EP 96: Living Beyond Offense: With Yana Jenay Conner

Summary

In Totality with Megan Ashley – EP 96: Living Beyond Offense: With Yana Jenay Connor

Release Date: November 11, 2025
Host: Megan Ashley
Guest: Yana Jenay Connor

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Episode Overview

This episode welcomes author and ministry leader Yana Jenay Connor to discuss her new book, Living Beyond Offense. Together, Megan and Yana explore the tricky territory of forgiveness and offense within the Christian life, moving through personal stories, biblical truths, and practical strategies for being a "shalom maker" in a divided world. The conversation is honest and compassionate, balancing spiritual challenge with real-world empathy for listeners wrestling with forgiveness in the wake of deep hurt.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Yana's Journey to Faith and Ministry

[06:45–10:16]

• Yana grew up in church but didn't truly understand the gospel until college.
• Her spiritual journey included a "wild out" phase and a pivotal moment of feeling empty after a party, prompting surrender to God.
• After understanding the gospel fully on a ministry project, she became active in Bible study leadership and discipleship.
• Yana transitioned from hopes of nursing to a calling in ministry, eventually becoming an adult ministry director and now an author.

2. The Book’s Genesis: Why Write on Offense?

[13:07–16:32]

• Forgiveness wasn’t initially Yana's choice of book topic—she pitched other ideas but sensed God’s nudge and the publisher’s interest aligned here.
• She struggled, feeling unqualified amidst her own unforsaken relationships, even “ghosting” her publisher for two months.
• The conviction solidified after seeing widespread hurt and offense in church contexts and on social media, leading to disunity.
• She emphasizes the ongoing need for biblical teaching on offense: “If unity is the thing that reveals God to the world, then what do you think disunity does?” (Yana, 15:25)

3. Why Forgiveness Is So Difficult

[16:34–21:13]

• Megan and Yana agree forgiveness is "almost impossible" without the Holy Spirit.
• Pain & Justice: Forgiveness is hard because wounds are real, justice is a God-given desire, and we misunderstand what forgiveness means.
• Forgiveness is not:
  • Forgetting or ignoring sin
  • Resetting the relationship as if nothing happened
  • Immediate reconciliation or trust restoration
• Forgiveness is:
  • “The merciful decision to release an offender of their debt and not retaliate in anger.” (Yana, paraphrasing her synthesized definition, 20:27)
  • An act of mercy, not a feeling—a one-time decision that’s walked out continuously.

4. Dealing with Ongoing Feelings – Did I Really Forgive?

[22:01–26:33]

• Out-of-sight forgiveness is easier. True forgiveness is tested when the offender is present and triggers resurface.
• Key Insight: “Just because we have those feelings doesn’t mean we didn’t forgive. What matters is what we do with those feelings—do we submit to the Spirit or to the flesh?” (Yana, 25:17)
• Forgiveness is an ongoing act: “You make the one-time decision…and then you continue to walk in it.” (Yana, 21:13)

5. Forgiveness Is Not Optional for Christians

[28:18–33:42]

• Jesus connects forgiveness directly to one’s eternity (see Matthew 18, Lord’s Prayer).
• Quote: “Jesus has an expectation that anyone who’s received his forgiveness will extend his forgiveness.” (Yana, 29:01)
• Unforgiveness is evidence of a failure to grasp the gospel’s depths.
• Megan: “When you choose not to forgive, you’re choosing to be God.” (28:18)

6. Practical Strategies: Preach the Gospel to Yourself

[33:42–36:04]

• Megan shares practical advice: posture physically in prayer and rehearse the gospel to cultivate humility, compassion, and a readiness to forgive.
• “If forgiveness is hard for you, maybe you need to start by meditating on the gospel.” (Yana, 32:58)

7. Trusting God for Justice: Processing Anger and Injustice

[36:14–39:11]

• Yana references Psalm 37: Don’t fret over evildoers—God will cause your justice to shine.
• “God’s not just trying to vindicate his name; He’s trying to vindicate yours.” (Yana, 38:12)

8. Shalom Makers: Avoidant vs. Demanding Approaches to Offense

[39:29–44:56]

• Shalom avoidant: Protecting one's peace by withdrawing from offenders; “good vibes only” culture can result in unhealthy avoidance.
• Shalom demanding: Fighting to restore peace by demanding repayment or retaliation—“I’m gonna get my lick back.”
• True biblical command: Be a shalom maker (creator of wholeness and harmony), not just a protector of your own peace.

Pastoral Guidance for Each Type:

• Shalom demanding: “Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.” Trust God for justice. (Yana, 43:11)
• Shalom avoidant: Draw from the gospel’s uniting force and step toward reconciliation and unity.

9. Who Are You Partnering With in Conflict?

[46:22–49:56]

• At every flashpoint, we must choose: partner with the enemy (“agent of chaos”) or with God (agent of shalom).
• “Who am I going to decide to partner with?… What would bring God glory?” (Megan, 47:17)
• Learning to pause, reflect, and choose the Spirit instead of reacting according to hurt or anger.

10. Recognizing the Spiritual Battle Behind Relational Tensions

[49:57–51:15]

• Paul’s admonition that “we wrestle not against flesh and blood” (Ephesians 6) reframes offense as spiritual warfare, reminding us to see past the immediate conflict.
• “Behind every relational conflict is a spiritual battle.” (Yana, 49:57)

11. Offense Culture and Social Media

[51:15–55:26]

• Megan and Yana critique the “culture of offense” on social media, where people seem to seek opportunities for outrage as a means of projecting unresolved hurts.
• Yana: “If you’re someone who’s looking to be offended, I wonder if you’re looking for a place to let go of your anger.” (53:44)

12. Personal Story: Forgiving Her Father

[55:26–63:34]

• Yana’s father struggled with alcoholism and was intermittently absent, which left deep wounds.
• An eventual honest conversation opened reconciliation—shortly before her father’s unexpected death.
• “I had to see my dad as a human, as someone who’s broken and fallen… and forgive the dad that I have.” (Yana, 60:47)
• Experience cultivated urgency: “Don’t just think that you’ll have time; that’s not promised.” (Yana, 63:34)

13. Urgency and Obedience

[64:05–66:07]

• Both hosts reflect on spiritual urgency: the enemy acts quickly, so should believers when prompted to forgive or reconcile.

14. Most Challenging Part of Writing: Forgiveness After Abuse

[66:34–71:18]

• Yana’s hardest chapter was on forgiveness in cases of abuse. She is careful to clarify that forgiveness is not reconciliation or excusing evil. Abuse survivors need space for healing, and “forgiveness is a decision, not a reset button.”
• “I wanted to create enough space for people to be where they are, but also to call them up.” (Yana, 67:20)
• She addresses unhelpful Christian clichés used in response to abuse ("God will give you double for your trouble", etc.), encouraging a more nuanced, scripturally and pastorally sensitive approach.

15. How to Have Hope After Being Hurt or Betrayed

[71:41–77:14]

• Don’t displace blame for offense on God or yourself—recognize the offender’s responsibility.
• Yana shares wisdom from a mentor: “You may not be able to trust your dad, but you can trust God. Not to keep you from harm, but to heal you again if someone hurts you.” (74:09)
• God’s track record is faithfulness and healing, even when people fail.

16. Walking Forward: Encouragement to Build Shalom

[77:56–84:01]

• There are trustworthy people in the world; community is necessary for when we face offense.
• God often pre-positions new sources of support even before we know we’ll need them.
• “I want people… that a movement of shalom makers would rise… a movement of people who are compassionate, merciful, kind, who embody the character of Christ, who are slow to anger, less quick to offense…” (Yana, 80:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "If unity is the thing that reveals God to the world, then what do you think disunity does?"

  • Yana Connor, 15:25

• "An offended Christian is a Christian who's forgotten what they've been forgiven of."

  • Megan Ashley quoting John Bevere, 12:26

• "Forgiveness is the merciful decision to release an offender of their debt and to not retaliate against them in anger... It's not a feeling. It's just you making a decision to forgive them, and walking in that."

  • Yana Connor, 20:52–21:13

• "Who am I going to partner with? Am I going to partner with Satan and be an agent of chaos, or am I going to partner with the Lord and be an agent of shalom?"

  • Megan Ashley, 47:10

• "Behind every relational conflict is a spiritual battle."

  • Yana Connor, 49:57

• "God’s not just trying to vindicate his name; He’s trying to vindicate yours… He’s going to cause your righteousness and your justice to shine like the noonday sun."

  • Yana Connor, 38:12

• "You may not be able to trust your dad, but you can trust God...not to keep you safe from harm, but to heal you again."

  • Yana Connor, 74:09

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Important Timestamps

• Yana's background/story: [06:45]
• Why Forgiveness? Book Genesis: [13:07]
• Forgiveness defined; why it’s hard: [16:34]
• Walking out forgiveness amid ongoing emotions: [22:01]
• The non-negotiable of forgiveness in Christian faith: [28:18]
• Preaching the gospel to yourself (practical tool): [33:42]
• Justice, anger, and Psalm 37: [36:14]
• Shalom avoidant vs. demanding: [39:29]
• Spiritual warfare in conflict: [49:57]
• Yana's story of forgiving her father: [55:26]
• Processing urgency in forgiveness (when time runs out): [64:05]
• Writing on forgiveness after abuse: [66:34]
• Cultivating hope after deep hurt: [71:41]
• Vision for a movement of shalom makers: [80:20]

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Final Takeaways

• Forgiveness is essential and ongoing for the Christian walk.
• True shalom is made, not just protected—this means running toward reconciliation, not away from hard conversations.
• Offense is the enemy’s powerful tool for disunity; Christians are called to radical, proactive peacemaking.
• The courage to forgive is anchored in remembering the gospel and trusting God’s justice and ability to heal.
• Time is not guaranteed; move urgently when prompted to mend relationships.
• A movement of “shalom makers” starts with one decision, one act of mercy, one refusal to take Satan’s bait.

