Inappropriate Characters 007

Summary

Podcast Summary: Inappropriate Characters 007

Hosts: James 'Grim' Desborough, Venger Satanis, RPG Pundit
Date: February 5, 2020
Episode Theme:
Gatekeeping, controversies, and the current state of discourse in the tabletop RPG (especially OSR) scene, with a strong focus on recent incidents of social and political conflict online, issues of tribalism and exclusion, and the underlying ideological rifts in the hobby.

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Episode Overview

The hosts—Venger Satanis, RPG Pundit, and Grim Jim—discuss recent controversies in the tabletop RPG community, including online feuds, cultural clashes, accusations of gatekeeping, and the impact of identity politics on both game design and community behavior. The show maintains its characteristic irreverent, combative, and unapologetically opinionated style, balancing personal anecdotes with commentary on broader issues.

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Key Topics and Discussion Points

1. The Alpha Blue Controversy & Online Tribalism

[00:13–07:45] Venger Satanis recounts a recent conflict on Facebook involving accusations from David Black (creator of The Black Hack) regarding his RPG Alpha Blue:

• Alpha Blue’s Reputation: Known for its intentionally "sleazy" sci-fi content, Alpha Blue has long been criticized by "social justice warriors" and the far left.
• Incident Recap: Upon rejoining Facebook to connect with fellow gamers, Venger is targeted in a post warning others not to befriend him, accusing him of sexism and homophobia due to content referencing the film "Waiting" and the so-called "penis showing game."
  • Notable quote:

    "This guy is Venture Satanis. And he's, I don't know, an...awful person, sexist and homophobic, all because of this very, very small reference to the movie 'Waiting.'" (Venger, [02:08])

• Online Retaliation & Fallout: The dispute spills over to other figures in the OSR, bringing more attention and criticism.
• Resolution: After extended debate and neutral parties pointing out misinformation, David Black removes his original post.
• Key insight: Venger notes the spread of negativity often stems from cursory judgments and mob mentality rather than genuine critique.

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2. Politics, Gatekeeping, and Public Discourse in RPGs

[07:45–18:38] The hosts dive into themes of tribalism, gatekeeping, and the escalating ideological splits in the hobby.

• The Gatekeeping Irony: Those accusing others of gatekeeping ("thought police") are often themselves engaging in exclusionary tactics.
  • Notable quote:

    "Just trying to curate someone else's friend list...very like junior high." (Venger, [04:07])

• Role of Neutral Actors: Even largely apolitical figures get dragged into conflicts due to their ubiquity in RPG social networks.
• Escalation of Accusations: Examples include being labeled "white nationalists" or "rape apologists" over minor controversies.
  • Notable quote:

    "We're at the point in 2018 where an unrepentant Hillary voter is being called a Nazi by the extreme left." (Pundit, [09:29])

• Waning Effectiveness of SJW Tactics: Neutral parties and "normies" are increasingly skeptical of online pile-ons.
  • Notable quote:

    "People...aren't buying it anymore. The normies are waking up." (Pundit, [13:41])

• Open Challenge: The hosts invite critics, including David Black, to discuss issues on air under fair debate rules.
  • Notable quote:

    "Unlike you, we believe in the spirit of debate. Man up and come talk to all three of us." (Pundit, [15:59])

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3. The Matthew Mercer/Critical Role Scandal

[18:20–31:10] The show addresses an incident where "Critical Role" host Matthew Mercer made political statements on stream and Twitter regarding Christine Blasey Ford and the Kavanaugh hearings:

• Mercer’s Statement: Mercer explicitly tells fans that if they question Ford’s testimony, "you should fuck off from Critical Role fandom and…be put into therapy."
  • Notable quote:

    "...He said, and I'm quoting here, 'you should fuck off from Critical Role fandom and that you should be put into some kind of therapy.'" (Pundit, [21:30])

• Polls and Public Reaction: Only 36% of Americans reportedly believe Blasey Ford, meaning Mercer is excluding a vast swath of potential fans.
• Critique from Hosts:
  • The hosts see this as hypocritical, exclusionary, and an example of political "gatekeeping" from the left.
  • They question the logic of alienating such a large portion of the RPG audience.
    • Notable quotes:

      "What sense does it make to alienate up to 50% of your audience?" (Venger, [25:20]) "We're the ones saying everyone can play. He's the one telling 64% of gamers to go fuck themselves." (Pundit, [26:07])

• Shift in Willingness to Object Publicly: The hosts observe more people now feeling safe to "speak up" against these ideological purity tests.
  • Notable quote:

    "There's more momentum...if we all speak up, it won't just look like a tiny group of activists have the majority." (Pundit, [30:36])

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4. Encouraging Resistance to Intellectual Conformity

[31:51–36:41] The hosts urge listeners to resist "fascist thought" and passive consumption of extreme narratives:

• Standing Up: Even those on the left are encouraged to call out excesses in their own "tribe."
  • Notable quotes:

    "You especially have a duty to do this if you identify as a Democrat or someone on the left." (Pundit, [33:49]) "If you're not shutting down the extremists on your own side, then you're going to let them take over your side." (Pundit, [35:50])

• Self-Censorship and Fear: The fear of online mobs and backlash leads to self-editing by creators.
  • Notable quote:

    "Maybe I won't [release this], maybe I'll censor myself. Maybe that's exactly what they're trying to create." (Venger, [41:12])

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5. Gatekeeping and Conventions: The Jeremy Hambly GenCon Incident

[36:41–44:01] The show discusses the physical assault and subsequent banning of Jeremy Hambly from GenCon:

• Summary of Events: Hambly was attacked at GenCon due to his controversial views, and both he and his attacker were banned from the convention.
• Disproportionate Punishment: The hosts see this as an example of bias: had the roles or identities been reversed, outcry would have been far greater.
  • Notable quote:

    "If Jeremy Hambly was actually Jermina Hambly, the feminist blogger...and someone said mean words, there would be an outcry that would just deafen the Internet." (Pundit, [42:22])

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6. Platform Politics: Roll20 and Online Play

[44:01–53:22] The hosts critique the virtual tabletop platform Roll20 for its diversity policies and handling of criticism:

• "Five White Guys" Incident: Roll20 blocked a stream because it had five white men, causing backlash.
• Ban of a Long-Time User: A paying customer was banned over a username mix-up and subsequent criticism, sparking further outrage.
  • Notable quote:

    "Nolan T. Jones and his ass hats philosophy of diversity and inclusion first..." (Venger, [44:16])

• Calls for Alternatives: Many consider leaving Roll20; the hosts discuss exploring other platforms.
• Political "Diversity" vs. Real Diversity: The hosts argue that skin color and gender are superficial measures of diversity—what matters is perspective.

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7. RPGs as Spectator Content & Critical Role

[53:22–57:19] The hosts discuss the popularity of shows like Critical Role and the nature of RPGs as performance:

• Questions about Viewer Appeal: The hosts debate whether role-playing games are truly spectator sports or if shows like Critical Role are simply staged, improv theatre.
  • Notable quote:

    "Unlike most people today, I just do not believe that RPGs are a spectator sport." (Pundit, [56:09])

• Interest in Livestreaming Their Own Games: Some curiosity about streaming their own RPG sessions, particularly as a means to teach or demonstrate.

