310. Sebastian Junger. Hegseth’s Mom Pushes Back. Biden Pardons Hunter. Dems Are Ridiculous. Of Course Trump’s Sec of the Navy Never Served. The Economist Wants to Cut Vets Benefits. Russia Steals Ukrainian Kids. Martial Law in South Korea. Wild Robot.

Summary

Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff – Episode 310: Guest: Sebastian Junger Release Date: December 5, 2024

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Paul Rieckhoff tackles the turbulent state of American politics in December 2024, in the aftermath of Thanksgiving and ahead of Donald Trump’s imminent return to the presidency. The episode unpacks a barrage of alarming cabinet nominations, exposes deep concerns about both Republican and Democratic leadership, and scrutinizes escalating global crises. Special guest Sebastian Junger—renowned author, filmmaker, and thinker—returns to share insight from his near-death experience, his views on American masculinity, and the looming challenges as America heads into 2025.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Chaos in Trump’s Cabinet Picks and Political Culture

• Trump’s Thanksgiving Video & Dysfunction ([01:41])

  • Rieckhoff dissects a bizarre, viral Thanksgiving video Trump posted, calling it emblematic of the Trump era’s “cultural, political, moral, and intellectual Great Depression.”
  • “Our kids are watching. And on Thanksgiving, especially, our kids are watching. And around the world, our enemies are celebrating.” – Paul Rieckhoff ([02:02])

• Pete Hegseth’s Disqualifying Nomination ([02:52])

  • Rieckhoff recaps the damning New Yorker exposé on Pete Hegseth, Trump’s nominee for Secretary of Defense: reports of drunken behavior, financial mismanagement, sexism, and workplace abuse.
  • Highlights a scathing letter from Hegseth’s own mother published in The New York Times: “You are an abuser of women. That is the ugly truth...I say get some help and take an honest look at yourself, Mom.” ([07:54])
  • Rieckhoff introduces the “school principal test” for appointments: if you wouldn’t want this person as your child’s school principal, why let them run the Pentagon?

• Sen. Tommy Tuberville’s Defense of Hegseth ([09:36])

  • Rieckhoff ridicules Tuberville’s defense, exposing the ongoing Republican disregard for ethics and expertise.

• Kash Patel and Other Radical Appointments ([12:37])

  • A review of Trump’s additional dangerous and unqualified picks (e.g., Kash Patel for FBI Director, Steven Feinberg as Defense Undersecretary, Doug Collins for VA Secretary).
  • “It’s a fantastic fit for the worst and most disqualified nominee lineup in American history.” – Paul Rieckhoff ([13:43])

2. Veterans’ Benefits and Looming Cuts ([14:07])

• Reference to The Economist’s editorial advocating cutting veterans’ benefits, and concerns about the privatization of VA under Trump’s team.
• “So brace for a fight, vets.” – Paul Rieckhoff ([14:35])

3. Global Crises and National Security ([15:55])

• Syria’s Shifting Battlefield ([16:40])
  • Update on Assad possibly fleeing and Syrian insurgents’ surprising gains in Aleppo.
• South Korea’s Constitutional Crisis ([18:04])
  • Rieckhoff draws parallels between South Korea’s martial law and the potential for a similar crisis in America.
• Risks with National Guard Mobilization ([19:29])
  • Concerns about Trump’s promised deportation campaign and the potential for a constitutional crisis if National Guard units are federalized against governors’ wishes.

4. The Aftermath of the Afghanistan Pullout ([20:55])

• Rieckhoff references Jason Kander’s work, spotlighted on 60 Minutes, on rescuing Afghan allies left behind—foreshadowing similar struggles elsewhere.

5. U.S. Politics: Democrats’ Failures and Biden’s Hunter Pardon ([24:08])

• Democratic Dysfunction ([25:38])

  • Scathing critique of Democrats for “sucking in different ways” and Biden’s broken promise, pardoning his son Hunter, branding it “abuse of power...inexcusable.” ([26:41])
  • “He lied. And the 180 degree turnaround he did is shameful and outrageous.” – Paul Rieckhoff ([26:41])
  • Rieckhoff urges listeners to leave the Democratic Party to send a message.

• Democrat Response to Hunter Pardon ([28:10])

  • Democratic leaders point to Trump’s legal issues as justification, which Rieckhoff criticizes as “not good for America or good political strategy.”

6. College Football and the State of American ‘Independence’ ([29:24])

• Brief interlude celebrating college football and its political intersections; Rieckhoff regards independents as surging in political influence after a tough election cycle for veterans.

7. Interview with Sebastian Junger ([35:52])

Junger’s Near-Death Experience and Book ([36:32])

• Junger describes surviving a ruptured aneurysm, the randomness of the event (“it’s like I got stabbed in the stomach or something”), and how it deepened his curiosity about consciousness and reality ([36:50]).

State of American Democracy: Both Sides Failing ([40:13])

• On Democrats:

  • “This should have been easy...Trump, even his supporters acknowledge...a harsh authoritarian viewpoint...at odds with our founding fathers’ vision.”
  • “One of the things I hate most about the Democrats is their willing embrace of the victim position...How could this be done to us?” – Sebastian Junger ([41:03])
  • Critiques the party’s shift from working-class advocacy to elitist preoccupation with “very abstract concerns about bathrooms and gender.”
  • “We set ourselves up for this.” – Sebastian Junger ([44:42])

• On Republicans & Trump:

  • Junger regards Trump’s appeal as straightforward authoritarianism: “He’s running a TV show. He likes the visuals of good-looking white men running things.” ([57:35])

Masculinity and the Democratic Disconnect ([46:38]; [50:54])

• Junger explains Democrats' alienation of young men by branding masculinity as inherently toxic.

  • “You’re really asking me why the party that came up with ‘all sex is rape’...then followed up with ‘toxic masculinity, male privilege’...are losing male voters?” ([54:13])

• On Roganism:

  • Junger describes Joe Rogan as “extremely personable, forthright in his opinions...if corrected, he immediately concedes.” Not aligned with conspiracies but provides a welcoming space for alienated young men.
  • “[Rogan’s] collected a lot of people who are contrarian because it makes them feel smart and powerful.” ([50:54])

• Critiques left-wing’s reluctance to discuss class issues, focusing instead on race and gender abstractions.

On Cabinet Radicalization and ‘Fk Around and Find Out’ ([57:35])**

• Junger considers Trump’s cabinet picks shockingly extreme but sees it as a necessary reckoning for American democracy:
  • “Let’s find out once and for all how authoritarian the American public really is...if it does that, I think it’s going to collapse.”
  • “It’s like, fuck around and find out. Let’s see how this works.”

Prediction: Will It Burn Down? ([62:08]; [63:31])

• Rieckhoff asks Junger for his outlook on potential chaos.
  • Junger is ultimately optimistic the military and public will resist federal overreach:
    • “One of the few things that unites left and right is abhorrence of misuse of state power...I can’t imagine any officer or soldier obeying an illegal order for use of force within the 50 states.” ([63:31])
• Adds that Trump would court disaster by trying to use the military for domestic crackdowns or mass deportations.

