EP 84: Don't Try This Alone

Summary

Podcast Summary: In Totality with Megan Ashley

EP 84: Don't Try This Alone (August 19, 2025)

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Overview

This heartfelt and dynamic episode of "In Totality" centers on the deep necessity of community—particularly for Christians navigating pain, trauma, and purpose. Host Megan Ashley is joined by her friend, author, and speaker Toni Collier, whose new book, "Don't Try This Alone," explores the messy, redemptive, and holy journey of healing in community. Their candid, often humorous conversation probes the dangers of isolation, the battle against shame, the power of vulnerability, and practical wisdom for building authentic support systems, especially when one has been deeply hurt. Through transparent storytelling and biblical grounding, Megan and Toni encourage listeners to reject self-sufficiency and let others—and God—walk with them through life's hardest moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Necessity of Authentic Community

• Vulnerability as a Weapon: Toni and Megan agree that real healing requires letting people see your mess and struggles, not just your victories.
  • “This is a weapon to the enemy. When the enemy wants to remind you of what you’ve done, you’ll be like, oh, I already know. I told everybody already.” —Toni (26:39)
• Jesus Modeled Community: The conversation highlights how even Jesus, who didn’t need anyone, chose to do life with flawed disciples, emphasizing we’re not designed for isolation.
  • “If you’re not willing to name it, then you can’t heal it. Name it: what happened to you that keeps you from letting people in?” —Toni (81:39)

2. Concrete Joy vs. Counterfeit Joy

• Distinguishing Genuine Joy: Toni contrasts counterfeit joy (rooted in circumstances and achievements) with concrete joy rooted in God’s unchanging character, referencing her own trials.
  • “Counterfeit joy is that your happiness is rooted in everything humanity can give you… A concrete joy is deeply embedded in the holiness of who God is, which never changes.” —Toni (17:06)

3. The Role of Shame & Honesty

• Shame Isolates; Honesty Heals: They discuss how shame breeds secrecy and isolation—tools the enemy uses to stunt believers’ growth—while confession and honesty spark freedom.
  • “If you try to block out your past, you will not see redemption.” —Toni (26:13)
• Owning Brokenness: Toni shares raw aspects of her story (sexual brokenness, addiction, spiritual manipulation) and how naming these things fosters true healing and gives God space to redeem.

4. Healthy Community Requires Holiness & Boundaries

• Biblical Foundation: Community is not just emotional but a scriptural mandate, modeled from the Trinity down through biblical figures (Jesus and the disciples, Ruth and Naomi, Moses and Aaron).
• Boundaries are Essential: Not everyone deserves equal access—Jesus himself had inner circles (e.g., Peter, James, John) and broader circles, and so should we.
  • “He modeled what it looks like to have boundaries, to bring people close, to keep people at bay, and to still be kind.” —Toni (70:17)

5. The Four S’s of Healthy Community

Toni breaks down Dr. Curt Thompson's “Four S’s” as fundamental needs in relationships and healthy community:

• Seen: Feeling truly noticed and valued.
• Soothed: Receiving comfort, not just advice.
• Safe: Trusting that your story will be held with care.
• Secure: Knowing you belong even with your flaws. - “We’re not creating safe spaces… we should be being a safe person so that we can create safety for people.” —Toni (77:07)

6. Practical Insights on Building & Maintaining Community

• Community Before Crisis: Toni attributes her survival and thriving post-betrayal to having already established deep friendships before crisis struck.
  • “I was on the offense, not the defense. When tragedy hit, I did not have to muster up a group of people to help me. They were right there, figuratively and literally.” —Toni (39:04)
• Ask for Help—Accept Help: Both women talk about how hard it was to let others serve and support them, but how opening up to this was crucial in their healing.
  • “I think it takes a level of faith and a level of humility… I actually have humility. I’m humble enough to accept the help.” —Toni (64:11)
• Honest Conversations Grow Friendships: Be upfront about needs and desires for deeper friendships; don’t assume intimacy, but invite it with clarity and grace.

7. Witness & Impact: Healing in Community

• Being a Living Testimony: Responding to public pain with grace and healthy boundaries can be a witness to believers and nonbelievers alike of God’s redemptive power.
• Overflowing Support: Sharing even the embarrassing, messy details of your story gives others courage to bring their darkness into the light—and find freedom.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The joy of the Lord is my strength.” —Toni (13:41)
• “When you return with just the intention to be a servant, not accepting your sonship, that’s a kind of false humility—the Lord exposed my heart on that.” —Megan Ashley (19:38)
• “Jesus was betrayed, and he did not allow the betrayal to keep him from loving the others.” —Toni (41:03)
• “If you act like you don’t need people, you’re working against your design.” —Toni (81:14)
• “You gotta let people love you. They’ll cover you. They will cover your babies when you can’t.” —Toni (64:01)
• “Shame is the scheme of the enemy for sure. That’s why… we have to expose [secrets] and put them out into the light.” —Toni (31:26)
• On humility in friendships: “I will never forget what it looks like to be humble enough to say, ‘you’re right’.” —Toni (56:00)
• The Four S's: “Be seen, soothed, safe, and secure… We need safe people, that’s what really matters.” —Toni (75:43–77:07)

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Timestamps of Key Moments

• Authenticity & Joy through Suffering: 09:31–14:41
• Concrete vs. Counterfeit Joy: 16:58–17:48
• The Impact of Shame: 25:53–27:23
• Jesus’ Example in Community: 39:04–43:40
• Letting People Love You—the Four S’s: 74:41–79:17
• Practical Journal Prompt: 81:39

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Journal Prompt from Toni’s Book

“What happened to you that keeps you from letting people in? Name it, because if you’re not willing to name it, then you can’t heal it.” (81:39)

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Conclusion

Megan and Toni’s honest, hilarious, and deeply spiritual conversation makes clear: We are not meant to navigate pain, betrayal, healing, or faith journeys alone. Their stories reveal the transformative power of gospel-centered community, gracious boundaries, and the humility to not just give, but receive love. For anyone who has been wounded by relationships, church, or shame—this episode offers hope that God redeems and restores, not despite others, but often through them.

Listen for:

• Biblical reminders that even Jesus had (and needed) close friends
• Candid confessions about the difficulty of forgiveness and humility after betrayal
• Practical advice for building and maintaining authentic relationships

Don’t Try This Alone—your healing, joy, and purpose are found not in isolation, but among God’s people, in totality.

Transcript

[Tony]

This Back to School Season Spend less.

[Megan Ashley]

On your kids with Amazon I remember when my niece's mindfulness journal cost more.

[Tony]

Than my own therapy session on Amazon.

[Megan Ashley]

The same journal and the markers to color in it are a fraction of the price.

[Tony]

Spend less.

[Megan Ashley]

Breathe easier.

[Tony]

So remember, with Amazon's low back to.

[Megan Ashley]

School prices, just spend less on your kids because every dollar you don't spend.

[Tony]

On them is a dollar you haven't spent on them.

[Audible Narrator]

Searching for a romantic summer getaway escape with Rich Girl Summer, the new Audible original from Lily Chiu the exquisitely talented Philippa Sue. Returning to narrate her fifth Lily Chu title, this time, Philippa is joined by her real life husband, Steven pasquale. Set in Toronto's wealthy cottage country, a.k.a. the Hamptons of Canada, Rich Girl Summer follows the story of Valerie, a down on her luck event planner posing as a socialite's long lost daughter while piecing together the secrets surrounding a mysterious family and falling deeper and deeper in love with the impossibly hard to read and infuriatingly handsome family assistant Nico. Caught between pretending to belong and unexpectedly finding where she truly fits in, Valerie learns her summer is about to get far more complicated than she ever planned. She's in over her head and head over heels. Listen to Rich Girl Summer now on audible. Go to audible.com richgirlsomer what's up fam?

[Megan Ashley]

Listen, if you've been blessed by In Totality the podcast, then I want to personally invite you to go deeper by joining our Patreon community called the Village. Every Tuesday morning, the Village members get early access to the full episode of the podcast two days before it drops publicly on YouTube. So while everyone else is waiting, you're already soaking it in. But that's just the beginning. As a Village member, you get exclusive access to the In Totality docu series. It' the Scenes look at how I walk on my faith in real life. No filters, no fluff, just real moments of me trusting the Lord, processing life and growing in truth. We also do live book club zoom calls where we read and grow together in the Word. I'm not just talking at you worth walking through it together, asking questions, wrestling through scriptures, learning to follow Christ more fully. You know, like that Romans 12. You'll also get bonus content, extra conversations with podcast guests that that go even deeper, plus moments that didn't make it to the episode but were just too good not to share. And one more thing. When you join the Village, you get first access to merch before it drops public. So if you love the message and you want to rep the movement, you'll get first dibs every time. But more than the content, the village is about community. It's a safe place for believers to connect and grow and be reminded that you're not doing this work. Walk alone. You're a part of something real. We're building something special, and we would love for you to be a part. So hit pause. Go to www.patreon.com Megan Ashley and join today and I'll meet you there. That's not what I was trying to repent for.

[Tony]

Okay. Do you have something else? I'm ready. If I'm going to do what the Lord has called me to do, I'm going to do it being authentically who he's made me to be.

[Megan Ashley]

The what?

[Tony]

I apologize to the Patreons and I think about Jesus and the disciples. He could have done it all by himself.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yep.

[Tony]

He decided to bring us in.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that you said that. And you want to know why? I love that you said that.

[Tony]

Why?

[Megan Ashley]

What's up, you guys? Welcome back to another episode of In Totality. Thank you for joining us again for another episode. Listen, I have a very special guest who is. Who is my friend. I love her. She's been here before. You guys actually love her. Welcome back. Toni Collier.

[Tony]

I know I have to do it on the front end. You know what I'm saying? I also think we need to get it out. Daddy God, Daddy, Daddy, God. Daddy God done not.

[Megan Ashley]

You know that you. You changed lives. You changed prayer lives forever because of daddy God. Really? Do you know, do you know that you are still one of my top, like, top people are like, please bring her back.

