Focus on the Insurrection Act Above All Else w/ Asha Rangappa.

Summary

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Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff | Ep. 416 (Jan. 16, 2026)

Focus on the Insurrection Act Above All Else w/ Asha Rangappa

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode zeroes in on the imminent and alarming possibility that former President Trump will invoke the Insurrection Act, a rarely used law that would enable him to deploy the U.S. military inside America’s borders against civilians. Host Paul Rieckhoff, an independent political voice and Iraq war veteran, is joined by Asha Rangappa—former FBI special agent and Yale professor—to unpack the Insurrection Act’s function, dangers, history, and very real threat to American democracy in the current political climate. The episode also touches on related topics: Trump’s unchecked power, the collapse of democratic norms, U.S. actions in Venezuela and Greenland, the state of international affairs, and ends with lighter fare via football picks and cultural recommendations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Insurrection Act: The Danger at the Center of the Storm

• Paul opens with repeated warnings about a lack of imagination among American leadership and public: “There’s a stunning and dangerous lack of imagination in America from too many in media and politics. And people keep asking me, do you think he’ll really do it?… Yes, he will do it. He’s told you he will do it, and he will do it.” (00:30–03:30)
• Trump is openly considering using the Insurrection Act as a circuit-breaker for democracy. Paul suggests that Trump could wait for Martin Luther King Jr. Day to invoke it: “He might wait until Martin Luther King Jr. Day on Monday to invoke the Insurrection Act. It would be like the ultimate trolling.” (04:04)
• The Insurrection Act is cast as “the most dangerous course of action that Trump can take,” a circuit-breaker moment that could fundamentally alter American democracy.

2. The Current Crisis & Trump’s Authoritarian Moves

• Minneapolis is highlighted as a potential flashpoint for Trump’s invocation of the Insurrection Act.
• Trump’s words are analyzed: “He even said yesterday to Reuters… ‘we shouldn’t even have elections.’ He does not want free and fair elections, an Insurrection Act, martial law, using our military, would all stop that from happening.” (04:04–05:00)
• Paul draws parallels between the NFL playoffs and current American politics, calling this the “knockout round” in both.

3. The Fourth Estate & Attacks on the Press

• The ongoing undermining of the independent military publication Stars and Stripes is described as “the latest casualty in the Fourth Estate in the fight to preserve and defend our democracy.” (06:00–07:30)

4. Global Hotspots: Venezuela, Greenland, Ukraine, Iran

• In Venezuela: Opposition leader Maria Machado controversially gifts her Nobel Prize to Trump. Rangappa describes U.S. policy in Venezuela as a “Stephen Miller Special”—a convergence of MAGA factions and personal interest politics. (17:12–19:00)
• For Greenland, Trump is using economic pressure and pursuing annexation against the overwhelming opposition of Americans and allies. (08:00–10:00)
• Ukraine continues to face devastating Russian attacks, now with France taking over much of the U.S. intelligence role; U.S. influence wanes as casualties mount. (11:30–13:00)
• Iran’s crackdown on protests sees Trump taking credit for the (unverified) halting of executions.

5. Independent Identity and Political Landscape

• Paul highlights the shift in American political identity: “A new high—45% of Americans now identify as political independents. We aren’t moving the needle, we are the needle.” (14:00)

6. Deep Dive: Explaining the Insurrection Act (w/ Asha Rangappa)

Timestamps: 23:00–34:45 (core segment)

• What is the Insurrection Act?
  • Not martial law. It’s an exception that allows the military to act in civilian law enforcement, especially over the objection of a governor—unlike its use in the 1960s to enforce civil rights, Trump’s intention is to use it to enforce immigration law.
  • Rangappa: “I do want to underscore… it does not mean martial law. Martial law is when the entire civilian government is supplanted with a military government… This is not that; it is not martial law, but it does allow the military to come in and engage in civil law enforcement.” (23:16)
• Historical Precedent
  • Last used in the 1960s for civil rights enforcement; would now be aimed at suppressing civilians and protesters.
  • “They were protecting black kids going to school… This is a very different context.” (25:32)
• Why This Time is More Dangerous
  • Trump would bypass local authority, using federal troops to back up ICE in immigration raids. “It puts the military in between ICE and protesters and that’s when bad shit’s going to happen.” (28:05–29:13)
• Likelihood and Legal Recourse
  • Both Rangappa and Rieckhoff agree Trump will likely invoke the act—potentially in Minneapolis—and challenge protestors, ICE, and state authority. Courts might intervene, but enforcement is unclear in a “do what he wants and apologize never” administration.
  • Rangappa: “The bar might be high, it is going to get litigated… but it’s not a given that he’ll get away with it legally.” (29:39)
  • Paul: “Once a court says something, that is the law. That is the law that all of these service members are sworn to uphold. Right. They are not sworn to…follow whatever Donald Trump says, no matter what.” (34:29)

7. Broader Themes of Authoritarianism & Geopolitics

• Trump’s motivation described as wanting to divide the world with Putin and Xi: “Trump wants to be one of the big three… dividing the world into three pieces.” (20:42)

8. “Below the Radar” Dangers

• Asha flags Greenland and pending Supreme Court decisions on tariffs as important but under-discussed developments. (32:22–32:47)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

On the Insurrection Act’s Meaning and Danger:

• Paul Rieckhoff (02:00): “The Insurrection Act is the most dangerous course of action that Trump can take… This is everything right now. It’s a circuit breaker for our democracy.”

• Asha Rangappa (23:16): “It does not mean martial law. Martial law is when the entire civilian government is supplanted… This is not that.”

• Asha Rangappa (25:37): “This is a very different context… They were protecting black kids going to school. Here, Trump would send in the military to enforce immigration law—ICE arresting whoever they want.”

