← Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Eugene Mirman - Comedy Under Fire: On Kimmel, Colbert, Trump’s Attacks on Free Speech
00:52:48
Comedians are under attack. The MAGA machine has pushed Stephen Colbert off the air, gone after Jimmy Kimmel, and skipped a comedian at the White House Correspondents Dinner for the first time in memory. That's not an accident — it's the playbook of every authoritarian regime that ever feared a punchline. Paul Rieckhoff sits down with his old college friend, beloved comedian and actor Eugene Mirman — Bob's Burgers, Flight of the Conchords, and the new special Here Comes the Whimsy — for a candid, funny, and unexpectedly moving conversation about what it means to make people laugh while the rigged two-party system burns and Trump and the executive branch goes all gas, no brakes.
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- [00:00]
Mackenzie
My name is Mackenzie and I started a GoFundMe for the adoptive mother of a nonverbal autistic child. The mother had lost her job because she wasn't able to find adequate care for this autistic child. So she really needed some help with living expenses, paying some back bills. So I launched a GoFundMe to help support them during this crisis. And we raised about $10,000 within just a couple of months. I think that the surprising thing was by telling a clear story and just like really being very clear about what we needed, we had some really generous donations from people who were really moved by the situation that this family was struggling with.
- [00:47]
GoFundMe Announcer
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- [01:30]
Eugene Mirman
We absolutely could not have this conversation in a genuinely authoritarian country. That doesn't mean that, like, Trump isn't an obvious, like, person with obvious factors, tendencies, you know what I mean? Like, it doesn't betray that. He just, you know, I think that America is a little too big and a little too used to freedom to be truly, wholly silenced. But that isn't to say that, like, Colbert isn't being fired.
- [02:15]
Paul Rykoff
Welcome to Independent Americans. Welcome to episode 509, Paul. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff and I'm coming to you from New York City, usa, with a very special episode that's going to bring you the five Eyes. I bring you in every single show. Independence, integrity, information, inspiration and impact. Our special guest is going to bring all that and then some. He's a man I've known for over 25 years. We went to college together, we used to work in the same radio station. And now he is globally recognized, respected and loved as one of the most important comedic voices of our time. You know him from Bob's Burgers, you know him from Flight of the Concords. You know him from his many comedy specials, from opening for amazing bands all across America. And he has a new special now called Here Comes the Whimsy that is absolutely hilarious. He is the great Eugene Mirman, and he sat down with me for an extended, candid, funny, thoughtful, heartwarming conversation. These are tough times. People are divided. But I always want to bring you light to contrast the heat. If you're new here, I hope you find that in this show and in all of our shows. But comedy is meeting the moment more now than maybe ever before. Comedy can add perspective, criticism, and help be a vital part of our democracy. It always has been, but especially now, as Trump targets comedians. He's coming after Stephen Colbert, he's coming after Jimmy Kimmel, and he might come after our guest in this show, but he's trying to squash comedians because they're so effective, they're so important, they're so vital, and they help us all meet the moment and stay vigilant. And our guest today is going to do that. He's the great Eugene Mirman. I'm so thoughtful, so grateful that he sat down with me. He just came off a harrowing car accident that he's going to talk to us about that has an interesting political angle. We're going to talk about whether or not he thinks Trump is funny. We're going to talk about J.D. vance and Pete Hegseth and comic books and much more. It's a really great conversation that I hope is a break from the news and politics and national security stuff we do all the time. If you like it, please share it far and wide and invite others to declare their independence. All the links are in the show notes and you can, of course go to our website and our YouTube page. But here it is, one of my favorite conversations we've ever done with my old friend, the brilliant, hilarious, thoughtful Eugene Merman. He's here right now to help us all stay vigilant. Ladies and gentlemen, independent Americans around the country and around the world, we have a very, very special treat. I've been so looking forward to this for a long time. Some of you have told me that you're looking forward to it as well. Our guest is a brilliant comedian and actor known as, known best maybe for his role voicing Gene Belcher on the great television series Bob's Burger. He was a regular on Flight of the Concords, where he played the landlord. He was on Adult Swims, Delocated. He co founded Pretty Good Friends, a comedy company that started in the basement of Brooklyn's Union Hall. It's become kind of legendary. He had a special on comedy Central. He was named the best New York City comedian by the Village Voice, one of the 10 best comedians of the last decade by Pace Magazine. The great John Hodgman, who I've been honored to know, called him the most heartwarming person I know, which I think is really appropriate. He's also open for a lot of great bands. The Shins, Modest Mouse, Yoletango, Gogo Bordello Cake, who I love. He is a graduate of Hampshire College in Western Massachusetts, where I first met him when he was doing a design your major program. He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in comedy and his one hour routine was his thesis, which I remember because we were friends. He has a new special now called Here Comes the Whiskey. Sorry, Here Comes the Whimsy. Might need some whiskey. But it is wonderful. It is fantastic. It is so funny. We're going to talk to him about that and more. The great and powerful Eugene Mirman is here on Independent Americans. Welcome, my friend.
- [06:22]
Eugene Mirman
Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here.
- [06:26]
Paul Rykoff
It's been a long time since I've actually, like, seen you.
- [06:29]
Eugene Mirman
I know, I know, I know. Yeah, it was very fun also watching you, like, you know, sort of like rise as this voice of sanity in New York City, like throughout the 2000s. It was like, it was just a very funny, like, oh, my God, I know that guy from college.
- [06:50]
Paul Rykoff
I felt the same way because it's been really, really exciting to watch you do this because I remember, like when we first met in college, I think at some point you said, I think we met at WAMH at the radio station.
- [07:01]
Eugene Mirman
I think so. Yeah.