[Tony]

Bring that little crazy girl back. Just bring her back in.

[Megan Ashley]

Call her daddy. God changed lives. It changed lot. It forever changed this platform.

[Tony]

That sweet woman in my course group will never know because it was Daddy God. That's the first time I heard this sweet little old lady. And I said, wow. But it's intimate.

[Megan Ashley]

And literally there are times where I have abba in my heart.

[Tony]

You're right.

[Megan Ashley]

And what comes out is I'm like.

[Tony]

Daddy, we're redeeming the word Daddy.

[Megan Ashley]

We are redeeming daddy.

[Tony]

Because for a second there was nasty, but not anymore. It's whole.

[Megan Ashley]

You're redeeming daddy.

[Tony]

Whoa, a prophet. Just kidding. This is so fun.

[Megan Ashley]

I love, like, genuinely love being around you. I'm not even joking. And I don't see. I think you wouldn't have.

[Tony]

You didn't have to say it.

[Megan Ashley]

And I think you know my personality. Enough to know you're pretty direct.

[Tony]

And so that was true.

[Megan Ashley]

I really enjoy being around you.

[Tony]

I like it.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, when we went to dinner, that was so fun.

[Tony]

Oh, that was fun. That was. Sushi was so great.

[Megan Ashley]

We need to go back. That wagyu on the.

[Tony]

It changed me.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

It.

[Tony]

The little slivers. It's like butter.

[Megan Ashley]

Why can't we just get through it?

[Tony]

I don't know what happened. All right, we're in.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Okay.

[Tony]

Jesus loves us.

[Megan Ashley]

I told you before we started that I had to publicly repent.

[Tony]

Oh, yes, I did, remember? And I don't know what for.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And you had, like, a list of things. I was like, whoa.

[Tony]

Well, you hit me a couple times, and it was harder than you. I think you. What you meant. You know what I mean?

[Megan Ashley]

We were at better together. And me and Jackie are cracking up laughing with Tony because Tony's hilarious.

[Tony]

Thank you.

[Megan Ashley]

And my expression of funny, you're like, this is black friends. Yeah, I am. I am that.

[Tony]

I mean, it is wild.

[Megan Ashley]

So Tony's like, ow. Like.

[Tony]

And Jackie's, like, unfazed. Y' all hit each other. I'm like, I don't know if I want to be a part of this. I don't know. And it's crazy because y' all love it. I'm like, oh, my gosh. Wait. Wait a minute. I am fragile, and I'm bright skin. I bruise easy. I. Please.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, my God. He was like, that actually hurts.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, that's not what I was trying to repent for anyway, girl.

[Tony]

Okay. Do you have something else? I'm ready.

[Megan Ashley]

I gave Sammy candy.

[Tony]

You did give my child candy. I'm so hard and so fast.

[Megan Ashley]

Well, he.

[Tony]

You don't even ask.

[Megan Ashley]

I. Because he pointed to the candy as if it was a normal thing. And I was like, I'll give you whatever you want.

[Tony]

And you slid in my. First of all, he's only three. He's not processing sugar. Well, he was up at night, and.

[Megan Ashley]

I never do that. I'm such a responsible.

[Tony]

No, honestly. He's so cute, though. I kind of sort of do give him.

[Megan Ashley]

What was I supposed to do?

[Tony]

I know. It is kind of.

[Megan Ashley]

We were in the middle of a Bible study, and I really didn't really.

[Tony]

Like you at first, and so this was a good train.

[Megan Ashley]

This is my good way in.

[Tony]

And I appreciate that.

[Megan Ashley]

However I am.

[Tony]

It would have been good to ask.

[Megan Ashley]

It would have been. I'm so sorry.

[Tony]

And that's okay.

[Megan Ashley]

And he didn't sleep that night.

[Tony]

This sucker we got. I was like, oh, I gotta go. Everybody remember. I had to leave. He has to go to bed.

[Megan Ashley]

I didn't even know that you left.

[Tony]

He was on 100,000 million. Oh, no. That's it.

[Megan Ashley]

And he only had like. Okay, to be fair, guys, I only gave him three little pieces. Skittles.

[Tony]

You gave him three.

[Megan Ashley]

And I took the bag back.

[Tony]

Okay, okay. And you gave him chips.

[Megan Ashley]

Well, because that's what.

[Tony]

The chips are fine.

[Megan Ashley]

That's what he wanted.

[Tony]

All right. Three is not crazy. But he little.

[Megan Ashley]

I know. So that sugar just filled his whole.

[Tony]

And he never had it, so it shocked him as much as it shocked me. I said, are you okay? He's like, I don't know. I don't know. But I can't go to sleep. He's never had candy you gave him.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm sorry.

[Tony]

It's okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, now he's gonna see Skittles and be like, the next time you see.

[Tony]

A Skittle, it's literally over.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm so thankful.

[Tony]

And thank you for repenting, honestly, because I know.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm sorry. I never do. I. It literally plagued me all night. I was like, I can't believe I gave offer up. And he doesn't look three. So that's another thing.

[Tony]

He in the 5T clothes.

[Megan Ashley]

He looks.

[Tony]

He is in the 5T clothes. And I. And I want to be honest, she says, surely, surely, he can handle it. He was up all night.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm sorry.

[Tony]

That's okay.

[Megan Ashley]

I do love you, and I'm so happy that you're here, and you are here, because this is so exciting.

[Tony]

This is an exciting season.

[Megan Ashley]

This is actually really exciting. And I love that. If you guys aren't following Tony on social media, you need to follow her on social media. Number one, she's hilarious. But number two, I just love your vulnerability. And people say that I'm vulnerable, but you are vulnerable in a way.

[Tony]

Yeah. I'm telling all my business from the.

[Megan Ashley]

Top to the bottom out there.

[Tony]

I don't have anything else to lose. You know, I've already lost enough. And at this point, I'm like, if I'm going to do what the Lord has called me to do, I'm going to do it being authentically who he's made me to be. Like, I don't want to play church. I don't want to play healing. I don't want to play religion. I just don't want. I don't have enough energy. It actually takes me more energy to be someone I'm not than to Just be like, this is what you get.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And this is where I'm at.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And I just like it.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, it looks like you do.

[Tony]

Freeing.

[Megan Ashley]

It actually looks like you enjoy your life.

[Tony]

I do. And I have great. Like, I have the most fun. I honestly feel like I'm aging backwards. I'm really, truly. I'm. I play more, like, literally, the more comfortable I get with just being 100% myself. Funny, loud, crazy, honest, vulnerable, raw. The more. The more I'm enjoying my life. I love that because I have not, like. And the people that come into my life, I know that they're there for me because you're. Because they're actually getting that version. And so they're like, oh, I want to be her friend. It's like, well, you have signed up for a really crazy situation, but wow. But, you know, you know, on the front end, what you're going to get. And we're going to go to the fancy sushi restaurant. I'm going to be hollering, screaming at.

[Megan Ashley]

The table, and I love every minute of.

[Tony]

And that's what I'm trying to say. You chose to be here.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm here for it. I can't wait to the next date.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

When. When Jackie's like, Tony's coming, I'm like, I'm gonna laugh. My side is gonna hurt every time. Yeah, every time. But what I love about you, though, is that there's a sweet seriousness to you. Does that make sense?

[Tony]

Like.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, you're not serious. Like me. I'm very serious. I love to have fun, but I am extremely.

[Tony]

No, we need to.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm like, all right, okay.

[Tony]

Get to the point.

[Megan Ashley]

You know, I can be really serious, but for you, it's like, you just give joy. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I get that from you. Not. And not even in a pretentious way or a fake way, but, like, it's just, like, joy. Like, you are.

[Tony]

I'm so happy.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

I feel joyful.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you feel more of an authentic joy now? Like, do you feel like, now I know what joy is. And. And do you appreciate the suffering?

[Tony]

Yeah, more like.

[Megan Ashley]

Cause it's like, you know, like, the suffering sucks. Like, me and you have been through similar things or living similar contexts.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Single. Like, divorced.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Now we're single in ministry.

[Tony]

These kids.

[Megan Ashley]

These kids.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

These baby daddies.

[Tony]

I got two of them and.

[Megan Ashley]

You got two of them. I only got one of them.

[Tony]

Oh, Jesus. What happened? What happened, Lord? Oh, gosh. Can you believe it?

[Megan Ashley]

I can't even I have one, and I.

[Tony]

Sometimes I look at myself like, well, first of all, let me answer your question, and then we'll double back on this. But I actually think the reason why people are so drawn to that joy is because they're aware of the suffering I've been through.

[Megan Ashley]

Yep.

[Tony]

I actually think I'm pretty normal. I mean, there's some energy. There's a lot of energy. I was gonna say there's some other things.

[Megan Ashley]

Your energy is not normal, but at the base level.

[Tony]

Okay, at the base level, I'm a pretty normal human being.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

It's just that I've been honest about the suffering and very open about it. So when people see me smile, it's. It's like. It's. It's weird. It's like how you've been through so much. You've suffered publicly, You've been embarrassed. How are you still? Not only. I try to be kind. I try to be generous. I love to share my life with people. Stranger, anybody. I'm like, come to the house. Come eat. I love it. And people are just like, you've been so deeply hurt and betrayed by people. How. And I think that's why the joy stands out, because it's like, how could you smile? And then I get the opportunity to say, the joy of the Lord is my strength.

[Megan Ashley]

Man, that just gave me chills. That. That scripture probably means so much. It's not just a cliche saying to you.

[Tony]

Yeah, no, it really, really is. And not only that, but it just makes me love God more that that. He's so powerful that he could quite literally pierce through the pain in our heart and infuse it with joy. You're kidding me.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

What else? Nothing else can satisfy that. I don't know.

[Megan Ashley]

Correct.

[Tony]

I mean, if it can, it's quick.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

It's like, oh, I'm happy, but really, I just blacked out because I was drunk. Okay. You know. No, you just don't remember that she was crying all like that last night. Okay. You know what I mean? Like. No, it's.

[Megan Ashley]

For sure.