Final Thoughts: Hope and Leadership

• Rieckhoff urges listeners to “stay vigilant,” look for the helpers, and keep faith in the American independent movement.
• Ends with a recommendation for the family film “Wild Robot” as a parable for kindness and resilience amid chaos.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Hegseth’s nomination:
  “If your own mother doesn’t trust you to lead, why should America’s mothers and fathers trust you to lead their kids?” – Paul Rieckhoff ([08:34])

• On Democratic failings:
  “One of the things I hate most about the Democrats is their willing embrace of the victim position.” – Sebastian Junger ([41:03])

• On party elites losing touch:
  “We have become incredibly elitist. We have walked away from those people and their concerns. They had nowhere to go but Trump.” – Junger ([43:26])

• On masculinity and why men drift from the left:
  “The party that came up with slogans like ‘all sex is rape’...then followed up with ‘toxic masculinity...are losing male voters’...are you surprised?” – Junger ([54:13])

• On the existential test of Trump’s new term:
  “If I’m worried I have cancer, I want to know. I want to do a PET scan...right now, we’re at the PET scan phase of this process.” – Junger ([61:16])

• On potential for military overreach:
  “I can’t imagine any general or any officer and most soldiers obeying an illegal order for the use of force within the 50 states.” – Junger ([64:31])

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [01:41] – Trump’s Thanksgiving video recap and cultural commentary
• [02:52] – Hegseth’s nomination and mother’s letter
• [09:36] – Tuberville’s defense of Hegseth
• [13:43] – Steven Feinberg and other cabinet picks
• [14:07] – The Economist’s push to cut veterans benefits
• [15:55] – Updates: Syria, South Korea, NYC National Guard/migrant crisis
• [20:55] – Afghanistan pullout and Jason Kander segment
• [24:08] – Ukraine update and Biden’s Hunter pardon
• [29:24] – College football culture reference
• [35:52] – Sebastian Junger’s interview begins
• [36:32] – Junger discusses his near-death experience
• [40:13] – Junger analyzes the failings of both parties
• [46:38] – Masculinity, Joe Rogan, and the Democratic disconnect
• [54:13] – Young men, the left, and class issues
• [57:35] – Radicalization in Trump’s cabinet
• [62:08] – Risks of Guard federalization; Junger’s cautious optimism
• [66:16] – Rieckhoff asks Junger to run for mayor (light moment)

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Tone & Takeaways

• The episode is urgent, punchy, irreverent, and deeply critical—true to Independent Americans’ “angry middle” style.
• Both parties come in for sharp critique, with no punches pulled regarding abuse of office, hypocrisy, or failure to connect with real Americans.
• Sebastian Junger provides deeply thoughtful, nuanced, and sometimes surprising commentary—critical of the left but insistent on democratic fundamentals and hope for the country.
• Strong through-line: ordinary Americans must remain vigilant, engaged, and refuse to accept the false choices and demagoguery presented by both parties.

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Summary for New Listeners

Whether or not you’re up-to-the-minute on the news, this episode delivers an unflinching, brutally honest reckoning with the state of U.S. politics as 2025 approaches. Rieckhoff and Junger expose the rot, hypocrisy, and dangers of both major parties and challenge listeners to demand more—for themselves, their families, and their country. The show ends by calling for kindness, vigilance, and renewal through America’s independent movement.

“Stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom, and hope is the oxygen of democracy—something we’re going to need more of, especially in the days to come.” – Paul Rieckhoff ([71:53])

Transcript

[A]

Power by Righteous Media.

[B]

We want to talk right down to.

[C]

Earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand.

[A]

Look in my eyes.

[C]

What do you say?

[B]

See?

[A]

Welcome to Independent Americans. Welcome to episode 310 and welcome to December 2024. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. I've said it before on this show, we are entering into a cultural, political, moral and intellectual Great Depression. And Thanksgiving gave us a big old nasty taste. And if you didn't need the Rolaids after your big meal, you definitely did after this. Because now, even on Thanksgiving and going into the holidays is still a time to stay vigilant. If this turkey tastes half as good as it looks, I think we're all in for a very big treat.

[B]

Save the neck for me, Clark.

[A]

Okay, Adam. Oh my God. If you're trying to figure out what you're hearing, that is a very bizarre and weird video that Donald Trump tweeted on Thanksgiving Day that was like a caricature of Joe Biden cutting a turkey with Kamala Harris and her husband laughing on one side and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi on the other side. And then Biden cuts into a turkey and out jumps Donald Trump dancing, which shocks Elon Omar and AOC and YMCA plays and Donald Trump dances over a Thanksgiving table full of Democrats, which is very, very, very weird. I mean, what the fuck? It just never ends with this guy. Our kids are watching. And on Thanksgiving, especially our kids are watching. And around the world, our enemies are celebrating. And it's not just stuff like that video. It's been the bizarre Thanksgiving presentation that is his cabinet and especially the drama around Secretary of Defense nominee Pete Hegseth. I warned you to brace yourself when Hegseth was first nominated, but the hits just keep on coming. And most recently, it was a New Yorker article talking about Pete Hegseth's secret history that showcased the whistleblower reports and other damaging documents that suggested that Trump's nominee to run the Pentagon was forced out of previous leadership positions at non profit veterans groups for financial mismanagement, sexist behavior, and repeatedly being drunk on the job. There was a detailed seven page report which was compiled by multiple former Concerned Veterans of America employees and sent to the organization's senior management in February of 2015 that states at one point that Hegseth had to be restrained because he was drunk. They had to hold him from jumping on the dancers on the stage of a Louisiana strip club where he had brought his team. It also says that Hegseth, who was married at the time and Other members of his management team sexually pursued the organization's female staffers, who were divided into two groups, the party girls and the non party girls. In addition, the report asserted that Hegseth's leadership under the organization became a hostel workplace that ignored serious accusations of impropriety, including an allegation made by a female employee that another employee on Hegseth's staff had attempted to sexually assault her at a Louisiana strip club. In a separate letter of complaint, which was sent to the organization in 2015, a different former employee described Hegseth being at a bar in the early mornings of May 29, 2015, while on an official tour, drunkenly chanting kill all Muslims. Kill all Muslims. Now, Hegseth has denied this, of course, but the disqualifying Hegseth revelations continue. And I continue to assert that he is the least qualified or maybe the most disqualified nominee in American history. Not everyone knew the specifics, but most folks in the veteran space who knew Hegseth knew that he'd have a pretty hard time passing a normal vetting and therefore he would never be nominated. It's why I always thought he'd get chief of staff or press secretary under Trump to avoid the public vetting. But these are not normal times and the issues recently reported that Hegseth contests or disputes are many. And of course more will probably continue to come out in the days to come. But there's something he's never the adultery, which is still a violation in the military. Under the ucmj, the Uniform Code of Military justice, there's something called Article 134 that addresses adultery. So yes, if you were a private or a captain or a colonel who committed adultery in the military, you could be prosecuted under the ucmj. But what about Pete Hegseth? But putting that aside, there's also just all the drama and volatility. So much drama and so many allegations related to unprofessional, insulting, extreme, sexist and potentially abusive behavior. It's not the stuff of a leader. For the greatest and most diverse military on the planet. We need our Secretary of Defense to be a role model for all all troops, not the exception to the rules that make the whole military system work. And I'll keep saying it. Give him and all the Trump nominees what I'm calling the school principal test. Would you be okay with this person being named the new principal of your kids or grandkids school? If not, then why are you okay with him as Secretary of defense, overseeing almost 3 million employees and our brave and precious young sons and Daughters in uniform and so many serving in harm's way right now. Would you really be okay with this guy as the school principal for your, let's say, 16 year old daughter? How about if he was the Boss for your 17 year old daughter who was enlisting in the military? And if you think it's all just some big partisan spin and a massive hit job on an otherwise great guy, then you haven't read the words of his mother, his own mother. And keep in mind, every woman in the military and every woman thinking about joining the military has probably read the letter, too. The letter was printed in the New York Times. And here's the most important part. She wrote, you are an abuser of women. That is the ugly truth. And I have no respect for any man that belittles, lies, cheats, sleeps around and uses women for his own power and ego. You are that man and have been for years. And as your mother, it pains me and embarrasses me to say that, but it is the sad, sad truth. There's more. But she ended with this. On behalf of all the women, and I know it's many you have abused in some way, I say get some help and take an honest look at yourself, Mom. If your own mother doesn't trust you to leave, why should America's mothers and fathers trust you to lead their kids? Hegseth continues to be further revealed as the least qualified and most overtly political nominee for SECDEF in American history. And maybe the most disqualified. That's what I posted about Hegseth when he was first nominated. And it was kind of easy to see for anyone who knew him and was paying attention to the landscape. I told you to brace yourself, America. And now it's coming out. And he lied. He lied to his wife or wives. He lied to his employer, and he even lied to Trump, who has apparently been surprised by some of these allegations. So how can America trust this man to lead our troops and handle our nukes? We can't. And even Trump knows it. Now, a nomination for Secretary of Defense is as serious as it gets in politics. And unless you're blindly loyal or partisan, you know this is not what's best for our great military and national defense. And you know that our enemies are celebrating. Unless, of course, you're the leading senator defending Pete Hegsett. And guess who it is. Come on, guess, guess, guess. You're gonna guess it. Are you gonna guess it? Guess who it is.

