311. Leo Shane III. The Legendary Military Times Reporter on Hegseth’s History and Rocky Nomination. Collins for VA Secretary—Who Is This Guy? Assad Goes Down. Musk and Ramaswamy Wanna Cut All Vets Benefits. Army Navy Week. Remembering Eddy Schrank.

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff

Episode 311: Leo Shane III. The Legendary Military Times Reporter…
Date: December 12, 2024
Guest: Leo Shane III, Military Times Reporter

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the shifting sands of U.S. national security, military and veterans' affairs, and Washington politics as 2024 draws to a close. Host Paul Rieckhoff and veteran military reporter Leo Shane analyze major headlines—from the historic fall of Syrian dictator Assad, new Trump administration nominees (especially the controversial picks for VA and Defense), to polarizing proposals to cut veterans’ benefits. The conversation is set against the backdrop of Army-Navy Week, with personal reflections and tributes to lost veterans, plus deep industry insights on the future of the VA.

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Major Discussion Themes

1. Historic Global Shifts

• Assad's Departure from Syria ([00:45])
  • After 13 years of civil war and over half a century of dictatorship, Bashar Assad flees Syria, ending his regime. American troops remain in harm's way as the power vacuum could be exploited by ISIS.
  • “At long last, the Assad regime has fallen... The people of Syria will determine their own fate.” —Paul Rieckhoff [01:45]

2. Veterans' Benefits Under Threat

• Musk and Ramaswamy’s Calls to Cut VA ([02:45])
  • Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy identified $119B in VA healthcare cuts as “savings.”
  • Rieckhoff slams these proposals as “radioactively bad politics—even for Trump.”
  • “If they try to come after veterans’ benefits, they’re gonna be in for a fight like they’ve never seen.” —Paul Rieckhoff [04:25]

3. Partisanship and Increasing Politicization

• Fractured Politics on Security and Public Safety ([07:51], [09:25])
  • Heated exchanges over 9/11 memorialization, the Hunter Biden pardon, and the Daniel Penny subway case illustrate how everything is “politicized”—with both parties out of step with most Americans.

4. Trump’s Nominees for DoD and VA: The ‘Culture War Cabinet’

• Pete Hegseth for SecDef ([26:18]–[38:00])

  • Analysis of Trump’s controversial pick—no Pentagon experience, deeply political, and a known “culture warrior.”
  • Leo Shane: “It is shocking to me to see that he got nominated for Secretary of Defense… Running the Pentagon is like nothing else. To put someone with no background in charge—it’s a real surprise, even for Trump.” [26:45]
  • Hegseth excels at media and confirmation battles but faces serious bipartisan doubts about his capacity to run DoD.
  • Possibility that Republican senators (like Joni Ernst) will bide their time, waiting for confirmation hearings or further scandals.

• Doug Collins for VA Secretary ([42:02]–[44:59])

  • Collins is a former congressman and military chaplain, but unknown to most in the VA space.
  • Concerns about his record: “He’s a strong conservative, voted against LGBTQ and women’s rights, not really known for veterans’ issues—a blank slate, but also very ideological.” —Co-host [43:13]
  • Veterans advocates are waiting to see, but expect him to continue or accelerate privatization.

5. Veterans Affairs at a Crossroads

• Privatization and the ‘Veterans Industrial Complex’ ([44:59]–[49:18])

  • Under Trump, the shift toward privatizing VA medical care accelerated and continues, albeit in more muted form, under Biden.
  • Shane: “A little over 25% of VA care appointments were outside VA pre-Trump; now it’s up to 40%. The Biden administration’s been less aggressive, but hasn’t reversed it.” [47:10]
  • The risk: losing VA’s unique expertise in “wounds of war,” PTSD, and military sexual trauma.
  • “If half of all medical appointments go outside VA, you’re just funneling billions… is that the most efficient way? And you risk dismantling what makes VA unique.” —Leo Shane [48:00]

• Would a Trump Admin Actually Cut Benefits? ([46:03])

  • Shane: “I’ll believe someone cuts the VA budget when I see it. No lawmaker wants to be the one who actually does.”

6. Denis McDonough’s Legacy as VA Secretary ([50:14]–[53:32])

• Shane: “Number one job was: don’t have a national scandal at VA. And he did that. Didn't have sexual harassment, wait-time, or management crises—just ran the ship steady and made VA more efficient and welcoming, especially for toxic exposure and new disability benefits.” [50:29]
• Co-host: “I’ve learned to stop grading VA Secretaries on a scale; it’s pass/fail. He passes because he’s still standing by year four.” [53:07]
• Noted improvements in transparency and proactive outreach to veterans.

7. Legislative Fights and Military Pay ([55:10])

• NDAA includes major pay raises for junior enlisted, but inclusion of transgender exclusion policies forces Dems into a tough spot.
  • “In April, a bunch of young troops see a pay raise; in the campaign, Trump hits Dems for not supporting it—even though it came packaged with poison pills.” —Leo Shane [58:17]

8. Army-Navy Week, Brotherhood, and Sports

• Army football’s resurgence and the power of the Army-Navy rivalry, including discussion on sports, recruiting, and cultural symbolism.
• Tribute to the late veteran Edward Schrank, emphasizing the episode’s grounding in service, legacy, and remembrance ([66:02]–[69:40]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Politicization:

  • “They say never forget, but ‘never forget’ is long gone. Everything will be politicized in 2025.” —Paul Rieckhoff [07:51]

• Hegseth’s Candidacy:

  • “He may be better suited for the confirmation battle than the job itself… He’s good at the fight. But what policies will he actually push? We have no idea.” —Leo Shane [31:05]

• Veterans’ Benefits Cuts:

  • “Nobody up on Capitol Hill wants to be the one to cut VA benefits. So I’ll believe it when I see it.” —Leo Shane [46:03]

• On Transitions and Privatization:

  • “Are you really just funneling money through VA at that point? That’s where the danger is.” —Leo Shane [48:00]

• On Legionaries Like Edward Schrank:

  • “He faced death over and over again, and showed us all how to live.” —Paul Rieckhoff [67:29]

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Key Timestamps

• [01:45] Assad’s fall in Syria and implications for US troops
• [04:25] Musk and Ramaswamy propose massive VA cuts
• [09:25] Politicization of high-profile events (9/11, Hunter Biden, Penny case)
• [26:18] Deep dive: Who is Pete Hegseth and why his SecDef nomination matters
• [31:05] Hegseth as a “fighter” but questionable executive for DoD
• [42:02] Doug Collins: unknown quantity, hard-right ideology, VA implications
• [44:59] Privatization: Veterans groups’ fears and data
• [50:14] Grading McDonough’s run as VA Secretary
• [55:10] NDAA: pay raises and the politics of military legislation
• [61:08] Army-Navy rivalry, recruiting, and sports as national service branding
• [66:02] Remembering Edward Schrank—sacrifice, legacy, and inspiration

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Tone and Language

The episode maintains Paul Rieckhoff’s trademark frankness, irreverence, and deep care for veterans’ issues. Leo Shane brings an insider's objectivity laced with subtle wit. The discussion is candid, direct, and skeptical of partisanship—anchored by palpable respect for service, country, and truth-telling in politics and media.

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Final Takeaways

• The fall of Assad is historic, but US veterans and service members remain in a dangerous and rapidly evolving environment.
• Both parties are out of touch with many Americans on key issues—especially when it comes to veterans.
• Trump’s controversial nominations signal a sharpened “culture war” focus, with real risks for the politicization of the DoD and VA.
• Veterans’ benefits and the future of VA care are not safe from privatization, though outright benefit cuts remain politically toxic.
• Behind every headline are real people making hard sacrifices—vividly remembered in the episode’s closing tribute.
• As always: Stay vigilant, stay engaged, and support those who serve.

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For Further Listening

Check out the extra Patreon segment for deep dives on Army-Navy, sports, and more from Leo Shane.
If you know a struggling veteran, reach out. Call 988 or the Veterans Crisis Line.

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“Country over party, people over politics… If you’re in the angry middle, you’re not alone.” —Paul Rieckhoff

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Go Army, Beat Navy.
Happy holidays—stay vigilant!

Transcript

[Paul Rykoff]

Power by righteous media.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

We want to talk right down to.

[Leo Shane]

Earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

Look in my eyes.

[Leo Shane]

What do you see?

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

The comfort of personality. I know you're anger.

[Leo Shane]

I know your dreams.