[Tony]

No, really. The transforming power of God not only redeems you and changes you and saves you. It infuses joy into what could be the deepest pain and the deepest depression and the deepest, darkest moments, and it is just the coolest thing.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you feel like there is a special grace on your life to be exposed in the way that you were exposed? Because I don't feel like everyone can handle that. Like, I feel like I don't know if I could handle.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

All of what I've went through.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

To be out there like that.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

But do you feel like there is a. Like a. Like, God has graced you to be so naked.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

In front of everyone.

[Tony]

100%. I don't know why he created me this way, but I have actually been this way since the beginning. Like, I have. My friends used to literally call me a Teletubby. This is why I say it all the time now. And I can remember a moment when things got real dark in my life and I was losing that Teletubbiness. I was changing. I was getting more serious, more straightforward. I mean, just not like that, but, you know, like, just more. There was a part of me that I viewed the world truly as, like, Care Bear Land. And then I was like, no one can be trusted. There's no way.

[Megan Ashley]

Is this. After the divorce.

[Tony]

After my first divorce really started happening. I was fresh in the church. I was so excited, and I experienced some church hurt, spiritual manipulation. I was like, oh, that's weird. I really. I really had assumed that everyone here was really nice. I lost a whole community, a church community. Like, yeah. Then I went through this divorce, and now I'm like, a single mom. It was just so weird. I was like, oh, this is not the life I signed up for.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And I can remember at 24, praying like, Lord, give it back. I want to view. Anna golden says I want to view the world with doe eyes. Like, I want to be like a child. I want to, like, appreciate people and choose to trust on the front end.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And slowly but surely, the Lord gave that back to me in a way that was more sustainable. Because what was happening from, like, 21 to 24 is I was playing saved, but I really was. I was, but I wasn't.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And so there was this false joy. Joy that was really deeply rooted in, like, just humanity.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, yeah.

[Tony]

What I can do and what I can offer my gifts and talents. Being on stage at 24, when I really started to become a follower of God, not just a fan, he gave me a sustainable joy, a concrete joy. So when I went through my second divorce, it was hold. It was different. I was different.

[Megan Ashley]

I was like, can you tell us the difference between what is a concrete joy and what is a counterfeit joy?

[Tony]

Counterfeit joy is that your happiness is rooted in everything humanity can give you.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good.

[Tony]

And I think a concrete joy is deeply embedded in the holiness of who God is, which never changes. Right. It's concrete. It doesn't change. It doesn't waver. It stays the same in the highest of moments and the lowest of valleys. And having that now.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Oh, man. I can go through anything. No, I don't want to go through everything. Hello? Excuse me, Daddy. God. If you're listening right now, which I think you are, I don't wanna go through anything else. Okay. I just wanted to say it for the podcast, but I don't. You know what I mean, for sure. But if. And if I needed to. Yeah, I know I would come out with joy.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

If I'm being honest, I think that that's an area that I, that I still wrestle with.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And I was talking about this in another episode, but I was talking about how in the parable of the Prodigal Son, how that's my favorite is my.

[Tony]

That's, that's.

[Megan Ashley]

I can talk about the prodigal.

[Tony]

Have you read the Prodigal God?

[Megan Ashley]

I'm reading it now with my Patreon community. Are you kidding me?

[Tony]

I did not know that. Wow. It gives me the chills. I love. Do you Love story?

[Megan Ashley]

It's so, it's literally.

[Tony]

You brought that up.

[Megan Ashley]

It's transforming my life. But I believe that, like, when I had. When my life came kind of crashing down in a sense where I, like the prodigal son, I'm at the lowest of low. Right. Like, I, I've come to the end of myself mentally, emotionally, spiritually, even physically. Like, I'm. I'm 115lbs soaking wet at this point. Like, I am.

[Tony]

I get it.

[Megan Ashley]

Dying.

[Tony]

Yep. Sick.

[Megan Ashley]

Sick.

[Tony]

I'm sick.

[Megan Ashley]

I look sick. I am sick in all the ways I know it.

[Tony]

I have been sick.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello. So out here on this porch, I come to the end of myself and, and like the prodigal son, I start to remember how good it was with him, with my father. Right. I come to my senses. And so I returned back. But I, like the prodigal son, returned with the intentions on only being a servant. And I still struggle sometimes with being accepted as a daughter. And I believe that in that acceptance, I would experience more joy if I would accept.

[Tony]

If you would just settle.

[Megan Ashley]

If I would just settle with that. And so how have you been able? Because maybe you could help me and our. And some of our audience, because I, I, I think that it's a false humility that the Lord has exposed in my heart where it's like, oh, you think you're being so humble. I'll just be a servant.

[Tony]

Whoa, is me.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Like, and it's like, that's false humility. It's pride, baby girl. It's pride. You feel like you can earn this. You can earn my love. You can earn your. Your. Your. Your sonship. And you can't. Just like the prodigal son couldn't earn his sonship, his dad just drapes him in his robe and puts his ring on and restores him back without the son doing anything but just returning. So how can. How have you been able to. Just outside of the fact that that's just how God created you to be this Teletubby and have doe eyes for the world. How can you. How. And how can we as believers who have struggled and suffered.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Return back to the Father with joy and accept that?

[Tony]

Yeah. So I think it's. It's so interesting how we're navigating this conversation because it's all so interconnected. The more honest I am about my brokenness, I'm like, I have an addictive personality. I can't even drink alcohol. Cause I ain't got no self control. I'm drunk instantly. Okay. I'm three shots down, you know, because I'm so vulnerable. And it gives me this picture of myself that is completely raw and honest. And it is. You are broken and imperfect, period. You. It. You just don't. Ma'. Am. Like, you can't do this life.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

You have done some. I mean, nasty stuff. When I really just think back. Disgusting. D. Sca Stan. Okay. You know how many colleges I visited? You know, many frat parties I went to? Nasty. Okay. Okay. I slept with over 20 men by the time I was 19. 20. Okay. I don't want to pretend when I do that, even though it's funny and what? Like, it just keeps me in a place that's like God, thank you.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

For sure.

[Tony]

It never gets old. It never gets old.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

That God would literally save you.

[Tony]

Genuinely would have barely saved me. I'd have been like, no, just. You go ahead and stay in the club, baby girl. That's you. Nasty. Okay. You didn't scrub this whole situation with your whole body. You've been crumping it. You got baby oil on. This is crazy. Like. And God was like, can you imagine? Just see. Maybe even the conversation that the Lord and Jesus had is her. We want to use her.

[Megan Ashley]

Elder angels is like.

[Tony]

Which version? When we go use her. Exactly. But I literally started in youth ministry and the youth pastor was like, hey, you have a call in your life. And I'm like, I'm high right now at church. What?

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

When you come to the point where you are like, I'm deeply flawed. I literally cannot do this life. I. Every time I get in the presence of the Lord, I'm like, you're amazing.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

That you would use us.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

You.

[Megan Ashley]

What's up in totality fam? It's me, Megan. Ashley. You know, lately I've been thinking I really should see a doctor more often. Between battling sleep trouble and those random aches and pains. Okay. Because I'm in my thirt, it feels like something is always popping up. But scheduling an appointment has always been such a hassle. Finding someone in network, checking their ratings, syncing their availability with mine, and I'm never available. It's just too much. I've discovered though, zocdoc, and it has changed the game. Zocdoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment. With zocdoc, you have access to over a hundred thousand in network providers across every specialty. Everything from primary care to urgent care, dental health, mental health. You can filter by insurance, location, patient ratings, and even specific medical needs. Once you find someone you like, you'll see their actual openings. Pick a time that works best for you and click to instantly book. And here's the best part part. Appointments through Zocdoc usually happen between 24 and 72 hours and you can often score a same day slot. If for any reason I need to change doctors in the future or find a new medical specialist for myself or for my kiddos, ZOCDOC is what I'd use. So stop putting off doctor appointments and go to Zocdoc.com totality to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's sockdoc.com totality. All right, guys, back to the conversation.

[Tony]

You could do this by yourself. When I think about Jesus and the disciples, he could have done it all by himself.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yep.

[Tony]

He decided to bring us in.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And knowing that two of them would betray him. Betrayal.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And he was like. And I'm going to use them.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yep. Yeah.

[Tony]

That makes me really happy.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And so grateful. And I think that's where the joy comes from. And. And the joy becomes a weapon of resilience. Because when something crazy happens.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

You just remember.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes. I have been saying this recently how your memory is one of your greatest weapons.

[Tony]

And I really ain't got a good one because I fried a lot of it away with all the drugs. But when I do remember.

[Megan Ashley]

But when you Think back.

[Tony]

And when I think back at my nasty self, and that's.

[Megan Ashley]

And I think that is the thing. And I've even had to. I've even had to build. I've even had to allow the LOR to give me strategy because sometimes my memory can be. Can be an opportunity for the. For the enemy to weaponize it again. He'd be like, you remember when you was. He don't really love you because remember what you did and da, da, da. And. But what I have. What I have learned to do is to. Is to interrogate that fact with the truth.

[Tony]

Yes.

[Megan Ashley]

It's like what you said is. Is a fact, but the truth is, is that he loves me.

[Tony]

Yep. Period.

[Megan Ashley]

Period. And that he saved me.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you know what I'm saying? And I think like you were saying, like, when you remember on some of the ratchet behavior and you can't forget you.

[Tony]

If you try to block out your past, you will not see redemption.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good.

[Tony]

If you are not honest about what you've been through, what you've done, who you've hurt.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Oh.

[Tony]

You literally can't sit in the redemption because there's no redemption. You don't need hope if you think everything's perfect. Wow. Wow. Have to remember.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Wow.

[Tony]

You have to.

[Megan Ashley]

So it's the acknowledgement.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

That's what is actually been the most powerful thing. People are like, oh, my gosh, you're so vulnerable. You so wrong. I'm like, you have no idea that this is a weapon. It's a weapon to the enemy. When the enemy wants to remind you of what you've done, you'll be like, oh, I already know. I told everybody already. When the enemy wants to remind you that you felt unloved, it's like, oh, I already know. But God already assured that this love is for eternity. What are you talking about, homeboy? I'm telling you, I've gotten a little feisty with my faith here recently.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, I like that.

