BONUS POD | 2028 Presidential Preview, The Veterans from Both Parties (and No Party) That Could be President.

Summary

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Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff

BONUS POD: 2028 Presidential Preview — The Veterans from Both Parties (and No Party) That Could Be President
Released: February 15, 2026
Host: Paul Rieckhoff (Righteous Media)

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode features an in-depth conversation between host Paul Rieckhoff and guest Chuck (former NBC anchor, now independent media host), exploring the rising prominence of military veterans in American politics and the unique potential they offer in the lead-up to the 2028 presidential election. The episode delves into the intersection of service, leadership, democracy, and the possibility of independent candidates disrupting the traditional two-party system. Rieckhoff and Chuck connect military culture, team sports, and civic values to the qualities America needs in its next generation of leaders.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Football as a Metaphor for Democracy

• [04:27–06:23]
  • Both hosts draw parallels between football and democracy, emphasizing teamwork, selflessness, strategy, and the necessity of cooperation.
  • Paul Rieckhoff: "Football is a lot like democracy. If we don't figure out a way to work together, things can get brutal real quick. And I feel like our democracy looks like Drake May under constant pressure and getting hit from all sides."

2. Veterans’ Distinctive Path in American Politics

• [09:20–11:13]
  • Rieckhoff shares his family’s multi-generational service history and his motivation to serve — reflecting on the shift from a draft-driven military to a volunteer force and its effects on connectivity and civic duty.
  • He describes how serving made it impossible to ignore the impact of politics:
    • "Politics impacts all of us and maybe no more so acutely than when you're in the military. There’s nothing more serious our politics can do than send young men and women to war." (Rieckhoff, 10:26)

3. Vietnam’s Legacy and Political Scars

• [11:13–16:27]
  • Both discuss how Vietnam trauma deeply affected their fathers’ generation and left a marked absence of Vietnam-era veterans in the White House, despite several close attempts (Kerry, McCain).
  • Chuck shares the personal impact of Vietnam on his family and uses this to critique politicians who equivocate on their service records.

4. Post-9/11 Veterans: The Next Leaders

• [16:27–19:02]
  • Rieckhoff comments on a major cultural shift: post-9/11 veterans serving while most Americans remain untouched by war due to the all-volunteer military, leading to social disconnect.
    • "The all-volunteer military is great for the military, but I would argue it's terrible for our democracy because there is no social connectivity, there is no backstop… veterans are uniquely powerful politically. But so far…they’ve been proxies for both parties." (Rieckhoff, 18:17)
  • Predicts a soon-to-come veteran president and highlights current rising stars from both sides (e.g., J.D. Vance, Wes Moore, Ruben Gallego).

5. Militarization, Partisanship, and the Threat to Democracy

• [22:15–31:28]
  • Deep dive into how Trump, by installing culture warriors like Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense, has redirected Pentagon culture: less diverse, more partisan, and with tighter restrictions on press and oversight.
    • "The Pentagon is how Trump wants the rest of the world to look... If you continue to drive people away who don’t feel welcome, it will increasingly become politically monolithic… and we see that already." (Rieckhoff, 23:34)
  • Alarming discussion on the unchecked power of the president over the military and the possibility of using forces domestically (Insurrection Act), with Congress and courts slow or impotent to respond.
    • "The only thing stopping him is himself and maybe Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan Kaine, who might be the single most important person in America..." (Rieckhoff, 31:00)

6. Veterans’ Political Identity and the Appeal to Independents

• [33:21–38:34]
  • Sheds light on the diverse constituencies among veterans — some join as a family legacy, some for service, others for economic opportunity.
  • Rising tide: over 50% of both veterans and current military are now politically unaffiliated; major opportunity for independent leadership and representation.

7. The 2028 Field: Veterans as Political Bridges

• [36:05–38:34]
  • Lists a wide spectrum of potential 2028 presidential candidates with military backgrounds from both major parties and independent ranks—J.D. Vance, Tom Cotton, Ron DeSantis, Mark Kelly, Ruben Gallego, Mikie Sherrill, Wes Moore, and more.
  • Emphasizes that military service, especially combat, translates to public trust and a capacity to serve above partisanship.

8. Building an Independent Movement & Infrastructure

• [39:21–44:51]
  • Rieckhoff details his work with Independent Veterans of America: running 100 candidates in the next election cycle, including 7–8 competitive Senate campaigns—filling the gap for unaffiliated, country-first candidates.
    • "We are the future, Chuck. I say that we’re not moving the needle—we are the needle." (Rieckhoff, 68:16)
  • Makes the case that a single truly independent Senator could wield enormous power.

9. Barriers Facing Independents

• [48:41–52:52]
  • Challenges: restrictive ballot access rules, lack of party machinery, fundraising difficulties.
  • Critiques existing “independent” officeholders like Angus King and Bernie Sanders for being functionally aligned to parties.

10. Advice to the Major Parties

• [53:27–55:52]
  • Rieckhoff repeatedly advises:
    • "Drop your party affiliation because your brand is shit. You can't outrun it." (53:37, Rieckhoff)
    • Real independence and a focus on national security, first responders, and pragmatic issues are what attracts unaffiliated voters.

11. Personal Leadership, Discipline, and Media Consumption

• [58:29–62:22]
  • Rieckhoff’s routine: up early, sunlight, exercise, cold showers, reading widely (not just news—also joy and family time).
  • Both hosts discuss the challenge of balancing news creation with staying informed.

12. Active Citizenship, Vigilance, and the Need for Engagement

• [62:22–67:00]
  • Reflection on U.S. civic culture, comparing it to Israel's sense of ever-active citizenship.
  • Rieckhoff’s mantra:
    • "Vigilance is the price of freedom." (64:26, Rieckhoff)
    • "You might not be into politics, but politics is into you." (65:36)

13. Recruitment and Activism for the Future

• [67:03–70:27]
  • Rieckhoff discusses the personal calculus of running for office, current focus is on building the infrastructure and encouraging the next wave of independent, veteran candidates.
  • Specific campaign: encouraging veterans not to join ICE, but instead run for office or serve their community.
    • "Don’t join ICE. Join us." (68:27, Rieckhoff)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Football is a lot like democracy. If we don't figure out a way to work together, things can get brutal real quick…" (Rieckhoff, 05:36)
• "Instead of a rifle, now I’ve got a microphone." (Rieckhoff, 10:55)
• "The all-volunteer military is great for the military, but I would argue it’s terrible for our democracy… there is no social connectivity, there is no backstop." (Rieckhoff, 18:14)
• "The Pentagon is how Trump wants the rest of the world to look. That is more male, more white, less diverse, less politically diverse — which is maybe the most alarming." (Rieckhoff, 23:34)
• "Donald Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen, and nothing stopping Reagan. He can bomb Iran…send them into American cities… almost nothing has stopped him." (Rieckhoff, 25:54)
• "Veterans are kind of like a secret superpower in politics that can always work." (Rieckhoff, 38:20)
• "It’s not just the middle, Chuck, it’s none of the above. They’re just throwing a middle finger up to all of it. They don’t want corporations, they don’t want corporate media, they don’t want the parties and they want to be independent in the spirit of George Washington." (Rieckhoff, 40:47)
• "Drop your party affiliation because your brand is shit. You can't outrun it." (Rieckhoff, 53:37)
• "Vigilance is the price of freedom." (Rieckhoff, 64:26)
• "You might not be into politics, but politics is into you." (Rieckhoff, 65:36)
• "Don’t join ICE. Join us. …Instead of ICE, you want to serve your community... do something that’s truly patriotic." (Rieckhoff, 68:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:27–06:23] — Football & Democracy: Culture, teamwork, selflessness
• [09:20–11:13] — Rieckhoff’s path to military service, family context
• [11:13–16:27] — Vietnam and political identity; shared sacrifice, trauma
• [16:27–19:02] — Post-9/11 veteran generation & changing politics
• [22:15–31:28] — Transformation of the Pentagon, political partisanship, unchecked military power
• [36:05–38:34] — The 2028 field: Key veteran names from both parties
• [39:21–44:51] — Building independent veteran infrastructure; the coming independent moment
• [48:41–52:52] — Why it’s so hard for independents, challenges in ballot access
• [53:27–55:52] — Advising Ds/Rs: Authentic independence & new politics
• [58:29–62:22] — Personal discipline, media, and leadership routines
• [62:22–67:00] — Active citizenship and the need for democratic vigilance
• [67:03–70:27] — Recruiting, activism, and the future of independent vets

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Tone & Takeaways

Throughout the episode, Rieckhoff is candid, energetic, and deeply committed to independence — both politically and in thought. Chuck brings a measured, historically-aware perspective. The conversation is grounded in patriotism, a sense of duty, and a practical optimism, despite deep concerns for the future of American democracy.