- [07:02]
Paul Rykoff
Right. And I had a radio show and you had a radio show and, and I was doing a political and news radio show and you were doing comedy. And you said, me, I'm majoring in comedy. And I was like, holy shit, you can major in comedy. That's amazing. And you, you have done it, like, you majored in it, you did it in college, and you're living your dream and you're doing this amazing thing that shows, I mean, me and so many other people what's possible.
- [07:28]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah, I mean, yes, it's funny having this idea in college and then it actually, like, what's so weird in hindsight is like, it was just really practical. Like all the stuff I did in college to graduate and to like, do, like to make an hour stand up act, to promote it, to get ready for it, is really all the things you do to become a comedian. So what seemed at the Time, like, so much less practical of a major than even, like, English turned out to be, like, really kind of specific and detail oriented, and in a sense, was like the building blocks of, you know, what I ended up doing for, you know, the years to come. It sort of taught you to look at anything as this sort of problem that you could potentially solve. Like, you know, regardless of how you go about, you know, normally becoming a comedian or whatever else, you could just be like, okay, how do I get, like, 20 people to come to this show? And then it's like, I guess I hand out flyers and I would, like, print, you know, thousands of flyers and hand them out in, like, Harvard Square at the time. And then, you know, in New York, like, slowly building email lists and I don't know, it's. It's when. When the. When the goals, like, not so. Like, when you just set it a little above whatever you're doing, it feels, like, achievable.
- [08:50]
Paul Rykoff
It was. It was. It was happening, like, even when we were at college, because I think I remember your flyers. Did your flyers have that little picture of you when you were a kid that you used?
- [08:59]
Eugene Mirman
Like, they might have had just, like, a little stick figure with me, as, I mean, I would do, you know, I probably used way too many fonts. Like, I remember at some point, some friend being like, you know, you're only supposed to use, like, one or two. And I was like, oh, I don't know anything. Like, this is all trial and error, which is also like, what standup is. Like, you get on stage, you try something, and people are like, that's not funny. And then you're like, all right, well, let me try it this way. And then, you know, so, yeah, I would put up posters in downtown Amherst, at Amherst College, in Hampshire, at Northampton. Like, I would. You know, I didn't. I didn't know how. What you do. And that's what I did.
- [09:34]
Paul Rykoff
And you were. You were on wamh, right?
- [09:37]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah, I did a radio show at Mount Holyoke for a while, and then I did one at Amherst for a while, because at the time, Hampshire had no radio station. It might have eventually gotten some sort of Internet station. But when we were there, you know, I. Yeah, I definitely. I had a show at Amate for, you know, I don't know if it's a year, two years, or whatever. Yeah, that was. I did it there for a while.
- [09:59]
Paul Rykoff
I remember being in my room group with my roommates and listening to it because we all thought it was so funny, and it was just you doing, you know, all kinds of stuff and
- [10:09]
Eugene Mirman
trying stuff out, taking callers and. Yeah, you know, and you remember, you remember that.
- [10:14]
Paul Rykoff
I mean you probably remember if you worked at WMH part a big part of your audience was a prison nearby. Oh yeah, you get calls from the prison.
- [10:24]
Eugene Mirman
I, you know what, I definitely got some calls, but I also got a letter from someone that was like, you know, really insane and like so, so weird. And I, you know, I don't know if you can imagine. I got as a college student very few letters normally from prisons and no, and not like a, you know, a handwritten, like it wasn't a manifesto but it just, it was dense with information and, and I don't think exactly threats, but very weird. And weird enough for me to go to the like, I think Amherst police and have them like they probably, I don't know if they still have it, but it was like a thing where they were like, yeah, it's odd, but don't worry, like, go back to your hippie school, you weirdo. But they were very polite. And yeah, I, but yes, I would get all sorts of odd, odd calls from all sorts of folk.
- [11:18]
Paul Rykoff
So for folks that don't know the kind of the legend of the five colleges, right. I mean there you said, you know, the hippie weirdo school. You were at Hampshire, which had no grades, right? Ken Burns has been on this show, who's been there. There are other notable folks, but Hampshire was a hippie kind of weirdo. No grade school, right? Amherst was like good.
- [11:41]
Eugene Mirman
Well, I was like the number one college. But the thing that's so funny about Hampshire is when you hear about it, you're like, there's no grades and you can design your major. And when you get there you're like, oh my God, I actually have to be in charge of my own like graduation and education. And it turns out like, yeah, you could get a C or you could get a very detailed like one page description of your like faults and your, your like achievements. And you're like, oh, this is this. It's like, it's actually like so much more rigorous than like, I think all the people who are kind of like, we're going to have a fun time. Imagine. Which is also, I mean first of all, it's quite sadly Hampshire is closing. But also it did, you know, if you made it through Hampshire, I think it gave you a lot of skills for life to really do great. But then a lot of people were like, I need someone to tell me like what classes to take because this is chaos, you know?
- [12:40]
Paul Rykoff
Do you remember the Scooby Doo Legend of the Five?
- [12:44]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah. I think Scooby Doo might sadly predate Hampshire. But you. Yes. I think the debate was whether Hampshire was, what, like, Scooby or
- [12:54]
Paul Rykoff
Scooby is UMass. So Scooby's UMass. Scooby's UMass supposed to be the dumb goofy guy, right? Shaggy is supposed to be Hampshire. And then there's always a question of, like, Thelma and Daphne. One is Smith, one is Holyoke. And then who's, like, the preppy Biff looking guy?
- [13:13]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah, yeah. I forget his name, but he's obviously Amherst.
- [13:16]
Paul Rykoff
He's supposed to be Amherst, right?
- [13:18]
Eugene Mirman
I think. I think he's the reason that theory, like, that came down from. Okay, that guy's Amherst. So what about the others?
- [13:25]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, well, I think part of that was when you had the radio show. I don't even know if you remember this, that you and I had a thing where I would call in and be Bubba, the dumb guy from UMass. Do you remember that?