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Connect with Yana Jenay Connor and get her book, "Living Beyond Offense," via Megan’s Amazon storefront or major retailers.
Support the Shalom Movement—be a peacemaker in your world.

(For additional insights, resources, and candid conversations, join Megan’s Patreon community, The Village.)

Transcript

[Megan Ashley]

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[Yana Connor]

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[Megan Ashley]

So what are you waiting for?

[Yana Connor]

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[Megan Ashley]

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[Yana Connor]

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[Megan Ashley]

Visit t mobile.com familyfreedom.

[Yana Connor]

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[Megan Ashley]

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[Yana Connor]

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[Megan Ashley]

In balance due if you pay off earlier.

[Yana Connor]

Cancel Contact Us.

[Megan Ashley]

What'S up fam? Listen if you've been blessed by In Totality the podcast, then I want to personally invite you to go deeper by joining our Patreon community called the Village. Every Tuesday morning, the Village members get early access to the full episode of the podcast two days before it drops publicly on YouTube. So while everyone else is waiting, you're already soaking it in. But that's just the beginning. As a Village member, you get exclusive access to the In Totality Docu series. It's a behind the scenes look at how I walk on my faith in real life. No filters, no fluff, just real moments of me trusting the Lord, processing life and growing in truth. We also do live book club zoom calls where we read and grow together in the Word. I'm not just talking at you worth walking through it together, asking questions, wrestling through scriptures, learning to follow Christ more fully. You know, like that Romans 12. You'll also get bonus content, extra conversations with podcast guests that go even deeper, plus moments that didn't make it to the episode but were just too good not to share. And one more thing, when you join the Village, you get first access to merch before it drops public. So if you love the message and you want to rep the move, you'll get first dibs every time. But more than the content, the Village is About community. It's a safe place for believers to connect and grow and be reminded that you're not doing this walk alone. You're a part of something real. We're building something special, and we would love for you to be a part. So hit pause. Go to www.patreon.com meganashley and join today and I'll meet you there. Everybody needs a wild out season, right?

[Yana Connor]

I mean, I don't. Everybody needs. We have to do something with what Jesus says, right?

[Megan Ashley]

We have to take it serious.

[Yana Connor]

We can't water, water it down.

[Megan Ashley]

My feelings be fast.

[Yana Connor]

Same, same, same.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I'm saying? And I got a mouth.

[Yana Connor]

If God's goal is unity, then. Then what you think this. This joke on. And I just begin to cry. Like, I just weep. And I'm like, check, please get me out of here immediately.

[Megan Ashley]

So.

[Yana Connor]

So I leave and my dad calls. Like, he just picks like. And I'm like, excuse me.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm like, ugh. Is that conviction? I like it. Yeah, I like it. What's up, you guys? Welcome back to another episode of In Totality. I'm your host, Megan Ashley. I'm so excited because I have another guest. I love having guests, y'.

[Yana Connor]

All.

[Megan Ashley]

I can sit and talk to people all day, especially about the things of the Lord y' all already know. And so today I'm so excited because this is a newbie to the couch and she will be back because I'm gonna make her come back again and again and again and again. Because we could talk about her new book for episodes on episodes. I'm sure. But everybody welcome. Now, Yana, I do not know. Connor.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay. Yeah, Yana, Connor. I was like, now let me make sure I remember her last name. Yana's here.

[Yana Connor]

Hey, girl. Hey, friend. How are you? I'm good, I'm good. I'm so, so overjoyed to be here.

[Megan Ashley]

Mentality already through the roof.

[Yana Connor]

So thank you.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm so excited you're here. So I met Yana, y', all in New York.

[Yana Connor]

Yes.

[Megan Ashley]

This year at Priscilli's conference. And it literally. It was like time had stopped. I didn't see anyone around me. I just was locked into this conversation. And I was like, I could literally talk to you all day. I was like, I could literally talk to you all day.

[Yana Connor]

We only left because we had to.

[Megan Ashley]

Literally. We only got because they were forcing us out of the room. But we sat for that short amount of time that we sat and talked. I was like, oh, my gosh we have. Like, our stories are so similar. And I was like, yeah, this is my new friend. I'm going to talk to her all the time. So I'm so excited you're here.

[Yana Connor]

I'm happy to be here.

[Megan Ashley]

How do you feel?

[Yana Connor]

I feel good. Yeah. It's been a fun day. I love Atlanta one because some of my favorite people are here in Atlanta. So I've gotten some opportunity to spend time with friends who feel like family. And what was funny is I flew in and I was feeling like I was on the verge of a tantrum. Like. Like, the stewardess was like. Kept coming down the aisle, and I was like, ma', am, if you hit me with your hip one more time, like, we gonna. We gonna have some problems. And then the per. Yeah, it was just a lot. And I was like, it's me. It's not y'. All. But as soon as I got here and got with my friend and her family, like, everything just kind of like. And so it was just really cool to have people in my life who ground me like that. And I could just be myself, my cranky self.

[Megan Ashley]

You need that. You need people you can be cranky with.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. And they still gonna love you, and.

[Megan Ashley]

They gonna love you for Ignore you. Ignore is the key.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

There you go. She'll be fine.

[Yana Connor]

So. Yes, I'm doing good. I'm good. I'm happy to be here.

[Megan Ashley]

Awesome. Well, you have a new book, and it's called Living Beyond Offense. I am so excited to talk about this book.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And I feel bad because I'm like, usually when I have people on the couch for the first time, I'm like, this is the opportunity for us to get to know you. And I wanna get to know you, but I really wanna get into this book. So we're gonna. We're gonna dignify you and tell us about you. Tell us who you are. And before, like, how did we get to the point? Before the book?

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Yana's story before the book.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. So originally from St. Louis, Missouri, I came to Faith in college, my sophomore year of college. My stepdad was an elder in our church, so I grew up in church, but I didn't really understand the gospel. Like, I knew that Jesus went to the cross, but I didn't that quite put together why that was possible. And so it wasn't until I was at college. Wow. Trying to, you know, doing my thing.

[Megan Ashley]

Everybody needs a wild out season. Right.

[Yana Connor]

I mean, I don't think everybody needs. Not me.

[Megan Ashley]

That ain't the Right word.

[Yana Connor]

But it is something the Lord can use. It's something that the Lord can use.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm like, everybody, everybody who's like, serious about their faith had a wild out season.

[Yana Connor]

I had a wild out season. And I remember like one night coming back from a party and doing. From the after party and doing all the things and just feeling like, completely and utterly empty. And I was just like, man, this is not working. Like, me doing life in my own way, on my own terms, it's not working. And so that began a journey of just like the Lord drawing me back to himself. And I remember just coming to this place of just like, I don't know what it means to be a Christian. I don't know how to live for you. I just know that what I'm doing is not working. And so I was like, help me to live for you. And I don't want to do this, you know, start stop thing where I go down at an altar and snot. And then I come back in like three weeks.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm like, it's the snot.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, doing the same thing. And so I would say on that day, I repented, but that I didn't fully understand the gospel. That didn't actually come until two years later where I'm on a summer project with a ministry called the Impact Movement. And I'm actually a student staff on this project because I had all this leadership ability. And so people thought, you know, like, oh, yeah, she a Christian because she can gather students and galvanize them and all that kind of stuff. It's like, nah, didn't understand the Gospel. And so it wasn't until I was reading this book called Search for Significance that I heard the Gospel for the first time in a way that really helped me to understand that what Jesus did on the cross was enough for me and that there was nothing else that I needed to do but receive his grace by faith. And so came to know the Lord. And then that's when I really feel like my. My journey with the Lord began and started leading Bible studies on my campus, discipling folks, even though I barely knew anything. Sorry, guys. So but was discipling folks. And then I went on staff with that ministry for seven years. And that's how I ended up in Durham, North Carolina. And then after that, two of my mentors, Sandy Hafiz and Kim Gillespie, they were like, hey, sis, we think it's time for you to go to seminary. And I was like, for real? Because they told me four years prior, you're not ready for that. And then it was like, okay, now we think you're ready. And so went to seminary, was a part of a church plant. So still in ministry while I was doing that, and then a couple of other jobs. And now I serve as the adult ministry director at a church called Vertical Church. We're a small church right outside of Durham. I love the people at Vertical Church. They are my family. And then sometimes I write, and sometimes people invite me to come and do stuff like this or preach at their churches. And so. So, yeah, so I. I living something that I never envisioned for myself. I wanted to be a nurse. I wanted stability.

[Megan Ashley]

You know, you have the mannerisms of, like, you have good side, like, good bedside manner. I could see you. I could. I could see you being like, well, I'm so. I'm so grateful that the Lord decided to use you in a different way.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

But I could definitely see you being like, yeah, yeah.

[Yana Connor]

I love people. I want them to be well. And I remember when I didn't get into nursing school, and that was when I really, like, experienced a call to ministry. And the Lord was just like, can take care of people's bodies or you can take care of people's souls. And the souls are eternal. That is the thing that, you know, that lasts forever. And so that is a more worthy work to give yourself over to.

[Megan Ashley]

That's so nice that he said it to you that way.

[Yana Connor]

It is nice. He.

[Megan Ashley]

Don't be that gentle with me. Do what I say. No, I'm just kidding. It be like, do what I say.

