EP 97: The Bumpy Road to Better: ft. Tim Timberlake

Summary

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In Totality with Megan Ashley

Episode 97: The Bumpy Road to Better (ft. Tim Timberlake)

Release Date: November 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on the honest and challenging realities of walking out faith, as Megan Ashley welcomes pastor, author, and fellow podcaster Tim Timberlake to discuss his new book, "The Bumpy Road to Better." Together, they explore themes of vulnerability, sanctification, spiritual fatigue, and navigating painful seasons in life as believers. Through transparent stories and practical wisdom, the conversation offers encouragement, raw insights, and a reminder that God’s love and presence anchor us through every bumpy road.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tim Timberlake’s Story and Calling

• Background and Identity
  • Tim describes himself first as “a son”—to his parents, to his heavenly Father, to his wife Jen, and his son Max.
  • Losing his father (a pastor) at a young age led to anger at God and years of running away from faith.
  • A transformative dream—mirroring his father's own call—led Tim to turn his life around and ultimately enter ministry.

    “The longer you run from what I’ve called you to do, everyone you could have influenced, their blood would be held to your account.” (Tim, 08:01)

2. The Heart Behind "The Bumpy Road to Better"

• Honesty about Hardship in the Christian Journey
  • Megan and Tim reflect on how Christian narratives often gloss over difficulty, whereas the biblical walk is consistently narrow, hard, and full of challenges.

    “A lot of times in Christian space...I always want to be mindful of giving an accurate depiction on what this walk [is]. The Bible tells us that the road is narrow...Some translations say, ‘hard is the way.’” (Megan, 10:51)

  • Tim emphasizes that the last three years of his leadership have been "pure hell," and that his new book was written amidst intense pain—not after the storm, but in the thick of it.

    “If I’m gonna laugh about it later, I’m gonna laugh about it now.” (Tim, 12:21)

3. Navigating Pain, Doubt, and "Faith Fatigue"

• Sanctification and Learning in the Wilderness
  • Tim describes the necessity of going through—not just getting past—painful seasons because they draw us closer to God, giving us revelation of who He is rather than just information.

    “We may know Jesus as a redeemer, but we won’t know that personally until He’s redeemed something in our life... In those moments we get revelation about who Jesus actually is in that season of pain.” (Tim, 15:23)

• Holding the Tension: Belief & Unbelief
  • Both Megan and Tim candidly discuss the struggle of trusting God for redemption while waiting for change, referencing "faith fatigue" and the biblical story of the father who says, "I believe—help my unbelief" (Mark 9).

    “I know you’re able to do it for anybody...it’s the tension of, ‘Will you do it for me?’” (Megan, 20:48)
    “As long as I continue to surrender that doubt daily to Jesus, my doubt doesn’t become an idol in my life.” (Tim, 19:32)

4. Pride, Insecurity & Identity in Christ

• Redefining Pride
  • Insecurity and imposter syndrome, Tim explains, are also forms of pride—both seeing oneself lower or higher than God says—rather than simply exaggerated ego.

    “Pride is viewing yourself any kind of way differently than how God views you...We often think pride is ego, but pride is also thinking more lowly of yourself than what you should.” (Tim, 28:00)

• Staying Anchored in God’s Voice
  • Tim details the importance of continual immersion in God’s word as the only way to resist internal and external voices that contradict God’s truth about us.

    “If faith comes by hearing...my doubts are increased by not hearing the Word of God.” (Tim, 30:34)

5. Discernment in the Age of Social Media & Digital Prophets

• Navigating Content Overload and Prophetic Zeal
  • Both reflect on the explosion of self-proclaimed prophets, the pressure for leaders to overshare, and the dangers of “hyper-criticism” or spiritual showmanship online.

    “Followers does not equate to fruit. Followers does not equate to friendship. There’s a difference between having fans and having family.” (Tim, 49:14)

  • Tim urges discernment—checking the fruit and accuracy of voices we follow, and not seeking order, discipline, and boundaries in “deeper,” more sensational teachings.

    “Sometimes the gifts of God arrive differently than we expect. Sometimes it arrives through discipline, sometimes through structure, sometimes boundaries, but we don’t want those.” (Tim, 58:01)

6. Vulnerability, Scars, and Responsible Storytelling

• Sharing from Scars, Not Wounds
  • Tim explains that sharing stories—including his divorce—should wait until wounds have become scars, so as to offer healing rather than just information (or “tea”).

    “I just sat with God and allowed time to bring out of me the things He healed in me, so that I could help other people go on the journey.” (Tim, 39:46)

7. Divorce, Healing & Value After Loss

• Shepherding Divorcees and Navigating Theological Tension
  • The conversation delves into the rarely-discussed pain of divorce, especially for women, and the shame or invisibility that lingers in church culture.
  • Tim provides pastoral wisdom: the heart of God hates divorce because of what it does to His children, not out of legalism.

    “Divorce is helping people to heal from someone that they’re mourning that’s still alive. It’s the only time that we mourn someone that’s still here... But I am not what happened to me. I am so much more than what has happened to me.” (Tim, 65:05; 67:48)

  • He emphasizes the need for theological nuance, therapy, and community, versus rigid or shallow interpretations.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Honest Faith:

  “If I’m gonna laugh about it later, I’m gonna laugh about it now. I want to journey through this season of pain...with my pen and my Word and not lean into my emotions...I need the mind of Christ.” (Tim, 12:21)

• On Daily Doubt and Divine Identity:

  “Sometimes I doubt: ‘Is God good to me?’ ...I am both hopeful and I am doubtful. But as long as I continue to surrender that doubt daily to Jesus, my doubt doesn’t become an idol.” (Tim, 17:17‒19:32)

• On Pride & Self-Worth:

  “Pride is viewing yourself any kind of way differently than how God views you...Who am I to argue with how God sees me?” (Tim, 28:00-29:33)

• On Wisdom & Discipleship in The Digital Age:

  “Followers does not equate to fruit. There’s a difference between having fans and having family. I want family.” (Tim, 49:14)

• Advice to Aspiring Prophets:

  “Before God calls you to be a prophet to the nations, He calls you to be a prophet to your neighbor...there’s a process that takes place, there’s maturity in Christ, there’s pruning before you step into the assignment of the call.” (Tim, 52:37-53:47)

• On Healing from Divorce:

  “Helping people navigate divorce is helping people heal from someone they’re mourning who’s still alive.” (Tim, 65:05)
  “Your value is not shaken by what’s happened to you. It is anchored in the hope of Jesus Christ.” (Tim, 67:46)

• On God Seeing Us:

  “The most rewarding part of writing [the book] is getting that reminder from God: I see you. I haven’t forgotten you. I’m with you.” (Tim, 59:30)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:52 ‒ Tim opens with a raw summary of his painful leadership season and shares a prophetic dream calling him to ministry.
• 05:29-09:11 ‒ Tim recounts his journey from anger at God after his father’s death to answering his own call to ministry.
• 11:48-13:37 ‒ Discussion of why Tim’s new book is his most transparent, written during deep pain.
• 17:17-19:41 ‒ Honest exploration of daily doubt, faith fatigue, and surrendering doubt so it doesn't become idolatry.
• 28:00-29:33 ‒ Megan and Tim redefine pride as both arrogance and self-loathing.
• 34:43-37:05 ‒ The power of immersing in God’s word to silence the enemy, and how to discern God’s voice vs. accusation.
• 39:46-43:15 ‒ Deciding when and how to publicly share painful personal stories and responsibly process wounds.
• 49:14-50:12 ‒ Tim's insights on the difference between fans and family—what true leadership and accountability look like.
• 52:37-55:34 ‒ Advice on the process of maturing into ministry gifting before stepping into public prophetic ministry.
• 65:05-67:51 ‒ Pastoring people through divorce, reframing value and identity, and moving forward with hope.
• 73:31-74:33 ‒ Tim’s journal prompt: assess the speed of your obedience; are you moving at God’s pace or your own?

