EP 52: Faith and Politics (Ft. Justin E. Giboney)

Summary

Podcast Summary: In Totality with Megan Ashley Episode 52: Faith and Politics (Ft. Justin E. Giboney) Release Date: October 29, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 52 of In Totality with Megan Ashley, host Megan Ashley engages in a profound conversation with Justin E. Giboney, co-founder of the AND Campaign. The episode delves into the intricate relationship between faith and politics, particularly from the perspective of a Christian navigating the often tumultuous political landscape.

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Guest Background: Justin E. Giboney

Justin E. Giboney introduces himself as an ordained minister, attorney, and political strategist with over a decade of experience running campaigns in Atlanta. Raised in Denver and educated at Vanderbilt University, Justin's journey into politics was fueled by a deep-seated desire for competition, stemming from his athletic background. However, his path took a transformative turn as he reconciled his political involvement with his Christian faith.

Notable Quote:

"I'm just enjoying the times, right? I'm going to all the places I shouldn't be going, all that stuff."
— Justin E. Giboney [03:38]

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The Intersection of Faith and Politics

Justin discusses the challenges of integrating faith into political participation, emphasizing that separation between church and state does not equate to isolation of personal values from political decisions. He argues that Christians can and should use their values to inform their political choices without forcing their beliefs upon others.

Notable Quote:

"We live in a pluralistic society... But I don't want to force nobody to be a Christian. In fact, that's not even how the religion works."
— Justin E. Giboney [01:44]

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The False Gospel and Personal Transformation

Justin recounts his departure from a shallow expression of faith during his college years, influenced by an "alternative gospel" that permitted complacency. His transformative experience in Atlanta, marked by personal struggles and divine intervention, led him to a more authentic and sacrificial understanding of the gospel.

Notable Quote:

"God just worked on my heart, gave me a second... and that's why we're married now."
— Justin E. Giboney [12:13]

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Founding the AND Campaign: Merging Love and Truth

The AND Campaign was established to bridge the perceived divide between love and truth in politics. Justin criticizes the tendency of political parties to prioritize one over the other, arguing for a balanced approach that embodies both compassion and integrity, as exemplified by the teachings of Ephesians 4:14-15.

Notable Quote:

"We're bringing those two together. And as much as our political parties... we're gonna push those together."
— Justin E. Giboney [08:57]

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Historical Context: Black Voters and Party Shifts

Justin provides a historical overview of African American political alignment, highlighting the shift from the Democratic to the Republican Party and back. He explains how historical events, such as the civil rights movement and the emergence of the Moral Majority, have shaped current voting patterns and perceptions within the black community.

Notable Quote:

"Jim Crow ends in '65, '68... less than 20 years before I was born."
— Justin E. Giboney [25:40]

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Engaging Faith in the Political Process

Justin emphasizes the importance of Christians actively participating in politics to uphold moral values and advocate for social justice. He discourages blind allegiance to political parties, advocating instead for informed voting based on personal convictions and the genuine desire to serve the community.

Notable Quote:

"Prayer, line up the issue, you know, line up which issues are important to you. Make a decision and let it go."
— Justin E. Giboney [28:36]

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Navigating Racial and Political Tensions

The conversation addresses the emotional and psychological toll of political polarization, especially for black Christians. Justin advocates for honesty about historical injustices, accountability without hatred, and building relationships beyond political affiliations to foster understanding and healing.

Notable Quote:

"There's redemption for that. There's grace for that."
— Justin E. Giboney [49:44]

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Strategies for Informed and Faithful Voting

Justin advises listeners to diversify their information sources to avoid confirmation bias and encourages critical engagement with media. He recommends podcasts and newsletters that offer balanced perspectives, such as Breaking Point, Counterpoints, and Unheard Free Press, to cultivate a well-rounded understanding of political issues.

Notable Quote:

"If you want to get closest to the truth, we need to hear both sides of the story."
— Justin E. Giboney [54:34]

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Encouraging Bold Christian Witness in Politics

Highlighting the example of Stephen from the Book of Acts, Justin calls for Christians to exhibit boldness and courage in defending their faith within the public sphere. He underscores the importance of transforming personal convictions into constructive political action without compromising integrity or fostering division.

Notable Quote:

"The goal is transformation. But we don't want to listen to anybody that tells us we have to transform, because I'm already good."
— Justin E. Giboney [18:32]

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Conclusion and Journal Prompts

Megan and Justin wrap up the episode by encouraging listeners to integrate prayer into their political decision-making, engage actively in their communities, and approach elections with humility and discernment. Justin offers reflective journal prompts to help listeners process their beliefs and actions in light of their faith.

Notable Quote:

"Realize Jesus isn't on the ballot. And that's not to say that both sides are equal..."
— Justin E. Giboney [63:13]

Journal Prompt:

• Reflect on how your faith influences your political decisions. In what ways can you better integrate prayer and biblical principles into your voting process?

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Key Takeaways

1. Integration of Faith and Politics: Christians can and should allow their values to inform their political choices without enforcing their beliefs on others.
2. Authentic Gospel Practice: A genuine relationship with God requires sacrifice and holiness, beyond superficial expressions of faith.
3. Historical Awareness: Understanding the historical shifts in political party alignments is crucial for informed voting and advocacy.
4. Balanced Information Consumption: Diversifying media sources helps in overcoming confirmation bias and fosters a more comprehensive understanding of political issues.
5. Constructive Political Engagement: Boldness in faith should translate into thoughtful and compassionate political action, promoting both love and truth.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Justin E. Giboney [03:38]: "I'm just enjoying the times, right? I'm going to all the places I shouldn't be going, all that stuff."
• Justin E. Giboney [01:44]: "We live in a pluralistic society... But I don't want to force nobody to be a Christian. In fact, that's not even how the religion works."
• Justin E. Giboney [12:13]: "God just worked on my heart, gave me a second... and that's why we're married now."
• Justin E. Giboney [08:57]: "We're bringing those two together. And as much as our political parties... we're gonna push those together."
• Justin E. Giboney [25:40]: "Jim Crow ends in '65, '68... less than 20 years before I was born."
• Justin E. Giboney [28:36]: "Prayer, line up the issue, you know, line up which issues are important to you. Make a decision and let it go."
• Justin E. Giboney [49:44]: "There's redemption for that. There's grace for that."
• Justin E. Giboney [54:34]: "If you want to get closest to the truth, we need to hear both sides of the story."
• Justin E. Giboney [18:32]: "The goal is transformation. But we don't want to listen to anybody that tells us we have to transform, because I'm already good."
• Justin E. Giboney [63:13]: "Realize Jesus isn't on the ballot. And that's not to say that both sides are equal..."

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This episode offers a thoughtful exploration of how Christians can navigate the complexities of political engagement while maintaining their faith and moral integrity. Justin E. Giboney provides valuable insights and practical advice for listeners seeking to reconcile their spiritual beliefs with their civic responsibilities.

