Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Episode 448 Recap (Feb 24, 2026): "Can This Independent for Governor Win Michigan? w/ Mayor Mike Duggan"
Episode Overview
This episode of Independent Americans features a compelling interview with Mayor Mike Duggan, the longtime Detroit mayor who recently declared his independence from the Democratic party and is now running for governor of Michigan as an independent candidate. Host Paul Rieckhoff explores Duggan's reasons for leaving the party system, his campaign's progress, how he defines independence, his policy stances on hot-button issues like ICE and Trump-era tariffs, the challenges of running outside the traditional parties, and what his candidacy means for Michigan and the broader independent movement. The episode also covers important national topics like the State of the Union address and the ongoing war in Ukraine.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Setting the Stage: State of the Union & Political Climate
- Paul opens with a breakdown of President Trump’s upcoming State of the Union address and historic low approval ratings with independents—just 26% approval (03:18).
- National mood is one of division; both major parties are losing support as independents grow.
“His [Trump’s] approval rating with independence has hit a new low. He is down to 26%... More and more Americans are unhappy with just about everything he’s doing.”
— Paul Rieckhoff (03:18)
- The fourth anniversary of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is acknowledged, celebrating Ukrainian resilience.
2. Introducing Mike Duggan: Independence in Michigan
- Mike Duggan is polling neck and neck with both Democratic and Republican candidates—demonstrating viability for independents (13:50).
- Duggan recounts Detroit’s challenges—bankruptcy, failing services, population loss—and his bipartisan family background (17:09).
"I grew up in a house that, well, we didn’t hate each other because we were in different parties. The discussions were lively."
— Mike Duggan (17:09)
3. Leaving the Democratic Party: Motivation & Fallout
- Duggan explains frustration with partisan gridlock in Lansing, leading him to offer voters a new choice (19:24).
- Despite being cut off by Democratic party infrastructure, Duggan enjoys backing from both longstanding union allies and business interests (20:06).
“As mayor I had huge Democratic and Republican support as a nonpartisan mayor... 17 traditional Democratic unions came out and endorsed me.”
— Duggan (20:06)
4. Polling & Path to Viability
- Duggan’s polling climbs steadily from 15% to over 30%, matching major-party rivals (22:28).
- His approach: hands-on, town hall-focused, community engagement—contrasted with traditional party campaign strategies.
“Republicans and Democrats are in the room together and... we can have a conversation where we can disagree with each other and you can be in a room with your neighbors and nobody is trying to cancel you or criticize you... the momentum is just remarkable.”
— Duggan (22:28)
5. Defining Independence: Message and Governance
- Duggan commits to non-involvement in legislative races and to governing by building nonpartisan consensus (27:27).
- Education reform and pragmatic economic policy (e.g., targeted incentives, opposition to upfront company handouts) as examples of nonpartisan solutions.
“I’m not running to be the Democrats’ governor or the Republicans’ governor. I’m running to be your governor."
— Duggan (29:08)
6. Washington, Trump, and Cooperative Federalism
- Navigating Trump: Duggan stresses practical cooperation with federal authorities, regardless of party, citing Detroit’s success in crime reduction and economic initiatives (30:37).
“If I can partner with you, I will. If I have to fight with you, I will. But in five years, you have not seen Detroit be on the radar."
— Duggan (30:37)
- Duggan publicly opposes Trump’s tariffs on Canada for hurting Michigan’s economy, and describes instances where his advocacy contributed to bipartisan wins, like saving jobs at Selfridge Air Force Base (33:27).
7. ICE Controversy and Law Enforcement
- Duggan describes Detroit’s policy: police don’t enforce federal immigration law but do cooperate with ICE detainers for felons (35:47).
- Rieckhoff presses on the evolving, controversial conduct of ICE, especially recent cases involving harm to citizens.
- Duggan refuses calls to eliminate ICE, distinguishing responsible law enforcement from failures and abuses in the system (38:36).