[Tony]

You know what I'm saying? Like, enemy, you've got. You had a lot. You probably had about 25 years, honestly.

[Megan Ashley]

You said, but your time is up.

[Tony]

You don't get anymore.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

You don't get anymore.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

You don't get to confuse me. You don't get to make me doubt God. You don't get to do that anymore. We're moving onward.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And you posted something recently about shame, and I think that. And I loved it. I love what you said. I thought it was so helpful and so good. Because if we're not. If we don't have a proper framework on shame and how the enemy uses shame so hard, we are going to debilitate our. Our effectiveness. Even our effectiveness. And what you said is so powerful. And it's something that my mom used to say all the time. My mom would be like, megan, I don't give the enemy room to try to weaponize anything against me. That's why I confess everything, and that's.

[Tony]

Who we need to be in the room. Thank you, girl. Come back on the podcast. No, because he'll use it.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Tony]

He uses the things in the dark. It's why we have to expose them and put them out into the light. Because he can't use them. Because then what happens is you get. See, when I started telling all my stuff, you get people. Two types of people. One type of person is the one that's like, man, you're so brave. Like, I needed to hear this. Like, this is amazing. God's hand is still in your life. They're encouragers. Then there's the other person that are. That's a benefactor of your honesty. And they're like, I never wanted to say the thing, and now I feel brave enough to say the thing. Because you did.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And then it's. It's literally a trickle of freedom that starts to saturate the kingdom.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yes.

[Tony]

And it's like, we're no longer hiding.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Sorry, enemy. You can't use shame anymore, bud. Because honestly, that. That was probably his greatest weapon. I'm gonna be honest about that. He took out half the church. He didn't. Took out.

[Megan Ashley]

I mean, but it's from the beginning, though, the first thing that they did from this, they hid shame, even. Just like we. And we see it. That It's.

[Tony]

It's.

[Megan Ashley]

It's. It's ingrained in us as humans. When a baby is being about to be potty trained, right. There's a. Comes a time where my kids, they would start to. They would go behind the couch, and I'm like, what are you doing? Oh, they're back there pooping. But they knew that they weren't supposed to, and that's why they hid.

[Tony]

And that's right around age 3, because that is actually when shame settles in. So it was funny, but it actually is psychological, you said.

[Megan Ashley]

And that's age. And that's age three, you said. Because Sammy's doing it now.

[Tony]

Right now. I know. And I. But no, psychologically, our brains actually don't process pain until around three or four.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Wow.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tony]

And Then in that way, we then associate shame. Wow. I know. That's what Dr. Kurt Thompson taught us, that when you see kids do wild things. 012 years, they don't know.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

But then they start like realizing like, oh, that's a bad thing. Right around three or four, which I just think is so interesting. We cannot go down this rabbit trail. But I actually think it's interesting that we were not born with shame. That there's something that God made that's so pure in our arrival unto Earth.

[Megan Ashley]

I like. That's good that you said that.

[Tony]

For some odd reason, we. Our brains don't begin to process like pain associated with shame until three or four. Don't know why. But Lord, we trust you. Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, we do.

[Tony]

And also, I think there's just this innocence to it. And I love that the Bible instructs us, instructs us to be like children.

[Megan Ashley]

All the Jesus to go on the.

[Tony]

Playground and give our mama phone number because my daughter didn't did it a million times. Mama met this girl. I gave your phone number. We're gonna have. It's just because they haven't really developed the full amount of shame. Us. We didn't farted it. We didn't toot it in front of our friends on accident and got made fun of. We have all these memories and that's how shame manifested us as a dude. Because I remember you did that. I did do it at the cheerleading. We had a practice and I said God, and it was loud. Because usually you can get away with the silent ones, but you cannot when you come. You know what I'm saying? When that thing come out sharp. Anyways, shame builds in us over time and we have to be careful. That sound was, you know, it was almost like it slapped you a little bit. It's true and you know it.

[Megan Ashley]

I can't get through anything.

[Tony]

Well, shame is the scheme of the enemy for sure.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, Just boil it down to.

[Tony]

That was one of his best ones.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm sure was.

[Tony]

That's why we was all shocked when the people be pastors be falling because they were hiding. They were in shame.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yep.

[Tony]

And it's like, oh, shoot. You could have just told somebody you was struggling with alcohol because then that would just make you more human and God. More God. And it is not the purpose of being a pastor to point more to Jesus. If you don't want to tell your flaws, then you actually do not want people to know that Jesus is redemptive, that he saves.

[Megan Ashley]

That was helpful.

[Tony]

Yeah, that was good. You gotta say the things. Guys say the things.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, so you, we talked about this last time you were here. You went through Holy Ghost. Oh man.

[Tony]

A lot.

[Megan Ashley]

You went through a lot. And what was crazy is, is that as you're go like right as you're going through all the things, you were.

[Tony]

Writing a book, girl, it was so ratchet. I'm gonna tell you right now, Maine. I really did. I sought a lot of counsel because I have always been the girl. Right. It's a crazy word. I've always been the girl that's like, you want to get healed to the point where you're hopeful about your story and not bitter. And that is when you produce the content. Right. And so when my publishers told me that the book that I had originally written could not come out because it was about moral failure and sanctification and my ex husband had just gone through a moral failure that I they new. I wouldn't want to talk about that for years and years and years. I would not want to be sitting on the in totality saying, well, this is how pastors don't fall. When one my whole husband just did. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just couldn't. So it's not money. It's getting a little funnier. That's when you know you're healing because it's getting a little funnier. But at first it wasn't. It was scary, actually. Okay, it was horrible. It was really bad. Anyway, anyways, I had to write another book. And the option was, well, you got this book deal, you got this second book. You kind of have to put it out. They've been waiting. What are you going to do? And I call Lisa Terkers and I said, what do I do? Like, I don't, I don't want. I want to steward my platform well. I want to heal well. I don't want to be pouring my all into a book. And it's not healthy. And it's a couple things that she said to me that was really beautiful. She said, number one, Tony, you've done nothing wrong. Number two, you've been healing for a long time. You have built up some fortitude to be able to produce even in the face of pain. That's called resilience. And number three, if the Lord doesn't want that book, this new book to come out, he won't give you the words. You will have to wait. He if you are so dependent on the Lord, he will quite literally guide you in the ways that he wants for you. Like right it just wouldn't come correct. And I. And I said, okay, thank you so much. And then I sat down and I just breezed through the content. Really, I am. This second book was easier to write than my first one. And I wasn't in. Barely no trauma on the first one. Wow. There's something, I think, that the Lord was trying to do in me. It was a couple of things. He wanted me to start asking for help, and in that season of writing, I needed a lot of help. I needed people to watch, my kids. I needed to be focused on the content. I needed to go away for a little while. Went away for a couple days to really write and focus in. And I gotta tell you, Megan, it's my greatest. It's the greatest thing I've ever created. I don't know what's to come in the future. And if the Lord don't create nothing through me. And I'm good to go because this is the greatest thing I've ever produced.

[Megan Ashley]

What makes this book different than your first book outside of the trauma? Like, what? Because obviously this is very. This is, like, you coming out of a lot of trauma. What makes this book. And the book that we're talking about is Tony's new book that is coming out August 19th. August 19th. I'm so excited for you and so happy for you. But it's called Don't Try this Alone.

[Tony]

Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

And what makes. So what makes this book.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Different for you.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Than your first book?

[Tony]

My first book was this Healing Roadmap. It was very practical. Very. This is what you do. This is. We pulled a whole bunch of women. We walked with women through, like, this course, this roadmap. Very practical. Definitely raw and vulnerable because it's just who I am. But I was a teacher. I was like, this is what. How you do it and what you do. I was living this book while I wrote it. I got to be, like, teacher and student.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And that's very different.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

I feel like people, when they read it, they will actually feel like we are sitting on the couch talking about what it looks like to build deep community when you're. When you really want to hide from your pain.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And it's awesome. It's so me. It's my voice. Even when I got to record it in the studio, I got to do my own audiobook. I was like, this sounds like me. It's literally me and all of my personality and all of my glory and the honest stories of people coming for me and my kids and covering us. My Gosh.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah, it's.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, it's awesome reading it, and I think. Cause I know you and I've been around you. I think reading it made it more special because I can hear you in it. But I wanted. So I have a few things that I want to ask just based off of, because I actually got to get it before everyone else. You did get to give it. And so I feel really privileged that I got to read it and have it before it came out and you asked me to give you an endorsement. I was. That was so sweet. No one's ever asked me that before.

[Tony]

Really? You guys. You were the first. Per you and Jackie's relationship. Like, we were talking about this off camera. Like, the type of community I'm talking about is, like, as adults, like, adult friendship. That's very difficult and hard. You get over 35 and it's awkward. Hey, what do you do?

[Megan Ashley]

For sure.

[Tony]

For sure. You got kids?

[Megan Ashley]

For sure.

[Tony]

Where you go to school? You don't go to school. You're an adult. Okay.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tony]

And y' all really modeled that. You were, like, one of the first person that came to mind.

[Megan Ashley]

I was like, I love that.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I was just really, really honored. Like, I said, number one, no one's ever asked me to do that, But I was just really honored because I know. I know how important this book is to you. I know how important it is and what it means to you and the story behind it. So I was just. I was just very honored to do that. And so, anyway, that just really meant a lot to me, even though it has nothing to do with me, but it just. Just thank you that you. That you asked me to do that. But anyway, so you.

[Tony]

You.

[Megan Ashley]

This whole book is about community. And you say in the book, healing with people by your side won't be easy, but you were made for it, and you will do it. I know it.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

How? Because I think that in shame, another trick of the enemy is isolation.

[Tony]

100.

[Megan Ashley]

Right. And so when he. When he tries to, like, hit you with shame, the next step is isolating.

[Tony]

You gotta hide.