Transcript

[Megan Ashley]

Hey there, In Totality fam, we need your help. We're running a quick audience survey and we love to hear from you. Head over to Gum FM Totality. It's super simple and we want to keep bringing you content that you love. Let's be real, guys. You know it, we know it. There are ads on our podcast and we want to make the experience better for you. We need to learn a little more about who's tuning in. By filling out this short survey, you'll be helping us improve the show. It's quick, easy, free, and it'll take you just two minutes. Your feedback makes a huge difference to us. So head over to Gum FM Totality. That's G U M F M T O T A L I T Y And let your voice be heard. Thanks for being such an amazing part of our community. Let's get back to the show with.

[Justin Gibbony]

The $5 meal deal at McDonald's. You pick a McDouble or a McChicken, then get a small fry, a small drink and a four piece McNuggets. That's a lot of McDonald's for not a lot of money.

[Co-Host]

Price of participation may vary. For a limited time only. Why do we separate God from politics? Is it because of this idea of separation between church and state type of thing? Like when I pray, I am not thinking about politics and I know I need to be.

[Justin Gibbony]

You hit it on the head. Look, we live in a what they would call pluralistic society, which means we live amongst people with different beliefs and we do have a separation between church and state. What that does not mean is that you don't use your values as you vote and as you think through who you're gonna support. But I don't wanna force nobody to be a Christian. In fact, that's not even how the religion works.

[Co-Host]

Correct?

[Justin Gibbony]

Right. So in that way, there's a separation. I'm not gonna force you, but I am gonna look to my values to decide what's important and how I'm gonna help other people.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

And we've bought into the idea that we can completely se from our faith.

[Megan Ashley]

Hey, you guys.

[Co-Host]

Welcome to In Totality, a place where we celebrate authenticity and openness. We're here for those who are willing to explore, those who embrace imperfections, and for those with open hearts and minds. I'm excited to embark on this journey with you. And while I can't predict every twist.

[Megan Ashley]

And turn, I'm certain that God will.

[Co-Host]

Be by our side with every step of obedience. Welcome to In Totality.

[Megan Ashley]

With me, your host, Megan Ashley. What's up, you guys?

[Co-Host]

Welcome back to another episode of In Totality. I'm your host, Megan Ashley.

[Megan Ashley]

Do me a favor.

[Co-Host]

Before we get into this episode, make.

[Megan Ashley]

Sure you hit the subscribe button right now on the YouTube.

[Co-Host]

Make sure you subscribe, and if you're listening to this, make sure you download the episode. Make sure you have this, the podcast saved. I don't know if you're listening on Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening. Make sure you download, save, share, subscribe. All the things I try to do my best at, bringing a variety of guests on that will help us navigate through this just crazy life, because life is complex, and it has different. You know, we face all different types of stuff, which is why this podcast is called In Totality, because I try to cover it all as best I can with the lens of looking at it through Jesus and how Christ would want us to live. And. And so I'm really excited for our guest today because, as you guys know, we are coming. We are approaching an election year, and I don't know about y'all, but I need help. And so I'm really excited to introduce to you guys our guest for today, Justin Gibbony. How are you?

[Justin Gibbony]

I'm good. Glad to be here.

[Co-Host]

Thank you for being here. I'm so excited that you accepted our invitation to come. I didn't even know that you followed me until I was introduced to who.

[Megan Ashley]

You were, and I was like, oh, wow, he already follows me.

[Co-Host]

So I was so happy that you already kind of knew about what I.

[Megan Ashley]

Had going on over there.

[Justin Gibbony]

I appreciate your work. Just the authenticity, just how genuine you are and vulnerable. So I think, you know, I'm always crying.

[Co-Host]

I know everybody always makes fun of me. They're like.

[Justin Gibbony]

But it connects. It sticks with people.

[Co-Host]

Thank you. Thank you. So tell us who you are.

[Megan Ashley]

Tell us.

[Co-Host]

You are the co. Founder, Right. Of the AND campaign. And so you. You are engaged in and involved in all things politics, but you are a believer.

[Justin Gibbony]

Absolutely.

[Co-Host]

Love the Lord.

[Justin Gibbony]

Love the Lord. So, yeah, basically, I'm an ordained minister.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Justin Gibbony]

But I'm also an attorney and a political strategist. So I worked for the mayor of Atlanta for a number of years, ran campaigns in the city for over a decade. And so my ministry is to. To talk to people about the intersection between faith and politics.

[Megan Ashley]

So have you always lived in Atlanta?

[Co-Host]

Are you from here?

[Megan Ashley]

Or tell us just about your background?

[Co-Host]

Where are you from, all the things. How did you even get into politics?

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah. So I'M from Denver.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay.

[Justin Gibbony]

And then I moved to Nashville to play football at Vanderbilt University. Go to school at Vanderbilt University. Went to law school there. And then when I got out of law school, I came to down to Atlanta. So I've been in Atlanta for a while. Was raised in the church, you know, so my mom's a pk. Kind of dealt with her ptsd, you know, with being a pre K pk. And when I got to college, kind of faded away from the faith a little bit. I mean, I think I was getting. I didn't have an apologetic, so I was getting asked questions that I couldn't answer. And eventually I kind of turned the other way and became kind of like the persecutor of the church. A little bit like the person questioning people and all that stuff. Thank God I went. By the time I came to Atlanta, I went through some stuff that God showed me.

[Co-Host]

Really?

[Justin Gibbony]

You ain't got this.

[Co-Host]

Really?

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah, you need me. And he made himself very real to me. During that time, I was also in politics. So I had a group of friends who we would meet together, and we would either talk about sports or we talk about politics.

[Co-Host]

Wow. Was that something you were always interested in or did that start.

[Justin Gibbony]

My dad always talked to me about politics here and there. And he. You know, my. Both my parents, like, worked around politicians sometimes, so it was something I was interested in, especially going through school, I got more interest. More interest in it. And then when I went down to Atlanta, that's just what we talked about. And so we started watching just being, you know, just being folks who kept up with what was going on. Then there was a mayor's race coming up, and we were like, man, we might as well get into the game.

[Co-Host]

Really?

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah. So we basically went to a campaign and say, how can we help?

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

You know, he ended up winning. And so now I'm in City Hall. But I had gone through the whole process of a campaign meeting all the activists around the city, business people around the city, all the politicos, and I just started to get into the game.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

And really enjoyed it. I think one of the reasons that I liked politics was being an athlete. My whole life, I missed the competition. So once I really started, stopped playing at a high level, I'm like, man, I need some competition. Politics kind of provided me for that. Now, it wasn't the right reason. Right. But it was probably the reason that I initially got in it. But as my faith, I started really getting back into my faith. I started to see some real conflicts with Some of the positions I was kind of being forced to take and my faith. And I saw a lot of Christians struggling with that, saying, if I run for office, then I gotta push this stuff that I believe away. I can't talk about that. I gotta erase it off my Facebook or else I get attacked. And so I started thinking, why is that the case in Atlanta? There's all these biblical churches on every other corner.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

Why do we. Why can't we be who we are? Even if. Even though we represent everybody? If you get in office, you represent everybody. I shouldn't have to hide my beliefs. And I just started to realize the issue was there wasn't enough organization around the. You know how Christians were doing politics.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

If you were a Democrat, then you just did politics the way the Democrats do it. If you're a Republican, you just do it the way the Republicans supposed to do it. And I was like, there's got to be something better for Christians to be faithful in the public square, because we can't. We can't let either party be our master.