[Paul Rykoff]

Welcome to Independent Americans. Welcome to episode 311 and welcome to Army Navy Week. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Yes, the holidays are here and they're full of surprises. From what's happening in Syria to what's happening in Washington to what could happen on a football field this weekend, the holiday times are full of surprises. And this Army Navy Week especially is full of surprises. And that's why now, as we near the end of the year, it's especially a time to stay vigilant. What happened in the Middle East? After 13 years of civil war in Syria, more than half a century of brutal authoritarian rule by Bashar Assad and his father before him, rebel forces have forced Assad to resign his office and flee the country.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

We're not sure where he is, but there's worthy.

[Paul Rykoff]

He's in Moscow. At long last, the Assad regime has fallen. Now this is an early Christmas surprise that most in the world didn't see coming. The brutal Assad regime has fallen. Assad himself has fled to hide out with Putin in Moscow. And thousands of people are celebrating in the streets all across Syria and around the world. There's no telling what might happen next. But for now, one of the worst and most brutal and ruthless dictators of our time is out of power. And at least for now, the people of Syria will determine their own fate. But make no mistake, this is not disconnected from America, because right now we've got American troops in harm's way in Syria and conducting combat operations. They're hitting targets throughout the country and specifically targeting ISIS forces who could look to fill the gap. But this is a time of tremendous volatility and tumult. A time when leaders will fall and institutions will crumble. Hopefully not here at home, because there are some apparently that want to see America fall too. Because this is a special kind of coal in our stocking this Christmas. Check this out. Apparently Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy want to cut earned veterans benefits. Yes, believe it or not, this is true. You want to find a Grinch? Well, I got two of them. I know they call them earned benefits, but. Because that's how you get them for things like getting your leg blown off. But according to reporting this week by Steve Ratner, Musk and Ramaswamy have already identified $516 billion in government savings, including cutting all Veterans affairs health care, which would be $119 billion. Now, it's obviously a big ticket item, but it's also a cost of war. So if there was ever a time to play this song, it is now. Yeah, this Christmas. And in the year to come, Elon and Ramaswamy are going to be in for a fight like they've never seen if they try to come after veterans benefits. And because it's the holiday time and I'm in a generous mood, they're not gonna get just one song, they're gonna get two songs in this episode because they have been especially bad little boys and earned this more than maybe anybody this year. Hit it, Chris.

[Leo Shane]

I use public toilets.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yes. As we head into the holiday time, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, who want to propose to cut veterans benefits are definitely our assholes of the week. Now, I don't know if it's actually going to happen. And I'm going to predict now that Trump might not actually try to cut the VA budget. He doesn't want to be the first president in American history to do that. And we're going to hear more about that topic and others with a fantastic guest, Leo Shane, coming up in just a bit. But cutting veterans benefits is radioactively bad politics, even for Trump. Instead, I think he'll push to raise the VA budget, then he'll pat himself on the back for it, accelerate his unprecedented first term push to privatize VA and create the biggest private sector feeding frenzy we've ever seen since the Pentagon. After 9 11, it'll be the veterans industrial complex at astronomically high Trump levels with boondoggle like Cerner deals happening everywhere. Cerner was a technology company that got a no bid over 12 billion dollar contract to fix the electronic record keeping system at VA. And they haven't gotten it done, but they've definitely got paid. Now they'll argue this privatization will be better for vets and it'll undoubtedly and epically be better for their own profits. But follow the money people, especially with these guys and especially over the holiday times when these guys who are obviously not particularly focused on family, are going to be instead focused on radical agenda items like cutting veterans benefits. So this holiday, while you drink your eggnog and you watch elf for the 12th time, be sure to stay vigilant because this year especially, stakes is high. 5.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Yeah, vibrations. Stakes is high.

[Paul Rykoff]

You know them.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

Stakes is high.

[Paul Rykoff]

We talking about vibe vibrations. And as we get ready to wrap up this Year. And look ahead, what kind of year is 2025 going to be like in Washington? I think it's going to be this kind of year.

[Leo Shane]

Were you the special agent in charge of the detail that day? Actually let me address this. Could you please staff, leave that. Oh no, leave that one up with the circle around me. Thank you. So actually Congressman, what you're not seeing is the sack of the detail off out of the pictures view. And that is the day where we remember the more than 3,000 people that have died. On 911 I actually responded to Ground Zero. I was there going through the ashes of the World Trade Center. I was there at Fresh Kills.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I'm not asking you that.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

I'm asking you, Congressman, the same charge to show respect for our Secret Service.

[Leo Shane]

That died on 911 that you're trying to be.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

Do not invoke 911 for political purposes.

[Leo Shane]

Oh, I'm not. I'm invoking this gentleman. Gentlemen, I'd like to ask him a question. Please don't try to bully me.

[Paul Rykoff]

Now that's acting Secret Service boss Ronald Rowe Jr getting into an argument with Representative Pat Fallon for Fallon questioning him on going to a 911 memorial Trump event. Now that is nuts. They say never forget, but never forget is long gone. And never forget like everything else is going to be politicized and in 2025 everything is going to be politicized.

[Tim Scott]

Everything that these anonymous sources say these things without willing to go on, go on your show or some show and you know, have you asked them all these, all the questions?

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

A point that you're making here. The woman who accuses Pete of raping her in 2017, although the police, we should note, did not charge him with any crime. That woman, Pete Hegseth, paid her money and she signed a non disclosure agreement. So she can't come on my show to talk about it. Do you think Pete should release her from the NDA so that I can ask her the questions that you want me to?

[Tim Scott]

Absolutely not. There's so many, there's. Think about it, Jake.

[Leo Shane]

You know, absolutely or absolutely.

[Tim Scott]

Wait, wait, Jake, we know how many people sign non disclosures just to eliminate something. Not that they ever did anything wrong. And he was never, he was never, you know, never charged with anything.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Do you want me to ask her questions or do you not want me to ask her questions?

[Tommy Tuberville]

I'm confused.

[Tim Scott]

So, so I'm not going to suggest that somebody, you know, change, change a, a contract that they sign. But this is Trump's nominee, he won.

[Paul Rykoff]

That's Florida Republican Senator Tim Scott on CNN with Jake Tapper. And I think it's shameful and ridiculous, the worst, most desperate and sloppiest kind of political hackery. And good job on Jake Tapper for calling him on it. I gotta tell you a holiday secret. Far too many members of Congress are embarrassingly unimpressive. Scott is at the top of the list. He's an embarrassment to himself and to his state. But the embarrassment and the stupidity and the poor judgment and even the hackery is not confined to one party in particular. I talked last episode about how stupid and counterproductive and how much of an abuse of power I thought it was for President Joe Biden to pardon his son Hunter. And now we're finding out that most of America agrees with me because only 2 in 10Americans approve of President Joe Biden's decision to pardon his son. And yet again, Democrats are failing to understand or just blatantly disregarding where most Americans are on an issue. Biden is the out of touch leader for an out of touch party. And this is the stuff that hurts them more than they know, especially with independents. And in this week, it hasn't been the only issue because the other case that's become surprisingly partisan is the case involving Marine Corps veteran Daniel Penney, who was found not guilty in a chokehold death of Jordan Neely. Now look, I've talked about the crime situation and the threat situation in New York on this show for years. And I think most New Yorkers can relate to the fear of facing a threatening person in the subway. The threats are real and constant, especially on and around the trains. I think many vets especially can relate to Penny's desire to step up and protect others if the moment comes and we can all see that he may have taken it too far. But in the end, we weren't there and we didn't see all the evidence. And I trust that a jury of his New York peers came to the right decision. But some on the left are calling Penny a murderer, calling for him to be in prison, calling for vigilante justice. The same kind of nuts who were calling for praise on the dude who shot the CEO of United Healthcare. It's way off the deep end. But the growing bigger issue remains, is real, is bipartisan and is growing. New York City's subways and streets aren't safe enough. And that's true in lots of other cities around America, too. It's a real and rising problem. And here in New York, it's one of Mayor Eric Adams greatest failures. And the Number one challenge for any candidate for mayor who will run against Adams in New York and in countless cities nationwide is going to be tackling safety. And I'm waiting for a candidate to emerge here in New York City who can convince me that he or she can tackle it. And they'll have a unique opportunity to do it if they're an independent, because this time it will be ranked choice voting in New York. Now, the candidates have yet to all be declared, and an independent or two or three might jump in late. But watch this space, because New York could be the epicenter, not just for crime, not just for an election, but also for independence. But until then, when it comes to these situations, I have a pretty straightforward request, especially this holiday. Stay vigilant while you're out there and look out for each other.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I need some good news Send me a sipping on cold shoes Nobody knows.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

What I'm going through.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Wish someone told me Living this life would be lonely Trying to get away from the old me still stuck singing these blues All I really need is a little good.