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8. The Charles Stross & “Evil Races” Debate

[57:19–74:08] Discussion shifts to author Charles Stross's criticism of D&D for "toxic race essentialism" and the use of evil races in games:

• Stross’s Position: Claims the alignment system and concept of evil races in D&D are "deeply dubious" and racist.
  • Notable quote:

    "It takes an enormous amount of willful blindness to fail to observe the deeply dubious aspects to AD&D...contaminated with toxic race essentialist poison..." (Stross via Pundit, [59:08])

• Defense of Fantasy Tropes: The hosts argue that mythological good/evil and monster races are not allegories for human races, but narrative devices.
  • Notable quotes:

    "Evil races represent evil. They don't represent other types of human races." (Pundit, [61:33]) "Stories are the basis of our entire culture." (Pundit, [66:16])

• Danger of Relativism: The hosts warn that total rejection of good/evil dichotomies leads to cultural nihilism and moral confusion.
• Fiction and Influence: Grim Jim suggests both critics and defenders might be taking fiction too seriously, but recognizes current pressures toward ideological conformity in gaming.
  • Notable quote:

    "If you don't want to be saying that these things are that powerful...then you're giving people ammunition to attack you with." (Venger, [68:58])

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Venger on Facebook feuds:

  "Just trying to curate someone else's friend list...if you're gonna be my friend, then you can't be his friend. It's very junior high." ([04:07])

• Pundit issues an open challenge:

  "How about you don't be such a pussy and you come on here?" ([15:59])

• On "five white guys" at Roll20:

  "What the hell is that the thing that matters?" (Pundit, [44:40])

• Mercer’s exclusionary comment:

  "...You should fuck off from Critical Role fandom and be put into some kind of therapy." (Pundit quoting Mercer, [21:30])

• On conservatives in RPG spaces:

  "If Jeremy Hambly was…a feminist blogger...there would be an outcry that would just deafen the Internet." (Pundit, [42:22])

• On ideological self-censorship:

  "Maybe I'll censor myself. Maybe that's exactly what they're trying to create." (Venger, [41:12])

• Defending RPGs against allegations of racism:

  "Evil races represent evil. They don't represent other types of human races." (Pundit, [61:33])

• On personal attacks and emotional immaturity:

  "It's not about who's going to hug me...it's about how am I going to help the world around me..." (Pundit, [73:08])

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• Alpha Blue/Online Feud: [00:13–07:45]
• Gatekeeping & Tribalism: [07:45–18:38]
• Mercer/Critical Role Scandal: [18:20–31:10]
• Political Discourse & Call to Action: [31:51–36:41]
• Jeremy Hambly/GenCon Incident: [36:41–44:01]
• Roll20 & "Five White Guys": [44:01–53:22]
• RPGs as Spectator Content: [53:22–57:19]
• Charles Stross/"Evil Races" Debate: [57:19–74:08]
• Closing Remarks/Plugs: [74:08–End]

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Concluding Remarks & Tone

The episode is a forthright, sometimes confrontational critique of what the hosts see as the excesses of progressive activism and censorship in the RPG hobby. They position themselves (with varying degrees of sincerity and tongue-in-cheek humor) as defenders of free expression, open debate, and classic gaming culture—while frequently satirizing their own “inappropriateness.” Despite some controversial opinions, the show is peppered with jokes, self-deprecation, and an open call for opponents to engage in civil debate.

Final Memorable Exchange:

"We have managed to have a successful show tonight without Venger showing us his penis. I consider that a great victory."
(RPG Pundit, [77:19])
"That's a win for everybody."
(Venger, [77:29])

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Listeners interested in the state of politics in RPGs, online fandom battles, and the nature of gatekeeping in gaming will find the episode an unflinching (if partisan) snapshot of current discourse.

Transcript

[Venger Satanis]

Foreign it's inappropriate characters. And to kick us off today for a change, Avengers gonna start. Put you on the spot right away.

[Venture Satanis]

Yes. Okay, so where to start? Well, most people know that know me, know Alpha Blue, which is my sleazy sci fi rpg.

[RPG Pundit]

And

[Venture Satanis]

from the beginning, it's gotten a lot of flack, mostly from the far left, social justice warriors, those kind of activists, and most recently this guy on Facebook. I didn't know if I should name him. He's the guy behind the. The Black hack, David Black. So I guess I decided to name him. I rejoined Facebook because I was originally in Facebook for a number of years under Venture Satanis, but then they changed the rules and you have to be like, use a real name. So I went back to my real name after a number of years without Facebook because I wanted to find people, ironically, on roll 20, which eventually we'll circle back to in this show. And because it's easy to find people for D D on roll 20 or Pathfinder or whatever. But those little games, the indie games, the small press games like Alpha Blue, it's nearly impossible unless you really work at it. And I was working at it, you know, put up links lots of places, but so I rejoined Facebook and then as soon as I did, like the very next day, yeah, Mr. Black

[Venger Satanis]

is

[Venture Satanis]

commenting on his friends, like, don't friend this guy. This guy is Venture Satanis. And he's, I don't know, an. An awful person, sexist and homophobic,

[Venger Satanis]

all

[Venture Satanis]

because of this very, very small reference to the movie waiting. It's a 2005 like, stoner comedy starring Ryan Reynolds. And they had this little thing called the peanut showing game.

[Venger Satanis]

And

[Venture Satanis]

that's the kind of thing, I guess in movies today, you know, there'd be too many people protesting. But I took that and tweaked it a little bit so it was not so outrageously homophobic.

[Venger Satanis]

And.

[Venture Satanis]

But I still got flack from it. And that was enough ammunition in Mr. Black's pouch to go off on me.

[Venger Satanis]

And then.

[Venture Satanis]

And then I publicized. Was brought to my attention that he was doing that. And then I blogged about it and then I put up a bunch of links. I got flack from all different directions. Some people kept on criticizing Alpha Blue and Snadkwa the. The penis showing game.

[Venger Satanis]

And

[Venture Satanis]

some people were just mad that I brought it up in the first place or like I was airing things out. But really I think they were just trying to be negative and criticize me without taking any time to research. You know, they just want to they just wanted to crap on me or the game.

[Venger Satanis]

So.

[Venture Satanis]

But I straightened it out, you know, we did. I went through a whole discussion and it was like a 50 post thread or something like that. And eventually he took it down. So that's kind of a win. He took down his, his shitty thread about me and how no one should friend me and. And that kind of spilled over to other things. You know, pundit was mentioned, Eric 10 car was mentioned and then 10 cars tavern was blowing up. Eric was talking about it on his blog that the Thought police, that's how he talks about it. And you know, just trying to curate someone else's friend list, like, oh, you should unfriend that person. And if you're gonna be my friend, then you can't be his friend. And it's just very like junior high like. And he's tired of it and he's about as apolitical as you get. He doesn't want anything to do with politics in his gaming, in his threads, talks about. But he's getting pulled into this stuff because it's everywhere and because everybody's taking sides. Everything is factions and tribes and it's just like. I don't know if it's just the prolific proliferation law of social media, but it's like, it's like in a fever pitch. I don't know. But anyway, I just did just release something new for, for Alpha Blue not too long ago. And the Kobayashi Maroon will play on the Kobashi Maru, obviously from Star Trek. This is a little something, a little handout that you can like cut. There's two per sheet on this and I laminated it. It's a blue balls tracker for keeping track of your characters, bottles and how blue they are.

[Venger Satanis]

Other genitals are available.

[Venture Satanis]

Yes, it's good for men and women. There's a play on midi chlorians. They're called filthy chlorians. And in the future humanoid species, the filthy chlorines build up in your body unless they're flushed out and released through sexual activity. And so yeah, it goes from pink to magenta, periwinkle indigo, teal, cerulean blue and of course alpha blue at the end. Oh, and then let me show you this. Well, as you can see, I got one of those giant canvas prints, cover of Alpha Blue. My wife let me keep it, so that's pretty awesome. We were just playing the other night and I had it out. When I'm not currently actively playing, I have to turn it against the wall just in case, like the kids Come downstairs and then walk by or walk into the game room and like, want to look around.

[Venger Satanis]

So many rules.

[Venture Satanis]

Yeah, there's so many. Yeah, it. It's called being married. It can suck some of the time, but overall it's. Yeah, it's worth it.

[Venger Satanis]

It's just.

[RPG Pundit]

Hello, this is the RPG pundit, the final boss, and Internet shitlords. Oh, that guy's here. I haven't spoken until now because we've been dedicating the last 10 minutes to Avengers feud with Black here. And let me speak first on behalf of, I believe my co host Grim, and everybody watching right now, that we're very grateful that you did not show us your penis during this discourse. No, no, no, no.

[Venture Satanis]

Didn't want to see the penis. Oh, God, no.

[RPG Pundit]

Very grateful that that didn't happen. Anyways, second place, I think that's. It's very funny that your wife is letting you show that. That poster, but I'm glad, I'm glad for that.

[Venture Satanis]

Oh, shit.

[RPG Pundit]

I want to take advantage of this moment to remind all of our viewers that if you want Venger's wife to allow him to have more shows like this more often, then you have to support us on our Patreon page. Go over there, add some, some Patreon dollars, and. And we will use those to convince Venger's wife to. To let us film more than once every couple of weeks.

[Venture Satanis]

That's right. Patreon wise. My balls are currently sitting at cerulean blue.

[RPG Pundit]

There we go.

[Venture Satanis]

Pledge 10 more dollars a month. They go down to teal. Actually, no. I mean, someone actually asked how. How does, how does this work? So, like, if you have sex, like, where. What happens? I'm like, really?