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Practical Takeaways

• Go Through, Not Around, Your Pain: Don’t rush past hardship—allow it to draw you closer to Christ and discover new facets of His character.
• Daily Surrender and Self-Reflection: Hold the tension between faith and doubt by surrendering both to God and choosing honesty.
• Immerse in God’s Word: Build spiritual resilience and discernment through continual Scripture intake.
• Practice Vulnerability Responsibly: Share testimonies from a place of healing, not fresh hurt; always lead others to Christ, not just personal catharsis.
• Discern Your Influences: Inventory voices you follow; seek fruit, not just charisma or affirmation of your feelings.
• Affirm Identity Over Shame: Remember your worth is in being a child of God, not in your past or your mistakes.

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Journal Prompt (Tim’s Suggestion, 73:31)

“Understand, and for some of us remember, that God moves your future towards you at the speed of your obedience. Some of us are going too fast, and we need to slow down and move at God’s speed... God doesn’t live up to your expectations; He always lives up to His Word. Align your expectations with God’s Word and watch Him move at His pace.” (Tim, 73:31)

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a vulnerable roadmap for anyone slogging through life's rough patches, reminding listeners that God redeems even the bumpiest roads. With practical wisdom, scriptural grounding, and honest storytelling, Tim and Megan invite listeners to move with grace, walk in honesty, and root themselves in God's presence and identity—no matter how bumpy the road.

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For the full experience and more resources, grab "The Bumpy Road to Better" by Tim Timberlake and connect with the In Totality community!

Transcript

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[Tim Timberlake]

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[Megan Ashley]

What's up fam? Listen, if you've been blessed by In Totality the podcast, then I want to personally invite you to go deeper by.

Joining our Patreon community called the Village.

Every Tuesday morning, the Village members get early access to the full episode of the podcast two days before it drops publicly on YouTube. So while everyone else is waiting, you're already soaking it in. But that's just the beginning. As a Village member, you get exclusive.

Access to the In Totality docu series.

It's a behind the scenes look at how I walk on my faith in real life. No filters, no fluff, just real moments of me trusting the Lord, processing life and growing in truth. We also do live book club zoom calls where we read and grow together in the Word.

I'm not just talking at you worth.

Walking through it together, asking questions, we wrestling through scriptures, learning to follow Christ more fully. You know, like that Romans 12. You'll also get bonus content, extra conversations with podcast guests that go even deeper, plus moments that didn't make it to the episode but were just too good not to share. And one more thing. When you join the Village, you get first access to merch before it drops public. So if you love the message and you want to rep the movement, you you'll get first dibs every time. But more than the content, the Village is about community. It's a safe place for believers to connect and grow and be reminded that you're not doing this walk alone. You're a part of something real. We're building something special and we would.

Love for you to be a Part.

So hit pause. Go to www.patreon.com meganashley and join today.

And I'll meet you there.

[Tim Timberlake]

Oftentimes, we try to get through certain things that God wants us to go through. The last three years of leadership has been pure hell. Wow. And my desire was to make God as angry with me as I as I was with him. Freaked out of my mind. I called my mom, kind of explained to her what's going on. She started laughing. And she explained to me that was the exact dream that my father had when God called him in the ministry.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

That was the moment that I turned my life around. Foreign.

[Megan Ashley]

What's up, you guys?

Welcome back to another episode of In Totality. I'm your host, Megan Ashley, and I'm so excited because I have another special guest to introduce you guys to. Listen, y' all know I'll be having just anybody and everybody. So the people that I bring on are super special to me and I know that they're going to bless you. And so I want to welcome my brother for the first time on In Totality. Please welcome Tim Timberlake.

[Tim Timberlake]

Thank you, sis.

[Megan Ashley]

Welcome. How are you?

[Tim Timberlake]

I'm doing phenomenal.

[Megan Ashley]

Your first visit on In Totality won't be your last.

[Tim Timberlake]

Thank you. Well, we'll see how it goes.

[Megan Ashley]

No, it won't be your last. I'm super excited that you're here. How was your journey to Atlanta?

[Tim Timberlake]

It was good. I'm honored to be on the pod and I'm excited about our convers.

[Megan Ashley]

Yay. Yay. So you are here because your fourth book, right, Is out. Or is it out now or is it about to be out?

[Tim Timberlake]

It is out. It's out now in the world.

[Megan Ashley]

And you guys know I listen, I've already put a stamp that when it comes to books, I am the Christian Oprah. I'm going to make sure you get a book. Okay. I should have, like, a book club, something. Okay. I'm going to make sure you have all the resources and books that you need to get through this.

[Tim Timberlake]

This.

[Megan Ashley]

This crazy journey as a Christian. But speaking of journey, you wrote a new book called the Bumpy Road to Better. Yes, And I'm so excited to talk about that. But before we get into all the things, because I told you I was able to get through three chapters, I wasn't able to get through all of it. I was able to get through three chapters, and I love that there you outline the chapters and they're very detailed. So it's like I knew exactly what I was kind of getting myself into.

And so I went to the ones.

That I was challenged in the most. Those are the ones I dove into first. But tell us our. Tell our In Totality fan about you. Tell us about Tim Timberlake.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah. I'm a son.

[Megan Ashley]

And.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, my whole perspective of life is. Is lived through that lens. And the reason it's skewed to that perspective. I lost my dad when I was really young. I got terminally ill when I was 12.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

He was my hero. And he was a pastor alongside of my mom. And I never saw him do anything that would break the integrity of the assignment that he had. So when he got sick with cancer, I got really angry with God. And at 12 years old, I kind of turned my back on God and started running in the opposite direction. And my desire was to make God as angry with me as I was with him. And really just turned to a lifestyle that was contrary to the lifestyle that my parents wanted me, but they couldn't do anything because they were fighting for my dad's life. And so my father was in and out of the hospital for the better of five years. And the day after my 18th birthday, he transitioned from this life, went home to be with the Lord. And so my perspective from that was, man, I just want to be a good son to God. I wasn't a good son to my father. I wasn't a good son to my mom at that particular stage of life. My dad never saw me saved, never saw me walk in the things that he taught.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

Never saw me fulfill the dreams that God had placed in his heart for me. And so it really shaped my relationship with God. And, you know, in. In processing that over time, it dawned on me that a father is the only male in young men's life that really wants them to do better than he does. A healthy father, anyway.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, and so to not have that, to not hear another man say, I'm proud of you, or great job, or well done, it impacted me in such a way that it drew me closer to God. After many trials and tribulations, and I was in the streets and I was doing, you know, kind of my own thing, and ended up going to Hampton University to pursue basketball there. And my freshman year, I was in my apartment, sis. And I went to sleep, woke up, thought that I woke up and I was standing in front of a sea full of people. And I looked down at my hands, and it was blood smudged on my hands. And I heard the voice of God for the first time say the Longer you run from what I've called you to do. Everyone you could have influenced, their blood would be held to your account.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

I woke up freaked out of my mind. I called my mom, kind of explained to her what was going on. She started laughing and she explained to me that was the exact dream that my father had when God called him in the ministry. Wow. That was the moment that I turned my life around. Transfer from Hampton University to a Bible college in Detroit, Michigan. Finished up there, moved back to North Carolina after finishing, started pastoring. So I'm a son. I try to be a good son to God. Try to be a good son to my mom. I'm a husband to my wife Jen, who is my ace. That's my best friend. I'm a father to my son Max. And I get an opportunity to steward the assignment that God has given me through Celebration Church in Jacksonville, Florida, Orlando, Washington, D.C. north Carolina.

