Podcast Summary

Podcast: In Totality with Megan Ashley
Episode: EP 86: Being Kept By Perfect Love
Host: Megan Ashley
Guest: Lisa Brunson
Date: September 2, 2025

Overview:

This deeply personal and faith-centered episode brings together host Megan Ashley and her longtime mentor and friend, worship leader Lisa Brunson. The two women explore the sustaining power of God's perfect love amid anxiety, disappointment, and church hurt. Backed by scripture, candid storytelling, and vulnerability, their conversation touches on generational faith, overcoming isolation and shame, authentic service in the church, mothering with grace, and how brokenness can draw us closer to experiencing God's keeping power. Special attention is given to Lisa's testimony of battling anxiety and how this birthed her song "Perfect Love" and the viral “even when I don't see it...” bridge to “Waymaker.”

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introductions & Relationship Background

[03:16 – 08:59]

• Megan introduces Lisa as someone who's known her “probably half of my life” – as a “big sister,” mentor, and her favorite worship leader.
• Lisa responds emotionally, expressing her pride and love for Megan, highlighting the multi-season depth of their relationship.
• They reminisce about their shared church history, transitioning from teens to wives and mothers together.

Quote:
“I am literally so beyond proud of you... watching you navigate so many seasons of life...to see what God has done in you and because you allowed him to do it...”
– Lisa, [04:04]

2. Lisa’s Story & Calling

[07:25 – 09:00]

• Lisa shares about her family (married 16 years, two daughters), passions (worship, family, kingdom), and early calling to serve and teach young believers.
• Emphasizes importance of living kingdom-minded, belonging to community, and serving the local church.

3. Discipleship, Zeal, and Heart Health in the Church

[09:00 – 16:43]

• Megan recounts Lisa’s pivotal role in her spiritual formation, especially in helping her understand that serving God flows from being loved by Him—not trying to earn it.
• Lisa describes her role as cultivating both “zeal and knowledge” in young Christians, stressing that what sustains faith in life’s real trials is knowing and applying scripture.
• They discuss the dangers of serving from selfish ambition or insecurity, and the temptation to “earn” God’s love.

Quote:
“My heart was to apply knowledge and to teach knowledge to go along with the zeal... what does living for the Lord really mean, day in and day out?”
– Lisa, [12:41]

4. Kingdom vs. Church Mentality; Community & Vulnerability

[16:44 – 28:36]

• Lisa demarcates the difference between local church focus and a kingdom mindset—being Christ’s ambassadors in every life sphere.
• Their dialogue examines the trends of “aesthetic” Christianity vs. authentic transformation, and the necessity of being more than just “hearers of the word.”
• They discuss why community, discipleship, accountability, and healing from church hurt are vital to faith maturity, with grace and forgiveness as central themes.

Quote:
“Jesus was hurt by the church too... and he still gave his life for it.”
– Lisa, [26:30]

5. Parenting & Discipling Children in Faith

[28:36 – 34:32]

• Lisa outlines practical discipleship as a parent: loving her kids unconditionally, applying grace before discipline, and placing honesty and openness over shame.
• Emphasizes the importance of not letting ministry overshadow the primacy of family, and modeling authentic faith at home.

Quote:
“Our natural tendency when we do something wrong is we want to hide...in the daily practices in our home, we're trying to teach them just come to us honestly.”
– Lisa, [30:29]

6. Serving vs. Abiding: Becoming Mary Instead of Martha

[34:36 – 41:39]

• Megan opens up about the difficulty of abiding in God’s presence (being Mary), instead of defaulting to busyness and serving (Martha).
• Lisa teaches about the spiritual discipline of rest and Sabbath, and how busyness can numb us to intimacy with God.

Quote:
“Busyness distracts us from the things that really matter... It's never been about performing. It's never been about perfection.”
– Lisa, [38:18/40:11]

7. Testimony: Lisa’s Journey through Anxiety & Healing

[44:55 – 57:42]

• Lisa vulnerably details her battle with debilitating anxiety and panic attacks post-childbirth, when mental illness was stigmatized and undiscussed, especially in ministry.
• Finding God in her extreme weakness forced her to relearn God’s heart: that He cares about more than her “public” successes—He cares about her internal battles.
• The experience inspired the song “Perfect Love” and a new understanding that God’s love—received, not earned—casts out fear.