[Paul Rykoff]

News and continue to watch out for maybe the most infectious thing of all, stupidity.

[Leo Shane]

Surprise, surprise, surprise.

[Paul Rykoff]

Because the stupid is bipartisan and infiltrating all of Washington. And, you know, if we're talking about the stupid, we can't overlook our friend, the most spectacularly stupid member of Congress of all, Senator Redneck Tommy Tuberville of Alabama.

[Tommy Tuberville]

Who are we to say that we're a better vetter and picker of people than Donald Trump?

[Leo Shane]

You're advising consent. That's your job.

[Tommy Tuberville]

Advising consent. But that's more the Democrats.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

But don't you think both sides should do the vetting?

[Tommy Tuberville]

Well, yeah, to some degree. I mean, but. But we have to be convinced. I mean, they should do all the background work. They should go after our nominees. I've not heard very little from the left. Donald Trump did all the vetting they needed to do on peak headset. And I just can't believe we even have people on our side. They're saying, well, I've got to look at this. Got to look at that. What they're doing is they're throwing rocks at Donald Trump. They're not throwing them at peak headset, they're throwing them at Donald Trump. Because they're saying, well, we don't believe you did the right vetting, and we don't believe he can do the job. Wait a minute. That's not our job to do that. That's the Democrats.

[Paul Rykoff]

Almost every week, he shows us that he is absolutely the single dumbest and hackiest member of the Senate. And that's saying something. He proves it day after day. He's an extremist, he's a hack, and he's an embarrassment to the office he holds. But most America wasn't paying attention to that. And most America is not paying attention to a lot of this stuff. News numbers are down. Cable news numbers are down. Readership is down. Folks are just overwhelmed and tired. And I get it. The holidays are here and college football's great, and the NBA cup thing is on, and hockey's great. But don't tune out, folks, because now is when we need America to pay attention. Should I pay more attention? I should be paying more attention to you. I should be paying more attention to you. I should be paying more attention to you. I should be paying more attention to you smoking mirrors. Because while most Americans weren't paying attention, Donald Trump named his army secretary nominee. Trump has nominated Daniel Driscoll to be the next army secretary. He's a North Carolina native who served in the army and deployed to Iraq with the 10th Mountain Division. He completed Ranger school, and he has a background in a venture capital and private equity firm and recently worked as a senior advisor to Vice President J.D. vance. Well, at least he's a vet, unlike Trump's nominee for Navy Secretary, who we'll also talk about with Leo Shane coming up. But he's a Trump loyalist, of course. But at least he is a vet. And it's my hope that veterans will uniquely understand our national security situation and the attacks on our democracy that are happening here and abroad and daily, hourly by the minute, in Ukraine. And while most Americans weren't paying attention, the US on Saturday announced a new $988 million military assistance package for Ukraine. This is absolutely vital. Biden has done a lot of things wrong, and I think he's done the drip, drip, drip, mother, may I thing with Ukraine for far too long. But in these final days of his presidency, he has to drain the tank and provide every Christmas miracle he can to the people of Ukraine. They are struggling and fighting and dying right now in the snow and mud. There's no real Christmas in Ukraine this year, but there is a fight and we've got to stand with them now more than ever before. And we've got to pour it on. Especially with Damascus falling. Now is the time to pour it on. And now is also the time to pour on the support for independents. After this election, especially, more and more Americans are looking for independent options. They're looking for none of the above. And they're looking for independent candidates. And there was news this week. Mayor Mike Dugan is launching an independent campaign for governor of Michigan.

[Leo Shane]

Michigan.

[Tim Scott]

And assure real improvement in a way that respects the voice of parents in their children's education. I'm not running to be the Democrats.

[Paul Rykoff]

Governor or the Republican's governor.

[Tim Scott]

I'm running to be your governor. So if you and your neighbors are tired of the politics of conflict and want to have a serious conversation about real change, please invite me to your community. It's a big state. It'll take me time to get, get everywhere, but I'll work really hard to get to know you and your problems.

[Leo Shane]

And give you a chance.

[Paul Rykoff]

Duggan is the first major independent candidate to declare for 2026, but he will be the first of many. We continue to recruit independent veteran candidates and I hope if you're one of them, you will reach out to us at Independent Veterans of America. We are looking for men and women to run in areas small and big in 2025 and in 2026, because I continue to believe and so many of you have responded to the fact that veterans can be hope for the future. They're not alone in that regard, but they are leading the way.

[Leo Shane]

I was raised by the wolves. I was raised by the wolves.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Apes.

[Paul Rykoff]

It's Army Navy Week and it's a good reminder of the sacrifices that so many of our men and women in uniform make. It's the only game where every single player on the field is willing to die for every single player on the other side. And it's also a reminder that as the holidays come, thousands of our men and women will be deployed overseas and around the world. And they represent the truth, justice and integrity that we will require in the days to come more than ever before in our lifetime. And that's why it is such a pleasure to have on this show to round out the end of 2024 and look ahead to 2025. One of the best, most dedicated, most tireless journalists in America, the intrepid, the legendary Leo Shane. For decades, Leo Shane has been leading the charge to cover the Department of Veterans affairs, veterans issues, the Department of Defense, the intelligence community, and all things surrounding our men and women in uniform. He's kind of like a journalistic Santa Claus that every single year delivers when almost nobody else does. When nobody else would report on the backlog on suicide, on military sexual trauma, on problems at the va, Leo Shane was there. He's also a very cool, down to earth dad and unfortunately an Eagles fan. But he's going to give us an insight into Pete Hegseth. He's the journalist that might know Hegseth better than almost anyone in America because he's covered him. He's also going to talk about the new VA secretary, Doug Collins. We're going to grade the current VA secretary, Denis McDonough, who's now been there four years. And we're going to talk a little about the Eagles, Juan Soto and Army Navy. It's a great way to help us end the year and prepare for a very different change of pace next week with Jason Alexander in our annual Festivus episode. But this is a time to get serious and stay focused before the holidays really hit. So welcome to a conversation with about all the most important things that are happening this holiday season. Welcome to a conversation with one of the best journalists in America. Welcome to Army Navy Week. Welcome to Independent Americans, episode 31 1.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Ladies and gentlemen, Independent Americans. Around the country and around the world, the holidays are in full swing. The politics is nonstop, and especially the national security veterans and intelligence stuff is at the forefront. So before you go on holiday break, before you check out, we have a very special guest, a man I've wanted to get on the show for a very, very long time, a legend in journalism and especially in the veterans journalism world. The great and powerful Leo Shane is finally on Independent Americans. Welcome, sir.

[Leo Shane]

Thank you for the invite. I snuck downstairs in the Capitol here, so I'm a little overdressed for the podcast, but I think we'll push through.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

You look very sharp for an Eagles fan.

[Leo Shane]

So I, I was gonna bring my big scarf on, but I said, no, no, no, I'll wait till the second appearance. I'll be nice because, you know, well.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

We got a lot to talk about. I want to talk about Saquon and Soto and Army Navy, but before that, I want to talk Hegseth and Collins and maybe some NDAA and what's happening in Washington. But, like, why have you not been on the show before? I've had this show for five years. Why haven't you been on sooner? I take full responsibility. But what's your name?

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

It's.

[Leo Shane]

Yeah, I mean, look, it's, it's because I avoided your calls for years when you were doing veterans advocacy, so clearly I just kept it up when you, when you switched over to the podcast. So I don't know, maybe because it's been quiet. There's been no, no major scandals for VA in the last few years. It actually, this has actually been surprising to Me and you know, credit to the Biden administration, VA hasn't been on fire recently, and.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Let'S talk about that too, because that's kind of what McDonough was put in there to do is to make sure there were no fires and keep it quiet and out of the news. Right?

