← Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Mick Foley. EXCLUSIVE. Wrestling Legend Speaks Out. On Trump, ICE, Iran, a “Shiny New Toy” Military.
00:56:17
WWE Hall of Famer and hardcore legend Mick Foley returns to join Independent Americans host Paul Rieckhoff for an EXCLUSIVE, extended, a no-holds-barred conversation about his powerful and viral Instagram post, leaving the WWE, Trump’s reckless push toward war with Iran and why it’s time for a new wave of independent veterans to step into the political ring.
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- [00:01]
Bleacher Report Announcer
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- [00:31]
Mick Foley
Carvana is so easy. Just a click and we've got ourselves a car.
- [00:35]
Paul Rykoff
See so many cars.
- [00:37]
Carvana Advertiser
That's a clicktastic inventory.
- [00:39]
Mick Foley
And check out the financing options, payments to fit our budget.
- [00:42]
Carvana Advertiser
I mean, that's Clickonomics101.
- [00:44]
Mick Foley
Delivery to our door.
- [00:46]
Carvana Advertiser
Just a hop, skip and a click away.
- [00:48]
Mick Foley
And bought.
- [00:50]
Carvana Advertiser
No better feeling than when everything just clicks. Buy your car today on Carvana. Delivery fees may apply.
- [01:01]
Paul Rykoff
This is Mike Bolough of Lexicon Valley
- [01:03]
Mick Foley
and I'm Bob Garfield. Are you one of those people who sometimes uses words?
- [01:08]
Paul Rykoff
Do you communicate or acquire information with, you know, language? Hey, us too.
- [01:16]
Mick Foley
So join us on Lexicon Valley to chew over the history, culture and many mysteries of English, plus some wisecracks.
- [01:24]
Paul Rykoff
Find us on one of those apps where people listen to podcasts.
- [01:29]
Mick Foley
Whether it's going to war in Iran, whether it's just indiscriminately. I don't mean to laugh, but just. I think he's like a. I think he's both a kid with a shiny new toy who realizes the military's at his disposal, and I'm not kidding when I say there might be some elder abuse going on at the hands of Stephen Miller.
- [02:07]
Paul Rykoff
Welcome to a very special Independent Americans. I am your host, Paul Rykoff. Independent Americans around the country, around the world, people who are fans of wrestling, people who are fans of democracy, people who are fans of inspiring leaders. We have a returning champion who is a true champion. A man who's joined us before. He is the hardcore legend. He is Mankind. Cactus Jack, dude love. At least four time world champion. 11 time tag team champion, one one WCW World Championship. A TNA Legends champion, inaugural WWF Hardcore champion. He's in the WWE hall of Fame. And he is an incredibly good person and role model and patriot and philanthropist. A man who gives back a tremendous amount to our country. A person who will ensure that even in times like this, we will all have a nice day. The great and powerful Mick Foley is back on. Independent Americans. Welcome back.
- [03:05]
Mick Foley
Mick thank you. I'm sure glad you used the same adjectives on me that you would use on the wizard of Oz. Right? The great and powerful Mick Foley. I'm winning. I'm going to copyright that.
- [03:17]
Paul Rykoff
I think you can copyright whatever you want, Mick. As your Mick, I'm so happy you're joining me again. It's been a while. You and I stay in close touch. I want to ask you a bunch of questions about the video you posted, the message you've got, but let me just start with what I ask everybody. Where are you, my friend? And how are you?
- [03:40]
Mick Foley
I am in a nondescript hotel room outside of Cincinnati in Sharonville, Ohio, getting ready to do the. The Horror Hound convention, because for some reason, the type of wrestling I did lends itself to the. The horror crowd.
- [03:56]
Paul Rykoff
And what's that like, man? What's that like?