[Co-Host]

Correct. Correct. Is that where the end campaign started?

[Justin Gibbony]

That's where the idea from the end campaign starts to roll around. It took a few years. I end up being a delegate at the Democratic National Convention twice in a row. And I started to say, yeah, I gotta do this differently. End up reading Ephesians 4, verses 14 through 15, where Paul tells the church of Ephesus, we have to speak the truth in love. Obviously, we gotta do that in our personal relationships, but that also applies to what we do in the public square. And so I started thinking. I'm like, that's it. That's the problem. There's this false separation in our politics where one side says they're all about love, the other side says they're all about truth. And then we split the two. So we have social justice Christians on this side, we have more morality Christians on the other side. And neither of them are saying, no, we need both of these things. And when I read the Gospel, I was like, no, we do. Jesus didn't choose between love and truth. He didn't choose between being just. And being about morality. It was both. And that's what the Gospel does. It brings both those things together in kind of like a tension instead of.

[Co-Host]

Or it's. And it's.

[Justin Gibbony]

And. And so that. Exactly. That's the. And campaign. Right. We're bringing those two together. And in as much as our political parties or our ideological tribes try to separate them, we're gonna push those together. And we're gonna fight back against each other.

[Co-Host]

I love that. So I want to. I want to get into all the things. Politics, but I want to ask because I am very interested in. I'm always interested in people's story to faith and like, how they got. Because I am technically. My mom wasn't a pastor, but she was a minister in our church. So I know what it's like to be a PK kid. And so I grew up in church and I know how to do all the things. I know how to shout. I know how to lift my hands. I know how to all the things speaking to. I grew up in Submerged in Church, so I know what it's like to have a false faith. I have an. A counterfeit relationship with the Lord. And the reason why this whole podcast came about is because the Lord revealed himself to me in a real way right here on this porch in 2023. And it radically changed my life. And that's when I became a serious Christian. And so I'm always interested in hearing people when they're like, yeah, I grew up in the faith. But then there was a moment my life where I became serious about my faith. And you mentioned that when you came to Atlanta, God actually showed you himself in a real way. So I'm interested in what that was like for you. You don't have to go into details, but what was that like for you when God revealed himself to you in a real way?

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah, that's real. So it's a. It's a. It's a pro. It was a process. So I'll kind of go through the story, the background of it. So I told you, I get to college. I don't. I had been raised in the church. My mom comes from the Church of Living God, PGT Nation. Raised in the church, always get to college. And I can't really explain stuff, but I'm meeting professors that are like, well, you can be a Christian and do what you want to do, kind of. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, you can't answer these questions. Cause that's not what the faith's supposed to be. You can be a Christian and give in to whatever you want to. You know, as long as you do some community service, you good. And so for me, it was like, oh, okay. You know what I'm saying? I can have both of these things in a way. And so I just really fell off. It was a convenient gospel. Like this alternative gospel that some of my professors were giving me was very convenient for somebody who want to live that football player lifestyle and do what they want to do. So I really just became the king of sinners, really. I mean, I have friends that look at me now like, you can't really be serious about this stuff. And I'm like, I'm serious. I mean this. But I don't. I don't. I understand why they would feel that way.

[Co-Host]

You're like. Cause I know how I was back in the day.

[Justin Gibbony]

Exactly. So I go down to Atlanta. I'm a young attorney, you know, and it's Atlanta. I'm just enjoying the times, right? I'm going to all the places I shouldn't be going, all that stuff. And my wife, now, we were dating, but I wasn't, you know, I wasn't doing right. I was all over the place. So two things I would say really turned me to. I think God really dealt with me in two ways. I remember one night, it was. I want to say it was the night before Halloween. I had gone out with my friends, drinking, end up almost getting a dui. So I'm sitting in the back of the police car, like, how did I end up here?

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

What am I doing? I mean, like, this is. This is serious. Because I'm about to start worrying. This is right before. This is right before we won the campaign.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

So this could have been news or anything. I'm sitting in the back of a police car. So that happened. And then over time, I was just getting sloppy. You know, my girlfriend at the time caught me in several situations, and I thought it was over. And what hurt me was when you hurt somebody that's a good person. And I'm like, man, I hurt somebody that actually cared about me because I was being selfish. And I had all the justifications for it until that moment. And God just worked on my heart, gave me a second, kind of gave me a second chance, which is why we're married now. And I think those two things, you know, among other things, were moments when I was like. And it was a process. It didn't happen all at once. Were moments when I was like, I gotta do. I gotta be a better person. And this is what. This is why that false gospel that I got in college at Vanderbilt University ain't the gospel that I knew growing up, but walked away, you know, kind.

[Co-Host]

Of walked away from. I'm interested in what you. When you say the false gospel, because I think that that is still a gospel that's still being preached to this day, is that I said I was on live with one of my friends. And we were. We were promoting this thing that we're doing in London. And I was telling her, I was like, I feel like the. The. The new Saturday brunch is Sunday mornings.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yes. That's good. Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Where it's like, now going to church is this, like, cool thing to do. You see the whole, like, get ready with me as I go to church and, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's like this thing, like, you know, my pastor, like, it's just become this, like this fad. This, like, you know, this. I don't. This trend, I guess, and it grieves me, I guess, to living in the city of Atlanta, because I think Atlanta has a particular principality about Atlanta.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah, for sure.

[Co-Host]

And it's interesting hearing a lot of the preaching that's in Atlanta, and it feels like it is this sense of this kind of false gospel. Like, go to church on. On Sunday, put I love God in my profile on my Instagram, you know, do a couple reels of church and that's enough.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

That is your salvation. That is your Christian witness. And how dangerous is that? Because it starts to leak into everything that we do, even as we move through this conversation. In politics, I think not having a true revelation of the gospel, like, how did that radically change your life? Where you were able to recognize, like, this is not the real gospel, but this is the real gospel. What was that like for you?

[Justin Gibbony]

That's a really good question. So, like I said before, I was raised in the church, so I knew the Bible. You know, I had gone over that stuff. I didn't have a meaning. You know, back in the day, you asked a question, they say, hey, you don't question God. And so I didn't have all those kind of answers. But my grandfather, who was a bishop in the church, you know, Church of Living God, he told me about the character of God and the importance of things like that. So I knew. I knew that there was a. That's. I knew there was a more holy way to go about things. So one of the issues that I have with the gospel that I got from the academy is you didn't have to be holy. Right. And to your point, it's the bad thing about those churches that go along with that stuff is those people that go to those churches think they're faithful.

[Co-Host]

Yes.

[Justin Gibbony]

It's almost like when I was in the streets, I knew I was in the streets.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

But if you think you're being faithful, that's so scary. And you. But that's scarier than somebody that say, I know I ain't doing right, but I know where to go to get right. You think you're doing right. And I think that's the. That's the key. So for me to go through something that showed me no, God is more than just somebody who affirms what you want him to do. You got to. You got to sacrifice for God because he's the only one that's going to get you out this hole. And you can't think yourself out the hole. See, I think for a lot of folks like us, we think we've outsmarted the gospel. Like, I'll take this piece and that piece, but it's old. I don't really need it. But it's like, no, you need all of that. You have not outsmarted the gospel.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Justin Gibbony]

There may be more things to learn. I think some of our elders got it wrong by not explaining things. And maybe they couldn't, you know, couldn't explain all of it, but they're still. You don't need to have a whole lot of education to get the core of what the gospel's about.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And when we move past that and just pick pieces of the gospel, take the holiness out, take the stuff that's uncomfortable out, I think we just miss the sacrifice that we have to make for God, that we are. Our lives are a sacrifice.