- [13:35]
Eugene Mirman
I remember that you'd be Bubba. I forget the. Like. But yes, you'd call it all the time as Bubba.
- [13:40]
Paul Rykoff
He was bubba, the dumb UMass kid who would threaten to beat up everybody from Amherst and Hampshire. Which is not, like, not unrealistic because there was a time each year, I don't know if this happened in Hampshire where, like, hundreds of UMass kids would invade Amherst and try to just destroy us with snowballs and ice. Every year there'd be this invasion of kids where it was like. It was kind of like an eat the rich thing where the public school from up the hill would send all the kids to the private little elite college on the mountain. And there was class war.
- [14:11]
Eugene Mirman
Essentially, the people who came to Hampshire, like, I remember, like, somebody walking out of my hall, I think quite literally from Canada being like. And this is what, 94 something, 5 being like, we heard that this is the best place to buy marijuana.
- [14:28]
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- [14:35]
Eugene Mirman
Another pina colada? Yes, please.
- [14:37]
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- [14:41]
Paul Rykoff
Fantastic.
- [14:42]
GoFundMe Announcer
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- [14:43]
Eugene Mirman
You're hired and you're hired.
- [14:45]
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- [15:09]
Juan Naula
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- [15:18]
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- [15:25]
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- [15:49]
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- [15:59]
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- [16:57]
Eugene Mirman
people like that's, that's who invaded. Somebody from like Montreal driving to Florida and I think we were all like, we don't have any, but good luck. Like you're not wrong. Like I would just keep wandering halls and I'm sure you'll, you'll, you'll find you'll succeed.
- [17:13]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, there was definitely a higher, a higher likelihood of finding marijuana at Hampshire back when it was, you know, seems like strange times when it was illegal and you had to know, try to do a drug deal to get marijuana. But I also Remember another Legends of Hampshire where we'll have to pour a little out for Hampshire. Throughout this conversation, if folks haven't heard, Hampshire is closing. It's, I think, a very terrible and sad situation, and I will not miss an opportunity to call out my alma mater, Amherst, that has, like, a $2 billion endowment and could have bailed out and helped Hampshire and didn't. So I think that's a terrible abandonment of our friends in the five college. But I do remember one of the Legends of Hampshire was trip or treat. When, like, the legend was right and they would tell me. I remember being a. Being a pre frosh and visiting. I was a football recruit and they were like, oh, in Hampshire on Halloween, they basically let all the kids go in the quad and do whatever kind of drugs they want.
- [18:05]
Eugene Mirman
So definitely Halloween was trick or treat. What I don't know is if, like, people did. Like, there was definitely, like, we had fireworks, like, meaning our holiday. And like, I don't know how much money Hampshire had. So it was like some fireworks. And I don't know if people. I'm sure some people did drugs, but. But it wasn't like. It was more a giant fun party is sort of my recollection. Like, my recollection isn't like, you know, people taking away, like, mumbling, tripping people. I think it's more just like it was a great big party with, like, costumes and people would come from various campuses and stuff.
- [18:46]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, that's what I remember. But I also remember, like, the first time going expecting to see, like, thousands of naked people tripping on acid painted green or something. Right. It didn't quite turn out.
- [18:57]
Eugene Mirman
It's like a lot of, like, you know, like, you know, sort of pre med and history students and then people who were like, chaos, you know, I definitely remember, like, there being a group of people who tried to set the lawn free and put like, rocks on the lawn to stop fizz plant from mowing it. And then there were other people who were like, you guys, your classes for making blue collar people move. Like, it was like this chaos. But then a lot of other people were just extremely studious. So, like, I have friends who majored in all sorts of things and, you know, did amazingly well and really also pursued the things that they were interested in. You know, friends who did architecture and are builders now, people who studied writing and are writers, you know. So, like, it was both that, which is like, you expect to see a lot of green people, and you see like a green person and you're like, oh, and that'd be like at least nine. Like, one. But yeah, there were people who made, like, food art in their halls. And then it would be like, we gotta remove it. Because it's also just rotting food in a public space. And then other people who were like, I have, you know, invented something very cool in the, like, Science center here. So. So it's like, you know, it was the whole gamut, which is also like, you know why? You know, I loved it. And for me, it was personally great. Cause I got to pursue from all these different directions, comedy. You know, I took classes in rise of Mass culture and like, documentary film and writing and acting. And then it included things like doing the radio show at Amherst. Like, you could have these sort of things outside of the strict scope of classes. That would absolutely count towards education and graduation, as they should.
- [20:43]
Paul Rykoff
Was your show called the Eugene Mirman Show? What was your show called?
- [20:46]
Eugene Mirman
Probably meaning. I don't know that I gave it a name, I think outside of my name meaning, it probably was just the Eugene Mirvan show or the Eugene Show. Probably. No need for. Yeah. At the time I was like, maybe it'll work out. Like Sting. No, both names. Both names.
- [21:07]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah. I started out as a freshman intern on the Sports Express. They would have us do research. There was one football player and one basketball player who would always be on the Sports Express. And then I delved into news and politics and stuff. Like, how do we get cable on campus? Right? All these big bureaucratic fights. And then my show became Reich on the Mic, where it was. You know, I remember there was a controversy about. I had a middle finger like this up at the camera. And it was a violation of some, like, campus protocols. And I couldn't put the middle finger up in a poster.
- [21:43]
Eugene Mirman
Could you do it sideways or something? Could it be like, now it's an arrow, now it's the FedEx symbol? Could you do that?
- [21:53]
Paul Rykoff
Okay. I'm so happy you're here. This is why, for folks in. If you've never heard Eugene, you're now a fan and you understand why we love him. Let me ask you, Eugene, a question I ask of everyone that I think is especially poignant for you today. I always ask everybody, where are you and how are you? But I want to ask this of you especially because you went through an incredibly tough car accident that's been in the news. But where are you and how are you, man? How are you doing?