If you haven’t listened:
You'll catch a rare, wide-ranging look at the veterans poised to shape American politics in the coming decade, why independent leadership is both necessary and possible, and a call for vigilant, engaged citizenship — all carried with the direct, unvarnished energy of two political outsiders who’ve seen the system from the inside.

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For more or to get involved:
Visit independentveteransofamerica.org

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Final Words:
"Vigilance is the price of freedom. …If you think you can be a pedestrian right now, if you think you're not on the battlefield, then you're the prey."
– Paul Rieckhoff [66:28]

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Transcript

[Paul Rykoff]

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[Chuck]

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[Paul Rykoff]

Let's go, grandpa. Wait, you did?

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[Paul Rykoff]

You don't say.

[Chuck]

Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.

[Paul Rykoff]

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[Chuck]

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[Paul Rykoff]

Car Selling Made Easy on Carvana Pick up Fees May apply Power by Righteous Media. Hey guys, Here is some bonus content for all of our independent Americans. All of our vigilant, very vigilant and most vigilant. This is a TV interview that I recently did that I hope continues to expand all the conversations we're having on this show. Be sure to subscribe on Apple Podcast and follow us on YouTube where you can find this conversation and every regular TV and media interview I do. It's another way I hope I can help you stay vigilant.

[Chuck]

And joining me now is somebody I've known a long time, somebody that I've would feature as much as possible in my NBC days. He was founder of the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America. He had been a fierce advocate and still is a fierce advocate for veterans. And when it appears the VA is not giving, giving our returning soldiers the care and attention that they need. And he hosts a terrific podcast, independence, that's focused really on, as he calls himself, the angry middle, or he wants to be representative of the angry middle. As you know, that's sort of, I think of politics from the middle out. I call myself an incrementalist. Paul calls himself an independent representing the angry middle. So that's going to be a lion's share of our conversation. We did a home and away. I was in his podcast earlier this month, so I appreciate him returning the favor to me. Mr. Rykoff, good to see you, man.

[Paul Rykoff]

Good to see you, Chuck. I really appreciated you coming. On my way. A great super bowl conversation too. Yeah, we did. But folks here you talk about politics, but when you talk about football, it's even better.

[Chuck]

I mean, well, you know, I may have even pocketed a couple of bucks with a very conventional wisdom super bowl. It sort of went exactly like every expert said it would go, you know.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, it was also, you know, it was a really good team, super bowl. And maybe that's more of what we need in America right now. I mean, it was old school blocking and tackling. I told my sons, like, you know, I've got two young boys who play football. That was the best blocking game I've seen in a long time. Seattle is a really good blocking team. Working together 11 people. And that's kind of more of what we need in America right now.

[Chuck]

Well, that, that. Well, this is why I'm a. I've always been a such a huge advocate of football, almost more so than every other team sport because, you know, you really have to row in the same direction. You have to have 11 guys doing their job. You cannot, you can, you can have a basketball team where four guys slack off. You can have a baseball team where there are a few guys slack off. You cannot have it in football. And it's just, it is such an important life skill to get across, which is why I'm happy to see flag football, which creates more gender opportunities, gender equity There. I mean, I just think the whole concept of football is so team oriented, more so. And that it is. It is a great. A great teaching tool.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah. It requires selflessness at a time when most sports are really about individuals. And look at me and, you know, I've coached football for many years, played football, played in college, and I don't think there's anything like it because it requires sacrifice, it requires teamwork, it requires cooperation, it requires forward planning, it's obviously strategic in terms of field position and all the other elements, but I think it's the ultimate team game. And I played rugby, I've played baseball, I've coached a lot of sports. It's very hard to teach young people because it's so complicated, but I think it really instills the values, and I think it reflects the cooperation and teamwork we need in democracy. You know, football is a lot like democracy. If we don't figure out a way to work together, things can get brutal real quick. And I feel like our democracy looks like Drake may under constant pressure and getting hit from all sides.

[Chuck]

Oh, right. We have no. We have no left side of the offensive line. Right? That poor guy.

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, the left side's gone, the right side's gone, and we got to depend on the middle.

[Chuck]

Hey, before we leave football, since you coached it and you watch it in a. In a way that's probably not just from a fan perspective, it really does seem like in the last 48 months, both in college and the pros, which is defense is not just caught up to offense, but I think we're now in a mode. I mean, it was. You look at the College Football Playoff and look Miami and Indiana won because of their defense. That's why they got to that finals. You know, it was. It was. And you could say, well, you know, if. If a little better offensive performance by Miami, maybe they win that game. But the point being is that the defenses were the dominant. You know, Ole Miss didn't have one. That's why they. They were limited in how far they could go. And we see it in what happened in the NFL this year, where it was the defensive teams and by the way, two defensive coaches making it to the super bowl, which might be a first.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, I build on that. I mean, you know, defense gets you to the championship, but defense is not the difference in the championship. And I think we've seen that in both the college game and in the pro game. And what I would tell you is it ultimately comes down to leadership, and it ultimately comes down to the quarterback. And it comes down to the quarterback who's not going to make the great play, but the quarterback who makes the bad play. And we saw that in the Indiana game, you know, on your Carson Beck. I was not.

[Chuck]

Yeah, he made a bad play and Mendoza didn't.

[Paul Rykoff]

Everything else being equal, if Carson Beck makes those plays and Mendoza doesn't, it goes the other way. Drake May had an opportunity to make the game close. You know, in the third quarter, he throws a pick, he makes some bad throws. So I think it really. There's nothing like being a quarterback on a football field in leadership. It's kind of like elected office or an executive function. You think about a president or a governor, it's all eyes on the quarterback. And the quarterback is important too, because he doesn't just have to know his job. He has to know all 11 people's jobs every single time and has to be the ultimate coordinator. That's why, frankly, I'm excited about Mendoza as a role model for our culture. If this kid runs for political office, and I hope he runs as an independent, he's exactly the kind of leader that people need. He's selfless, he's humble, he's kind. He's an example of the kind of leader that we need. I'm glad that he especially was elevated during, during this last couple of weeks.

[Chuck]

I'm with you. There's something, you know, sometimes some guys are too good to be true, and you're like, boy, I hope, I hope I'm not missing here. Let me go a little bit. I know a little bit of your origin story, but I don't know if all my, all my listeners do. How'd you get into the military? Why did you. And this is what you're doing now. What's an alternative path that you thought you'd be doing 20 years ago? Wow.

[Paul Rykoff]

Well, 20 years ago, I guess I was already out of college and the football dream was. Was gone. But you. I did not expect this kind of winding path, but it started with my time in the military and it started with a sense of service. My father was drafted during Vietnam. My grandfather was drafted during World War II and spent three years in the South Pacific. And I thought that was how everybody's family was when I was growing up.

[Chuck]

You're third generation American.

