Podcast Summary: "Incels" – Episode 9: Looksmaxxing

Host: Courtney Armstrong (KT Studios, iHeartPodcasts)
Date: November 19, 2025

Overview

This episode of Incels delves into the phenomenon of "looksmaxxing"—a subculture intertwined with online incel communities focused on maximizing physical attractiveness. Through the voices of journalists, social scientists, former and current incel members, and cultural critics, the episode explores how what starts as self-improvement spirals into cycles of criticism, marginalization, monetization, and occasionally, radicalization. The conversation also touches on related trends like "transmaxxing" and the underlying psychological dynamics fueling these subcultures.

Main Topics & Key Insights

1. What Is Looksmaxxing? (04:32–06:42)

• Definition:
  Rupert Smalls (Social Scientist):

  “It's kind of a belief that, you know, there are various different ways and methods to maximize your physical appearance as a kind of methodology and set of recipes...the belief is that they'll improve their life in some way.” (04:32)

• Origins:
  Journalist Simon Osborne relates that looksmaxxing rose from forums like 4chan, later spreading to TikTok, and is primarily a male pursuit focusing intensely on facial features—"jawlines, cheekbones, hunter eyes"—and sharing improvement routines.
• Peer Critique:
  Osborne highlights the harsh, often cruel, “bitchy and mean” (21:18) nature of communal feedback, likening it to the social scrutiny traditionally associated with young women.

2. Community Dynamics & Radicalization (07:01–09:42)

• Dangerous Advice:
  Smalls warns:

  “Instead what many people are getting is, you know, if you can’t hit these benchmarks, then you should really consider self-harm.” (07:05)

• Monetization:
  Vulnerability is often exploited for profit, with dubious products/services marketed as solutions.
• Crossover to Incel Ideology:
  Looksmaxxing, originally self-improvement, can devolve “to a manifestation of ill will—a contest between men and women…some of the men have started to exhibit violent behaviors towards women…” (08:38)
  The parallel to female "natural beauty" industries becomes darker due to recruitment into misogynist, grievance-based narratives.
• Trauma and Blame:
  Community pressure and failed self-modification can traumatize young men, escalating resentment toward women (11:02).

3. Origin and Spread of Lookism and Incel Communities (12:28–14:34)

• Community Evolution Timeline:
  Luis (self-identified black pilled incel) maps the community’s genealogy from early inclusive forums (created by a lesbian woman) to PUA Hate, Slut Hate, Lookism.net, and modern PSL (Physical Sexual Looks) ranking forums.

  “The modern iteration…black pill and lookism…started on a forum called PUAhate.com...They started talking about the importance of your looks.” (12:28–13:52)

• PSL Ranking:
  Forums created a scale rating men’s looks from 1–8; obsession with these standards proliferated.

4. Popular Techniques & Influencers (10:16–24:36)

• “Mewing” Trend:
  Describes the widespread tongue posture exercise trending on TikTok to “accentuate your jawline and get rid of a double chin.” (10:33–10:50)
  Hashtag #mewing has over a billion views online.

• Punitive Practices:
  Extreme methods like “bonesmashing”—literally hitting one’s jaw to alter its shape—are present, highlighting the community’s self-destructive undercurrent.

• Surgery Market:
  Simon Osborne notes serious consideration of procedures like “£10,000…to extend his chin” (22:37) and other male-targeted aesthetic surgeries (leg lengthening, penis enlargement).

  “I've written about hair transplants and tooth surgery and chin implants with this…I’ve written about leg lengthening surgery, penis enlargements, and then they’re all about men.” (23:16)

• Influencers:
  Kareem Shami (“Syrian Psycho,” “godfather of looksmaxing,” 2.5 million followers)—a transformation influencer who markets aesthetic enhancement coaching and bridges “hypermasculinity, influencer commerce, and self-improvement.”
  Osborne notes Shami’s conflicted image, using “Patrick Bateman from American Psycho” as a TikTok photo, raising questions about “misogyny and hyper masculinity.” (20:09–20:52)

  “He had really taken off as a kind of big figure on TikTok under the name Syrian Psycho.” (20:52)

5. Overlap, Radicalization & Harms (24:19–29:56)

• Toxic Feedback Loops:
  Forums are filled with negativity:

  “We saw no one get universal praise. We saw everybody get insults…and predominantly people are told they’re considerably ugly or unattractive.”
  —Rupert Smalls (22:17)

• Self-Harm & Violence:

  “Some would lead to self harm, some would lead to violence against women...”
  —Rupert Smalls (33:10)

• Correlation with Violence:
  While rare, a cultural overlap exists between looksmaxxing, incel, and even mass shooter communities:

  “They share memes, they share members, they share symbols and meaning together and they develop that.” (26:03) Elliot Rodger is highlighted as a mythologized figure in these circles.