“I’m not saying ICE should be eliminated. That’s not my position... I think that’s a reasonable position. I know some people disagree with that."
— Duggan (38:36)
- Emphasizes robust accountability for all law enforcement agencies, including Detroit PD’s record on transparency and de-escalation during protests (39:53).
8. Structural Campaign Challenges for Independents
- Signature requirements: Duggan needs 30,000 signatures statewide to qualify for the ballot (42:14).
- Despite loss of party fundraising tools, Duggan out-raises party rivals with broad in-state support (43:12).
- Notes the challenge of facing national party machines that don’t prioritize Michigan’s needs.
9. Independent Movement: National Significance
- Rieckhoff notes Duggan is at the forefront of a national shift: "Yours is maybe the most important race in America... in showing that Democrats and Republicans can lose and that an independent can win..." (44:20).
- Duggan calls for continued grassroots support and outlines plans to build national independent fundraising (43:12).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On leaving party politics:
"In our state House in Lansing... everything is about, does this help me get the majority?... Michigan is such a purple state. Everything is about, does this help me get the majority?... So I thought maybe it’s time to offer voters another choice."
— Duggan (18:30) -
On what independence means:
"There are people of goodwill in both parties. And if Michigan elects an independent governor, it’s gonna be a hell of a message... that if you don’t stop fighting with each other and solve problems, we have another choice."
— Duggan (29:08) -
On ICE:
"You know, Paul, you and I may disagree on this... I’m not saying ICE should be eliminated. That’s not my position... when [ICE] wants to take a person who’s committed a felony in Detroit and is an undocumented immigrant, I think that’s a reasonable position. I know some people disagree with that."
— Duggan (38:36) -
On campaign obstacles:
"We’re now trying to figure out how to build up a national fundraising operation for those people who want to have a third choice. And right now, I’m the one governor candidate in America that’s in a dead heat as an independent."
— Duggan (43:12) -
On partisan attacks:
"The Democratic Party itself has been really helpful to me because they basically attack me every single day... And so the fact that the Democrats have been so obsessed with attacking me is the reason that I’ve gone up so quickly."
— Duggan (25:06)
Important Timestamps
- 03:18 — Trump’s State of the Union, approval ratings among independents
- 09:59 — Whistleblower Ryan Schwank on ICE training failures
- 13:50 — Mike Duggan's introduction and context for his campaign
- 17:09 — Duggan on his political heritage and Detroit’s turnaround
- 20:06 — Duggan reflects on union and bipartisan support after leaving the Democrats
- 22:28 — Duggan describes campaign style and surging poll numbers
- 27:27 — Duggan defines what independence means
- 29:08 — Duggan details nonpartisan policy approach
- 30:37 — Handling Trump and major federal policy impacts on Michigan
- 33:27 — Opposition to tariffs, federal infrastructure, and economic development
- 35:47 — Detroit’s approach to ICE, law enforcement, and community trust
- 38:36 — Duggan’s position on ICE and law enforcement accountability
- 42:14 — Signature requirements and campaign structure for independents
- 43:12 — Fundraising outside the party system
- 44:20 — Significance of Duggan’s campaign for national independent movement
Conclusion
Mike Duggan’s independent gubernatorial bid is presented as a bellwether for both Michigan and the emerging national independent movement. By drawing on both pragmatic success in Detroit and dissatisfaction with hyperpartisan politics, Duggan aims to offer a viable third choice—one that resonates with Michigan’s character as a purple battleground. The conversation delves honestly into policy, process, and the difficulties of forging a new path, while host Paul Rieckhoff frames the race as a case study in breaking the two-party status quo.
To get involved or learn more:
Final words:
“If you like what you’re hearing, go back and check out all our conversations with independent candidates... we’re not just moving the needle. Independents are the needle, 45% and growing.”
— Paul Rieckhoff (46:02)
For anyone seeking to understand the shifting ground of American politics, and the possibility of real independent success, this episode is a can’t-miss.