[Paul Rykoff]

I am, but I was the first to volunteer, which I think is also a reflection of our times. Right. I mean, I came from an immigrant family. My grandfather immigrated from Germany, spoke no English. My grandmother on the other side came from Hungary and Spoke no English. But that generation, they all served. My other grandmother had 11 brothers and sisters, had nine brothers. All nine brothers served. All Italian Americans from the Bronx. They all served. So I came from a community and a family and a working class background where service was pretty much expected. I was the first one that didn't have to go, but I wanted to go. I wanted to give back. I felt like I owed it to my family and to my community and to my country because I was the first one that didn't have to go. I got to go to college, I got to play football. I got a great education. But I really wanted to give something back. And it came down to either the Peace Corps or the military. I viewed them both as ways to give back. And the military, you know, I wanted to jump out of airplanes and blow stuff up. And I also wanted to challenge myself in a way that I had never been tested before, and I think I got a lot of that. But it also sparked in me an understanding that politics impacts all of us and maybe no more so acutely than when you're in the military. There's nothing more serious our politics can do than send young men and women to war. And that's what pulled me into activism, that's what pulled me into this work, and frankly, still drives me now. I want to fight for our country, I want to fight for our democracy in whatever way I can. And instead of a rifle, now I've got a microphone.

[Chuck]

What kind of scar did Vietnam leave for your father? Because Vietnam scarred my father and he didn't serve. And I'll tell you the story in a minute, but what kind of scar did that leave?

[Paul Rykoff]

So my father got very lucky. He got drafted in 1968, but did not get sent to Vietnam. So he got sent to Europe. But, you know, plenty of his buddies in the Bronx, you know, were killed. Guys he went to high school with. He always told me the story of when, how he found out he was he was getting drafted. My grandfather pulled out an envelope, and he felt in the bottom of the envelope it was from the government, and there was a subway token in it. And if you felt the subway token, you knew you were getting drafted. And my grandfather looked at my father and said, paulie, you're getting drafted for Vietnam, right? And that was the way they found out. I think the really important thing, even more than the scarring, was there was a social accountability. Everybody felt like they had skin in the game, except, you know, for Donald Trump and some of the elites who got out of it. But there was an understanding that we were all in this together and there was that shared sacrifice. So my grandfather and my father will talk about the hard times, but they also talk about the unity. They talk about the diversity in different terms. They don't say diversity, but they all, you know, got out of a train together. They all went to basic together and then they all went across the country. And my father's best man in his wedding was a guy he served in the army with from Chicago. They never knew each other until they went in the Army. So those relationships, I think are really important and maybe a bit of the silver lining from those times that we're missing right now, that social connection, that cohesion. But I've also worked with countless Vietnam vets. The scars are significant and I think also cresting now in some ways, Chuck, that people don't understand. The suicide rate is now over 17 per day. And many of them are older veterans and they're suffering from Agent Orange and toxin exposures. Mental health, Covid has been hard. They deal with isolation and economic stress. And I think these times are compounding a lot of things for veterans that are making it especially tough.

[Chuck]

Yeah, look, my dad, my dad's best friend, he had a sort of. The last few years of his childhood were kind of a mess with his father and in particular his mother and his best friend, who's about a year or two older, dies in training in Pensacola after being drafted. And it just, it made him obsessed with not going and it made him obsessed. And in fact he ended up. He will say that the reason he became a Republican is he blamed Johnson for killing his best friend. That's how he viewed it. He viewed it very personally. And there were so many. He's not alone. He's different ways. By the way, the other thing that I was. It sort of. It's made me. And I'm curious how you feel about certain active. I'll just tell you the person, Richard Blumenthal. When Richard Blumenthal said he couldn't remember everything about his draft status, when my dad died, I found a file folder of every single piece of paper, every thing he needed to know about his draft status, about eligibility. And at first he was able, he was not eligible and then he became eligible and he just ended up getting a hot lottery number and he didn't have to get picked. But I remember thinking, and it was sort of one of those things that 16 year old me said, you know anybody of the Vietnam era? If they tell you, oh, I don't remember how it happened, I don't remember. Bullshit. You were. My father was obsessed with it. He had a whole. And he kept it all. He saved it all he had. Felt like he'd have all his record with him. So I've always found the easiest way to find out who a lying politician was from that was of. Of eligible to serve in. In Vietnam. When they tell you they're not quite sure, they think they got this, they think they got that. They don't want to tell you the details.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, every guy I know who got drafted and remembers that moment, they know.

[Chuck]

Their draft, their lottery, you know, everything about it, right?

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, my father talked about it, and he knew when his buddies in high school went, you know. I think there's also something interesting about Vietnam, Chuck, with regard to our politics is the Vietnam veterans took so much of that angst and frustration and disillusionment, and they took it on personally in a way that we never have. And I don't know if any generation of American veterans has. Right. That was a generation where the country confused the people with the politics. And I think it manifests itself in so many ways all the way through to the fact that they might be the only generation of veterans that never had a president. They came close. And I Talked to John McCain and other folks about this. There was a point where you had John McCain was a presidential candidate, John Kerry was a presidential candidate. At one point, I think there were three Vietnam veterans in Obama's cabinet. You had Shinseki, Hagel and Kerry. And a number of Vietnam vets said, you know, we came close, but we never got the White House.

[Chuck]

It's the strangest thing. And I wonder if it really is.

[Paul Rykoff]

That.

[Chuck]

That they were. That the public viewed a Vietnam veteran is too politically scarred to lead. Maybe they didn't say it that way.

[Paul Rykoff]

There was a lot of different, like, evolutions. If you think about, like when Bob Kerry was a presidential candidate, he's a friend and mentor and a Medal of Hon recipient. Right. We were much more conflicted about it. Even talking about Bill Clinton's lack of.

[Chuck]

Bob Kerry's story only got more complicated the more we learned about his Medal of Honor, you know.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right, right. But I think the insight is that the political trajectory of Vietnam veterans is a reflection of the way the country processed all of it. And at the end of the day, they never elected a Vietnam veteran. Now flip that around. Now we've got a vice president who is the first post 911 veteran in JD Vance. Trump has loaded up his cab with with veterans, the Democrats. I have Ruben Gallego on my show today. I mean, He's a post 911 veteran. We have long said that we think we will have a post 911 veteran in the White House. You'll probably have a couple and you can envision any number of scenarios. Pete Hegseth to West Moore, everybody in between. There's a unique moment for them to meet right now and also I think, reset the way the country understands service.

[Chuck]

Are you surprised that the scars from Iraq and Afghanistan didn't hit our politics the same way Vietnam did?

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, I think we're still processing it, Chuck. I mean, I think there's a different part of our politics, which is we were the first generation that went to war while most of America lived life uninterrupted. Right. We were the first pro chakra of the all volunteer military. So I think we're still processing now when Trump can strike Venezuela or talk about hitting Iran because it's other people's troops, children. And I think that maybe that is one of the most important things to understand about this time is that the all volunteer military is great for the military, but I would argue it's terrible for our democracy because there is no social connectivity, there is no backstop. And that's why I work so much with independent veterans, because they don't want to pick a side, right? So many of them view themselves as country first and they're like, hey, I'm wearing a camouflage uniform. I don't want to choose blue or red. I want to keep camouflage. I want to stay true. And I think it's very exciting to understand that so many of them are there and they want to serve, especially in this moment. So I think we're still processing it, processing 9 11, processing the manipulation around the Iraq war and even, you know, rewriting history. If you look at someone like Hegseth, you know, he's talking about Iraq and Afghanistan in very different terms. He's talking about being okay with leaving the Geneva Convention, being okay with getting out of NATO stuff that would have been unimaginable even just 20 years ago. And he could do it in part because he's kind of cloaked in that veteran status. And I think both parties use it. They understand that veterans are uniquely powerful politically. But so far, for the most part, they've also been proxies for both parties. And that may be true all the way to the.

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[Chuck]

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[Paul Rykoff]

2028 election where you could have a Democrat and Republican bet against each other.

[Chuck]

What do you what, at what point do you worry that about how military recruiting is changing under Pete Hegsett every day, all day?