• Paul Rieckhoff (28:05): “You send the military in to be the bodyguards for ICE, and then ICE can continue to tear up places… That’s when bad shit’s going to happen.”

• Asha Rangappa (29:39): “I do think he’s going to do it. But the Insurrection Act authorizes the military only when… [the situation] impedes the course of justice… the bar might be high; it is going to get litigated.”

On Legal Protections and Compliance

• Paul Rieckhoff (34:29): “Once a court says something, that is the law. That is the law that all of these service members are sworn to uphold.”

• Asha Rangappa (33:29): “I see a lot of people saying, you know, the law doesn’t matter anymore… but it does matter, and we’ve seen it matter. They have reluctantly complied…”

On Authoritarian Aspirations

• Paul Rieckhoff (20:42): “Trump wants to be one of the big three…He probably could envision a world where they all sit down… and divide the world into three pieces. It’s about power for him.”

Notable Off-Beat Moments

• Asha (15:09): “Am I supposed to know who Kyle Tucker is?”

  • Paul assures her it’s a compliment.

• Football speed round (35:17–37:13): Light-hearted picks for the NFL playoffs, with Asha choosing teams mostly by regional sympathy or personal connection: “That’s how I choose my wines—whichever one is prettiest!” (36:57)

“Something Good” Recommendations

• Paul: Features a new Independent Americans theme song, “Independent is an Attitude.” (37:13)
• Asha: Shouts out the local band Mates of State after seeing them live. (38:04)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Trump and the Insurrection Act Warning: 00:30–04:04
• International Affairs & Venezuela/Greenland/Iran/Ukraine: 06:00–14:00
• Rise of Political Independents: 14:00
• Asha Rangappa Joins: 15:09
• Venezuela Deep Dive, MAGA Factions, Western Hemisphere: 17:12–23:00
• Insurrection Act Explained/Threat Analysis: 23:00–34:45
• Legal, Constitutional, and Enforcement Consequences: 33:20–34:45
• Below the Radar & Court Decisions: 32:22–32:47
• Football Picks & Wine Tastes: 35:17–37:13
• “Something Good” Culture Picks: 37:08–38:26

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Overall Tone

Urgent, no-nonsense, sometimes darkly humorous, and direct. Paul Rieckhoff and Asha Rangappa combine deep expertise with a conversational, plainspoken delivery. There is a clear moral angle and a warning outright to Americans: democracy is on the line. The show is less about parsing small policy fights and more about vigilance, big-picture threats, and independent engagement.

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For Listeners New to Independent Americans

This episode serves as a crucial primer on what’s at stake with the Insurrection Act and the creeping use of military force in American civil life. It situates current headlines in the context of constitutional law, civil rights history, and realpolitik. Listeners will leave with a clear sense of the specific legal tool at play, the political maneuvering behind its likely use, and why independent voices matter most at moments of democratic peril.

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Stay vigilant.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

I've said it before, I'm going to keep saying it. There's a stunning and dangerous lack of imagination in America from too many in media and politics. And people keep asking me, do you think he'll really do it? You think he'll really do it? Yes, he will do it. He's told you he will do it and he will do it. Just like Venezuela, Greenland's the same thing. But I think he will do it and you should believe him. And I think right now he's ready to pull the trigger. Welcome to Independent Americans. Welcome to episode 416. I am your host, Paul Rykoff. It is Finally Friday, Friday, January 16th. Now, we got a lot to get into, but that means football. Friday, Friday, Friday, Friday, Football. We taking the stage. And especially after this week, we're going to need the escape of football. Especially now. We've got the playoffs this weekend, the big divisional playoffs and the playoffs for our democracy seem to be happening every day. This is the knockout round. In the NFL, every round is a knockout. And as the playoffs continue to knock out teams, Trump continues to knock out his political enemies and our civil liberties. All right, I'm coming to you from New York City, usa, where it is cold as hell. Damn, it is like Lambeau Field out here. It felt like 15 degrees this morning. And windy, but not nearly as cold and windy and hard as in Ukraine where we will continue to keep a focus. Coming up, I'm over the flu. I think I am out of it. I just hope it's not like Covid and Trump and doesn't come back meaner and more damaging later. But I am feeling better. Unfortunately, our democracy is getting sicker and sicker by the minute. But we're all over it and we're going to try to bring you some Mucinex, Dayquil, vitamin C, Chicken soup of content and the five eyes to make our democracy and you feel a little better on this Friday. You know the five eyes. Independence, integrity, information, inspiration and impact. And Our guest today is bringing some medicine that we all need to take. It might not taste good, but. But we need it. The great Asha Rangapa is back, one of our favorite returning champions coming up in just a minute. She is a former FBI special agent, a professor, professor of national Security Law at Yale, and she's kind of like a Tony Romo of national security and legal politics, meaning she can tell you what's going to happen before it happens, and she's going to do that again. Today. We're going to dig in to the Insurrection act in particular and much more. But first, there is a ton happening on this Friday. America is having its coldest political winter ever, and it keeps getting darker and colder by the day. Minneapolis remains the focus here stateside as Trump continues to increase the threats of using the Insurrection Act. We're going to get into that deep with Asha coming up, but I want to underscore how important I think this is. This is a circuit breaker moment. This is everything right now. It's a circuit breaker for our democracy. We always have to plan for the most dangerous course of action. That's what good leaders do. That's what I learned in the military. And the Insurrection act is the most dangerous course of action that Trump can take. I've said it before. I'm going to keep saying it. There's a stunning and dangerous lack of imagination in America from too many in media and politics. And people keep asking me, do you think he'll really do it? Do you think he'll really do it? Yes, he will do it. He's told you he will do it, and he will do it, just like Venezuela. Greenland's the same thing. But I think he will do it, and you should believe him.

[C]

And.

