312. Jason Alexander. Fifth Annual Festivus Episode!! Drone Madness. Tuberville Doubles Down On Dumb. Daniel Penny & Elon Musk Visit Army Navy. Democrats Fumble Another One. Elf on the Shelf Exhaustion. The Secret Santa Delivering Hope to North Carolina.

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff

Episode 312: Jason Alexander. Fifth Annual Festivus Episode!! Drone Madness. Tuberville Doubles Down On Dumb. Daniel Penny & Elon Musk Visit Army Navy. Democrats Fumble Another One. Elf on the Shelf Exhaustion. The Secret Santa Delivering Hope to North Carolina.
Release Date: December 19, 2024

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Main Theme and Purpose

This special holiday episode of Independent Americans marks the show’s fifth annual Festivus conversation with actor and activist Jason Alexander. Host Paul Rieckhoff uses Alexander's wisdom and warmth as a lens to both reflect on a tumultuous 2024 and offer hope and practical perspective for listeners heading into 2025. Addressing the "angry middle," Rieckhoff weaves through pressing news (drone hysteria, political culture wars, Army-Navy game optics, the turbulent emotions of the holiday season) before diving into an extended, heartfelt dialogue covering America’s divisions, generational anxiety, community support, antisemitism, and the role of kindness during hard times. The tone moves from sardonic and satirical to deeply empathetic, mixing political frustration with calls for unity and compassion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Drone Hysteria and Growing Political Absurdity

• The episode opens with Rieckhoff lampooning widespread anxiety about mysterious drones over New Jersey and conspiracy-minded claims from politicians about Iranian “motherships” off the East Coast (04:00–06:35).
• Pentagon officials are forced to refute dramatic, unsupported stories:

  "There is not any truth to that. There is no Iranian ship off the coast of the United States and there's no so-called mothership launching drones towards the United States." (Pentagon Spokesperson, 06:25)

• Rieckhoff uses this hoopla as evidence of a political culture obsessed with sensational distractions, bluntly remarking:

  "2024 was pretty damn stupid. And 2025 is going to be even stupider..." (06:35)

2. Culture Wars, Political Appointments, & Military Policy

• Rieckhoff calls out nonsensical Trump appointments (a new Air Force chief who never served, nomination of Pete Hegseth as SecDef), and the ongoing GOP-Democrat divide over issues like women in combat (08:10–10:19).
• Ted Cruz’s opposition to drafting women is identified as a recurring battlefront of traditional vs. modern values.

3. Army-Navy Game Optics & Democrats Out of Touch

• The pod covers Vice President-Elect J.D. Vance inviting Daniel Penny (recently acquitted in a controversial chokehold death) to the Army-Navy game, as Republicans “roll deep” for cultural symbolism — while President Biden and VP Harris are notably absent (11:37–13:06).
• Rieckhoff critiques Democrats for missing opportunities to connect with mainstream American imagery and traditions.

4. The "Week in Stupid": Tommy Tuberville & Vaccine Denial

• Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville doubles down on anti-vax rhetoric, underlining how ignorance in public health matters poses security risks (14:10–15:02).
• Rieckhoff:

  "He was consistent throughout 2024. He'll be consistent throughout 2025. He will be stupid and ridiculous." (15:02)

5. Parenting, Politics, & the Fatigue of Twisted American Rituals

• Brief non-political asides on “Elf on the Shelf” exhaustion become a humorous touchpoint for the fatigue parents and citizens feel trying to keep up with societal expectations amid chaos (15:02–17:01).

6. Substantive News Ignored: Syria Strikes & Military Pay

• Rieckhoff points out that ongoing US operations in Syria and significant changes to military pay and benefits get little coverage, compared to frenzied focus on “drone panic” (17:16–21:22).
• The new defense bill boosts pay and quality-of-life improvements for troops, with significant but controversial clauses (e.g., restricting medical care for trans minors).

7. Hope in Veteran & Independent Political Leadership

• Uplifting updates about independent veteran candidates like Luke Shaffer and Travis Indicott, recently elected to local office, exemplify the movement’s growth and promise (21:30–23:27).

8. Jason Alexander’s Annual Festivus Conversation (27:18–85:17)

• Personal Reflections & Secret to Happiness (27:55–29:23)

  • Alexander shares gratitude for family proximity and simple blessings:

    "My children are safe and sound. And I go, good day. It's a good day, you know, so it's a good day." (28:54)

• Challenges Facing Young Men & Generational Strain (30:10–33:55)

  • Alexander discusses his sons’ struggles in a rapidly changing world, relating broadly to many young Americans adrift in shifting definitions of gender, identity, and economic security.

• Coping with Change & Fear (33:58–38:13)

  • Wise observation on differing responses to rapid change:

    "Stasis only happens to the dead or the inert." (37:02)

  • Change excites some, terrifies others; understanding this is essential to dialogue.

• Communities & the Power of Connection (38:10–40:13)

  • After the election, Alexander reminds colleagues to lean into community:

    "We live micro day to day. We live in communities. ...We got you back. We have to have each other's back." (39:20)

• National Grievance, Security, and Forgiveness (41:19–47:15)

  • Conversation explores widespread feelings of insecurity and the fuel of grievance politics.
  • Alexander shares wisdom on forgiveness, referencing a podcast guest:

    "Forgiveness is not something you gift to that person. It's the thing you gift to yourself." (44:10)

• Trump, Authoritarianism, and What Comes Next (47:18–53:42)

  • Rather than focusing on Trump as an individual, Alexander voices concern for those empowered by his cruelty:

    "I am not concerned about Donald Trump. I am concerned about everybody around him..." (47:18)

  • He advocates vigilant patience: act against specific harms as they arise, not merely against looming fears.

• On Antisemitism in 2024 (54:45–59:44)

  • Alexander demystifies antisemitism as one form among many of “hatred of the other,” contextualizing recent spikes amid global conflicts.
  • Profoundly states:

    "When all of us love our children more than we love land or blood or vengeance or justice—when we love our children more than we love ourselves, this will all stop." (58:35)

• Kamala Harris, Democratic Party, and the American Political Landscape (61:42–69:52)

  • Praises Harris’s growth as a candidate and calls for Democrats to self-reflect, open ears, and focus on practical concerns over “tribal” party competition.
  • Warns about the breakdown of factual consensus:

    "How we get back to creating just a set of facts that both teams can go ‘okay, those are going to be the rules of our game’—that's what we need to do." (69:53)

• AI, the Erosion of Humanity, and Finding Compassion (69:52–75:14)

  • Shares concern over technology supplanting basic human actions, and pleads for leaders—and people—to add humanity and compassion to every issue.

• Holiday Message & The Healing Power of Service (76:52–83:09)

  • Alexander offers advice to those struggling during the holidays:

    "...if you have the luxury to be listening to this podcast and thinking about this, there are many that are doing worse than you. And one of the most effective ways to change how bad you're feeling...is to lend a hand to someone who needs it a little bit more." (77:44)

  • Small acts—listening, asking about someone’s story, giving kindness—can transform others’ pain and our own.

9. The Helping Spirit of the Season: "Look for the Helpers"

• Rieckhoff applies a Fred Rogers axiom, sharing a story about a "Secret Santa" bringing hope and cash gifts to flood survivors in North Carolina (86:16–88:38).
  • Emphasis on kindness as an unbreakable bridge between people.

    "Kindness is the bridge between people. A bridge that can't be burned, bombed or washed away in a flood." (88:38)

10. Closing Reflections and Calls to Vigilance

• Rieckhoff summarizes the year’s hardships and hopes, encourages listeners to remain vigilant, and build a movement of kindness and independent thinking as America enters an unpredictable 2025 (90:00–end).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jason Alexander: On Change and Community

  "Stasis only happens to the dead or the inert. So, you know, it's not something to be wished for... everything that is alive is constantly changing." (37:02)

• On Forgiveness

  "Forgiveness is not something you gift to that person. It's the thing you gift to yourself." (Alexander paraphrasing a podcast guest, 44:10)

• On the Season’s Message

  "If you have the luxury to be listening to this podcast... there are many that are doing worse than you. ...One of the most effective ways to change how bad you're feeling for and about yourself is to lend a hand to someone who needs it a little bit more." (Alexander, 77:44)

• On Antisemitism

  "I promise you. People that hate the Jews hate a lot of other kinds of people." (Alexander, 57:40) "When all of us love our children more than we love land or blood or vengeance or justice—when we love our children more than we love ourselves, this will all stop." (Alexander, 58:35)

• Paul Rieckhoff’s Synthesis

  "If you're among the 50% of Americans who are independent, this is your show. If you're a frustrated Republican or a Democrat, come on over. We'd love to have you." (90:00)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Drone Madness and Pentagon Rebuttal: 01:41–06:35
• Tommy Tuberville and This Week in Stupid: 14:04–15:02
• Military Pay and Culture Wars: 17:16–21:22
• Rise of Independent Veterans: 21:30–23:27
• Festivus Begins: Jason Alexander (Intro): 27:18–27:55
• Personal Reflections & Parenting Wisdom: 27:55–33:55
• Coping with Change, Fear, and Community: 33:58–40:13
• Security, Forgiveness, Trump, and Accountability: 41:19–53:42
• On Antisemitism and the Israel-Hamas Conflict: 54:45–59:44
• Kamala Harris, Dems’ Future, Broken Factual Consensus: 61:42–69:52
• Holiday Message: The Power of Service: 76:52–83:09
• "Look for the Helpers" Story: 86:02–88:38

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Final Takeaways

• Political Stupidity and Distraction: 2024’s political discourse was dominated by sensationalism, conspiracy, and cultural division—requiring vigilance moving ahead.
• The Value of Community: In turbulent times, success and meaning come from supporting and listening to those around us, not from alignment with tribal politics or social media frenzies.
• Service as Antidote: Personal pain and social pessimism can be alleviated through acts of kindness, small or large.
• Hope for the Future: Independent political voices, calls for open dialogue, and prioritizing compassion offer the best chance to weather an unpredictable 2025 and beyond.
• "Look for the Helpers": Even in hard times, acts of generosity and empathy serve as bridges; they are a source of hope and the seeds of national renewal.