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, I think that you and I have talked about this a bit, but maybe not on your show. I think it's really important to understand that Trump's strategy, in my view, has been extremely focused and extremely effective. And in his view, he wanted to transform the way the country operated. And the most important place to start was the Pentagon. That's why he nominated Hegseth first, a person that many of us know and thought would never get through a Senate confirmation hearing. But he threw the long ball and he got Hegseth through. And that really bust open a hole for Tulsi, Gabbard and Kennedy and so many others that would have normally seemed like a long shot, but they went for the Pentagon first because it's the most powerful, it's the biggest budget, it's got tremendous cultural influence, it's easy to move, and it's where the guns are. So when they secured the Pentagon, it was kind of the first chess piece on the board. And that allowed them to put in place, in my view, a culture warrior, because that's what Hegseth is. And if you want to wage culture war, you start at the Pentagon and you move outward. So I'm very concerned because the Pentagon is how Trump wants the rest of the world to look. That is more male, more white, less diverse, less politically diverse, which is maybe the most alarming. We don't want it to be a MAGA army. But if you continue to drive people away who don't feel welcome, it will increasingly become politically monolithic. It'll become gender monolithic. And we see that already. So you can goose the numbers in the beginning and say, hey, we've got tremendous recruiting, but that is not sustainable over time. And you have to ask a question of quality, right? What kind of military are we building? And the reality is people can see what ICE looks like. The military is more and more looking like ice, but you don't see them. They're on military.

[Chuck]

I was just going to say the ICE recruit. Look, you recruit. How you recruit is what type of force you're Going to build. Right. And those ICE recruitment videos, excuse me, where they, where they specifically addressed blue cities. I remember, you know, we started our conversation with football. I'm a obsessive college football guy. And what was interesting this fall is how often you'd see during these football games, whatever market was, the primary market of whatever team lived, it would, you know, so you're watching a University of Washington game, you get this ad that said, hey, Seattle law enforcement, are you tired of not being able to do your job right? It's this, it's this sort of negative pitch, you know, well, guess what? If you come to ice, we're going to, first of all, throw a bunch of money at you. 50 grand signing bonus, which is. That's a big chunk of change. That's. That is. That gets you out of debt. That's a, that's a get me out of student debt. That's a right size. That's a down payment on a house. That's a, it's life changing. 50 grand is, is both. Is a lot of money for a lot of people. And it can, it can alter. It can, it can accelerate a path in life. But, but you're recruiting them on this. You don't get to do your job. And essentially you're saying it's, it's going to appeal to a certain type of law enforcement official. Are you seeing those same tactics in military and is. And are more of our friends in the press corps missing a story here?

[Paul Rykoff]

Yes. I mean, you know, I've long said that Trump wants to transform society. He wants to transform the Western hemisphere, and he probably loved it, to transform the whole world. And if you want to see what it looks like, it does look like the Department of Defense. And let me go a step deeper, things like book banning, right. When they decide what books they want to ban, they can do them at military schools, because the military has to do what you say, Right. It's not like you're gonna go into Cincinnati or into Miami and have a debate with the school board. If the Secretary of Defense says these books are gone, they're gone. They can restrict women's rights, they can restrict abortion access. They can change recruiting quotas so they can move the edges in ways that will transform the complexion of what the military looks like. And yes, I think the most important, one of the most important stories is that the military is becoming more partisan. It's becoming more politicized, in part because it's built in the image of Hegseth, who, in my view is the most overt political secretary of defense we've ever had. I do think he's a culture warrior. He's got an ideological approach to the way he wants to transform not just the military, but our culture. That includes an emphasis on chaplains, for example. If you hear Hegseth talk, he's not doing Jewish prayers. He's not talking to agnostics and atheists. It is Christianity. It is a lot of white men. It has really attacked diversity. And they openly say they want to destroy dei. Right. I think it's important for people to understand that the first real DEI and initiative in modern times was for veterans. There's a veterans preference in hiring at the Pentagon, at the va, across the entire federal government, but that's a water's edge that they haven't hit yet. So I do think the overall transformation of the Pentagon is very, very important. And I think the biggest story in America, and I've said this to anybody I can talk to, is that Donald Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen, and nothing stopping Reagan. He can bomb Iran, he can send them into American cities. He can remove women from combat arms. He can do anything he wants with this military. And almost nothing has stopped him. And the Congress, in my view, has completely abdicated their responsibility. And I do think that the press corps especially has a failure of imagination around what he can do with the military to the most immediate threat, which I would argue is the Insurrection Act. He can invoke the Insurrection act at any minute. It Congress won't stop him. He'll send the 11th Airborne Corps into, for example, Minneapolis, and Congress will be protesting afterward. But the 11th Airborne Corps will be in Minneapolis in the same way he's deployed ICE and the same way he's deployed federalized troops in other places. And I think that will be a very important break glass moment for our country.

[Chuck]

So it sounds like that what you're saying is that more people ought to see what's happening right now. It's really hard to report on the military. I mean, look what they just did to the Stars and Stripes publication.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's in part hard to report in the military because they're totally stonewalling the press. They've removed the Pentagon press corps. They've replaced it with what I call the propaganda press corps, which is Laura Loomer.

[Chuck]

It's hard to call it the My.

[Paul Rykoff]

Pillow Guys TV network. Right. But even this, Chuck, they haven't done a press conference with them in two months. Right. They haven't even done one with them. And so some of these right wing activists, Matt Gaetz and others, are pissed off because they're not getting information and they're not getting access. So I do think, again, their war on the press started in the Pentagon. Before they came after guys like Don Lemon, they were removing the Pentagon press corps and kicking out the Washington Post. And it's all in coordination because if there is no oversight over where you're moving troops or even when troops die. Right. We're not getting casualty reports about where troops are dying, how many are wounded, how they're doing. And not to mention, they struck another boat last night off the coast of Venezuela. Right. And there was a survivor, Chuck, let me give you an example. There was a survivor. We don't know who that survivor is. We don't know where they've gone. We don't know if they've been interrogated. It just kind of goes away. And we still haven't had the conversations about war crimes and accountability. So I think the number one focal point for everybody should be national security, because it's where they've got the nukes, it's where they've got the tanks, it's where they've got the National Guard, and it's where they literally could put troops on your corner if they want to.

[Chuck]

It's literally the most dangerous part of government if it gets partisanized.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Chuck]

Biggest weapon that can be used against the American.

[Paul Rykoff]

And even. Not just. Not just partisanized, Chuck, but totally unchecked. Yeah, right. I mean, you know, if you've got a. Let's say he's whimsical at best. If Trump decides he wants to strike Mexico, he will do it. And then Congress and Blumenthal and everyone else will whine about it afterward. Right. I mean, he is all gas and no brakes and nothing is slowing him down. Even, for example, when the courts ruled in Washington, D.C. that the National Guard deployments were illegal, they filed for an extension because the two National Guard troops were shot in the head and they got it. So those National Guard troops are still in D.C. right. So he can even push away the courts, find an excuse, find a reason. And I think the overall strategic landscape that people need to understand is he continues to push with the military and ICE and kind of toggle deeper and further without any real block or slowdown from Congress or anyone else. The only thing stopping him is himself and maybe Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan Kaine, who might be the single most important person in America because He's probably the only one stopping Trump from doing whatever else he wants to do.

[Chuck]

What's what we saw with Milley in the first term, right? And you know, I feel like Milley's become a polarizing figure to some where simply he was just trying to preserve, preserve norms like he didn't do anything outwardly politically, he was just trying to preserve the apolitical status of the US uniformed military.

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, there's an old saying in the Marine Corps, no better friend, no worse enemy. And I think that that is true in politics when it comes to veterans. Right. If you've got Pete Hegseth on your side and you can wrap him in the American flag and he can do lots of pull ups and he can talk the tough talk, he's a very formidable political actor. And let's use the flip side. You got somebody like Senator Mark Kelly who Trump is focusing on because he's uniquely effective because he's an astronaut, because also I think an underreported story Trump. Chuck, if you can shut up Mark Kelly, you can send a chilling effect across 2 million military retirees in America. Because they don't just wanna shut up Mark Kelly, they wanna shut up me. Any other veteran who can be uniquely effective in pushing back on any of these issues we've talked about. So I think it's really important to note that in this term especially, Trump has been extremely strategic and I think he's on plan or even ahead of plan. Imagine how far he'd be if Hegseth wasn't screwing up all the time. Time. Right. I mean, imagine how much further they would be toward their goals in 2025. For Trump, in my view, was about dominating America. 2026 is about dominating the Western hemisphere from Greenland to Venezuela to potentially Cuba and other places in between.