- [22:19]
Eugene Mirman
I mean, so I'm home, and I'm all right. I don't remember the accident. I don't know what caused it. You know, it was insane. I think I was rescued by folks, you know, before. Like, you know, probably the. I know the car burned and there was a lot of, you know, there are a lot of stories of, like, the car being on fire, then a picture of me, and then, like, I left. I think before. Certainly before it reignited later in the week or whatever happened. Like, so I'm, you know, I was hurt and I had a concussion. Like, I didn't remember anything. And again, I don't know what happened. And, like, I know that I remembered my wife's phone number. Like, whoever pulled me out. Like, I. Like, it was like, do you know anybody to call? And, you know, aside from obviously my hospital. And so I had set her phone number. And then my memories being in the ambulance and seeing, like, the car, like, part of it a little on fire. And then, you know, obviously the people at the hospital were wonderful. And ultimately, obviously, like, I'm so fortunate. Like, the amount I could have been injured to, the amount I am, like, it's, you know, I, you know, obviously, like, I broke rip. Like, it wasn't like, nothing, but it's so much better than what it could have been. And I'm ultimately okay and so thankful and sort of all the well wishes of people, you know, the. The. I think, like, there was an amount that. I know that it was in the news both before it was me because there was a car that was on fire that I think the governor's detail helped rescue me amongst the people. So there was, like, just so much stuff. And then it almost was like, after all that happened, and then, like, you know, the only call. So I, like, the first day I was in the hospital, I think I just, like, ate jello and, like, drank or whatever. And then they had, like, I had wrist surgery. And so I hadn't eaten in, like, some long period of time. And I just called to get, like, whatever, like, my. The first meal. And then my phone rang shortly after, and they were like, is this Eugene? I'm like, yes. And then it was like, tmz. So the only call I got at the hospital was tmz. And then it was like, hey, you know that fire we've been telling you about? Oh, my God, Great news. It's someone who's in the news. Like, and so it's like. And so then. And then I was already okay. And some people around me knew that, like, I was all right enough. But then the news started, like, going crazy for me, you know, I don't know how it was of the outside world. And I haven't looked at any of the videos or any of the stuff other than, like, the person next to me in the hospital did watch the news a lot, so I would hear, like, my news story with, like, new updates as, like, more information became available. So, like, that was, like, a thing that I would hear. But otherwise, like, I. So, so the answer is like, I'm home. I'm okay. I'm obviously so thankful to the people who saved me and to, you know, in a sense, the state of New Hampshire. Like, that hospital was so great and everybody there was so nice, you know, and. Yeah, so. So I'm. That's. That's, I think a lot of it.
- [25:26]
Paul Rykoff
I'm so glad you're okay. As soon as I think I saw it in the New York Times and I turned to my wife and I was like, holy. Eugene was in an accident.
- [25:33]
Eugene Mirman
And.
- [25:33]
Paul Rykoff
And then I remember saying, like, and Kelly Iott was there. Like, the governor might have been there, right?
- [25:38]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah, like, yeah, she was there personally, but, like, yeah, I think she maybe had a fire extinguisher or was asking people for one or. Yes. I don't know. I mean, I'm very thankful to her and her detail and then the other people who I believe, you know, helped pull me out, you know, but I. We never, like, we never. We haven't caught up. Like, also, I think whoever her detail is probably secret. I think it might be weird to call, like, a governor to just go, like, thank you. But if she sees this, thank you. And if anyone who helped me sees this, thank you. Thank you so much.
- [26:13]
Paul Rykoff
She's, you know, I worked with her when she was in the Senate quite a bit, and I think she's a military spouse and she's always been very nice and she's. I think she was always very effective. And, like, if I think of all the governors I know, if I had to be in a car crash and have one show up, she's probably at the top of the list because she's not going. I mean, some of them. Some of them would just leave you there to burn.
- [26:34]
Eugene Mirman
But I think, yeah, like, let's. Let's help. Like, it's. Yes, it's amazing. Yeah.
- [26:40]
Paul Rykoff
And so, and so just. It was just total coincidence that the governor's detail and this.
- [26:45]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah, we didn't have a. Yeah, we didn't have a meeting. Like, it wasn't, like, I was like, I'd love to meet her. That's what I hope I find out later that it was like, this was. Like. I was like, oh, I'd love to meet her. And then I'm like, I never even got to meet her. Like, the whole thing. No, everything was a coincidence, including, like, I have no idea what caused it or how. Like, I don't know if it's something with me or something else or, you know, Anyway, we'll. I'll sort of try to figure it out, but I don't know. My guess is I'll sort of never really know. I'm just very thankful to be basically a version of okay.
- [27:20]
Paul Rykoff
Or TMZ will call you to tell you what they found out. Yes.
- [27:24]
Eugene Mirman
I mean, I've spoken to, like, the police. Like, I. I have, like, vague ideas, but not. But it's, like, nothing will be. Like, it's not, like, clear that I, like, whether, like, I lost conscious or whether I was distracted or whether, like, there was something with the car or the. You know, I know people crash into that toll booth, but, like, not more than drive past it. You know what I mean? So it's like. Like. Like, I get it. Like, it's maybe an imperfect toll booth, but, like, I think. What. You know, I basically had this, like, there was, like, a claim thing that was like, are you 50.1% responsible? And I'm like, there's no other driver. I probably have to be, you know, And I'm not, like, interested in being like, no, I'm 49.9%. The Tobos lunged at me. Like, I. I'm just, like, I just want to move on, you know, so. But yeah, it's. That's how I am. Yeah. Largely. Okay. And, like, that's that. Yeah. You know.