[B]

We had a good meeting. I've known Pete for a while. He's going to be a great secretary of defense. He understands it. As I tell him, we don't need a general officer, admiral, or a person of high command. We need a drill sergeant in the military. We need somebody to straighten the military out, to get the. Woke the DEI affiliation out and go from there. And you don't have any concerns about the allegations against him in the New York. No, I've looked at all the personal.

[C]

Stuff and again, I've known him for.

[B]

A long time and I've. I would. There's not gonna be anything to this at the end of the day.

[A]

Yep, you got it. This guy.

[B]

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[A]

Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville continues to reveal how little he knows about the military, America and ethics. And when he's the one leading the defense of Hegseth, you know this nomination is in big trouble. And given his fealty and lack of integrity, it's surprising Trump hasn't nominated Tuberville for anything yet. Now, of course, there's still time, but this nomination, like many others, is not normal, it is not acceptable, and it is not inevitable if Trump doesn't drop him and he doesn't back out. Every senator must do the right thing. Put our military and our country first and vote no. That is how you put country first. And that is what's required. We're looking at you, especially senators Joni Ernst, Lindsey Graham, Jim Banks and all the other Republican vets in Congress. I think the key is going to be Republican Senator Joni Ernst, who is herself a combat veteran and herself a survivor of sexual assault. And I hope she and the others will put country over party and loyalty to Trump because the fate of our troops and our national security depends on it. Because this December stakes is so high. You know them stakes. Yep. Senator Joni Ernst is the key. If she puts country over party and votes no, other Republicans will quickly follow. It might happen before this podcast drops. But if Trump had picked her instead of Hegseth, Ernst is infinitely more qualified and would have sailed through the confirmation process and made history as America's first woman sectef. And it could still happen. He's also rumored to be considering Ron DeSantis and others, but we will find out. Meanwhile, here in America, we will get no peace. Trump will give us new reason to be concerned every single day. And no weekends off, even holiday weekends. Because this weekend, the caravan of crazy continued as Trump continued to pour out announcements of people he's appointing to a variety of posts, from NASA director to Navy secretary to very, very importantly FBI director, where he named loyalist Kash Patel as FBI director to enforce his radical agenda. Now, you can read up on Cash Patel, but this guy is nuts. And it's another radical, obviously unqualified and dangerously ridiculous selection. The noble people of the FBI need and deserve infinitely better. And Patel, if he doesn't drop out, must be blocked, because otherwise America's national security will most definitely be compromised and our enemies will be celebrating. And there are other nominations that you might have missed as well. He also named his number two at the Pentagon, the undersecretary. That would be Hegseth's backup in this dystopian version of the future. But it's Steven Feinberg, a billionaire from the Upper east side who's conflicted by business ties to defense contractors, never worked in the Pentagon, and never served in the military. Perfect, perfect, perfect. He's a fantastic fit for the worst and most disqualified nominee lineup in American history. Yes, people, our enemies are celebrating. Enemies worldwide enemies who still, on an almost daily basis, shoot rockets and bullets at American troops. That's the sound of a US Air Force A10 over eastern Syria. Make no mistake, there is no formal declaration of war. But far beneath the headlines and the hearings and the scandals, America's sons and daughters are engaged in combat daily. And while you consider that, consider something else. There is now an increasing push to do something that probably would have been considered unthinkable just a few years ago. Led by the Economist, the financially focused magazine this week made headlines by promoting cutting veterans benefits. Oh yes, the Economist wants to cut vets benefits. How soon they forget. This push from the Economist is, of course, and appropriately getting lots of pushback from vets and non vets alike. It's also just a taste of what's to come at the Department of Veterans affairs with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy and Trump's VA secretary nominee, Doug Collins and Roush. There's no way they can cut government spending without cutting earned vets benefits. So brace for a fight. Vets and the privatization ideologue dream for VA that they started in Trump's first term will be fast tracked and fuel injected in January. So watch this space and stay vigilant. And read up on Doug Collins, the radical and unqualified Trump Cabinet nominee that's gotten maybe the least media and congressional attention so far. A reminder, he never served on the House Veterans Affairs Committee, the Armed Services Committee, never worked in the VA or in medicine. But he was a member of Congress for about seven years and had an extreme right wing political position on a variety of topics. He's also, as I've said before, an Iraq War vet and served in the Air Force Reserves as a chaplain. He's also a Baptist minister, and of all the positions in the military, chaplain is the only religious one. So that, of course, makes him a perfect fit for implementing the radical Trump agenda at va. There's nothing moderate and there's nothing independent about any of these picks. So be concerned, America. Even if you're a supporter of Trump, even if you voted for him, you should be deeply, deeply concerned. And you should stay vigilant. But try not to tune out, especially when it comes to combat and national security, especially when it comes to war that continues to rage around the world. Because while most Americans weren't paying attention, there were things happening of extreme significance in other parts of the world, like Syria. Should I pay more attention? I should be paying more attention to you. I should be paying more attention to you. I should be paying more attention to you. I should be paying. Yes, Assad is under pressure and has apparently fled to Moscow as Syrian insurgents are on a roll and they breached Syria's second largest city of Aleppo in a shock offensive. Watch this space. Also, while most Americans weren't paying attention, there was something significant happening in South Korea. In case you didn't think the world could get any more dangerous. South Korea's president declared martial law after months of being deadlocked with his political opposition. The parliament has voted to impeach him. His defense secretary has resigned. His military is opposing him. And it seems like the guardrails, the stop signs, all the checks in the South Korean democracy have held. They've survived and they've endured what seems to be South Korea's version of January 6th. But don't think it's beyond Trump to do exactly the same thing here on January 20, especially if he has his nominee for SecDef confirmed by the Senate, which is, of course, still in jeopardy. But if not, he could be in charge to oversee some really crazy shit. Because while most Americans weren't paying attention, something was also happening here in New York City. Should I pay more attention? I should be paying more attention to you. I. I should be paying more attention to you. In New York City, officials are racing to get the National Guard out of migrant shelters. It was reported by the excellent nonprofit and independent paper the City that New York City officials are racing to scale back the use of National Guard members in migrant shelter operations ahead of President elect Donald Trump's inauguration. Of course, the incoming president has promised to unleash the largest deportation campaign in the nation's history. An administration source who is not authorized to speak to reporters said the city is working to get all Guard members presently in shelters out by early next year. This is because advocates, I think, smartly fear that Trump could federalize the Guard and use the members that are now working at the city sponsored shelters to round up migrants living there. Now watch this space because it's so critical. After January 20th, the National Guard and the active duty are going to be turned into a political chew toy like we've never seen. Trump may actually try to activate Guard units for federal duty to focus on migrants, and some National Guard commanders who were governors may push back, especially blue state governors. Then some troops may refuse the orders to activate and deploy. Legal battles will probably be widespread and fierce and it may go all the way to the Supreme Court. We could see a true constitutional crisis and our national security compromised in minutes. Our country will be divided and millions of troops will be stuck in the middle and our enemies will be celebrating just like they were and are in Afghanistan after the pullout. Because while most Americans weren't paying attention, there's still people surviving an onslaught of oppression inside of Afghanistan. But 60 Minutes thankfully did not forget about Afghanistan. They reminded America about Forgotistan and highlighted an incredible story about my friend Jason Cantor and others who have worked to save our Afghan allies, an issue we covered on this show at length and I want to continue to keep a focus on Check this out.