[B]

And I think right now he's ready to pull the trigger. He's using it the way he says he would and I think would be the most egregious attack on our democracy we've seen in modern times. This is a big line that cannot be crossed. And right now, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Dan Kane, might be the only thing stopping him. I'm gonna throw something else out there. He might wait until Martin Luther King Jr. Day on Monday to invoke the Insurrection Act. It would be like the ultimate trolling. It would be the perfectly dastardly opportunity for him to animate his base, the far right, the white nationalists, especially against the woke, the left, the foreigners, the illegals, anyone who's not white, anyone who's not them either. You're with them or you're labeled a domestic terrorist just like Renee Goode. So wake up, America. He's going for it all. Gas, no brakes, right through our liberty, our democracy, our national security and the soul of our nation. He's like a virus that won't stop. And this is the point of no return. And he wants to go for it. So be ready for it. He even said yesterday to Reuters about the midterm elections, when you think about it, we shouldn't even have elections. Again. He is telegraphing his punches. He does not want free and fair elections, an insurrection act, martial law, using our military, what all stop that from happening. Because he knows if there's a midterm election, he might lose. And if he loses, he could get impeached and he could get sent to jail. So there it is. He's telegraphing his punches again. He's saying out loud, I've been warning it on this show for years. And here it is. More with Asha coming up in just a second. ICE continues to run rampant across America. More disturbing videos, More news. The culture of ICE is rotten to the core. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention more. Yesterday, you in my episode with Sheriff Chris Swanson getting a lot of feedback on that one. He is a fighter and he's a person who's been there, who can underscore the difficulty of what happens when ICE comes into a community and the danger for our law enforcement, something that's not getting enough attention also. So we talk about that. Trump's all gas and no breaks. And he continues his attack, his war on the free press. And he continues to dismantle the free press. He's got another head to put on a spike, and it's an easy one. Stars and stripes yesterday, Sean Parnell, who's a spokesperson for the Department of Defense, Department of War, whatever they want to call it, says they're bringing stars and stripes into the 21st century. They're going to modernize its operation, refocus its content away from woke distractions that siphon morale and adapt it to serve a new generation of service members. It's all the same. I'm not going to go much more deeply into it, but they said that they are returning to their original mission, reporting for our warfighters. Stars and Stripes by Congress's mandate, is editorially independent from the government. Here's a quote that our friend Kevin Barron posted. It says there shall be a free flow of news and information to its readership without news management or censorship. The calculated withholding of unfavorable news is prohibited. Stars and Stripes is there for our democracy, not for any political party. And Trump and Hegseth and Parnell are, of course, coming for it. It's the latest casualty in the Fourth Estate in the fight to preserve and defend our democracy. I don't know if I can do this, but we might have to start playing that Hunger Games music every time a media platform goes down. Because he's coming for them, all right? He's still coming from all. For all of the Western hemisphere. Of course, Greenland remains in the crosshairs, ridiculously, today, Senator Chris Coons, Democrat of Delaware and an Amherst graduate, I might add, led a bipartisan delegation of American lawmakers to Copenhagen to try to assure Denmark that they support its control of Greenland. So among the delegations, Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Thom Tillis of North Carolina, both Republicans. Representative Steady Hoyer, Democrat of Maryland. Here's the problem. They can't stop Trump. All they can do is just talk. Because the most important story in the world is still that Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen, and nothing is stopping him. So while they were there trying to tell Greenland that they support them, Trump says he's considering using tariffs to apply pressure to other countries that don't accept the annexation of Greenland. So he is still pushing for Greenland. All gas, no brakes. And I don't care how many senators go to Greenland. Doesn't look like they can stop him. And reminder, 75% of Americans oppose us trying to take control of Greenland. Our closest allies fear America now. Putin loves it. Our enemies are celebrating. Trump doesn't care. On Venezuela, no new strikes so far. No new seizures of oil tankers so far. CIA Director Ratliff met with met with Delsey Rodriguez, the interim president of Venezuela, reinforcing Trump's message that it sees the interim government as the best path in the country in the short term. But here's the big news and some, I think, despicable news. Venezuela opposition leader Maria Machado yesterday went to the White House and gave her Nobel Prize to Trump. Machado's been a voice of opposition. She bravely got out of Venezuela before the attacks. She was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, but now she's giving it to Trump, which maybe is a small price to pay to a fascist egomaniac in exchange for the leadership of an entire country. But nevertheless, I think it's shameful and pathetic and a low point. And of course, it's needless to say it's Shameful of Trump to ask for it and take it, but that's to be expected. What a twisted time we're living in, folks. It is dark and sad and dangerous time for it is a dark and sad and dangerous time for American leadership. All right, let's continue on to Iran where protests we think continue, but it looks like after the brutal crackdown that the protests are diminishing. The Institute for the Study of War is a must follow and they recorded zero protests on January 15, which might be the second day that they have recorded no to protest activity in Iran. The regime has come down hard. They killed people brutally responding and it looks like at least some of the protests have been pushed down. And in response, Trump continues to do Trump things like take credit. There were no public executions that we know of. And Trump is taking the credit. He thanked the Iranian government for not following through on executions of what was sent to mean hundreds of political prisoners. Trump said they were going to hang 800 people. And he said he greatly appreciate, greatly respects the fact that they cancel. He said that they were set to be executed, but now they won't be. He says thank you. He's taking credit as he always does. We will find out the truth of what's happening on the ground. Big support out to all the brave Ukrainian protesters who bring us of course forward to Ukraine where there is more bravery. Day 1423 of Russia's full scale invasion overnight at least 3 dead, 22 injured in more overnight attacks. Russia continues to brutally attack infrastructure. It is cold, we water is down. Infrastructure has been hard hit and the Ukrainians are continuing to make do. Good news. Finland is sending Ukraine another 98 million euros worth of weaponry. Finland continues to be among the most generous in the world and we should follow Finland's lead. And here's an important point that came from the Russia, the Ukrainian General Staff. Russia has lost 1,224,000 troops in Ukraine since February 24, 2022. That means from the since the full scale invasion started, over a million troops have been lost. That's according to the General Staff of Ukraine. That includes 1300 casualties just in the past day. Casualties of course has not just killed people, but wounded taken off the battlefield. Huge numbers of Russian casualties continue to mount. And also in Ukraine news Macron in France says that now France is providing 2/3 of Ukraine's intelligence, replacing the U.S. so when the U.S. steps back, France is stepping in, which is bad for us, bad for our national security and bad for our overall safety. But other folks are going to step up if we don't much deeper. In a recent episode with Tim Mack that you have to check out, he reported live from inside of Kyiv. All right. In politics here at home, one that I want to shout out. Former Senator Kyrsten Sinema has been accused of having an affair with a member of her security team. The ex wife of miss Cinema's longtime staff member accused her of showering him with gifts and breaking up their marriage. Turns out that this staffer is a war veteran and allegedly Ms. Sinema offered to send him to post traumatic stress disorder therapy, helped him with his substance abuse, but allegedly broke up their marriage. She also offered to take him to napa and to U2 at the sphere and to a Taylor Swift contest concert. Here's what I'll tell you. Kirstus Enima is not a real independent. She's been a political opportunist from the moment she started out. And I think she's been giving independence a bad name. And here is just the latest example. Because we are real independents, I want to say that we are the people's champions. That's what we want to be, especially the voices who are stepping up to run for office. You heard earlier this week, I want to reemphasize a new high. 45% of Americans now identify as political independence. We aren't moving the needle, we are the needle. You heard that from Lindsey Church earlier this week. You hear it from Todd Achilles, Brian Bangs, and more to come in the weeks ahead. In culture, here's some good news. I think there's another Yellowstone show coming. I love Yellowstone. I'm a fan of all things Taylor Sheraton and he's got a new show called the Madison that has an official premiere date now set for March 14. If our democracy is still standing, we will get to see this neo Western drama series will debut on Paramount. This is interesting. It's going to take place in Montana and Manhattan. So I'm going to have to have John Tester back on the show to talk about this. And it's going to be, quote, a heartfelt study of grief and human connection following a New York City family in the Madison River Valley of central Montana. So sounds like it's a family that moves from New York to Montana. And the cast is going to include some great folks, Michelle Pfeiffer, Kurt Russell, Matthew Fox and others. We will continue to focus on that and I want to give you something to look forward to. All right. In sports, the NFL playoffs are coming up. More on that in Friday football. Last week I went six for six. And some big baseball news. The Dodgers are said to be signing Tyle Cucker, the big hitter from the Cubs. I played for the Astros. A four year, $250 million contract. Look, the Dodgers are getting everybody. The Dodgers are like Trump. They're not playing by the rules and they're rolling and nobody can stop them. But we can try. We're going to continue to try. Whether you're a Mets fan, a Yankees fan, a Cubs fan, we're all going to try to take out the Dodgers. And we're all going to keep up the fight even if they bend the rules. And our guest is someone who does the same. Someone who will help us stay vigilant on this Friday. Because on this Friday, boy, do we need to stay vigilant. All right, folks, rounding out a really important and busy week, someone who is like a Kyle Tucker of legal and political analysis, one of our favorite returning champions, former FBI agent, professor of national security at Yale and prognosticator, a Nostradamus of what is to come in America and in our politics and legal world. The great and powerful Asher Rangappa is back on Independent Americans. Welcome back, my friend.