[Yana Connor]

I mean, sometimes he does say things with his chest. Yeah, sometimes.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, I get the chest guy. No, I'm joking. He's kind to me, too. That's so awesome. I think, yeah, I definitely could see you as a nurse. That's crazy. But I am glad that the Lord has used you in this way because you just wrote a book called Living beyond the Fence. If you guys are watching it, it's out right now. Make sure you go to my Amazon storefront to get the book. You guys know I. I claim to be the Christian Oprah. Everybody's going to get a book. Everybody's going to get. I am that person. I'm like a book club person. Like, I love promoting books, but this book, you talked to me about it briefly when we were in New York, and I was like, oh, man, this book sounds like really important because offense. The first time that I kind of dove into offense and understood what that meant was when I read the book, the beta Satan by John Bevere. And that book, like, radically transformed my life. And this was the thing that got me. I actually didn't see the book first. I was watching. I was on Instagram, and one of his reels popped up, and my mom has been saved my entire life. She knew who John Bevere was. I never knew who John Bevere was. Maybe I've heard the name, but, like, I didn't know who he was. I'm like, who's this white guy popping up on my Instagram? And at this point, I hadn't given the Lord a serious yes yet. Yet. And so anyway, the real pops up and he says, an offended Christian is a Christian who's forgotten what they've been forgiven of.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And I was like, like, oh, my gosh. What? And so I got the book, read the book, radically transformed my life. And it's. It's interesting because that book is over 30 years old.

[Yana Connor]

I didn't know that. It's over 30 years old.

[Megan Ashley]

Over 30 years old. Wow.

[Yana Connor]

Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

My mom said she read that book when I was little.

[Yana Connor]

Wow. So it.

[Megan Ashley]

So she's like, so the book is 30 years old. And I say that to say that we're still having to write. The Lord is still needing vessels like you to write book about offense. Why was this the topic? Like, bring me. Walk us through how you came to that point where it's like, the Lord's like, yeah, I want you to write a book about offense.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. Yeah. 1. I had no plans. I went to the publisher with five different ideas, and then we were in a meeting, and the conversation turned to forgiveness, and it was like, all the little heads in the zoom squares just started to not like, yes, this is.

[Megan Ashley]

This is the book.

[Yana Connor]

And at first, I was just really excited to have a book deal. And then I was like, wait a minute. I. How am I going to write this book on forgiveness when there are literally people in my life that I have not forgiven yet?

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Yana Connor]

There are people in my life where I have broken relationships with. And I told you, like, I had just had a friend, like, just end our relationship pretty abruptly. And so I was just like, yeah, I don't need to write this book. I'm not qualified to write this book. And so I ghosted the publisher for, like, two months. Yeah. Who does? But that's what I did. I ghosted them for two months. And then I remember going to a conference, and they were having a conversation about church hurt. And in that conversation, I started to notice how people weren't able to Live beyond defense. They weren't able to live beyond the offenses that they were experiencing in church. They were getting stuck so much so that they were leaving the church. And then I started thinking about, like, the people in my life and the relationships I had. I was like, yeah, like, you have a conflict, and then you just kind of deuce out, right? And so this whole idea of, like, living beyond a fence, like, I feel. I felt like personally. And what I was seeing is that people were getting stuck in a fence. And then you see it all on social media, right, as well. Like, we unfollow, you know, or we go angrily to people's comment sections. And I think, you know, in John 17, Jesus prays that the church would be one as him and the Father are one, so that the world might know that God sent Jesus into the world. And it's like, here it is. You see all of this disunity, like, on social media. And if unity is a thing that, like, reveals God to the world, then what do you think disunity does? And so I think part of it, part of the reason why people are so disillusioned with church is because of how badly we behave, you know, on social media and in public. And so I think in this book, for. I felt like the Word was calling me and me inviting other people to come back to the teachings of. Of Jesus. And so even the COVID of the book, the first cover they sent me was, like, really, really trendy and really, really cool. And I. And it wasn't resonating with me. And it was like, yeah, because I want a cover that expresses, like, that the truths of Scripture around forgiveness are timeless and that we need to be called back to them. In the same way that Jesus, like, what was calling the Jew to the commands when he does a Sermon on the Mount, he's like, you've heard it said that it's okay for you to do this, this, and this, but I say to you this. And he does that over and over and over again. And I think, like, if Jesus were to enter our context, he would say, you heard it said that it's okay to cancel people, to remove toxic people from your life, you know, and. And to not forgive and all those kinds of things. But I say to you, love your enemies, pray for those who persecute you, and to forgive as you have been forgiven. And so I resisted it. But the more I saw just how I was stuck in a fence and how other people were stuck in offense, like, I just felt more and more called to It.

[Megan Ashley]

To do it. Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Forgiveness is such a hard thing. Number one.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And it's a thing that we can all say that we've experienced. Like, it's the hardest thing to do.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

It's almost impossible. It is impossible without the Holy Spirit, I believe. I'm like, there's no way you can forgive. But it's also the thing that we can all say that we've experienced. Right. Why do you feel like even in Christ, forgiveness is hard? Like, if we know that the gospel is that God sent his son to die on the cross to forgive us of our sins. Right. The mission, forgiveness. That's like, if we know that as Christians, why is it still hard?

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

For us to forgive?

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. When someone sins against us, it's painful, you know, it's disorienting. And. And there are sometimes where people, like, they sin and it just hurts our feelings. But then there are some. Some things where it, like, literally changes, like, our whole life. And so I think part of the reason why it's difficult to forgive is because we're just still in pain.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Right.

[Yana Connor]

And so we can't think about forgiveness in that moment because all we can is the pain that we've just experienced. And so I know, for me, like, there's grief associated with that, there's lament associated with that, and sometimes we need to give that stuff space to. To. To breathe a little bit. But I think the other reason why it's hard for us to forgive is because we long for justice, and that's a good thing. Like, we are created in the image of a God who is just. And so when someone sins against us, we want justice, and that's an appropriate feeling to have. And we think if we forgive that person, that we're not holding them accountable, that we're ignoring it, that we're letting them get away with it. And so there's something in us that just sort of bucks up against that and that. I think that's the image of God, you know, in us. But I think that the reason why we sort of think that justice is the enemy to forgiveness is because we don't have a clear idea of what forgiveness is. So we think forgiveness is ignoring sin. We're actually. No, forgiveness requires that you honestly acknowledge what the person, you know, has done to you. And so it's not just sweeping it under the rug, or we think that forgiveness means that we just hit the reset button.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Yana Connor]

And then everything just kind of reverts back to normal. But no one person, one author Talks about how when, when trust is broken, an earthquake happens in the relationship. And when the literal earthquakes, like, it means that the two pieces of earth, like, they no longer relate to each other in the same way and they shouldn't relate to each other in the same way. So when someone sins against us, we shouldn't reset, hit the reset button. That's like incredibly unwise.

[Megan Ashley]

Right? Right.

[Yana Connor]

Because they have chosen, they have revealed to us that they are not trustworthy. Right. And so we should not continue to relate to them in a trustworthy manner. And so but I think if we think that that's it is, then, then we, then we were like, no, we don't want to do that. Or we think that it means to like completely reconcile with that person again. So in the book, like, my goal is to offer like a definition for forgiveness so that we have clarity on what it is, but also have clarity on what it's not. And so like, forgiveness is the merciful decision to release an offender of their debt and to not retaliate against them in anger. And that's not my definition. That's me like, like looking at every inferent instance of forgiveness in Scripture and being like, okay, this is kind of what I'm seeing happen here. And so the merciful decision part means that like, we don't forgive people because they deserve it. You know, that's, you know, mercy is like, I'm extending you something that you don't deserve, you know, or withholding something that you do deserve. And, and we forgive people because when we didn't deserve it, Jesus forgave us. But it's also a decision. Meaning it's not a feeling.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

You know, and so I think I always thought that I've forgiven a person when I stop having angry feelings towards them. And it's like, nope, that's not it. It's just you making a decision to forgive them. And I saw that you put on threads today, like, is it just a one time decision or is it a continual decision? And I would say it's both.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, right.

[Yana Connor]

Like you make the one time decision to forgive them and then continue to forgive them over and over again. To walk in step with your initial decision to forgive. And that's hard, Right, because that's like, that's the work of picking up your cross daily and dying to yourself. Right. And so we all make the one time decision to follow Jesus, but then we have to pick up our cross every single day and make the decision to die to ourselves. And the same is with forgiveness. It's like, I may I forgive you. And now I have to live out that decision to forgive you. Which means I might hold my tongue when I want to bring up old stuff, you know, or when I want to get my lick back later, you know, because I see an opportunity that I die to that impulse because I want to keep walking in forgiveness with you.

[Megan Ashley]

What do you say to people who. Because I, I feel like I've observed this a lot where people are like, yeah, I've, I've forgiven. And then time goes by and like you said, an opportunity comes to remember the offense or something triggered that offense again or whatever. And then it's like, oh, did I really forgive? Because now I'm having these feelings. Did I really forgive? And I think a lot of Christians struggle with that. Like, am. Did I really forgive? Like, because now my feelings are hurt again. Or maybe there's a new layer that has been revealed about the offense.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And cuz I, I think for me, like, I'm just personally thinking through myself. I told you earlier, I was like, I'm very resolute about forgiveness. Like, I know what I've been forgiven from. And one thing my mama didn't raise is a hypocrite. So it's like there's no way I could know what God has forgiven me from and not. And withhold forgiveness from it. Like that doesn't even compute in my brain. So that part I'm like, clear about. It's not an option. But there have been recent situations where because I think out of sight, out of mind is a thing. Right. So it's like, you're not present in my world. So it's easy to say I've forgiven you because I don't see you.