[B]

This is not how America's longest war was drawn up to end. Afghans fleeing the conquering Taliban in August 2021.

[A]

So desperate to get out they overwhelmed the Kabul airport and clung to.

[B]

Departing US Military planes, a last grasp at freedom. Did it feel like defeat? I mean, it felt like defeat because.

[A]

Technically it was a defeat.

[B]

But it felt much more like leaving people behind personally. Jason Kander had served as an army intelligence officer in Afghanistan, meeting thugs, he says, to glean information about other thugs, often accompanied only by his translator Salam Raoufi. To know that there were people there who had put their lives on the line for us. It felt like leaving a friend behind when you had promised them you wouldn't.

[A]

It's a critical, powerful and urgent story, and one that is far from over. Jason Kander and so many other Americans have heroically stepped up when our government failed, which could happen again in Ukraine.

[B]

You.

[A]

Because we need you not to tune out, especially when it comes to combat overseas in Ukraine. Not now. Last week the Biden administration requested to.

[B]

Attach the upcoming upcoming CR additional aid.

[A]

To Ukraine to $24 billion.

[B]

Do you planning to do that? What is your position? I'm not planning to do that. There are developments by the hour in Ukraine. Ukraine, I think, as we predicted and as I said to all of you weeks before the election, if Donald Trump is elected, it will change that the dynamic of the Russian war on Ukraine. And we're seeing that happen. So it is not the place of Joe Biden to make that decision. Now we have a newly elected president and we're going to wait and take the new commander in chief's direction on all of that. So I don't expect any Ukraine funding to come out now. Yeah.

[A]

As Trump, Vance and his minions threaten to pull the cord on support for Ukraine the first day they get in office, President Zelenskyy highlighted a new piece of critical evidence that underscored Russia's war crimes. Yale University researchers have identified hundreds of Ukrainian children who have been abducted by Russia since February 2022. They also highlighted locations and deportation routes used to. 148 children are already listed in Russia's child placement databases, 42 of which have already been adopted, placed under guardianship or assigned Russian custodians. Another 166 children have been placed with Russian families. As Zelensky said, this report shows the entire world, the extent of Russia's actions to erase Ukrainian identity and how systematic its policy is. Now, Ukraine is, of course, tirelessly working to ensure these kids return home and that those responsible for these heinous crimes are punished. But they need our help. And here in the US Putin is getting what he wants. So Speaker Mike Johnson is ready to pull the plug and Putin will get what he wants because he's been playing the long game all along and now it's paying off. But don't tune out, especially when it comes to combat overseas and threats to our national security here at home, MSNBC and CNN ratings are down and many liberals especially are checking out and many independents, too. While Fox surges and sees record audience numbers, I think that's pretty easy to understand because people don't want to watch their team lose. When The Giants are 2 and 8, nobody wants to watch the game. But when you're the Kansas City Chiefs and you got one loss and seems like you're rolling to the super bowl, you want to watch the fireworks every day. But don't count on the Democrats to stop anything. Because the Democrats couldn't stop the QB from the Puppy bowl, we had to find some Democrats suck music. So I'm gonna try rolling with this. Bellevue.

[B]

That's it.

[A]

I mean, sometimes you just ain't all there.

[B]

Take a look at yourself.

[A]

Yep, Democrats suck, too. In different ways, of course, but they definitely suck. And we are painfully reminded this week as President Biden pardoned his son, Hunter Biden. It's a reversal from the President who repeatedly said he would not pardon his son or commute his sentence. And this week, Joe Biden gave Fox News and Donald Trump an early and everlasting Christmas present. Because this is what he said before.

[C]

With regard to the question regarding the family.

[A]

I'm extremely proud of my son Hunter. He has overcome an addiction. He is. He's one of the brightest, most decent men I know. And I am satisfied that I'm not going to do anything I say. I abide by the jury decision and I will do that and I will not pardon him. But he didn't really mean it. It's like Joe Biden sat down and said, hey, I've got a really fantastic way for more of America to hate me and the Democrats right now. Because there's just no justifying it. Look, I love my sons, too. But first off, he lied. And the 180 degree turnaround he did is shameful and outrageous and it makes it hard to ever believe anything from him ever again. But also it's a total and revolting abuse of power. I think it's un American and I think it's inexcusable. Biden claimed to be above this kind of crap. He just gave Trump and his minions endless political ammunition when they needed it the least. It's going to do damage to the Democrats for decades, in my view, just like the Bill Clinton sex scandal, especially because of the lie. It's just totally unnecessary, infuriating, and to most Americans, gross. And it's another reason to leave the Democratic Party now. It's another reason why more Americans are independent than ever before. 51% and counting. So, Democrats, I would urge you now more than ever before, vote with your feet and leave this dumpster fire of a party now. Show them you won't accept this. You won't give them your loyalty, your money, your family name, your hope, because they don't deserve it. Democrats deny reality and Republicans exaggerate it and all of us suffer. America deserves so much better than this, all of this. I think we need to get an upside down American flag emoji because we're gonna need it a lot in the days to come because it's all bad and ugly and increasingly becoming a race to the bottom now.

[C]

Well, I won't pretend to speak for the entire caucus, but I will say, way to go, Joe. Let me be the first one to congratulate the President for decid do this because at the end of the day, we know that we have a 34 count convicted felon that is about to walk into the White House.

[B]

So for anyone that wants to clutch.

[C]

Their pearls now because he decided that.

[B]

He was going to pardon his son, I would say take a look in.

[C]

The mirror, because we also know that.

[B]

When it comes to this Cabinet, this.

[C]

Cabinet has more people accused of sexual assault than any incoming Cabinet probably ever.

[B]

In the history of America. So we are living in unprecedented times.

[C]

And we know that this was completely political. As someone who serves on the Oversight.

[B]

Committee, this was gamesmanship the entire time.

[A]

But Trump does it too, is the new standard for the Democrats. They're even worse and more corrupt than we saw this election year and even more out of touch with most reasonable and especially independent Americans. Not good for America or good political strategy. So the Dems keep on losing and the Republicans, or at least Trump, are continuing to win. But America is the big loser. But at least we've got college football, right?

[B]

We introduce the next head football coach.

[A]

We got a potential superstar on our hands. We ain't coming no more.

[C]

We back.

[B]

This place is gonna rock. Four teams to 12. College football is completely different. We're going to see a lot of unexpected things happen.

[A]

It's been an amazing college football season this year. Army only has one loss. And Georgia Tech. And Georgia, if you didn't see it over Thanksgiving, went into eight overtimes. It's been an amazing year of college football and it's not done yet. And even that is not insulated from politics because J.D. vance had something to say about the Ohio State Michigan game this weekend. He to the OSU seniors on that team. I know it sucks to lose four to Michigan, but for your entire college career, you guys have conducted yourselves like champions. I speak for nearly all fans when I say we're proud of you. That was after Ohio State lost in a massive upset to Michigan. I'm sure that made them feel a whole lot better to get a tweet from JD Vance. And by the way, they didn't conduct themselves like champions after the game ended. No, they got in a massive brawl in the middle of the field with Michigan and both teams were fined over $100,000. So neither team conducted themselves like champions. They conducted themselves like insurrectionists. No wonder J.D. vance was rooting for him. Yeah, Dems are losing Republicans are winning. America is losing. And independents, we're somewhere in the middle right now, but overall, surging. Wolves.