[Megan Ashley]

You gotta hide. Hide away from people, Hide away from God.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And you Even. Even in the story that you tell about how you find out about the betrayal, God was so kind to have you in community.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, you were with your friends. You were with people that knew you and loved you.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So you didn't have to go through that alone.

[Tony]

Literally.

[Megan Ashley]

How. So what makes doing it with community hard?

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And what makes doing it with community healthy? Yeah.

[Tony]

At the End of the day, what this book came out of. Betrayal from my ex husband. And so you would think that I would be telling people, drag these betrayers. Right. Like, Tony, how and why would you write a book about building deep community when you have been so deeply betrayed, not only by my ex husband, but the whole church.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Never reached out. No one ever checked on us. I got the kids okay. Yeah. If anybody maybe needs a job, Hello. It would be me.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tony]

And it's just because I had spent the previous four years before my public betrayal and divorce building community. I was on the offense, not the defense. And when tragedy hit, I did not have to muster up a group of people to help me. They were right there, figuratively and literally. I was literally in a hotel room and my two closest friends were down the hallway in their hotel rooms. And I got the call from my ex husband talking about being extorted and videos and all kinds of stuff. And I was like, okay, what? And then my next step was the Lord, my friends and my counselor. And they were all right there. Because I decided early on that before tragedy hits my life, I'm going to build some people. That's good. Well, then the question becomes, I don't. I don't want to trust people, Tony. It hurts too much. And it's true. In the book, I quite literally talk about why we don't want community. And I talk about that in the first couple chapters because I already know what people are going to say. Well, I don't need nobody. I've been hurt before, et cetera, et cetera. And my response to them, and it's. This is in the book, is Jesus was betrayed, and he did not allow the betrayal to keep him from loving the others.

[Megan Ashley]

Yep.

[Tony]

Because Sheila Walsh had said this because the betrayal of the One was not big enough to overshadow the connection of the 11. Jesus literally modeled to us what it looks like to get back up again.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Even when you've been betrayed.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And he didn't. Again, he didn't have to.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

He even showed us what it looked like to pursue a friend who acted like, they don't even know you.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Hey.

[Megan Ashley]

Denied him three times.

[Tony]

Denied him Peter times.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And he went back. He pressed back in to conflict.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Like this is conflict that we're talking about.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And I just feel like if Jesus modeled it for us, there was something we needed to get out of it.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And he didn't only do it with the disciples. I mean, Naomi had Ruth.

[Megan Ashley]

I. I love that you said that. And you want to know why I love that you said that? Why is. Because I literally. When I was praying about our episode, God kept bringing Naomi and Ruth to me.

[Tony]

Surprise, y'. All.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm not even joking. And I was like, had a Ruth.

[Tony]

And guess what? Ruth had a Naomi. And they mutually helped each other in the depths of their grief.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yes.

[Tony]

And they came out on top.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yes.

[Tony]

Oh, my gosh. Ruth professing her love for Jesus. I mean, it's. What are we talking about? That at the end of the day, she was like, my God is your God now. And sweet old little Naomi, she was. Didn't have any.

[Megan Ashley]

She said, just leave me.

[Tony]

Leave me. I don't have anything to offer. I don't have a man. My sons are like, yeah. And Ruth was like, I'm right here.

[Megan Ashley]

And. And what I love about that picture of community is that Ruth had so much to risk by staying with Naomi.

[Tony]

So she could have went back to her fam. To people that she actually knows and who would have accepted her just the way she was.

[Megan Ashley]

Correct.

[Tony]

She wanted to be refined, changed, made new. She wanted to be deeply connected to someone who couldn't offer her really, anything.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Tony]

What's interesting is she ended up offering her something of great value. Confidence to go after what the Lord had for her.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

I can't.

[Megan Ashley]

I could go on.

[Tony]

The whole episode could be about it. Because we are literally a connected creation.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yes.

[Tony]

You just don't.

[Megan Ashley]

The tapestry of just everyone woven together. Every thread.

[Tony]

It's weird.

[Megan Ashley]

Individually woven together to create this amazing masterpiece.

[Tony]

And what's crazy is that we are okay needing people in every scenario outside of the ones that are close to our hearts. Wow. We need a doctor to deliver us into the world we. I know. I know. I need an eye doctor. I don't know what they called an optometrist.

[Megan Ashley]

I think for sure we will call.

[Tony]

On everybody for a need. For a need. Except for the ones that concern our heart.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Wow.

[Tony]

Why?

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Wow.

[Tony]

Why is that?

[Megan Ashley]

Shame.

[Tony]

Shame. Betrayal. Trusting again. At the end of the day, the harder you love, the harder it's gonna hurt.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And we don't want. We don't want that. We want our relationships to be Teletubby land.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And if the entire rest of our lives are imperfect and broken and within the fallen, broken humanity, what makes us think that's not gonna creep into our friendships and relationships?

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And if brokenness in the world and the curse of sin is in every aspect of our life and God redeems it, then why can't he do it in friendships and relationships.

[Megan Ashley]

And, you know, this is very close to my heart when it comes to. Especially when it comes to relationships, friendships, because I think that there was a point in time where I was like, you know, honestly, truthfully, in totality, I'm good. Yeah, I. I'm good.

[Tony]

I can. I got my kids. I'm gonna get focused on my career. And could you even imagine your life today if you wouldn't have opened your heart back up and Jackie came into your life?

[Megan Ashley]

It's crazy. It's quite literally crazy.

[Tony]

Think about the people that are like, I'm not trusting again. And they have a Megan or a Jackie that knows that's safe, or a Tony that's safe, that'll show up when you need them, that'll pray over you and cover your children.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Come on. You mean to tell me you're gonna let the people that hurt you keep you, keep you from that? No, they don't get to have it.

[Megan Ashley]

And what. And what I love about God is that I. And I think I realized this. More. Reading your book is because you really emphasize community and the importance of community. But then I started to think about the Lord and I started to think about how God in the beginning has always been in community.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

God has been in community since the beginning. He's always been in community with himself.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

He's ne. You know what I'm saying? You were created. Yeah.

[Tony]

From the beginning, they were all there. Who.

[Megan Ashley]

Who was in community.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So why would we ever think that we could be isolated from community?

[Tony]

Why? And that it'd be a good thing.

[Megan Ashley]

And that. Because even. Because even when. When God creates Adam, it like everything in the. And it was good. And it was good. And then he creates Adam.

[Tony]

He's like, ah, go to sleep, go to sleep. And not only that, I'm going to take a rib, which, if we know anything about biology, the rib, very strong, covers and protects the organs, the heart, all of these things. I'm going to take that strong piece from you and I'm going to put it in the azerkonegdo.

[Megan Ashley]

The what?

[Tony]

Azer Connecto. Helper suitable.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay. I was like, what? You gotta tell people.

[Tony]

I do have to. I apologize to the Patreons. But this, this word Eve.

[Megan Ashley]

Huh?

[Tony]

Helper suitable. Okay. The word is azer Connecto.

[Megan Ashley]

That's the what word? Just tell me what the word is. Azer. Say it again.

[Tony]

Azer Connecto.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, I'm ready.

[Tony]

Okay. A helper suitable does not mean a slave or servant. It means that she was the only one designed to complete this union. It was only her. And I just believe that the Lord has friends that were made and designed for you.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Only you.

[Megan Ashley]

And what I also love about how you communicate community, because you could. You could have came out of this whole thing truly, and been, like, focusing on finding a man.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

That's the redemption is a man that's so good. You could have done that and think about. And so many people fill that to fill the void, because it was a man that betrayed you. It was a man that hurt you. And you could have. You could have made all of this about redeeming that marriage. But you make. You made this about community, friendship, people, church. Like, you've made this broader and do you know what I'm saying? And not so narrow. And I think that's what I love and appreciate about this book, is that it's giving you community in totality and not just in a narrow way of like, oh, this is how you heal so you can get a better man.

[Tony]

That's so.

[Megan Ashley]

But this is how, through community, God heals you to be a better Christian, to be a better woman of God, to be a better, you know, follower of Christ. Like, that is what I love about how you communicate. That was that. And you said that's not something that you thought about, but do you see how that can be?

[Tony]

I love that. I love it. Because it's the church.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And I mean, if we're gonna be honest, we got many people going to church because they want to be married, looking for a man or a woman. When really, when we look at Acts 2.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Huh.

[Tony]

We're looking at people being lifelines for you.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

[Tony]

They had all things in common, intimate partners, everything had. They gave everything they had, and everyone had everything they needed. And when somebody was playing around and didn't want to give them, suckers will strike down to the ground a piece of ash. Can you imagine? But that's how important.

[Megan Ashley]

Come on, think about that, though.

[Tony]

No, that's how important community is to the Lord. Goodness, that anyone that would come into this holy environment of people being generous, being servants, relying, ushering in the Holy Spirit, he strike them down dead.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good.

[Tony]

For not being generous, for not being communal, for lying, for not being honest.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, we. Hello.

[Tony]

He strike them suckers down to the ground.

[Megan Ashley]

He said, I'm making it the both.

[Tony]

Of y', all, too. One came after the other. We you next.

[Megan Ashley]

Can you imagine the room silent.

[Tony]

But could you imagine if we all knew the church like that? If I don't respect this community enough, I'm gonna be striked down to the ground like a piece of ash. That's how important community is to the Lord.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, there's a. There's, there's a. There's a reverence that the Lord wants us to have about.

[Tony]

These are my people. These are my sons and daughters. What are you talking about?

[Megan Ashley]

We.

[Tony]

These are my. I. Listen, Tony, this is. I can only truly, like, I really genuinely, every now and again, maybe once a quarter, pray for my ex husband. Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you?

[Tony]

I do, unfortunately.

[Megan Ashley]

How does that work?

[Tony]

I mean, I'd be like, lord, save him. I get not much. I want to be honest about it. It ain't much that's coming out. And I said, I'm working on it. I'm working on it, Lord Jesus. But it's because I know he's his son.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Oof.

[Megan Ashley]

He is created in his image.

[Tony]

Dang. Pat convicts me right now because that's the truth.