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Summary in the Original Tone

Witty, irreverent, but ultimately heartfelt, this Festivus episode with Jason Alexander reminds us: even as American politics drifts further into madness and division, the answer is not panic, nor is it escapism. It’s presence, perspective, and collective care—at the holidays and all year long. Alexander’s parting wisdom is simple but radical in the era of outrage:

"Look at the pain of somebody else and see if there's anything you can do to help, even if it's just asking, 'Hey, how are you? What happened? What can I do?'... if you have the luxury to be listening to this podcast... there are many that are doing worse than you. And one of the most effective ways to change how bad you are feeling for and about yourself is to lend a hand to someone who needs it a little bit more." (76:52–78:14)

Happy Festivus. Stay vigilant. Look for the helpers. We’re all in this together.

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Transcript

[Paul Rykoff]

Power by righteous Media.

[Jason Alexander]

We want to talk right down to earth in a language that everybody here can easily understand. Look in my eyes.

[Chris Rosenthal]

What do you see?

[Jason Alexander]

Ho, ho, ho.

[Paul Rykoff]

Welcome to Independent Americans, and welcome to episode 312. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Yes, that time of year is finally here, so I want to wish everyone an early Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, and most of all, a happy Festivus. Yes, it is that time of year. So we've got coming up, my special present to you, our annual Festivus conversation with the great Jason Alexander. But before we get to that, this is a time where Santa isn't the only thing people are looking for in the skies this holiday season. And that makes even Festivus a time to stay vigilant.

[Unknown Politician]

Thank you. Good to see you. Good to see you.

[Jason Alexander]

Can you comment on the drones that.

[Paul Rykoff]

Are flying around New Jersey ports? It seems like the American people have a big disc.

[Unknown Politician]

The governor, the government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. And for some reason, they don't want to comment. And I think they'd be better off saying what it is. Our military knows and our president knows, and for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy, because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out. Even if they were late, they'd blast it. Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people, and they should, because the people are really. I mean, they happen to be over Bedminster. They're very close to Bedminster. I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster. I've decided to cancel my trip.

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

Have you received an intelligence briefing on the drones?

[Unknown Politician]

I don't want to comment on that.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yes, the conversation this year is not about Ukraine. It's not about the threat of China invading Taiwan. It's not about starving kids in America or how we can better solve poverty this Christmas. No, it's about drones or things that people are taking pictures of that are not actually drones, ranging from airplanes to stars. And I think we might have to create a new segment going into 2025, and we might have to call it Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, which is military speak.

[Jason Alexander]

For what the fuck? What the fuck. What the fuck what?

[Paul Rykoff]

Yep. You're never gonna forget that song, and you're never gonna forget 2024. But that song is gonna be your next favorite after the asshole song and Hell to the Gnaw because Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Indeed. Check this out.

[Representative Jeff Van Drew]

Well, here's the real deal, Harris. You know, I'm also on the Transportation Committee on the Aviation Subcommittee. And I've gotten to know people and from very high sources, very qualified sources. Sources, Very responsible sources. I'm going to tell you the real deal. Iran launched a mothership probably about a month ago that contains these drones. That mothership is off. I'm going to tell you the deal. It's off the east coast of the United States of America. They've launched drones, is everything that we can see or hear. And again, these are from high sources. I don't say this lightly. Now, you know, we know there was a probability it could have been our own government. We know it's not our own government because they would have let us know. It could have been some really glorified hobbyist or hobbyists that were doing something unbelievable. They don't have the technology, but let's pretend that's possible. The third possibility was somebody, an adversarial country, doing this. Know that Iran made a deal with China to purchase drones, motherships and technology. In order to go forward. The sources I have are good. They can't reveal who they are because they are speaking to me in confidentiality. These drones should be shot down.

[Paul Rykoff]

A US Congressman actually said that an Iranian mothership was responsible for launching drones off the east coast of the United States.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Yes.

[Paul Rykoff]

Really. And that required this response.

[Reporter]

Sabrina, can you tell me what the Pentagon is doing to address this issue of drone sightings over New Jersey? It's near sensitive installations. The FBI is involved. What is the Pentagon doing?

[Jason Alexander]

Sure.

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

So at this time, so aware of those drone sightings that have been reported, at this time, we have no evidence that these activities are coming from a foreign entity or the work of an adversary. We're going to continue to monitor what is happening, but, you know, at no point were our installations threatened when this activity was occurring.

[Reporter]

Can you rule out that these are American drones or US Military drones?

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

These are not US Military drones. Again, this is being investigated by local law enforcement. What our initial assessment here is that these are not drones or activities coming from a foreign entity or adversary.

[Reporter]

Representative Jeff Van Drew, who is a Republican from New Jersey, was just on the air saying that Iran launched a mothership probably about a month ago that contains these drones and that that mothership is off the coast of the east coast of the United States. Is there any truth to that?

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

There is not any truth to that. There is no Iranian ship off the coast of the United States and there's no so called mothership launching drones towards the United States.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yes, really. So instead of commenting on troops in Syria or what's happening in Ukraine or even the border, you've got the Pentagon now having to respond to to this. 2024 was pretty damn stupid. And 2025 is going to be even stupider because not only has this captured the attention of the media and especially the President Elect, it's also distracted folks from other more important stuff, like the fact that Trump has now nominated a new Air Force chief who, surprise surprise, has never served in the Air Force, but he does have a private pilot's license and of course is a Trump donor. So he's perfect. And a fitting bookend to the recent nominee for Navy Secretary who, remember, never served in the Navy. Yes folks, this holiday season is full of stupid surprises and 2024 has been a wild one. And it's a good thing we got Jason Alexander coming up to help us make sense of it because 2025 is going to be even wilder. So stay vigilant folks, this holiday season especially. And as we get ready for a wild new year, because now more than ever, even Santa knows it's true. Stakes is high.

[Jason Alexander]

55 stakes is high.

[Paul Rykoff]

You know them stakes is high. Usually this time of year, NORAD's got enough to deal with tracking Santa and making sure kids can watch online, which I highly recommend if you've never done it, but also watching out for things like, you know, intercontinental ballistic missiles. But no, now instead we've got to deal with the drone situation, the drone scare happening all around the country. Now look, there are definitely too many drones and there should be some kind of tracking mechanism to make sure a bunch of them don't fly over the White House or Bedminster or the Giants game or anywhere else. But I think the overblown exaggeration underscores what I've talked about before. Democrats love to deny reality and Republicans love to exaggerate it. And we're seeing that around all Trump's nominees. And of course, the Hegseth drama continues as Pete Hegseth nomination for Secretary of Defense continues to be under fire. It looks like we'll have a hearing next year alongside of course, RFK junior Tulsi Gabbard, Kash Patel and any other number of radical and insane picks. So just about every senator has been asked about Hegseth now and as I mentioned before, the non endorsements have been especially important to watch like Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Joni Ernst because they're going to be the make or break on Hegseth nomination. Now, Ted Cruz apparently doesn't share Hegseth's view on banning women from combat roles, but he also doesn't think women are equal. Check this out.

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

He said last night that his comments were misconstrued.

[Jason Alexander]

So I want to be fair to.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Him and play his actual comments of.

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

What he said about this.

[Paul Rykoff]

I'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated.

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

So that was him on November 23rd. I mean, he's explicitly saying that he doesn't think that. He says it makes fighting more complicated.

[Jason Alexander]

Would you agree with those comments?

[Chris Rosenthal]

Well, listen, what I would agree with.

[Jason Alexander]

Is the proposition that women shouldn't be subject to the draft. And I've been very vocal fighting against putting women involuntarily into the military if.