[C]

Thank you. Am I supposed to know who Kyle Tucker is?

[B]

Well, you do now, right? I mean, it's a compliment. It's a compliment.

[C]

Okay, okay.

[B]

You know, if you don't understand who. No. Tyler Tucker, it's okay. Because you've been pretty busy this week.

[C]

Yeah, right. Yeah, a lot going on.

[B]

This is like Max Asha Rangapo when stuff like this is going on. I mean, I know you're going from interview to interview, but despite the madness. Happy Friday.

[C]

Yeah, Happy Friday to you.

[B]

Where are you and how are you, my friend?

[C]

I am in Connecticut and it is butt ass cold here.

[B]

Butt ass cold? Is that a technical term? Butt ass cold. And how you doing? I mean, you know, what's it like to have a crystal ball in your basement and know like so much of this shit that's coming?

[C]

You know, I feel like I was thinking today that my, you know, there's so many amazing legal analysts that I rely on, you know, to get a lot of, you know, just keep up to speed on stuff. But I do feel like there, I have a certain superpower of being able to connect dots, which is why I do my graphs and my charts and I'm going to send you the one that I've done on the Insurrection act specifically to. So you can, if you want to share with your, your listeners and viewers. Yeah, so I. And I Think being able to connect the dots helps you kind of see where things are going.

[B]

You're. You're doing that. You're connecting dots. We'll link to it in our show notes. We'll also link to Ash's substack, which you should definitely subscribe to and support. I want to get to the Insurrection act most of all in a second, but can we talk about Venezuela? I mean, you called it a Stephen Miller Special. You really predicted a lot of this. You came on this show especially, and I encourage folks, if you didn't hear it, to go back. We were predicting Venezuela. I said he would go over the Christmas break, and he did, right. The table was set. We covered it with so many people. The table was set. I said, he's going to go between, you know, probably Christmas and New Year's when Congress is out of session. Nobody's paying attention. Everyone's looking at other things. He has nothing to slow him down. I think he was initially going to go on Christmas, but they waited for the weather and went a couple days later. But you also predicted that this would happen. Just your reaction to how that has unfolded in what you call the Stephen Miller Special.

