you for having me on the podcast. I really appreciate that.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Appreciate you.

[Lena Mitchell]

It's been an honor talking to you. I love you.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

I love you too.

[Lena Mitchell]

This was dope.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Yeah.

[Lena Mitchell]

We gotta do this again. We gotta have Lena on here next time. We're gonna have Lena next time. Eternal God and ever wise Father, we give you glory, honor and praise right now for who you are, the creator of all things. And we want to thank you that at some point in time, in all of our lives, you pulled us out of darkness into the marvelous light. You've given us the privilege of being called sons and daughters. For this, we'll be eternally grateful, Father. First we pray for the non believer who may have crept into this conversation is watching. Would you reveal yourself to them in a very real and tangible way? Would you draw them to yourself, God, and rescue them from the fires of hell and bring them aboard the Ark of Safety before it's too late? And Father, I pray for the church globally, the church locally, and all the brothers and sisters of 2019 and all of our digital disciples. Lord, here's what I'm asking for. That you would deliver us all, God, from iniquity and sin. That you would give us a hatred for all that is sinful, all that is dark, all that is wicked, that is evil. That we would hate debauchery. That we would disdain the things that you disdain and we will love the things that you love. I want to pray something like scales will fall from our eyes and that we will see the world through the lens of your son. That we will be grieved over the state of humanity. We will be grieved over the loss. That we will hear the counsel of heaven saying, who can we send? I pray, pray for all of us, God, that our lives would be a fragrance of complete sacrifice unto you. That we'll give all of our lives to you. We will surrender everything to you. And that what you would do in the body of Christ globally and here in Atlanta and in 2019 and all of our digital disciples is set a people on fire. Let us be like the sons of Issachar who rightly discerned the times and knew what to do about it. I pray for an awakening. I pray for a stirring. I pray you throw down a ball of fire from heaven and set the sons and daughters on fire. Let us be aware that time is running out and where we come out of foolishness and come out of nonsense and come out of sin and come out of sexual immorality and come out of idolatry and give ourselves totally to your commission in this hour, let us be servants and missionaries and agents for you. Wherever you have planted us, from single mothers to corporate executives, let us be your missionaries and your agents in the city of Atlanta through 2819. Through our digital disciples, we pray for the spread of the gospel globally and in dark strongholds around the world. I ask this Father right now that Christ would be exalted, will be exonerated and venerated in this hour. I ask this right now in the mighty and the majestic and the matchless name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, let in totality spread and the message of Jesus spread in this beautiful name I pray amen and amen and Amen.

[Philip Anthony Mitchell]

Thank you so much. See you guys next week on another episode. I know this one will bless you. See you later. Hey you guys, before you go, I just wanted to say how grateful I am for your love and support. If you've enjoyed this episode, please take a moment and share it with a friend or family member. If you could do me one huge favor, head over to Apple podcast and leave a five star rating and a heartfelt review. It helps others just like you discover the podcast. You guys, let's continue to spread the inspiration. For more about me and the podcast, visit ww themaganashley.com until next time, stay encouraged that you are so valued and so loved.