- [28:21]
Paul Rykoff
Well, we will. We will. We will. We will move on. But we will move on. Go ahead.
- [28:26]
Eugene Mirman
Oh, yeah, No, I meant, like, meeting, like, in.
- [28:28]
Paul Rykoff
No, no, we can definitely. I want to move, but also. I want to also just. I think you are. You know, I pulled the Hodgman quote. Like, you. You are one of the kindest and warmest people that I've met, especially now. Like, you haven't changed as you've gotten more and more popular and respected. And that's got to kind of be, like, the closest thing to dying without dying, where you find out from everybody how they feel about you. Right.
- [28:53]
Eugene Mirman
Yes, it's true. It's like I staged a funeral to be like, oh, that was very sweet. Ooh, another very sweet statement. Yes. I hope to never repeat it until many years from now. And then. Yeah. Yes. A lot of, like, Everyone I met reached out, like, to be like, I hope you're okay. So it's. And then many strangers, obviously. And again, it was an outpouring of extraordinary kindness and sweetness.
- [29:20]
Paul Rykoff
So did anybody reach out to you? That was a real surprise.
- [29:24]
Eugene Mirman
No, like, no, it's all people I know. So it's not like, no, I didn't, like, get a strange, like, you know, stamp letter from Sean Hannity being like, surprise. I know. I don't meaning, like, it's all people I know who, who are who, who. But no, there was no, I didn't like, it wasn't like, strangers who are like absolute strangers where I'm like, yeah, no, it was. Not yet.
- [29:52]
Paul Rykoff
Not yet.
- [29:53]
Eugene Mirman
Not yet. But, yeah, I look forward. I mean, there were strangers who I don't know, but not like someone. It wasn't like, oh, the heads of, you know, Italy and Spain were like, we watch it. It's dubbed. We watch Bob's. It's dubbed, but we still love you. No, nothing unusual.
- [30:10]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, we don't know if, we don't know if J.D. vance is a fan of Bob's Burgers, right?
- [30:15]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah, we don't know. He, he, he, he, he. You know what? I bet. I bet he is, but I bet he doesn't bring it up. I bet he doesn't want to. I bet he has to keep it a secret.
- [30:25]
Paul Rykoff
I, I bet you Hegseth is not. We, we will talk. We'll let. But let's. We'll get into that, right?
- [30:30]
Eugene Mirman
Sure, sure. Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't know. Yeah.
- [30:33]
Paul Rykoff
So here I want to, I want to, I want to ask you about what I think is the. I can't have you here and not ask you about this right, right now. I mean, first of all, everybody should check out, Here comes the whimsy. It's so funny. It's so thoughtful. It's so insightful. I was laughing out loud listening to it, waking up my kids. But you talk about a lot of stuff. You talk about culture, you talk about parenting, you talk about Trump and you talk about America. And I was also reminded that you appeared on the Colbert Report at one point as a fertility clown, right?
- [31:15]
Eugene Mirman
Yes, I believe so. Yeah.
- [31:17]
Paul Rykoff
Trump is coming after free speech, and he's coming after comedians. He's come after Colbert. I was on Colbert show last month. He's now coming after Jimmy Kimmel. There was no comedian at the White House Correspondents Dinner. Can I just ask you, what's your reaction to him coming after people like Kimmel and Colbert? And maybe he'll hear your new special and come after you.
- [31:39]
Eugene Mirman
I mean, yeah, I mean, I'd rather stay out of the news, but whatever. I mean, it's. Maybe you never know. Yeah. I mean, I find it all, like, disappointing and heartbreaking. I think he is, you know, I think he is like an entity, is sort of, to me, a slap in the face of what the ideals of America are. You know, as someone who came here, you know, from an authoritarian country, you know, I'm a refugee. Like, I adore the American dream. I, you know, believe in it. I get that things have changed and that it is much harder now. And, you know, but I do always think that, you know, America provides the opportunity to imagine and possibly become the thing you like to be in a way that authoritarian countries genuinely don't allow it. I get that it is hard. I get that, like, there's, you know, insane influence from companies that have, you know, you know, crazy amounts of money and people, you know, but, but, but, but on the other hand, like, you can make a podcast. You can, you know, when I was, you know, in the, say, 70s and 80s, you know, if to be a standup, you largely had to be on one of three or four TV shows, you know, that was not easy to accomplish. And then eventually, through things like YouTube and social media, it did, you know, give a lot of people a chance to be in the world of entertainment that may not have as easily found a place. And with all that said, I think that sort of everything that Trump is, is a slap into in the face of the sort of ideals because, like, people in America, you know, break laws and they're, you know, do things that are obviously, like, immoral or criminal, but the idea is that they would be held accountable, and they often were. And if you could prove that a person committed a crime and they were, say, a felon, that would be taken seriously. And I think that the erasure of some of those norms, and also, of course, all the free speech, like, going after free speech, the like, bullshit, like, 86, 47, stuff, like, from all the people who had, who knows what about Joe Biden, like, it's. It's a level of hypocrisy that is, you know, I find in a sense, heartbreaking because I think it actually betrays what could be and is best about America. And at the same time, just like, in a sense, like, insincere, you know what I mean? People who have definitely said or thought worse things about their rivals are utterly, hypocritically now, like, you know, coming up with these tedious conspiracy theories and also wasting time and money. You know, when I think about, like, like, many people agree that we should have a secure border, but if what you're doing is sending, you know, thugs breaking the law into parking lots of Home Depot, into schools, into hospitals, like, nobody, Nobody. That isn't. That's not the thing. And then also, that is money you could be using to actually provide the sort of security you claim to want. You know, so, like, I think, like, it's. A lot of it is both so absurdly wasteful and so insanely cruel and betrays the ideals, I think, that I. That I genuinely do love and admire about America. Because I think also what people don't really necessarily think about or grasp is that there really is a lot of freedom. Like, you and I can have this conversation. We absolutely could not have this conversation in a genuinely authoritarian country. That doesn't mean that, like, Trump isn't an obvious, like, person with obvious factious tendencies. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't betray that. He just, you know, I think that America is a little too big and a little too used to freedom to be truly, wholly silenced. But that isn't to say that, like, Colbert isn't being fired, you know, so. So, like, you know, anyway, yeah, no,
- [36:26]
Paul Rykoff
I think it's some of that your timing is perfect because, I mean, comedians have never been more important in America than they are right now, because they've never been more under attack, at least in my lifetime. Right.