[C]

I mean, I don't even know what to say. I actually, this weekend I'm going to be parsing the OLC memo, which gives the legal. The legal justification. And I will be very curious to see what they lay out. But, yeah, you know, one of the things that I think this is kind of gets to the dot connecting. It's really important to understand that MAGA has a lot of different factions that have a lot of different agendas. Right. And so when you see something like Venezuela, which, like, kind of doesn't make sense, you know, I think we could probably do this with Greenland. It's like, what does each of these factions get out of this and how are they aligning? You know, so we had talked about for Stephen Miller, he needs some kind of wartime authorities to do his domestic deportations that will make it easier for him. The way they get, you know, as I said, grandpa on board is to promise him all the oil and all the money. And he's now creating, like, some offshore accounts for the oil money, which is also bonkers. But, you know, so they all have different agendas. Marco Rubio's got his whole, you know, beef with Venezuela, so they're all kind of working in concert for different reasons, which is why on the outside it doesn't often make sense. Because it doesn't. It just meets a lot of different goals. For these different groups.

[B]

And it all, in my view, feeds into his ultimate goal, which is power, conquest, expanding his reach, money taking over. Money taking over the Western hemisphere. Right. And if you look at that, if his goal is to take over the Western hemisphere, then you build the, the rationale in support of that objective, which it seemed like ranged from drug boats to weapons of mass destruction to Maduro's a bad guy, to any other number of things. But in the end, they did it. And let me, let me ask you on that one particular. I'm going to ask you this across the board. We're in a world, Asha, where he asks for, he doesn't even ask for forgiveness, and he definitely doesn't ask for permission. He just does shit. And then afterward, if courts rule or if folks have objections or their War Powers Votes act, it's, it's. The round is already out of the chamber. So let me ask you to walk back to, you know, the. We were having a discussion about war crimes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that just gone now? Has the Senate just stopped asking if bombing that boat on September 2nd is a war crime? Because now they can't keep up with the next crazy thing he's doing.

[C]

I don't know what they're doing. I mean, you saw that they didn't even get the votes on Venezuela to stop whatever to get out of Venezuela. I guess I don't know what Congress is doing right now. They could very. Even if it's symbolic. I agree with you, the round is out of the chamber. But there is a lot that they can do just institutionally to create, create at least a record that they object that Trump is not, you know, operating with, with their approval. And I wanted just on that Western hemisphere point. You know, it's really interesting to me the sudden all of these talking points about, you know, we're going to take over the Western Hemisphere because that is a Putin and XI strategy. Right. And it's really like they Jedi mind trick Trump somehow because we've gone from being the leader of the free world to I guess we're now going to be the leader of the Western hemisphere. Like, it's sort of dumb when you think about it. Like even just from a geopolitical perspective, like who convinced him that this is a good trade. Right. It doesn't make any sense. It only makes sense if you are sitting in Putin's shoes or xi's shoes and you want to not have a unipolar world and you want a multipolar world where each of them have their own sphere. Of influence. Am I missing something?

[B]

I think, I think it's. I think it's even. Yes. No, I don't think you're missing anything, but I think it's pretty simple. Trump wants to be one of the big three. Trump wants to view himself as Putin, Xi, Trump. And we're gonna. He probably could envision a world where they all sit down a table and divide the world into three pieces. I mean, it's about power for him. He considers them equals. He considers them people have more power than them.

[C]

If he were to align with.

[B]

Not personally. He wants personal power, Right? In order to have more power, he would have to be selfless, he would have to be diplomatic, he would have to be noble. Right Honorable, Peacemaker. Right? But he's gonna take it all by force. He's grew. He's gonna get the moon. He wants to grab the moon and get as much as he can before he dies. And I think, really, that's what it's all about. And I think the Insurrection act is the latest step toward that. So let's, if we can, going to what must be the top topic. I need bells, I need whistles. Top topic, Top topic right here. All right. Insurrection Act. You and I have been talking about this for, I don't know, since the first term, because we understand what it means, right? It means sending federal troops, American troops in, to crush American civilians. Right? It would be Minneapolis on steroids and scaled across the country. And interestingly, I think he's picking a time where ISIS popularity is dropping. So he could toggle it. He could pull ICE back, put the troops in, because people are more in favor of the National Guard and the 82nd Airborne. There's still respect for the military. It's dropping, but he can toggle back and forth. But the fact that he's even threatening this in the way that he is, most importantly, I think against the objection of a governor, right? This isn't 92 in LA where the governor says, please send me resources to deal with the Rodney King's riot. This is the Balkanization of our nation in a way that is so dangerous. But let me throw it over to you and ask you most of all how. Like, let's start with how likely you think it is or that it's possible, right? It's. It is possible. It's now maybe even probable. But talk about the Insurrection act, as Trump wants to use it, why it's so bad and what it means.

[C]

Okay, so let's talk about what the Insurrection act is and what it isn't. Okay. So, Paul, you were in the military. I'm sure you're familiar with the Posse Comitatus Act. Do you want to explain to.

[B]

Please, go ahead. You run with the ball. You run with the ball.