[Yana Connor]

Exactly.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't do life with you, I don't kick it with you, I don't skate with you. Like, you know what I'm saying? I don't, I don't do. I don't do nothing. So it's like, I don't. You're not in my space for. So there's nothing there to trigger anything.

[Yana Connor]

Oh yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And so how can we be clear about. Maybe I didn't. Like, is that forgiveness or is that just.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

It is circumstance.

[Yana Connor]

You know what I'm saying?

[Megan Ashley]

Like, that's just the circumstance.

[Yana Connor]

No, that's real. That's real. Yeah. I think it is convenient and easy to forgive people when they're not in front of you.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

When they live several states. And so then I only have to be on my best behavior with you, like on the holidays or, you know. Yeah, that, that one to two times of the year that we see. See each other. It is different when your offender is in your face, you know, and, and, and it's, and it's, and it's harder when they're in your face because now you, you really are recommitting to that decision to forgive them probably every time you see them. And so even now, like I'm walking with somebody and, you know, trying to live out for. And so in those moments where I see them and my flesh is prompted to ignore their presence, my flesh is prompted to go in the other direction. But the Spirit in me is prompting me to go and say hello. The Spirit in me is prompting me to serve and to love them in a small way, in a safe way. And the question is like, am I going to respond to the flesh or am I going to respond to the spirit?

[Megan Ashley]

Right?

[Yana Connor]

And so I think in those moments, just because we have those feelings doesn't mean that we didn't forgive that person.

[Megan Ashley]

Got it?

[Yana Connor]

What, what, what matters is what we do with those feelings. And so it's like, am I going to submit to what I feel in this moment or I'm going to submit to the spirit? Am I going to partner with the Spirit and what he is inviting me to do, which is to extend mercy and compassion towards, towards this person? And for me, I have to, because that is hard. I have to remember the compassion and the mercy that God extended to me. And I have to also remember that I live in a story that's much bigger than mine, right? And I have been casted to play a role in the story that God is telling. And one of the things that's really hard for me is in writing this book, one of the hardest things for me to write was that God is not only interested in your salvation, also interested in the salvation of your offender, because it is his desire that everyone would come to repentance. And so imagine if you were to extend compassion and mercy and grace on someone who's offended you. Like how that puts on display like the compassionate, merciful, gracious God to them. And that's what we're supposed to do, right? We're supposed to be glory to God. We're supposed to point people to Him. And I think when we forgive, we put the gospel.

[Megan Ashley]

Gospel.

[Yana Connor]

We put the gospel on display. And so it's like, I want to partner with the Spirit and show love to this person and not condemn them. Because if I, if I condemn them, then I'm partnering with the kingdom of darkness. I'm partnering with the accuser of the brethren. And, and that's just gonna heat, you know, more condemnation on that person's soul than, than necessary.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, yeah. I was reading because I think this is, this is interesting. I was listening to, I think it was Tim Keller. I always listen to Tim Keller.

[Yana Connor]

He's a good one to listen to, man.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm just like, Tim Keller just says some of the most profound things sometimes. And I'm just like, that had to come from God. But I was interested in Genesis and the story of Joseph of like at the end of the, the end of the book, he talks about or you know, Joseph's father dies, his brothers basically send a letter and it's basically, he says, you know, the Father commanded us to ask you for forgiveness. And Joseph basically is like, he responds and he's like, like, am I God? Like, he has that response of like, do I, do I hold the position of God? Like, I'm not God? Who am I to not forgive? Basically is what Joseph is saying. And I don't think that we realize the magnitude or the in depth implications when we choose to not forgive.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Is that you are choosing to be God. And, and I hear so much language and, and I'm start. I guess I'm start. I started to hear language where, even from Christians where forgiveness seemed optional.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, it seemed like we get to choose when we forgive, how we forgive, if we forgive. And so how does your book kind of come and speak to those people who feel like they have an option to forgive? They have an option at what pace they forgive and they have an option of how to forgive.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah. I think one of the things that was really clear to me in studying the passages where Jesus is speaking about forgiveness is that Jesus takes forgiveness really seriously. Anytime Jesus is having a conversation about forgiveness, he's also having a conversation about eternity, particularly as it relates to our eternal destination, if you will. And so for me it's very apparent that for Jesus it's not optional. And so because he's using very, very strong language about it, it's also in the Lord's Prayer. Prayer.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Yana Connor]

That we. And the Lord's Prayer is something that is expected for us to pray daily. Right. Because I mean one, culturally we know that just from their context, they had all of these select prayers and they would pray certain praise prayers daily. And so when the disciples say teach us how to pray, they're asking Jesus to give them a prayer, you know, as their rabbi. And so then this is the prayer that Jesus gives them. He says, pray, pray for a daily bread, right? But then even in that. And what we're supposed to pray daily is for. For forgiveness, but also to forgive others, as, you know, as God has forgiven, given us. And so for that, it's like, it's right up there with provision. It's right up there with praying for God's kingdom to come and his will to be done. It's right up there with praying and not be led into temptation and be delivered from evil. So it's really, really important. And I think that kind of emphasis helps us to know that it's not for Jesus. But also Jesus has an expectation that anyone who's received his forgiveness will extend his forgiveness. And that's. He makes that really clear. In Matthew 18, the parable of the unforgiving servant Peter is like, yo, how many times I gotta forget this joker? You know, it's seven times enough. And Jesus responds, nah, 70 times seven. And I imagine that they all were kind of looking like, excuse me, what? Like how.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Yana Connor]

Like, who's even counting that many times, right? And so, and then he goes on to tell this parable about a servant who had this debt that he could not pay and how he pleaded with his master to forgive him of that debt. And his master did. But then that same servant went out.

[Megan Ashley]

The audacity.

[Yana Connor]

The audacity, right? Went out, found his fellow servant. I love that Jesus puts this fellow in front of that cuz he's kind of hinting to the fact that y' all are the same. Same, right? Y' all are the same. You both live in a broken and fallen world. You both have a sin debt before your master. But instead of extending mercy and grace to his fellow servant who owed him a debt, he instead chokes him and has him put into prison. And then what's interesting is everybody in the town is like, upset about this. They like, I can't believe this man did this, right? So then they go to the master, and then the master says to the unforgiving servant, you wicked servant, how could you do this after I've forgiven you all of this debt? How could you not forgive your fellow servant? And then the whole moral of the story, if you will, is he says, so it will be with any one of you who does not forgive, who is not merciful, who does not forgive from the heart. And it's like, we have to do something with what Jesus says. Right.

[Megan Ashley]

We have to take it serious.

[Yana Connor]

We can't water it down. And so. So for me, I often say, like, because I think people can get like, oh, that's. You know, that's hard and that's harsh and all that kind of stuff. It's like, no, I think Jesus is telling us this parable to help us to evaluate our hearts, help us to evaluate whether or not we truly understand what it meant for Jesus.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes.

[Yana Connor]

To go on the cross and die for our sins. And I would say if you have a forgiveness problem, if forgiveness is hard for you, then you. You might just need to, like, start with spending time meditating on the gospel. You might need to start with just preaching the gospel to yourself and reminding yourself of the love and the mercy and the compassion of God that you've. You've received so that you can be inspired and empowered to extend that to other people. So if you're. If you're saying, like, I don't got it, it's like, okay, go. Go preach the gospel to yourself.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, go, go.

[Yana Connor]

Remember what Jesus did for you, and let that be the thing that helps you to move towards those who offend you.

[Megan Ashley]

That's so good, because I. It's. It's funny. I had my Patreon community. I gave them a challenge that when they pray, they would rehearse the gospel out loud to themselves. So for. I was like, I don't know how long we did it for. Like, I don't know if it was a month or a couple weeks or whatever, but I was like, like, when you pray, number one, posture yourself in a specific position. Like, I wanted them to actually physically posture themselves on their face before the Lord, because I think that that provokes a certain type of humility. And I. Cause I like, I love a lazy prayer. Okay. I love to be up in my bed and say, lord, you know every thought. You know what I'm thinking?

[Yana Connor]

You got it, Lord.

[Megan Ashley]

You got it. Like, hey, my man, it's on you. You know what I'm saying? I love a lazy prayer, but there was a season in my life where I was provoked to respond to him in the way that he deserves to be respond to. And it was this idea that he's holy, and I don't want to treat him casually. And so I'm like, he's a holy God. I can get out of my bed and I can get on my face because he's holy, and that's what he's deserving of. Right? Not saying that. If you don't do that. The Lord doesn't hear your prayers. Please don't get on thread. Talk about making sense. Stop. Don't do that. That's not what I said. But, but it was just something about like, let's posture ourselves in this way. And then as you pray, rehearse the gospel to yourself and the testimonies that were coming from that. Just by rehearsing the gospel to themselves, rehearse the gospel story to yourself from beginning to end. What did it mean for Christ to go on the cross? And I think if we had a commitment to put that in the forefront of our minds and to live with that awareness, not just think about it, it on Resurrection Sunday, but to really think about that every single day, I think it would provoke more forgiveness and more of a quicker pace at forgiving, not putting it off. Do you know what I'm saying? But, but responding to that conviction immediately. Yeah, because I think, I think, I think when you don't realize what you've been forgiven from, it's natural to. I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep this close to, you know what I'm saying? And it has showed me that I really don't believe that he's a just God.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it has, it has revealed. I, I refuse to forgive you because I actually don't trust that he's going to take care of that.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's real. So we talk about that in the book. There's a ch. A chapter that says living beyond anger and beyond abuse. And Psalm 37 has like, been sort of a, A, a helpful sign for me, particularly when anger is the thing that's preventing me to forgive. And so at the top of it, David says, fret not yourself over evil doers. And then he tells you why. He's like, because like the grass, they will soon wither away. And then he, he goes on to say, you trust in the Lord and you do good. You commit your way, way to him. He even says, delight, Delight in the Lord and he will give you the desires of, of your heart. And then he says that you can do all of these things because God is going to cause your righteousness and your justice to shine like the noonday sun. And so the, the, the key to Psalm 37 is that it's an impeccable, imprecatory psalm. And so it's a psalm about justice. It's a psalm about somebody who, somebody's offended them and they want justice.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, right.