[Paul Rykoff]

They don't wish to serve. So what Ted Cruz is talking about is something you'll hear more about next year. He doesn't want women to be required to register for the Selective Service or draft like men are. Now, this is another important dividing line between the Democrats and the Republicans and especially the older generation and the new. It comes down to are women and men equal in America or not? And if they are, they should have the same opportunity to fight and potentially die for their country. And if there is, God forbid, a draft in the future, everybody should be drafted, not just men. That's what happens in other countries. That's what happens in other modern militaries. And that's what should happen here, not just for the best interest of our military, but for the best interests of our republic. Because if all men and women are truly created equal, the draft and military service should be no exception. But the culture wars around our national defense are a saga that will continue. Another saga that continued this week is, of course, the saga of Daniel Penney, the man who was found not guilty in the chokehold death of Jordan Neely, who this week got a very personal, very high profile invitation from vice president elect J.D. vance to attend the Army Navy game with him on Saturday. Now, it was actually a very smart political move by Vance, and I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to get Penny to run for mayor of New York City. But the Republicans beat the Democrats to the punch here and really underscored how they understand sports, they understand American culture, and they Understand how to manipulate a moment into mass exposure. Over 9 million people watched the Army Navy game, the highest rating since 1990. And the Democrats again at that event showed how out of touch they are. Which I might have to make a weekly segment in 2025, come up with some music for Democrats who are out of touch. But at the game, Trump, Pete Hegseth, Tulsi Gabbard, JD Vance, Speaker Johnson, Ron Desantis, they were all there at the Army Navy game. And you know who wasn't? Joe Biden. Joe Biden. President Joe Biden was not there, just like he hasn't been for the last four Army Navy games. Kamala Harris, also not there. There are a couple of other lower profile Democrats like the VA secretary and of course the Secretary of defense is always there. Our friend and guest on this show, Democrat Pat Ryan, who represents West Point, was there and Wes Moore was there. Governor of Maryland, 82nd Airborne veteran, he was there. But the president and vice president, we're not. They failed to roll deep like the Republicans. And it's yet another missed opportunity by an amazingly out of touch party. So Democrats out of touch might have to be a new segment in 2025.

[Jason Alexander]

Stay tuned.

[Paul Rykoff]

Now, if you're feeling overwhelmed, you're feeling exhausted, take a big deep breath because Jason Alexander is coming up with the most wisdom filled, heartwarming conversation that you will hear on this show and maybe anywhere all year long, every year. He is like a giant chaser to wash away some of the bad feelings of the year and help us bring in a new year with perspective, reflection and, and heart. So stay tuned for that. But the opposite of wisdom is, of course, stupidity. And I think a weekly segment throughout 2024 and surely into 2025 will be this Week in Stupid.

[Pentagon Spokesperson]

This Week in Stupid.

[Paul Rykoff]

This Week in Stupid, sponsored by radical and ridiculous Alabama Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville, who is the most consistent member of the Senate, consistently stupid. Check this out.

[Tommy Tuberville]

What I was excited to hear him about is get away from guessing and do facts, do science, get behind the science and stay with it. Don't be guessing. And that's what a lot of these vaccines have done. They haven't been 100% proven. If you look at the number of vaccines these young babies get over a short period of time, it's dozens and dozens of them. And he's totally against that. He wants to make sure that parents understand the good and the bad and the ugly instead of just forcing parents to give vaccines for their kids. But I talked about, you know, he and I Both grew up and we had three vaccines. Tuberculosis, polio, and, I think, smallpox. And that's how much it's grown years now. Now we get dozens and dozens.

[Paul Rykoff]

He is very consistent, folks. He was consistent throughout 2024. He'll be consistent throughout 2025. He will be stupid and ridiculous. Now, I read this week that Elon Musk says not to use hashtags on Twitter anymore, but it's going to be really hard to let go of SenatorRedneck. Now, keep in mind, these are the same people that didn't want our troops to get the COVID vaccine and others as we deployed. Service members around the world, confined in small spaces and exposed to any number of diseases in foreign countries. If you're not big on vaccinations, ask yourself how you would feel if you were trapped in a submarine for a few months with a bunch of guys who didn't get any vaccines. Putin and China would love to see RFK Jr. And Tommy Tuberville driving American health policy. Remember, vaccines are not just a public health protection, they're also a national security one. And that's why when this stuff unfolds throughout 2024 and into 2025, our enemies are celebrating, yes, this holiday, as we all get ready to celebrate the end of having to move the elf on the shelf every single night. Only seven days to go, parents. It's exhausting. It's fun. It's really fun. But damn, it's exhausting trying to figure out where to put those damn elves every night. I'm like, honey, did you move the elves? Oh, shit. I didn't. Did you? No. All right, I got it tonight. You get it tomorrow. Okay? I've got elves eating Cheetos. I've got elves playing basketball. I've got elves stuck in toasters and driving cars. I'm running out of ideas, people. So if you want to send me some, hit me up on social and tell me your ideas for what I should do for my kids. Elves who are named Rocket and Patrick Mahomes. I am trying to pay attention to these things, all these things that are happening just like you. We've got to keep our eye on the ball because there are still very important issues beyond the elves and beyond the drones that most Americans are not paying attention to.

[Jason Alexander]

Should I pay more attention?

[Paul Rykoff]

I should be paying more attention to. I should be paying more attention to you. I should be paying more attention to you.

[Jason Alexander]

Smoking mirrors.

[Paul Rykoff]

Did you know this week there were more U.S. airstrikes? Yes, Central Command, which is one of the best parts of Twitter and other social media platforms, but follow centcom. CENTCOM conducted precision airstrikes against known ISIS camps and operatives in Syria on December 16, killing 12 ISIS terrorists. So American forces in and around Syria that most Americans forget about or don't know about are continuing to engage in combat and kill terrorists, which gets a lot less attention than drones or potential drones in New Jersey. Ask yourself, why isn't the White House and Trump and the media talking about the airstrikes we're doing in Syria? The American men and women who are in harm's way in Syria, that's where people should be focused. Because it's always about national security, folks, and especially when folks are not paying attention. Speaking of the holidays and our military, it's always a good time to reflect on how many young men and women are are going to miss their Christmas. They're going to miss their Hanukkah, they're going to miss their Festivus because they're going to be deployed around the world. But if you pay attention to what's happening in Washington, you also know that it's one of the most critical times because in addition to the Christmas trees that are all around America and all around the world, there is a giant defense bill that goes through Congress in December every year. That's a Christmas tree of legislation. It's where they throw all kinds of shit on this giant defense bill that everybody votes on and nobody wants to vote against or veto. And as I recorded this, there was breaking news that the Senate has passed the new defense bill, which will include a massive junior enlisted pay boost in 2025. So if you're a junior enlisted member of the military, there's a Christmas present coming for you in 2025. Troops ranked E2 with two years of service would normally see their base salary set around $27,000. That's now going to go up to $31,000. Troops ranked E4 with three years in the ranks are going to see their pay go up from 35,000 a year to more than $40,000 a year. There were also a lot of quality of life increases around base housing and resources. But it was also the first big culture war fight around the Pentagon and a sign of what is to come in 2025 in massive ways. Our friend Leo Shane from the Military Times, who joined us in our last episode, covered it and I urge you to check out all his reporting. But he noted a host of controversial social issues, such as eliminating the Pentagon's abortion access policy, were stripped from the draft authorization bill during negotiations between the House and Senate. But language barring the military health care system from providing specialized care for minors diagnosed with gender dysphoria was left in the measure, upsetting activists and House Democrats. Now, according to Brandon Wolf, press secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, he said a bill that was supposed to be about pay increases and improvements to their quality of life has been hijacked by anti LGBTQ animus. This stuff does not belong in the bill. Now activists are holding the line in the final days and hoping that Joe Biden will stand with them on this and veto the bill. But I wouldn't expect it. So that's what Christmas 2024 is going to be like. It's going to be some good, it's going to be some bad, and it's going to be a lot of he. But as we go into the holidays with our last conversation of the year on this show, there is always some good news worth celebrating, especially when it comes to our independent movement.

[Jason Alexander]

I was raised by the wolves Apes.

[Paul Rykoff]

This week, Independent Veterans of America independent veteran candidates who have won their election are now being sworn in, including our friend Luke Shaffer out in Encinas, California. Check this out.

[Jason Alexander]

Thank you to each and every one of you that have made your way out here and shown support along the path basically four or five months of the campaign. But the fact of the matter is, a lot of people spoke tonight. I am one of those people that was born and raised here and I am a product of Encinitas. So everything I decide and will do is in the best interest of Encinitas.

[Paul Rykoff]

Also this week, our friend Travis Indicott, veteran, who is now the new mayor of Ridgecrest, California, was sworn in today. So I want to thank all these leaders for stepping up to lead for our independent movement and thank all of you for supporting Luke Travis and this generation of independent veterans. This wave of independent veterans that ran in 2024, they are a bit of a Christmas and holiday present for all of us and a sign of Christmas and holidays to come because in 2025 we're going to run more like them and in 2026, we're going to do the same. So if you want to look at the ghosts of Christmas future, it can be a good future if we invest in this generation of independent veterans. If you want to follow Luke and Travis's lead and run in your home community in 2025 or 2026 over this holiday break, check out independentveteransofamerica.org Leave the herds, run with the pack and help us make next holidays even more special, powerful and impactful for our independent.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Look.

[Paul Rykoff]

This has been a uniquely exhausting, tumultuous, stressful year. And if you're like me, you're probably just exhausted and maybe a little demoralized, looking for a little bit of hope, looking for a little bit of inspiration, looking for a little bit kindness. And if you're a longtime listener of this show, you know that we get a special holiday present every year around this time.

[Jason Alexander]

Have you been to the carnival? I would like to see you. There's a whole lot of people there who.