[C]

Comitata's act prohibits the military from engaging in any civilian law enforcement in the United States. This was a statute that was passed after Reconstruction, actually. They. It was an attempt to get the military out of the south, basically because, you know, they were enforcing the civil rights laws. But it also reflects a longer standing disdain, let's say, for military being among us, you know, kind of enforcing law. Laws against us. And, you know, the. The founders were not particularly fond of that after the revolution. There is an exception to the Posse Comitatus act, and it is called the Insurrection Act. The Insurrection act basically allows. Is an exception and allows for the military to engage in civilian law enforcement. All right, and we'll get back to that and what that means in this context. But I do want to underscore just because I think people get confused a lot. It does not mean martial law. Okay? Martial law is when the entire civilian government is supplanted with a military government. Okay? So you don't have civilian courts anymore. You have military courts. You don't have, you know, a legislature. You have whatever generals, I guess, walking around making the law. You know, you have military police. That's. That's not what's happening here. That's something that, for example, President Roosevelt did in Hawaii after we were bombed, you know, after Pearl harbor was bombed. So this is not. That it is not martial law, but it does allow the military to come in and engage in civil law enforcement. Now, to your point about it being over the objection of a governor, the last time it was used, I believe in that context, was in Alabama when Governor George Wallace did not want to enforce desegregation. You know, he was not going to use the state and local law enforcement to. To assist in that. So, you know, the National Guard was federalized and they went in and they were enforcing federal law, but they were enforcing federal civil rights laws. They were enforcing constitutional rights. Okay. They weren't like enforcing criminal laws, you know, or immigration laws or whatever. And so I think they were.

[B]

They were protecting black kids going to school, correct? Right. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

To put a fine, finer point on it, 100%, this is the pictures that we've seen, right, of people, you know, basically military soldiers walking children into school. So this is a very different context, right. And I think, you know, your background and expertise comes in to kind of, I think, illuminate how bad it could potentially get. Because, you know, what Trump would be wanting is for the military to come in to enforce immigration law. That would be the idea. Right. So they would be there to help ice, I guess, you know, arrest people. And at this point, it just seemed. I don't even know that ICE has specific targets. They're just kind of going around arresting whoever they want. This is very different than. Not very different, but this is different than what Trump was doing in California, Oregon, and Illinois before the courts kicked him out, where he federalized the National Guard. Because even when the National Guard is federalized, unless he invokes the Insurrection act, all that means is the National Guard becomes. They are basically in the same boots as the military. In other words, they have all the things that the military can do, but they also have all the restrictions. So, if you remember in California, for example, the military was just kind of wandering around, like, they weren't actually enforcing laws. They were ostensibly there just to protect federal property and federal officials, but they weren't kind of affirmatively engaging in any civilian law enforcement. So if he invokes the Insurrection act, he would send. He'd send in military. And then, you know, I mean, my understanding is that the military really isn't trained to do arrests and immigration enforcement, and, you know, basically law enforcement. I mean, it's a very different thing. Right. I think people see, like, people with guns. They all do the same thing. No, they don't. They're actually different jobs. And. And I think one problem is that it doesn't seem like, you know, soldiers would be necessarily trained to do this. Maybe they could make it safer, I don't know, because I think they would be more inclined to follow the law. You know, on the other hand, I think it adds to the chaos. It certainly creates a sense that a city is occupied. You know, it might increase protests. I don't know. And I think you're asking for at least something unintentionally bad to happen as you escalate a situation like that.

[B]

Yeah, I think they're telegraphing their punches. They said yesterday, if you attack an ICE agent, you will be tried to the full extent of the law. So this is Rachel. This is Renee Goode on steroids. Right. This is. If you do anything that we think is a threat to ice, you are breaking the law. You're a domestic terrorist. Therefore, you qualify for us to invoke the Insurrection act in response to a rebellion or an insurrection. And what happens is you send the Military in to be the bodyguards for ice, and then ICE can continue to tear up places. And you put the military in between in this terrible situation where maybe they're not kicking in the doors, but they're protecting the door kickers. Right? And that is, I think, when we're going to get to a crossroads where a lot of military folks are going to say, okay, I get it, I don't love it, but I'm going to go do it. And then they're thrust into this situation where they are in an unimaginable position of standing. Instead of between, you know, the Ku Klux Klan and black kids, they're going to be standing between ICE and protesters. And that's when bad shit's going to happen. Now, you know, it looks like. I think he's going to do it. I think he's going to do it in Minneapolis. Sorry, go ahead.

[C]

No, go ahead. I just do want to add, like, one of the things that happened when he tried to federalize the National Guard, which is a different statute. Okay, Title 10 statute. A Title 10.

[B]

The other thing it does is it establishes command because when you federalize the National Guard, he's the commander in chief, not the state governor. So he can say to Tim Walsh, I'm taking the Minnesota National Guard. They now answer to me, you know what.

[C]

And what was really interesting in those litigation that happened under. When he did that in these, Oregon, in California, is that they really parsed the criteria under that Title 10 statute to see whether he met that criteria. And when they finally decided that he didn't, it was because, you know, they interpreted the statute to mean that, you know, it's like he couldn't. He was unable to execute the law with regular forces. He administration claimed regular forces was ice. The court said no, regular forces means the military. I say this to say that, you know, I do think he's going to do it. But the Insurrection act authorizes the military only when, and I'm quoting here, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination or conspiracy, opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice. And one important thing is that when this was interpreted by the Department of Justice, the Justice Department said that this standard is met when either the people who are engaging in violence are doing it with the approval of the state authorities or like with the Ku Klux Klan, you know, in the 1870s, they basically taken over control. And so what I'm trying to say here is the bar might be high. Like it is going to get litigated. So here, he'll do it. I think there is a potential chance that. I mean, the situation in Minneapolis is a little bit volatile. So it's. It's more so than California, Oregon, and Illinois. But he does have a higher bar to meet. So it's not necessarily, I think, a given that he'll get away with it legally.

[B]

He. Look, here's what I predict. He's going to send him into being bodyguards for ice. He's going to challenge people to poke him. Right. To hit him. Right. And then the first people come after ice. You have the. Or the National Guard, then you arrest them. You start arresting anybody who's attacked, quote, unquote, attacked a National Guardsman or an ICE agent. You call him a domestic terrorist. And then, you know, all the way up onto Waltz. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if he arrested Waltz. Call Waltz a domestic terrorism. Say he's trying to sow rebellion. I mean, he's basically gonna turn the tables and everything that he got accused of on January 6th, he's gonna accuse his political enemies of. Except this time it's not true. I know you've got a. Got a thing after this. So let me ask you to quickly go below the radar. What's. What are people not watching? Like, I think the. The Insurrection act should be front and center every show. Sunday talk shows, most of them are spending, like, two minutes on it, and then they go over to something else. I think this is the thing. But is there one thing, Asha, that you think is below the radar that people should watch for?