[Megan Ashley]

I. I'm gonna be honest with you.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Can we be honest?

[Tony]

All right. I mean, I've been.

[Megan Ashley]

It's really hard.

[Tony]

So hard.

[Megan Ashley]

I literally. Tony, when I say. And I want to be fair, okay. Because my ex husband, my kids love him. He's super present.

[Tony]

He do be present. I met him randomly at the table. I was like, who is this brother? And he was just, I'm Megan's ex husband. I said, okay, hello. I passed me to the ranch. Are we all here now? I mean, you get the ranch. I don't know what else. I said, he is here. Anyways. I just want to. You know what I'm saying? He or he present.

[Megan Ashley]

He's present. They love him. Our relationship is not his and his children's relationship. Right, Right. And so there are times where I'm like, I understand. I have seen baby mamas flip out and do and say. And I. Respectful things.

[Tony]

So much empathy only hurts the children. But at the same time, girls, we get it. Tony, I know you almost ran them over that one time. I know. I have had weird, weird thoughts.

[Megan Ashley]

I have had so. I have had unholy 100 imaginations and thoughts.

[Tony]

Literally. Plans have been made. Truly. And I. I mean, when I tell you. And honestly, I've shared them with the Lord, obviously. Okay. Got the holy conviction going. But I've shared it with my friends, too. I've shared some stuff with you about some. Some wild thoughts. Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And it helps. Really does.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Tony]

Because you're not like, Tony, I can't believe you. Hey, I get it.

[Megan Ashley]

I literally.

[Tony]

I empathize. I get it.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm like, tony, I get it. And I probably need to do that more. I probably need to confess. I need to text you more to be like. Because I know you'll get it.

[Tony]

I get it.

[Megan Ashley]

And I. So like, I understand.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And have empathy.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't see how people do it apart from God and community. Let me just tell you right now.

[Tony]

I do not blowing everything up.

[Megan Ashley]

I would.

[Tony]

I don't even know if that's a word. I would have ballooned it up. Okay. Ballooned.

[Megan Ashley]

I would ruin my life and my kid's life if I did not have the Lord.

[Tony]

I' ma tell you this over some.

[Megan Ashley]

And some stuff be over. Like, it ain't even that deep. But it's the. All the other stuff you hit.

[Tony]

You hit my mailbox a little bit on your way out from picking up your son dead to me. You know what I'm saying? Like, no, calm down, guys. But I'm going to tell you literally what you're saying is so true. Because when I first. When my ex husband called me to tell me he was being extorted, all the things I was like, well, that's not the first time, unfortunately. But also, I got super bitter very fast and I'm very good with my words. And I started getting on the social medias and like subliminally dragging him. And I had two friends. I'll never forget it, Gerald and Reid. They were. We were student pastors together at North Point. And they text me and they said, hey, we've been watching your socials. We know you're hurting. We know what's going on. That's not how you do it, you know, and checked me and I had, I mean, my whole platform and I wasn't handling it well. I was. And I was about to come. I mean, I changed my relationship status on Facebook. I started real pastors. This real. I mean, I. And it wasn't like malicious because I can. I'm very like, like. But I was coming for him.

[Megan Ashley]

In your heart.

[Tony]

You were like, oh, I'm about to drag you. And it's gonna be so subliminal, but it's gonna take you out. And I had two people in my community say, that's not it, Tony. And I will never, ever, ever, ever forget what it looks like to be humble enough to say, you're right.

[Megan Ashley]

That part ever. Because I could have said, please, this he lucky. You know, how you lucky.

[Tony]

I don't say, well, I could post this FaceTime. I screen recorded when you confessed. But.

[Megan Ashley]

But do you want to know? Oh, not screen. Record.

[Tony]

Sure, I did. Because I'm a smart girl. Okay. Because I knew as soon as you say I did something wrong, I said do, and I had to take my bonnet off. No. This is so funny. In the recording, I have my little hot pink bonnet on from Target, and I. I slid it off in the middle. In the middle of the recording. Crazy. But, baby, the evidence is there.

[Megan Ashley]

But why did you feel like you needed to take your bonnet?

[Tony]

If I ever have to present this in court, I did. I'm not kidding. It's like, about three minutes into the video, I was like.

[Megan Ashley]

Can you please show me that? That is hilarious.

[Tony]

I will. I will show you. I will. It's right there. But humility.

[Megan Ashley]

But I. But I. It is so important.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

To have community in your brokenness. Because you need people. You better be to be able to hold a mirror, because I have had those same temptations. I remember one time I had posted something subliminally after being hurt.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

This was early. This was early in 2023, after my life came crashing down.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And I remember posting something, and it did not sit right with me. It's something. I just felt like it.

[Tony]

Didn't we be knowing.

[Megan Ashley]

I. And the Lord checked me and was like, now, Megan, now, baby girl.

[Tony]

I know.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't do that to you. And I have every right.

[Tony]

Oh, and then you remember.

[Megan Ashley]

And. And then I remember by the same grace. This. Do you understand? And I'm not saying that's easy, Especially when it comes to marriages and. And hurt and trauma. Your children are involved.

[Tony]

And then.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I'm saying? The enemy can give you plenty of reasons to go down the list of things for you to be bitter and angry.

[Tony]

Truly.

[Megan Ashley]

Right. And in some ways, some stuff is justified.

[Tony]

Right. Well, this is why you have friends. Because you can be bitter and angry with them and you can hold that. They can hold that space with you so that you don't make a fool of yourself and your whole family on the Internet. Okay. What do we mean?

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

That's why it matters, because we do actually need the space to be bitter and to be angry and for me to call you and be like, man, I can't believe. I can't believe. And you need someone to say, I know, I know, I know. Here's what we're gonna do, though. We're gonna bring this to the Lord. We're gonna let him handle it. Vengeance is his, not yours.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yep.

[Tony]

Come on. We're back.

[Megan Ashley]

And what I have seen it be able to do is I've seen it be able to. It has been such a witness to people. For people to see some of the stuff that I have been through or to know some of the stuff that I have been through and how I have steward the public ness of it all. Yeah, it's been a witness to the like, to the goodness and the mercy and the kindness and the redemptive power of the Lord. Because there's no way Megan in her own power could do that. There's no way, Tony, in her own power.

[Tony]

I want to reiterate this. I would have ballooned everything up. Ballooned. I would like to make a shirt for the Patreon people. Bloomed up and. But here's what I just want to pay attention to for a second. There were people that knew the details of your story. This is the power of having a safe community. Because I remember some of my friends saying, man, Tony, like, I've seen you walk through a lot, but the way you have handled this has really inspired me that imagine if I kept that vulnerability from my friends. Imagine if I was like, I'm just going into hiding. I remember my first Father's Day. I did not want to go to church. I was like, I'm staying in the bed today. And then. And then I realized I. You have kids. You have to get up, number one. Number two, I have a nanny who lives with us. And she was like, hey, I'm getting dressed. Like, I'm like, oh, gosh. I have all these people that depend on me. I have to go to church. Yeah, I go to church. She goes and grabs our seats. I go check the kids in, and I'm so. I'm just like, this sucks. Like, and then. And then it was just so crazy, because this is the enemy. I go to church, check my kids in by myself. It's a hassle. It's crazy. I'm, like, holding back tears. They hand us on Father's Day, this card. It's like parent night. And the parent night says for married couples and their families to talk about parenting. Da, da, da. And it was just like another dagger. It's like, well, can I not come because I'm not married? Like, is this me? And it just was bad verbiage on the church's part. You know what I'm saying? It's like, we got to be more inclusive than this, y'. All. Okay? And then I go into the. The day. The child care bathroom, and I just cry, and I'M in the corner, and I've got. It's. I'm like, I got my little dress on. I'm trying to be cute for Father's Day, and I'm just crying in the corner on the floor. And I get a text from my friend Rachel Autry, and it just says, hey, I was just praying just now, and I just felt the Lord say, it's time to get up. I'm not kidding. I screenshot it.

[Megan Ashley]

Are you kidding me?

[Tony]

I'm having her on my podcast this season because I literally need to tell the people this story. This girl truly is an Instagram friend. Okay? Like, we just met. It wasn't. She was like, I just was praying for you. I know everything you're going through. I know we're not super close. I just felt the Lord say, like, it's time to get up.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, I would have.

[Tony]

I sent her a video. I still have the video. I will. I'm gonna play it for this podcast because. And. Because I was just like, I know you don't really know you very well, but I'm sitting in the bathroom in my church in the kids area, and the toilet's, like, right by my face because it's a kid toilet, you know, so it's like, little. And it's. I mean, just pee. There's probably pee pees right there. And I'm like. And I just want to thank you so much for just saying the thing. And I'm like, wow.

[Megan Ashley]

And that. I think. I think if we don't. If we don't open ourselves up to community, we will miss some of the miracles that God. Like, that's a miracle from God.

[Tony]

I.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you understand?

[Tony]

Miracles? Through my people for two years straight. I have a folder in my little phone called the God Winks folder that is literally. And what's crazy is that when I go back and look at it, it's all people. It's all people doing things. It's all God moving through his people. I literally was. We were talking about this for the Patreon community. It was like, when I first got my. We rented a new house, I moved me and my kids in there, and I didn't have a lot of furniture because I left a whole bunch. I couldn't. I was like, I'm leaving that demonic furniture over there. I'm not taking that bed. It's disgust in that bed, and it's disgust and addiction in that bed. Okay? And I. But I was this. So vain of me. I was like, I just don't Have a lot of money to buy really cute furniture. And I want my house to be really cute because it's mine now.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

This is my stuff. I want to be. I wanted to be so sure. And I remember my friends reaching out, and they were like, we're gonna make you an Amazon wish list. And you know what? I thought they gonna order me. It's gonna be ugly. And I told my counselor, I'm like, I just feel so weird about this. Like, they want to get me a couch. And, like, one of my friends wants me to borrow a couch, and it's nasty and it's not gonna match, and I want everything to be black and white. I want a Scandinavian house. And my counselor says to me, tony, do you want a house that's lavished, filled with lavish things, or filled with love? And I walk around my house today, and we sit on a couch given to me by my best friend Ashley. Dylan sleeps in a bed that was given to her by Jackie. My whole bedroom set is for my confessional community, my group therapy group. The mirror that I look in, that we dance in in the kitchen is given by my friend Deborah.