[Yana Connor]

And so he's like, hey, don't fret your. And that fret is not like an anxious fret. It's more of an angry kind of fret where you can't put your anger to bed because you're so consumed with it. And you're like, I need justice and I need it now. And so this is someone who's on the verge of maybe retaliating against somebody who has harmed him and. Or them. And then. And then David's like, yo, don't fret yourself over that. Why? Because, like, they're gonna. They're gonna wither away like the grass. But what I love is he brings clarity that this isn't just nature, you know, taking his course. He says, like, no, God's gonna cause your righteousness and your justice to shine like the noonday sun. And I love that because it could have easily been written. God's gonna cause his righteousness and his justice to shine like the noonday sun. And that would have given us great assurance.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, right.

[Yana Connor]

But David puts it that way because God's not just trying to vindicate his name like he's trying to vindicate your name, right? And so he's gonna cause your righteousness and your justice to shine like the noonday sun. And it's in light of that, trust in the Lord and do good, and we can commit our ways to him and that we can delight in him knowing that he will give us the desires of our heart. Now, we have to read that in context because the desire of the. The person that David is talking to, that person's desire is justice. So this is we not talking about a car or family or a spouse. He's saying, if you delight yourself in the Lord, he will give you the justice that you. You desire. And so. So he's like, hey, stop fretting over your offender. And you trust in the Lord and do that. You forgive, you love, you show mercy, you show kindness to them and trust that God is on the case. He's gonna cause your righteousness and your justice to shine like the noonday sun.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good. I wanna talk about something you talked about in the book. Where I'm interested in your thoughts. In it is that you talk about. You talk about being shalom avoidant and shalom demanding.

[Yana Connor]

Oh, my girl was in the book.

[Megan Ashley]

So I'm interested. I'm interested in those two things because I've got.

[Yana Connor]

I was looking at.

[Megan Ashley]

I was like, hmm. I feel like I've found myself in both.

[Yana Connor]

Oh, yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Categories, being like, I. I don't even care. I'm good. Like, I do just, you know, ghost out. I'm straight. I don't want to deal with it. And then being like, no, Like, I used to be like that a lot. Shalom demanding. Like, let's resolve it now, now, now. And so I'm interested in, yeah, just like how you kind of work through those two things. Cause I think I've never heard that being framed in that way. So that was just interesting.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. Yeah. So shalom is. Is the biblical idea of wholeness and thriving. When someone sins against us, they disrupt our sense of shalom. They disrupt our wholeness, our well being, our sense of security, our sense of safety, those kinds of things. And in our attempt to get our shalom back, we can either become shalom avoidant or we can become shalom demanding. Another way to put that is that we can either go into a flight response response where we try to protect ourselves from the pain, or we can go into a fight response, which is shalom demanding. And we're like, yo, you got. You're gonna pay me what you owe me. And not only you gonna pay me what you owe me, but I'm gonna get my lick back, right? I'm gonna get my lick back because I want your shalom to be as disrupted as you, you know, disrupted mine. And so we retaliate against them. And so I think that, that shalom avoidance is when we are sort of in this. This desire to protect our peace. You know, good vibes only get ridding, you know, getting. Getting rid of toxic people in our life. And if we're honest, sometimes those people aren't toxic. They're just human. They're just weak. They just get on our nerves. They just annoy us. It's not necessarily that they're toxic, meaning they're not abusive, they're not manipulative, they don't actually lie. They just get on our nerves.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

And so we're like. And so. And so. But we're in that we're trying to protect our shalom versus trying to make shalom shalom. And that's what we're called to do. We're not called to protect our peace. That's not a command. We see in scripture. We. We are called to make peace. And biblical peace isn't the absence of conflict, it's the harmony of shalom. That's Dr. Tim's definition. And so how do we not allow sort of our defense mechanism to become that we just recoil from things that are hard and that are difficult, difficult and we kind of raise what my sis, Kobe Campbell, talks about our distress tolerance so that we can move towards those people to repair the ruptures that naturally occur in our relationship. And so I think in the book, I think I have you, I ask the question of like, you know, are you more shalom avoidant? Are you more shalom demanding? But then also another qualifier in that are there certain scenarios and relationships where you find yourself being more shalom avoidant or more shalom demanding? Because I think we all have the capacity to do either one, to do both. But how do we have enough sort of self awareness to know when we tend to do one more more over the other?

[Megan Ashley]

What would you say to the person who is in either category? So say I have more of a tendency to be more shalom avoidant. How do you speak and disciple that person? And then for the person who's more shalom demanding, how do you speak and disciple that person?

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, I think for the who's shalom demanded, I will probably walk them through Psalm 37, I will walk them through Romans where it says to be kind and tenderhearted. And then also where it says, like, vengeance is mine, said the Lord. So it's like, hey, like, that's not the justice part. Isn't. Isn't your business. That's the Lord's business. Your, your part is the forgiveness part. Can you trust God? Yeah. To take care of you. Can you trust God to cause your righteousness and, and your, your justice to shine. Shine like the noonday sun? Because I, I appreciate how you said that in some cases our. Well, in a lot of cases, when it comes to the command of Jesus, it's a matter of trust. And I think forgiveness is one of those too. Can you trust God to take care of it? Yeah. And then for the person who's more shalom avoidant. And that's, that's definitely me. I don't like conflict. But some of the things I often have to say to myself is, is 1, I rehearse Ephesians 1, 9 and 10 a lot where it says, this is the mystery of the Lord's will to unite all things in the heavens and the earth in Christ. And so then I'm asking the question, how can I live as a shalom maker in the world by pursuing my brother or sister who has sinned against me so that I can be eager to maintain the unity of the peace? And so that's me just immediately trying to grab hold of like the gospel and what God is doing in the world to Motivate me and to help me to take the steps that I need to make. And then also what helps me is remembering. And this is probably something that just resonates with me because of the whole nursing and caring for people, but recognizing that when someone sins against me, they also sin against God. That part.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

And so I'm not necessarily going to them to get. Get stuff off my chest.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

I'm going to them so that we can have a conversation of what's going on in their heart. Right. That caused them to move in this direction. Yes. We're going to talk about the PA and the anger that I feel about that. But really my goal in that is to see them not just reconcile back to me, but to be reconciled to God. And so I'm often saying to myself, like, Yana, you have to make God's goals your goals. And God's goals is for your brother or sister to be restored and to be whole in Christ. And so how can you partner with God to. To make shalom versus trying to avoid something that's difficult.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. I like the language of. Because I think. I don't know where we were. Me and Jackie were talking about this on a flight and I was saying how in relationships. I think we were talking about relationships and community. And I was saying how, like, we have to be more mindful that in relationships, in community, when it comes to people having that type of curiosity, to say, who am I going to partner with in this opportunity? Because every opportunity is an opportunity to partner with either Satan or the Lord.

[Yana Connor]

Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

And so it's like, what is this opportunity bringing me? And who am I going to decide to partner with? And I think that we have to learn how to slow down. I was talking about this in my last. With my last guest is that Tim Keller talks about being a thinking Christian. Like, you got to. You. You gotta. You have to use your brain and think. And so it's like taking a moment to pause and say, okay, I'm aware of how I feel.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm even aware of what I'm tempted to do. I'm aware of what. What. Yeah. What I'm tempted to. To do in light of these feelings. Who am I going to partner with?

[Yana Connor]

Yep. Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

Am I going to partner with Satan and be an agent of chaos and.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Disunity and discord? Or am I going to partner with the Lord and be an agent of shalom?

[Yana Connor]

That's so good.

[Megan Ashley]

Reconciliation, love. Right. Mercy. Like, who am I going to partner with? And then also what I've also started to ask myself is, is that what would bring God glory in this? What would make his name great in this situation? And I don't think that has to be limited to big things. I think that if we just kept that as a. I'm going to practice thinking this way. Who am I going to partner with? What would give God the most glory? Is it this? Or is it this? You know what I mean? And I think if we would practice that and slow down and not just react to what we feel.

[Yana Connor]

Feel.

[Megan Ashley]

I think that they would give us an opportunity to at least allow the spirit to. To prompt us to do what is pleasing to the Lord. Yeah, because my feelings be fast.

[Yana Connor]

Same, same.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I'm saying? And I got a mouth, huh?