[Paul Rykoff]

The great American actor Jason Alexander is somebody I've been honored to call a friend. He's joined us on this show for five years running, and he's a grandfather, he's a father, he's a man who's traveled the world and communicated to millions. Many feel like they know him from his George Costanza character that they'll especially be watching in endless reruns over the holidays. Now he's starring in a reinvigoration of Fiddler on the Roof, and he took time to join us yet again here on Independent Americans. It'll be our last new conversation of the year. And next week and the week after, I'll play some great reruns and special episodes just for you. But this will be our last conversation of 2024, and I think it's the perfect one to put a bow on a very tough year and to help us look ahead to what's possible. I want to thank all of you for riding with us on this journey throughout this year and for sticking around for this one. I think it's a nice way to end the year with kindness, hope and unity, because that's what we're going to need a whole lot more of in 2024. And we're going to need leaders who can meet the moment and set an example that our kids can be proud of. So welcome to our annual holiday episode celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah, Festivus and everything else. Welcome to the end of 2024 in our annual Festivus episode with the great Jason Alexander. Welcome to independent Americans, episode 300.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Ladies and gentlemen, Independent Americans around the country and around the world, happy Festivus. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy pending apocalypse, all the other season's tidings we wish you. And I am so thrilled. If it's Festivus, you know what time that is. It is time to bring back a returning champion. I think our most successful returning champion for our fifth annual Festivus Conversation. The great and powerful Jason Alexander is back. Welcome back, my friend.

[Jason Alexander]

Great and powerful. You know, it's only on your show that any of those words get attributed to me. It's very flattering. I come here for my dopamine hit from you every year.

[Chris Rosenthal]

I think that's our, like, opening shtick every year now.

[Paul Rykoff]

Indeed.

[Jason Alexander]

Indeed it is.

[Chris Rosenthal]

You look, you look fabulous.

[Jason Alexander]

You're very kind.

[Chris Rosenthal]

I love the beard. I mean, you're doing Fiddler on the Roof and I want to talk about that and your podcast and the, and all things America. But welcome back. It's always great to have you here. We need you at the end of every year and especially this year. But I'll start with where I always start. Jason, where are you and how are you?

[Jason Alexander]

Oh, I'm so well, thank you. I. I am very blessed. In a slightly less blessed world, I'm home in Los Angeles where I, I am, I'm one of those old guys that. My wife is a witch. Do you know that, Paul? When my kids, when my boys were teenagers, they're four years apart. So when they were teenagers, I said to my wife, where do you want to be in 10 years, honey? She said, well, where are the boys? I said, well, let's be, you know, come on. It's very unlikely they're going to be in Los Angeles and frankly, it's going to be very unlikely that they're living in the same town. They're very different kinds of guys. They pursuing different things. Each of my sons lives within a mile and a half of either direction of my house. We see them all the time. My wife willed it into creation. And so, you know, I, I'm extremely lucky. I have a two year old grandson. I see him all the time, I see my boys all the time. And, you know, I know we're going to get into stuff, but frankly, that is the secret to happiness is, you know, you can worry about the abstracts of the world and you can worry about tomorrow. But the truth is, I say to my wife every day we get into bed, I think we're healthy. There's nothing I'm aware of. We have a bed, we have a house. No one's bombing us, no one's coming at us. And my children are safe and sound. And I go, good day. It's a good day, you know, so it's a good day.

[Chris Rosenthal]

This is why we need you every year, because you give us that perspective, you know, and you and I have talked a lot more since Norman Lear passed. And I feel like, you know, Norman's spirit has kind of lived on and a lot of people who he's touched directly or indirectly. And when I had him on the show, and I've asked him this before, you know, what's your advice? He used to say over and next. When something is over, it's over and on to the next. And I think we need that right now probably more than ever when it comes to the politics. But, you know, last time we talked to you, your grandson was one. I think you were still doing construction on your house.

[Jason Alexander]

Yeah, it was just finished, by the way.

[Chris Rosenthal]

I think you were doing it every year.

[Jason Alexander]

We just finished and next door, people bought the house next door. There's a two and a half year building project going on. I'm never going to not have workmen around this.

[Chris Rosenthal]

I, I want to ask you because we don't talk enough about this, but I think there's, there's a real kind of crisis. There are a lot of crises in America, but there's a lot of discussion about young men. Right. And how many of them are lost or, you know, they're facing a different world. And you've raised two young men and now you're raising, you know, another. Help raising another little boy. Can you, like, share any insights on that? Every year I know you get more wisdom, and now that you've got this next generation, you've got even more. But you're a great dad. You're a great role model. Any lessons learned that you want to pass on to your grandkid or to anyone listening who's, especially raising kids in times like this?

[Jason Alexander]

Well, you're very, you're very flattering. I. Listen, here's what I do know. Being a dad, being a husband, being a grandfather, being a friend, these are things I try to take seriously. So I actually do try and learn from people who seem to be navigating it successfully. I don't know that there is ultimate wisdom. I do know here's. Here's a couple of things our young people and young men are facing. A lot of our communication is done in 144 characters. So there's not a lot of invitation to really talk or talk in depth. And we are responding to those messages before we've really digested them. You know, they, they hit a, a nerve, either good, bad, or indifferent. And we feel compelled to respond to it and take it to the next step, the next level. I'm trying to spend more and more time listening and not responding and not worrying about what my response is. Going to be, but to really listen and to give invitation and opportunity for people to hear themselves think and express themselves. I, I find that if you leave the space, every response goes a little bit deeper and deeper and deeper and towards some sort of essential truth that they're trying to work out for themselves. My, my boys are both at really crit, critical points in their lives and I feel kind of useless, to tell you the truth. My older son is 32. He's pursuing an acting career. It hasn't been going the way he would like it to. He's got a two year old child, he's got a wife who's the breadwinner in the family with all the stress that that brings. And he's trying to, I, you know, figure out, do I stay with this, do I go to something else? If I go to something else, what is it? My other son is a voiceover actor. He's making a decent little living, but he's not getting to his dreams. He hasn't met his partner in life. You know, he feels somewhat isolated and alone. He's trying to work stuff out. You were talking about Fiddler on the Roof, which has, you know, a cast that is both older people and younger people having those conversations about what is happening to older men right now, where our younger guys are. Not just the guys, I mean, everybody. But you're asking specifically about the guys. Guys are trying to figure out, young men are trying to figure out what they're supposed to be in anybody's eyes. You know, our definition of what essential maleness is, was, is supposed to be, is so in flux right now. I guess all gender stereotypes are in flux right now.

[Paul Rykoff]

And.

[Jason Alexander]

What I'm discovering the more and more I talk to people is that is reflective of what I think the, the big question of our time is. You know, everything's moving so goddamn fast. I mean, changes are coming fast and furious. I, as a sort of progressive person, get excited by change. I do find some of it scary. I do find some of it. You know, I see myself looking at AI and going slow the hell down. Where are we going? But essentially, change excites me. I get intrigued by change, but that's the way I'm wired. A conservative person is wired to look at change with a little bit of a skeptical eye because it means a shift from what they know, what they're comfortable with, what the norms are, what their structure has been. So if you're a conservatively wired person in this day and age, no wonder you're slamming on the Brakes as hard as you can and pulling in anything that feels like an opposite direction because it is fast and furious and extreme. And I think that's. I actually think, as I read the papers every day, and I see, you know, this shift towards the right, the shift towards what is being called authority, authoritanism, but in some ways is just a giant break. It's a. It's a. It's a. A person or a party or an idea that's going, nope, no more. We're going this way. We're going backwards to the good old days. And if you're frightened of the change, going back, no matter what else it may entail, feels like an okay idea. And so this. This essential pull between people who are wired to embrace change and people who are wired to resist change. I'm an old guy. I'm looking at my kids going, what must they be going through? And what must. Anyone who hasn't found real security in their lives, either in relationships or work or dreams realized or whatever it may. If. If you are sitting in any kind of insecurity, it's going to be reflected back at you and exacerbated a hundred times over every day. And so every. No, not everybody I know, but a lot of people I know are just sitting in that tension, sitting in that stress, carrying it both inside and out. It's affecting their behavior, it's affecting their thinking, it's affecting their choices, it's affecting their relationships. And they're all struggling, some with more grace than others, but they're all struggling. And so to sit, you know, look, thank you, God and Jerry Seinfeld. I don't need to work another day in my life. I'm okay. My family's okay. I know I have my house, I have my health. I have my thing. For me, in that security bubble, to be giving advice to people that are sitting in essential, you know, lack of security, I. I would. Would be crazy on my part. I. I do believe in. In the things, some of which we've, you know, comedically said, you know, never overdone. To paraphrase Tom Hanks, who I saw in some panel of actors saying his big life lesson was, this too shall pass. You know, this. This. This discomfort, this insecurity, this anger, whatever it may be, or this hopefulness or this, you know, if you're sitting in a good pocket right now, this too will pass. You know, so it all moves on. Which is why I keep saying to my conservative friends, look, I understand. I understand how much change is happening coming at you and how frightening it is. Everything that is alive is constantly changing. Stasis only happens to the dead or the inert. So, you know, it's not something to be wished for. But I. I do understand the fear. I do. I get it.

[Paul Rykoff]

And.

[Jason Alexander]

My advice, honestly, my advice right now is to keep conversations going to understand that whatever it is you're feeling, there are people who are going through the same things. And. And the day after the election, you know, we were in technical rehearsals for Fiddler, and, you know, the arts community tends to lean to the left, right? So there were a lot of devastated people. A lot of really, really devastated people. A lot of tears, a lot of fear. And as we were all sort of, you know, holding each other and hugging each other, the thing that came into my mouth was, look, I know we worry about the world and we worry about the big picture of things, but here's the truth. We live in a very micro. We live micro day to day. We live in communities. We all, no matter who you are, are part of at least two, maybe three, four, five kinds of communities. Your work community, your school community, your family, your friends, whatever it may be. Communities are going to have to look out for each other. We're going to hold each other close. We're going to try and take care of each other. If someone in our community is threatened, we're going to try and stand up and. And that's all we can do. But. But I keep telling my communities, you're in a community, you're not alone. We got you back. We have to have each other's back. So I don't want to say I'm going to be out there fighting the good fight, because I don't even know what the good fight is half the time anymore. I have to learn. There's a lot of. There's a lot of stuff I have to learn. But I can tell when people get hurt. I can tell when people are afraid. And so the next few years, we're gonna have to look out for each other and for the people who are getting hurt and the people who are really scared and go, okay, to the best of my ability, I got your back.