[Megan Ashley]

That's beautiful.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

You gotta let people in, man.

[Megan Ashley]

You gotta let people love you.

[Tony]

They'll cover you.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

They will cover your babies when you can't. And the truth is, I think it takes a level of faith and a level of humility.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Faith that says I can open my heart up again because God won't let it be broken.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

To the point where it's not redeemable.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And I actually have humility. Humiliate. Humble. I'm humble enough to accept the help.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, that part. That part.

[Tony]

Because I had the friends, but I didn't want to accept the help. Listen, I was like, I want a regular couch, you know, Like.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And my house is. I mean.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

It's not the fanciest thing, but it's so beautiful.

[Megan Ashley]

And you realize it doesn't matter.

[Tony]

It doesn't.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I'm saying? Like, when you really. It's like, least no matter.

[Tony]

Matter at all.

[Megan Ashley]

It doesn't matter. I. I think I can. I identify with. I struggle with letting people in. I struggle hard with letting people. And I think I've done better.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Even just being vulnerable, like, there have been ways. Even like with Jay and Jordan. Who are they? They're here all the time. You know, they live here, so they're here all the time. And I'm like. There have been ways where I'm like. Or I'll Tell Jordan, like, I'm actually struggling. I'm struggling a little bit.

[Tony]

I'm not well.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm. Well, if you see me hiding in my room for three to four days, I'm not well. I think there's. But there's. There's power in that vulnerability.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Because you're choosing power and vulnerability. Or prison.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Where you have trapped your emotions in the way that you feel.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

To a point where you are imprisoned.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

In your own mind. And let me tell you something. I don't need to be imprisoned in my own mind, because then I'm a stripper at this point, and now I'm selling my toes because.

[Megan Ashley]

What do you mean, selling your toes?

[Tony]

Well, because in my mind, I'm like, this would be way easier if I just made a quick million on my toes. My friends, however, are like, God is able to prove he's a provider. You know what I'm saying?

[Megan Ashley]

You must have great feet if you can make them.

[Tony]

I actually do have really cute. And this is the problem because I've been looking at them a little bit too long, and I. I switched from white because my daughter said it was basic. Oh, that's right.

[Megan Ashley]

So what's the new color?

[Tony]

It's more of a dusty pink. Okay. Because I can't go full throttle yet. But it's a dusty pink, and I. She's beautiful is all I'm going to say. And all I'm going to say is I can't be trusted with my own thoughts. I know that full well.

[Megan Ashley]

For sure.

[Tony]

Okay.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

I need people to be like, hey, that dress that you thought was cute. Your booty is out. And so is your top glory. Okay. Your top glory is out for everyone to see. You know what? I did think it was cute, and I made a misstep. Here, let me go put a shawl on. You know, like, a shawl is crazy. I have a propensity to be wild because that's what I was for 25 years. Promiscuous, lustful. All the things. I need people.

[Megan Ashley]

You need people to be like you.

[Tony]

Need people if that was the choice that you needed to make.

[Megan Ashley]

You know, one thing that I have process about community is. Is that when I was going through all the things and I had friends that I felt betrayed by left me all the stuff. I remember being in a pity party and being like, everyone left, and I have no one. And I have no one. And just. I have no one. I have no one. I have no friends. I have this, you know, And I Remember the Lord being offended by that. Like, I remember sensing an offense because the Lord was like, you don't have.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Who.

[Megan Ashley]

I had Jay here, Jordan here, who had been here, who were the own. They were the only two people and Jordan's mom that helped me moved in my house. We moved my house by ourselves. Same me and Jordan carrying dressers, mattresses. Just me and her. And then Jay's like, y' all shouldn't be doing this by yourself.

[Tony]

What are y' all doing?

[Megan Ashley]

Jay comes and helps, right? Helps us move. I mean, stayed until things were done, came back, hasn't left, grateful, still here. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, just come doing the stuff that I don't want to do. Jay, there's a bug. Kill it, please. Please.

[Tony]

Gosh, it's gonna eat my eyeball. Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

There's a rooster outside. And that happened because. Get it, you know?

[Tony]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And so. But I remember being in a pity party, and the Lord was like, oh, you don't. You don't have that. But you do have this. And it's what I've given you, and you should be grateful for what? So even if you don't have the. The. The quantity.

[Tony]

Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

That you used to have.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Even if you have one to two good people.

[Tony]

We acting like Jesus didn't have circles.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

[Tony]

Jesus had his most intimate circle. Him and daddy.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

God.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

[Tony]

One time. We'll say it here in the episode. Outside of that. He actually brought three close in the Garden of Gethsemane.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yep.

[Tony]

In his most vulnerable moment.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yep.

[Tony]

He said, now all 12 of y' all can't come.

[Megan Ashley]

Vulnerable moment. And the most glorious moment on the mount of Transfiguration, he brought three.

[Tony]

He brought three.

[Megan Ashley]

And at the mountaintop. And when he was at his.

[Tony]

Hello, listen. Even Jesus had circles.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Like. And outside of that circle, he had the 12. The other 12. The other nine. Like the disciples.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And then when you really start to pay attention to all of his friendship circles, him and God, those three close disciples that he brought in, the other disciples. Mary Magdalene, all them. His mom and them. John.

[Megan Ashley]

We've seen the chosen.

[Tony]

We saw the chosens, but then also the people that wanted to be healed. Lazarus.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And then also the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. Now, they couldn't come in the garden.

[Megan Ashley]

Hello.

[Tony]

Because they was gonna arrest. It wasn't welcome in the garden.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Tony]

It was coming to arrest him.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

But they were still a friend to Jesus, because everyone is Jesus's friend. They just have different places.

[Megan Ashley]

Correct.

[Tony]

But he wants all of us to be connected to him.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Enemies. Teachers of the scarf. What? Doesn't matter. But he didn't bring them into those intimate spaces.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

He modeled what it looks like to have boundaries, to bring people close, to.

[Megan Ashley]

Keep people at bay and that.

[Tony]

And. But to still be kind.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you. But do you know how much of a. Of a kindness it is for the Lord to only keep a few people around me at my most broken?

[Tony]

Because he knew.

[Megan Ashley]

Because he knew what they could handle. He's like, I created them with all of this in mind. Hello?

[Tony]

With all this.

[Megan Ashley]

I. I knew all of this before it was going to happen and created everyone with everything in mind. The people that were the nearest to me during that time were the people who could steward me during that time. And then as I was being healed through the community that he gave me, then when he brought in new people, I could still.

[Tony]

I was ready. I was ready. Shoot.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Tony]

Yes. Here. Here's what I really want people to lean into, too. There is a way, in my personal opinion, to do healthy community. And I think it involves holiness. I'm telling you, this book, what I've written, it has scriptures all in it. We're talking about the Aaron and the Moses and even Noah and his family. He couldn't build that ark by himself. Like, they doubted him. But he needed a community of people to also build with him.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, community is biblical from the beginning.

[Tony]

From the beginning to the end. And we just have to catch on to the fact that there is an unhealthy way to do community and a healthy one. And I think the healthy one involves holiness. I. I mean, I. I truly do not want us to. To be the people. That's like, we exclude anyone outside of friendship that is not a believer that doesn't have. I. I understand. I think there's a space for discipleship.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

I have people in my house all the time from my gym, Spades nights, this and that. Because I believe that we are supposed to.

[Megan Ashley]

Again, to invite me to Spades night. Okay. Go ahead, continue.

[Tony]

My bad. I publicly repent. I just don't know how you. Because the people that become. You know what I'm saying? It's a little different. It's like my discipleship model.

[Megan Ashley]

It's okay because I was out. I learned how to play space.

[Tony]

Like I want to say it. Okay, great. Okay. Well, I mean, I don't curse, but I just want to make sure that you are aware.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm fine with that.

[Tony]

Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Go ahead.

[Tony]

So. But the truth is, like, we were made for community. But I think. And I think less buts, more ands, and I think we were made to do it in a certain way.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

I think there's conversation to be had. I think people be drifting into friendships, acting like everything's okay when you actually have friendship needs. I don't like that's. Like, I don't do too well with friends that are. That kind of make fun of you. Like, the whole. I don't do that. I don't like that. Like, don't make fun of me. Don't make fun of me front of everybody. I don't like it. I'm not gonna do that to you, and I don't want you to do that to me. But if you don't voice the need and you're like, oh, I don't really like that, and I'm out, then you don't give people an opportunity to grow and become more holy.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yes.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good.

[Tony]

There's ways to do this well. And I just think we haven't. No one's talking about it.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

No one's talking about what it looks like for me. I actually had a conversation with a friend and was like, hey, I'd love to go deeper in our relationship. Not saying you have to, but I take community very seriously. And I just. I want to let you know I value our friendship, what we do have right now, as acquaintances, but I'd love to go deeper. And she was like, wow, no one has ever said that to me. I'm like, yeah. I'm just gonna assume that we besties.

[Megan Ashley]

That's emotional maturity, though. That's emotional maturity.

[Tony]

When we become. When we fight for wholeness and holiness and healing, everything becomes better.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Not just our souls and our hearts, not just our marriages, but our friendships should, too.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

They should actually become healthier.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

And better.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Especially with Christ at the center. I feel like that I. I don't know how you have a healthy. You know what I'm saying? Relationship without Christ at this. And I've learned that a lot more.

[Tony]

I just. There's no moral compass.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Tony]

There's no North Star. Who are we following? Ja Rule. I mean, I don't even know why I said Ja Rule, but. Lord, he's still alive. Lord, I got nervous. I almost said dmx. He's not alive.

[Megan Ashley]

Rest in peace, Rip. Anyways, he made great music.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Hello.