[RPG Pundit]

Isn't it obvious somebody actually cared to know that? I mean, well, it's a part of the game.

[Venture Satanis]

I mean, I mean, I'm glad he asked if he had a question, but I was like, I kind of thought that was obvious. I don't even know if I put in the rules. Like I probably did just because I tried to be hobby. But you go back to. You go back to pink. I don't know if that was obvious to everyone else, but you would think so. Seriously, you would think it would be so.

[RPG Pundit]

But bring us back to the debate here about the. To the subject of what. What happened here. You said that that Black dropped all of his. His thread. But did he do that because you had rational discussion with him and reached some kind of a rational accord and he said, okay, I'm taking it down. Or did he Take it down because of some other reasons. Because I remember I saw the thread. I didn't see a thread on Facebook, but I saw the thread on G plus and at that point there were people. I don't remember if Black himself did it, but there are people in his corner. So to say that were, you know, calling you a white nationalist or something like that. Right. We have now gotten to the point in 2018 where an unrepentant, shameless Hillary voter is being called a Nazi by the extreme left. Right.

[Venture Satanis]

I have no shame.

[RPG Pundit]

Well, given that you just show the things you've just shown us that are your products for sale, you clearly do not have any shame. So like, you know, and you were talking about 10 car and you're right that Tenkar is fairly apolitical. But I know a guy who's even more apolitical who's Clash Boley, who is his. He was my first ever publisher, but he's a completely non political guy, never posts about politics and he's, he also happens to be the owner and moderator of the role playing Games community on G Plus, which is the biggest one about general RPGs, right. I think only the, the, the DND community is bigger there. But he threatened to shut down that whole group because of the, the stuff that was posted on, on that, on those threads. You know, the, where there was where Black had been coming on, his cronies had been coming out and, and calling us all Nazis and talking about all this SJW using you of being a rape apologist and whatever else, you know, so, so you know, when you've got a guy like Clash who's like pretty much the definition of the kind of the, the, the non partisan, unaffiliated, you know, you never know how he votes sort of guy, right? Saying well, I'm just gonna burn the whole house down if you guys don't shut the up.

[Venture Satanis]

Yeah, let me, let me answer your question.

[RPG Pundit]

Okay.

[Venture Satanis]

I think the real reason he took that stuff down is because there were enough neutral parties that saw at the very least the, there was a generous amount of misinformation all the, you know, the slander and libelous things that he wrote about me. Like sure, one or two little things were true, but he twisted so much and he piled on so many fabricated things that it just looked fishy to everybody who wasn't a fully on board, dyed in the wool sjw. And when he only had like, like the barest few holdouts that were defending him and attacking me, he realized, I think that he opened up a can of worms that was too big for him to, to chew on. And he just was like, decided to cut his losses. And it wasn't like we didn't come to terms and like, I won. In his mind, he just kind of decided to stop fighting and let it go away, I guess turned it around and used it for my own publicity because.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah, yeah, of course. But I think that's interesting because it shows that. I think that there's been a kind of change in how things are going in these sorts of situations when they arise. Because I think a year or two ago there would have been a lot of people who would have ended up just believing all the lies that Black was telling about you. Right. And now there's a whole bunch of people, they've seen through this kind of the SJW bullshit so many times that now they. They're just not buying it. And we've seen that happen in a lot of the recent controversies, including I think at least one or two of the other ones we're going to be talking about. Right. So that it seems to me like people like, not us, but the normies are getting more woke to the fact that SJWs always lie. Right. And they're just not against them.

[Venger Satanis]

The scary thing, I think is that Black's actually at the more reasonable end of all of this. He was willing to discuss, willing to talk. He didn't just block everyone out of hand. I got into a discussion with him if I still want to. He's willing to come on my channel for a discussion about what's going on, what has gone on. And I, I'd still want to do that even though it's rather minor and old news, because I want to understand where he's coming from, why he thinks it's acceptable to run around and tell everyone to hate somebody and not to follow them. I don't understand how, how that is acceptable behavior just because you referenced an old stoner movie. So hopefully he'll still be up for that. I mean, some of the things where.

[RPG Pundit]

On your channel.

[Venger Satanis]

On my channel, yeah.

[RPG Pundit]

Not to come here to inappropriate characters, huh?

[Venture Satanis]

No, no.

[Venger Satanis]

But yeah, yeah, he was at least willing to talk. I don't know whether he's. He'll still be willing to do that, but some of the things that he seemed upset about was that obviously this reference to this old stoner movie, which makes no sense to me, but also the kind of self promotion you were doing. Venture. Yeah, it's. It's hard enough to get people to look at your games if you're gonna be disallowed or outcast for posting about them places. It just seems a bit silly to me, but that seemed to be part of what upset him.

[RPG Pundit]

I'm gonna challenge Black right now, you piece of shit. How about you don't be such a pussy and you come on here to inappropriate characters and talk it out with us? Because unlike you, we believe in the spirit of debate. So you can feel free to come on here. I don't know what you'd have to be scared of. Talk it out with me and Venture too. I know that Grim is a meek and mild British fellow. And so you think you're going to push him around, you probably won't because he's actually quite sharp in debate. So you're going to be surprised. But just man up and come talk to all three of us.

[Venger Satanis]

Well, I'll suggest it to him, but we'll, we'll see.

[Venture Satanis]

Or anyone, you know, anyone that's has a huge problem with two or three of us and you really think you have something to say and want to discuss it, we'll be open, right? We'll be open to at least hearing that person out.

[Venger Satanis]

I mean, he might be worried about being outnumbered if you came on here, but, but it's, it's just a weird. This tribalism and this willingness to use practically any measures to exclude someone from gaming. And that I think goes to a lot of the other things that we're talking about.

[RPG Pundit]

All right, listen. If Black was afraid of being outnumbered, we could set up rules or him or any other. If you're somebody, one of these leftists, you want to come and talk about these topics and present a different view than ours, we are, we will be glad to set up certain rules we can have. Like, you know, Grim, who is by, you know, we all agree is the most moderate of us, will be the one who can be, can be a kind of moderator. We can set time limits for speaking and not interrupting each other. So you'd have your chance to have your say. You have to give us our chance to have our say. Grim would be the timekeeper and he, he'd be the one that would call foul if any of us broke the rules. So we can work, we can talk about that. You don't have to worry that we're going to gang up on you. You just have to worry that we're going to kick your ass rhetorically.

[Venture Satanis]

And anytime that the pundit actually comes up with a good point, I will

[RPG Pundit]

show my penis no, no, no, we want them to come here. We don't want to scare them away.

[Venture Satanis]

Possibly get us kicked off of YouTube.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah, I would really hope that. I don't think you quite understand how this, this whole thing works here.

[Venger Satanis]

But, but yeah, this tribalism and keeping people out. I mean there was. What's his name? Mercer, Is it Matthew Mercer? Matthew Mercer, yeah. Now he did something recently, didn't he? You know most about this, I think. Pundit. Do you want to sketch out the situation?

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah, of course.

[Venture Satanis]

Just a sec.

[RPG Pundit]