[Chris Rosenthal]

I love you and I love that I do. This is why I need to personally check in with you every year, and this audience needs to check in with you every year. There's no episode that we do that people look forward to more than this one. And it's because of wisdom like that. I mean, you're able to capture so much of it. And I Think community is right. Especially around the holidays when people feel this sense of community, and so much of that feels shattered lately. It also kind of feels like like a last party before the fire, right? Like, it really feels like a lot of folks are living in denial. Others are partying it up, getting ready.

[Paul Rykoff]

For the big day.

[Chris Rosenthal]

I mean, there's so much of this. It's a really weird, like, purgatory period for America, right? And when you say community, it's so important and even your deliberate nature of talking to people. Because two things are happening in my world. One I talked about on the show last week, we lost another friend in the Veterans community, Zach McElwain, to suicide. And I've lost so many friends in our community to suicide. The one thing I know to do is get everybody together, right?

[Paul Rykoff]

You gotta get.

[Chris Rosenthal]

And we gotta talk. And we did a zoom and people were crying. But it was also, like, I literally said, I'm not texting, I'm picking up the phone and I'm saying, hey, I just want to check in with you, right? And that, that check in that happens in the community is so critical, but also you're nailing something so profound. I don't know if anybody else has. Jason, when I talked to Ken Burns, he kind of pulled apart this idea of grievance. And you really captured this idea of safety and security, right? Which is something that everybody is feeling threatened right now, right? Whether, whether you're, you know, a MAGA supporter or you're, you know, a trans kid, everybody is looking for that security. And I don't. I don't know if Tom Hanks is right. Like, I think generally it will pass. But I also wonder if this is our new normal, right? And maybe we've just been isolated as Americans and we haven't had to deal with people, with people in the Middle east or Ukraine or other parts of the world where security never happens, right? So as you think through the. All of it, when you're, you know, you're doing Fiddler, you're. You're the lead, right? So you're probably this trusted person, this wise person, not just in the show, but in the cast, a lot of young people are really scared and some are activated. And a lot of older people, you know, feel like packing it in. And you say, you know, you don't know when the fight's going to come. But you also said something important, which is like, you know, if something's. I'm summarizing, but if it's wrong, I'll know it, right? It's the old pornography twist, right? I'll know it when I see it. But you're right. And I wonder if that's. If there's an insight there, Jason, for how people can approach the next couple of months, because most people didn't vote for kids in cages and for meanness and for cruelty and so much of the stuff that he personally embodies. And that's why I love having you on the show, because you're a role model and you're a positive example of a man, right? Of a leader in your community and in your industry and in our country. And you also feel so familiar to people even though they don't know you. So when you think about more and more of these young people that are looking to you, how do you think about him specifically? Right, because we don't. None of us wanted to live in this world where he had the press conference yesterday. I was like, fuck, here we go again, right? And it's like, what crazy shit is he going to say today? How do you. And how do you teach and mentor people to deal with kind of the constant assault of chaos as you raise a grandchildren, right, which is thankful. Who's thankfully insulated from this right now, but as he grows up, he might not be insulated from this, right? School shootings are happening. They're growing up in a much more dangerous place than we did. So I guess a long way. How do you, how do you. How do you summarize that and think about that?

[Jason Alexander]

It's a, It's a real macro global problem. Paul. I wish, you know, I wish it all redounded down to, to Donald John Trump. It is, it is beyond him. But he, he is emblematic of something that, that, that we all have to kind of come to grips with. On my podcast, I'm really. No, really, one of the most profound episodes we had was a gentleman. I can't remember his name. I should have, I should have looked it up before we spoke because I had a feeling this would come up. But he runs an institute of forgiveness, and we had him on the show and I, you know, I kept thinking, oh, he's going to be just, you know, touchy feely, you know, blah, blah, blah. And he was actually very profound. And at one point, he, he made a good case for, you know, the power of forgiveness. And I said, but, professor, what if the person that you're supposed to forgive doesn't deserve it? Not contrite, not sorry. And he looked at me like I had two heads. And he went, oh, Jason, you totally misunderstand. Forgiveness is not something you gift to that person. It's the thing you gift to yourself. And I said, I don't understand what that means. I really don't. I don't get that. He goes, okay, think about somebody in your life who has wronged you, who is unforgiven by you. And I go, okay, I got it. And he goes, so when you think about that person, you start, your chemistry changes, you get a pit in your stomach, you get aggravated, your blood pressure goes up. It will change the way you eat, it will change the way you sleep, it will change the way you work, it will get into the way you interact with other people.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Right?

[Jason Alexander]

It's affecting you. He's not having any of that. He's fine. Right? So if you can get to the point where you go, oh, he's broken. He's a broken man, a broken individual. Some of that dysfunction, some of the, the bleed from that break in him is getting on us, but it isn't us, it's him. So, and then, you know, and so on the episode what we began, I've been again, we were, my partner, Peter and I were in tears going, oh my God. Now I understand why forgiveness is so powerful. But with someone like Trump, here's, here's what I said. I go, I don't understand him. That's the truth of it. I don't understand him. I do understand, I think that something got him, something hurt him deeply. And what we have is the result of that bitterness, a need for power, a need for self gratification, a need for, to see himself reflected in a way that is good in his mind. Good, powerful, strong. I think he could be as much an agent for good things as he is for bad things. But, but he never got his foot into the door that we consider is good.

[Paul Rykoff]

So.

[Jason Alexander]

I am not concerned about Donald Trump. I am concerned about everybody around him. I am concerned about the people that feed off of him, that follow in the wake of his charisma and, and are empowered and enabled by it. And for the life of me, I don't understand anyone who is fed by the tragedy and pain of other people. That is the thing I can't wrap my head around. And so when you, when you're asking for wisdom to come out of it, I'm telling you I'm in a listening and learning phase because I, there are people I've disliked, there are people I have been mean to in my life, especially growing up as a kid, I was a bullied Kid. So if I got a chance to be the bully, I took it. But I always felt sick about it afterwards. It didn't sit well with me. There are a lot of people out there that seem to be able to tolerate that pretty well. And I am trying to figure out why they exist, how they are fed, why there are people who I think are good people who enable and excuse them. So this is all academic. The question you're asking is, what. What do we do about it? And the reason that I'm in this crossroads is because half our country has said, knowing full well what they're doing, I think we should. I think we should try this again. I don't think half of our country is hateful. I don't think our country is bad people. I mean, there are some hateful, bad people out there, but I don't think it's half our country. So I'm still trying to understand that, what they're hoping for, what they're dreaming about, what they're wishing for themselves and their communities. So all I am left with Paul, honestly, is to go. I need to see what he's going to do. I need to see what he's going to be allowed to do. I need to see how much our structures are going to hold in the wake of abuse, and then I need to see what the majority response is to these things. Having said that, again, I go back to my other statement. I'm not abdicating action. I. I will stand as firmly as I possibly can if. If my communities and most of my communities are people I don't know. But I live. I live in a world and a business where LGBTQ is a major part of the fabric of my world. I cannot allow families dealing with trans kids or queer kids or whatever.

[Paul Rykoff]

To.

[Jason Alexander]

Be abused and stay silent. So that's a fight. I may have to stand up and fight, depending on what actually comes out. There are immigrants in my world. I don't know the full status of some of them. And there are, I'm sure, some dreamer kids that are attached to people in that world. This is what I mean about I have to stand up for our communities. But here's the other thing. There are union members in my world. There are laborers in my world. There are elderly people in my world. There are children in my world. What's going to happen to education in this country if we're burning and banning books, if we're changing curriculums, if we abolish the Department of Education and the standards that it sets and the in the best of all possible worlds, the support that it provides. If we're abandoning all that now, what am I called on to do so? There are so many fights I know I'm going to have to stand up and fight for, but I don't know what the full range of them are yet. And I follow this guy. This is such a long winded answer. I follow this guy online that I've never met that has really been impactful in my life. His name is Saad Guru and he's.

[Chris Rosenthal]

A. Oh, yeah, you talked about him before in the show.

[Jason Alexander]

And he talks about a thing about, you know, how much of us react out of fear. And he said, if you really look at fear, more often than not, it's about something that hasn't happened yet. It's. It's something you are concerned will happen. And if it's in the past, what you're really concerned about is repercussions which haven't happened yet. So almost all of fear is about something ostensibly in the future that hasn't happened yet. And he goes, you're afraid of something that doesn't exist. And I try with that knowledge. We're also fearful about the warning signs of what's happening right now, the quality of people he's picking to run departments and, and they seem to be so destructive, especially in the areas to which he is trying to assign them. So there's this fear of destruction and dismantling and abuse, and they could become reality. I'm not there yet. I'm trying to not allow myself to react to what might happen and react to what does happen. And because we also know that a lot of the institutions of our democracy are stuck in 19th and 20th century behavior and the 21st century don't look anything like that anymore. So we do need rattle it and shake it out and really rethink. So that might not be a terrible thing. There could be something quite wonderful that comes from rattling these cages and these institutions. We just don't know yet. It's. It. I might. So here's my best advice. Live in. Live in the moment. Live in the moment. You know, when, when it comes knocking at your door or your neighbor's door, now it's real, now stand up. But to, to turn your heart, your life, your. Your nervous system upside down, over. If I reacted to everything that comes across, my newsfeed on this stupid thing, I wouldn't be able to breathe.