[Megan Ashley]

Oh, wow. I didn't know you had that many.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah, so 13 locations.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow, that's awesome.

[Tim Timberlake]

So, yeah, honored. Honored that I get an opportunity to dive into the Word of God weekend and week out and try to take people on a journey to get closer with Jesus.

[Megan Ashley]

And now a podcast host with my pastor, my road dog, big brother, Philip Anthony Mitchell.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

How's that journey been so far?

[Tim Timberlake]

It's been humbling. I was flying here, was reading some of the comments, just kind of people, what we now call our street team all over the world, from Australia to rural areas of Africa.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And people tuning in and going through scripture with us is humbling.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And to do it beside my best friend is. It's just an honor and a privilege.

[Megan Ashley]

It's fun. I'm sure it's fun. So tell me how this journey has been with this fourth book. Writing a book. And I think what I really like, outside of just like getting to know you, and obviously I'm going to support, like, that's my thing. But looking at the. The title, the Bumpy Road to Better, I was drawn to it because it feels honest. And what I mean by it feels honest is that it feels realistic and hopeful at the same time. Where it's. Because I feel like a lot of times in Christian, like in a Christian space, as. As leaders, influencers, whatever, for me, at least, I always want to be mindful of giving an accurate depiction on what this walk. Right. And the Bible tells us that the road is narrow.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

And some translations say hard is the way. Hard is the way. And being on this side of my. Of. Of my. Yes to the Lord. A serious yes to the Lord. I think I understand that more now. And I've been wrestling recently with the pace of sanctification, and I feel like your book kind of walks us through sanctification. Like, that's what sanctification is. It's a bumpy road.

[Tim Timberlake]

That's right. It's a bumpy road.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

And I think sometimes we hear, like, narrow.

It's like, okay, I can. I can deal with the narrow.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

But I want smooth and narrow.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't want bumpy.

[Tim Timberlake]

Bumpy. I don't want heels.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't want that.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

So kind of walk us through the beginning of how this kind of came about for you and the decision or how did the Lord lead you to wanting to write this book?

[Tim Timberlake]

That's a great question. This book was a little different in that it was my most challenging because it was the most transparent. And it came in the middle of one of the greatest seasons of intense pain and discomfort. And so for me, 21 years of leadership, 21 years of pastor, and I've never had a season where I didn't lead with pain. I've never had a season where I didn't leave it great pain. But the last three years of leadership has been pure hell.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so my mindset and perspective behind it is if I'm going to laugh about it later, I'm going to laugh about it now. And I want to journey through this season of pain and hardship and difficulty with my pen and my pat and my word and not lean into my emotions, not lead into my opinions, not lean into my perspective. But I need the mind of Christ.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so after I started to kind of write this down and kind of journey with my Word and journey with God through it, I started to come up with these different hard things that, with the help of Jesus Christ, he's helped me navigate and really get through. And some of them going through, because I. I truly believe oftentimes we try to get through certain things that God wants us to go through. And, you know, in this season, I am going through some of those things that are in the book. And if we're not honest with ourselves and we hide the difficulties and the moments of pain that we are navigating, then we won't see healing and wholeness the way that Jesus desires for us to see them in totality.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You like what I did? Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

So can we dive into that just a little bit? Because, again, this is something that I'm currently wrestling in.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And so when you Say that there are things that God wants us to go through but we want to just get kind of almost even get out of it.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

Like I just want to get over. And I, and I, I understand the tension of that. So what does that look like when, when the Lord, like how can we cultivate patience in something that the Lord is trying to get us through? Not get us out of, but get us through.

[Tim Timberlake]

I think in it is developed a greater dependency on Him. And one of the greatest things that has happened to me over the last season is what I call a dry spell or a wilderness spell. And a wilderness and a dry spell is one of the greatest things that God could ever do for us because it is an indication that our soul needs something more than what we can provide. Our spirit, man needs something more than what we can provide. We don't need self help. We can't help ourself. We can't save ourself. We can't heal ourself. And we desperately need the grace of Jesus Christ, the healing balm of Jesus Christ, the presence of Jesus Christ to help navigate different tumultuous seasons of our life. And so in the things that we are going through, I believe is when we discover areas, facets, characteristics of God that we could never experience if we had not gone through them. And so we may know God as a healer if we read about it and read about what he's done in the life of other people. We may know Jesus as a redeemer, but we won't know that personally until he's redeemed something in our life, until he's healed something in our life, until he has been those things for us. And so I believe it is in those moments where we don't get information about Jesus, but we get revelation about who Jesus actually is in that facet, in that area, in that season of pain. And so that's where the book was birthed. Out of seasons of not just one, but the compounding of pain and difficulty. And it's when you get to those moments in time that you have, you know, to make a decision whether you're going to trust Jesus.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Or whether you're going to manufacture your own season.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And what are, what are practical ways in which people can hold tension between knowing that he's a redeemer and waiting for the redemption of, of a situation. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, like you said, like I can know him as a healer, but I'm still waiting to be healed. 100 so how do I How do I practically hold tension with that part of sanctification of, like, I know you can. You're not doing it yet. What are you trying to do in me?

Because sometimes it can feel.

I'm just being transparent. Sometimes it can feel extremely overwhelming at knowing where to put my attention.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

Do I need to put my attention on my patients? Do I need to fight? Is this warfare?

Do you know what I'm saying?

It's like, how do you know where you are in the process?

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah. For me personally, it's surrendering doubt every single day. That's one of the greatest things I struggle with. And it's not that I doubt that God exists. It's not even that I doubt God is good. Sometimes I doubt. Is God good to me?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know what I'm saying? And I, I. It may sound weird to those that are watching, like, ah, man, this guy's a pastor. I don't. I don't know if that's safe or theologically sound, but, you know, I'm reminded of the Father who has a son that has been tormented.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Tim Timberlake]

He takes his son to the disciples. The disciples can't do anything.

[Megan Ashley]

Yes. Is that chapter 17?

[Tim Timberlake]

It is.

[Megan Ashley]

I'm so good. I have it.

I literally.

That was one of the chapters I wanted to talk to you about.

I literally have it.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And he takes his son to Jesus and he says, you know, can you heal him? And Jesus says, I can. Do you believe? And he says, I believe.

[Megan Ashley]

Help my unbelief.

[Tim Timberlake]

Help my unbelief. And I truly believe that that Father held that perspective not because he doubted Jesus ability, but because when his son was jumping into the fire, he was the one going after him. When his son was jumping into the water, he was the one going after him.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And he's had what I call faith fatigue. He's been dealing with the same thing so long over and over again that his faith at one point has taken hit after hit after hit. And now he's faced with an opportunity with the person that can change his trajectory and life. But in order for him to be who it is that Jesus desires for him to be, in order for his son to operate in healing and wholeness the way he desires, he has to be completely authentic and transparent and say, jesus, I believe, but there's also a side of me that doesn't believe. You know what I'm saying? And that for me, is the tension that I live in because I've just been through so much pain. I've been through so Much heartbreak and heartache that oftentimes I'm like, okay, God, I know you're good. I know you're able, but are you able to do it for your boy? Are you able, able to bring me through this season that I am in? And I'm in one of those seasons now.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

I'm. I'm in the middle of it. And I am both hopeful and I am doubtful.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, but as long as I continue to surrender that doubt daily to Jesus, my doubt doesn't become an idol in my life.