[Paul Rykoff]

Maybe, but.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

But let's go through all of it. And I set the stage a bit in the intro, but I think it's really important. Like number one, I'm really grateful to have you on the show and there's never been a better time to have you on than right now for the first time. But you are without a doubt the most respected guy in this space for as long as I've been doing it 20 years, you know, you've been on the veterans beat and the intersection of national security and intelligence. You know this stuff. And there were a lot of times when nobody else was covering VA and you were single handedly covering it. So I think you're really the perfect guest to have on, given the all of it. You're also probably the guy who knows Hegseth better than me, right? I mean, those of us in the veteran space, we know Pete Hegseth. We've been working with him, against him, alongside him. For me, it's been almost 15 years, I think. But you've been covering him when he was at Vets for Freedom, when he was at Veterans for Common Sense. He's a force in the space because of his platform on fox. So let's start there, if we can. I mean, on a very, very macro level, what do you make of the Hegseth nomination? You've seen every nomination in recent time for both VA and dod. Can you talk about kind of the historical context and how unusual a pick like this might be relative to others?

[Leo Shane]

Yeah. Well, first off, thank you very much for the comments. It's a very nice way of saying that I'm getting very old and that I've been hanging around for a long time. So. And you're right, I have known Pete Hegseth quite some time. Not saying that we hang out and have drinks or anything, but he has been around. It was not a surprise for me to see that he was going to have a role in this administration. You knew that he had close ties to Trump. You knew that he was gonna find some position there. It is shocking to me to see that he got nominated for Secretary of Defense. I mean, this is not just a position that you have to be vetted for, but probably one of the positions you have to be the most vetted for this is one that, you know, really gets a lot of extra scrutiny, gets a lot of extra attention and is the largest agency in, in the government. So to take someone who hasn't had any experience in that, and that's not to downplay any of his military background or what he's done leading these other organizations, but there's, there's nothing like running the Pentagon out there. And to have someone who really has none of that background to put them in charge and to put them in charge with some of the stuff we knew. Whether or not you believe everything that's coming out, he's refuted a lot of these allegations. But I think everyone who's known him for a while knew that he was the kind of person who was gonna have a lot of skeletons in the closet that he was gonna have to talk about. And that's the kind of person that might end up as a chief of staff, might up in some non confirmed thing. It's a position where really that you don't have to go through some of this public scrutiny on the same level. And you're not, you're not going and talking to senators about your private life, talking about your past affairs, talking about things like this. So by the same token, I've tried to learn not to be shocked by anything that the Trump administration does, that Donald Trump does. I mean, we lived through this for four years. He announces appointments in the middle of the night. He seems to pick people based on how he's feeling on a given day. That's not to say they're totally unqualified or totally qualified. It just isn't anything that is predictable at this point. So, so that, that's been the real thing. You know, all the, all the stuff that we've heard about a Pete and his qualifications, why, why Trump wants him in there. You know, you can have folks who are out of the mainstream, you can have folks that don't have this, but do still have some relevant experience, do still have some, some better background with large organizations. I mean, he, look, Trump has put a bunch of, of businessmen into key military positions for nominations. Now it makes sense with his background, makes sense with what he's selling, but it feels like the kind of thing where a traditional Republican would have taken, you know, a general who's off the beaten path, or at least someone who's a colonel, somebody who's got that background to get in there. So that's, you know, on top of, on top of all of the allegations that have Come out on top of all the fights we've seen. That's. That's been the biggest surprise for me with this nomination. Yeah.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

And he has no relationships in the Pentagon. Right. Like, usually you've got someone who served in one of the branches or is, you know, it's been a member of the Senate. Right. I mean, so this is kind of, in my view, it's like a political Hail Mary for Trump or, you know, or he's feeling himself and he wants to push the pace. And he's like, I'm taking a big shot. I'm going for the biggest spot in the federal government with the biggest shot I can, the biggest reach. Right. In terms of experience, in terms of potential exposure or disqualification. But there's another side of this, too, that you've seen. He's very good at this fight thing. Right. And he's kind of built for this new media moment because, you know, even right before we got ready to tape, he's tangling with ProPublica, who, you know, apparently reached out to confirm whether or not he had gone to West Point. He provided documentation or was accepted to West Point. He provided documentation and said, I went to West Point. And ProPublica is trying to. The left wing, ProPublica is, you know, trying to smear me. And they come back and say, no, we're reporting. But I think I want you to react to that. But the bigger issue is that Hegseth is a known quantity in the space because he's really been an instrument of the Trump administration and the right wing on Fox News on these issues, but more so on VA issues. Right. I mean, he was, you and I were talking four years ago because he was rumored to be a VA secretary nominee. He ultimately went with Ronny Jackson, and then he went with Shulkin, and then he went with Wilkie. But every time people would say, well, what about Hegseth? And usually the reaction was, well, he's been pretty public about his messy personal life and he probably won't want to be vetted. So he's going to be chief of staff. He's going to be press secretary. But can you talk about, I think especially folks on the left are dismissing him, but he's very effective in terms of pushing a message and being a political instrument for a cause and for an agenda. So can you talk about that element of this?

[Leo Shane]

Yeah, look, I mean, it's interesting because he may be better suited for the confirmation battle than for the job itself. Right. Like, he is good to go out there. He's Good to have these fights. He's good to say the people, you know, the Democrats are blocking the president's will. And you know, this is, the liberal media is going after President Trump again. They won't let him get his people in there. But the question is if he, if he does, you know, if he does catch this car, well, you know, what's he going to do with it? You know, how does he, how does he run the organization? What actual policies do get. And I think that's going to be, I think that's going to be interesting because we've heard a little bit about some of this stuff. We've heard about the women in combat issue. We've heard about some of the getting rid of woke, but we actually don't know what his major policies are going to be. How is he going to increase lethality? That's what he said. He wants to increase lethality. So what is, what does that mean? Does that mean getting rid of more folks? Does that mean additional trainings? That mean plus the budgets? We don't, we don't have a lot of those details. What we do have is the, is the fight right now. So I think at this point it's pretty clear he'll at least make it to the confirmation hearings. And that wasn't clear two weeks ago or three weeks ago. A lot of back and forth, a lot of fights. We've heard Senator Ernst has come out now and she seems committed, maybe not to voting for him, but at least committed to getting him in front of the send Armed Services Committee, getting him into a January hearing where he says stuff. And then who knows? I mean, maybe after that he calms some folks. Maybe all of these meetings he's having, he gets enough. He doesn't, he doesn't need Democrat support. He doesn't need any, any Democratic lawmakers to back him. He just needs the Republicans to fall in line and make sure there's not two or three who defect there and get out of that. So, you know, you mentioned, you mentioned the VA angle and for, you know, as you said, he was rumored in the past to be in the va, but I wouldn't think he would be in the VA mix now. VA is not a, a big sexy popular one to be. People want to be in the Defense Department, people want to be in the other ones. But it's an interesting contrast between him and, and Doug Collins, the former congressman who was nominated there. Because I do think for, you know, Doug Collins also doesn't have a lot of experience in the, in the VA space. He doesn't have a lot. He was, he wasn't on the Armed Services Committee. He did serve as a chaplain and served in the reserves, is still serving in the Reserves, but, you know, had a different military experience. But he's someone who held an elected office. So he's been through some of this. He ran for Senate. He ran a congressional office for seven years. So there is a different level of understanding government, working with government. And I think most of the reaction to him has been this guy feels like a blank slate. We don't know where he's going to be, but he's got the relevant experience to run a federal bureaucracy. He's got the folks and can still fit into the Trump level of we're going to shake it up. We're going to, we're going to go into other things.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Well, to that point, too, Leo, I mean, and I want to, we'll bounce around a little bit. I was really anxious to get your reaction to Collins, and I want to go deeper on that because I think politically he's, he's, he's as if not more of an extreme pick than Hegset because you've got a voting record. You see, you know, he voted against the Defensive Women Act. He's voted against rights for LGBQ people. He's voted against abortion stuff. So, you know, with more clarity, where he's actually going to be, which is definitely far right of center relative to the middle. So you've got this kind of one, two punch. In my view of culture warriors who are going to hit the two largest agencies in the federal government, the culture of those two agencies and also kind of the star power of those two agencies.