[Co-Host]

That's what I love.

[Justin Gibbony]

It's not just God coming down saying, no, I affirm you just be who you are. Do what you wanna do. It's like, no, it's deeper than that. And that's what it showed me. Like, look at the situation you got yourself into. So you don't wanna follow my truth. You don't wanna listen to what I say. You wanna follow your own truth. Look at you now. And that's when I was like, okay, you're right.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. I think that. I think that we have to understand that we are not. We are not good.

[Justin Gibbony]

Right.

[Co-Host]

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I think that there's, like, this false misconception. And I. And I feel like I hear it even. I can hear it in the rhetoric in. In. In politics. I think we think that we are good.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yep.

[Co-Host]

If we just. If you just let us make our own decisions, if you just let us do what we want to do, that we're going to do good. And I think that if we just really take inventory of the human race, we would see that we're not good, which is why we Need God?

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

I mean, deeply and severely. Like, we need him in everything. And I think that that was one of the pivots in my life where when I was on this porch and God radically changed my life, that was part of it. It was like, I don't need your contributions. He was like, I don't need your contributions. You need me. And all I'm asking you to do is what Roman says is present yourself as a living sacrifice. I, like, if you give me all of you, then I can do. I can work through you, but. But not in pieces. Do you know what I mean? And I think. We think we can give him pieces.

[Justin Gibbony]

Exactly. And we've been taught by the culture that our objective is to be our most authentic self. So we're mad at the elders. Y'all held me back from being my authentic. The goal is not to be your authentic. Your authentic self, like you said, is evil.

[Co-Host]

That's so good.

[Justin Gibbony]

The goal is transformation. But we don't want to listen to anybody that tells us we have to transform, because I'm already good. You're holding me back from who I am. And that's just mixing, you know, that's a lot of mixing of a lot of Western philosophy, European philosophy, with the gospel, and that's where you end up.

[Co-Host]

Yep, Yep. That's so good. Okay, so I want to talk to you about all things politics, because, like I said, we're entering into a very interesting season. And like I told you a couple days ago, I was like, I really don't know what to do. Like, there was a point in my life where I felt like I was super, super engaged into politics. And I remember because I was on fire for Jesus. And I was in Bible college, and this was my first year I could vote. And this happened to be the first year that a black president was on the ballot. And I remember how conflicting this was. It was conflicting because I come from a very educated black family who were politicians themselves or very engaged into politics, who were in sororities and fraternities. So, you know, they are. They're very aware of what's happening and engaged. And then I was going to a church, so they were very much on the. On the left side, very Democrat, very liberal type of people. And then I went to a church that was super conservative, very on the right side, very Republican. And there were these two sides screaming opposite things. Right. But all saying that they love the same God.

[Justin Gibbony]

Right.

[Co-Host]

But they were screaming opposite things. And I remember how conflicting I felt the very first time that I Had to vote because I felt like here I am as a black, you know, woman. This is my first time to vote and this is our first time to put a black man in the office.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Co-Host]

But the conf. The conflict between my faith and my, my race and all of those things were just really hard. And I kind of feel like here we are again in this same predicament. So how can we navigate through this? Number one, why is this so hard? And why does it always feel harder for black people than it does for anybody else? And how can we navigate what feels very similar to what we did with the, the election with Obama and what was. Who is it McCain? Was it Obama and McCain? I think it was Obamacain. Yeah. Like why does this feel so similar and like why is it feel so. I feel like it's heavier for black people than it is.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

I mean obviously for obvious reasons, because it's getting a candidate in. But why is like how can we navigate through this?

[Justin Gibbony]

It is. I mean it is tough. I think the reason that it's tough. There's a few reasons why it's tough and one of the reasons that it's tough is the history of this country and the fact that black people have been oppress.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And you know, my grandparents that passed away before Obama got in office, I'm not sure they would have ever Imagined it could happen. Like, that's a big. That was a huge moment.

[Megan Ashley]

They still have pictures. Do your family members still have pictures.

[Co-Host]

Of Obama in their house?

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah, a lot of people. Oh, absolutely. My grandfather had a picture when he passed away. He had a picture of Obama and a picture of MLK above his bed.

[Co-Host]

It's crazy.

[Justin Gibbony]

So it's a big deal. I mean, representation in a constitutional republic matters. And so that's why I think people feel that pressure. And we should. We should feel the pressure, but I think we have to. At the end of the day, we have to know what we believe and put politics into perspective. So that candidate, who is that historic candidate, may be the best candidate. Right. There may be somebody else who's the best candidate, but it's gotta be more so about who's going to help our neighbors the most. So the connection for me between politics and Christianity is based on the Great commandment, we need to love God and we need to love our neighbor as ourself.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

If we love our neighbor as ourselves, we have to be socially concerned about what's happening to them. Now, politics isn't the only way to help somebody, but it's a very robust way to help somebody out. So if the kids down the street can't afford lunch and you can go down to the school board meeting with your friends and say, hey, man, we need to figure out some way that we get these kids fed, you're loving your neighbor. But that was a political act. The end wasn't polit. Like your objective wasn't political. But you use politics to help somebody else. So that's what we have to think of first. There's gonna be tries to say, okay, think of your party first and just do what your party says. There are gonna be people that say, just think of. Just think of your checkbook. And I'm not saying you can't think of it at all. But for a Christian, for that to be your first thing in politics, I. That's questionable. Some people are gonna say, just think about your race, just think about your class. Those things can be factors, but we run into trouble and can be easily manipulated when that's the only reason. So I wanna see. I'm all for seeing black candidates, right? Yeah, I wanna see them. But I also know there's some. And we don't even have to talk about this race right now, but there's some that don't need to be in office. Right. Because we know that race doesn't tell us anything about somebody's character. Or anything about somebody's competence. So I still need to look at those. I need to look at their history. I need to look at what they've done and see who's the best candidate for myself.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

Now what does that look like? One way that we can go about it, and I tell people, is take the five to ten number one things that you're concerned about and look at both candidates and say, who matches up with that? So that could be where do they stand on racial justice? Where do they stand on poverty? Where do they stand on the sanctity of life? Line those up and see where they. See where they line up on those. Pray about it and then just make the best decision that you can. That part.

[Co-Host]

That part.

[Megan Ashley]

Pray. Why do we think that?

[Co-Host]

Why do we separate God from politics? Is it because of this idea of separation between church and state type of thing? Or, like, why do we skip that? Because I'm going to. I'm going to be honest with you. I am guilty of that. Like, when I pray, I am not thinking about politics and I know I need to be because it's loving my community, it's loving my neighbor, it's loving my. Like I should be thinking about that. But why is that not entering? Do you know what I'm saying?