[C]

Oh, my gosh. I'm only watching the things that are on the radar myself. I mean, obviously, I. I mean, and I don't know that this counts as below the radar, but I'm very concerned about the whole Greenland thing.

[B]

Yeah, the whole Greenland thing.

[C]

The whole Greenland thing. We're also waiting to see. We're waiting for the Supreme Court to release its opinion on the tariffs.

[B]

I think that's an important one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And I mean, that's. That's a really.

[B]

Again. But again, you know, I think this is going to be a test, too. I don't think he's going to give a shit. Right. Like, I mean, he keeps moving forward, and even if the courts rule against him, like, DC Is a great example. They said he had to pull the national guard out of D.C. then two national Guardsmen got shot. He asked for an extension. They stayed longer. What's the court's enforcement mechanism? If he says, okay, if the courts Rule, hey, Insurrection act is illegally used. You shouldn't have federal troops in Minnesota. What do the courts do? They write an opinion about it. And he challenged and he. What does he do?

[C]

So you're right.

[B]

You argue that their laws are illegal than anybody executing that. That. That's. This was where we get into the illegal orders, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This is where we get into the. The Kelly.

[C]

This is where. Yes, 100%. So I think that's a good point. Now, first of all, I do think that be, you know, I see a lot of people saying, you know, the law doesn't matter anymore. Who, you know, he. He's going to do whatever he wants. It does matter, and we've seen it matter. By the way, like, I agree that he's completely contemptuous of the law, but he did comply with the court's decision to get the National Guard out. Like, I mean, in other words, they have reluctantly complied or complied like, you know, right up to the, you know, toe in the line. And, you know, they're pretty much in contempt of court, but they're not quite flouting it completely. I think you make an excellent point, Paul, that once a court says something, that is the law. That is the law. That is the law that all of these service members are sworn to uphold. Right. They are not sworn to, you know, follow whatever Donald Trump says, no matter what. They're. They're. They uphold the Constitution of the United States, which is the law, and the courts say what the law is. So it does make a difference in that regard because it creates a clear line of what they are allowed to do and what they're not.

[B]

I think that's a hard stop at the top of the hour.

[C]

I do, but I got four more minutes.

[B]

Okay, so we got four minutes. We're gonna fly through this. Okay.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

We're gonna go through. I can't leave you here without having you. Okay. Friday football. Boom. We're going to Friday football. Here it is. I went six for six last week. Divisional round of playoffs. We're gonna fly through them, and I'm gonna come to you with something good. We're gonna try to do it in a speed round. I feel like Chris berman. Okay. Tomorrow, 4:30, Bills. Buffalo Bills go into Denver Broncos. I'm picking the Bills. I'm not betting against Josh Allen. Who you got? Asha?

[C]

You have to give me cities.

[B]

Denver against Buffalo.

[C]

Denver.

[B]

All right, There you go. All right. Divisional round. Also, Texans are going into New England to play the Patriots. This is Sunday. This is going to be a Sunday Game. Texans are on fire, but I think the Patriots are too good. Drake May is too good. I hate to say it. I'm picking the Pats to beat the Texans and move on. New England or Houston? Asha, which one do you like better?

[C]

I feel like I have to pick New England because I live here.

[B]

Because you're in Connecticut. Yeah.

[C]

So you guys are mad at Texas? I'm mad at Texas as a state generally.

[B]

Okay, I feel you. All right. Tomorrow night, 8pm, Seahawks at home are hosting the 49ers. I love the 49ers, but my man George Kittle is down pouring some out for your man. So I can't pick against the Seahawks with the depleted 49ers. Brock Purdy didn't look good last week. I'm taking the Seahawks. Asha, San Francisco or Seattle?

[C]

Seattle.

[B]

Both great cities. Right. When I was. When I was on book tour, they told me that Seattle reads more books per capita than anywhere else in America. And I'm sure it has something to do with the weather, but not just that. Smart people in Seattle. Okay. Finally, Sunday night, Chicago Bears hosting the LA Rams. This one is a tough one. This is a really, really tough one. The Bears looked kind of fragile last week. I'm going with the experienced quarterback in Los Angeles and the Rams to take out the Bears at home. Tough one to choose, but I'm taking the LA Rams over the Chicago Bears. Who you got? Asha, LA, or Chicago? Both cities occupied by National Guard troops and potentially.

[C]

I know they both get sympathy points, but my podcast co host lives in Chicago, so I have to. I have to say Chicago.

[B]

I love it. I love it. You may. You may beat me and go 4 for 4. I went 6 for 6 last week, but I don't know.

[C]

I've been telling you that this is how I choose my wines. I like. Look at the labels and which one. Whichever one is prettiest. Is that how I pick it?

[B]

We're going to need a lot of wine and a lot of football, but we're also going to need something good.

[D]

Something good.

[B]

And every day I pick something good. I got a cool one. We have a new independent American song. You guys have been asking me about the music on this show. Some of you have asked about something good. That is a Chris Rosenthal production. A producer, brilliant creative mind behind a lot of this show, created something good. And he also created a great new song called Independent is an Attitude. He's going to play it right now. Check this out.

[D]

And when you wait, it's time to grow.

[B]

All right. I Love the song. There it is. You can get it on YouTube. We're gonna post our Spotify page soon, and I'm gonna play that song more often. Big shout out to Chris Rosenthal, Creative Chris Rosenthal. That's my something good to motivate you on a Friday. Asha Rangappa. What's your something good?