[B]

I was raised by the wolves. I was raised by the wolves.

[A]

The 2024 election was a big one for us independents. And now finally, in December, it's over. And we have one final update for you on a guest on this show and a candidate, veteran candidate, veteran independent candidate that was endorsed by Independent Veterans of America. Unfortunately, Eric Faulkner, Navy veteran who ran for Temecula City Council in California, has lost. But check this out. He lost by 100 votes. He put up a hell of a fight and he lost 4,145 to 4,045 out of 8,190 votes. He lost by 100. And I told him immediately afterward he did something amazing. And I'm grateful that Eric Faulkner led the way and inspired us. What he did was a win, no matter what that final score says, because this is the beginning, it's not the end. We saw the same thing with Nick Batter, army veteran from Nebraska, who put up a hell of a fight for state legislature and came up short to Ashley Spivey, a Democrat by only 148 votes. Given the stakes that they're up against, given the fact that they're fighting both parties, this is tremendous progress for our movement. And if you're an independent vet that wants to run like these guys in the future, hit me up because next year, Independent Veterans of America will be revealing our new lineup of candidates, our 25 in 25 campaign. And we want you. But before that, the next few weeks, this final few weeks of the year are gonna be wild, wilder than an eight overtime game between Georgia and Georgia Tech. But what happens next? And how do we make sense of all this craziness that's happening in America right now? Well, our guest is a returning champion who can help us figure it out. She danced in the street with the.

[C]

Guns all around her a little tunnel.

[A]

Like a rag doll barefoot in the.

[B]

Rain.

[A]

And she sang like a child to her dead to daddy.

[B]

Oh, how.

[A]

That song is called How Will I Ever Be Simple Again by Richard Thompson. And it was recommended to me by our guest in this show, the incredible Sebastian Younger, author, filmmaker, father, and a man who just wrote a best selling book about what it's like to almost die in and come back. Sebastian Younger has been on this show three other times and if you haven't heard them, you should go back and listen right after this episode. But he has a conscience. He is a voice of reason. He is the right kind of strong, thoughtful, powerful man who can lead America forward just through his example and, of course, through his words. He's one of my favorite regular guests on this show, and I know he's one of yours. If you're new, you're in for a treat. But welcome to December 2024. Welcome to the calm before the storm because, yes, a month from now, this will feel like calm compared to the storm we face after the new year and once Trump is inaugurated. So let's enjoy the holidays because 2025 is gonna be fucking nuts. Welcome to independent Americans, episode 310.

[B]

Oh, how life.

[C]

Ladies and gentlemen, independent Americans around the country and around the world. I hope you. You had a very good Thanksgiving because we are in for a wild December. And as the world continues to be apparently engulfed in flames, controversy rises and stress levels accelerate. I can think of no better guest than to help us. To help us get perspective and clarity and wisdom. Then a great friend of the show, the great and powerful Sebastian Younger, is back on Independent Americans. Welcome back, sir.

[B]

Thank you so much. It's always a pleasure.

[C]

Fourth time, man. Fourth time on the show.

[B]

Right.

[C]

The first time was May 2021. Then we did 1-6-23. Then we did 11-9-23, and now here we are, December 24th. I got to ask you more than anybody else since you died and came back, where are you and how are you?

[B]

Oh, I'm great. We're in New York. I live here with my family, my wife and two little girls who are 7 and 4, and they're in public school nearby. And. And my health is fine. You know, I had a ruptured aneurysm in my pancreatic artery, which is a utterly random thing. It's not like a heart attack or something where you got to deal with other health issues that produce the problem. It's like I got stabbed in the stomach or something. It's like that random, and there's no follow on issues. If you survive, you survive, and there's no issues. So, yeah, I'm. So. I'm good. I'm an athlete. I work out a lot. You know, I'm. Yeah, I'm hoping to make it a long time because I'm an older dad and I want to see my daughters through as far as possible.

[C]

Well, they're going to need you. The country's going to need you. The show's going to need you. I wanted to get talk about being an old dad, because I feel you on that one, and I want to talk to you about all things Trump, the state of the country, but also congratulate you, man. I mean, you came on the show, I think, right before the book was ready to come out. In my time of dying, I don't know if it's a bestseller or not, but it's everywhere and you've been everywhere, so congratulations on that. It seems like the book has been really received very well and a lot of people feel like they're dying right now. So I think we're gonna need to talk to you and get this perspective.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I thank you. Yeah, it was a bestseller for a while, and it's still, still out there. Hudson Booksellers picked it as their number one nonfiction book of the year, and Barnes and Noble did something similar. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's still, it's got currency. And, you know, I, I almost died. I saw my, I'm an atheist. My father was an atheist and a physicist, which is like atheist squared. And as I was dying, he, you know, appeared above me to welcome me. And I woke up in the ICU the next day. And when I was informed that I'd almost died, I really, it got me to thinking about a lot of things that, you know, I felt like I didn't understand something basic about reality and consciousness and the universe. And so my. It's a short book, but it's about that experience and what the possible explanations might be for what is called an nde, a near death experience. They're very, very common. So that's the essence of the book. And yeah, it's still out there and.

[C]

Doing its thing, and I recommend everybody check it out. Makes a great stocking stuffer. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see my tree is half done. We're getting there, but it's holiday times. Trump takes office in a little over a month. You've got this perspective that you've been asked to expand upon on every basically media platform under the sun. But after going through that experience and last time you came on here, you warned us about the similarities you see with Trump and fascism. It's all come together now. But you're a guy who also kind of understands deeply this country. I think you understand democracy, I think you understand grievance. You understand a lot of the elements that surround Trump and this moment in America. So can I ask you to use all that wisdom and perspective and kind of give us a sense of where the hell you think we are right now as a country? As we go into the holidays and face all these daunting challenges and changes. What do you make of it all, Sebastian?

[B]