[Leo Shane]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Which Trump has always uniquely understood that veterans are popular, veterans are kind of shielded from some of this. And he's done this with nominating Tulsi and nominating Lee Zeldin for epa. And a lot of these folks, he starts saying, well, he's a veteran now. He didn't pick a veteran to run the Navy, but for the most part, it's kind of a casting thing. So let me ask you to go back to Hegseth and ask you what, you know, it looks like Joni Ertz is going to be a key. I've talked about a lot. She's a combat veteran herself, a sexual assault survivor. But she's also been kind of humbled by the pressure in public from the right wing that says they're going to primary her. She's up for reelection next year. I said she would have been a much more viable candidate herself. You know, that made some people go nuts, but it seems like what the strategy is for her and others is I'm going to keep my powder dry. And not only are the confirmation hearings going to be critical, but the weeks between now and the confirmation hearings, I feel like any day now we're going to wake up to a new thing. And he's challenged whistleblowers. He said, come on out. So what's stopping a whistleblower from actually having that courage? Or even an ex wife? Right. His mother wrote an email that was published in the New York Times. So what are you hearing on the Hill and what are you hearing in the Pentagon? Do you feel like there is resistance and people want to stop this or they just want to kind of let it play out?

[Leo Shane]

Well, look within, within the Pentagon and within a lot of. There's, there's a lot of folks who say he's just not qualified. He doesn't have the background. We don't know what he's coming in with. This seems like a TV host who looks good on camera and all of a sudden is going to be in charge of $850 billion worth of operations. So. And that's the, that's the concern. That's the panic level is, you know, exactly, exactly what does he do? I think if you are someone like Joni Ernst, and again, you know, you could absolutely see her being nominated for this and sailing through, becoming the Secretary of defense and still carrying a lot of the same policies that that President Trump says he wants to have there. But there's just the level of understanding with her, again, having held elected office, understanding the bureaucracy, putting some work in, I think there'd be a different comfort level with her, a much higher one. But if you're her right now, you're in this awkward position of you don't wanna look like you're sabotaging this guy so you have a chance at the job. She is a party loyalist. I mean, she's not part of the attacks on her now is, oh, she's Rhino. She's a Republican name. Absolutely insane. This is someone who's been a defender of Trump. She was rumored to be a Trump VP pick, you know, eight years ago. So it's just, it's confounding to see that. But, you know, it's also, for someone like her, you don't wanna be reacting to just what the initial rumors are out there. There's no downside for her to have it go all the way to a confirmation hearing for him to be making this pitch over time to give Trump's nominee the chance to explain his positions and to talk about stuff and then see if he comes to the confirmation hearing and says something horrible, it's easy for her to say, hey, look, you all saw that. You all saw what he said. If there's whistleblowers who come out again, it's understandable why they don't want to come out right now, because just about all whistleblowers who tangle with Trump and Trump nominees end up having their personal information put out there and having their lives upended. So. But there may be some who are compelled and say, look, this is just too much. I can't, I can't stand back. You know, I've got to get out there and say this. So, so I think, I think there are a number of Republican senators at this point who are saying, all right, I've, I've got some, at least, at least behind the scenes, I've got some reservations. I don't know what to think of this guy. But there's no downside for me to wait a few weeks and to let him keep making the pitch, to let the President go out there and then see if the president turns on him. There may be, there may be some allegation that comes out where Trump's like, all right, look, even I can't deal with this anymore right now. What it would be at this point, there's a lot of stuff that's out there.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

But, Leo, who, who do you see as the Democratic lead on this? It feels like Tammy Duckworth is going to be the symbolic lead on this. I know Blumenthal has been one of the. But it doesn't feel like they have really figured out who the hell is in charge over there and who's going to lead the, the counter attack here against Higgs says so. You know, that being said, do you see anybody emerging and maybe even from outside of politics? You know, I'm curious to see if the Joint Chiefs are going to speak out, if the Mully, if Mullen's going to speak out, if Milley's going to speak out, is Kelly going to have a view on this? Right. Those are people who could potentially influence Susan Collins or Murkowski. And then at the end of the day, two questions as a part of that, too. Do you think he's, you know, are you betting on him to go through or not? And are there any other backups that you're hearing that haven't been mentioned? We've heard Ron DeSantis, we've heard obviously Joni Ertz. Are there other names that you think people should be tracking on if Hegseth does go down?

[Leo Shane]

Yeah, I mean, look, on the second question first on the backups, we've heard Ernst name. We've heard DeSantis, his name. After that, every time I try and give a list of backups, he picks somebody completely off the grid. So I would not assume that, that anyone that you're hearing rumored is actually that close to replacing Hegseth, because I think it depends on what day this happens and how.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

What about somebody like Brian Mast? He likes the symbolism here. I mean, in Mast has been in.

[Leo Shane]

Sure, it could be, but he can't take too many more folks out of the House. So that's a problem. But also like, I won't be surprised if it's Brian. I won't be surprised if it's, if it's anyone because of, because it just again, I had, I had four pre writes ready for who the VA secretary was going to the VA secretary nominee was going to be Doug Collins wasn't one of them. So, yeah, you know, that's, that is what is on the, on the issue of the Democrats, who's going to lead the charge there? I think at this point, part of this is it looks so bad, they don't need to jump in. They don't need to be piling on here. But you have heard Tammy Duckworth, you have heard a couple of other folks. I think Tammy Duckworth is a very logical one, especially if we start to get into policy issues of women in combat. What does it mean? Can women serve in combat roles if this is an area where he's going to attack? You've got a combat vet who lost both of her legs serving in Iraq standing there saying, really, are you saying that my service wasn't worth it? Are you saying I was a distraction in some way while I was bleeding overseas defending this country? Like that's, that's a very obvious choice for them. I know Senator Reid is supposed to be meeting with, with Pete Hegseth this week. I don't know if that is him being open, him being polite, if they thought it was interesting. Because Hegseth doesn't really need to meet with the Democrats. Democrats aren't relevant here. There's enough Republican votes. If he shores them up, he goes through. I, you know, I think a lot of this will just be driven by can those, can those Democrats not make the public case against him, but make the private case of their colleagues are there, you know, is Tammy Duckworth talking to Joni Ernst on the side and saying, are you really going to back this guy? Do you hear what he's saying about us? Do you hear what he's saying about female vets? Can we really trust him on sexual assault when he's got all this in his back? I think those are going to be the most important things. And I don't think, I don't think a lot of that will be out in the public. I think there'll be some, some more. But, but, you know, buckle up, because we're going to be doing this for at least three or four more weeks. He's going to make it to a confirmation hearing. I'm very confident. After that, man, I'm out of the betting business. Like, I just cannot, I cannot tell anymore who's going to make it through, what's going to matter, what's not. I would have told you that, you know, Trump getting in a, in a scuffle at Arlington Cemetery was the kind of thing that was going to resonate with veterans and really kill them. And it didn't. It just blipped by and nobody seemed to care.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

So I don't, I'm glad you mentioned that. So, as a, as a part of it, I want to talk about Collins and move over to Collins, who I think is maybe the least reported and covered nominee in this entire spectrum.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right?

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I mean, the ambassador to Greece and France and all these other things are going to get more focus, have gotten more focus than the nominee for VA secretary. And I think it's important because they also have to. Have to do shit. Right? And you, you may have met Zach McIlwain along the way as an IAVA leader, and we lost him this week to suicide. And the IAVA leadership crew is really devastated. We just found out yesterday, and we're in mourning. And, you know, Zach was a guy who advocated on the backlog, and that was when everybody was calling for Shinseki to get fired. And he was like Clay Hunt in that he was advocating for suicide. And we've lost him for suicide. So it's a really, it's a devastating loss, but that's the serious shit they're going to have to tackle. Right? So for Doug Collins, who I think it's interesting that he is a chaplain, because it's kind of like the most Trumpiest right wing job you could have in the military, right, Is to be a white guy who's a Baptist minister and a chaplain who Opposes equal rights for women and gay people. So he seems to me kind of like a covert radical. Right. He's less visible. But can you talk about what do you know? And is he pretty much an automatic. Unless they find a body under his bed, yeah.