[C]

My something good. So I went to see a band last night, and I'm not, like, I don't go to a ton of, like, live music, but it was a band that I like, but they had the. The opener is a local band called Mates of State, and they're. They have a good sound. I like it. So I'm excited this weekend to kind of check them out a little bit more.

[B]

Right on. All right, shout out to Mates of State. I will find them and link to them in the show notes. They're definitely something good. Asha, you are something good. You're brilliant. You're dynamic. You're a true patriot. You keep bringing it. We're going to need to talk to you a lot in the next couple of weeks, and I hope if he does invoke the Insurrection act, he'll come back on and we can respond in real time. But thank you for all you're doing, my friend. Enjoy the music.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Enjoy the wine, and happy Friday. All right, folks, there you have it. Asha Rangappa. My thanks to Asha, and I love that she shouted out, mates of State want to support independent music. We talked about independent film this week. We talk about independent candidates, and I want to shout out more independent artists. So if you got one that you want to put on my radar, let me know. It is Friday. We made it. But don't expect the weekend to stop President Mayhem's freight train of destruction. If he does something big, I will cut you a quick pod. Hopefully you got the one I dropped this morning. Maybe it came out this afternoon. Looks like there was some technical issues with the podcast posting, but you got a quick one before this. If you didn't go back and check it out, and I hope you liked it. If you like those little quick ones that I'm putting out, let me know. Let me know what you think. But look for them every morning. We're going to drop the shows, you know, later in the day, 4, 5, 6 o', clock, hopefully, for your drive or ride home from work or maybe on your way in if you're working a night shift, but that's going to be the pattern. But look for stuff in the morning if something happened overnight or is this breaking news. I'm going to try to respond to it. I was on tv, as I mentioned, with Ms. NOW yesterday with Katie Turr for my regular segment. Thank you to her. And we're going to continue to post all those media hits on our YouTube page. We are daily now and we're hitting the charts, man. We broke the top 40. That is a big deal. It means we're knocking on the door behind Rogan and Tucker Carlson and Sean Ryan and all these other folks. So keep it coming. Keep pushing this show out and letting people know about what we're bringing it. We had a big week. We had Ruth Ben Guyot. If you didn't hear that, check it out. Lindsay Church. Also you can watch on YouTube a great example of an episode you want to watch. You Sheriff Chris Swanson came to us in his car from outside of Ford Field in Detroit and we finished strong with Asha Rangapa. Tell me what guests you all want to hear. Shout me out. Let me know. Let me know what kind of guests you want to hear. Who do you want to hear? I mentioned we got Jesse Ventura, I hope. Coming up next Friday for Friday football. Willie Geist. The great Willie Geist. One of the coolest guys around. We'll be here. Also a Giants fan, so we'll talk a little bit about Harbaugh. In the future. We'll dig into the NFL. We'll have more surprises and quick response pods. Be sure to subscribe. Do me a Friday solid. Hit the subscribe button right now, wherever you're listening. And rate us. Rate us. And also YouTube and Apple Podcasts are really the workhorses for us. We got IA Merch, really cool merch. Check that out if you want to support and thank you to our Patreon community, the folks that are really helping us bring you this important stuff like going deeper on the Insurrection Act. It was a long week. I got basketball for my son tonight and basketball for the kids all weekend. Last night my son is on the Thunder. That's one of his teams. They won by 20. The big guy had a great game. I love to see him passing and setting picks and 10 rebounds. He's going to be like a Bill Lambert or a Dennis Rodman and frankly, that's the kind of player that I want him to be. Enough of the flashy stuff and the step backs. My kids set picks and play defense. Also. It will be MLK weekend and I just want to mention that, you know, I talk to my kids about MLK Jr. As an example of what leadership looks like and that Peaceful, strong, patriotic, brave example is more important now than ever, especially with all that's happening in Minneapolis. So I want to celebrate the life and the legacy of MLK Jr. I hope this show does that in some part and that you can do your part over this weekend as and in the days to come. There's no time to be on the sidelines. Do what you can. Get involved. America's divided, but here at Independent Americans, I am working to change that and bringing light to contrast the heat, even when I have no voice, even when I have a flu. And it's nothing to compare to what people are doing in Iran and Minneapolis and Ukraine. But if you're among the now 45% of Americans who are independent, big news this week, we're hitting 45% and climbing. This is your show. Our independent movement is the hope for the future. We are the future of politics in America. Country over party, people over politics, light over heat, challenging the status quo. And our movement is growing. I have more candidates who are being announced, who are stepping forward to run as independence. And I hope they will come here first and show that hope is coming out of our community and that hope is the oxygen of democracy. If you enjoyed this episode with Asha, you know what to do. Share it far and wide and invite others to declare their independence. Shut off the standard old corporate cable news and tune in here and stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And no, you're not alone and you're vigilant in your vigilance. We are all vigilant. We're all in this together, especially over this long weekend. We can reflect on that as we think about the legacy of Martin Luther King Jr. Which we need to invoke now and remember now more than ever. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for tuning into Independent Americans. I will see you on Monday and Wednesday over the weekend if anything breaks. But let's hope it doesn't, but be ready in case it does, because it's 2026, people. Happy Friday. Good luck to all you rooting for your teams and most of all, to our brave friends in Iran, in Ukraine, in Venezuela, in Minneapolis and around the world. Stay vigilant, America. Stay vigilant.

[D]

He says the red and blue are dead and independent is an attitude, an island in the sea of rhetoric, an archipelago. He tells me the left and right are dreams for those without a clue. And when you wake, it's time to grow. And it's not cool to believe in school. But If I can say one thing. I've seen the children of the revolution and the good trouble they can bring.