- [36:38]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah.
- [36:39]
Paul Rykoff
I mean, he's. He's specifically targeting Colbert and, And Kimmel. And then you've got this contrast, too, of Zelensky, right, who did comedy, who's now an internationally respected statesman. He's so heroic. And I had this conversation that got cut from my interview with Colbert when I said to him, look, man, your show is out. You've got some extra time. How about running for Senate against Lindsey Graham in your home state of South Carolina? And the crowd went nuts. He kind of blushed. They cut that part of the interview because they had to save four minutes because John Lithgow read this amazing poem. But I really was serious about it because he's so powerful, he's so important, you know, and Zelensky is a model for what is possible. You know, people can't just dismiss comedians. And I think right now what you're doing is so important because it. It is almost unstoppable. And, and the virality of it, especially in this kind of a new media market where people can find your Words and go to your shows and they can't stop you from doing your thing. Is. Is really, really important. And you also, you do a bit. You do. You do the three wishes bit, right in the new special. Can you share that one? Because I don't know if they're gonna. They might put you in an investigation with Comey and, you know, because they could misconstrue.
- [37:51]
Eugene Mirman
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I feel like people could watch it. But yeah, it's me just basically being, like, making the wish that Trump's children eat him. You know, that's like. And we can all have wishes. Like, you can't threaten someone. You can make a wish. And so I talk about that for a little bit. And. Yeah, and like, this is the thing that's also horrifying about Trump.
- [38:10]
Paul Rykoff
I'll say the second whip.
- [38:12]
Eugene Mirman
I don't want to second wish is, of course, that he comes back to life and they eat him again. Yes. This is like if I found a genie lamp. And then, and then it's, like, hard, because if I had a third wish, do I just wish, like, I could fly or am I, like, do I wish, like, he tastes great? Because there is something funny about, like, you know, people are like, oh, you taste terrible. But it's like, now imagine they're like, ah, now we're torn. Look, he tastes so good.
- [38:35]
Paul Rykoff
But in this environment, he's gonna say he's threatening cannibalism. It's like threatening the 86 mob thing. Here he comes, right?
- [38:46]
Eugene Mirman
And he also, unlike past presidents, I would say he actively uses the power of the state to try to silence people. He does not always win, and he, in fact, often loses, but he sometimes succeeds. And certainly if you, you know, it's the thuggishness of other authoritarian regimes. Like, you know, if they were like, hey, we're gonna, you know, come after your parents and we're gonna say that they committed tax fraud and we're gonna take their houses, we're gonna put them in prison. Or maybe you say you're sorry, like, and, and, and, and, and, you know, they're often going after people directly. They're not. But like, that's authoritarian shit. That's like what people do. They use the power of the state to threaten, threaten, threaten. And ultimately, if what you're doing is you're threatening a multi billion dollar business and you're saying to them, like, hey, why don't you, like, not make 20 million this year and you cut this one program, but you get to make all this other money. And for them, maybe it's worth it. You know, for individual people it's a little different. And you know, obviously people like Comey and other people standing up to it and like, also they haven't done anything wrong. Like, you know, so, so, so a lot of it is such is just, you know, I mean, it's cruelty and horseshit. I don't know.
- [40:18]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah. And again, everybody needs to check out Eugene's new special because I think it's so funny, but it's also insightful and it's important. You've always had a very brilliant way
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- [42:28]
Paul Rykoff
Fun of and making light of and just pulling apart and analyzing these times. And I really think that again, more than any time in my lifetime, this is a moment for comedians and any creative to kind of answer the call. Let me ask you if I can, Eugene. We call it below the radar. Let's go below the radar. I've had a debate with some folks about whether or not Trump is funny, right? And yesterday I was on Ms. Now when he was doing a press conference from the White House, which is just fucking absurd. And they have our mics off and I'm there with Katie Tur and some other folks, right? And I say, like, I wish we could just turn the mics on and do Mystery Science Theater, right? Because it's just fucking insane. He's talking about so much insane stuff. But some people say, you know what, he's funny. And I, and for me, like, nothing about it is funny, right? It's so authoritarian, it's so menacing, it's so violent. It's so hypocritical that I don't want to give him that, you know, it's not funny because of who it comes from and the way it comes. And it's almost like a weapon for him and to be construed as funny. But when you think about it, I mean, how do you look at it? Do you think Trump is funny?