[Justin Gibbony]

Well, I think you hit it on the head. Look, we live in what they would call a pluralistic society, which means we live amongst people with different beliefs. And we do have a separation between church and state. What that does not mean is that you don't use your values as you vote and as you think through who you're gonna support, what the separation between church and state is that the state cannot force somebody to take on a certain religion and the state cannot, can't keep somebody from exercising their religion. It has not. The founders never intended for that to mean, oh, completely throw your values that completely create who. What you believe, who you are, somehow throw those out. That's impossible. But I don't want to force nobody to be a Christian. In fact, that's not even how the religion works. Right. So in that way there's a separation. I'm not going to force you, but I am going to look to my values to decide what's important and how I'm going to help other people.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

And we've bought into the idea that we can completely separate our politics from our faith. And what ends up happening is we push aside our faith and our convictions and all we do is take on somebody else's convictions. And that's what we see a lot in the public square. Okay, let me separate my Christianity from my politics. And then the Democrats and Republicans say, okay, we'll take these values and use those which sometimes are in conflict with Christianity. Right.

[Co-Host]

So that brings me to this video that I saw of you where you gave a speech and you, I believe at the time you were in the Democratic Party. Correct. And you challenged the Democratic Party.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

And you went hard. I mean, not like in a mean way, but you, you challenged them in a very, very precise, like, clear way. And I love the things that you said when you were like, you know, like, we're not gonna let this party forget about biblical Christians. Yeah, we're not gonna let this party. Like, you were like, at, like, my, my views on certain things have not changed just because I'm a Democrat. So talk to us about that moment because you were kind of spicy and I'm sure there were probably some Democrats in there. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, guy, wait, you're.

[Megan Ashley]

Supposed to be on our team.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So tell us about that moment.

[Justin Gibbony]

So, yeah, the second time I saw. I told you I was, I was a delegate at the Democratic national convention in 2012. And then I also did in 2016. The video you're talking about is from 2016. So after 2012, I left and I was like, if I'm going to be in a party at all, I have to be distinctive. Because what I felt like was there were things going on in my party and the other party that I just didn't support, but you would have thought that I supported because nobody was speaking up. So when I ran in 2016, I got a group of friends that said, look, we're going to run and we're going to, we're not just going to run on the party's platform and say what they want us to hear. We're going to call them out for not listening to people and trying to force Christians and others to put their faith aside. Which was a big moment because I had been in what people don't realize when you've been in an establishment and the people who you work for are part of that establishment, the people who you want to get jobs from later in that establishment, it's not easy to go against that establishment. So it took some prayer for me to say, all right, I'm going to step out on faith and just do this.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

So you get. I got like a three minute speech in the. And so we're in a gym, it's hundreds of people, and I get a three minute speech as to why they should select me for the Democratic National Convention. And I said what you said, I said, look, you need to give people a faith, a seat at the table and stop expecting them to throw their faith away and their convictions away to suit you. Because I may be in a. I may be the Democrat, but I believe certain different things when it comes to the sexual ethic. I believe different things when it comes to the sanctity of life. And we still are in this party. So you need to realize we're in this party. You saw it, the crowd went wild.

[Co-Host]

They went crazy. The guy that was court was like.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yes, yeah, they went crazy. I mean the crowd, people aren't representing their faith because there's nobody who would do it. They're not doing it because they don't think it's possible. They think it's a foreclosed situation. And what we were trying to say is we can win in one of the most progressive districts in the country. In the South, I should say, not in the country, in the south with a message that says, look, we love what you're saying about workers rights, we love what you're saying about the poor. You can't shut us up and shut us out just cause we have different beliefs on other things. Yes, I'm going to treat everybody fairly. I'm not going to sit here and watch somebody, even if I disagree with their lifestyle, I'm not going to sit here and watch them be hurt. I'm going to vote for them to make sure that they can work, that they're protected, all those things. But we might have some disagreements and you need to be more accepting of those disagreements. And that's really what we were trying to say. And we ended up winning. I mean we, we won by almost double. Any other, any of the other candidates winning, running because the people felt us, even if the leadership push back against it. So after your point, after I get done, I have a state senator basically send somebody up to me and say, oh, you're going to pay for this. Right? Like, yeah, you know, the senator heard what you said, you don't pay for this. Basically. So yeah, Nan or Rock, she sent somebody to say something to me.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

And then, then somebody who's even closer to me afterwards, I hear is telling people Justin committed political suicide. Like he had a career, he had, you know, he had a future in this party. Now it's over.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

But what I don't think they realized was it was some, it was a death in some kind of ways. It was kind of a death of me saying, I'm gonna follow your rules. And that was me really saying, I'm going in a completely different direction. And hopefully it's something that's helpful to Christians. But it wasn't an easy moment. But I don't feel like God gave me a choice. I think it was something I just.

[Co-Host]

Had to do, and it took boldness, which I loved. But I think that the. The response that you got was the hearts of the people.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Do you know what I mean? That. I think that there. I think that we should be. You know, I feel like with our faith, and you can correct me if, you know, this is just my perception, but I feel like with the Christian faith, we feel like we have to be so meek and quiet that we have to let people beat up on our faith. We have to let people talk bad about us because we have. In our faith, we were supposed to turn the other cheek. Right, That's. But there. But there is a boldness that we can have. And, like, I've been going through the Book of Acts, and I just see boldness come up so much. There's just boldness. And it's not like. Especially with Stephen. Stephen's one of my favorite people in. In the Book of Acts. He's just like, I love Stephen. I'm just like, we need more Stephens, Stephen at heart. Yeah. Like, we need more Stevens. Because he had to. He had to approach accusations and slander and people lying on him and all the things. And he never used that as his opportunity to defend himself, but he defended God's word, and he did it with boldness, and he was courageous in doing it. And so I'm just like, lord, give us more people like Stephen. And so when I saw you and I saw this video of you being bold, I'm like, yes, that's like the heart of Stephen. Like, being bold and being bold and defending God in his word, not so much defending yourself or what makes you feel comfortable or what everyone else wanted you to hear. Do you know what I'm saying? And I think we need more of that in. In. In our faith. And I think that we could see more representation if we are doing that.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah. And the truth is we need that in both parties. Like, my story is the Democratic Party. But it's not to justify and say the Republicans are so much better. There needs to be people who go and do the same thing in that party, because that party has some real serious issues as well.

[Co-Host]

Correct.

[Justin Gibbony]

Right. But if you talk about Acts, Acts is a great place to go for this conversation. Because if you go to Acts 17, you see Paul in the public square a lot. So at one point in Acts 17, he goes into this place called the agora. The agora was like the marketplace of ideas. This is where the best philosophers and every. He goes to the place. Paul was the kind of cat that was like, I'm going to the place where the smartest people are, where the highest level of scrutiny is, and we just gonna get it on. And it says that he persuaded them. Like he was persuasive with them, as was his kind of mode of operation. That's just what he did. So he didn't just go in there and throw the word at people's heads and condemn them and talk. He talked to them in a way that they could understand. So he went in there. He uses. What's the Socratic method? Socrates. So he uses a Socratic method because he knows that's how they talk in that area. So he's talking to them in a way that they can understand, in a way they. In a way they respect about the gospel. Right. And he didn't persuade everybody, but he was persuading some people because he went in there thoughtfully. And I think one thing we don't do sometimes, like when I went into that arena, when I went into that gym and gave that speech, I knew there was a certain way that I had to talk to get them to hear me. But the basis and the root of what I was going to say was going to be the gospel. And sometimes I think Christians, we get really eager and we want to go get it, and sometimes we do just need to go. But sometimes we need to be thoughtful and say, what's the best approach? I'm not going to compromise my convictions, but there might be a certain angle I can take or a tone I need to have that's going to be effective in this place.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

Acts 17, Acts 19. You see that all over with Paul going, being bold, but not so bold that I'm just being offensive. And folks, man, just get out of here.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Co-Host]

Right.