1. I'm, I'm writing here. Our audience is asking me about the type of tobacco that I enjoy. So I, I thought I'd share this. So I love several different kinds of blends, but I don't like the sweet kind. Somebody on the, on the comments talked about he likes a cherry and chocolate or cherry and vanilla or something like that. And I do not all my tobaccos. Every tobacco that I smoke tastes like tobacco. Right, so there's the Virginia Peru, English blends. Well, I haven't done Cashewsh in quite a long time. There's a time and place for everything and it's called University. Right. That was, that was pretty much a smoke filled haze and it wasn't tobacco smoke. But then kind of after that, you know, you get to a point where especially if you get deep into stuff like meditation, you just kind of outgrow it. But okay, let's get to talking about Matthew Mercer and the latest little scandal there. He's the guy that is the, you know, showrunner, host, I don't know how to put it, of the reality TV show called Critical Role, which is a DND themed reality TV show with like actors in it that are pretending to be really excited about playing a role playing game that people often confuse for people actually playing a role playing game. But in any case, Mercer, in this latest episode came out this week, apparently at a certain point. I, I believe it was at the start, might have been right at the end, but I think it was right at the start. He said something like how he was grateful to Catherine Ford and to all other heroic women that have come forward to reveal sexual assault and the misconduct of men or something like that. Right. And some of the people, even as the show was airing on the chat there, that they had took umbrage. Some of them took umbrage at the fact that he's, you know, that he, that he, at the claim that Ford is not just, you know, a political actor that has been, that it's, that has an intense motivation and that her claims are incredibly dubious, which is true. But some other people who were not so much didn't see that as the problem as they saw that Mercer was politicizing this show. Right. That he made this big, very partisan political statement. Right. And then he, you know, and that this brings in politics into what is supposed to be a D and D themed show about people playing D and D. And after that, Mercer in the, in Twitter made a post where he said, anyone who doesn't, you know, unquestioningly believe Ford's testimony about, you know, this supposed sexual assault that happened 35 years ago that nobody at a party, that nobody but her remembers ever happening, and with no evidence at all, if you don't unquestioningly believe Ford's testimony, then you're some kind of a terrible person. He said, and I'm quoting here, you should fuck off from critical role fandom and that you should be put into some kind of therapy. Right? So he implied that anyone, anyone who does not agree with this incredibly partisan Democrat point of view, that, you know, that this woman who has miraculously come forward at the last minute to try to stop a Trump appointed Supreme Court judge, that she's telling the unquestionable truth. If you question in the slightest you are mentally ill. This is something that the Soviets used to do, you know, to put people, to put dissenters into mental hospitals. Right. This is what the guy has been, has been promoting here. Right. And just to give you an idea, the latest poll that was done by npr, you know, National Public Radio. So if anything, this poll is skewed towards the left says that about 36% of Americans are sure of Ford's testimony. Right. That they believe Ford. Which means, it doesn't mean that 64% believe Kavanaugh or disbelieve the whole thing.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

But it means that 64% of Americans do not unquestioningly believe Ford's statement. Right. And, and he's so he's basically saying to these people, fuck off. You don't belong in D and D, you belong in a mental hospital.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

Which shows you where we've gotten to with these people.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah, I mean, I've noticed that. Just merely asserting that, you know, people have a, have a right to a presumption of innocence or, you know, you can't really convict or it's not even a trial, but you can't really come down against someone without evidence. Just that point of view is sufficient. I don't know whether he did what, what they're saying or not. I don't know if she's telling the truth. I don't know if he's telling the truth. Nobody does. The only way you can establish that is with evidence. And that's hard enough with something that's just happened, you know, similar to this, the allegations yesterday, let alone 35 years ago. So nobody knows. There's very little chance of there being any evidence to show that this did happen. And yet they're demanding everybody just blindly go along with it.

[RPG Pundit]

I don't think they're demanding that he be impeached and in his current position as a judge. So they basically want the man's career destroyed. And they're demanding that. No, that everybody pretend that there isn't any possible motive apart from this, you know, that. That this sudden revelation at the last minute in order to delay the appointment of the judge until after the midterms. Right. That this isn't questionable in any way. And that the woman who is a Democrat donor and a Democrat activist who came forward with this sudden allegation that nobody can corroborate, not even the place where it happened can be corroborated, that this isn't in any way suspect. Because you're right, we have no evidence of whether it happened or not. But we certainly. If you want to look at motive for why this particular allegation could be false, there is a shitload of motive there. Right. Which is mainly Trump derangement syndrome and wanting to stop a Trump appointment to the Supreme Court until after the midterms, where the Democrats have this hope. I think it's a vain hope, but they have a hope of winning the Senate. And then after that, they would block all Trump court nominations for the next two years. Right.

[Venture Satanis]

That's.

[Venger Satanis]

I mean, they're always going on about how important it is to reach out to minority groups and so on. There's all this untapped potential. But what sense does it make to alienate up to 50% of your audience in such a way by demanding that they adhere to the same politics as you? I mean, I'm very left wing. Sometimes that point of view comes out in my games or whatever. But they're games. That's. That's separate. I don't. I don't require absolute adherence to an ideological orthodoxy. Don't have some kind of shit test before you can play my games. You can disagree with me and play my games. You can play them in ways I never intended. What. I don't see what this has to do with anything.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah, absolutely. I think all of us are saying, all of us three, I mean, are saying that we want everyone to play RPGs, right? I want everyone to play Dungeons and Dragons. But here's Mercer, this piece of shit that, that is telling, you know, possibly up to 64% of gamers to go fuck themselves and to not play anymore and to be kept out. Who was just weeks ago, you know, he, he's, he proudly said that he's muted me. So but weeks ago he responded to D and D gate by saying, oh, these are just a bunch of gatekeepers. Well, you know, we're the ones saying we're the, that anyone can play. He's the one telling at least half the, the country you shouldn't be playing D and D, you should be in a mental asylum, you know.

[Venture Satanis]

Well, that poll that you referenced, I'm sure the gaming, the general gaming public is probably more than, more than 50, 50%, right. What would you say? Six, somewhere between 60 and 70% are left leaning in the game industry hobby.

[Venger Satanis]

In Europe it skews even more left. I think my experience with American gamers has tended to be that they're more right wing than European gamers. But then America is more right wing than Europe.

[RPG Pundit]

In the US it's very hard to see say because certainly if you look at the people that are writing RPGs, okay, sure, the RPG designers who are also, but who are also people that are kind of, you know, artistically inclined and they're working and stuff and a lot of them are trying to make a living off their RPGs to some extent. And, and they're very active in the forums. Yeah, you can say that certainly. Well, more than 50% of them skew towards the left.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

But that's because there is a concerted effort of a left wing takeover. The humanities and the RPGs include that.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

And I would certainly agree that probably more than half of critical role fans skew towards the left because it's, you know, they've gone out of their way to appeal to that market. They're not a market that you're going to watch if you're a military gamer. You know, that's, that's in Afghanistan or that has come back from Afghanistan. That's not their audience. Their audience is for pathetic millennial 30 somethings or 20 somethings who are, you know, living off a trust fund or working at a dead end job while they're talking about their gender. Right. But, but I think that there's this large in terms of people who actually play there's a large number of people who actually play who are, you know, not those sorts of people. They're not, you know, part of the left wing freakazoids from the Portland, Seattle, San Francisco triangle. Right. And probably, if you looked at the average of all gamers, you would probably find that in the United States and probably in every other country, the political affiliation of the average gamer would be about the same percentages as anyone else in the general population. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some way to pull regular gamers throughout the country that you'd get exactly the same split of political affiliation as you would among any other basic population.

[Venture Satanis]

Well, I would think that he, he thinks that he's in the majority and so he thinks he's totally safe and protected making that, those kind of statements, those kind of blanket statements like, well, if you don't believe women automatically, then you're just, you know, tool or an ass hat or whatever. And so he's not, he's not prepared to, to die on that hill. I don't think he thinks it's any kind of risk at all. I think it's the safe bet bubble.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah.

[Venture Satanis]

And then on top of that, you know, he gets the digital backpacks and you know, he gets all the other people that's, you know, are in the same think tank with him, the same echo chamber to agree and to, you know, thumbs up and like, and, and

[RPG Pundit]

there, there was a ton of that, a ton of that from Critical Role fans and other people in gaming who probably never watched Critical Role. But we're, we're supporting Mercer's leftist virtue signaling.

[Venture Satanis]

But how many people were against him? Like, guys.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah, that's what surprised me. What surprised me is how many people were critical of him and dared to publicly be critical of him. Because I think if he said the same thing nine months ago or a year ago, then you would have had the same number of people who felt critical about it, who would have didn't like what he said but wouldn't have dared to speak up. And I think that that's something that I see slowly changing, that there's, there's more momentum. There's times now when, when I see some, some, you know, SJW say something stupid and I'm going, you know, because someone said it on the Internet, I have to go and correct them. Right. So I go over there and I'm surprised to see like, you know, a whole bunch of other guys who have already, you know, pointed out how stupid it was and that didn't used to happen. It used to be that they had, you know, there were a very few of us who dared to speak, and then a bunch of people who would send us private messages saying, you know, I really agree with you, but I can't say that. Right? And I think now there's more people are saying, yeah, okay, maybe we can say that. Maybe if we all say that, then, you know, that's actually going to change something, because it's not going to look like this tiny group of SJW activists have way more power and influence and have the majority behind them like it appears when the rest of us shut up.

[Venture Satanis]

You know, I would recommend that the people that watch this show, you know, take a little bit of time and a little bit of their own testicular fortitude and every once in a while post something, just say, like, nope, or, you know, that's not accurate, or I don't believe that, or, you know, just some sort of mild defense against the steamroller of, you know, fascist thought that dictates how people should think, what they should believe in, you know, who they should be the friends with. Just stand up. Just. A lot of people are passive and a lot of people don't want to get involved. I totally understand that. But every once in a while, you just gotta say, to hell with it, and you gotta stand up and you gotta be like, no, no.