[Chris Rosenthal]

This is why we need you. This is why I'm happy you have a podcast. It's like It's Jason Guru. Right? I mean, we get you each year and, but you're also, you've always, you know, your work is, is been kind of defined and your personality is, is enmeshed in this understanding of America from so many different sides. Right. And, and now you're at fiddle. You're in the lead of Fiddler on the Roof. Right? At a time when anti Semitism is like we've never seen in this country before. Israel and all things Israel have taken all these different turns. Can I ask you to kind of talk about that? Like 2024, December is, is the height of a level of anti Semitism we've never seen in my lifetime. Can you talk about that and how you've, you've done a lot of work in the Middle East. You've talked about reconciliation and you've worked to promote peace at a time when this is happening. What are your thoughts on that?

[Jason Alexander]

Again, I wish I could be giving.

[Chris Rosenthal]

You all easy questions.

[Jason Alexander]

Yeah, you know, anti Semitism, yeah, sure, it's, it's, it's hot right now. It's hot, but it's, it's never been gone. And that perplexes me more than why is it hot? There are, there are reasons in the world. You know, if you, depending on where your heart sits. If you look at the Israel and the Middle east conflict right now, for many people, it's easy to feel negatively towards Netanyahu and his ideas and the state of Israel and how it is executing things right now. And that can lead to an anti Semitic fervor. So if it were just that right now, I go, well, easily explained, I guess. But, you know, ever since the crowd went give us Barabbas, there has been some antisemitism in the world. It is, I think it's easy to think of anti Semitism as unique from other kinds of hatred of the other. It isn't. It isn't. I mean, anti Semitism is no different from what the Kurds are going through. It's no different for, it's just, it's, it's this vilification of the other, the minority. I think a lot of anti Semitism, I think, I think may come from the fact that not only is, are the, is the Jewish nation of the world small in number, it's only been, you know, in the tens of millions throughout history. It's never been, you know, we don't represent more than at any given time, 15 to 18% of the world population. We're not an existential threat to, to taking over and eliminating every religion of the planet. But there is some. It could be because of the Old Testament and the laws that were handed down by the rabbis in. In Judaism, focus on success has always been family and hard work. And so wherever the Diaspora has gone, within the Jewish communities, there tends to be what some would think a disproportionate amount of success. And it could be economic success, it can be educational success. It can be whatever success is. And, you know, for people that are not doing so well, when you're looking across the street going, how come that guy has power? And we've got the blackout, you start to get resentful, and the differences of people become more pronounced. So if they're praying not in Latin and English, but they're praying in Hebrew, oh, if they have hair that comes down along the side of their face and they wear black clothes, they go to their synagogue, if they don't have Christmas lights on their house, but they put a menorah in the window, oh, so it's. It's just the otherness of everybody. This is the strangest thing for a Jewish guy to say. I don't take it so personally. Don't take it as, oh, they hate the Jews. I promise you. People that hate the Jews hate a lot of other kinds of people. You know, as far as the. Is what's happening in the Middle east, there is only one answer I can give because I do know a lot of the history of this conflict. I do know what the hopes and dreams and aspirations were. And. And ultimately maybe again, when. When a month after October 7th, which was, you know, just such a horrific, inhuman attack, and then the response, and for many would consider the over response. I got paparazzi in my neighborhood, and they were asking me about this, and. And what I said then is the only thing I can continue to say because it's the only thing I know with a surety. And that is when. When all of us, not just people in the Middle east, when all of us love our children more than we love land or blood or vengeance or justice or all these other ideals, when we love our children more than we love ourselves, this will all stop. Because nobody would wish the anger, the rage, the fear, the war, the blood, the lack of promise, the lack normalty on their child. No one would wish that for them. So why don't we just stop? Why don't we just stop getting ourselves into these holes that compromise everything our children need in order to survive and thrive? And when we do, this will. This will stop. But That's a, That's a big bar. That's a high bar.

[Chris Rosenthal]

There's a parallel December 24th where, you know, you are nominated as an ambassador to a country instead of like Kimberly Guilfoyle or any other number of crazy people who are being nominated and likely confirmed for these positions. And I really think it's so important because there's these conversations around, like, who will be the liberal Joe Rogan. Right. And I think there are so many thoughtful voices that are a contrast or a counter or an alternative to him that are out there that are kind of under recognized. And it doesn't always have to be fight fire with fire. And your show and your words and your work are a good example. You also understand the politics. You've been active in the Democratic Party. You've probably seen most of the candidates in person are pretty close up. As we reflect on Kamala Harris. Right. And her choice as the nominee, can I ask you what's your takeaway from her in particular and her campaign? And I've asked you this question before. You know, do you see. What do you see as the future now that it's all shattered? You know, they're trying to pick up the pieces? You know, you're as if not more qualified to run the DNC going forward as any of anybody else. I would disqualify all of the people who are currently running it, and I'm not a Democrat. You know, there's a conversation, of course, around independence. I focused on that a lot in this show. But someone like you, that can transcend that, if you ran as an independent in California, you'd do well, I think. But there's a thirst for alternatives and for different. But at the same time, we have this kind of characterification of candidates maybe this year like never before.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right.

[Chris Rosenthal]

And now Trump is casting. So all that reflections thoughts on Harris in particular, Tim does the ticket and where do the Democrats go from here? If you were in charge and you charted a path forward for the Democrats, what would it look like?

[Jason Alexander]

Yeah, I was really impressed with Kamala Harris, and I haven't always been. He was running in.

[Unknown Politician]

In.

[Jason Alexander]

In 2020. Yeah, 20. I mean, I thought she's an impressive human being, don't get me wrong. I just, I didn't think she was a Prof. Presented herself profoundly as the candidate that I would marshal my forces behind for President of the United States. So when it got thrown to her so late in the game in this election and I started to hear her voice again, she seems to me as someone who has been sort of profoundly changed in the last four years. I was so impressed with her, first of all, some of her ideas, really impressed with her ability to interact with people, to. And to be a voice of optimistic change. And, you know, she did kind of run a little more from the middle than from the hard left. And I, Boy, I got. I got. Nobody's more surprised on election day than me because I got swept up in it. I thought, this is. This is irresistible. They kept saying, it's really close. It's really close. I go, it can't be. Look, people are walking out of his things there. You can't get a folding chair into her things. I mean, it just looked like her energy was sweeping it. I listened to Pod Save America. They were the first ones to have her campaign team on to sort of debrief the whole thing, you know, and they said a lot of smart things, which a lot of it came down to, hey, man, we had 100 and something days to do something that usually takes four years to do effectively. And I think if they had had more time, I think they. They might have made it. I don't think there was a lot of missteps in her campaign. Her ideas, her presentation, her execution of these things. I thought she presented herself as an extremely viable candidate, an attractive candidate. And I thought, you know, having known Tim Walls, not at all. I thought he was a fine asset to the emotional drive of her campaign. He seemed like someone who could be a decent executive. You know, he does come off a little bit. Play shucks, kind of, you know, a little bit Ted Lasso. Yeah. But. But I thought he was an awfully appealing guy, and I thought he was a trustworthy guy. And I thought that's, you know, what. What we needed to. To see where do the Democrats go. Yeah. Part of my problem in answering that question is the more I think about this, the more I wish.

[Chris Rosenthal]

That we.

[Jason Alexander]

Were not tribes of Republicans and Democrats, because there is, I think, in the American spirit, a competitiveness to win regardless of how the game is played. And when you have two opposing teams, the winning becomes the thing, not the. Not the game, the winning of the game. And I. I feel like Republicans are not. We are. Every side's vilifying every other side. We're not listening to each other. I know. You know, back in the 80s, when I started to become politically aware, I was doing a show. We went to Washington, D.C. to preview the show. I'm sitting in the Senate dining room, and guys that I see on TV are adversaries. With each other are sitting and having lunch and enjoying each other's company. My understanding is that doesn't happen anymore.

[Chris Rosenthal]

So.

[Jason Alexander]

Yes, if we're going to continue to have the two teams and I want my team to improve, I wish I was smart enough to know what specifically they need to do. But I think just in the macro sense, what they need to do is exactly what many of them are advocating for, which is to open their eyes and ears and ask a lot of questions about why they lost the confidence and fit, confidence and faith of people that were, were reliably supportive of their agenda and their team. What happened? What are we missing? What, what aren't we responding to? Are we overly woke? And it's a, it's a social thing, you know, that somebody that is going, I don't know how to put food on my table. I am not worried about, about whether I say they. Them to somebody who looks like something I can see. You know, for many, many conservative friends of mine, that is the straw that breaks the camel's back. You know, I make the mistake. Sometimes I see someone who seems to represent as a gender and I was brought up to say sir and ma'.

[Paul Rykoff]

Am.