- [03:59]
Mick Foley
It's. It's. It's fun. I mean, it's fun, you know, my. Both of my younger boys and the older kids, too. I have 34, 32, 25, 23. They. They all have loved the horror movies, you know, so, like, how many guys can say, like, they've met five Michael Myers and three leather Faces, a whole bunch of Jason's, you know, it's fun and it has. The crowds have something in common, and they're both incredibly respectful. I remember seeing a documentary on Friday the 13th because at one point we watched all of them. And the woman who played a central character in the first one remarked on how surprised she was about how nice people were at these conventions. You know, it's almost like having that one outlet, you know, that's kind of rough. Allows people to embrace their, you know, kinder side, you know. Can I give you a quick story? Dee Snider, you know, the front man for Twisted Sister. You know, Dee and I met in 2001, hit it off, you know, instantly became. Got to the point he was one of my probably five best friends. And then we just exchanged emails maybe a month ago saying, hey, you know, well, they don't see us. Still consider one of my great friends. And he writes back, ditto. So he used to just randomly call me, right? And he would, like, with a thought. And one time I pick up the Mick D. I said, how you doing? D. Goes, do you think all that, like, wild stuff you did in your career allows you to embrace, like, a kinder, gentler side of yourself? And I said, yeah, I think it does. He goes, yeah, me too. Okay, good talking to you. And he hung up. But I think there's something to that. You know, like, I don't. I have no problem driving a minivan, you know, scrapbooking, because if I want to prove my manliness, I got a couple hundred hours of me doing, like, manly stuff on. On tape or streaming services. So, yeah, yeah, I. I do enjoy doing that. I mean, I. I appreciate a respectful audience in the horror convention. People are really respectful, and, you know, like, I've got a friend coming today who wants to meet Elv, and I'm like, I can make that happen. I've known Cassandra for, you know, for 20 years, so it's a lot of fun. You see a lot of familiar faces, but the fans are. The fans are great.
- [06:23]
Paul Rykoff
You know, there's something in that that I want to pull out and raise up, Mick, which is how kindness is a really important part of strength and real toughness. And anybody who knows you knows that you are one of the kindest people. I mean, you play Santa Claus every holiday. You sent notes of Santa Claus to my kids. You sent messages.
- [06:43]
Mick Foley
Talk about the handwriting, Paul.
- [06:45]
Paul Rykoff
The Handwri, the Meticulous. You do Santa's handwriting. You do them by hand, have them framed on the wall. It's beautiful, Mick. I mean, but it's also. It's a time when manhood is being kind of manipulated and fake. Tough guys, it seems like a rule in the world. Nobody more so than Trump. And we do a show often called Manosphere Monday, where we talk about what it means to be, you know, a real man, a real woman, a real leader, a real. A person of integrity. Can you talk about that in this moment? Because, as I've told you, my kids are now, you know, becoming wrestling fans. They look up to you. And I met you because you were doing something very kind. You were going to Walter Reed to help wounded veterans and to give them a boost. You've done so much charity work. You helped us at iva, but. But kindness is strength, and I don't know if anybody shows it more than you, man.
- [07:34]
Mick Foley
Well, I appreciate that. I was reading a. A memoir, and I think they were quoting a famous quote saying there's nothing, nothing tougher than. Than. Nothing tougher than true gentleness. Nothing as gentle as true toughness. I think that's. I think there's something to that. And I'm. I'm a little disappointed that, you know, my fellow tough men, you know, my colleagues, contemporaries I get under in wwe, have not spoken up, with the exception of Jesse Vetura, about what's going on, because, I mean, I know we're kind of jumping into the presidential situation. But that's not toughness. You know, in my experience, you know, tough people don't brag about how tough they are. With the exception of Dwayne Johnson, who has my permission to talk in third person. You know, third person talk. Everything that should be a red flag is not to a certain percentage of people, I think, Paul, because I think there's a real, I know we're kind of