[Venger Satanis]

And you don't have.

[Venture Satanis]

Not going to agree with that. I'm not going to just blindly, you know, click onto some other feed or some other person talking or some other blog post, you know, I'm gonna say that's.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah. And you don't have to be super confrontational or whatever. You can just say your piece and then mute the thread or whatever.

[Venture Satanis]

Other people will come to your defense. And you should. You're not alone. And. I encourage everybody, all of our listeners and everybody out there that hears this to every once in a while, if not all the time, do that. It needs to happen, you know, especially

[RPG Pundit]

having to do this.

[Venture Satanis]

And if you keep crossing it, you're gonna get some resistance.

[RPG Pundit]

You especially have a duty to do this if you identify as a Democrat or somebody on the left, okay? Because. Because these people are claiming to speak for the entire left wing, all right? And. And here we have three people in this show, three hosts of which only one of them has. Has given up and abandoned the left completely, which is me.

[Venger Satanis]

Right?

[RPG Pundit]

And the other two have hope. Give these people hope. They're like. These are like, you know, the poster childs in the Somalian wars or Something like that, right? Like bring back hope to Venture and Grimm. Let them other people on the left that still actually don't believe the SJW bullshit. Right?

[Venger Satanis]

Who still adheres to actual left wing values. That would be nice.

[RPG Pundit]

I mean, you wear a MAGA hat, you're going to speak up, there's no question. But the people we really need speaking up now are moderates. Right? But if you really, if you don't, don't think, okay? Just because these guys are part of my tribe or my team means that I should just shut up and let them say these extreme and radical things. Because believe me, when somebody on my team says something that is extreme and radical about antisemitism or that they're anti minority, they speak out. They say something racist. I'm going to call them out on that. I've called out a bunch of anti Semites all over the Internet. I've called out a bunch of people who said, no, we've got to stand. We can't criticize people that are on the alt right because we've got to unite the right now. No, that's bullshit. These guys are fucking Nazis.

[Venger Satanis]

Right?

[RPG Pundit]

You call them out and we do that with our extremists. You have to do that with your extremists. When you see somebody on Twitter or on G or on Facebook who has, you know, I don't know, a pussy hat icon or whatever that says, oh, kill all white people, you need to say something because those people are just as disgusting as the people who, you know, support, you know, Richard Spencer.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

And if you're not, if you're not shutting down the extremists on your own side, then you're going to let them take over your side.

[Venture Satanis]

That's right. The experience will eventually take over because they're the loudest and the most active and they cause the most fear in people listening. The, the people don't want to get involved, they don't want to fight back because the, you know, favorite reprisal or being shouted down or being vilified or slandered or whatever. So yeah, those, those extremists will eventually take over. If just like the weeds, if you don't do anything about the small weeds that are coming up in your yard, then eventually their weeds will take over and it'll kill your grass and then you'll just have whole yard full of weeds and you're.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah, I guess our theme tonight is kind of gatekeeping and it's ironic because it's coming from people who've Accused people like Pundit of, of gatekeeping. And yet they're explicitly saying, if you don't have the same politics as me, if you don't have the same taste as me, if you don't interpret the game in the same way as me, then you're not allowed. And I think the most egregious and powerful example of that is what happened with Jeremy Hambly at gencon. You know, he was attacked by someone over his views outside of gencon, but during, but during the event. And now that's continued to roll on and now he's been banned. Jeremy, the victim of the attack, has been banned from attending gencon than any other conventions held by that organization. So is his attacker. But still, it's like I said, I

[RPG Pundit]

did, I did a video about this recently on my channel and you can bet any amount of money that within a year or two, because both of them were suspended indefinitely, right? Yeah, two years. If not next year. Matt Loader, that piece of shit, right, is going to walk into gencon and nobody's going to stop him. Right. Whereas Hambly will be banned forever or until Gen Con goes broke because of how woke they are, you know.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah, but that's, that's, that's another example of gatekeeping. I mean, I don't agree with Hambley's negative views to the extent that he expressed them about cosplayers and so on. I like sexy women, what can I say? But yeah, but he's, he's conservative. But so, but so what? He shouldn't be banned and certainly not off the back of being attacked.

[Venture Satanis]

He. No, I, for the most part. I started listening to Jeremy Hampley just before Gen Con and I liked a lot of what he said. Every once in a while he says something that I think is completely stupid or goes too far. Like criticizing kind of what Grim was saying. He's criticizing women on Twitch for body painting and how that was stupid and should be against their terms of service and because it's too lewd or dirty or sexy or something. And Twitch should be, I don't know, above that. That just seems stupid. And like, I believe, like women should be, you know, on their board doing whatever they want to do and, you know, I'm not going to prevent that. Well, Venja's gonna hold up, you know, a black bar across their movie because, I don't know, because gaming and breasts is just too awesome on its own. Like combined and to separate them will save the universe somehow. I don't know.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah.

[Venture Satanis]

Anyway, so, yeah, Jeremy Hambly, you know, he says some dumb things, occasionally goes too far. I compared him kind of to Larry Flint. I think that's his name from Hustler. I've never seen the movie. You know what I want is I want that guy. I want Larry Flint and I want Hustler.

[RPG Pundit]

Larry Flint of role playing games?

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah.

[Venture Satanis]

Who? Wait, me?

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah. I've always thought he was the Larry Flint of RPGs.

[Venture Satanis]

There you go.

[RPG Pundit]

I'll take it.

[Venture Satanis]

So I want. Sure. Vendor Satan is too. I want those people to be protected so that the little guy who isn't as extreme or isn't as obscene or sleazy or pushes buttons or is on the outside cutting edge of, you know, politics or culture or whatever, those guys don't have anything to worry about. You know, they're not constantly looking over the shoulder, wondering, someone going to boycott the game? You know, is someone going to shut them down? Is there going to be a Twitter explosion of, you know, SJWs that's gonna force them to give up or go bankrupt or something like that? You know, if it's okay for us to. On the kind of the extreme edge, you know, if we're okay and nobody's gonna hassle us, then everybody else can kind of relax and not be too bothered, not be paranoid about, you know, what's going to come.

[RPG Pundit]

They don't have to second guess, like,

[Venture Satanis]

oh, this is kind of racy. Should I put this in my game? I don't want a whole outrage mob to like, yeah, so maybe I won't. Maybe I'll censor myself.

[RPG Pundit]

Maybe that's exactly what they're trying to create.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

They're trying to create a climate of fear that will stop people from. From mesa. There's the censorship of them saying, well, let's try to shut down Grimm's, you know, DTRPG page. But then there's the censorship beyond that of let's. That will make grim an example that will make other people afraid of writing anything that we don't agree with. Right. And whatever you want to say about Hambly. Right? Because sure, sometimes he said stuff I don't agree with, sometimes he says a lot of stuff I do agree with. Right. But he has. He's never said anything, anything at all that in my. To my knowledge, maybe there's stuff I haven't seen that he said, but to my knowledge, I've never seen him say anything that makes him worthy of censorship. And he certainly never said anything again, to my knowledge, that made him worthy of being attacked by an assailant he didn't even know, you know, a brutal attack, someone shouting, I'm going to fucking kill you. I'm going to fucking kill you. Right in the middle of a bar.

[Venture Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

So definitely isn't worthy of Gen Con then punishing the person who was attacked. It's like I said in my video, if Jeremy Hambly was actually Jermina Hambly, the feminist blogger, you know, and somebody had come up to her and had just said some mean words, right, then the guy who said the mean words would be banned for life. And if Gen Con had banned Jermina Hambly, feminist blogger for life at the same time, there would be an outcry that would just, you know, deafen the Internet.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

Of people that would be calling for the heads of everybody involved in Gen Con for having punished the victim of an assault. Right. A verbal assault. Right. Whereas this guy suffers a physical assault and they ban him. And you have SJWs all over the place cheering this as though this is great and good. And the message that they've sent by doing this in Gen Con is from now on, if you want someone to never be able to go to Gen Con again, all you have to do is assault them and then physically attack them. Gen Con will reward you by promoting your stuff during the, that, that year. Then they'll give you a light suspension and then you'll be back. You know, that's, that's the message here. Nobody in Gen Con who isn't antifa is safe now because if you disagree with any amount of virtue signaling, then you can be physically assaulted in Gen Con.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah. So they'll come after you on social media and try to make people not, not befriend you and we'll talk smack about you. They'll get you barred from conventions. So yeah, we've got that covered. Then there's the new gaming platforms like Roll20. There's issues there as well.