Well, yeah, that's a long conversation. I'll start in, and at the point where I start to get tedious, please jump in and stop me. Okay. So I'll just put it that way because it's an unending conversation. So just for clarity and transparency, I'm a Democrat, I'm an atheist, right? And as a journalist, I try to be very neutral. I truly, although I happen to be liberal, classified as a liberal, I believe that a basic liberal outlook and a basic conservative outlook are equally legitimate. And they actually, in dynamic tension with each other, create quite a healthy society. And in fact, there is considerable evidence that those two basic political philosophies are rooted in our genetics, they're a product of our evolution, and that they're both adaptive. And so. And we are humans, are basically 50, 51 or the other, right? So that is my starting point as a journalist. We need both responsible versions of both. And I do not think we have responsible versions of both. I'll start with the sins of the Democrats, which are numerous. This should have been an easy one, right? I mean, Trump, even his supporters acknowledge that he exemplifies and a kind of harsh authoritarian viewpoint and intention which is at odds with the spirit, at least the spirit, if not the letter of our founding documents, our founding fathers visions, right? I mean, even supporters of Trump acknowledge it's a little unseemly to wish that you had Hitler's generals because they were loyal, right? It makes everyone a little uncomfortable, right? But on the. So running against someone like this, this should have been easy for the Democrats, right? We should have been able to defeat him in our sleep. And one of the things I hate most about the Democrats is their willing embrace of the victim position and their accusations that things are being done to them, right? How could this be done to us? Well, you know what? When in both, in Hillary and Kamala, we had wonderfully smart women who weren't that great, weren't particularly charismatic in, you know, in front of a microphone, but they had a lot to recommend them, but they just sucked as candidates, right? I mean, Kamala and I voted for it, but Kamala looked great compared to Biden and Trump. That's a terrible context to look great in. If Biden, who I have some real fondness for, but also huge disappointments in, if he had done as he said and stepped down after the first term, we would have had a proper primary, I do not think Kamala would have won a proper Democratic primary. And so what we, we ended up with this sort of pinch hitter at the last moment because Biden was ultimately selfish in his insistence that he run, even though I think he kind of knew he couldn't, couldn't succeed and, or maybe he didn't know that, and then he's delusional, but whatever, like that, he did that to us, right? And then on top of it, the left wing, you know, forgive me if I'm like, treading on any ground or anything, but what has come forward? I mean, the left wing used to be the party of sort of like working people in the Midwest, the Rust Belt. I mean, back in the 40s and 50s, the Democrats were the party of the, of the, of the working class, right, Unionize, fight the corporations, right. Like that, like that. That used to be what the left was. And we've become incredibly elitist. We have walked away from those people and their concerns. They had nowhere to go but Trump, who welcomed them, of course, and, and, and, you know, played, you know, I think played to their, to their fears and their trauma and their anger and, and finally, and I'll sort of end with this, what has taken the place of those honorable and solid concerns for working people, what has filled the vacuum in the left wing ethos are, in my opinion, very, very abstract concerns about bathrooms and gender and men playing on women's sports teams and stuff. Stuff that just, like, in a very narrow context, perhaps there's some legitimacy. I wouldn't want any trans person to suffer any sort of prejudice whatsoever anywhere in their life. Like, I wouldn't want anyone to. Right? But making that those kinds of issues, the tentpole issue for the Democratic Party, going into an election like this, you're just going to lose an awful lot of people, including a lot of left wing people who just do not connect to those ideas. And even if they kind of abstractly agree with them, they might not think this is the foremost and most important issue we are facing in America today is men playing on women's soccer teams. Like, we just, even if we think that's maybe okay, which I personally don't, it certainly isn't the primary issue the world is facing. Give me a frigging break. Right? So, so we set ourselves up for this and, you know, ultimately it's. And then finally, and then I really will end finally, the sort of narrative of like, the patriarchy is one once again. Right? Trump's percentage of the women's vote increased by 4% from 2020 to 2024 when there was a woman on the ballot. Right. 4% more women voted for Trump this time around. Huge gains in the Latino population and the black population. So. And, you know, gender issues and race issues happen to be our things. By our. I mean, the liberal, the sort of liberal. The liberals. Right. The Democrats, those happen to be our darlings. We flatter ourselves in thinking that those are the two issues that we care about most and take care of most, and the fact that we lost percentage points, I mean, significant margins of voters to Trump from those two camps, people of color and women. Like, if we can't take that information and say we have gone off the trail somewhere, if we can't own this as a flaw, as a fault, as a mistake of our own, then we will never win another election, and nor.

[C]

Would we deserve to, which might happen the way this is going. Right. I mean, I want to pull something out specifically. Sebastian, I think you are uniquely positioned to talk about. There is a discussion in this country about masculinity and about the intersection of masculinity and patriotism and toughness. And I think that that has been really underappreciated. Right. I mean, what we're talking about often is a man running against a woman. Right. And that's been the case.

[A]

Right.

[C]

We have these examples. Right. But it's much more complicated than that. It has to do with the disconnect and a failure to understand, I think, like, basic American toughness and even the American DNA. And you have been in a unique position because you've written about these things, you've talked about these things, you've explored these things, and you went on Joe Rogan. Right. And I think that that's a great example of how badly they missed. Right. Because I don't think. Not only did she not go on Joe Rogan, I don't think the party understands Joe Rogan. Right. And there's a lot about Joe Rogan that should concern people. The conspiracy theories, the other stuff. But just the magnitude of him, right? The 11 million listeners versus maybe half a million on an average show on MSNBC or cnn. The scope, the scale, the devotion. Can I ask you to talk about what do you think Joe Rogan is? Right. What does he represent? Is he the next Rush Limbaugh? Is he something different? Can you put him and his power and his influence and his rise, even in some kind of broader context, and just take us inside. What was it like to go in the place where Trump went and Kamala did?

[B]

Yeah. And let's circle back to masculinity. As well, after we do this, because I think it's an important piece of the puzzle. But so I don't, you know, I have a flip phone. I don't listen to podcasts. So all I know about Joe Rogan is my experience with him personally. Right. And whatever, whatever I read. So, yeah, some of his conspiracy theories are unfortunate as they are unfortunate for all people. Right. And there's lots of left wing conspiracy theories as well. They're just nonsense. Right. And you know, one of them being that the patriarchy stole the election from Hillary Clinton and from Kamala Harris. That's a, that's a conspiracy theory. There's no data to back it up. Right. So, so other than that, Joe himself, he's extremely personable, he's forthright in his opinions, but he will also, let me say, a rare and wonderful trait. He will also, if corrected about something, if he sees that he's wrong about something, he will immediately concede. Right. He's, I mean, he does not sort of stand, you know, stand. Plant his flag and stand on an absurdity. Right. And I can't remember what this. A couple of times he said something, I said, you know, actually that's not true because of this. And I can't remember the issues, but it's happened twice.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And he immediately was like, oh, wow, I hadn't thought about it that way. Yeah, cool. You know, I mean, there was just zero, zero issue. Right. And that to me, someone who has an alive and active mind, and those are the kind of people I prefer to talk to and, you know, either left wing or right way. I don't care if you're in that. If you're willing to sort of like stand corrected and reevaluate what you think, you know, I'm in, man, I'll talk to you all day long.

[C]

But so there's a Venn diagram of like, you're talking about near death experiences.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You're a guy who's been to Afghanistan and all over the world. You're a tough guy. And then, you know, there's the, the Rogan audience. So can, can I maybe just ask you to pull that apart a little bit? Because I think there's a lot of overlap between the people that I talk to, the people that you talk to, the people that Rogan talks to. And, and they feel like an un. They felt like an unrepresented group in the political discussion. I think some of that fueled Trump's win. I think some of that fuels the pushback against the Democrats. But I think it's also bigger. It's kind of a pushback against everything. It's kind of a middle finger to the establishment that I feel in a lot of what you write and talk about. But you're able to capture. Ken Burns called it grievance. What do you call it? This energy that is captured a bit by Rogan, by Trump, by some of your work and mine. What do you call it?