veering off from the kindness, but I think there's a real issue with people admitting they may have been wrong about something. So you remember when you and I met 23, 24 years ago, I was going to Walter Reed and Bethesda on a monthly basis for two years. I went every month and I mean, there were two or three times when USL Metro Washington paid for my hotel at like a gala. But you know, the car, the gas, the tolls, the hotels were usually mine. And I was really happy to do it. And so I was a guy who did my best to not just talk, to talk in supporting the troops. You know, I thought the troops, our troops deserve better than a magnet on my car that will eventually be taken off. Right. I, I wonder at what point millions of America decided to take their magnets, declaring their, their support for the troops. And sometimes I think, you know, you talk to these people, yeah, I support the troops, but none of it's going to cost me money or yes, I support the troops, but not when they need me. So I've seen a lot of people, I mean, tens of millions of people, I would guess, change their opinion of how they felt about the war, whether outwardly or to themselves. But at the time, 2002, 2003, if you were someone who had misgivings about the war, you were almost branded a traitor by some of the news outlets. And so I think our men and women need us. The, the biggest decision any president has is to send our men and women in uniform to war. And we have a guy who's just flippant about it. And I don't understand how his apparent total lack of empathy cannot dissuade and disgust more people. And so I know you reached out to me because I had put out a video where I was just appealing to like sensible people, like independents, conservatives, it doesn't matter. You know, I mean, these are by and large really good, kind hearted people who somehow turn a blind eye to cruelty that's going on with our immigrants, the casualness of which we go to war. And so I'm just Appealing to, you know, to sensible people to say, hey, it doesn't matter what side of the aisle you're on. You know, I happen to be a registered independent who leans progressive, but I don't think I'm. You know, first of all, anyone who's on the left wing does. That doesn't make them a lunatic. Like, you don't have to follow up left wing with the word lunatic, you know, I guess, you know, you say there's another term, you know, right wing, wing, you know, whatever. But just because someone holds a certain set of beliefs doesn't make them a good or bad person. But I think we have to come together and agree that what's going on in our country is not right. And it's unprecedented.
- [11:55]
Paul Rykoff
Mick, let me build on that if I can, because you've been courageous your whole life. I mean, your entire origin story, the grittiness, the toughness. Is it true that you hitchhiked from. From upstate to Madison Square Garden to see Jimmy Superfly Snuka wrestle once? Is that true?
- [12:15]
Mick Foley
I did. But let me preface that by saying the original plan was to have my mom and dad drop me off at the Greyhound bus station with my buddy Scott. And then they were going to go visit my brother at Indiana University, and we were going to get a friend to pick us up and take us home. And then I would catch the Long Island Railroad a couple hours. And then all of a sudden, my buddy goes, Scott, like 30 minutes later, we're hiding out behind the slope of a hill. He says, mick, your mom and dad are here. I was like, no, there's no way. And I look up and it just reminded me like they were like big game hunters, you know? So I got. I got. You know, I don't want to say I was scared, but I was trepidatious. And I. We did catch the bus. And then I was like, I cannot miss this match. So I got out and I put the thumb out and. Because I was by myself back in the days when they were actually scalpers, you know, with, you know, tickets in hand, I guess maybe. I don't know. I don't think that that's a thing anymore. Right. With the online stuff, I don't think it's a thing. And I was able to score a really good ticket, and, you know, I wanted to be there. I had a feeling that history was going to be made. And it's still a match that people talk about this day. So I don't regret it, even though I did take a bus back and I was so tired that I missed my stop by, like, 100 miles. And I think I had to, you know, hitchhike from Rochester to Cortland, New York. So, yeah, and that's another, you know, you just don't see the hitchhike anymore.