Quote:
“It was six or seven years of like really, living this...there was this side of me that everyone knew, and then there was the other side...my husband had to deal with...But God kept me.”
– Lisa, [49:37/57:42]

8. Practical Faith: Mindfulness, Therapy, & “Kept by God”

[60:06 – 64:39]

• Lisa affirms that healing doesn’t erase temptation or difficulty; practical steps (limiting news, grounding, repeating scripture, therapy) are acts of stewardship of her mind and soul.
• Psalmic honesty—casting her cares onto God, visualizing handing Him her fears—combines with inner discipline to keep her “kept.”
• The necessity of integrating spiritual and practical helps is a recurring theme.

Quote:
“We've made the Bible so spiritual that we miss the practicality in all of it.”
– Lisa, [63:54]

9. Perfect Love & Weakness: The Gospel in Brokenness

[64:52 – 71:37]

• Megan shares how Lisa’s song “Perfect Love” ministered to her in her own battle with depression and self-harm, especially the line “You are for me.”
• They reflect on how suffering, acknowledged weakness, and vulnerability are transformative—allowing God's power to be perfected.

Quote:
“He didn’t die to make us perfect. He died to make us holy.”
– Lisa, [68:30]

10. The Story Behind the Viral Bridge of “Waymaker”

[75:18 – 83:12]

• Lisa reveals the origin of the bridge—“Even when I don’t see it, you’re working...” She created it as a prophetic declaration while her husband was losing his sight despite fervent faith and prayer.
• The story illustrates faith’s tension: trusting God’s character when earthly outcomes aren’t as hoped.

Quote:
“The part she's talking about...even when I don't feel it, you're working...That lyric was about my husband. Like, he literally...doesn’t see out of that eye...”
– Lisa, [76:30/82:04]

11. Testimony, Suffering, and the Lord’s Timing

[83:40 – 85:41]

• Lisa stresses the wisdom in knowing when to testify; sometimes, years pass before a story becomes ready to publicly share.
• Both Megan and Lisa encourage listeners to share their testimony in community, not just on public platforms.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “God, make me sensitive to the needs of your people...I gave you what you asked for, but when I give, I give in abundance. Now you have to learn how to manage what you asked for.” – Lisa, [18:55]
• “I’m going to exchange my weakness, my brokenness, my fragility...for your perfected strength.” – Megan, [70:42]
• “Some difficulties I think we bring on ourselves, and then some difficulties I think God brings...he uses all of it to make us more like Jesus.” – Lisa, [69:48]
• “God is still working. All the time.” – Lisa, [85:50]

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [03:16] – Warm, emotional introduction; Lisa’s “proud big sister” blessing
• [14:44] – Tim Keller’s Prodigal Son insight: repenting not only of sin but of motives for goodness
• [19:00] – “Create in me a clean heart” as life prayer; managing sensitivity not suppressing it
• [26:30] – “Jesus was hurt by the church, too—and he still gave his life for it.”
• [30:25] – “If you tell the truth, you’ll never get in trouble”; parenting for grace, not guilt
• [34:36] – The Mary/Martha tension; learning to sit before serving
• [46:28] – Lisa’s transparent account of her first post-partum panic attack and subsequent years
• [53:13] – Anxiety reveals a root: “I didn’t really believe God had good for me”
• [55:29] – Isaiah 53:7 and the cross: “the stripes that he took were for my peace”
• [75:18] – The story behind the “Waymaker” bridge and its connection to deep personal suffering
• [87:37] – Journal prompt: “Today I’m going to trust God with ___.”

Journal Prompt

“Today I’m going to trust God with _____.”
– Lisa Brunson, [87:37]

Tone & Takeaway

With unvarnished honesty and warm encouragement, Megan and Lisa model authentic Christian friendship and faith formation. The episode affirms that God’s love is not a reward for our spiritual performance, but a transforming power that keeps, heals, and restores, especially in weakness. Whatever your struggle—anxiety, disappointment, church hurt, or weary service—the call is to bring your whole heart to God, trusting that His perfect love truly casts out fear.

For listeners who missed the episode, this summary gives a clear map of the vulnerable stories, spiritual insights, and practical faith tools discussed, complete with notable moments and quotes to revisit or reflect upon further.