[B]

Well, I feel like he's collected a lot of people who are sort of contrarian because it makes them feel smart and powerful, right. On a podcast recently with a wonderful woman named Jillian Michaels, right? And she's. Right, so she's pretty popular and she's got it, you know, she's, she's not a female Joe Rogan, but where there's some overlap, they're friends and there's some overlap in the listenership. And so I was looking at the comments and you know, Jillian brought up Ukraine and some sort of right wing, you know, chew toys, right? And I had what I think is a sort of rational, sort of rational conversation about what, what the stakes really are and what the issues really are here. And in the comments, there was some dude, he was like, yes, Ukraine, a sovereign country that he's clearly a paid asset. I'm like, wow, your life must be frigging easy, bro. Like if, if things are that simple. Like I, because I said something that you didn't agree with. I'm a paid assets, like what's your life like if you ever get out of your parents basement, like, what is your life like? Right? So I think there's a certain amount of that in the, in the demographics that listen to some kinds of podcasts and Joe Rogan particularly. And, but let's, so let's, let's see. And I think a lot of them are male. A lot of those people are male. And so let's see what's going on with, if we may, with men for young men for a moment, right. In this country. Because I feel like Trump, Joe Rogan, there are people who have inherited a sort of disenfranchised and lost and ultimately powerless group of young men who are looking for a home and looking for a way to feel powerful as we, as we all do, right? We all home and to feel powerful. And these young men, you know, they're trying, they're looking for their leader, right? And so I was, I was at a dinner party, I got a high level dinner party with some, you know, people I won't name that you would know Their names, right? And it was all very genteel and liberal and polite, lovely people, great food, et cetera, et cetera, right? At one point, because I'd, like, been with American soldiers, someone was like, so you understand young men, why. Why are they all flocking to Donald Trump, right? And I said something like, I'm going to say this better now than I said at the time, because I'm not a very quick study. But, you know, basically what I said to them was, are you really asking me why the party that came up with back in the 80s when I was in college, all sex is what a lovely slogan, right? Followed up with toxic masculinity, male privilege. Like the, the party, the political establishment that came up with those ghastly slogans, right? That they are losing male voters like you are. Are you really proposing that a party that comes up with this stuff and has it as one of its tent pole issues that, like, that might not alienate some young men who actually don't feel that all sex is rape, do not feel that masculinity is inherently toxic, Right? If there's toxic masculinity and femininity, then we can have those conversations. But that's not what happened, right? And those people came perilously close to basically saying masculinity is by definition toxic. Right? And you know, finally, white male privilege, like, I'm sorry, there's coal miners in Kentucky who are not on, you know, they're not, they're not on top of anything, right? I mean, except the slag heap, right? Outside a coal mine, right? Like, tell me, tell me that those guys, you know, that that coal miner in Kentucky has more privilege legally, economically, politically, culturally than a woman of color graduating Yale Law School. Like, try to tell me that, right? You know, it's nonsense. And the left wing will not have a conversation about class, socioeconomic class. They will not do it because we're in a, we've become an elitist institution. It's the one, the one bias is, the one thing that predicts poor outcomes in this person's life is education and social class. And the left wing will not have that conversation. So Joe Rogan came along and he's like, as rightfully and rightfully so, he said, look, maleness isn't inherently toxic. In fact, it has some very valuable attributes that all societies need, right? Ditto femaleness. Like, we can have that conversation. But Joe Rogan and some other people associated with the sort of libertarian right wing came along to harvest these people. And you know what? It's on the left wing that we didn't provide an honorable and thoughtful home, ideological home for young males. We greeted them with toxic masculinity. So, like, sorry, that's what happens when you do that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's, I think the way, the way you're unpacking it is really, really important because the country is still kind of behind this, right? And now you see, you kind of saw the Democratic Party even maybe overcompensate with somebody like Tim Walsh, right? They try to pick Tim Walsh and he's kind of like a softer, nicer version of a Republican right wing guy, right? And now you're seeing the Democratic Party very quickly, guys like Seth Moulton, right, that, you know, Marine from, from Massachusetts has got an op ed saying, here's what's wrong with the Republican Democratic Party. Pat Ryan, another veteran from New York, another white guy, right? There's that kind of this rush of white guys to go to the top. And there are a lot of white guys who haven't felt like they were in leadership positions in the Democratic Party. Which kind of takes me to where we are now, where most people, I think, are still saying fuck both of them, right? And there's a big part of that in Joe Rogan's audience and your audience and mine, people who just want none of the above. But we've also got standards. And it's happening at a time where Trump is putting forward the most insane and radical cabinet nominees we've ever seen, right? A Navy secretary, it's never been in the Navy. An undersecretary who's never been in the military and who's a defense contractor, essentially. And now we've got Pete Hegseth who may be out by the time this, this drops. You know, if you don't know Pete Hegseth, you know, guys like him, right? And you, you've seen this happen over the last 20 years, especially veterans who've become more radicalized. And I think that Hegseth has become radicalized. What do you make of him specifically? And again, he might be down by the time this drops, but he's, he's ascended very quickly. You know, he comes from that world of podcasts and Joe Rogan and masculinity, and he could be Secretary of Defense despite all of his issues and challenges.

[B]

I mean, Trump's, you know, Trump is running a TV show basically, right? And I feel like he, with the occasional exception, I think his tendency is to put forward good looking white men to run things, right? He just, I think he just likes the visuals of it. Right. And I don't know the man's mind. I'm just saying this because of what, you know, the names that have come up. So. And I don't know. Hegseth, his defense of essentially an American war criminal, the SEAL team leader, Galloway. Gallagher. Gallagher, absolutely revolting. I mean, that should have no part, no part in a democracy in this United States saying that, you know, Guantanamo, we missed a chance. Something like it should have been the place where we could torture people into confessions and then execute them. Hegset said something around, you know, something around that idea, if I'm not mistaken. Absolutely revolting. Those are not Democratic sentiments. I reject them. I abhor them. But let me just say. Let me just say about the radicalism in Trump's vision here. So H.L. mencken, wonderful writer from mid century, he has this wonderful quote, and he was asked about democracy, and he said, oh, democracy. The idea that the American public knows what's best and gets it given to them good and hard, right? So that's what's happening. And part of me is like, okay, you all voted for this guy, right? The last time around, he was. We were protected. He was himself protected from his worst instincts by having Democratic Democrats in government and by having institutional guardrails and institutionalists in these departments who kept things, you know, guys like Kelly, who kept things roughly, like, roughly on the road, right? We didn't drive into a ditch because we had guardrails like that, Right? Bill Barr, I mean, who I'm not a fan of, but even he was a guardrail. Like, who knew that you could be that extreme? And a guardrail, like, that's the new world. So now what I kind of love about this is because I'm tired of Republicans, Republicans telling me, telling Democrats the problems. You guys, right? We have this. We have the solutions. If you'd only let us run the country. You know what? You are now running the country, right? And you voted for this guy. And he's a quasi fascist authoritarian, but you voted for him. So let's find out how it goes, shall we? Let's find out once and for all how authoritarian the American public really is, how much stomach we actually have for his ultimate fantasies when they are Trump's fantasies. Like. And so I kind of love, in a way, the more extreme these people are, the more I kind of love it because we are finding out right now, like, what? I want to know if. I think, if I'm worried I have cancer, I want to know. I want to I want to do a PET scan, and I want to see. I want to know right now, do I or not? Right. And I feel like right now we're at the pets, the PET scan phase of this process. Will the country adhere to its democratic principles or are we going to go the full authoritarian, extremist route? And you know what? I think if it does that, and it may well, I think it's going to collapse. I think the Republicans do very well when they have an enemy. They no longer have an enemy because the Democrats are totally out of power. I think the extremism of his visions and the sheer incompetence of many of these nominees will sink almost every initiative that Trump wants to make happen. Right. I think. And even the stuff that he does, and I'll end with this, the stuff that he does make happen, I think will have. I have read, we'll have massive economic and political blowback, like the tariffs, inflation's going to be a disaster that goes to the. Deporting 10 million people like you do, all that stuff. The consequences are catastrophic. And I think the blowback will be catastrophic. So basically, it's like, all right, fuck around and find out. Let's find out. Let's see how this works. And if it doesn't work, let's move on to a new era where both the left wing and the right wing are, like, firmly put in the. In the, like, garbage disposal, in the stink fed, in the sink, fed through the machinery, washed out of our system. And we come up with some new visions for both parties.

[C]

Well, you are a guy who's comfortable sleeping in the dirt with no electricity. So that might be what we have to endure in order for that to happen.

[A]

Right.

[C]

You're going to stick around, Sebastian, for a couple of extra questions for our Patreon members. I want to thank them for their support and for helping us bring Sebastian back for, I think, a record fourth time.