[Leo Shane]

So, you know, in terms of what do I know here? He served in Congress. He ran for the Senate, and we might be done like. That's right. This is not someone. He didn't serve on the Veterans affairs, didn't serve on Armed Services. I remember seeing him in the hallway. But to be honest, I haven't interviewed him that much because he wasn't relevant to what most of what I'm covering, which is something that I've heard from a lot of veterans advocates that, you know, there's concern that, does he really understand va? Does he understand that everything that's in it. Sure, he is someone who served in the military and has that background, but that doesn't necessarily make you an expert at how disability compensation works or how suicide prevention should work. So by the same token, he did run for Senate. He was in Congress for a while. There doesn't seem to be those same kind of skeletons in his closet because he has been publicly vetted in a bunch of ways, and he did run a congressional office. So there is some optimism, at least, that we're not getting someone who's a complete neophyte when it comes to just understanding how government works and understanding how the process works. Most of the advocates I've talked to, at least privately, are saying we're willing to give the guy a chance. We don't know him. He's a blank slate. But also, he's not somebody who's coming in with an entire agenda that we're worried about. He's not coming in with a specific, you know, a book already written on how to privatize va. He's not coming in with a handful of sexual assault scandals. That seems like damning with faint praise. But that is something at this point. And I think. I think you're right. Unless something really big comes up, I think we're looking at him sailing through confirmation pretty easily because most of his colleagues, both Democrats and Republicans in the House, say, all right, he's. He's got a strong conservative bent, but I don't remember having any problems with him. I don't remember having personal objections to him.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Now, this is kind of deep in our space, but Trump launched the most aggressive privatization effort in modern history at the VA and succeeded in carving off more of the VA for the private sector in his four years, I think, than ever before. Biden kind of tries to roll that back. Now you've got Collins in there who's sure to do the same. And it also dovetails off of what was Hegseth's priority as an organization was to push for this privatization. So I think that what I would call the veterans industrial complex is about to hit, you know, high levels. And I would argue people say, you know, Trump's going to cut the budget. Elon wants to cut the budget. Ramaswamy wants to cut the budget. I've argued that maybe he won't cut the budget, he'll increase it, but he'll just carve off more of it to the private sector than we've ever seen. So I don't know if you, if you can kind of project, you know, 2025 and these other things have said they're going to cut veterans benefits, right? They're going to come after veterans benefits. There was a piece last week that said, you know, they have to tackle benefits at the VA if they're going.

[Paul Rykoff]

To cut the budget.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Do you project that they're really going to do that?

[Leo Shane]

I mean, I. Let me, you know, I just said I don't, I don't make predictions. And so let me take that hat off and put it back on a little bit here. I'll believe that someone's going to cut the VA budget when I see them cut the VA budget. You and I have done this for a long time. Everyone says this is going to be the year we're going to trim that budget, we're going to pull back and everything. And then when push come to shove, there's no lawmaker up here on Capitol Hill who wants to be the one who cut the VA budget, who said we're actually pulling back on benefits. So I think, you know, the DOG committee, the whatever, the government Efficiency Committee, it's interesting to see that. It would not surprise me to see them, you know, take a hard look, but I think that's going to end up being one of these more like justify where the money's going rather than we're going to cut it. And it is a huge portion. But when you find out that a lot of it's going towards veterans benefits and a lot of popularity in pulling that money.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

And when Elon finds out that he is not a contractor at VA and there's a lot of money to be made there, you know, he can link up with the Marvel comic crew and see the opportunity here. I mean, I've long said that most people in the private sector don't understand how much money there is to be made around the va. And I think.

[Leo Shane]

That'S, I think that's a great point. I think there is going to be a lot more of this push towards pushing the money outside of va. The, the community care idea and the idea that, you know, you can pay for. Proud second, you know, you said that the Biden administration has pulled back on some of those privatization efforts or some of those efforts to do stuff. They really, they really haven't, They've, they've given some good lip service to it. But yeah, about, you know, a little bit more than a quarter of all VA medical appointments were outside care before Trump took office. After he left office, it was about 35%. It's up to 40% now. Like the money is still going out there. This community care, this idea of veterans getting care care outside of the VA system, it's, it's been going out now. Some of that growth has slowed under Biden, but we really haven't seen it pulled back at all. And that's where, that's where I think it's going to get really interesting because are you going to get to a point where half of all the medical appointments the VA pays for are outside care? At that point you're just sort of funneling money through va. Like you're just really getting billions of dollars as a pass through and is that the most efficient way to do it? And then are you really having conversations about, okay, do we just need to reinvent tricare for life for a veterans audience where you can go get whatever you want, but we care for it in some way and the loss there is the VA medical network which for its warts and flaws, you know, does, does recognize wounds of war better than the, the community does. If you go to a community doctor, they're not going to ask you the same questions about ptsd, about burn pit illnesses that someone at the VA is going to. Because they, because they know it. So which doesn't.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Yeah, they have a specialty care. I mean, you know, military sexual trauma is maybe a great example of an acute issue. Right. That the VA has expertise on. Right. Try to go get a prosthetic leg for, you know, a woman in the private sector. Right. Versus at the va. Right. Things like that where they have to have expertise.

[Leo Shane]

And that's the thing, that's the thing the veterans groups really get. And you know, this is, it's what veterans groups get terrified about. If that gets dismantled where Do I go to get my prosthetic adjusted? Where do I go if I want veterans? Peer support on ptsd?

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah.

[Leo Shane]

You know, and that's just, you know.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I'm sure Elon would love to invent the next generation of prosthetic legs and it comes with a Starling package. But in the meantime, let me ask you this. McDonough is almost done. He's gone four years. In my view, he was a very controversial pick because he didn't have a history in the space. He wasn't a veteran himself. It was surprising to me that he was a white man. Right. Which also bears noting. Trump, like Biden, is missing an opportunity to make a historic pick at VA or DOD by picking a woman. He did neither of those. Right. It was largely thought that if Biden got a second term, he probably would have put a woman at va. Right. There were, there were undersecretaries and others who would have made viable candidates. But McDonough's done four years. I think his job was keep it quiet over there. Right. Like, don't let us have happen with what happened with Shinseki and Obama where there were problems and headlines. And that's what, you know, McDonough is a fixer.

[Leo Shane]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

He's good at operating a bureaucracy and handling problems. So, I mean, on that level, it seems like he gets a good grade. But how would you grade his overall performance, knowing the VA better than almost anybody and seeing all these VA secretaries? How did he do?

[Leo Shane]

Yeah, and I don't want to be glib because I do think that there's a lot of good things they did and there are a lot of important improvements. But I think you're right. I think the number one job was make sure there's not a national scandal at va, because we've seen that every two or three years for the last several decades. So. And we didn't have one. That doesn't mean the VA is perfect here. But there wasn't a wait time scandal. There hasn't, you know, there hasn't been a sexual harassment scandal like there was in the last one. We didn't have a VA secretary fired. He made it all four years. That makes him the, I believe, the third longest secretary in VA history, just because he made it through a whole four year term, which is, which is kind of crazy. So I do think that, you know, the knock on Secretary Madonna has been that they haven't been as aggressive and as innovative as they could have been, especially given that, you know, that this was an area where, where The President was interested and there were a lot of resources. But by the same token, we did see Congress pass the PACT Act. That's a major expansion of benefits and toxic exposure injuries. We have seen that implemented in a pretty professional fashion here. I mean, you know, more, more folks have gotten into va. We've seen the number of folks getting disability benefits go up. We see the number of appointments going up. So, you know, I think as McDonald walks away, he can proudly say, this is a more efficient department than it used to be. This is one that has brought in more veterans and is on a pathway, at least as he leaves, to be better at fulfilling that outreach mission. Now, I have no idea if any of that will be sustainable and will continue into the next administration. You don't have to cut veterans benefits if you just aren't as aggressive about letting veterans know that it's okay to come get them. Veterans will sort of self select out. Veterans will not know about the benefits they get. And that's been, that's been the biggest difference has been VA saying you're eligible for these benefits and VA going out and saying, hey, you apply for these because we want to pay you disability benefits, we want to get you health care. And that's what, that's been the real shift over the last two years. And I think the thing that McDonough and his team should be proudest of is that idea of making VA a more welcoming place in the sense of, you know, get in here, let us talk, let's have a conversation, let's make sure that you're getting what you deserve because you earned this. I see that really tailing off as we go away here, at least as we get into the idea of should veterans be guilty about getting their benefits, should we be thinking about, you're getting too much here. That's self selected. The number of veterans who I talk to who are like, I just don't want to apply because I know there's guys who have it worse, I know there's women who have it worse. Okay? But that doesn't mean that you don't deserve it. You still deserve it, too.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I think ultimately I've learned to stop grading VA secretaries on a scale and it's more of a pass fail, Right? And so, like, you know, I won't give McDonough, you know, an A, but I'll give him a pass. Right? And in part because he's still standing. And that's a low bar we have at va, but you're better positioned to.

[Leo Shane]

Talk about, I think you may be a little, you may be a little harsh there, but I am, that's my.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

My job is to be harsh. Your job is to be thorough. Right.

[Leo Shane]

I will also tell you that I think they've been more transparent than any VA that I've covered in the past. But again, press conferences. A lot more. A lot more.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

But again, low bar. Right. Like, we're happy that they're doing press conferences.