[Megan Ashley]

That's good. It's crazy that you say faithful fatigue because I literally was studying and fighting just all types of stuff in my mind. And I was trying to figure out what I wanted to talk about for another episode that I have to record. And one of the points was faithful fatigue. That was, that's literally what I wrote down is like being had. Like actually what the Bible tells us not to do, which is don't grow weary.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And well doing. But that's a real thing. I think that we have to hold tension.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

And, and what I love about what you brought up and in this scripture with the, with the Father and this and with his son and say him saying, you know, I believe, but help my own belief. I feel like there is opportunity to not be as vulnerable nowadays with that. That's the reality. It's like, I believe and it's not even. And for me, it's not even like, it's not even that I don't believe that you're able to do it for me. I know you're able to do it. I know you're able to do it for me. You're able to do it for anybody. It's the tension of will you do it?

[Tim Timberlake]

That's right. Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And do I? And, and, and, yeah. It's like, will you do it for me? I don't deserve for you too.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

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But what, you know, what is going to happen to my faith if you don't do it? Do you know what I mean? And how to just hold the tension with all of those things. I feel like that's really hard. And I feel like those are even maybe some questions that people don't have answers to, necessarily outside of what you're saying is like submitting that doubt to the Lord every, every day and not making it an idol.

[Tim Timberlake]

But oftentimes God doesn't answer it with a response. He answers it with fruit. And you know, one of the questions, you know, that you were saying, I was just, you know, kind of reminded of this sometimes I asked God the question, why would you do it for me? Like, I, I know me. I know what I think. I know who I am. I know what's in my heart separate from Jesus. I know I know me. And I know that you know me.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Why would you do it for me?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And it goes back to my first statement, because I am a son, you know what I'm saying? I think about my 8 year old boy and he's a knucklehead and he's a little version of me so I know what he's thinking. I can see his little wheel spinning. I can see him about to do something that he's not supposed to do. But at the end of the day, he belongs to me. He is mine. Yeah, and there's nothing that he can do to make me love him less than what I already love him and I am view that way magnified times infinity in the eyes of God.

[Megan Ashley]

Okay, real quick guys. Question have you ever needed money faster.

Than your next paycheck?

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[Tim Timberlake]

And God reminds me of that.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And sometimes he has to remind me of that because I operate oftentimes from that place of insecurity because I know my past.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And if we operate from that place of insecurity, then we operate from pride. And what I had to learn is pride is viewing yourself any kind of way differently than how God views you so good.

[Megan Ashley]

Can you dig into that a little bit more? Because that my mom has had to, like, really. She. She always says, like, pride is her biggest thing, that she has to like, surrender to the Lord, which I think it's all of us, but I think it shows up differently for everyone. But I. I think in my maturity, learning, like growing and learning, I've learned that, oh, your insecurities and your self loathing and your imposter syndrome and all of that is really rooted in pride and pride.

[Tim Timberlake]

And it. And.

[Megan Ashley]

And you would think that it's like, no, I know that I'm. I'm not like, it's like a false humility. It's pride.

[Tim Timberlake]

Y.

[Megan Ashley]

How like, tell. Talk more about that, how dangerous that is. Because I really, I. I didn't really get to a place of like, really recognizing, confessing and repenting of that until this year of realizing, like, oh, a lot of that is just pride.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

I think, you know, one of the most powerful scriptures that anchor who we are in Christ Jesus is how God speaks to Jesus when he's getting baptized. Matthew, chapter 3, verse 13. And Jesus makes a decision. John the Baptist baptizes Jesus, dove descends upon him, and God from heaven says, this is my son who I am well pleased with. Right. He affirms his identity, and then he affirms him, I am well pleased. And God does the same thing with us. And so what insecurity does is it skews the perspective that God has already given us. And we put more emphasis on the identity that we think than we do the identity that God has said about us. And so that is pride. We often think pride is ego or we often think pride is thinking more highly of yourself than you should. But pride is also thinking more lowly of yourself than what you should and seeing yourself contrary to how God sees you. And so that's how it becomes pride in our life. Who am I to argue with what God has called me?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Who am I to argue with how God sees me?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And anytime I do, I am operating from a spirit of pride.

[Megan Ashley]

Because, I mean, I think it says even in Romans, like, don't think too highly of yourself, but also don't think too low of yourself, a sober mind of reality, of. Of who you are and how God sees you. What. What are some ways for you that you've been able to balance having a healthy perspective of how God sees you?

Because I.

Because I do believe that if you don't.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

Being a Christian in general. Yeah. Bumpy road.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

100. I don't do.

Do everything right.

Bumpy.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

But not having an accurate depiction of how God sees you causes for like an even more bumpier road. So how, how have you been able to navigate through having a healthy, you know, perspective on how God sees you?

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And. And how do you stay away from leaning into those temptations of pride?

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah. So if faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God, my doubts are increased by not hearing the word of God. And so for me, if I take a day off.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Tim Timberlake]

From getting in the word of God. From hearing the word of God, then the voice of every failure, the voice of every Contradiction. The voice of the enemy begins to scream so loud in my mind that it's hard for me to focus on the things that I should focus on. And so I can't have days where I take off from the word of God.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Like, I. I just, I. I can't. Like, I have to honor the spirit of God in me enough to spend time in the word of God. And hearing the word of God.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And when I do that, it helps to silence the voice of the enemy.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

So that I'm not believing his voice over the voice of God, and I'm not believing my voice over the voice of God. So in life, we can listen to one of four voices. You can listen to the voice of others. And if you do that, you're always banned to what people want to see out of you. You live for the affirmation of the people around you. You can listen to your own voice. And your own voice is fleeting because we have a tendency to lean towards our emotions instead of the plan of God. You can listen to the voice of the enemy. And the voice of the enemy will never lead you into truth, because it can't. So we'll always skew who you are. It will always make you skew your perspective of who you are. But then you can listen to the voice of God. The voice of God will always lead you closer to his presence, would always lead you to become more like him, would always lead you to make greater sacrifice than what your flesh wants to make. And oftentimes we want to listen to ourself or we want to listen to others, because we can see, we can feel those people. We can touch. And we think in our mind, they hold instant fruit. But so often we make people idols. We make their opinion idols, and we start making decisions based off of what other people want to see. If I'm not careful, that breaks my focus for sure. And the danger in that is when I'm not anchored in the voice of God, distractions begin to look like opportunities. And so it doesn't mean that it's a bad thing.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

It's just not God's thing for me in this particular season of life. And so I have to constantly hear the voice of God. The word of God. Spend time hearing the. The word of God so that it can build my faith.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And really starve that doubt in me.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And because I think that when it comes to. And I've talked about this before, but when it comes to the enemy, he's not necessarily. I mean, he's Lying because he's not telling you the whole truth.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

But everything that he says to us isn't always a lie.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

In the. Like some. Because he's an accuser of the brother. Right. The things he's accusing you of, in.