- [13:47]
Paul Rykoff
You know, I mean, that's like. It's a reflection of how. Well, a lot to unpack there. Right. But, like, that's a reflection of how people maybe aren't as trusting anymore as they used to be. Right. And there's not that. That feeling of kind of citizenship and community, but, like, your. Your story of going down to see Snuka, who. I grew up, you know, at the tail end of Snuka, who inspired the hell out of me. Just his physical courage and his tenacity. Right. And there was, like, a nobility to him. Right. And I think that that was. That was. That was reflective of so many of these superheroes that met the moment. And you have been doing that your whole life, but you're a superhero in real life, too, because you're speaking out. And I want to go back to that point you made about 2003, 2004. That's when people got canceled, right? Like Jeanine Garofalo, the Dixie Chicks. People spoke out. Pop culture people were keeping their heads down. They're like, oh, this war in Iraq is going to be over in a couple days. And now here it is, deja vu all over again. And the seal is starting to break. And I feel like it's breaking very quickly, but it's also breaking because people in pop culture, in entertainment, are speaking out. I think the Grammys was very important where people broke the seal. And they didn't talk about Trump. They talked about ice, Right? And, like, ice was like, their gateway to talking about Trump. And now Iran is a gateway to talking about Trump. But also, it requires courage to talk specifically about Trump. And you mentioned Jesse Ventura was on the show a couple weeks ago. Folks should check that out, if they haven't already. He's always been a truth teller. But there's still a lot of people who maybe are keeping their heads down. They're like, you know, maybe I'll wait and see how this goes. Maybe my pocketbook might get impacted. But your message to the people, and this is my top topic for our conversation, I really think is important because you said, we are better than this. Right. And I'm gonna let you build on that. But you said you talked about Alex Peretti, you talked about Renee Goode, you talked about appealing to Good hearted, sensible people supporting immigrants. And I really think there's a moment, Mick, I've said this a lot in the last couple weeks, where the country's actually united, like, they're actually united against ice, they're united against the Iran war, and increasingly against Trump. And, you know, Sean Ryan, I saw today, the podcaster has now broken ranks. You know, Tucker Carlson, people on the left, the right, everywhere, there's actually a moment here, and they're looking for leaders. And that's why I think your message is resonating so much, because you are a leader they trust and you're speaking out bravely. So build on that if you can. You know, why do you want people to think about the fact that we are better than this?
- [16:12]
Mick Foley
Oh, I think we're better than this because, as I said in the video, like, I mean, I've, I've, I've, I've worked in every single state in this country, red, blue and purple, 37 different countries. And I've, you know, I, I estimate I have 2 million miles on the road, right? I mean, 50,000 miles a year by 40 years. That's, it's a, it's a very safe estimate. And then, you know, at least another 3 or 4 million by air. So I've, I've worked all the states. I, because I broke in, in western Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania had, they had a athletic commission. It was more expensive to run a show there than it was in Ohio and West Virginia. So I imagine I've seen more of Ohio, West Virginia and Pennsylvania as well than all. But those seeking presidency. And West Virginia, not so much. It's not a swing state. But I've been around this country and I, and I struggled, you know, I mean, you know, financially, physically. I wasn't somebody who was, you know, earmarked as being a star. And I was notoriously thrifty, you know, partially out of necessity, but partially because, you know, my mom, especially my mom, was that way. I don't think I ever saw my mom look at a check where she didn't go. She just didn't matter where we were. She was going to gasp about it. You know, the Czech, she grew up, you know, very poor on a small farm in upstate western New York. And so I was thrifty out of necessity and out of by choice. And I received so much kindness from strangers. And, I mean, I wasn't asking people for how they voted. But, you know, if a guy's giving me a direction, he's wearing a MAGA hat, but he couldn't Be nicer, you know, and he's very helpful to me. When my GPS went out and you're sleeping on couches or spare rooms of people and, you know, there's an assumption based on where they live and what they're talking about that they lean a certain way, but they were kind and they have been. I also mentioned in my video that I was full time on the roads for 15 years. And you have travel partners who you spend more time with than you do your family. And I realized that with the exception of one person, Jim Cornette, who's very progressive, every person I rode with regularly was, you know, was independent, leaning slightly conservative or in the middle. And I didn't. I got along with all of them. They were obviously among my best friends. You know, like, I never even asked. Terry Funk. Terry Funk. And that's with an N, in case there's any, you know, FCC discussions, we would have these discussions. And I never said, terry, are you. We never was. He get, you know, are you a Republican? Because I assumed he was, based on what we spoke about. But he would always say, cactus. That's interesting. Why do you feel that way? And then he would counter. I remember listening to a Steve Earle song called Billy Austin. It's a first person account. I don't know if you're familiar with it. First person account. Very harrowing, you know, song about a first person account of a young man on death row. And there's a line in there that says, could you still pull that switch, sir? Could you still pull that switch, sir? With a sure and steady hand. And could you still tell yourself, sir, that you're better than I am? And I play. And I had that. Had Terry listen to it in Japan. And he took off the headphones, he goes, they're damn right I could. But that's a really good song because it made people think. And so we don't