[Leo Shane]

Right.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Which is something we were asking.

[Leo Shane]

It's more than just the press conferences. It is, it is the press request. It is getting data out there. You know, the Trump administration, especially Under Secretary Wilkie, was great about putting as much data as possible out there. So much so that it was hard to figure out. This administration has been better at. You asked for this data. Here it is. Here's what you actually wanted to see. Not here's every number in the world so we can obscure the other things.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

You're going to stick around for some extra content for our Patreon members. I thank you for that. I thank you Patreon friends and supporters. This is the kind of content you make possible. Right. It's not often you get a chance to hear Leo Shane do a deep dive on this stuff, and he is always constricted by a word count or by a quick hit on cable news. But he is really a true professor of all these things and we're grateful to have you here. Before we wrap up, a couple of quick questions and I do want to get your thoughts on Saquon and your predictions on Army Navy. You and I both know that December is kind of the Christmas tree time. Is a Christmas tree behind me if you're watching on video, check us out on YouTube if you're not. But that's when a lot of things get thrown into the NDA, Right? The end of the year push happens and all kinds of stuff gets thrown in. But there are also these really critical little fights that happen right before Christmas. It's when I think Don't Ask, don't tell went through and the GI Bill went through a lot of stuff was in that kind of final flurry. What's happening right now in Washington that people probably don't know about, that they should? Are there one or two or three key fights?

[Leo Shane]

NDAA was, they released the compromise text as I was putting my Christmas tree up. So, you know, I'm still a little bitter about that, that my Christmas tree has NDAA ornaments on it, because I wasn't, I was trying to keep track of everything. Look, this is this is a giant, you know, just absolutely giant military policy bill. It's not the money side of it, but the money will come. You know, I think, I don't know about your audience, but my audience has been following very closely the issue of the military pay raises in there. There is a giant pay raise for junior enlisted troops. So there are a lot of folks who make just under 30,000 in base pay. There's other money they get, they get free health care, they get some housing. But still the money that you actually can take home and have some flexibility with, it's about, you know, less than 30,000. For some of these folks who are 24 years old and they're an E2, they've only been in there for a few years. They're going to see like a 3,000 to $6,000 pay boost next year and that's a huge deal. That's a lot of just take home money for folks. And right now there's also a provision in that bill that deals with transgender youth and denying medical care through Tricare for them. That's going to cause a lot of Democrats to vote against this bill. In three months, we're going to be having conversations about how Democrats voted against a major pay raise for young troops.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

And are they going to take the. I mean, is that what's going to happen?

[Leo Shane]

They're going to take the bait? There's absolutely. It's what it is. It's what Speaker Johnson wanted. Actually heard from House Armed Services Chairman Mike Rogers just yesterday saying that he's not happy this transgender provision got in there because they like to show a unified vote on this authorization bill. It's a major thing. You want to hear that no matter what the politics are up here, people are behind the troops, people are looking out for them. But this is a bill now. I don't know how many Democrats it'll be. It may just be some folks.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I ask you, Leo is there and you know the tactics better than anyone. But as someone who's been on the other side of this, is there an opportunity for somebody to pull a Coburn? Can. Can a Democrat put an anonymous hold or a public hold on this? Can one senator be the doctor? No. We used to call Coburn right when he did this on the Clay Hunt bill. It was this time of year that he single handedly blocked the Clay Hunt Save Act. Right. There have been other holds. Can, can one Democrat put an anonymous hold on it now and shield the rest of them from being forced to that kind of a situation?

[Leo Shane]

There's Some, there's some stuff that could happen in the Senate, but again, this is a bill that if they don't pass it, a whole bunch of, of bonuses and the military pay raise doesn't go through and all these other things that need to be reauthorized and like.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Sherrod Brown or, you know, but even.

[Leo Shane]

If he does that, that's going to happen on the Senate side, not on the House side. The House vote is going to happen first and there's going to be a bunch of Democrats in the House who just are on the record voting against this again for reasons that make sense to their base, but are just going to end up looking bad because it get tied into this. So that's how the politics is made. It stinks. I think what ends up happening is in April, there's a whole bunch of folks that get this big pay raise and maybe they don't care, maybe they don't care about how the sausage was made, but at least when Trump is coming into office, he's going to have this extra cudgel to say Democrats wouldn't even vote for a pay raise for troops. So these young troops who aren't making.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

A, literally hand out checks at the 82nd Airborne, he's going to go, here's your pay raise, everybody. And here's your Starlink and your Elon Tesla prosthetic leg.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right?

[Leo Shane]

I mean, it's for a voting group that is already leaning conservative and has traditionally been identified with conservative, not always fairly, but is identified that way. This is just going to, just going to add more to this. So something worth watching, something that's frustrating. Also, there's provision in there to see if folks in the Air Force should be allowed to have beards. So your, your, your listeners don't care as much as my guys do, but my guys care a ton about this. They just want to grow, want to grow facial hair whenever they can.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

So, man, if the Air Force let people grow beards, recruiting would go through the roof, right? I mean, these are the, I mean, right?

[Leo Shane]

I mean, they're stuck on these recruiting questions and this is the real answer is just let. Let.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I mean, the Air Force is already kicking ass and recruiting, so this is just going to be like the, the icing on the cake. All right, so talking about frustrating, you're a dedicated Eagles fan. I sent you a note and said congratulations on Saquon because I love him. I think the Giants screwed this up and you got an awesome guy who I guess the question is like, should he be mvp. It's the same thing I've been saying to Mets fans. I was like, congratulations on Soto. Enjoy him because he's awesome. It sucks for us, but great for you. So Saquon, he should be the mvp.

[Leo Shane]

No, I'm less happy about the Soto news. To be clear, I would rather not see him 17 times a year against the Phillies, but I don't know how you're asking me that question. This is no question whatsoever who's like, lamar Jackson's doing fine. His. His team has a worse record. He's, you know, he's failed. In a couple weeks, Saquon's averaging 125 rushing. He's going to, he's going to break the single season rushing record against your Giants in the final game of the season, which would be just extra painful. How can you not give it to him? How can you not like. It's. He's.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I still love Saquon. I have no hate on Saquon. My kid is really upset because now he has a Saquon Giants jersey and a Soto Yankees Jersey and he's 5 years old and that's like two thirds of the jerseys he owns. So he doesn't know what to do. But that's our new normal. Let me ask a good news story that's not getting enough press. Army football, right? Army's playing Navy this weekend. Army's got one loss and the only one is to number four, Notre Dame. They got an amazing quarterback, Bryson Daly, that I saw in person with my boys. I think he had five touchdowns in the first half. I mean, this is kind of a great story, right? I mean, the army is good again, right? I haven't been this good since the 50s. And we got Army Navy this weekend, which hopefully should be a great victory for Army. I'm wearing the awesome jersey replica here for Bastone and the 101st. If you guys haven't seen the uniform reveals, go check that out. I post it every year. But this is another thing. It's like kind of good for recruiting. Trump will be there. Last year he had Elon there. I probably think West Moore is going to be there since it's at his stadium. Right? I mean, is this going to be like a total political spectacle? And how awesome is army and why isn't Bryson Daly at the Heisman ceremony?

[Leo Shane]

Yeah, a lot, a lot to unpack there. So I've gotten to cover several of these Army Navy games as a, as a reporter. It is just, it's a different feel. It's a lot of Fun. I am excited that especially in the championship game for army, they did discover the forward pass again, which is this new thing that they're doing in football games now. So.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yep.

[Leo Shane]

But it is like, I, I hope that it's not overly political. And to be fair, when Trump has gone to these in the past, he is going as president or President elect. Like, this is more about the office. He hasn't stood up and made a speech. He's there. This is part of the pomp and circumstance of the whole thing. Right.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Biden's probably not going to go. Right. So Trump will be there and Biden won't be there.

[Leo Shane]

Yeah. I mean, maybe I have not heard anything about Biden going. There'll be a couple representatives, there'll be all the army brass, they'll be all the Navy brass. They'll do the, they'll do the, all.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

The people Trump's about to fire in the purge.

[Leo Shane]

It's, it's, but it's, it's less about that and more about the, the pageantry, more about the, the nonsense. So.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

And Heg. Seth will be there, I'm sure.