[Chuck]

What's your historical analysis as to why Democrats, why many active military veterans just, just pause a little bit more when it comes to Democratic leadership of the military than Republican leadership of the military.

[Paul Rykoff]

You know, I think that's an oversimplification. That's changed a bit. I hear that.

[Chuck]

I know I'm oversimplifying a bit. Look, I go back. Look, fact is, a majority of veterans voted for Bush over Kerry.

[Paul Rykoff]

That's true. Yeah.

[Chuck]

You know, but a majority of veterans in the Obama, you know, it was a pretty sizable victory over McCain. But a majority of veterans supported McCain, I believe.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah. I think, you know, veterans are a reflection of the country. Right. And if you took a group of older white men who tend to be from the south, they're gonna vote Republican. Right. And that, you know, that's what the officer corps looks like in the military.

[Chuck]

So it's more. You almost. It's almost more where they. It's. It's more of. I always say we're all born with original bias, literally, where you're born, who you're born to, all of that. It's not the military itself that pushes veterans to lean, Right. It's their own cultural, essentially, formation as a child that makes them lean. Right.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah. And the military, kind of like football, is like a family affair. I mean, the oversimplification is there's kind of three kinds of people who join the military nowadays. Right. It's people who join because their family joined. It was a family business, or whether it's part of their legacy. Right. There's people who. Yeah. And then there's people who legitimately want to serve. Right. This is maybe the smallest percentage, the folks that want to fight the good fight or they want to give back. And then there's a lot of people who need health care or want the money for school. And I think that that's an important subset, too, because the enlisted ranks, especially prior to this administration, tended to be more diverse ethnically, racially, in terms of gender, and they were more gettable for Democrats, and they tended to vote more Democrat. Right now, the veterans population is different. That's 19 million people gotten out. They tend to be older white men, and older white men tend to vote Republican. Right. So I think what's really interesting is that over 50% of veterans and active duty are independent, politically unaffiliated, and they haven't had a home. So a lot of them stay on the sidelines. They will sometimes choose a John McCain or they'll choose a John Kerry. And I do think they tend to gravitate toward other veterans. But the reality is they're looking for a Mark Milley. They're looking for a Colin Powell Powell. They're looking for an Admiral McRaven, who's an example. I know you will give. And they're like most Americans, most Americans are independent. Now, 45% was the last Gallup poll. Only 27% are Democrats and Republicans. Those numbers are shrinking in the military, too, on a trajectory basis. Now, you do have Republicans and Fox News watchers and Pete Hegseth fans that are over indexing in the military right now. But if you look at it longitudinally, they are reflective of where the electorate is for the most part.

[Chuck]

When you look at the 28 field, you know, it's just. It's fascinating to see that essentially we haven't elected a military veteran as president since George H.W.

[Paul Rykoff]

Bush.

[Chuck]

Yeah. I think some would argue National Guard service with George W. Bush. I'll put that in the. It's. It's somewhere in the middle. Where do. Where do you. Let me know as a military veteran, where do you put that? Where do you put National Guard service?

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, it's. It's better than nothing. Right. But he's not a combat.

[Chuck]

It's different today. Right. If you were in the national guard in the 21st century, you may have been sent overseas. I think when the National Guard in the. In the 60s or 70s, you weren't.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right. And too often this becomes like a keeping up with the Joneses thing within the military. But I think for veterans, have you served at all? That's important. Right. I think that's important to the country as well. Have you put the country ahead of yourself?

[Chuck]

And to me, doing National Guard.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

All right. There's plenty of folks, more than most people. Yeah.

[Paul Rykoff]

But then combat service is important in understanding the human cost of war up front. Having your buddies die, you know, knowing what it's like to write a letter home to your mother in case you're killed. John Kerry understood that. George Bush the first understood that. And I think now you're gonna have a generation from both the Republican and the Democratic Party that understands that. And I think these are actually the people to watch, chuck. I mean, J.D. vance is obviously on the playing field. Who knows if Hegseth is. You've got people like Tom Cotton, Ron DeSantis served in the Navy. Almost every one of them has got some kind of military service. On the other side, you've got Mark Kelly, who we've talked about. You've got Reuben Gallego. You've got Mikey Sherrill, the governor of New Jersey. You've got West Moore in Maryland. I mean, they all have some kind of military service and combat experience. Now, how they view that combat experience is dramatically different. Different. And that's why I argue they're often proxies for the parties, but they are very effective proxies for the party so far. And I think that was an underreported part of Mikey Sherrill's victory, Spanberger's victory. They were able to appeal to a broad swath and especially to independents because of their national security experience, because of their veterans experience. And they're leading with that because most of all, Chuck, it establishes trust. And I think people don't trust politicians. They don't trust authenticity. They don't trust that they're going to fight for them. And there's a natural baked in respect for veterans that can transcend party in a way that almost nothing else can. Maybe celebrity and money, but veterans are kind of like a secret superpower in politics that can always work.

[Chuck]

That's why you and I are so in line on this. I think that I certainly view it this way for when we're trying to repair something that's broken in the moment. Right. And right now, we're where our politics is broken. And a military veteran might be the best way to go. And frankly, it's not lost on me. And I think I said this to you before that for me, there are two presidents that stand out as being the closest we've ever had to actually having independents as presidents, people that truly did put country over party. One was our first one, and he's got plenty of receipts to prove that one and the other's Eisenhower are. And I don't really think there's anybody else that comes close. Do you concur with that, or do you think.

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, a different roll of the dice. And it could have been Colin Powell. Right. Colin Powell could have been the first African American president, you know, first black president in history. Right. If it had gone differently. And I think that's important to recognize, too, because at that time, he had a unique credibility and popularity in the country that was probably even higher than John McCain or someone like that. Right, Right. So there was. There was a potential opportunity there. But I do see, especially at the local level, and this is what I'm doing now with Independent Veterans of America. We're running 100 candidates this fall. We're running as many as seven or eight for Senate, who I think will be competitive in places where Democrats or Republicans can't. But at the local level, mayors, school board, county executives, people don't want a partisan school board representative. Right. You shouldn't, in my view, you shouldn't have a Republican or a Democratic school board. And veterans are now stepping up and they want to run, but we have to help create a pathway where they can be viable, where they can get ballot access, where they can compete with the big money and the parties where we can have open primaries, something I know you've talked about and focused on. But if the field is leveled, veterans will serve and they can get things done. They can be pragmatic, they can represent everybody, and they can represent what is the biggest voting bloc now in the country, the 45% of the, of the independents and unaffiliated that are also the fastest growing percentage of our electricity, 60% of young people, every demographic. We see that people are saying no to both. And it's not just middle Chuck, it's none of the above. They're just throwing a middle finger up to all of it. They don't want corporations, they don't want corporate media, they don't want the parties and they want to be independent in the spirit of George Washington.

[Chuck]

And this is, I think, the challenge, this continues to be the challenge of tapping into this on what on paper looks like an incredible group to tap into. And yet the problem when you take this 40 plus percent that self identify is not either party. Right. They say, no, I'm independent, I'm really not comfortable with either party. Obviously when you push, you can figure out, oh, culturally they lean this way and culturally they lean that way and all of that. It is hard to find a unifying set of issues for this independent movement. This is what I, what becomes the flaw in the ointment here. Right. What seems like a no brainer on paper. Look, people pick independents for a reason, right. Bernie Sanders is independent.

[Paul Rykoff]

I would argue he's not a real independent.

[Chuck]

Yeah, well, he's not comfortable being with either major party, but he's obviously ideologically wants something a little bit different.

[Paul Rykoff]

Any caucuses with the Democrats.

[Chuck]

But there are a lot of people who call themselves independent but are decidedly either, you know, sort of conservative libertarians or progressive independence.