all have to agree on everything. For example, there's a guy named Brian Blair who is the head of Cauliflower Alley Club. And Cauliflower Alley Club is the only registered charity that helps out wrestlers in need. And there's a lot of them. So I do this one man show. It's called the 40 Years of Foley Tour. And it's winding down. I think we have seven or eight more dates, but we've raised $35,000 just by auctioning off the shirts that I'm wearing. I call it the Shirt off my back auction 35 and these. And people know, $35,000, but $500 a show they know it's a $25Amazon shirt. And what I mean, you know, I've got about $35, and they're, you know, paying a lot of money because they. They believe in this. Brian is the former. I'm trying to think I should know this. He was in the higher end of politics in Hillsborough county in Tampa. So he was basically in charge of Hillsborough County. And he's pretty conservative. And yet he and I have become really close through the cauliflower Club. And even yesterday he texted me, he's like, brother, we might not agree on everything, but, you know, you are a good man and we're so proud to have you here. And I was like, brian, I'm proud of the fact that we don't agree on everything. And yet we come together for the, you know, the common good, you know, with a common purpose. So I know, Paul, that we are better than this because more, you know, politicians go out there and they only speak to people who already feel the way they do. Right? And I spent two days canvassing for Obama in the primary against Hillary Clinton in the Scranton area. I have a lot of respect for any politician who can go out there and hit the roads, because as much as I'm on the road, and I'm on the road a lot. 320 days on the road last year at age I'm 60 now. But to go out there and have to go to every diner, Dunkin shaking hands. And there was a lot of disparity among the Hillary and Obama camps. And believe me, racism is not limited to one party. There was quite a bit of cruel comments that I encountered in my two days concerning President Obama's heritage. But I know we're better than this, Paul, and I have to believe were better than this. Like I said in the video, I, you know, when I was watching one of the news shows, and the 65%, while 65% are think ISIS has gone, not ISIS has gone too far. And they brought that up, like, what a. You know, the country's in the right direction. And I was thinking, wait, 35% are watching what I see on television and they're for it. And I just. I can't believe it. This brings us back to the discussion about the war in Iraq and how long it took some people to come to terms with the idea they may have been wrong. It's really difficult to admit to yourself that you are wrong. Especially, you know, when the man you look up to, President of the United States, never, ever admits that he's Wrong. And if that's your role model and that's the tact you take, you're going to be resistant to admitting you were fooled by a con man. And not even a very good con man, in my opinion, like, maybe, because I grew up on Long island and I saw Trump in the news years before he became a national figure. You know, he was New York News for years. It was like, all right, he's a fun, you know, harmless con man. And he was until he became. Well, he wasn't, you know, after he gained the level of fame he did on Apprentice and started, you know, looking at Obama's, you know, the birther gave rise to the birther movement. And I think Paul, and I don't think this is going out on a limb to say he realized that the, you know, like, the flow of racism was much closer to the surface than a lot of us wanted to admit. It was almost like an investigative. I can't say there was certainty, but I'm guessing he saw he had something. And I have to. But this goes back to the 35%. I have to believe that the number is closer to 10. I have to believe that only one out of 10 people I meet is for what ICE is doing. Otherwise, this is just a cruel country. And I think that 10% are a probably. I don't. This is where we get a gotcha moment. I believe there's a certain amount of racists who are going to vote against their will, against their best interests, because it goes back to what LBJ said. He said, if you can convince the lowest white man that he is higher than the highest white man, he will let you pick his pocket every time. Convince him the black man is to blame, he'll empty his pocket for you. And he also said, after the Civil Rights act was signed, I remember telling my son Huey when he was, like, 16, 17 about what LBJ said. We've just lost the south for 30 years. And Huey said, did that turn out to be true? I said, no, they've lost it for 60. You know, you know, I go, I drive past, and you see the Confederate flags flying, you know, still, you know, monuments to, you know, to Confederacy, to the Confederacy. I'm trying to. Jefferson Davis's, you know, home is a. You know, is a monument down South. And I respect the idea. I mean, I. I read all the. The Bruce Catton trilogy on the Civil War and Shelby Foote, and there was one. The Battle Cry of Freedom was a great one, volume. One volume. It was like this. And I don't think the Civil War is as cut and dried, you know, like, as, you know, maybe I'm wandering into territory that's, you know. But I, you know, when you've read 17 or 18 books and they're all like, you know, acclaimed books, you have to respect that people's great great grandparents or great great great grandparents, you know, fought and died for something they believed in. Back when states rights were. States were more important than the nation because by and large, you know, before there was railways and. And highways, you know, you were. You grew up in the state you were born, and you lived and died there. So. But this goes back to, you know, sleeping on couches with people in the Deep south who felt differently than I did. You know, up until a certain point, it was pretty common to call it the War of Northern Aggression, you know, and you have to accept that people feel a certain way. But again, Paul, I think that the number should be closer to 10%. And those are just the people who are not going to change their ways are dead set in it. And hopefully, you know, another generation from now that number will be even lower. But I think we have to admit there's a certain number, but the number's not 35%.