[Venture Satanis]

Don't be white or male. Yeah. If you're not, if you're white and male, you're probably not safe at Gen Con and you're not wanted as a customer on roll 20. I guess.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah.

[Venture Satanis]

Based on Nolan T. Jones and his ass hats philosophy of diversity and inclusion first and actually cating to catering to you, your, your real customers and your base second or third or not at all. Yeah.

[Venger Satanis]

So what, what happened there was, there was a YouTube.

[RPG Pundit]

They were trying to do a, I guess a twitch or whatever, a roll 20 show with five of the biggest names in that sort of genre and the people at Roll20 told them we don't want another show with five white guys. So that's the thing that matters. How the hell is that the thing that matters? Because what's the point? It's stupid from a point of view of them as a business, right? It's get woke, go broke in action. But it's also just idiotic from the point of view of the hobby, right? Because it doesn't matter what, you know, whether it's white or not or guys or not or anything else. There's no special point in producing a diversity of colors or diversity of genders, Right. What you want is a diversity of perspectives maybe, right? We're three different white guys here, but we have some serious differences in our perspectives, right? And, and you know, you, one of us could have been Asian or something. I mean, I'm Latino, so there's, there's that, right? But it's, but my Latino ness has. Adds nothing to this show, right? Nor would anybody's Latino ness in any RPG live stream show add anything to that show, right? My, my life, my perspective, my ideas, my experiences might change things, but none of those have anything to do with my ethnic background or the color of my skin. You know,

[Venture Satanis]

can you make that, that game mechanic more Latino?

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah, yeah. Like how the hell do you do that? We need that illustration without ridiculous ethnic pandering, which is what they want, right?

[Venger Satanis]

You're already doing it wrong. You have to call it Latinx. No.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah. Debate with one idiot that, you know, like there is nobody in the normal Latino speaking, you know, the normal Latino world, the normal Spanish speaking world that likes to use Latin X. Right? That's something that SJ, white, white SJWs use and a handful of extremely communist, you know, Latino upper middle class SJWs use. Right? And everyone else laughs at that, right? Because not, not just laughs, but takes umbrage at that because it's an example of cultural appropriation, right? It's an, it's a culture. No, cultural imperialism, I would say, right? Because they're attacking the Spanish language and trying to impose an Anglo style gender neutrality that is not part of our linguistic history, right? In Spanish, as in most Romance languages, you know, words are gendered and they're trying to degender that out of some kind of a ridiculous agenda that has, that does not come out of our culture and has nothing to do with us. But there's these idiots demanding it, right? And it's never going to happen because it's such a fundamental language change that is being demanded that it could only happen maybe by aggressive force. Right. Maybe in Cuba. It could happen. It could happen anywhere else. I think even Cuban Communists are not that stupid. They're not as retarded as these people who think that it makes a difference to use that word, you know, or

[Venger Satanis]

they could all learn Finnish, which doesn't have gender pronouns. So, yeah, that's another possibility.

[Venture Satanis]

All this. So, yeah, the five white guys. So if the people that are listening to this that don't know about that, there's a bunch of videos that just came out about it. I learned it first from Jeremy Hambley's video, but then I also saw, I think Dawn Forged Cast and then another. Another one of those same five white guys. They're talking about it. And this is kind of me too, for that because the whole thing was kind of buried because it happened in 2017 and now it's come out again because that Nolan T. Jones guy is in trouble for banning. This critic of Roll20 was just putting out suggestions like how to make their platform better or how to change their app, so it worked in unison with whatever. And so, yeah, he was banned because his username was sort of similar to a different username from, like, four years ago. Yeah, four years ago or something like that. And the guy was, you know, went to the mods like, hey, I think you banned me unfairly. I've been paying customer for five years. And they didn't do anything about it. They just, like, kept him banned. And so then he was like, hey, what gives? This is unfair and not cool. And, you know, I've been a loyal customer. You know, if you don't do something about this, I'm going to tell people, you know, basically what roll 20 is doing and kind of make a fuss. And then they got all mad and Nolan T. Jones, what went on, went on Reddit and, like, did this rant that is like the second most downvoted thing on. On Reddit, saying how if. If this guy was allowed into roll 20 again, he would just be a bad influence or something, or he wouldn't work, work well with others or, you know, it's just a disturber and we don't need that type around us. And so now, I mean, now he's active again, I think. Or, I mean, I don't know. I don't know what happened now. I know a lot of people are

[RPG Pundit]

like, well, Rule 20, Rule 20, but

[Venture Satanis]

I don't know if this guy's reinstated.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah. But the company did try to in some way roll back on what they had said, right? Because. And I think they did that because apparently a shitload of people must have unsubscribed. Not just because of the Reddit thing, but I'm betting, like, they wouldn't have done that unless a whole bunch of people. Because it's a paying platform, right, you have to pay to be on there, that a bunch of people cancel their subscriptions. And they're panicking now because they're looking at the actual literal cost, the going broke of getting woke. Right.

[Venture Satanis]

There's a free version. I run games on roll 20 every once in a while, sometimes as much as once a week. And there's definitely a free version.

[Venger Satanis]

You can.

[Venture Satanis]

That's why I do. Because I don't need any bells and whistles. I don't need a little thing that says pro. And I think you can charge money. I don't do that either. So there are different features. If you pay money that a lot of people use and there's the marketplace, you can buy tokens or virtual whatever. I don't use that. But, yeah, a lot of people pay money. I mean, that's how the site makes money, how it's, that's why it runs. And yeah, people are going away in DRO in droves because, yeah, they want to be part of that. That's not only the. Yeah, the guy that was banned unfairly, but then the five white guys who need not apply because they're too male and too white. And that's not, that's not good enough for Rule 20.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah, I, I don't play online myself, so this is, this is not something that's part of my, my lexicon really. But, but I know that there have been people promoting alternative platforms out there that are. That, that they think are good alternatives to Rule 20 because of, you know, because of this.

[Venture Satanis]

Yeah, if I was a paying member, I would cancel my subscription because I don't want to give money to a company like that. But since I'm using it for free, I'll have to decide if I want to keep using it for free every once in a while or if I want to bite the bullet and probably take a couple hours to learn to download and learn something new. I use the bare minimum. I just use text and a couple, couple keys that, like, roll dice for me. So probably wouldn't take much to go to Fantasy Grounds or someplace like that. So I might do that. Especially. A lot of people leave Rule 20, then, like, why bother? Because half the reason is there's a lot of people on There already.

[Venger Satanis]

I'm looking for recommendations too, because I want to start running some, some games online because I only ever get to meet up with my tabletop group about every month and a half and that's not enough. So if anyone out there has any recommendations for good sites to use and so, or do let us know and maybe we'll check them out and do a review or something.

[Venture Satanis]

I have a question. Yes, I have a question for our audience real quick. If anybody is interested in some episode in the near future, you know, probably before 2019, if anyone is interested in watching the three of us, because we have the setup right here, you know, watching us role play.

[Venger Satanis]

If we can be pundit into submission,

[Venture Satanis]

I will make, I will make pundit roll dice in. Regardless of his character, his character's backstory, his race, his class, what weapon he's carrying, whether his character has back earlier

[RPG Pundit]

that day, whatever the result is, if

[Venture Satanis]

he rolls a three, then, you know, he, he chokes on a gummy bear and that's it, he dies. Who doesn't want to see that?

[RPG Pundit]

You know, I made a whole game, a parody game called Gnome Murdered that was, that was making fun of those kinds of mechanics, right? The kind of mechanics that you take seriously.

[Venture Satanis]

They're good mechanics. They're old school mechanics. Old school, no, they're not.

[RPG Pundit]

But they're really much more connected to the, to the mechanics of the Forge, you know, and stuff like that. But, but anyway, because yeah, no, Murder was originally a parody of Forge games. But I don't know if I'd. If I'd be too keen on doing a live stream role playing. I just, I just for me, the RPG experience is something that has to happen in person, right? It's part of the, the magic of it. And I've never had an online role playing experience that I've. That I felt was adequate as a substitute for that.

[Venture Satanis]

Apparently there's like a hundred thousand people that watch or did watch Critical Role that would beg to differ.