[Justin Gibbony]

I'm talking to them in a way that they're going to hear and that they can appreciate to some extent.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, I love that. I. I just. The book of Acts is just my favorite. I talked to you the other day because I was telling you about kind of just how I grew up and how I, you know, saw politics just growing up. And one thing about my mom, when she got saved, she radically got saved. Like, there was no question or mistake about it. Jesus was the center of her life. I always knew. I always joke about it, but I'm being serious. I always knew that. That Christ was more important to my mother than I was. She never said it, but it was very obvious. Like, that was her focus in the center of her life. And I remember most of my life, my mom never committing to a party. I've never seen her be Republican, and I've never seen her be Democrat. I've never. But. And I. And now that I'm older, I respect her even much more now because she would always vote her values, no matter where that lined up. Sometimes it would be a Democrat, sometimes it would be a Republican, sometimes it would be an independent person, sometimes she would write names in the ballot.

[Megan Ashley]

She didn't.

[Co-Host]

She never was like, you're not going to force my hand. And so I kind of want to talk with you and you can give us some wisdom. Number one, I want to ask, why do we feel like if you are. Because what I feel like their perception is, is that if you're black, you vote Democrat. If you're a Christian, you're kind of split, but you should be Republican. And if you're white, you're probably Republican. Unless you're like. Like a Bernie fan, which I love Bernie, but like a Bernie man. And you're super liberal.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Co-Host]

So, like, what. What is that? How did we get to this place where it feels like we have to be. We have to choose one party or another all the time, no matter if we like the candidate. But I'm a Democrat, so I gotta vote Democrat.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah. It's the history of this country. So, you know, if you talk about. Let's go back to Jim Crow, it was the conservatives who were trying to stop African Americans from voting. Okay. Now, at first, the conservatives were called Dixiecrats. They were in the Democratic Party, but they were conservative Democrats. At some point, they actually go and switch to the Republican Party. Along with that, you get JFK, gets Martin Luther King Jr. Out of jail. When he gets Martin Luther King Jr. Out Of jail, that endears him to a good portion of African Americans. Because before that, African Americans were voting. But Daddy King, Martin Luther King, King's father, would vote for Republicans. So they used to go back and forth those two things got black people kind of in the Democratic Party. And then at that point, the Republicans, once they. At a point where they saw they weren't getting the black vote, you know, the races and all that stuff, they were just letting them do their thing.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

Right. So that's where it comes from. So it actually. It's not illogical. Right. That you're there for sure. As far as the Republicans and Christians, you had the moral majority. And the moral majority was a big part of the culture war. They're the ones that are coming out, speaking out against, you know, speaking out for the sanctity of life, talking about sexual ethics. And they were really pushing that, while the secular progressives were the ones pushing against that. So that's why folks, especially white evangelicals, like, you gotta be a Republican if you're gonna be a Christian, not acknowledging, well, what about social justice? What about not allowing people to vote at that point? So black people started to feel like, I'm not giving my vote to a party that don't want me to even vote. Why would that make sense now? That's the history of it. It's a little bit more complicated and a little more muddled now. Cause the sides are. They switch a little bit and they move here and there. That's generally where that comes from. But I like your mom's point of view. I don't think one of the problems that we have is people make their party part of their identity.

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Justin Gibbony]

Right. And when you make your party part of your identity, you stop questioning the party.

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Justin Gibbony]

Whatever side they take, even if it's on a moral issue, you start to take that. Now, neither party is perfect. You can. I don't tell people what party to be in. I've been the Democrat most of my life, but I have a lot of issues, and I've taken on the Democratic Party, too. And I vote for Republicans when I feel like it.

[Co-Host]

Right.

[Justin Gibbony]

So what I tell people is, if you're going to be in the party. If you're independent and decide not to do it like your mom did, I respect that. If you're going to be in a party, because there can be some practical benefits to that, too. I don't think that makes you unfaithful being in either party. Like if you choose not to be, if you choose to be a Republican or a Democrat. I don't think that in itself makes you unfaithful. But you better speak up. You better not go along with everything that they do. That's the part to me that makes you unfaithful.

[Co-Host]

Being silent.

[Justin Gibbony]

Being silent on issues when you know your party's in the wrong and you're just going along with it.

[Co-Host]

Okay, because we saw that a lot, a lot in 2016.

[Justin Gibbony]

In fact, you can get canceled for not for speaking up. That's. I mean, so people are scared to do it. Right.

[Co-Host]

I was so. And you can tell me what you, what your experience was because obviously you're, you know, your knee deep into it. But I was so disappointed with a lot of. And I'm not trying to bring up no trauma, y'all, but I'm just, just because we back here again in 2024. But I was just so kind of disappointed in a lot of the white evangelical Christians that I so admired in various different forms, from singers to preachers to athletes to all types of people that were very silent in on certain things and then very vocal about who they were supporting. What is the right way? I don't. And maybe there isn't a right way. But how can we help both blacks who were kind of hurt by that because we're coming up on another election season where this is going to probably bring up trauma and triggers from 2016. So how can us as black people, how can we navigate through that where we're not operating from a fence and like being wounded by what happened? Where we can operate with love and forgiveness and grace. But then also, how can we help our non melanated friends who have been silent and who feel like, well, I don't, you know, if I say something, then you're mad. I don't know what to say. I don't know how to say, you know, how can we both navigate through this? That's going to be pleasing to the Lord.

[Justin Gibbony]

That's a good question. That's a heavy question.

[Co-Host]

I'm sorry.

[Justin Gibbony]

No, it's good. I mean, it needs to be asked. I mean, we obviously could spend a whole episode on it. I think one thing is people on both sides have to be honest about the history. So as Christians, we're not to bear false witness.

[Co-Host]

Correct.

[Justin Gibbony]

We have to care about the truth. When we look at history, American history, we cannot romanticize it as some people on the right do to make us look better.

[Co-Host]

Okay.

[Justin Gibbony]

We have to be honest about how bad history that some of that history was.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And it wasn't that long ago. I mean, Jim crow ends in 65, 68. Somewhere around that.

[Co-Host]

Yeah. That's not that long ago.