[Yana Connor]

Same, same, same, same. Yeah, that's so good. Because I've been wrestling with that whole, like, when Paul says, like, be slow to anger.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

And I'm like. Or when it says that God is slow to anger, anger, and I'm like, yo, how, how, how, how? And so I've literally been just trying to slow down my anger so that I don't respond in a reactive way to people. And so sometimes if I'm offended by something, I'll be like, let's just give it a day. Let's just give it a day. If you're still offended by it tomorrow, then. Then sure, maybe have a conversation or just even slowing down by evaluating my own heart and asking the question, like, okay, why did that up? Yeah. Am I maybe overreacting? Is there anything else going on in my world that could cause me to maybe be feeling this on a deeper level than I should? And if so, like, let me just, Let me just back out of that a little bit. And so I'm learning how to slow that down. But I loved what you said about, like, the question is, are we going to partner with the kingdom of. Of heaven? Are we going to partner with the kingdom of darkness? And. And I've been in Ephesians 6 where he says, we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against the princip principalities and dominions and all that. And I think it's really interesting that Paul ends a letter that's total focus is on unity with a passage about spiritual warfare. And I think what he's getting at is like, when he says flesh and blood, he's like, you're not wrestling against your brother and sister. Like, you're wrestling against the kingdom of darkness. Right. And so it's just been like, behind every relational conflict is A spiritual battle.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

And I, for me, I have to be aware of that, because if I'm not aware of that, I might make shortsighted decisions. Right. I might just give in to whatever it is that I'm feeling and say whatever I want to say, not worried about the consequences of it. But when I know that. No, no, no, there is. There are rulers and dominions and principalities behind this relational conflict. Now, that doesn't excuse what they have did. Correct. Right. But how I respond to it, like you said, like, am I. Am I gonna, like, partner with God in the spirit or I'm gonna partner with the evil one? Am I going to be members of righteousness or members of. Of unrighteousness? But I don't think that we are zooming out enough, like, when we're in conflict with someone to see all of the stuff that's going on.

[Megan Ashley]

The bigger picture. Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

Like in. In the spirit world. But that's why I think Paul says it that way. Hey, you're not wrestling against flesh. Yeah. Like, y' all can handle that, but you're actually wrestling against the evil one. And remember, if God's goal is unity, then. Then what you think this. This joke on for sure.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, he on something else.

[Yana Connor]

He on something completely entirely different. Yeah. And I have to be aware of that when. When I'm in conflict with people.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. I think about too, the way where Jesus says, like, they will know that you're my disciples based off of how you love one another. Like, they're gonna know how you treat one that you have between each other. How you. For, like. And I think that's something that we got to be aware of. Because when I look at Christians right now. Hello.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Not everybody. I'm not saying there ain't unity anywhere. There is unity some places. But when I just look at, like, if I was not a Christian, and I was just looking at Christian tik Tok, and I was looking at Christian threads, and I was looking at Christian Instagram. I'm not on Facebook. I feel that's where the old people be at. Yet I ain't on Facebook. But if you on Facebook, I don't know what they doing over there. I'm not on there. But when I look at all the other mediums, I'm just like, yeah, I don't know.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, it's.

[Megan Ashley]

I mean, I don't know.

[Yana Connor]

It's like, why would you want to be a part of that club? Right. If it, you know, like, why would.

[Megan Ashley]

You think y', all, like, each Other.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, you couldn't.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, I, I, I don't, I don't know. I'm like, is this something. This is why your book is needed. Because I'm just like, we're not getting it. We're looking to. I feel like we're living in a time where people are looking to be offended. It's like, at this point, I want to be offended. I get on the app and I'm like, offend me so I can literally. Because I feel like people don't know how to have emotional intelligence. And so you look for opportunities to actually release what you don't want to release. The Lord.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Because you don't have the humility to release it to Him. You find opportunities to be offended, and then you release it out on them. It's like you. All I said was, I don't like chicken, and y' all are mad. Like, you're mad.

[Yana Connor]

You're mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I've seen some really complicated, crazy things. It's like, hey, I actually saw that real. That you're referring to, and that person.

[Megan Ashley]

Didn'T, didn't say that.

[Yana Connor]

Didn't say that at all. So, yeah, it's really, really interesting. Interesting. But I do think, think, yeah, we do live in a culture that it feels like people are looking to be offended. And I'm really curious to know, like, what, what that is about. It's kind of like, I don't watch scary movies because I don't like to be scared, you know? And so, like, if you're someone who's looking to be offended, I wonder if you're, you're looking for a place to, to let go of your anger. Yeah. Because you're, you, you're not doing that, like, at home with the right people. You're actually mad at somebody else.

[Megan Ashley]

Yep.

[Yana Connor]

But, but because you feel like you can't actually be really mad at that person the way that you want to, then you take all of that anger on someone else. On someone else. And so there's, there's definitely got to be a psychosis to that. And somebody needs to study that, because that's just really interesting.

[Megan Ashley]

It is.

[Yana Connor]

Like, why, why do you want to be offended? Why are you seeking that out? Why are you so reactive? Why are you so sensitive? Sensitive. And, yeah, like, that's, yeah, that's problematic.

[Megan Ashley]

And I, and I don't. And I, I try to be realistic because I know that we are actually living in, like, the, the last Days like I think we, you know, they said the last days when I was a baby. So maybe now we in the last hour, you know what I'm saying? We getting down to the last minute. I don't know that's what it feels like. But I do understand that love will wax cold. Like it's going, there's going to be lovelessness. So I don't think offense going to cease. Yeah, I think it's going to increase. But I think for the Christians we have to be aware of like again, not to plug John Bevere's book up again. But it's, it's a bait. It's offense is a bait that Satan uses because like you said, if the Lord is for unity, then what is he on? Yeah, he's for disunity. And so I think that that's something that we have to be vision vigilant in when it comes to that. And what I was also interested in for you and I, I'm wondering because I've similar to my story, you started off the book talking about your dad and so do you believe that that's where a seed for you might have started with your relate like is because I know that was the first opportunity for forgiveness.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

That you talked about.

[Yana Connor]

So.

[Megan Ashley]

So talk us through.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Because there's so many people that have that same context. Maybe not father specific, but mom or you know, someone really close to them.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah. So my dad, he was an alcoholic and I didn't really understand that when I was a kid, but there would be seasons where he would be sober, then there'd be seasons where he would relapse. And when he was sober he was a really present, good, fun dad. But then when he was not sober he was inconsistent. He was often, you know, absent. And as a kid that, that does a lot of wear and tear on your heart to just have this person just bouncing in and out of of your life. And because you know, I had a lot of friends whose dad wasn't in their life, I never really allowed myself to fully grieve his absence. I never really allowed myself to fully grieve the pain of like him not being at birthday parties and those kinds of things. And so I remember there was just like kind of this turning point. Specifically I saw this statistic where it says 78% of children that are being born into black families are being born in a single parent homes. And for the first time I just like wept like I wept for like our community. And then like I, I wept for myself and it was just in this very vulnerable moment with the Lord, where I sense the Lord say, just because something is normal doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt. And so I. I remember I was, like, sitting on the floor next to my bed, and I just. I just cried. And then I came into this awareness that I had just been kind of carrying around this backpack with me that was. Was, like, fear of trusting other people, fear of rejection, all this stuff that I had kind of inherited from his absence and from sort of his in and out in my life, and that I had just been taking this backpack into almost every relationship that. That I had. So it wasn't just that my dad wasn't there. That wasn't the only thing I had to forgive him of, but also forgiving him of, like, the impact that his absence was having on my life. And so I remember, remember there was a woman who was discipling me, and we. We had a tough go at it, you know, And I remember she's like, yanni, you don't trust anybody. And I'm like, yeah, why would I trust you? Like, you know, and. And just really having to wrestle with my. My lack of ability to trust people. But then it was this community coming around me and just kind of like, calling me on my stuff, you know, hey, you shut down in meetings. You. You. You know, like, you can't do that. You know, it calling me to, like, mature. And so it was hard. It was hard. So I had to go to counseling so I could heal and, like, figure some things out about myself. And while I was doing that, my dad called me. And so it was on a Valentine's Day. Why do I remember that? Because I went to go get pancakes that morning. I love pancakes. Let's go get pancakes. That morning, I'm sitting in a booth, and I look up and there are all these tables filled with dads and their kids, and I just begin to cry. Like, I just weep. And I'm like, check, please get me out of here immediately. So I leave, and my dad calls. Like, he just picks like. And I'm like, excuse me. He was like, hey, I was just calling. Wish you happy Valentine's Day. Now. The cynic in me was like, bro, you didn't miss Thanksgiving, Christmas, the New Year. You calling on thanksg. This is our own Valentine's Day. This is weird, bro. Um, but he. I remember, like, there was a vulnerability in his voice that I hadn't heard in a while. There was a soberness in his voice that I hadn't heard in a while. And even though he didn't apologize, I could tell that something was changing for. For him. And. And so then we were, like, trying to figure out how to be in relationship with each other. And I'm trying to forgive him, but, like, really struggling. Cause it's just really hard. Cause it's not like he had changed completely. He was in this process of changing. And so. And we're trying to figure things out. And. And during that time, he said some really hurtful things. You know, he would still make plans and not show up for them sometimes. And. And so that was really, really hard. But then I remember the Lord telling me, like, hey, your dad is just a human, you know, and he also is a human who is not in relationship with me. And you have this standard that he's never going to meet. Like, he's just never going to meet it. And so how do you relinquish that. That standard and, like, love the dad that you have and just accept the dad that you have and forgive the dad that you have? And so that was kind of a turning point for me where I was able to see my dad as a human, as someone who's broken and fallen and living in a broken and fallen world, who struggles with alcohol, who's in need of God's help and his mercy. That doesn't mean that I didn't maybe, you know, still want him to be.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

You know, a different kind of dad. But it was like, how can I move forward with the one, you know, that I have? And so we were talking about this earlier, just about how, like, he wasn't taking all the steps that I wanted him to take, you know, but he was taking some steps. And so how do I. How do I meet him in the steps, you know, that. That he's taking? And in that process, a friend of mine just really confronted and was like, hey, I think what you have with your dad is false reconciliation, not true reconciliation. She was like, because you've never had an honest conversation with him about how. How he hurt you. And. And so I was like, okay, sis, cool, cool, cool. Come for my neckhead, you know? And so she. She held me accountable, like, to go home, talk to my dad, have the conversation with him. And when I did, like, that was really the. Helped turn the corner in our relationship. And I even had to apologize to him because I was like, even though you're the first. Cause in this, like, I've added some offenses to this, and I need to apologize for that. And, yeah, we had a Reconciling conversation. And it was really, really beautiful. And I'm so glad that the Lord gave that to us because, like, two months later, my dad passed. Wow. He just. Yeah. Just unexpectedly.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Yana Connor]

Passed. And that was really hard. And on the one hand, I was like, God, why would you give me my dad back only to take him away? And then on the other hand, I was like, man, God, I'm so grateful that we had this conversation and that our relationship didn't end the way that it. That it was. And so it was a really, really tough season for. For me because I was like, oh, I thought we were going to be able to write a different kind of ending to our story and. But I thought we just had more time. Had more time. And for me, personally, I think that experience is kind of like, created an urgency in me to not hold on to things for. For too long, because you just don't know how long you will have people in your life. And I don't say that to, like, rush anybody, because in the book I talk about how, like, forgiveness is a process. Like, it's not something that you. You can always get to really quickly. I think it's something that you grow into your capacity to. To forgive sort of grows as you mature, you know, in Christ. So I just want to. I want to respect where people are. But I would say, like, don't. Don't just think that you'll have time, because that's just not really promised, like, to you. That's.