[A]

Let me.

[C]

You know, you kind of said, there's the old Batman line, this town needs an enema. Right? And, like, maybe that's what's going to happen here. Maybe. You know, I don't know if he is. If he is going to go through our system or if he's going to destroy our system. And I guess what I want to ask you is, with all of this looming, I'm going to talk more about this in the days to come, but there's very likely a scenario in January where he tries to activate and federalize National Guard units. And then governors say no. Right. And there are Legal battles, unprecedented degrees of, of struggle, where our troops are maybe chew toys like we've never seen before. Right? They used to be political chew toys in Iraq, but now they may be political chew toys here at home. I hope that one day you write like a sci fi or dystopian movie because I think it would be awesome. But give me your no shit. And this is not the time to sprinkle sunshine. How bad do you think it's going to get? Because you understand this, you have a good feel for the country. You've seen other parts of the world. We saw what happened in South Korea this week. You know, that can go a lot of different ways. Before we go through that, if it goes along the ways you're saying, I always want to talk about not just what's happening, but what's next. How bad do you think it's going to get in the next three months, Sebastian? Next six months?

[B]

Not that. Honestly, not that bad. I mean, the one thing, that, one of the few things that unites both the left and the right is an abhorrence of misuse of state power, of federal power. Right. Both the left, the hippies on one side and the libertarians, the sort of paranoid right wing on the other side, they hate when the federal government or the state imposes its will on the people, right? So if you have National Guard troops arrayed against civilians implementing whatever, whatever agenda it is, I mean, it's a Kent State situation or it's rounding up illegal migrants who are working and working hard in businesses that actually can't afford to pay what they would have to in, in a country that enjoys a fairly low unemployment rate, you know, etc. Etc. I mean, you have national, you know, 19 year olds with M16s in the streets arrayed against the populace. I don't think that's a right wing, that's not a visual that the right wing's particularly thrilled with either. Even if those policies are ones that they kind of agree with. Right. Like, I, I just don't really, I don't see that going very far. And I think it would be an extremely dangerous thing for Trump to try to implement. I can't imagine any general or any officer and most soldiers obeying an illegal order for the use of force within the 50 states of this country or somewhere else for that matter. I just don't, I just don't see the professional army doing that. My connect, you know, my sort of reference point is fascism in Spain. My father grew up in Spain. They left when Franco came In. And in that case, a lot of the army did sign on to the fascist agenda, and that's why Franco won the Civil War. I cannot imagine. Other. Other than. Flynn. Other than Mike Flynn. Yeah, Mike Flynn. General Flynn. Other than him. I think most generals are incredibly aware of the Constitution and their Democratic duties and would never violate that oath. So I think Trump. Trump messes with that at his peril. I think. I think that's a big implosion for him if he tries to do that.

[C]

So you're giving folks, I think, a little bit of hope for folks who are worried this might all be on fire next time I talk to you. I appreciate that. I think your perspective is always incredibly valuable. I hope everyone will go out and check Sebastian's book. Go read everything he's written, and go check out Tribe. Go check out Restrepo, the film that was nominated for an Academy Award. I think that Sebastian is such an important and valuable voice and a conscience for our country. I've said that before. You live in New York. Will you run for mayor? How about everybody else is running for mayor? Why not you?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right.

[B]

No, I don't. I think I'd make a terrible politician.

[C]

I don't know. I mean, guys who would make terrible. You know, when I talk to you, anybody who listens to the show, you feel a little Dan Osborne there. You know, you feel a little bit of the populism, and I think that you get a lot of support, whatever you do. But in the meantime, thank you for joining us. Thank you for all you do for this country. Your work over the last 20 years plus, has been incredible, especially since I've been exposed to it. And I'm honored to call you a friend. And you're a tremendous, tremendous example of what's possible in this country and just always adding value. So your kids are lucky to have you. I wish you a very happy holiday. And keep talking about the other side, man, because we're going to need to talk about something else in the next couple of months.

[B]

Hey, thank you. I really. I always enjoy it. Thank you so much.

[C]

Thank you, brother. Stay vigilant.

[A]

All right, folks, that is the great Sebastian Younger. He is a man who continues to step up for America and for all of us and for the generations to come. He's a conscience, and I'm honored to call him a friend and so thankful to have him back on this show. He is truly a helper, a person who leads when others step aside. And we're going to need leaders like him more in the days to come than ever before.

[B]

Always look for the helpers.

[A]

There will always be helpers, you know, even just on the sidelines. If you look for the helpers, you'll know that there's hope. Look for the helpers. They are out there. And if you see them, shout me out, shoot me an email, send me a note, call us in on the phone line and use the hashtag look for the helpers. I want to hear about it. And also, especially if you're new here, go to IndependentAmericans US and check out our website. You can watch this entire conversation with Sebastian. Be sure to follow us on YouTube as well. We're continuing to post more content and you can check out Independent Americans Gear if you're pressed for what to get somebody for the holidays. Check out Independent Americans Gear and join our Patreon community. If you are a Patreon member, you are supporting this kind of content. You've helped us bring Sebastian to the masses four times now and you found out that Sebastian was our guest first. You're also going to get extra content with no commercials and you're going to hear the two amazing novels that he recommends. He also shares his favorite part about the holidays, how he thinks New York City is doing right now in the midst of the crime and migrant situation, and makes some great music recommendations. But that's only for our Patreon members. If you're one, you know about it. If you're not, go check out Independent Americans and you can sign up now. And as a reminder, you can call me. Call me anytime. Leave a voicemail message. Leave me your hometown and your name and I may play it on the show. Let me know what you thought of this episode with Sebastian Younger. Let me know what you thought of our recent episodes with Dan Osborne, with Barbara Starr, or who you want to hear in the days to come. Or just tell me your favorite things about this show, what you hate about this show, or what you'd like me to get you for the holidays. The number is 317-721-1718. That's 317-721-1718. Leave me a message and let me know what you think. Be sure to look for me weekly on News Nation Television and msnbc, usually on Wednesdays, but also on other days. Follow us on all social media, subscribe and share and continue to spread the word about independent Americans. Yes, it is the holidays. It's time for joy and a time for cheer. And two weeks from now, it'll be time for festivus and our annual episode with Jason Alexander. The famous and amazing actor from Seinfeld will be joining us again for our annual Festivus episode. So look forward to that. The holidays are a time also for family and for movies. And I have a recommendation beyond Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas, which if you're a longtime listener, you know about my love for we did a whole Emmet Otter inspired show. No, it's not Emmet Otter. It's something else. It's Wild Robot. Have you seen Wild Robot? If you have, you know that it is a soaring, beautiful, an inspiring masterpiece. It's a story about a robot that ends up in the wilderness and has to figure out how to survive. And the robot does it by being kind. It's my favorite animated film since Wall E and now one of my favorite family movies of all time. It's an instant classic that I think should be nominated not just for best animated feature, but for best picture. It is really the that good. And we can still be that good, all of us, especially around the holidays and especially before the storm hits. So be kind out there and stay vigilant and maintain your independence and know that our independent movement is the hope for the future. Country over party, people over politics, light over heat, busting the status quo and fueling a new movement that is continuing to span all across our society and growing, especially this holiday. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Sebastian Younger. If you did, please share it far and wide and invite others to declare their independence. And stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom and hope is the oxygen of democracy, something we're going to need more of, especially in the days to come. But we can spread now in this holiday season. It'll keep you vigilant. And no, you're not alone in your vigilance. We are all vigilant and we're all in this together, especially around the holidays. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for listening. Down with Hamas, down with Putin. Slava, Ukraine. Stay vigilant, America, and happy holidays.

[B]

What your country can do for you. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

[A]

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