[RPG Pundit]

Critical Role isn't even a real. Like, if you watch, if you watch these streams of people playing actual role playing games, like just a regular gaming group and they're filming their game, those things get like 200 views, right? All the shows that get 100,000 views are shows that have professional actors with sets and they're not really playing so much as doing this kind of improv theater about playing, which is very different, right? Even like huge names like Sargon of Akkad, right, who is a big time cultural libertarian YouTuber who routinely gets Thousands and thousands of views in his videos, right. When he, he does a live stream of him and his buddies playing D and D and that those routinely get less hits than anything else he does.

[Venger Satanis]

Right?

[RPG Pundit]

Because it's just not, you know, like, unlike most people today, I, I just do not believe that RPGs are a spectator sport.

[Venture Satanis]

But think of, think of all the things we could teach people and all this. The knowledge they could learn from watching three professionals at work.

[RPG Pundit]

You know, I think that if I was ever going to do something like this, what I would probably do is film my Dungeon Crawl Classics game for three reasons versus the only game I run in English. And second, it's a game that, you know, that is really incredibly funny, right? So it might just capture enough attention for people because like it's, I've never been in a game. You know, in every game that, that I run, people, you know, we have moments which, where we're laughing, right? But in that game it's just like it's a comedy show from start to finish. Five hours of us, you know, laughing our asses off at everything that's happening. Right. And for the third reason is that it's so politically incorrect that heads would explode. Right. Like, I think that the reaction would be just astounding.

[Venger Satanis]

Shall we finish up by talking about something Charles Stross said on Twitter? I know Twitter is Twitter, but shall I cover it?

[RPG Pundit]

Well, yeah, if you want to. I mean, you're the one. I was gonna kind of read it in a funny voice, you know, like.

[Venger Satanis]

Okay, well I'll, I'll prompt you to read it out in a sec. Okay. So Charles Stross, he's a fairly famous science fiction.

[Venture Satanis]

I probably have to head out. Okay, I'll let you take her out.

[RPG Pundit]

Well, remind everyone if you want venture to get to stay later in the future, you need to support us on Patreon. So wife will allow us to stay for more than an hour

[Venger Satanis]

later.

[Venture Satanis]

Pledge your support to our Patreon because otherwise I'm gonna have to go to bed at 7:30 and nobody's gonna watch anything then.

[Venger Satanis]

Have a good show later. So Charles Stross is a fairly famous successful science fiction, fantasy, Lovecraftian, horror sort of writer. He was involved in the role playing industry quite a lot in the 70s and 80s. He wrote some stuff for AD&D. He wrote some stuff in White Dwarf magazine. Some of his creatures, I think Githyanki is probably or Slaad, are probably the most famous ones that he was involved in which were later published in the Fiend Folio. So you know, he's been involved in gaming and should hypothetically know his way around it all. But yeah, he was in some conversations earlier on the, on the 29th about, about gaming pundit. If you want to just read out the, read out the tweet if you found it.

[RPG Pundit]

Right, so he did this tweet. Yeah, but this was all brought to my attention by, by Grim Jim here. But. So there was this discussion going on about Warhammer 40K or something like that and, and some guy said something about how war gamers in general looking amongst other people in the community ought to be aware of the consequences of fascism, but sometimes the connection between gaming and reality seems to be weak. And then Charlie Strauss responded by saying it takes an enormous amount of willful blindness to fail to observe the deeply dubious aspects to AD&D. The alignment system, evil races, half breeds, the wellspring of high fantasy, were contaminated with toxic race essentialist poison even before Lord of the Rings. And I mean, that's just such unbelievable bullshit from this piece of shit half breed writer. You know, like, he's just like, he's like, what the hell is he doing? You know, like, what, what, what is that? You know, like this is a guy, you're right. He, when he was a teenager or whatever, he did, he did the, he invented the, the Gith, Yankee, which I always thought were a freaking stupid race or just a mess of whatever. And it shows that even back then he didn't really understand the connection between RPGs and myth, mythology, archetype, that sort of thing. Right. Like, I know there's a lot of people that like the Gif, but I've never dug them. But the main thing is that you look at the classic monsters of D and D and they all tie into some very kind of archetypal concepts of our fears and of our different fundamental relation to the supernatural world, so to say, not in a sense of, you know, like literal supernatural, but in the sense of, you know, the, the. The world of our, of our, of our inner fantasies. Right? And then the Gith are just this big mishmash of garbage that just like, you know, they really are a kind of a postmodernist creature because they're not connected to anything except something this guy invented in his head, right? So it doesn't surprise me that he doesn't understand the point of evil race. Evil races are not toxic race essentialist poison. Evil races represent evil. They don't represent other types of human races.

[Venger Satanis]

Right?

[RPG Pundit]

And the alignment system, you know, the alignment system is something that is. That some people might use more or less. I've always found the alignment system to be something that I try to make more important in my games than it is in basic D and D concepts. But it's something, because what you're doing in an rpg, and especially in a fantasy rpg in a game like Dungeons and Dragons, is recreating not literature, but a mythological conception of a struggle between good versus evil. We've gotten to the point now where people are teaching their kids from the start, oh, there's no such thing as evil. And that's an incredibly dangerous thing to do, right? Because we need to. Because if you teach that there's no such thing as evil, there's also no such thing as good, right? There's just. There's just everybody doing. Doing stupid shit, right?

[Venture Satanis]

And.

[RPG Pundit]

And that. And. And while it's true that the world is much more complex than good versus evil, we need to start with this kind of Platonic ideal of good versus evil or law versus chaos for us to bring order into our world and for us to understand. Yes, in real life, in real life, not in RPGs, there. There's all of these degrees of complexity to everything everyone does, right? And there's nobody who's entirely good, and there's probably nobody, except maybe some psychopaths who are entirely evil. Right?

[Venger Satanis]

But it can be fun to play with shades of gray. And I'm sure as an author of some years, you know, he's more interested in those kind of complexities. But there's also nothing wrong with exploring a fantastical world which has genuine metaphysical good and evil in it. And that says absolutely nothing about the real world.

[RPG Pundit]

It's not just that there's nothing wrong with it. It's that there's something fundamentally important about it. Right? It's the same reason that myths and legends that. And that, you know, like religious stories in a culture are very important is because they create this basis of these landmarks from which we can determine our own character and our own behavior, right? We can never reach that perfection of goodness or what have you, but we can understand those as. As. As positions for us to take, for us to say, yeah, there are some things, some actions that are better to take than others, right? And we always have a choice in our lives which way we take it. And it's very important, I think, to be able to present that. And it's not that it doesn't say anything about the real world. What it says about the real world is we have to be able to work through these things in myth so that we can try to be able to do the right thing in the real world and so we can create a society in our real world where we have certain standards. I think that Strauss. It's not just because he's an experienced writer that he doesn't care. Care about this stuff. It's because he's fundamentally a rotten postmodernist to the core that. That believes in nothing. Right. He's a nihilist. Right. As most people who try to present this entirely relativist view of the world is. And it's stuff like this. It's the fact that we. We've taught a generation of children that there's no such thing as good and bad, that now we have millennials campaigning to the government in order to impose censorship. Right. To limit our rights to speech, or defending the genital mutilation of little girls as a cultural value that we can't judge because the evil white west is bad too, or something like that. And so if there are immigrant communities in the west that are secretly defacing the genitals of young female children, then we can't say that's bad. It might even be feminist because somehow it's empowering to them in their culture. And, you know, these kind of lies that distort everything. Right. And that allow atrocities to happen.

[Venger Satanis]

See, I think I would probably end up disagreeing with both you and Stross because you're both talking about the importance of fiction and how it relates. How it relates to reality. He's saying, you know, these concepts of fantasy races and so on, good and evil are dangerous. You're saying these. Some of these concepts, good and evil and so on are good. I would say, you know, that this is fiction, and both of you are probably taking it too seriously. You know, stories can be powerful, they can be affecting, but stories are the

[RPG Pundit]

basis of our entire culture.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah.

[RPG Pundit]

Not just any stories, but they don't. Of our entire culture.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah. I'd say they don't like remote control people. They don't take you over. The memes aren't that. Aren't that powerful, aren't that strong. And this is something that I think STR should know. If he's been involved in gaming, if he's been involved in science fiction and fantasy, because, you know, he's been through the moral panics. And I see him, and I see Monty Cook and I see others who are far too willing these days to jump on board with the idea that games can be massively affecting. That they need to conform to certain political points of view and certain things are verboten and cannot be examined, even in fiction. And that, that worries me. This, that's where a lot of this pressure to censor and control seems to be coming from. From accepting the idea that we used to reject when it was evangelical preachers wanting to burn monster manuals. You know, that's absolutely.