[Justin Gibbony]

Less than. That's less than 20 years before I was born.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

That's not that long ago.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And so I think people, especially white evangelicals, have to deal with that and not be worried about that. It makes them look bad. Be worried about. You're already. Your works are dirty. Right. Like you already. Not all that. None of us are right. So just be humble.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And accept that things went wrong and that your grandmother, whoever actually did things, or your grandfather, whoever, accepted things that they shouldn't have.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

There's redemption for that. There's grace for that. Right. So I think that's one part of it. Like. And then. So once we deal with the issue, how do we fix it? How do we say, okay, racism happened. It wasn't that long ago. It still lingers. It's still in some of our systems. It's still in some of our institutions. How do I use my influence in white spaces or in evangelical spaces to fix some of that for African Americans? I think we have to go back to the civil rights generation's point of view, because we have a lot of influencers that all they want to do is make everything about race.

[Co-Host]

And that's dangerous.

[Justin Gibbony]

Very dangerous. There's a lot of things that deal with race. Everything ain't about race. Every single problem that we have in our community can't be blamed on somebody else. We gotta take responsibility for something. And that's like if you go read Nanny Helen Burrows, civil rights activist, all this. She used to tell black people, no, there's stuff we gotta focus on what we can do for ourselves. And yes, they did did us dirty, and we need to fix that too. But don't use that as an excuse to push away your agency. Agency means what your decisions matter.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And if your decisions matter, sometimes you gotta focus on those decisions too.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

So. And then we have to believe that change can happen. One of the most beautiful things about the civil rights movement was they refused to hate the people that hated them. So any influencer that's telling us to hate folks on the other side, we gotta push that away and say it's wrong. No, I can't respond like that. I don't know. You know, these are people who are still dealing with the human condition. There's certain parts of MAGA America that the. That their life expectancy is going down.

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

That they're dying of what they call these deaths of despair, suicides, drug overdoses at alarming rates, and do we care?

[Co-Host]

Wow.

[Justin Gibbony]

So you'll hear people say, well, they didn't care about us when it happened during the crack epidemic. And sometimes that's true. Are you going to return that?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

I think the civil rights movement would say, yeah, they didn't care about us during the crack epidemic. I'm gonna care about them now.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

Right. That's the Christian response.

[Co-Host]

The Christian response.

[Justin Gibbony]

The response we hear from a lot of. I won't say a lot, too many black influencers is, let's get them back.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

You know what I'm saying? Let's completely shut them off. We just can't do that. I get where that comes from. I've been there before. That can't be our answer. While at the same time, we hold them accountable. Right. So the civil rights movement was saying, I can't return the hate that you give me, but I will hold you accountable while also having a certain compassion for what you may be going through, too.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

That is. That's otherworldly. Like, nobody's saying that today.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

But that's. That's the gospel.

[Co-Host]

That's good. I think that. I think that that's super, super, super helpful because I remember how I felt in 2016, and my heart was growing very hard.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Towards people who did not look like me.

[Justin Gibbony]

Yeah.

[Co-Host]

Like, I was. It was hard for me to have. And I had. At that time, I had such a wide range of friendships, from LGBTQ + to white to Muslim to all. I mean, just all types of friends at the time. And it was really hard for me to be okay with a lot of my white friends. And I think part of not engaging in politics and not being informed and being like, I don't want. Justin, when I tell you I used to keep CNN on all the time. I just would have it on my phone. I would listen to it all the time. Every show, every. I would just listen to it all. Like, I love listening to all things politics all the time. And my heart grew so hard that I went in the opposite direction, and I just stopped engaging at all. I stopped being informed. I stopped wanting to Know, because I'm like, I don't want to get to that place where my heart gets hard again. And so how can we engage into this political election this year, into this presidential election? One, how can we be informed? Like, where are the right places to go? Because like you said, you said, write down your values, and then what candidate lines up with those values? Well, what if I listen to. Just listening to them speak? There might be one that automatically. But how do we really know what their politics are? Like, where do we go? How do we get engaged and get informed so that we can, like, you know, show up as Christians and be a participant in this. In this election?

[Justin Gibbony]

So the first thing. That's an excellent question. The first thing that we have to do is get better information.

[Co-Host]

Okay?

[Justin Gibbony]

So I want to say this very loudly. If somebody just watches Fox News or just watches msnbc, you're misinformed because you're only getting one side of the conversation. You're not getting the best of both arguments. And sometimes why we think the other side is so stupid and nothing they say makes sense is because we're listening to the worst arguments on either side. So I would diversify my sources and what the an campaign calls, that is media hygiene.

[Co-Host]

Okay?

[Justin Gibbony]

There's this thing called confirmation bias, which means we like to go to sources of information that confirm what we already believe.

[Co-Host]

We do that at church, too. Hello.

[Justin Gibbony]

There you go.

[Co-Host]

Hello.

[Justin Gibbony]

But the truth of the matter is, if we want to get closest to the truth, we need to hear both sides of the story. We need to hear other people. And guess what? I think there's a lot of people got a lot of issues in the Republican Party and conservatives, but guess what? I also know when I looked a little harder, there are some people over there that are honest and that are working in good faith and that are intelligent. Now, I still may disagree with them on some things, but if you think everybody on the other side is stupid and not working in good faith, that's a you problem, not a them problem. Because there are people over there that you may disagree with, may come to the wrong conclusions. And the same thing with Democrats, like, if you're more conservative, you need to find some sources on the left that you say at least they're intellectually honest. I may disagree with them, but they're trying to explain the good that they're trying to get. So, I mean, as far as sources, Breaking Points is a good podcast. I'm going to tell you, I wouldn't. I wouldn't really go to cable news.

[Co-Host]

Cable news, I just don't do.

[Justin Gibbony]

Cable news is set up just to get you coming back in to say what you. To say what they know you want to hear.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And to get you in rage.

[Co-Host]

Entertainment. Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

Any talking head or anybody who keeps you in a constant state of rage, turn it off.

[Co-Host]

Ooh, that's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

Because when you're enraged. Yeah, when you're enraged, number one, you're.

[Co-Host]

Not thinking, that's so good.

[Justin Gibbony]

And when you're enraged, you're easily manipulated. Right.

[Co-Host]

That's so good.

[Justin Gibbony]

If anybody who over and over telling you they hate you, they hate you, they're out to get you. There may be people on the other side that don't have your best intentions in mind. I'm not trying to act like it's all good.

[Co-Host]

It's not.

[Justin Gibbony]

But you don't need to hear that every day because you'll start thinking that it's every single person on the other side. Anybody who does that is what you call a demagogue. And they're not. That's not somebody that you need to listen to. So I would turn off cable news. I would go to spots like breaking points, counterpoints. Unheard is a good one. Unheard. U N H E R D Free Press. There's a lot of. There's a lot of different sources. But the reason I like those sources is they bring very thoughtful people from both sides to have conversations.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that.

[Justin Gibbony]

And then I would just say this. When you have to make a decision, understand that if you're a Republican and you hear Trump talk bad about immigrants and stuff like you can't defend it, you gotta say, that's wrong.

[Co-Host]

Yep.

[Justin Gibbony]

And that was one of my issues with a lot of conservative evangelicals was.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, vote how you vote.

[Justin Gibbony]

But you gotta call that out and you can't defend it just cause you wanna win this election.

[Co-Host]

Thank you.

[Justin Gibbony]

And you know, and for Democrats, I would say, look, when somebody, you know, when somebody talks about a moral issue in a way, or talks bad about Christians for their moral beliefs or, you know, or acts like our views of sexuality or whatever are always about bigotry, you got to say something. Because not everybody that has those beliefs is doing it for those reasons. And if you listen to them, there's a better explanation. And I can still love you and disagree with you.