[Paul Rykoff]

There's a lot of different reasons for folks to be independent. I think it's really important for folks to think about the fact that independent is an attitude more than it is a political affiliation. Right.

[Chuck]

It's not an ideology.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, it's not an ideology. Right. And but what the unifying factor is they reject the status quo and they reject both parties. And they're looking, I would argue, for leaders even more than issues. And too often they're dismissed as spoilers or they're leaning. Very seldom do we actually have a chance to vote for an independent candidate because oftentimes they can't even make the ballot. They have higher thresholds to reach the ballots. They don't have the same fundraising mechanisms. And that's a problem that we're working against. But when you look at someone like Jesse Ventura, he won, he won a governor's race in Minnesota. This was decades ago. Right. And I think in many ways that's an indicator for what, what can be happening now because he had the power of celebrity. He was able to obviously master the media. But there's an independent mayor of Colorado Springs right now named Yemi Mobilotti, and there's an independent mayor of Chattanooga, Tennessee, named Tim Kelly. And there are a number of veterans running for Senate like Dan Osborne in Nebraska, who can potentially win in a Senate race where a Democrat can't. There may be one in Montana, which might be the most rush hype for the Senate in terms of running an independent candidate. Because right now we know that the Democrats are very unpopular and the Republicans are very unpopular, and independents are in a unique position to run against everybody, to say, I'm against all of it. And if you capture that with the veteran Persona, like I think some of these folks are, or celebrity, if Matthew McConaughey decides to run in Texas or the Rock decides to run for president, I don't say that dismissively because Ronald Reagan once did it, Jesse Ventura once did it. It. If people can jump in, Donald Trump has done it.

[Chuck]

Let's not pretend he was anything other than sort of a celebrity.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, the moment is ripe right now. And the other thing that I think we're close to, Chuck, is significant scalable investment. The left has the Soros of the world and the right has the Koch brothers. There's been no real billionaires jumping in to this. Elon Musk has talked about it. But there is a market opportunity here that sooner or later somebody's going to recognize. And I think it's really like an oil well set to be spiked. So we're going to run 100 of them. We're going to take some good shots. But if we win one Senate seat, and it could be Idaho, South Dakota, Montana, Nebraska, and we may see a couple others, then that will immediately be the single most powerful member of the Senate, an independent fulcrum who doesn't caucus with either the Republicans or Democrats, especially if it's a veteran, could be the most powerful member of the Senate. And that's what we're shooting for this fight fall.

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[Chuck]

I've never understood. I mean, it's been one of my frustrations with, with Angus King in there, which is I thought he could build. All you need is four to six members. Right. You already really have two foundational members of this independent bloc who I do think who if they would agree, basically we're either all going to vote for one party or the other, depending on what you're promising. When it comes to the independent Senate agenda, Angus King and Lisa Murkowski could be these tent polls and they won't do it. And I don't know why.

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[Chuck]

Which because if they would pledge to do this, they already have the backing of their own states to do this. So if they would join hands and they could have done it with Manchin and Sinema and likely recruited a Susan Collins, although I don't know. But in theory, let's say they could have done that. Maybe a Todd Young I could throw in there. Maybe a John Curtis out of Wyoming where that says, look, we're going to be independents first and we're gonna vote as a block to decide which party gets to organize the Senate based on. Here are our five demands. You don't need the majority. Right. It's exactly what you're saying. And I don't know why this has been so hard to get somebody to try to be the leader of the independents, to be frank.

[Paul Rykoff]

Well, politicians are often behind the curve, not ahead of it. Right. And I think the people want this, but if you look at someone like Angus King or Bernie Sanders, they were essentially elected with the expectation that they would caucus with the Democrats. Right. So I would challenge whether they're. I hear you.

[Chuck]

That the reason I single out Angus King is when Angus King ran for governor, he ran against both parties.

[Paul Rykoff]

Oh yeah.

[Chuck]

When he won his governorship.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

Right.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

By the time he had ran as the Senate, you're right. Democrats just said, hey, we're not gonna recruit somebody against him and if we don't, he'll probably caucus with us. Yeah.

[Paul Rykoff]

And I do think Angus King is probably the closest thing we have in the Senate to being that leader. And I've had this conversation with him on my show and I've challenged him on. But I also think we're close to a breaking point, Chuck, where we only need one or two to break ranks and defect. And let me give you two examples. Jared Goldin in Maine is a Democrat, a veteran who very easily could break ranks with the Democrats and declare his independence, become an affiliated, and someone like Don Bacon, also a veteran from Nebraska who continues to buck against his party. If the two of them came together and said, we're gonna send a message, we're gonna break the seal, it's safe out here, you can leave the Democratic or Republican Party, you can get media attention. You will have other people who look out for you and there will be money, because here's the real truth, Tuck. I've got a lot of folks who call me up and say, you know, I'm thinking about running, but does anybody have like $10 million for me if I run?

[Chuck]

Yeah. They need air cover. Yeah.

[Paul Rykoff]

Admiral McRaven says he doesn't want to run. If Mike Bloomberg gives him $100 million, he might rethink that situation. Right. So we have to, I think, simultaneously attack the systems with open primaries. We have to address the lack of infrastructure around fundraising, ballot access. But we also need super captivating leaders, and I think we're very close to seeing that. Dan Osborne, I think, broke through tremendously in Nebraska because of his realism, because he was a steam worker. You know, he's a union guy, he's tough, he's got tattoos, he's talking real. We're gonna run like 100 Dan Osbornes, but we're also one step away from getting Mark Milley or Admiral McRaven or someone like that. And I think once we get a high visibility person that can drive that infrastructure behind us, people are gonna defect. They're not happy as Democrats and Republicans. They just have to know that if they leave, they can survive. And that's where the people come in. You have to support those independent candidates and make it viable for people who put country over party. And the people that wanna kill it the most are the parties. The parties do not want us to do this. That's why when Brad Lander and Mamdani, when they won, one of the first things they did was kill the open primaries initiative to get on the ballot in New York City, because they wanna slam the door behind them. Them. The DSA ran the TABLE they worked the Democratic primary and they want to ensure there are no open primaries going forward. Because if you want to counter to Mamdani or Trump, open primaries is probably it.

[Chuck]

Yeah, look, it's the two parties are the reason why you can't it is so difficult in some states to even get on the ballot, which I know you're experiencing with what you're helping. Let me flip the script there this way. If you were if the Democratic Party and the and or the Republican Party came to you, in fact, I want you to answer both questions and they say, okay, Paul, we're, we need to figure out how to appeal to this large block of independent veterans. What's your advice to the Democrats? What's your advice to the Republicans? Is it the same or is it different advice for each party?

[Paul Rykoff]

Well, they do that. I will tell you candidly. I hear from a lot of elected leaders and leaders from both parties and what I tell them most of all, drop your party affiliation because your brand is shit. You can't outrun it.

[Chuck]

The minute you put an R or.

[Paul Rykoff]

D there, you cannot. This is the truth.

[Chuck]

Nothing but skepticism from this is the.

[Paul Rykoff]

Truth is that Americans don't trust Republicans or Democrats and their brands are sinking. You know, like I think 10,000 people are leaving the Democratic and Republican Party every single day. They're checking out. And I think it's a new normal where people can order 15 different couches from Amazon but they only have two options on the ballot. It people want more choices and that's the future of America, in my view. So the number one thing they can do is not be themselves, which is hard for them to do. But I do think it comes down to a focus on national security, for example, focus on issues like law enforcement and first responders talk about things that they don't want to talk about sometimes like taxes. Right. But I do think that most independents more than anything else want to hear that you will be independent, meaning you won't be beholden to donors, you won't be beholden to parties, you won't be beholden to ideology. And you will truly put the country and your community first. And the ones who can do that with authenticity will get independence right. And Trump knows how to play that tune. He does it. He knows what populism sounds like. He also knows how to capture culture right where you can get politically adjacent people who watch sports, who watch music. And I think those folks are more movable as well. So my advice to them is to legitimately be independent, show you can Buck your party. And let me give you a really good example, Wes Moore and Gavin Newsom. The redistricting that they're doing in their states is great for the Democrats. In my view, it's bad for our democracy. Fighting fire with fire is not good for America. And I would argue that if they want to attract independents in their states or if they want to run for president. Don't do the redistricting. Don't do the redistricting and support open primaries in your state, which would empower millions of people to vote equally in your state. That's a really easy one, Chuck. You can understand and appreciate the true cowardice of a Democrat or Republican. If they won't support open primaries, they won't support an equal vote for someone like me who served their country and doesn't have the same power as someone who decides to participate in their private primary, which is publicly funded, uses public resources and public schools. Right?