- [43:40]
Eugene Mirman
I mean, I don't, but like, for me, you know, what's hard is, look, I don't know if it'll be a surprise. I find him very unlikable. I know that that is probably one of the nicer things anyone has ever said about him. But in that context, I don't, you know, I never see him make a quip that I'm like, oh, that was clever. Like, I, you know, he, he is rambly, in a unfollowable way. You know, I think I, like, I don't know now, like several months ago, saw like a very short clip and I was like, almost like, oh my God, this like one minute clip made sense. Like, it, like, it like kept on top. Like, but it's like, I wonder what happened before and after. So it's like, yeah, if you ask someone like to list like five groceries, maybe he'd nail it in a row without like being like, but yeah, so I, So to me, no, but like, you know, a lot of things aren't funny necessarily. But no, I think that he is too cruel, unlikable and, and also Just like the chaos. Like, I do think that he is. Yeah, he wields his power to me in the worst ways you can, you know? And I don't know, like, I. Like, I don't know if there are policies that someone could be like, well, what about this thing? And you're like, I guess, like, maybe, like, I'm not. You know, I think that he's such a betrayal of the ideals of America that whether there is anything that's good that comes out of something, which I find unlikely. Like, meaning, like, he's, you know, like our whole, like. Like, you know, the CDC and like, all our healthcare stuff. And, like, you know, you read about these things, and luckily states are coming together and, you know, all this, you know, to combat it. But it's like, it's insane to have such unqualified people, you know, that's the other thing. It's like, you know, whether you agreed with someone politically or not, for most of my life, you'd be like, all right, they're probably like, their, like, recommendation for the flu vaccine is probably reasonable. And now it's like, it's almost definitely unreasonable. Or they have to be pushed to be like, hey, there was no epidemic, and yet deaths are way up. Do you think it's because you're not good at this? Like, and the answer is, yeah, that's why. So, like, the level of incompetent people, the level of money being diverted to these, like, fake or, like, yeah, like, I don't know, causes. I don't know the right way to put it. Like, the amount that hegseth is, like, utterly unqualified. Uses, like, idiotic language. And then when you're like, hey, when you said it's okay to murder surrendered people, that's. That's not how you phrased it, but that's the meaning of the language you used. Do you regret that? And he's just like, wait, follow the law. Like, just fucking answer the question. And you can't, because you are actively not. You are encouraging people to break the law. You are setting an awful example from the top. And I don't know that he's like, if someone told me I needed knee surgery and people were like, hey, you should wait five years. You could wait five years. Or Pete Henseth could do it now and be like, maybe we give it some time. Like, you know, he's. It's. It's just heartbreaking to have incompetent people, whether you agree or disagree with them, you know, in positions of such authority,
- [47:35]
Paul Rykoff
personally I'm so glad you spanned that because I was going to ask you about Hegseth. You know, I was gonna. I get. We got into Trump, which is good. Do you have any thoughts on J.D. vance? I mean, J.D. vance just seems to be like a comedy bonanza, but I don't know if you touched on it in your new special, but he seemed uniquely ripe for comedic response.
- [47:56]
Eugene Mirman
I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, I. And in general, my special is like, not largely not political. Like, I have things and things touch upon it. Like, I mean, you know, I think, like, I don't know, J.D. vance 20 years ago, probably reasonable. I mean, it feels like, you know, I don't know that much other than it seems like he'll do whatever to sort of have a position of power. He's probably an isolationist who has to go along with a thing he doesn't like. So I don't know how likely he is to be the nominee because he's like, but. But he's, you know, I think the thing about him that it doesn't seem like to me he has any specific principle. So, like, I think I. Other than I. I don't know. Would he be better than Trump? Meaning, Like, I don't think he's like absolute chaos. He might be better or worse in whatever way, but I, I think he stands for nothing. I think he has no real, you know, spine or opinion. I guess so, like, in that sense, like, you know. No, I mean, I. I don't know that that, like, I'm sure that you could make fun of him, like, but I think he's, you know, he's a snake I probably disagree with. So I don't know what that is. Like, I don't know, you know, I don't know when he runs and says something like, what it'll mean because I won't, like, it'll be particularly unbelievable. Like, lots of people speak vaguely and broadly, but you kind of have a sense of what they would either try to do or do, you know, with Vance, I think he's probably an isolationist to a potentially dangerous degree and he can't. But. But, like, who the hell knows? And also, it's not like, you know, in Trump, who ran on no wars that started, I don't know how many, eight, nine. Like, he's, you know, unreliable.
- [49:51]
Paul Rykoff
He's.
- [49:52]
Eugene Mirman
It's also really funny now to see people be like, trump lied to me. Like, you're like, yeah, he has only lied every day, like 30, 50 times a day at some absurd. Like, he you know, absurd amount. Like, nothing he says. Like, he's like a clock that's not even right twice a day, where you're like, how does that happen? Like, how do you even do that? And then, you know, people are like, oh, my God, I can't believe he lied to me. We had agreed he would lie to everyone but me. Like, yeah, he's absolutely untrustworthy. And J.D. vance seems to do whatever, you know, I don't know. I don't know how you come out of being as spineless like. Like. Or as vocally unopinionated beyond, like, sort of this, you know, random, tedious rhetoric.
- [50:46]
Paul Rykoff
JD Vance is a guy who went to a party at Hampshire and will never admit it. Like, he went there, and, you know, he would never admit that he was there, and he would lie about it, and then you'd find him, you know, naked doing PCP at Trick or Treat. Trick or Treat or something. But. But he. I think your. Your analysis of him is. Is right on. Let me shift to something good, because I want to be mindful of your time. You got to go do other things. You know, I'm gonna go with something good, then I'm gonna come to you. I mean, first of all, your new special is something good. Good. It's something great. It's so funny. It's so brilliant. Here comes the whimsy. Everybody should check it out. And then something good that I saw this week that I think is important for this moment, since we're talking about comedy, and I don't even know if you know him, is Triumph the Insult Comic Dog. And, you know, the great legendary comedian, actor Robert Smeagol. I think we've never needed him more. And he was outside of the White House Correspondents Dinner talking to Rubio. And I don't know if Chris can play this clip or not. We'll see if we can do it afterward. But he basically, Rubio tries to play with him and says, you know, this dog's a pain in the ass. And Triumph says, just tell me what country you're attacking next. I'm trying to win some money on Polymarket, but he asks tougher questions than anybody in the press corps, especially now. He's always there. And just a sidebar. I think it was May 2008. I was. I've been at both Democratic and Republican conventions for the last 20 years, and I got locked out of one. Like, I couldn't get inside, and everybody was pissed. We couldn't get their security. I forgot what it was. And all of A sudden, I look over and I hear him, and I'm like, he's right there locked out with us. So I was like, five feet away from Triumph when he's like, let us in, let us in. You know, he just starts doing the whole shit. And we were trapped in a really shitty situation. Was like hundreds of people stuck in the security line. And he did like an hour, just an hour long, just kept everybody laughing. And I think he's important because he gets to people in such an important way. It underscores why comedy is so important. I think it's something very good, but something good, especially for now. And of course, you, my friend Eugene, you are something good. But over to you, sir. What do you got? What's something good?