Fact are like things he be accusing me.

Absolutely are in fact true.

[Tim Timberlake]

100.

[Megan Ashley]

But if I don't abide, if I don't lean into the word and know truth, then I can't, I can't speak against like I'll just consume the facts of whatever the enemy is telling me. Right?

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

And then I just meditate on those things. And instead of doing what Christ did is that when Satan tried to tempt him with something, he spoke the word.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, and like. And he. Because he knew the word. He was the word. Right. So he spoke the word. And I think that that is an easy temptation. Like, and I know we talk about it all the time, like, oh, read your word, read your word. But I don't think we. Like that's a real thing.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

Because those voices are so loud all the time. All the time. Especially if you're a person like me who's like extremely sensitive and. Yeah, just sensitive to everything. That voice can be so loud where it can overwhelm me. Do you know what I'm saying? If I'm not constantly filling myself up with the truth of God's word. You know what I mean?

[Tim Timberlake]

And so often, you know, one of the things that I discovered in walking this bumpy road is the enemy will always call you by the things you feel most self conscious about from your past, but he knows your name. God knows the things of your past, but he always calls you by your name. And so I can always tell who's speaking to me based upon how they address me. And one of the things that I think for our viewers and our listeners to know each one of us. I have both a king and a fool on the inside of me. You have both a queen and a fool on the inside of you. The one that is addressed is the one that will respond. So I have to be very careful not to lean into that.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And to cast that thought down, to cast that voice down, to cast that idea down so that I'm not responding as to how the enemy is addressing me.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. What. When writing this book, and I know you said that this was a book that you were most transparent in and I remember seeing that you had like, I think you had gathered your family together.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

And you let them, you read them some of the stuff and they were even shocked by some of this stuff that you put in there. What was that? Like, why were they so shocked about some of this stuff that you put in the book? And then why were you. Why did you feel like you needed to be so transparent and vulnerable in this book in particular? Because there's another book where you talked about your divorce. You talked about harder things, but this one, you felt like you were more vulnerable.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah, I gave more detail in this book and specifically around the area of divorce and the video that you're referencing. I talk about traumatic childhood experience that me and my sister have. And my mom was shocked because she. She didn't know all of the details of it until I was explaining it to her. And then she started to remember and kind of recall those things. And so the reason I felt it necessary to write is because I was further removed from it and gave God, you know, the opportunity to really heal those areas of my heart so that I could speak from a scar instead of a wound. I don't want to process anything that's still a wound publicly. I want God to heal it. I want him to identify the areas in there that may still need more healing and more time and, you know, more time with him. I truly believe that time does not heal all. I truly believe time and God heals all. And so certain things that I wrote in this book, I just sat with God and allowed time to bring out of me the things that he healed in me so that I could help other people go on the journey of healing as well. And so that's the difference between this book, you know, there's periods in my life and the other books that I had wrote that were too fresh to really go into great detail. But this one, I was a little further removed from it and honestly just got the liberty from the Holy Spirit to write it without being messy, without spilling tea, you know what I'm saying? But really finding the lessons and the wisdom from those moments of pain and heartbreak to allow people to navigate their own pain and heartbreak with the hope of Jesus Christ.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that you talked about not talking about things from a place of a womb, but from a place of a scar. And I think for. I can identify with that greatly because I feel like with the. So much of the bigger things that have happened in my life have been so public that they're there. Feels like for some people, they feel like they want to know details.

[Tim Timberlake]

They want to know 100% what happened.

[Megan Ashley]

What, you know, they want to know everything. And I understand. I Understand that to an extent, but I. I want to be mindful in the same way that you said, like, I want to. I want to come. I never want to come from a place of, like, messiness, but from a place of, like, want to help edify the church. I don't want to help bring more mess. The church is already messy, okay?

[Tim Timberlake]

1,000%.

[Megan Ashley]

We already got enough going on. I ain't trying to add to no more mess, okay?

I'm just.

I want to edify. I want to. I want to. I want to. But I also want to be transparent, vulnerable, and. And. And. And show people that, like, hey, like, just because I got this platform don't mean I'm. I got it all together or I'm just this super whatever, you know what I mean? So how do. How do you know when you've gotten to a place where, like, okay, this is a scar. This isn't a womb. Like, this is a. This is a scar. Now, I can. I can talk about this.

[Tim Timberlake]

So let. Let me utilize my divorce as an example. And I talk about it in stages, from my last book to this book, giving more detail in this book than the last. But I had to ask myself the question, how much detail will become information in the wrong hands? Right? Because then if it's information in the wrong hands, it becomes a weapon. And so I had to sit with that for a while, and I had to ask myself the question, how much of this will help people heal? And how much of this will become a weapon to potentially harm me in the future? And so when you ask yourself those questions and you ask God, okay, God, navigate the words that you want written through me so that this doesn't become information. Because I don't want to give people just information. I don't want to inform people about what has happened to me. I want to allow people to go on a journey with me as to how I navigated this season with Jesus. So that season was painful for me. It was a season I did not expect. It was a season that gutted me. And it really took a portion of my life where I no longer believed in love. I never wanted to feel that pain again.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so when I'm thinking through that lens and I'm thinking through, okay, this particular season of my life, it was one of those seasons where I needed God more than anything else because I had nothing else. I want to write from that place instead of the details of why I got divorced.

[Megan Ashley]

Got it?

[Tim Timberlake]

You know what I'm saying? And so although it was a Painful season. Although I walked through divorce and it had nothing to do with my decision, I also have to keep in mind that there's another party involved.

[Megan Ashley]

Correct. Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know what I'm saying?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And. And so I never want to drag back into a scenario someone or something that's moved on with their life.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Because that doesn't provide, you know, revelation, wisdom, understanding in context to where I am.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And I think. I think the main thing is that you're saying, and that I've even felt just with this stuff in my life is like, I truly have a strong conviction for everything to be led back to Christ.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely does.

[Megan Ashley]

This is what I'm providing you what? Whatever the information is, whatever the. The process that I went through, anything that I'm saying, is it helping you become a better Christian?

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

Is it helping you love him more?

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

Does it help you love people more?

[Tim Timberlake]

100%.

[Megan Ashley]

Not. Does it make you not want to love him more and not want to love people more? And I think that that's the thing as. As. Especially as leaders, like. And I get the temptation for viewers to want to know the details, especially when you've been invested. Right. It's like, I've been here.

[Tim Timberlake]

Especially when people think they know you because they watch you.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know what I'm saying? They follow you. So they feel like, man, I have. I have the right to know. You know, I'm saying, which is. That's another.

[Megan Ashley]

And it's like, yeah, you don't. And I. And I. And again, I get it.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I understand that temptation to feel that way. I think that what I would. What I would want to encourage, like, just especially leaders in this space and all the things to do is like, your responsibility isn't to satisfy that temptation.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

Your responsibility is to lead people closer to Christ.

[Tim Timberlake]

That's right.

[Megan Ashley]

And again, I have to ask myself in the content that I'm creating, in the posts that I'm posting and the things that I'm tweeting or on threads or whatever, is this helping people get closer to Christ? Even the temptation of not wanting them to be closer to me.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right. 100%.

[Megan Ashley]

By leaning into victimhood.

[Tim Timberlake]

Right.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

Because that makes you be closer to me.