[Jason Alexander]

So I'll say yes, ma'.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Am.

[Jason Alexander]

And they go, not ma'. Am. And I go, I am very sorry. Tell me how I should address you. And I certainly will. You know, but that's a nothing to me. That's a nothing burger. And for some people I know that is a whopping go go, you know, and it's so I. I don't know why we lost the faith of people that had it and why. Well, no, now I'm going to, I'm going to do one of my. I'm going to do my. What is the weave?

[Chris Rosenthal]

As the weave.

[Jason Alexander]

Okay, here's what, here's what I've learned.

[Paul Rykoff]

Paul.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Yes, sir.

[Jason Alexander]

Some of it is new. New, but some of it is not. There was a book I read called Illusions the Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah. And in it there's a messianic character who's trying to teach another character how to be a messiah. In this book, there isn't a the Messiah. It is. There are many messiahs and you can become messianic if you want to. And part of the trick is to realize that in, in the world of the universe of time and space, everything is an illusion of your own making. So how do you make a miracle? You see it and know it. Absolutely. And for you, it exists. It is. So when I was trying to adapt that book For a. For a film. I came to the moment where I went, well, that's what a madman would think. A madman sees something that isn't there, believes in it fully. And we go, well, that guy's insane. And I came up with a line that isn't in the book, where the disciple says to the master, but that's what a madman thinks. And the master says, a madman isn't a madman because he sees what he sees. A madman is a madman because he tries to make you see what he sees. And that truth is becoming more profound for me. I have come to realize more and more that you and I can look at the exact same thing at the exact same instant and have two completely different senses of what just happened. We would describe it differently, we would feel it differently, we would remember it differently. It would be different realities. That I believe is a universal truth. What had saved us for so long is given that we would go, okay, but we can make some things factual. We will call this green. We will call this yellow. We will not cross the street when a car is bearing down on us because we know that will hurt us. We can agree on some facts.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Yep.

[Jason Alexander]

And we have stopped agreeing on many, many, many facts. How we get back to creating just a set of facts that both teams can go, okay, those are going to be the rules of our game. Let's. Let's make sure we play by these rules. We see everything differently, we advocate differently, we experience differently, but we will agree these things are factual. That's what we need to do. But I don't know how to convince everybody to do it. But if we don't do it, if we don't go back to, okay, think the way you think. Do live the way you live. But let's agree, up is up, down is down, you know, white, black. If we can't get back to that, I don't think there's anything either party can do except appeal to the dopamine hits that seem to be what feed us to do everything we're doing. Now. If. If. If five things come across, this stupid phone that make me go, oh, that feels good. That feels good. I'm gonna go with that. We're in a really critical junction of. For me, are we going to hold on to our humanity or are we going to abdicate it? Every time an AI does something a human being can do, I go, well, now, what's that human being going to do? Sure, it's efficient. Maybe it's easier, you know? Yeah. Gave us more free time. Okay. Free time. No one pays you for your free time. You don't eat based on your free time. You. I had this argument with a. With a college professor the other day. I said, what's the policy on AI at the university? They go, well, they cannot write. They can't have AI write for them, but they can use it to outline what they're going to write. And I go, why? Why are you abdicating using the brain that it takes to organize your ideas into a viable outline from which to create your thesis? Why would you abdicate that to a machine? How is that so? Between the technology that is robbing us of. Every time I see a Waymo car go by, I go, what?

[Paul Rykoff]

You know.

[Jason Alexander]

The daily intellectual, emotional, emotional and physical things that we do that make us human beings are slowly being supplanted. We are. These things are pushing at us a matrix of our own creation. And we know that that's what's happening, and we're not doing anything about it.

[Chris Rosenthal]

We know you are doing something about it.

[Jason Alexander]

I mean, all I can do right now is point fingers at it and go, but I don't know the way out. I don't know how I changed my algorithms on my apps by not glancing for one second at anything that was designed to make me angry, upset, or fearful. I would heart everything that was uplifting or informative or entertaining. And in five weeks, my algorithms changed. Right? So I know you can do it. But I don't know why we're abdicating our humanity. I don't know why this is the ultimate thing about the election. I don't understand. You can be a conservative that believes in everything. Donald Trump at any given moment and his. His allies and whatever are advocating. You may think, you know, mass deportations is the only way to rattle our broken immigration system. You may believe that, but you're not going to acknowledge how painful, destructive that's going to be for so many good people. And you're not going to have that, that mission led by someone who has some compassion about it at all.

[Representative Jeff Van Drew]

You.

[Jason Alexander]

You don't want humanity in the process. You don't want a feeling human being. That's the thing when I look at good people that I don't necessarily agree with. That is my essential question of, okay, but if you add humanity and compassion back into the mix now, what form does it take? Because if you don't, it. It takes a brutal, destructive, cold form of execution. And I do not know what we build with that we can destroy. You can destroy things with hate and fear and power. It's very hard to build them with hate and fear and power. And aren't you trying to build something? You're building a better mousetrap, right? I mean, anyway, that's where I am.

[Chris Rosenthal]

This is why, this is why we, I think we are going to hear more from you in the next few years. I don't think you're going to be able to just retire to, to the back rooms and, and, and not be engaged in these fights because the humanity and the community are such essential parts of what is lacking, what is what people are hungry for and what you are masterful at, right? So as we think about you, you are very generous with your time. I want to give you kind of a final question to wrap up our annual conversation because I'm thinking about the holidays, right? And some people are going to need comfort or they're going to escape and some people are going to go on a binge of Seinfeld or some people are going to go watch you at, you know, do Fiddler on the Roof or some people are going to look forward to your, your next projects. But you do have a unique and powerful ability to connect on a human, a human level with people. And they trust you whether they know you or not, right? So as you think about this holiday, I think I've asked you this before. What is your holiday message to people listening, right? You are not just to your. I think I've asked you before to your grandkid. But this is one of those years where people, a lot of people are hurting, especially people listen to the show. They're aware, they're feeling exhausted, maybe demoralized, maybe ready for the fight, maybe, you know, there's some folks that listen from all sides, but this is going to be a weird holiday. And so what is your message to them as someone that is a trusted voice in this country and, you know, for, for all generations.

[Jason Alexander]

The lesson I'm trying to, to live more and more. And it's hard to do when you're, when, when you are feeling fearful or angry or insecure or whatever, or, you know, depressed or whatever. We tend to look at the world and reality and our realities through our eyes. It's just us. This is my window on the world. This is how I see it. This is how I react. I try more and more whenever I can to try and look at the world through eyes that are not mine. It is a often painful thing to do because when I was just in New York and when I'm walking past not Only homeless people, homeless families. And I see the guy from Seinfeld walking past them, My heart breaks because if I were in their position, I'd want that guy to go, oh, my God, what happened? Are you okay? Let me try and help you. Let me see what I can do. And if I stop and do that for everybody, a, I ain't gonna get where I have to go. And the resources I have are going to deplete awfully fast. And so you have to be selective. But what I, what I say to people who are hurting and, and particularly hurting in the holidays, whether it be from fear, anger, insecurity, whatever it may be, is if you have the luxury to be listening to this podcast and thinking about this, there are many that are doing worse than you. And one of the most effective ways to change how bad you are feeling for and about yourself is to lend a hand to someone who needs it a little bit more. And that doesn't mean pouring money on them. And it doesn't mean, you know, extreme changes of behavior. Sometimes it just means stopping for a second for that homeless person and going, hey, what do you need most right now? Or what happened? I have actually had what happened conversations with a bunch of the people that I, you know, meet out here in LA that are, that are homeless who, who seem like, you know, there doesn't seem to be a mental health issue. And you go, you seem okay. Is this, Is this your best. Did you choose this? Is this your best option? And they have stories. And honestly, more often than not, those exchanges end with, hey, man, thanks for talking to me. That's what they say. That is the gift. Thanks for giving enough of a crap to ask me a question. You know, it. If, especially if you're a Christian, my understanding of the Christ story about what made him so. Part of what made him so extraordinary was his ability to feel the pain of others. If you want to celebrate that kind of a person, I mean, you know, Christ wasn't living high on the hug. From my reading of the Testament, look at the pain of somebody else and see if there's anything you can do to help, even if it's just asking, hey, how are you? How did this happen? What can I do? Can I do anything? Whether it's giving you a dollar or a smile or buying you a sandwich at the 7 11, or getting you a pair of gloves, if that's what you need the most. And that's just homeless people now, if you, if you take that into your community. An elderly person, my mother, basically at 98. She died because her world had gotten so small that there was not much for her to get up for every day. And she kind of gave up the spirit of wanting to live. Well, there are elderly people out there whose world has gotten pretty damn small. How about knock on a door and just say, hey, it's the holidays. How you doing? You need anything? Do you want to come over and just have a cup of coffee for a minute? Huge. A kid, a school, a hospital, another. You know, there are unfortunately endless opportunities to see people who are not doing as well as you. And you don't have to. You don't have to bankrupt yourself emotionally or financially to be of some help. And I, I do promise you, you will feel so much better having done that than you can possibly imagine. My mother was right when she said, honey, my wish for you is that you live a life of service. And I, we've talked about it. I didn't think I was. And then the Seinfeld show happened and I started to meet people and I meet them every friggin day. Paul, who come up to me to go, you got me through some really dark stuff. You helped me laugh when I need, when I thought laughter was impossible. And I am so touched by that because I go, you are making my mother's wish for me come true. It's the again, if you're listening to this podcast, you can do that. You will. It will kill depression, it will kill anxiety, it will kill the sense of isolation. It'll wipe it out in, in a second.