[Megan Ashley]

Man. I think, uh, yeah. I'm trying not to get emotional, but I'm sorry to hear about your dad, that I. I didn't know that. And I think that for so many people is. It's like what you said. I think we think that we do have time. I'll do it tomorrow or I'll do it next year, or I'll do it after the holidays or I'll do it. It. You know, and so I pray and it's.

[Yana Connor]

So.

[Megan Ashley]

It's interesting because I've had this on my heart for some time. Urgency in the way that we move in the things of the Lord in general. But even for you to say, like, we had. I was having this conversation with Jordan when we were in South Africa. I felt convicted about how I was moving, moving. And the Lord was just like, yeah, like the, The Satan. The Bible says that Satan is prowling around looking.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

For someone to devour. And I felt. I sensed that the Lord was showing me that, like, his pace is quick. He sees an opportunity he pounces on it quickly. Therefore, our pace has to be quick. And so if you see an opportunity to forgive. Forgive.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

If you see an opportunity to love.

[Yana Connor]

Love.

[Megan Ashley]

If you see an opportunity to comfort. Comfort. If you see an opportunity to help, Help.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, don't. Like. I think our pace does matter. Do you know what I mean? And I think I. And yes, take time to process with the Lord. I, I understand that, but even in that. Don't take.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, don't. You know what I'm saying I'll do on vacation. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, I do it when I'm done watching Netflix or something. I don't know. But just like, the pace. I think the pace matters. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, if you, If. If your friend wasn't obedient to tell you, like, no, I think you have maybe false reconciliation and for you to. You could have took that and sat on it.

[Yana Connor]

Could have. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

You know, but. But the pace in which you moved, I just think that we have to respond with urgency when the Lord is prompting us to do stuff because we don't know, you know, we don't know how much time that we have. So I pray that that, like, encourages everyone that's watching. Watching to. Yeah, just don't take advantage of your perception of time and just, like, move when the Lord tells you to move.

[Yana Connor]

For sure.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. This was, I guess, helpful for me. I'm like, is that conviction? I don't like it. Yeah, I don't like it. What part of the book do you feel like when you were writing the book in the process, and I know you were going through your own story stuff, battling different forgiveness stuff, what do you feel like was the hardest chapter for you to write?

[Yana Connor]

The hardest chapter for me to write? Oh, I think the hardest chapter for me to write was living beyond abuse. 1. Because it wasn't something that I have personally experienced, but it is something that I have walked. Walked with other people through, whether it's through discipleship or, you know, just ministry in. In a church context or even when I was doing college ministry. And for me, it was very important to handle that topic with care. Yeah. One, because I think when you ask someone who's been abused to forgive the person who abused them, I think it. It for them, it can feel like an act of treason.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

Against themselves.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

Because it's like, man, this person has completely disrupted my sense of shalom, you know, body, soul, like, all of that. And so how do I just forgive. Forgive them? And so I wanted to create Enough space in that chapter for people to be where they are, but then also to like, call them up at the same, same time. Particularly because I did have one friend who's experienced abuse to kind of say that, you know, there can be.

[Megan Ashley]

Has.

[Yana Connor]

There can kind of be this idea that if you are someone who's experienced abuse that you get like a, an exception clause. You know, that that's not something that you. You need to do now. Once again, forgiveness is a decision. It's not reconciling, it's not ignoring. It's not any of those things. And so definitely not, you know, encouraging like that you just reconcile with someone who has, has shown themselves to be. To be unsafe. Yeah. But I do think that we're still scripture to, to forgive. But I did. I walked through Psalm 37 in that chapter talking about how God will cause your righteousness and your justice to shine like the noonday sun. And as I wrote that, like, the Spirit just brought to mind, like, hey, for someone who's experienced abuse, usually their question is, where was God? Right? Where was God when this thing. When this thing happened to me? And so for them, this idea that God will cause your righteousness and your justice to shine like the noonday sun, that may not feel like good news, because why should I trust him to do that when he didn't protect me? Right. And so feeling like I had to deal like, kind of wrestle with. With that in that chapter, I also kind of like, address some of the things we say to people who've experienced abuse that are just really maybe not helpful. You know, and so we'll say things like, God will give you double for your trouble, you know, based off of Job. And it's like, I don't think Job would. Would say that to anybody.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

You know, just because he had 14 children after losing seven. Have those 14 children don't replace seven that he lost. And so, and so I don't think that's what we need to say. I think sometimes we rush to Romans 8:28 Too fast. It's still true. Like, God does work in all things for the good of those who. Who love him are called according to his purpose. But I, I think if that person had an opportunity to choose whether or not to have that thing happen to them at all, they would say, no, thank you.

[Megan Ashley]

Correct.

[Yana Connor]

Even if God would work.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Yana Connor]

Work mightily through it, I. I opt out.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Yana Connor]

And so I was like, I don't think that's something that we should say to them. Or we'll say, what What Joseph said in the end, where it's like, well, the, the evil one meant this for my bad, but God meant this for good. And I'm like, oh, oh, that's. I don't know, guys. I think we need to, like, put that away. Like, just don't say that. Because Joseph's story is, is in Joseph confession at the end of his life, that's really unique to him. And that's, that's his interpretation of what God is doing in his life. But that name may not be the interpretation that everybody should, should take on. And so we deal with the problem with evil in that, that chapter, but it's like the problem of evil exists not because there's a problem with God, but because there's a problem with humanity, you know, because sin exists. And, and, and we live in a broken and fallen world and we have free will.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Yana Connor]

And people use their free will in very harmful ways. And so that was really hard because it just felt like there were all these things that we had to, like, sort of deal with. And then you're contending with the word count of the chapter. And I just didn't want to leave people, People hanging in any way. I really wanted to try as as much as possible to put an airtight, if you will, sort of case for forgiveness for those who experience abuse. That's good.

[Megan Ashley]

What my last few questions I have is, one of them is, what do you say to those who have been betrayed, offended, hurt, abandoned, abuse, abused, couching offense, and all of that? Right. How, how do you encourage people to have hope again?

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Because I think that that's really hard when you've been betrayed, when you've been hurt, when you've been, you know. Yeah. Deeply offended. Yeah. Deeply sinned against is to not only have hope in people again, but having hope in God.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, how do you encourage people to have hope beyond offense?

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, when someone offends us, we have to be careful to not shift the blame from our offender to God. Right. And allow questions like, why did they do that? To turn into questions, why did God let this happen? Right. Or, or to even shift the blame from that person to ourselves. Right. They are the person who sinned against you, not God and not you. They sinned against you. Their sin is their sin, their responsibility. And for me, one of the things I've had to do just to live beyond the offenses of other people, to build relationships with other people, is I have to separate the past from the present. Right. And so I'm often having to tell myself, yana, this person is not your dad. This person is not your dad, or this person isn't that friend that betrayed you. Like, let them have their own story. Be careful to not allow them to or not make them pay for the day of what someone else did. Like, give them their own sort of opportunity to reveal to you who, who they are. But then I also have to acknowledge that it's scary. And so I recently did this with a friend. I was like, hey, this is actually, like, kind of scary for me. It was my friend Elizabeth Whitson. We were, we, we have started a podcast together, and it was two years in the making, like, of us having a conversation. And after we had the first conversation, I was like, yeah, girl, I don't know if I want to do this because, you know, this, you know, we cool and we kiki on the phone and it's a, it's a good time. But when we started doing stuff together, that creates more opportunity for conflict. And I was like, yeah, I'm, I don't want, I don't think I want to do that. And I don't think I want to do something so public with you. When I, I was like, we haven't even had a conflict yet, so I don't even know how you handle conflict.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Yana Connor]

And so I was like, I, I, I trust you, but I, I don't know if I trust you for sure.

[Megan Ashley]

For sure.