[Leo Shane]

You know, I think, I think hopefully it'll be a good game. I went to the Navy two lane game a couple weeks ago where Navy was still like on the edge of like, could they, could they be playing army in the championship game? And we didn't get to see any Navy touchdowns. We saw a lot of two lane touchdowns. So it's not, not necessarily looking too good for them. But it's, you know, it's.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Bryson, this is a serious point. You know, Bryson Daly is, is, I think, you know, his records are through the roof. Put his stats up against anybody. You could argue he's playing against lighter competition, but this kid's special and he's had an amazing season. I mean, it feels like a slight to the academies and the academies kind of don't always get enough respect, but this could be a boom for recruiting and the uniforms and all this shit I think is going to help army recruiting be more competitive. But now they can't pay people under the nil. Right. Like, like other schools are. So that's going to be a huge gap. But this kid's a great story, like for America. Right. And he should be at the, at the Downtown Athletic Club.

[Leo Shane]

So I agree. And he's somebody and, but let's, let's tie it back to my actual day job here. So when Trump was in office, we saw him push up a couple of initiatives about allowing guys to get out and to go right to the pros and. And to make sure that they don't have to have their service requirement and just sort of go in. Now we're talking nil and everything. Would you be surprised if a year from now, Trump is talking about allowing the service academies to have some sort of nil payment somehow and saying that we should do this and we should have some sort. And now all of a sudden, army and Navy are talking about, could we pay something to our players? Could we have. Would this help with recruitment?

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I'm not a platoon leader rolling into your unit with $10 million in your bank. And like, I mean, that would be. Look, conflict of interest is no longer a thing. So anything is possible.

[Leo Shane]

It would be. I could see it. I could just see.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I'm so grateful that you're finally on the show. You're going to stick around for some extra content. So Patreon members, you're getting that exclusively. But for everyone else, now you see why everyone has so much respect and admiration for Leo Shane. You have been tireless. You have been dedicated. I think you are a true patriot. You are. You exemplify the best of journalism, my friend. Nobody works harder. And you've had such a profound impact on our space and you've changed and saved many lives through your coverage. And we all very much appreciate you and salute you. So thank you for all you do. I hope that Saquon does well for you, but you don't win the super bowl and that you. You get to go to Army Navy and sit in Elon's booth and see army victorious.

[Leo Shane]

Listen, you are. You are too kind. It has been a pleasure for me to be able to cover the veterans community. It has just been a community that has, has embraced me and has always offered its story. So I'm happy to keep doing this as long as. As long as folks will keep talking to me.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

Well, go army, beat Navy. Go Leo. And Happy holidays.

[Leo Shane]

And go Eagles.

[Co-host (possibly a veteran advocate or commentator)]

I can't go that far. Happy holidays and stay vigilant, my friend.

[Paul Rykoff]

All right, you heard it there. Leo Shane is a true helper and he is always bringing attention to the community of veterans that surround us and help us and support us and often need our help, especially around the holidays. So if you know a veteran who's struggling, please reach out. And if you're struggling yourself, dial 988. Reach out to a friend, contact the Veterans Crisis Line, or you can call or DM me. We are all here for each other, especially around the holidays. And every one of us has an opportunity to be a helper.

[Leo Shane]

Always look for the helpers.

[Tim Scott]

There will always be helpers.

[Leo Shane]

You know, even just on the sidelines, if you look for the helpers, you'll know that there's hope.

[Paul Rykoff]

Last month, we lost another true helper. A guy who brought the spirit of America and the spirit of holidays to everybody. He touched my friend, Eddie Schrank. Eddie Schrank served in the Marine corps as a noble and honorable leader. And while he did, he was exposed to toxins that would ultimately take his life. He had countless surgeries for cancer, removing part of his skull and at one point, almost losing part of his jaw. But he always kept going and he always kept bringing others up. And he was one of the bravest and most dynamic guys I've ever known and one of the most supportive. He went through more pain than most folks can imagine, but while he did surgery after surgery, he was always asking how I was doing and asking how he could do more to help others. He had a huge heart and was pretty damn funny. From leading the way on Capitol Hill for iava to carrying his kids on his shoulders while marching alongside me in the Veterans Day parade. Every time I saw Eddie, more of his body was missing, but his clarity was greater and he just kept going. He faced death over and over again, and he showed us all how to live. He's the only guy I've ever known who could be missing part of his skull and an eye and still sing the national anthem at a NASCAR race in an NFL game in front of tens of thousands of people to hear. Check this out.

[Announcer for Edward Schrank]

Now, ladies and gentlemen, please rise, remove your caps. And military personnel and veterans of military service render a hand salute and sing along as we honor America with our national anthem. Performing the anthem today is a 15 year Marine veteran and 6 time cancer survivor due to toxic chemical exposure during active duty. During his one of his most recent bouts with cancer, he was nearly forced to have his jaw removed. But instead, he beat cancer again and decided to dedicate himself to singing the national anthem. Also celebrating his birthday with us today, Please welcome Edward Schrank.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

Oh, Jose, can you see by the d what so proud proudly we hailed at the twilight last gleaming? Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight O' er the ramparts we watched Were so gallantly streaming and the rockets rent the lair the bombs bursting in there Gave proof through the night that a flag was still there O Saint us that star spangled valiant wave. O the land of the free.

[Paul Rykoff]

And.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

The home of the brave.

[Announcer for Edward Schrank]

Thank you, Edward. Outstanding job.

[Paul Rykoff]

Ed had guts, heart and drive the likes of which I've never seen. And he will forever be an inspiration to us all. So next time you sing the national anthem or if you do it at the Army Navy game or watching the Army Navy game this weekend, try to sing it with half as much heart as Eddie Schrank did. We'll miss you, buddy. And we're forever grateful for all you've done. For all of us. Semper fi. Now Eddie's amazing wife of over 26 years, Yoshi, and their three children, Sarah, age 15, Edward III, age 11, and Linden, age 8, are in need of our support, especially this holiday. And like their dad, these kids will help many others and do some great things. So please join me in contributing to support them in memory of their brave, brilliant and wonderful dad. There's a GoFundMe page set up and it's linked in these show notes. But especially this holiday time, let's take care of one of our own who set the example and is a true North Star. Not just around the holidays, but always.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

That mountain sun you work on Earth is done. Go to heaven above the father, Oh how we cry.

[Paul Rykoff]

Let's pay it forward and let's remind each other and everyone else that especially around the holidays, we are one team, one fight. That's what we'll see on the field this weekend in Washington, D.C. as Army and Navy clash in the annual football game, America's game for two teams that, sorry, Cowboys, are truly America's team. I hope you get a chance to watch it on CBS at 3pm And I hope you get a chance to visit one day and go check it out in person if you never have already. It is really a special thing, but it's a reminder of what our country can be all about. It's a reminder of what the best of our youth are all about. And it's a chance to step back and appreciate each other, this country, and a great game of football because army is awesome this year. America is always divided, but at least for a couple hours, maybe we can be united in supporting both army and Navy and each other. The future is full of independence, folks, because independence are the future. But we are not alone in our independence. So let's keep spreading the word. Independent Americans and righteous media are working to change the division and add light to contrast the heat of all the other stuff out there. So if you're now among the 51% of Americans who are independent, this is your show. Even if you're an Eagles fan, even if you're a Navy fan. If you're a Republican or a Democrat and not a die hard partisan, come on and join us. This is your show because our independent movement is hope for the future. Country over party, people over politics, busting up the status quo and adding light to contrast to heat and fueling a new movement that spans all across our society. Please check us out at IndependentAmericans US. Subscribe wherever you're listening now. Follow us on YouTube and if you're not already, consider joining our Patreon crew who is getting an extra piece of content with Leo Shane where he talks about his first car, we talk more about the Juan Soto trade and we hear his very, very epic answer on waffles versus pancakes. But that's special extra content for Patreon members only and the rest of you can also get independent American swag. Find out past episodes and more at IndependentAmericans US. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Leo Shane and our recent episodes of Sebastian Younger, Barbara Starr and others. If you did, please share it far and wide this holiday season. Be generous. It's free and it makes a great gift. Invite others to declare their independence and stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom and hope is the oxygen democracy and it'll help keep you vigilant and keep you motivated if you lose your voice from a cold like I have. But know you're not alone in your vigilance. We are all vigilant and we're all in this together, especially as we near the end of the year and go deeper into the holidays. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for listening. Down with Hamas, down with Putin. Slava, Ukraine. Stay vigilant America. Happy holidays and go army beat Navy.

[Various quoted voices or interjections (including Edward Schrank and others)]

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

[Paul Rykoff]

Power by righteous media.