6. Is This New for Men? Gendered Pressures and Impacts (23:10–24:36)

• Comparison to Female Beauty Standards:
  Osborne:

  “It’s the same motivations, the same people and the same kind of pressures...it’s young men feeling insecure and then having that insecurity fueled by online communities.” (23:16)

• Market Exploitation:
  Demand is driven by insecurity; dubious cosmetic surgeons and products capitalize on vulnerability.

7. The Black Pill & Fatalism (28:03–28:47)

• “Black pill” Ideology:
  The belief that one’s genetics and lack of attractiveness are immutable and doom one to social and romantic failure.
  Smalls observes looksmaxxing can become “an innately hopeful ideology,” but in the incel context is path-dependent and easily turns fatalistic.

• Firsthand Account (Mr. East, black pilled incel):

  “Certain traits you have, such as looks, wealth, they make it more likely for you to succeed...despite what society tells you, the nice guy never wins. Unless you’re handsome and good looking.” (28:47–29:56)

8. The Rise and Meaning of "Transmaxxing" (35:17–39:31)

• Definition and Roots:
  Quispe Lopez (Editor, them):
  “Transmaxxing” is a transphobic internet trope, not a real-life movement—idea that men should transition to women for supposed social benefits, based on a fringe, “rambling manifesto.” (36:24)
• Underlying Ideology:
  Based in the incel belief that “society benefits women” and that transitioning is a shortcut for failed men.
• Manifesto Origins:
  Authored by a user “Bentology” and rooted in obscure internet forums.

  “It basically details all of the social benefits...like, you’ll get cheaper car insurance. You will find partnership...ignoring tangible realities…like increased threats of violence.” (38:03)

• Lopez’s Warning:

  “Trans maxers aren’t a threat to your daily life...they don’t exist as a movement…It’s just a transphobic internet trope as opposed to, like, an entire community of people.” (39:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On harsh self-critique:
  “A big part of [looksmaxxing forums] is swapping pictures of your own face for often quite harsh criticism.”
  – Simon Osborne (06:13)

• On hopelessness:
  “I see literally zero hope.”
  – Rupert Smalls (03:00)

• From a black pilled incel:
  “If I was a woman, I wouldn’t date me either.”
  – Luis (02:48)

• On the community’s internal logic:
  “The general consensus within society is that be nice, be respectful, you will succeed. This is like the biggest contradiction...the nice guy never wins. Unless you’re handsome and good looking.”
  – Mr. East (28:47)

Important Timestamps

• Definition and early discourse – 04:32
• Evolution of incel forums – 12:28
• Mewing explained – 10:33
• Surgery and influencer aspects – 19:00, 24:19
• Online negativity and peer feedback – 21:59, 22:17
• Overlap with violence and radicalization – 26:03, 33:10, 34:07
• Transmaxxing explained – 35:17, 36:24

Tone & Language

The episode is analytical, at times somber and urgent, drawing on clinical social science, first-person testimony, and cultural critique. Interviewees often speak matter-of-factly about self-loathing and hopelessness, sometimes using community jargon (“black pill,” “hunter eyes,” “lookism”), but always circling back to the psychological cost and societal implications. The hosts maintain a neutral, investigative tone while emphasizing concern over the more dangerous or exploitative elements.

Conclusion

This episode of Incels exposes how the drive for self-improvement in the digital age can, inside online echo chambers, morph into cycles of harsh judgment, exploitation, and even radicalization. Looksmaxxing, while rooted in familiar beauty culture, becomes a distinctive vector for masculine self-loathing, monetized vulnerability, and community-enabled psychological harm. The episode closes by recalling how tropes like "transmaxxing" serve as transphobic memes and underscores the need for critical media literacy and supportive intervention—especially as more young men become enmeshed in these spaces.