- [52:56]
Eugene Mirman
I don't know. What is something good? I mean, there is a lot of comedy coming out that I am excited for. You know, I think. And maybe some of it is even out. Like, Zach Alvin actually has a new gardening show, and I'm very excited to check it out. I know that Patton and David Cross have special. David's baby is out, and Patton is about to come out. I'm very excited to see him. There's a lot of. There's a lot of good comedy, and then a lot of it's funny. Whenever I see this movie's coming out, the new Spider man still coming out, I'm like, oh, the world is moving forward. There is this sort of. And I think actually the good. Like, a lot of people now who have been now directly deceived are like, sort of like, oh, maybe this isn't so good. Like, maybe, like, everything is still more expensive. It's like, you know, so I think that there's the sort of, you know, you can feel hopeless in this, like, in just the sort of murk of it all and, like, you know, the bombardment. And so I do think that there's, like, these moments of brightness that are the kind of shine through, and there is, like, a hopefulness. And I, you know, I know I tend to have, like, an optimistic view often. And so. So I think, you know, but some of that. So I think some of the comedy that's coming out and about to be in the world and then that I see that, like, I don't know, the world is moving forward in a way that you think, like, at any point it might stop, and you're like, okay, maybe it's. It's, you know, it's not great. And like, there's also, like, you know, I think you have to control your like, media intake. You know, I think during Trump's first. First presidency, you know, my wife was like, hey, no, no Trump talk after 10pm like, like, no, we can't. Like, you know, and I have, like, figured out a way, like, I'm aware of everything terrible, but I'm not like. But I don't try to see it five times a day and be like, ah, you know, so it's like, learn about it once and then, like, try to balance it with a really fun cooking thing, you know.
- [55:10]
Paul Rykoff
That's a good rule, man. That's a good. Before we wrap, I just want to ask you one thing. For folks, especially watching on YouTube. I see comic books behind you, and I've gotten to this new spot where I'm finally able to share my comic collection with my son. And we're sharing this thing and we're going through it. And then I also saw, you know, Finding Superman, the great documentary, if you've seen it on Amazon, about, about comic books. But I feel like it's a moment where comic books, we need them. Right. And this weekend is. Is May 4th, so we're going to celebrate Star wars and May 4th. Right. But comic books behind you, man. Did you have a favorite or do you have a favorite?
- [55:47]
Eugene Mirman
And, yeah, I mean, I love, you know, I love Daredevil. I mean, X Men, Batman growing up, you know. Yeah, I adored them. And it is like, my son is now pretty into Star Wars. We've now watched two of the new Spider man movies, and he's pretty into it, you know? Yeah. I think, like, you know, Monday is, like, May 4, but then this Saturday is free comic book day. So we, you know, I plan to go with him and, like, maybe he'll get into, like, we'll get some stuff and he'll get into some things. You know, he reads a lot of Calvin and Hobbes, you know. So, yeah, like, I am a big fan. And it's true. There is. It is like, it's hopeful dystopia, you know, like, you know, it's a little. It's nice. You're like, oh, my God, the world's gonna end. And then you're like, ah, not bad.
- [56:41]
Paul Rykoff
Well, you have been a superhero of comedy, a superhero of insight and analysis. You are something good. I mean, just to go back to where we started, I'm so honored to be your friend. I'm so proud of you. It's so exciting to see what you've done. You know, I sat with my boys last night and explained to them that I was talking to you and how when you went to college, you studied comedy and I could see the light go on in my son's head to see that that's possible. But it's also really so important right now. Eugene, you are brilliant. You are fantastic. The new special is called Here Comes the Whimsy. Everyone should check it out, share it far and wide. Follow everything. Sorry, please.
- [57:19]
Eugene Mirman
I'll say that there'll be a live YouTube stream. Tuesday, May 5th at 8pm EST. That's, I think, something we didn't say, though. Yes. So come join me on YouTube. May 5, 8pm EST. I'll be live chatting.
- [57:33]
Paul Rykoff
Awesome. And I will share all of that in the show notes for this show, folks. So please share it far and wide. Eugene, you are a treasure. I thank you for so much. I hope you'll come back again. I'm glad you're here.
- [57:44]
Eugene Mirman
This was wonderful. It was so nice to see you. Like, it's so great. I similarly, literally, have been, like, so psyched every time I see you, you know, on Colbert or doing whatever, it's. It's so great. Like, so congratulations for everything you've done and also, like, for all the sort of, like, independent voices you've raised. I think it's really, really cool. So.
- [58:02]
Paul Rykoff
Well, thank you, man. Let's do. Let's do it again soon. And may the Fourth be with you.
- [58:06]
Eugene Mirman
Yes. All right. Bye. Bye.
- [58:11]
Righteous Media Performer
Tells me the left and right Our dreams for those without a clue and when you wake it's time to grow and it's not cool to believe in school but if I can say one thing I've seen the children of the revolution and the good trouble they can bring he says the red and blue I get an independent is an attitude an island in the sea of rhetoric and acquiral ago he tells me the left and right Our dreams for those without a clue and when you wait
- [58:40]
Paul Rykoff
it's time to grow Power by Righteous media.