[Tony]

Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay. So in your book, you talk about the four S's.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And I love the Four S's. So tell us about the four S's.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And why was that. Why was that important to you to include in this book about community?

[Tony]

Yeah. So the four S's are to be seen soothe, safe and secure. And the way that Dr. Kurt Thompson unpacks this is that we all come into this world looking for someone, looking for us. And our innate needs are to be seen soothed, safe and secure, whether we like it or not. I mean, when a baby comes out, they're just like, what is happening? Does anyone know? They're like turtles without a shell, you know? And they're looking to be found. They're looking to be seen. Like, help me soothed. I want to be burped and fed. Like, that's. I mean, that's what a little bitty, tiny baby needs. Secure attachment. Everybody's talking about, like, attachment stuff and all the things, but it starts off it. I mean, secure attachment is formed from 0 to 13. So we need, like, safe people that's processing through information. Parents should be processing their information, doing all the things. For some odd reason, we think we stop needing the four S's when we become adults. We're like, okay, I was raised. No.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Our whole life. I mean, we are just continuing to be raised.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

Raised up to look like Jesus. Raised up to be moms and dads and husbands and wives. We are all still growing and learning and doing all the things.

[Megan Ashley]

Seriously.

[Tony]

So we actually still need to be seen. Because how many times have we entered a room and been like, oh, my gosh, I don't know anybody here. Is anybody. Oh, girl. Lord, I thought I was here by myself. Hey, girl, you was a little late. How many, like, we want to be soothed whether we like it or not. How many times have we had those moments where we're like, hey, girl, you okay? I'm fine. I'm good. And then I just put that little hand on you. It's okay. Come on. When we're in pain, we don't want correction. We want comfort. We. We still need to be soothed, and we still need to be safe and not like, oh, I'm creating a safe space. Spaces are not safe. I don't know what anyone's talking about at this point. It's very weird to me that we have said, then, this church is a safe space. No. What are y' all talking about? I could set on fire at any moment. What are you saying?

[Megan Ashley]

And it's filled with humans.

[Tony]

And it's filled with humans. What we're really Talking about is safe human beings, safe people. People that can hold your stuff and stop gossiping. It's why it's so freaking important for us to stop telling everybody's business. Because we're breaching the trust of people. And it. We're literally costing them their future healthy friendships.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

We.

[Tony]

Because we are not healthy and we are not safe. Safe people.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yes.

[Tony]

That's what we're actually talking about. We're not creating safe spaces and environments. What we should be doing is being a safe person so that we can create safety for people.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that.

[Tony]

And when you have those three S's, you feel seen by someone deeply. They know you for real, for real, everything that you've done. And they love you the same. When you feel soothed, like, I can come to you with my stuff and you ain't gonna be like, girl, get over that. Dang, you still crying? He wasn't even that cute. No way. Yes, he was. He was fine. I'm ghost following him. Okay. And when we feel safe, then it creates secure attachment. Yeah, and I could go on and on about this. Secure attachment is so important because we have a propensity as people to project our earthly relationships on our heavenly Father. And we are making it really difficult for people to trust an unseen God because the people that we see are not safe and not good. And they say that they're gonna be, they love Jesus all. And we are tainting people's ability. Like I get, I mean, 21, 22 year old Tony, who believed the good in people. When I saw that there were just really mean people, I started to project that on God. We must be mean too. I mean, good Lord, like all these people, they say they love him and they're pastors and they're doing all this stuff. Then if this is what holiness looks like, then oh my gosh, that's really, maybe a really mean guy. And I'm not saying we have to coddle believers, but I am saying that our faith grows. It starts off super small and fragile, the size of a mustard seed. And we have to like, care for the people that are just exposing themselves.

[Megan Ashley]

And I think it's, you know, I think it's really hard to be that for people when you haven't accepted that from the God. Do you see what I'm saying? And I think that people hurt people because they haven't, they haven't received that security and that soothing and that safety and that, that attack. They haven't received. Receive that from God and it's available. It's available.

[Tony]

And from that, you get to overflow.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes. And now, because I've received that from our Heavenly Father, it's a privilege and an honor to do my best to be that for someone else.

[Tony]

I know.

[Megan Ashley]

But I think that it starts with receiving that 100 from him first. Do you know what I mean?

[Tony]

I do know what you mean. My friend Anne Voskamp says that we get to be Jesus with skin on.

[Megan Ashley]

We do, basically.

[Tony]

It's weird a little bit.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

But I like it.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, Daddy got.

[Tony]

We get Jesus with skin on. We get to live like, this cruciform life like him.

[Megan Ashley]

We do.

[Tony]

And it makes us better friends.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Tony]

And better moms and dads and husbands and wives and daughters and sons.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Tony]

I'm even nicer to my mama now.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, I'm. I feel like you know what I'm saying?

[Tony]

Because I was a little fight there was sometimes you can't tell me, but because Jesus has transformed me, I want to be him to people in the ways that he wants me to.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that community. Okay. So I didn't get through half of the things that I wanted to talk about, so that's awesome. Hate that. For me, however. What do you want?

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, two questions. Number one, what do you want every reader to walk away with?

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, deeply, like, what do you like for the people who have been broken? The people who are in community? Not in community. Just every person who picks up this book. If you had to pick one thing for them to walk away with, what is that? That's my first question and then my second one. Are you ready?

[Tony]

I'm gonna try to retain it.

[Megan Ashley]

I think you can retain it.

[Tony]

I can do it.

[Megan Ashley]

You got this.

[Tony]

I'm focus. Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

That's your focus phase.

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

You've already forgotten the first question. Do you remember the first question?

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

You remember it?

[Tony]

Yeah.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

The second question is, what is a journal prompt for our listeners to process this and as they're reading your book? Because Tony's book is going to be on my Amazon storefront, so make sure you guys go get it.

[Tony]

Number one, I want people to know that they were not designed to do this life alone, literally, by design. Which means that when you choose to hide, you are working against your design, which is, like, crazy work.

[Megan Ashley]

Correct.

[Tony]

Okay, so that's number one. I forgot. Number two. Oh, I got a journal prompt. Got it. And I have journal prompts at the end of every chapter.

[Megan Ashley]

I love this.

[Tony]

And one of them that stands out for me is what happened to you? That keeps you from letting people in. Name it. Because if you're not willing to name it, then you can't heal it. Name it. What happened to you? We did not come into this world. Not.

[Megan Ashley]

And what really happened? Like.

[Tony]

Like, for real. For real.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

What.

[Tony]

What happened? And how did it impact you to the point where you don't want to trust anyone else? What happened? Name it.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

That's good.

[Tony]

Name it out loud.

[Megan Ashley]

July. No, August 19th.

[Tony]

My birthday is July 19th. That's what's happened. All the. 19th is so weird. The Lord.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, yeah. Last year, we had your part.

[Tony]

Your.

[Megan Ashley]

Your big 33, right?

[Tony]

33. That's right. And 34 is coming July 20th. You need to come.

[Megan Ashley]

I mean, but what are you doing?

[Tony]

Your rsvp.

[Megan Ashley]

You didn't send it.

[Tony]

I did send something. Okay, I'll. I'll. I'll check that when I leave. Dang it. But you got the endorsement.

[Megan Ashley]

But is it. Is it.

[Tony]

You get that?

[Megan Ashley]

And I sent that in. What, are you having a party?

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Is it another, like, big party?

[Tony]

Yeah. Oh, I love it. It's like, 70 people RSVP. It's my favorite thing to do ever. I love people, truly.

[Megan Ashley]

I know you do.

[Tony]

I can't even wait. I'll have more clothes on this year.

[Megan Ashley]

He was out here last year again.

[Tony]

Accountability community. I'm like, oh, you okay? We okay? I don't know. I got swole. It was crazy. I felt so fit. I was like, I'm gonna show these arms.

[Megan Ashley]

Anyway, I'm excited to see your outfit. Maybe you should send a picture of what you're gonna wear.

[Tony]

I have it, actually, and I haven't tried it on yet, so how about I try it on and show you?

[Megan Ashley]

If it's too much top glory, if it's too much top glue, I'm saying. All right.

[Tony]

And I want you to, honestly. Because there was a moment there where I didn't. I was a little blind. I don't know.

[Megan Ashley]

I would be like, Tony.

[Tony]

I was like a nun in my marriage. So then, I don't know, I went. The pendulum swing too far.

[Megan Ashley]

That's fine. There's grace for you.

[Tony]

Well, I had to delete some things.

[Megan Ashley]

Jody, I love you. Thank you for coming on. You're welcome back any other time.

[Tony]

Okay. Literally, roll up to the crib. Hey, y' all recording?

[Megan Ashley]

It doesn't have to be a recording. You could just.

[Tony]

Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. I will come.

[Megan Ashley]

You just come hang out.

[Tony]

I would.

[Megan Ashley]

I love you. I'm so happy for just where you are and you were in, like, a huge encouragement.

[Tony]

I don't.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't say it enough. I'm not great with mushy stuff.

[Tony]

Okay, this is good. You're doing great. You said I love you like, seven times already. That's good.

[Megan Ashley]

And I mean it because I don't say it if I don't mean it.

[Tony]

I know. It's really good.

[Megan Ashley]

I actually don't. But I don't say it enough that you are an encouragement to me and.

[Tony]

Not gonna do that. Nope, I don't wanna. I lied. I don't want to do that. This is good.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't want to do that.

[Tony]

I love crying.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, never mind. I love you.

[Tony]

Love you, too.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm just really just.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

There aren't a lot of people that can go through what you went through and to hold joy, you know? So I love you for that. And you're great.

[Tony]

Go get her book to get out of here. Let them fall. Your tears are stunning.

[Megan Ashley]

Thanks. Anyway, thanks, guys. See you next week. Bye, y'.

[Guest/Supportive Friend]

All.

[Tony]

Gotta go.

[Megan Ashley]

What's up, you guys? I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you felt encouraged in some way. Be sure to like and follow into Tality Podcast everywhere you listen to your favorite shows. Follow in totality on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and be sure to turn on your post notifications so that you can be the first to listen whenever there's a new episode.