[Chris Rosenthal]

You have made your mother's wish come true. You do that every time we talk and everybody who touches you. Thank you for talking to me.

[Jason Alexander]

I love you.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Thank you for talking to us. Your energy and your wisdom and your example is an annual gift to me and to our community. And I'm thankful to them for helping make this kind of content possible. And, and for you for just spending your. Every time we talk each year, I, I feel like America needs a weekly fireside chat with you.

[Jason Alexander]

Well, I need them, by God. You know, I'm just trying to learn from everybody.

[Chris Rosenthal]

That's the community. That's the community we need, and you're the example we need. And you will help a lot of people through the holidays, through this show, and through all the things that you do. And this is a moment where leaders will rise to the challenge and I have no doubt that you will continue to do that too, and that your sons are watching and your grandson is watching and that will continue to be contagious. And we are grateful for you, my friend. So thank you.

[Jason Alexander]

Well, thank you. And you know, needs to be said, what you do in this world is extraordinary. And the amount of absolute help and service that you have brought all your life, but particularly now, is extraordinary. You know, you're one of my heroes and I am crazy about you and I'm, I'm, I'm. I don't know what it does for anybody else, but I enjoy our yearly catch ups.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Well, if, if Trump puts me in Guantanamo, send me some reruns. Okay?

[Jason Alexander]

I will make sure you have fresh orange outfits every.

[Chris Rosenthal]

I did not ask you about Juan Soto and the Yankees and so many other things, but I would thank you for all that you do. Everyone should listen to your podcast. Go see Fiddler on the Roof if you can, and just know that there is a Jason Alexander out there who is setting the example for us all. So thank you so much, my friend. Happy Festivus, right?

[Jason Alexander]

Happy Christmas.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Happy Christmas, Happy Hanukkah. And thank you for helping us stay vigilant every year, my friend.

[Jason Alexander]

A pleasure. Good to talk to you.

[Chris Rosenthal]

Thank you, my friend.

[Paul Rykoff]

I think Jason is a perfect ending to the year. Please send him a virtual hug. Reach out to him on social media, check out his podcast. If you're in la, go check out Fiddler on the Roof and spread his energy. Because Jason is truly the kind of person we need during these tumultuous times during these holidays, and we will need in the future. And Jason Alexander is especially a great example of being a helper.

[Jason Alexander]

Always look for the helpers.

[Representative Jeff Van Drew]

There will always be help.

[Jason Alexander]

You know, even just on the sidelines. If you look for the helpers, you'll know that there's hope.

[Paul Rykoff]

If you see helpers out there over the holidays, hit me up on all the social media platforms. Use the hashtag look for the helpers. Even though Elon says you shouldn't use them on Twitter anymore. Hit me up with them anyway and keep looking for people who are spreading the light to contrast the heat. And I found one that I think is particularly perfect for this holiday season.

[Secret Santa]

Some people were skeptical at first of the stranger who rolled into flood ravaged Avery County, North Carolina this week, claiming to be some kind of Santa.

[Reporter]

You don't have a beard.

[Jason Alexander]

No. Where's your reindeer? Reindeer?

[Secret Santa]

Yet he persisted.

[Jason Alexander]

You live around here.

[Secret Santa]

Approaching people in parking lots and gas stations and even motel rooms where those displaced by Hurricane Helene are still sheltered.

[Jason Alexander]

How are you?

[Secret Santa]

Three months after the storm?

[Jason Alexander]

You probably don't know me. No.

[Secret Santa]

How could she? His secret Santa, why did you want to come here?

[Jason Alexander]

I think when people go through tragedy, they can lose their house, all their belongings. But what they can't lose is hope. And maybe we can give a little hope. 300 secret Santa dollars.

[Secret Santa]

Oh my gosh, everybody, every year around.

[Paul Rykoff]

The holidays, I need this so bad.

[Jason Alexander]

Did that help?

[Secret Santa]

This anonymous wealthy businessman travels the country. You're welcome. He gives away about a hundred thousand dollars worth of hundred dollar bills to both random strangers and people he seeks out, knowing their need.

[Jason Alexander]

400 of these secret Santa dollars.

[Secret Santa]

Jamie Gwynn was living here with his wife Melissa when a mudslide ripped the garage off their house.

[Jason Alexander]

I grabbed a hold of her, I said, well, at least we are. We got each other. We can fix the house. And it couldn't have been 10 minutes. Hyder and I remember just getting crushed.

[Secret Santa]

A second mudslide took the whole house. And Melissa, you haven't really lost her.

[Jason Alexander]

Because she's with you and she's smiling down on you right now.

[Secret Santa]

And it's those words of comfort, the hugs, God bless you, and the hope that really seem to move people much more than the money itself. That's the gift.

[Jason Alexander]

That's the gift that you haven't been forgotten about, that we do know you're there and we do care. Thank you. You're welcome.

[Secret Santa]

Secret Santa always says that kindness is the bridge between people. A bridge that can't be burned, bombed or washed away in a flood. Always there, just waiting for us to cross.

[Jason Alexander]

Maybe just make your Christmas just a.

[Paul Rykoff]

Little bit better this holiday season. I want to thank all of you for all your support, all your social media posts, all your notes of kindness, all your donations, and especially want to thank my partner throughout this journey, Chris Rosenthal, our amazing producer and creative director, extraordinary. And I want to thank our patrons, our most vigilant patrons who continue to power this show and help us bring this content to the world for free. You are powering this movement and spreading the goodness of the words of people like Jason Alexander. If you're not a Patreon member, holidays is a great time. Go to IndependentAmericans US. You can join them now and you can get special content. You will get no commercials and you can get discounts on merch and more. Much more. And I want to thank all of you in our Patreon group who helped make this year possible. Carolina ry barcott, scott mccoy, danny ritter, richard watkins, adam schultz, christine carney, omar salome, gary borjas, eric brauner, sarah steele, gary tutingian, christopher tepler, nathan holdstein, dottie gaines, mark reed, bd hanna chip robson, troy engel, carl heller, loma79 dave boboroff what's up, bobo? Eric nelson, heather bronte austin tony denton, ML linda curtis, mark bernhardt, ray skidmore, james victor, nyang golan, andrew harper, denise kipstuhl, martha jane king, david q. Paul hazer. What's up, doc? Liz busky, charles bates, lisa hazelwood, lm freer, robert eu, ben rice, debbie sharon bean, mason hendershot, matt greasing, jeffrey brockman, jim mickey, george thompson, dawn yancura, ken ashby, andrew morrison, bonnie lynn, dave petrie, lauryn hale. Thank you, honey. Rob joby tapia, kathy appenrod, christopher dow, linda carroll thanks, mom. Stephen grimsley, ozzy anna fruglia, daniel lindsey, peter hoggle, mike feggins, jane kelly, brenda ellingbow, dave tress, my old buddy. What's up? Zach garcia, leslie berger, dick richard, chris cine, brian cross, bill woods, nikki wolfman, brian turco, lynn blanch, pierce north, michael dafano, junior cashin, jim collie, sean pelfrey, william hughes tripper vincent, brian mao, mark wertman, lisa lamb, katherine scott, tim paul, ramy schatz, christian johnson, john bauer, radford due. Jim pfeiffer, vonnie shallenberg, mike tipton, the og anthony, tim fox, dan renegade, great name, marilyn beam, kim nyborg and my old friend, bill tavel. Thank you to all of you for making this year and this movement and this show possible. Possible. And don't forget, you can hit us up on our show phone number, call anytime and leave a message. I will get it. I will hear your message and I might play it on this show. So look for that in 2025 and more. But you got some time over the holidays. So hit me up and call us now on our number and leave me a message of any kind. Let me know where where you're from, what your name is and what is on your mind. It's 3177-211718-31772-11718. Folks, 2024 has been a wild one. But we know more than ever now that 2025 and beyond will be the future defined by independence. And we are not alone in our independence as America is more divided than ever before even even around Festivus. We at Independent Americans and Righteous Media are working to change that. You're helping us add light to contrast to heat of all the other political stuff going on out there. So if you're among the 50% of Americans who are independent this is your show. If you're a frustrated Republican or a Democrat, come on over. We'd love to have you. Or if you're just independent, curious, come on over. Everyone is welcome. We invite you to be a part of the solution and the future. Because our independent movement, as we've shown in 2024 especially, is the hope for the future. Country over party, people over politics, light over heat, busting up the status quo and fueling a new movement that spans all across our society. And that movement is growing now. Folks, I hope you enjoyed this episode with Jason Alexander and all of our episodes throughout 2024. If you did, please share it far and wide and invite others to declare their independence and join us in this holiday. Stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And Santa and the elves, Festivus, Pole and Jason, and maybe the FBI are watching. Who knows? But no, you're not alone in your vigilance. We are all vigilant and we're all in this together. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for listening and thank you for riding with us throughout this wild year. We're going to go together into 2025 and whatever comes next. And as we end the year, down with Hamas, down with Putin, Slava, Ukraine. Stay vigilant, America. Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas and Happy Festivus.

[Chris Rosenthal]

2A Festivus for the rest of us.

[Paul Rykoff]

See you.

[Jason Alexander]

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

[Paul Rykoff]

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