[Chuck]

Oh, I don't see how it's constitutional. I don't think this stuff is unconstitutional. I think it violates the equal protection clause. And I think the idea that I got to register for a party, luckily I live in Virginia, no party registration, so I can. I've got all the freedom as a voter. That is not the case. I believe you're in New York, not the case in New York. And that's just. I thought we used to call those poll taxes.

[Paul Rykoff]

No, that's right. That's exactly right. And I think it's really important for people to think about this. Look, I would argue everyone should declare their independence. Right. You have a lot more power as a voter if you are politically. Now, you could argue you wanna vote in the primaries, but this is the way things are going. And if you just give them your name, you give them your affiliation and you don't make them work for it, you're an easy get. Right. And I think more Americans are tired of that. And they don't feel like. They feel like the Republicans are. Are driving our country off a cliff and the Democrats can't stop them. So they want alternatives who can hold the line and represent more people. And I do think they want unity. Right. And if you're an independent, I think you can legitimately offer unity and at the same time challenge people who are extreme. Whether you view Trump or Mamdani as extreme.

[Chuck]

Let's try to get a lighter here at the end. You're trying to. You're running an independent media operation. I'm running an independent media operation. I'll tell you the One thing that I feel growing with me all the time, which is I feel like I'm so focused on content that I'm not doing enough ingestion, and I have to carve out time. And it is increasingly difficult to keep up simply because there's more good content available than ever before, thanks to sort of this massive fragmentation we're on. You know, I mean, look at the world of podcasts. There are more hours of podcasts that I want to listen to than I have time during the week. How do you do it? What's your diet? Give me your diet. How do you still do leisurely reading and podcast listening? Because I think finding that's the time I'm struggling to find. It's like everything is all geared toward the work, production that I'm finding myself missing my casual stuff, you know, whatever it is. Your sports podcast, maybe a movie pod, whatever it is. I'm curious. You're doing a lot. That's why I gotta think. And you've got a kid at home still. I'm empty nest. Yeah, I'm empty nest. I've got a little less of that responsibility. How are you balancing this?

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, the short answer is discipline, right? And that comes from the military. In part, it comes from being a social entrepreneur, and an entrepreneur comes from being a dad. But I am extremely rigorous about getting up at a very early time each day. And the first thing I do is I go get some sunlight, and I make sure I get direct sun and I get some fresh air and I get some coffee, and I get to do some breathing and stretching and exercise and a really cold shower because I want to do hard things to start my day. And I get cold.

[Chuck]

Interesting. You're a cold shower guy.

[Paul Rykoff]

I don't have a cold pl. I live in New York City, so I can't have a cold plus, and I don't have a lake outside. But I do think starting my day without my phone, where I can set the tempo, I can lay out my goals, I can reflect and get my body and my mind right is really, really key before the kids get up, before the assault of news comes. And then I do read, like. I mean, I read newspapers and international papers and blogs. I try to consume as much information as I can because part of my job is helping people navigate it. And that's the. I think the upside of this, Chuck, is that you are like a compass for people. You're an Azmuth. And I think in times like this, it's our job to help people process and Find a path through the chaos. And that's the exciting part here is I think they actually can trust us. We don't have corporate sponsors and we don't have to run Viagra ads all the time. We can wake up and focus on the things we care about. And I do think that it requires me to be especially disciplined around things like veterans issues issues. I'm covering the suicide numbers even though it's not exciting. First responders issues. I'm focused on the fact that the 911 records have not been fully released. Right. Because I know who my audience is, I know who my community is. Vets are depending on me to talk about the VA because almost nobody else does. Right. And that forces me, I think, to have a degree of discipline. And frankly, national security is the ultimate clarifier. So if I'm worried about too much stuff. Too stuff. You know, nukes are a great clarifier. Attacks on Iran are a great clarifier. I still also have to make time for joy and for creativity. So you and I talked on my show about.

[Chuck]

I know, Fallout. I know we got it. Both got obsessed with that.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right. Fallout. And. And you know, I love Landman and I watch tons of sports. But I think it's also important too, Chuck. I shut it off when I spend time with my boys. And there's nothing more important to me than being with my boys who are 10 and 6 and I coach, which I think is the most important clarifier. Because I can't turn on my phone. I can't get distracted. I've got six year olds on a football field or a basketball court and they're all looking at me. And that in some ways is the most important thing I think many of us can do, which is demonstrate good leadership and be good role models in our community. And I tell my boys all the time, you gotta read. Readers are leaders. It's over my shoulder here. My son won. Super reader. And you gotta be disciplined and read, Chuck. That's my long winded answer. Beyond the cold showers and doing lots of push ups and stretching, you got to read people.

[Chuck]

You got to read the cold shower idea. That's something. Because I'm an obsessive early riser for the same reason. I want as much time without distractions as I can. And the only time of day you can get it is somewhere between four and six.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, I mean, I like doing one of the hardest things possible to start my day because then I know I knocked out something hard. I mean, I'm not McRaven. Making my bed, making my bed's important too. But if you freeze your ass off in an ice cold shower, you're awake and you know that you can do other things after that. But I also think it's very, very important for us to talk about mental health. And it's about your mental health and making sure you're taking care of yourself. And what is, is not only chaotic times, but likely to be sustained chaotic times. This is our new normal, Chuck. There are going to be no days off from the news cycle.

[Chuck]

Hey, listen, citizenship is active. You know, I remember the first time I visited Israel, it was in 06. And look, we, there are a lot of people that have very strong opinions about Israel in the moment because of what happened in Gaza. And I respect that. But what I want to drive at that in Israel is, in Israel, to be a citizen is an active job. You're surrounded. It's, you know, being the only democracy sort of from, you know, one of the, in that region, or certainly more democratic than other, other entities in that region. It is, you've got to be a participant. It's an, there's an activist, there's an, there's an activist mindset to be a citizen in Israel. Israel, we had that in this country for over 100 years. You know, when you read De Tocqueville, Democracy in America, when he was trying to sort of figure this out and he was this outside observer, you know, he marveled at a few things, how interested and local we were and sort of how active everybody was. It was, it was participatory. It does feel as if we got, you know, and I vacillate on this. This perhaps apathy is a sign of stability. And it is not lost on me that our highest turnouts over the last in my lifetime have all come since the era of Trump, that the instability Trump is, is, is brought to the system has brought more people to pay attention and we have higher vote, we've had higher voter participation rates, pure and simple. It's interesting to me that it's because people are nervous that they show up to the polls, not because people are satisfied. And so I vacillate there on that. But I wonder how do we make people feel as if, hey, look, citizenship, it is a job and you can't be passive.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, vigilance is the price of freedom.

[Chuck]

Him, vigilance, you talk about. What's your tagline? You say it all the time.

[Paul Rykoff]

Stay vigilant, stay vigilant, stay vigilant. And I'M going to build on.

[Chuck]

Explain why you say that. What do you mean by it?

[Paul Rykoff]

Well, because, you know, I would put it in, in, in these most focused terms. Somebody once said, you know, you might not be into politics, but politics is into you. Right? And. And I think the reality that folks need to face either now or later is that your democracy, your freedom, your security, your economic prosperity, in my view, is under direct threat right now. Whether you know it or not, there is a war going on in America for the soul of America, for the future of our country, and I would argue for freedom worldwide. So my job is to. Is to fight for freedom foreign and domestic, supporting, you know, the freedom fighters in Ukraine and supporting protesters in Minneapolis who are standing up for their constitutional rights. In my view, this is a moment some folks in generation say, I wish I lived in, you know, civil rights time. I wish I lived during bni. We are here now.