[RPG Pundit]

But it's, but it is a. But the motive behind it is this fundamental hatred of myth. That is something that you see over and over again in the, in the kind of. In the postmodernist mentality, right? Because they twist around. They completely twist around the way D and D actually works in order to create this false narrative that. Oh, you know, D and D is about. Like a D and D game is about a bunch of white nationalists that are going around killing orcs, which are really meant to be black people or something like that. Right. Like that's an unbelievably twisted perspective of what a D and D game actually looks like. Because in a D and D game, what you usually have is, is a group of characters who come from different races, right? There's elves and dwarves and humans and halflings, different, you know, ethnic groups within the setting and who have, who belong to different classes. So you have the knight and then you have the kind of like the wily peasant thief or whatever, right. And that they're all coming together, all these diverse people are coming together usually to defend some kind of helpless people, right? To go to the borderland and help the peasants against these, these goblinoids that are trying to just pass over and destroy everything.

[Venger Satanis]

Right?

[RPG Pundit]

So there are people that are trying to protect, you know, there are good games where you play evil characters or whatever. But there are, but, but the, the default model of D and D is that you're heroes that are, you know, working in part to protect civilization and specifically to protect the vulnerable people of civilization. Because you're strong characters that are fighting to protect zero level peasants against Yorkish invasions, you know, and stuff like that. Right? So it's like it's all about protecting the defenseless, right?

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah. I mean, you know, stories can impart good things, good knowledge, you know, all of these kind of things. It's just, I, I would just put the brakes on and go, you know, whoa nelly. If you don't want to be saying that these things are. Are these that powerful and that affecting because then you're giving people ammunition to attack you with. That's. That's where my main concern lies. I Think.

[RPG Pundit]

Well, to me, I, I'm going to be absolutely unrepentant about my, my defense of D and D. Not, I don't think D and D itself of course, is a very, you know, light hearted sort of version of this. Right. But this is only one front in a larger war against the kind of foundational values and foundational symbols of the West. Right?

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah.

[RPG Pundit]

And our foundational mythology, right. Which is, which is, which is important because if you destroy the foundational mythology, not criticize it, because you can, you can observe it with a kind of a critical lens in certain contexts, you can reinvent. And in fact, in every generation you kind of have to reinvent your mythology. You have to, to reassess and recreate it in new ways. But these guys aren't trying to recreate it, they're just trying to destroy it.

[Venger Satanis]

Right?

[RPG Pundit]

And when you destroy it, then what you have is a, is generations of people who have no values at all. They have no moral center, they have no moral compass because you, you don't, they don't have a north or a south to point to, right? So whether it's in religion or whether it's in just our kind of common literary myth and legend, those things are important in order for us to have a kind of a cultural standard by which we can determine what are the things that we actually value. Right? And so we need to defend this against people who say, no, we shouldn't value anything. Right? We should just, everybody should just, you know, be these self centered idiots that live for themselves, you know, and it's very funny. I had in the, in my debate here when I criticized Mercer, of course, a lot of these critical role people came out to, to judge me, right. Mercer himself said, oh, that I need therapy or so, you know, he would, if he had the power, he would put me in a Soviet mental hospital, of course, right. As he would all his political enemies. Because these people always think that they're so right that anyone who disagrees with them should probably be silenced forever. But there was one guy that like commented something like, oh, you know, it's, it, I wish your parents would hug you or something like that. Like, like, like what is wrong with these people? And what's wrong with it is that they are whatever their age is because this guy probably wasn't a kid. He was probably in his 30s, right? But he's a mental infant. He's an emotional infant more than anything, right? And you know, this is, this is a show of just how self oriented these people are because they have nothing else to stand for. And I said, look, you know, my parents, both of whom are still alive, you know, praise kek. But they're, they're, they, they've always, you know, I think they've always loved me.

[Venger Satanis]

Right.

[RPG Pundit]

There was a time when, when, because they're very Catholic, you know, they're very religiously conservative, and I'm not. And I'm a, I'm a libertarian culturally. Right. So there were times when our views were very distant from each other, it seemed, because I was certainly identifying all through the 90s as a liberal cultural libertarian, as somebody on the left. And they were in the kind of the conservative right, you could say, the religious, the social right. And so there was a distance between us politically. But they've always loved me. And now, of course, ironically, they're in their dotage and here I am in my middle age and we've become much more closer in that sense of the spectrum because the, the other side has gone off to some extreme. My views haven't really changed. Their views haven't really changed. But all of a sudden we're cheering for a lot of the same things because the other side have become monsters, Right? They just become these psychotic lunatics that want to tear everything down. Right. But yeah.

[Venger Satanis]

And can't tolerate disagreement.

[RPG Pundit]

The fundamental thing I'm trying to say, though is that none of that matters because it shouldn't matter to an adult person that their parents love them. Right? It should matter, you know, in a kind of generic sense. But that's not the most important thing. The most important thing if you're an adult is that you're doing things in your life that have value, that have merit, that do something. And it shouldn't be about, oh, who's going to hug me? It's about how am I going to help the world around me and how am I going to help people who need me, who am I going to provide aid for? Not who's going to hug me, who's going to take care of me, like these 30 year old toddlers that, that, that can still only think of their own immediate gratification and their own immediate emotional security. Right. The fact that this guy thinks that this is something someone else needs is just, just. It shows how far they've gone from any of the kind of values and standards that our culture used to hold up, you know.

[Venger Satanis]

And yeah, principle is lacking, I think. I mean, with this whole Kavanaugh thing, I don't think he should be on the Supreme Court or whatever. But for other reasons. But just like I was saying at the start, just the idea of innocent until proven guilty or withholding judgment, that's enough to have people hate you and harangue you and unfollow you and unfriend you. There's this demand for complete and total orthodoxy in everything, including leisure activities like, like games. There is this absolute gatekeeping, ironically, from people who say, you know, they're against gatekeeping. It's just bizarre and depressing. We should probably wrap up. Is there anything in particular you've got to. To pimp out or.

[RPG Pundit]

Well, no, nothing more. Nothing really in particular. We're back doing after a two week hiatus because the publisher had some computer problems. We're publishing the RPG Pundit Presents series and every week there's new stuff for either for, you know, lion and Dragon or Dark Albion or for, you know, Gonzo OSR gaming inspired by my Last sun campaign. And of course keep checking out my, my YouTube channel, which I, I wanted to thank everybody who's been subscribing to that. I've. I'm, I, I don't know if I've quite hit it yet, but I'm probably on the verge of hitting 500 subscribers, which is a, is a good step. And I've noticed how many people are just, you know, joining in and building up that, that channel and yeah, this channel too. So the best thing people can do for us in addition to supporting us on Patreon so that Venger can, can get permission from his wife to stay up later would be to, to share these videos so that more people see it and more people subscribe and the word gets out there.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah. So October's coming up. Brad McDevitt, who's an artist that I work with a lot, he's doing, I think, a monster a day piece of clip art which will be sold through my post Mortem studio store on Drivethru rpg. I'll probably be blogging monsters and things throughout October as well, horror themed stuff. So keep an eye out for that. Yeah, I think that about covers it for us all, doesn't it?

[RPG Pundit]

Yep, I think so. And it's a good show and I want to thank everybody who came on to chat during our stream and it's

[Venger Satanis]

a bit hard for us to keep track of it, but maybe we'll do another like chat in show or something.

[RPG Pundit]

Do a kind of a Q and A sort of thing.

[Venger Satanis]

Yeah, we'll think about that either for next episode or the one after. But yeah, we'll see you all later. And please do share the video around.

[RPG Pundit]

Yeah. Currently smoking Mastro de paella Rhodesian plus image Virginia tobacco that tastes like tobacco.

[Venger Satanis]

And I'm just smoking. All right. Good night.

[RPG Pundit]

All I want to say before you. Before you cut it off, we have managed to have a successful show tonight without Venger showing us his penis. I consider that a great victory.

[Venger Satanis]

That's a win for everybody.

[RPG Pundit]

Everybody. I think everybody left and right. We can all agree on that one.

[Venger Satanis]

Does he dress left or right? That right. We're going. Bye.

[RPG Pundit]

Bye.