[Tim Timberlake]

You identify with my pain, you identify with my season. Let me help you go on a journey. But if it does not lead people closer to the heart of Jesus Christ, it is information that will either do harm to you or will do harm to those that are consuming it.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

It has to be revelation given by Jesus Christ in And through the season and situation that you've navigated.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And as. Okay, so just because we're here, I'm just gonna ask because as a pastor, I'm. I'm interested in what your vant point is in the culture of social media, content, all the things. Because Phil is your best friend, I can imagine that you guys feel similar to. To what's more important and what's not important. But as a pastor, how do you shepherd people in a way that doesn't allow them to lean into this, like, hyper criticism, Even this, like, hyper spiritual. I feel like we're in this weird.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't know what's going on. It's like this weird. Like prophetic. But. But it's. I don't know. I don't know what's going on.

[Tim Timberlake]

It's. It's strange.

[Megan Ashley]

It's a strange. Strange things are happening. So how can we discern? Because I do believe everything is spiritual. I actually believe everything is spiritual. I believe that, and I believe everything is deep to an extent. I'm one of those people. I'm like, everything is that deep. It is. The. Is deep. Right. But some stuff is kooky, and it's like, we're not.

We're.

How do we navigate that? Like, how do you. Like, how are you managing.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

This season of weirdness. I guess if.

[Tim Timberlake]

If I argue with the fool, who's the bigger fool?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know what I'm saying? And so for me, my assignment isn't to everyone. My assignment is to a certain people. And, you know, if the people that God has called me to influence, to lead, to shepherd, understand my heart, then they'll receive my correction, you know, And I think sometimes we get in a habit of wanting to be liked by the people that we lead, and that's normal. It's natural. I lived there for a great portion of my leadership. I started passion when I was 20 years old. So, like, the first six years of leadership, I just wanted people to like me, you know, I'm saying I'm gonna just. I. I'm trying to help people just don't hate me. You know what I'm saying? And the majority. And the majority of people hated me that I live. You know what I'm saying? I'm. They. They either. They didn't. Either. They either did not like me, they did not view me as their pastor because they. They thought they knew me, or they compared me to my father. You know what I'm saying? So that was the first five or six years of leadership. But I think that once you grow in leadership, you grow immaturity in the things of God. You kind of move beyond wanting to be liked and even respected and honored, and you just want to be obedient to God. And so that's where I am. I don't care if people don't like me. I just want to be obedient. And sometimes in being obedient, it causes people to be uncomfortable. And, you know, we live in a society in a generation where if you make people uncomfortable, they attribute that to God telling them, my season is up.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

And that is a lie.

[Megan Ashley]

Wow.

[Tim Timberlake]

And I think we have to redefine what friends are right now in society. A friend is the click of a button. You're my friend because I follow you. You're my friend because I watch your stuff. You're my friend because I listen. And that's not a friend. You know what I'm saying? So I think we have to redefine what leadership is. I think we have to redefine what relationships look like, what friendship is, and have people in our life that's not impressed by us. And, you know, everybody needs that. Those people in your life. And I think, think for those watching and listening to this moment right here, you have to have those people.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Hold you accountable.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And allow you to know. Okay. Followers does not equate to fruit. Followers does not equate to friendship. There's a difference between having fans and having family.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, I want family.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, I want. I want to be a part of the family of God. I want to be a part of the family that he is calling and drawing close to his heart. And those people, they receive godly correction. Those people receive the word of God with gladness, although it convicts the hell out of their flesh. Those people receive community and fellowship. And those are the people that I spend my time focusing on, not the people that are kind of bucking the system and our rebels and our fake prophets and our people that are on social media predicting the rapture, because apparently it's happening. It's happening. It is happening.

[Megan Ashley]

I don't know if it's.

[Tim Timberlake]

We right now. We are.

[Megan Ashley]

We're in heaven right now. We are in eternity today.

[Tim Timberlake]

We gone.

[Megan Ashley]

If you're watching this, you were left.

[Tim Timberlake]

I'm telling you, my. I don't know if you've seen this clip of this past. He says, write this down. If you get to heaven and I'm not there, yes, you've gone to hell.

[Megan Ashley]

I saw that.

It Was like, years ago. I think I saw that. I've seen a lot of interesting things in the last couple of days. I even ran across a clip of a man building an ark. He's actually currently building an ark.

[Tim Timberlake]

All right, brother.

[Megan Ashley]

He said September. No, he said December. I think it was in December. That the Lord is going to destroy the.

[Tim Timberlake]

The earth again with the flood.

[Megan Ashley]

With.

Even though he promised he wouldn't do it again. I'm like, I promise.

I think I read.

[Tim Timberlake]

Wow.

[Megan Ashley]

That he wouldn't do it again.

[Tim Timberlake]

Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

But this man is convinced that he's come.

So it's just a. Weird. So.

Okay. My question for you is this, because I do see a lot of.

I do see a lot of zeal.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yes.

[Megan Ashley]

And I think zeal is beautiful. I think when there is not wisdom attached to that zeal, it is dangerous.

[Tim Timberlake]

That part.

[Megan Ashley]

And so I think that because I. I feel like with TikTok and social media, we see a lot of people becoming more aware of what they may deem as their spiritual gifts.

Right.

And so as a pastor, as a leader, how would you disciple somebody if they're like, I am prophet. I am a prophet to the nations, and the Lord is giving me dreams? And because here's the thing. I believe the Lord speaks in dreams. I don't despise prophecy. I believe in all of the gifts.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

I believe we have to have them in the church. I believe in all of those things. I also believe in order. I also believe in structure and in order.

So how would you disciple a zealous person?

They're like, pastor Tim, the Lord woke me up. It was 3:33am which means that the Lord is telling me, da, da, da, da. What do you say to that person?

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah. Before God calls you to be a prophet to the nations, he calls you to be a prophet to your neighbor. And if you can't have a conversation with the people around you, then it's really, really difficult for people to receive you in other parts of the world. And I would say to that person, and we have those people who feel a call from God, and they may have a call from God, but the call comes before the process. And so there's a process that takes place. There's maturity in Christ that takes place. There's pruning that takes place. Before you step into the assignment of the call, you think about the life of David. David was called to be king. He did not assume the throne immediately after he was called. Saul still had that position. Saul still had the throne. Saul still had the power. At the same time, Saul's anointing was gone. He still kept the title. It tells me that God is the only one that will fire you and let you keep working.

[Megan Ashley]

Yikes.

[Tim Timberlake]

He still thought that he was king. He didn't have an anointing. David knew that God had called him to be king, but he didn't have the throne. And so there's a process of pruning, there's a process maturing, there's a process of growing, there's a process of accountability that we all have to keep with our Samuels so that we can step into the assignment of the call that God gives us. And that's the part that I think a lot of zealous prophets, pastors, evangelists, teachers, so called apostles, they have, it's, it's wild. They have, they have no patience to walk through because it doesn't fit the bill of what they expected. And you know, a lot of times when you encounter people like that and you walk with people like that, if people don't listen, then you don't have to continue to share your, your voice.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so with me, I'll share godly wisdom with those people and I'll expose them to other great men and women who operate in that gift, who operate in that call and allow them to become a student and sit under that anointing to expose them to what that gift looks like and operates like in a vessel that carries it with integrity. If they're not willing to do that, then I question if they're called or if they're just anxious to have notoriety and popularity, which is what a lot of tick tock prophets and pastors are hungry for. They're not hungry to speak the mind of Christ. They are hungry for people to hear them. And there is a difference.

[Megan Ashley]

So how do you.