[Chuck]

We're here now. I used to, by the way, I was one of those people.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

I remember as a reporter, young Reporter in the 90s, I used to think, oh, man, I, I, I. There's a part of me that wishes I had. I had something more defining for the country to cover. Little did I know.

[Paul Rykoff]

And it is literally. It is literally at your doorstep, right?

[Chuck]

This is the moment.

[Paul Rykoff]

You and I. You and I. Chuck, let's break it down, right? Talk about independent media. Media. They arrested Don Lemon.

[Chuck]

Yeah.

[Paul Rykoff]

They can arrest you. They can arrest me. They can arrest anybody with a substack account, Right? Anybody who speaks out. If you're, if you're, if you're a military retiree like Senator Kelly, you could have posted something on your Facebook and they could come after you for your retirement. The important point, I think, is that.

[Chuck]

And you're not Mark Kelly. If they do that. No, Mark Kelly can at least shine a light on this.

[Paul Rykoff]

ICE has made it immediate. I think everybody can recognize that ICE might knock at your door, and if not your door, your neighbor's door, or they might be outside at the end of your street, or they might snatch up someone you know, or they might disrupt your place of employment. I think that the immediacy of that threat and the clarity of that threat, without warrants, without badges, without it feels unconstitutional. It feels unlawful. And really importantly, Chuck, it feels deeply un American. And even for people who can't call it what it is now, they're understanding that feels deeply un American. And it's inspiring a new kind of patriotism that's really about a fight. You gotta fight for it. And if you think you can be a pedestrian right now, if you think you're not on the battlefield, then you're the prey. Right. And that's the approach I take for everybody in this country right now. Right.

[Chuck]

So when are you running for office?

[Paul Rykoff]

If it becomes viable for an independent, Chuck. Right. I mean, and that's the truth. Like, I have thought about running for office. I've been recruited by both parties, actually.

[Chuck]

You're a New York City resident, right?

[Paul Rykoff]

I am a New York City resident, and I am. I am a political independent. If I was a billionaire, maybe I could run against Kathy Hochul as an independent. And if she was running against someone like Stefanik, maybe there's a pathway for me. But the reality is I'm trying to build the infrastructure for people like me and for thousands of others who want to run. So that's where I'm focused right now, is using my microphone to fight for freedom and democracy and to try to create a pathway for others. And that's really why what we're building with independent Veterans of America is so important. We have to make it viable for people like me and maybe for you, Chuck. You know, I assume you're politically independent. We need folks like you in the game as well. But we're starting with veterans as a tip of the spear because we think it's the easiest to understand.

[Chuck]

I think they're the most credible leaders we have.

[Paul Rykoff]

We want to create a. We want to create a model for veterans that's scalable for any independent American that wants to run for office. So for now, now I'm building the machine. I'm supporting my brothers and sisters. I'm excited about the candidates that we've got. And I'll tell you one other thing, Chuck. I say this a lot. I'm kind of like Zelensky. I don't need a ride. I need ammo. Right. We need ammunition for this fight.

[Chuck]

And so where do people go? Let's say they want to help you out.

[Paul Rykoff]

Independentveteransofamerica.org you can help us recruit, train, support independent veterans to run for office, but also to be actors in their community. And there's a campaign we just launched yesterday, Chuck, that I think is important. We're focusing specifically on veterans because one third of ICE agents are veterans. ICE is heavily recruiting veterans. We're saying, don't join ice. Join us. Join us. Instead of ice, you want to serve your community. You want to lead for the people around you. You want to do something that's truly patriotic and not do something criminal that might end up putting you in jail down the line. Don't join ice, join us. We need you. Your country needs you. You, you don't have to run for office, but you can start at school board. And if that's not interesting to you, you can support other people who can. And we are the future, Chuck. I say that we're not moving the needle. We are the needle. And the future of politics in America is independent. And we're recruiting. So, Chuck, I hope you can run one day.

[Chuck]

Look, man, your enthusiasm is infectious and your determination is, you know, let's, let's just say that you strike me as somebody that ought to be at the front of this line, not just the, not just the head recruiter, brother.

[Paul Rykoff]

Well, you know, I'm trying to be effective in whatever way I can. If that moment comes and I can.

[Chuck]

Meet it, well, get those boys raised. I do think focus on that. This politics ain't great for kids.

[Paul Rykoff]

No. And look, Chuck, that's a real thing, too. I got little kids. And you know that. It's a very difficult environment. But I also will tell you, I'm not kicking the can down the road. I do think in this year, in this moment, moment, I want to create hundreds of George Washington's. Right? Hundreds of Dan osborne's, hundreds of McRavens. And they're ready to go, Chuck. Every day we hear from more. That said, you know what? I never wanted to get in, but I'm in now. And ICE in particular has been a really activating threat in a way I never could have imagined. So I hope it's not just veterans. I hope it's teachers and firefighters and even icons, iconic media figures like yourself.

[Chuck]

Paul Rykoff, always fascinating to talk with you. I always learned something. And more importantly, I always feel a little bit better about being an American.

[Paul Rykoff]

Well, I feel the same, Chuck. Appreciate all your public service and your years of leadership and public service. Thank you, Chuck.

[Chuck]

You got it. And we got one more episode of Fallout, right, for this season.

[Paul Rykoff]

I haven't watched the last one.

[Chuck]

Neither have I. I know.

[Paul Rykoff]

No.

[Chuck]

No worries. Neither have I.

[Paul Rykoff]

Why it's so damn good.

[Chuck]

I, I, I have. Yeah. I'm trying to. Is it real life or not?

[Paul Rykoff]

I'll tell you what. It, it as we talked about on my show. It is. It is. It has definitely got a lot of parallels to our real life right now.

[Chuck]

Well, it's sort of what I love about it is I think it's sort of like, here's an extreme ending. If we take the wrong path. Path.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah. I mean, if you saw Handmaid's Tale and you were like, oh, my God, that could be our future. Fallout is an even further extension of how bad it can get if you don't stay vigilant.

[Chuck]

Well, especially in the relationship with corporate America, which is.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

The most fascinating bad guy template that I feel like all of Hollywood is shifting towards these days.

[Paul Rykoff]

Oh, yeah.

[Chuck]

As they become more corporate. That's the idea.

[Paul Rykoff]

Oh, yeah. And. And the Epstein files.

[Chuck]

Where do we watch Fallout, by the way?

[Paul Rykoff]

I. We talked about this. Unfortunately, you have to watch it on Jeff Bezos's Prime. Yeah, but.

[Chuck]

But it's an anti corporate screen on Jeff Bezos's Prime. You can't make it up.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah, well, if you want to create the opposite of. Of Jeff Bezos, it's somebody like Dan Osborne, who's been the guy turning the wrench. And. And so that. That's going to be next season on some network. We're going to do a different kind of hero. And they're not going to be the billionaires. They're going to be the citizens.

[Chuck]

That's right.

[Paul Rykoff]

And the music is really good. And everything else is really good, too. Right. I mean, it's so good. It's.

[Chuck]

It's very good. It is. It is. All right, brother, talk soon.

[Paul Rykoff]

Thank you, sir. All right, folks, I hope you enjoyed this extra bonus content. Be sure to subscribe and share and rate on Apple podcasts and on YouTube and spread the word about what we're building here at Independent Americans. I will continue to bring you regular episodes. I will continue to bring you quick response pods. It's another way to unite our community Continue to bring light to contrast the heat and another way to help you stay vigilant America tells me the left and right Our dreams for those without a clue and when you wait it's time to grow and it's not cool to believe in school but if I can say one thing I've seen the children of the revolution and the good trouble they can bring he says the red and blue are dead and independent is an attitude an island in the sea of rhetoric and right our dreams.

[Chuck]

For those without a clue and when.

[Paul Rykoff]

You wait it's time to grow Power by righteous media.