[Yana Connor]

So it's like. And so, But I had to, I was so grateful I said I shared that with her, and then she just kind of like, let me be where I was and was like, we don't have to do the podcast. It's totally fine. And giving me space to, like, heal. And then I was like, oh, I think I can, you know, and we can do, do this thing together. So for me, I have to acknowledge those things. But I do remember, even when my dad came back into my life, a mentor, I think it was Lorna Johnson said this to me, because I was like, I don't know if he's going to relapse again. I don't know if he's going to abandon me again. Like, I was like, I can't. I don't feel like I can trust him. And I remember, I think it was Lorna saying to me, yana, you may not be able to trust your, your dad, but you can trust God. Like, you can trust God and not, not in the sense that you can trust God to keep you safe from, from harm, like, or the harm of offense. Again, but you can trust God to heal you again. That when, when someone sins against you, you can trust that God will heal you again. And that's, that's really been the thing that helps me to, to move forward in new relationships, too, particularly when it comes maybe on, like, the cusp of, like, just losing a relationship. And that was the thing with Elizabeth. Like, I just lost a friendship of, I don't know, so many years. And then Elizabeth comes in and I'm like, yeah, girl, you can sit over there for sure, you know, for sure. But being like, no, if, if this, if, if I do get hurt, I can trust that God will heal me again. Because that's my track record with him.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good.

[Yana Connor]

Is that every time I've gotten hurt, he's healed me, he's taken care of me, he's provided community, and I. I can trust him with that.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, I think that's good. Is that you're. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say it in that way, because I think the perception is, is that we want to avoid being hurt. And the reality is, is that as long as humans are here, as long.

[Yana Connor]

As we're here, until Jesus come back.

[Megan Ashley]

Until he comes back, cracks them skies, we're going. We're going to have the opportunity to be offended, hurt, yeah, whatever. Like, that's just, that's just the cost of humanity. But I love what you said is, like, it's not so, so much that he's going to eliminate the hurt, but he's going to heal. Like, he is going to keep you. And I think that's good. What, like, keeping his track record in mind is that if I do get into another friend, because that was hard for me, it's like, I don't want to be friends with nobody.

[Yana Connor]

I'm good. Long as I got.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm straight. Okay? I got these kids. I had Jordan J. I had my mama. I'm fine. But the, the more, the more I thought back on just the totality of my life. I'm like, he's always kept me. You know what I'm saying? Things have been bad, but he's kept me. Things were hard, but he kept me. There was abuse here, but he still kept me. I almost took my life, but he kept me. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, he's been a keeper.

[Yana Connor]

He's a keeper.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I'm saying? And so I pray that people are encouraged that, like, if you have been hurt, whether it's a friend or A parent or church or whatever. Don't let that hinder you from entering into relationships. Because God, I think he is fiercely after us being in community and having relationships, you know what I mean? And I think that that is a plot and scheme of the enemy to disunify people and to isolate, to keep people from, you know, experiencing relationships. And so I think what you said is super helpful, is like, he may not, the Lord may not keep me from hurt, but he will keep me.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And he will heal me if hurt occurs.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

You know what I mean?

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. And there are trustworthy people in the world. Like, there really are. There are people in your life who are worthy of your trust, who have good character, who have sincere motives, sincere towards you, and who have a proven track record with you. Like, there are people in your life that are worthy of, of your trust. And I even, like, I'm walking through something that's really hard and it's a community of us. We're walking through something really hard. And one of them said, God knew that this was going to happen before it happened. And, and, and for whatever reason that's giving them peace. It wasn't really giving me peace. I said, that's.

[Megan Ashley]

He said, well, I'm glad that's worked for me, but that's not what for me. I'mma need something else. Okay.

[Yana Connor]

That's not working for me. And I remember in my time with the Lord, like last week, like that coming back to mine and the Lord being like, yeah, I did see this before, before you saw it coming. And I put people in your life to help you navigate it. Like, and so there are people, like, who just now have come into my life who are showing up in ways that like, don't make any kind of sense to me. Um, it's just other worldly, like love. It's like love from the Lord. The way that they've prayed for me, the way that they walked with me during this time. It's like, oh, the God who foreknew that this thing was coming put these people in my life beforehand so that I wouldn't sink right, so that my faith wouldn't slip, so that I wouldn't give up on, on ministry. And I'm. I mean, these people literally carried me.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good.

[Yana Connor]

Through this time. And so in this moment I'm learning that, yeah, I actually do need people for the times when someone does offend me so that I'm already in this community that reminds me that this, all people aren't like this. Right. But There are people in our lives who are worthy of our trust and can bring a lot of joy into our worlds.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good. What do you want people to walk away with? Obviously we want people to forgive people.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Right? Yeah, because that's what the Lord said, y'.

[Megan Ashley]

All. It ain't no option. We covered that. Yeah, but like, what. What it's like, like, what is your heart like? I want people to read this, and this is what I want them to walk away with.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah. I think I want people. People. This has been my prayer. Is that a movement of shalom makers would. Would. Would rise like that. The Lord would create a movement of shalom makers. And that's not just forgiveness. Right.

[Megan Ashley]

That's.

[Yana Connor]

That's a movement of people who are compassionate, who are merciful, who are kind, who. Who embody the character of Christ, who are slow to anger. Right. Which means that they may also be slow to. To offense, you know, who are curious and don't jump to assumptions, who. Just the very posture of their lives is one to make shalom. And so. So that's my heart. Because I think if that's true, then, you know, these little offenses, you know, get. Get tied up a little bit quicker. People become less offended. We're less concerned about ourselves and how people are treating us and those kinds of things. Not that we don't need to be concerned about those things, but we're. We'. Not. That's not our primary aim. Even when we are going to someone to have a hard conversation. It's more so, like, man, I'm really concerned about you because the way you talked to me yesterday was crazy. Like, absolutely crazy. It was out of character for you. So I'm just trying to figure out, like, what. What's going on, Sis, Are you okay? Like, how we. How we. You know, we could talk about me and you later, but, like, how are you? Right. For sure. And I. I want people to be free enough.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Yana Connor]

You know, to be.

[Megan Ashley]

And do it with the sincere heart, not passive aggressively.

[Yana Connor]

Don't do that. That's not nice.

[Megan Ashley]

You know, that's not nice. It's like, if you gonna do it passive aggressively, just don't do it.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Just right.

[Yana Connor]

Take 24 hours.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. Just do what Yana said, sleep on it. Okay. And then come back. But I think. I think that. I think that that curiosity.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you know what I mean? I think that that's an agent of being a shalom maker too. Is there. That's an ingredient of that is just being Curious and being like, hey, when you said that I don't want to assume that you meant it this way. Did you mean like being curious before Accusatory, I think will also help us in that. But I think, yeah, I think you need to do a whole Shalom movement. I don't know if it's hashtag Shalom Agent. I don't know. We need T shirts. I'm happy to wear it. I'm happy to be on the committee.

[Yana Connor]

The committee.

[Megan Ashley]

The Shalom committee.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah, the Shalom committee. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't know if we got shirts or badges.

[Yana Connor]

We have something in the, the works. Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Please let me know so I can.

[Yana Connor]

But I'm, I'm. I'm not true to this. I'm new to this and so I'm still trying to figure out how to, how to do those kinds of things.

[Megan Ashley]

But don't you worry. One thing I'm good at is promoting other people. Now myself, not so much, but one thing I do know how to do.

[Yana Connor]

You know how to promote as I.

[Megan Ashley]

Know how to promote, dude. So you send me the information, the shirts that I got you, I'll make. We have a whole Shalom movement.

[Yana Connor]

I love it.

[Megan Ashley]

And we will get. We will have peace and mercy spreading around. Hopefully we get it on threads and tik tok. Cuz that's where the shalom needs to be.

[Yana Connor]

That's where it needs to be.

[Megan Ashley]

It needs to be on these social medias.

[Yana Connor]

Amen.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay. Thank you for being here. Thanks for come back. I know there's so much more in the book because I didn't get to read the whole thing. There's so much more that I want to dig into and, and I know, I like. It's. It's one of those books where I'm like, yeah, my Patreon community, like we need to walk through this book. We need to. Because it's such an important, such an important topic that I think. Yeah, it's like if we don't get. If we don't learn how to live beyond the fence, we're going to be. We're going to destroy each other.

[Yana Connor]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So thank you. Thank you for being here. I love you. I'm so excited for you and your book and I'm praying for you because I already know the enemy hates you. I'm so sorry. Well, I mean, I'm not sorry. I know. I get it. I get it, girl. I get it. You guys make sure you check out Yana's new book, Living beyond the Fence. Like I said, it's going to be on my Amazon storefront. Y' all already know. Y' all know I'll buy a bunch and hand them out to the village community. I'll make sure to hook y' all up with some books. But yeah, this is going to. This book is radically going to change and transform not only your life, but your relationship. So make sure you get it. Buy it for you, buy it for a friend, whoever you be beefing with. You know what I'm saying? It's like, you know what? Let's walk through this thing together. Let's read it together. We can start a whole book club, just you and your offender. That would actually be crazy.

[Yana Connor]

That would be absolutely crazy. But I love it. Let's do it.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't know. It could happen. Make sure y' all check y' all out. Make sure you follow her on all social media platforms and support the Shalom movement. We love you guys. We'll see you next week.

[Yana Connor]

Peace.

[Megan Ashley]

What's up you guys? I hope you enjoy enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you felt encouraged in some way. Be sure to like and follow Into Tality Podcast everywhere you listen to your favorite shows. Follow Into Tality on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and be sure to turn on your post notifications so that you can be the first to listen whenever there's a new episode.

[Yana Connor]

Life doesn't pause when you're sick. Vaccines against respiratory illnesses can help protect you and give you more playtime with your best friend. Depending on age and health status, vaccinations for flu, COVID 19, RSV or pneumococcal infection may be recommended. Vaccines can help keep you from having a rough time. Learn [e-mail] Vaccines Protect brought to you by the American Lung association and cbeep Fighting Infectious Respiratory Disease.