Okay, on the opposite side or not opposite side, but how do you disciple those who might consume that type of content? Maybe they're not the ones saying they're the prophet, but they're consuming that content. How would you disciple those people? Because there's a lot of that too, where they, they, they're just so, you're, you're just, just listening to so many people, you know what I mean? And Jackie and I talk about this a lot. She's always like, you don't need a whole bunch of people. You don't need to listen to a.

[McDonald's Announcer]

Whole bunch of people.

[Megan Ashley]

Get you some solid, absolutely handful of good, solid teachers. Like, I don't listen to a whole bunch of people. Right you know what I'm saying? So how. How would you disciple?

[Tim Timberlake]

I would encourage those people to do inventory on the vessels that they listen to. Is there fruit that follows? Has what they prophesied come to pass? If they are predicting the Rapture and you are still here, are you not in line with Christ or are they lying to you?

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

Just practical.

[Tim Timberlake]

Just practical.

[Megan Ashley]

We gotta stop detaching our minds 100%. We gotta critically think through some stuff.

[Tim Timberlake]

Just. Just think. You know, we. Sometimes we look for prophecy when God is like, nope, use discernment.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

We look for a word of knowledge when God is like, nope, use wisdom.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Find it in my word. And we're looking for the very deep things, when in fact, the things God desires for us to discover are right in front of us. I remember one time I ordered something and this package came to my doorstep. And I didn't pay the package no attention because it looked differently than what I ordered. So it sat on my front little desk. When you walk in my house for like, four days, I'm sitting here tracking this package. I'm like, where the heck is this package? And it's saying, deliver. And I'm like, man, it is no way this thing is delivered. You know what I'm saying? So I'm doing research and I'm. I'm contacting the. The shipping agency. I contact the. The company that sent it, and they're like, no, we sent it out this date. It arrived at your house at this date. So I'm looking all over. I'm looking for this thing. I opened the package, and it is what I ordered. It just arrived differently than what I expected. And sometimes the gifts of God arrive differently than we expect. Sometimes it arrives through discipline, sometimes it arrives through structure, sometimes it arrives through boundaries, but we don't want those.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so we look for people who will affirm our insecurity. We look for people that will affirm our lack of knowledge in the word of God, but cater to the things that we want because it tickles our flesh. And those are the type of people that, in all honesty, are looking for men and women to cater to what they want versus them turning their life back to the heart of Jesus to walk out what he desires for them. And, you know, Scripture teaches us in the last days, men and women will become lovers of themselves. And that's what we are, Jesus. You know, a society, a culture of people who love themselves. So they look for teachers and prophets and pastors who teach them how to love themselves better instead of how to follow Jesus Christ.

[Megan Ashley]

Dangerous.

[Tim Timberlake]

Very dangerous.

[Megan Ashley]

Very dangerous. Okay, we don't have a whole bunch of time, but I want to know your heart for the bumpy road to better.

[Tim Timberlake]

And.

[Megan Ashley]

And what? I mean, and I feel like it's a cliche question to ask, but I do believe that it matters because I do want to know what your intentions and your heart is. For those who pick up the book, read it, what do you want them to get out of it? I think I can assume that. I know that you want them to love the Lord and you want their heart to be closer to the Lord.

But what.

What do you want or what do you feel like the Lord's intention is for this book?

[Tim Timberlake]

I think that the Lord's intention for this message is just to remind people that he sees them. And I think for me, that was the most rewarding part of writing it, is getting that reminder from God. I see you. I haven't forgotten you. I'm with you. And, yeah, I pray that the readers feel that when they. When they read it. And, you know, it's something powerful to know that God sees you.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And I remember we do a lot of work in Africa, in Zimbabwe and Mokoponi, South Africa. And I remember being in the bush, and we went to this family's home, and they didn't have much of anything. They had a mat laying on the floor. It was a grandmother. She was 91 years old, taking care of her two grandchildren who were both under 8. And she welcomed us into her home. And she began to cry. She began to weep. And I asked the translator to ask her why she was crying. And she said, I had prayed for two weeks that God would allow us to eat. They were sharing a stick of bubble gum between the three of them for two weeks. And she said, and God heard me, and he saw me, and he saw me in such detail where he sent people from America to come to Africa to feed me. And you think about the intentionality of God, and sometimes it comes to a message. Sometimes it comes through a hug. I pray that when people read the book, they know that God sees them through an encouragement.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

On paper.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so that's my prayer.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

That they would feel that God sees them.

[Megan Ashley]

I.

When I was reading through just the chapters, I felt like if I was a new believer. And I wanted to know how to navigate through all the things, how to navigate through the journey. I feel like. And I. And I. What I love is that you put hard.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Everywhere.

[Tim Timberlake]

Everywhere.

[Megan Ashley]

Because it is hard.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Like, it's not like you didn't say easy conversations, easy consequences, easy. Everything was like hard. And I think that there is a false theology that I think has been projected, produced through the prosperity gospel that tells you that when you become a Christian, life becomes easier.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

And doesn't become easier. And it significantly becomes harder.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely. More challenging. You have more enemies, more adversaries, more hurdles, more temptation. You know, the enemy doesn't attack people that play on his team.

[Megan Ashley]

Right.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know what I'm saying? And so when you make a decision to follow Jesus Christ and become a disciple of Jesus Christ, it gets very difficult. It gets very challenging. And one of the things that the enemy utilizes as a tool against you when you have a desire to walk out, your God given purpose is he tries to distract you with pain. And, you know, if you can look beyond the distractions and find Jesus in it. And then we become more like him.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. We, we usually. Because I really wanted to dive into the. The divorce journey because I don't get to talk to many people about that.

[Tim Timberlake]

We can, we can, we can go anywhere.

[Megan Ashley]

Well, because I. I'm curious at how you would.

Because I've been.

I've been noticing a lot lately that I feel like divorced people are not seen in the church and in particularly divorced women. I feel like men can get divorced and they can move on with their life, get remarried, all the things, and that's fine.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

But for a woman, I feel like it's really hard. I think divorce is hard in general. It's a hard conversation to have. But I'm interested in how you navigate that through the people that you disciple, Shepherd. Because I've been battling scripture. I've been wrestling with scripture.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

Paul has not made this very easy.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah.

[Megan Ashley]

With the conversation.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

Especially for women. Well, I mean, in general, but it. The conversation. Yeah. So I've just been like really wrestling and I've been, you know, seeking a lot of wisdom on just how to navigate through this, this new season. Even though it's only. It's been a couple years, but it still feels very.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yeah, it's. It's very, very fresh.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, it's still very fresh. I'm just curious on how you. Yeah. Disciple and shepherd those people with those type of circumstances.

[Tim Timberlake]

It's a great question. I think for me, helping people navigate divorce is helping people to heal from someone that they're mourning that's still alive. It's the only time that we mourn someone that's still here.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, and that's what makes divorce so painful. And when Paul is navigating, you know, his letters through divorce, he refers to Moses and the law. And, you know, when Moses is talking through it, he allows it on a couple of basis that are often taken out of context. And so when people utilize the perspective God hates divorce, I truly believe God hates divorce.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, for sure.