[Co-Host]

Correct.

[Justin Gibbony]

But you got a lot of folks on the left, you know, and a lot of, you know, circles that I run in that will listen to that said about Christians, come to church and say nothing.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And just let it go. So I just think you have to speak up once you choose. Once you choose a side, so to speak, and then understand that, pray, line up the issue, you know, line up which issues are important to you. Make a decision and let it go. It's one vote. It's an important vote, but you're not responding. If you do the best you can and you're thoughtful and you're prayerful, you're not responsible for everything that person does. Now, you can't just defend them. Right. But make your vote, do it faithfully and thoughtfully and then just let it go. And guess what? Your public witness is more than that. Just one vote.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

There's stuff that you can. You can be mentoring kids. You mentoring a kid is probably going to be more impactful than that vote you gave. Now still vote. It's important.

[Co-Host]

And get.

[Justin Gibbony]

But there's more. Exactly. But there's more impactful things you can do, especially on a local level, on a community level, that are part of your public witness Vote and let it go. You ain't got to feel bad about it. Don't let nobody shame you about how you voted. You. You tell people. You don't tell people. If you don't want to tell nobody, don't tell them.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

And then move on and keep trying to do some work that. I love that because we just make too much. It's an important vote. I don't want to downplay it, but at the same time, we make too much out of one national vote.

[Co-Host]

That's good.

[Justin Gibbony]

When we could have a lot of other ways of influencing our community.

[Co-Host]

I think. Can you give us those lists one more time? So it was unheard.

[Justin Gibbony]

So it was breaking point.

[Co-Host]

Breaking point.

[Justin Gibbony]

Counterpoints, unheard. The Hill Rising is a good one. All these are like podcasts. Free press.

[Co-Host]

The Free Press. Yeah. I think that what I want.

[Justin Gibbony]

And the Pour Over.

[Co-Host]

Oh, the Pour Over. Is that another podcast?

[Justin Gibbony]

The Pour over just gives you news. So they'll send you like a newsletter. Things that.

[Co-Host]

Awesome. Yeah, I. We'll put those. We'll put those in the list of. On the description so that you guys will have it. I think what I want to encourage people with is. Is to be. I want to encourage Christians to be Christians. I want you to be engaged in your community, and I know I need to do better at that, like being engaged in your local elections and things that are happening locally. I feel like for a lot of times we only want to get engaged when it's like the big the big vote, the presidential vote. But there are. There are elections that are happening throughout the year that we can be engaged in. So, number one, I want us to be Christians and care about our community. Like I said when I read in the Book of Acts, they were community people. They did life together. They prayed together. They took care of one another. They made sure that each need was met for everybody. And so I would want to encourage Christians to be Christians, right? And then I want to encourage you, like, take the Lord, like, invite the Lord in on everything. Like, consider him in all your ways. That's what the Bible says. Consider him in everything. So even how you vote, consider the Lord. When you're going into the ballot, take the Lord with you. Don't leave your brain or your ballot or your beliefs in the car. Take it with you. The Bible says that the Lord gives us wisdom generously. He just pours it out to us if we ask for it. And so like you said, like, like we should be praying about, you know, lord, lead me to the right decision, because I want to be honorable. Like, I want to honor you in my decisions. I want to honor you in the way that I vote. So help me, guide me. Show me the platforms that I need to listen to. Show me the platforms that I need to stop listening to. Maybe I need to stop listening to cnn. Maybe I need to stop listening to fox. Maybe I need to stop listening to msnbc. You do stop listening all. So you know what I'm saying? Like, ask the Lord. Like, really invite him into every space of your life, including politics. I just think that this is going to be super helpful for people because we need help. Like, I think. I don't think that the. The solution is to not be engaged. I think the solution is to be humble and to say, hey, I actually don't know what to do. And that's where I was at. I told you on the phone. I was like, I actually don't know what is happening. Like, I don't know where to start, how to be engaged, what to do. But I usually end all of my podcasts with a journal prompt because I like, I think we have so much information coming at us all the time, from reels to podcasts to sermons to TikTok and all the things. We're consuming so much opinion and information all day. But having a journal prompt gives people a moment to just kind of reflect and to process what they just heard. And so I love doing these journal prompts at the end of every podcast. So what would be a good Prompt, Journal, prompt for them to kind of process. And, you know, just as they think through this election season.

[Justin Gibbony]

That's good. Number one, just realize Jesus isn't on the ballot. Right. And that's not to say that both sides are equal, both candidates are equal. I'm not saying that at all. I don't tell you who to vote for. There's big differences, and this is gonna be consequential. But we do have to remember that neither party is a pure application of the gospel. And sometimes we try to pretend like our side, you know, our side is really the Christian side. I can name 20 things about each side that are so far from Christian that you would never wanna put the stamp of Jesus on any of them. So once we. And the reason I'm saying do that is that brings a certain level of humility. That means that even when I disagree with somebody, I can disagree with them in a way that is constructive and that's charitable.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

Right.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

And then I can understand that nobody is. Just their vote.

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

People are more than how they voted. So whether they vote for Trump or Kamala, and you think it's a ridiculous opinion, and they might have a ridiculous opinion. They're struggling with the human experience. They did what they thought was right. Now, how do I build a relationship with somebody aside from politics?

[Co-Host]

Yeah.

[Justin Gibbony]

How do I care about you? Don't let me say this. Don't lose any friends or family members over this election. It's just not worth it.

[Co-Host]

It's not.

[Justin Gibbony]

So I hope that's a good.

[Co-Host]

Yeah, that's good. That's good. Justin, thank you. I hope that we can have you back to help us process because you got us to the voting. Now there's after the voting that we're gonna have to navigate through. And so we can have you back to kind of just help us in stay engaged, stay involved, stay informed so that we can navigate through, living through whatever the results are from this election. But thank you.

[Justin Gibbony]

So we'd love to come back.

[Co-Host]

Yes.

[Justin Gibbony]

Love your ministry. God bless you.

[Co-Host]

Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for the Ann campaign. Thank you for the work that you're doing and just being the truth and being the light in some dark spaces. So we appreciate you. Thank you.

[Megan Ashley]

All right, guys, this is a really good episode. Make sure you watch this, Share it with some friends. Like, if you guys are having.

[Co-Host]

Like, watch this with friends. If you guys are having some dialogue over what to do in this election, this is a great episode to send to someone, send to a family member and yeah, just kind of think it through and just remember that to consider the Lord and invite him into everything. Pray about everything. The Bible says pray without ceasing. So pray about everything. And yeah. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode. We'll see you next time.

[Megan Ashley]

See ya.

[Co-Host]

Hey you guys, before you go, I just wanted to say how grateful I am for your love and support. If you've enjoyed this episode, please take a moment and share it with a friend or family member. If you could do me one huge favor, head over to Apple Podcasts and leave a five star rating and a heartfelt review. It helps others just like you discover the podcast. You guys, let's continue to spread the inspiration. For more about me and the podcast, visit www.themaganashley.com. until next time, stay encouraged that you are so valued and so loved.