[Tim Timberlake]

I truly believe that. But I believe that he hates divorce because of what it does to his children, what it does to their heart, what it does to their perspective of love, what it does to their perspective of relationship and marriage. And so just like every good parent does not want to see their children suffer and go through pains, God has a heightened sensitivity to us in that regard. And so the way that I shepherd people navigating divorce is slowly. Let's go on this journey, let's walk it out. Tell me how you feel today. It is a day by day journey. And you have good days and you have days like, what the heck? I thought I was beyond this. I thought I was healed from that. And it in fact is super, super fresh. And so it's a slow journey. It is a journey that keeps me dependent on my relationship with Jesus, but at the same time, I can't live where I was.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, I. One of the saddest things I think we experience as people who have walked through divorce is we often reflect on what was instead of what is and where we're headed. And so I encourage those that are navigating divorce to know you still carry value, because value is put in question when you go to divorce. Oftentimes the person on the opposite side of the cause behind the divorce really questions their value and their significance in life. And I just want to remind those that are watching, that are listening, that are in that position right now. You are significant and you are special and you hold value. And what happened to you is not your identity. That's good, you know, and that's why I remind myself of my identity in Christ. I'm a son first, you know, and so I lead with everything with that because I know my failures. Yeah, I know. I know what has happened to me. I know what the enemy tries to label me as.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

But I am not what happened to me.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

I am so much more than what has happened to me.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so the journey of walking with those that have been divorced and those that are living single after divorce, those that are in relationships after divorce, is a constant and daily reminder that your value is not like, not shaken, not rocked by what has happened to you. It is anchored in the hope of Jesus Christ. And so it's a slow journey and, you know, it's a beautifully painful journey.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. It is.

[Tim Timberlake]

Where you really discover who you are.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

It's so. So long. Your identity was connected to somebody else.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah. And then it gets ripped away, you know, and you're like, who?

[Tim Timberlake]

What in the world?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, and so that. That journey, it takes time.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

To rebuild your soul and to get totality back to your soul when your soul was tethered to someone else.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

It takes time.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And do you.

[Megan Ashley]

Do you believe that it's so taboo, the conversation, because of how.

Scripture.

It's not hard. I don't wanna. I don't wanna, like, disparage scripture and I don't want it to sound that way, but it feels like it's hard to know, based off of scripture, how to really approach divorce, know what to do with divorce, know how to move after divorce, all the things. So I feel like. So because it's very sensitive and like, whatever, we just stay away from the conversation. All in all altogether, I think it's.

[Tim Timberlake]

Difficult because we approach divorce from the perspective of what people told us who may not have a sound basis of theology.

[Megan Ashley]

Got it.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so when Paul is writing, he gives the instructions because women were viewed as commodities and men were divorcing their wives left and right for younger females. And so he's telling them this grieves the heart of the Father. He's telling them this is unlawful. And so there's context there that I believe we don't often break down. And we assume that what other people tell us based upon their religious viewpoint or their perspective of scripture, is right. And we structure our life and our relationships around that. And so you have people that are suffering in silence now because they believe that if they get. Get a divorce, which certain people in abusive relationships, in extreme toxic relationship, there's nowhere in scripture that tells you to stay in that. Right. And so if I'm a father and I find out my kid is going through an abusive relationship, I want my kid out of that relationship. The heart of the Father is no different.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

And so we. We have to do our research on what did God actually say?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

What is the heart of God behind this subject? And how can I navigate the rest of my life moving forward with sound theology from the context of divorce? And once we do that, we no longer take the opinions of men and women or best practices or their viewpoint, but we actually get the heart and the mind of Christ to navigate forward what it is that he desires for us.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, that's good.

[Tim Timberlake]

So I think it's hard for people that don't want to do the work of finding in Scripture what it actually says.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Going to therapy.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Navigating it with a Christian therapist, for sure. That can help you.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

Discover your blind spots.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

You know, the reality is all of us have blind spots, so we need someone with a sidewalk perspective.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

The danger in blind spots is blind spots let you look, but they don't let you see. And each one of us have blind spots that we need other people with sidewalk perspective to say, hey, you need to watch out for that. Or three months from now, when you're healing, this temptation is going to come. You know what I'm saying?

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah.

[Tim Timberlake]

So we need those people in our life, and, you know, that helps to safeguard us from the weapons that are turned against us.

[Megan Ashley]

I think that that's. Yeah, I think. I think that's extremely helpful because there are so many people who watch. Who have navigated through divorce, are navigating through divorce.

Some people. And, you know, there's even some people.

Where it's like, you don't need to get divorced. Y' all just need to get some therapy.

[Tim Timberlake]

Absolutely.

[Megan Ashley]

Both of y'. All. Like, y' all just. Y' all need to sit down and mature and get some therapy. Um, but I do believe that that's one of those bumpy things that you have to navigate.

[Tim Timberlake]

Yep.

[Megan Ashley]

On this journey with Christ is like, that's a real thing. And I never want to shy away from having some of those. Those more harder, difficult, nuanced conversations, because in the church, it does feel like people shy away from talking about it because they. Out of fear of being theologically wrong, out of fear of being, you know, insensitive or whatever. And I can understand that. So thank you for giving wisdom for that. Before we get out of here, though, we always do, at the end of every podcast, I always give my guests the opportunity to give our listeners and viewers a journal prompt. I want people to be able to sit with the conversation and process. I believe, say a lot moments are necessary, especially in the time that we live in where we're just moving from thing to thing. So what would be a good journal prompt for our listeners and viewers today?

[Tim Timberlake]

I think for those listening, watching, to understand, and for some of us, remember that God moves your future towards you at the speed of your obedience. And some of us are going too fast, and we need to slow down and move at God's speed. The reason I say that is because if the enemy can't get you to quit, oftentimes he gets you to speed up. And so I would say go at the pace of grace. Go at the pace of God. And don't box God into your expectations and your anticipations, but allow him to fulfill His Word. And so God doesn't live up to your expectations, he never promises to live up to your expectations, but he always promises to live up to His Word. And when we align our expectations with the Word of God, we see the hand of God, do something at the speed of God that we cannot see any other way. So that would be my journal prompt.

[Megan Ashley]

I love that. I love that. So that's a good way for us to process through where. Where's my pace? Is it too fast? Is it too slow? Or is it aligned with the pace of which God has. For me, I think that's a great journal prompt. Make sure you guys go grab the Bumpy Road to Better by Tim Timberlake. It's on Amazon Prime. On my Amazon prime or not Amazon prime, but my Amazon storefront. Make sure you guys grab it. I already have like four copies, so I'm gonna do a giveaway. I'll figure out how we're gonna do the giveaway. Make sure that when this episode comes out, make sure you go to my Instagram and you'll see how we're gonna do a giveaway for the book. But I do have a lot of copies that I want to, that I want to bless somebody with. But if you go to my Amazon storefront, it'll be on there. Make sure you get it. Walk through it with somebody. I always think like, sometimes getting a book is best when you go through it with somebody else. So like get one for you and then get one for your homegirl or get one for. For you and your homeboy and like walk through it together and, and just process and pray and just see how the Lord leads you and guides you as you journey through this book. Tim, thank you for being here.

I hope you come back.

You're always invited. Thank you. And so yeah, we love you guys and we'll see you next week.

What's up you guys? I hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you so much for listening and.

I hope you felt encouraged in some way.

Be sure to like and follow into Tality Podcast everywhere you listen to your favorite shows. Follow into totality on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and be sure to turn on your post notifications so that you can be the first to listen whenever there's a new episode.

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[Tim Timberlake]

Chicken breakfast? Come on. I think you mean chicken dinner, bro.

[Megan Ashley]

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[Tim Timberlake]

All right, let me try it. Okay.

[Megan Ashley]

Yeah, totally.

[Tim Timberlake]

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