- [27:48]
Paul Rykoff
I think it's all really important, Mick, because you're kind of. You're pulling it open and you're also. What's happened in the last couple weeks is it's crossed over into pop culture, and that's kind of what Trump wanted, right? Trump wanted this interception of football and UFC and wrestling. He rode that, he manipulated that. But now it's kind of coming back to bite him in a way. And I think that's really a powerful moment where, you know, it's crossing over into so many parts of our life that people are understanding. You know, for the guy who said, you know, I don't want politics involved in everything, now politics is involved in everything, and the culture war is involved in everything. And his approach and his meanness is involved in everything. Let's go what I call below the radar a little bit and ask you to talk about this piece that I think is really kind of seminal, which is his leadership, right? And him as a, you know, used to be a superhero for many, now he's becoming the super villain. Now he's the heel, right? And he liked being the heel for a long time, but now it's gone over the edge where he's really becoming, especially outside of America, hated and despised and not trusted. And now, to use your, you know, your reference about the Civil War. Now we've got young men and women again who are going to die for a politician and for power and for who knows what. But he's also got this incredible intersection with the hardcore culture, right? He's going to bring UFC to the White House. Maybe he would have brought WWE a couple years ago, but he's going to bring UFC to the White House. He's got Lyndon McMahon as his secretary of Education. I think you said once at one point there were four people in the White House who had gotten stone cold stunners, right? Now, I feel like, you know, Linda
- [29:25]
Mick Foley
McMahon, Triple H, Stephanie, and Donald Trump himself. You know, to his credit, he took a pretty good stunner. I thought he would. I'll give him his flowers. He was. He was good on wwe, right? Like, unfortunately, I think what he learned was the power of the repetition of a single, single point. I think he got that from wrestling. You know, like, you know, you go out there and you tell people, you know, you. You tell people, this is the most meaningful title in the wrestling universe. You know, I am, you know. You know, Vince McMahon never once called Shane McMahon Shane. He said, my son Shane, you know, and Paul Heyman, Brock Lesnar was the man who defeated the Undertaker streak, like, for two years, right? Like, the single repetition of a thought, and I'll back that up, that I can't scientifically prove this, but EDM Copeland and I had a really good match called a hardcore anything goes match in 2006 at WrestleMania. And I happened to be in the UK doing the. I was talking to a college in the United Kingdom. You know, the books I wrote and the success I had with, you know, the first few made me, you know, I guess, a respectable college lecturer. And I happened to be in the uk, so they had me on the show and they had Edge and I doing an interview segment, even though we were rivals. And I said. I said, I think we should both refer to it as the greatest hardcore match of all time. And he said, why? I said, because if we both repeat it for three weeks, people will accept it as fact. You know, I. You. I know I'm. I'm working in Santa theory here. This is. But I. I try take a lot of pride in doing everything the best I can do it. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing well. So for 10 years, I really did grow out my own beard for, you know, six months minimum a year. Like, I would shave Christmas Day and boom, go all out, you know, grow it as long as I Could bleach it for a month, where I would volunteer. The only time I ever accepted money for portrayal of Santa was for a commercial where, you know, clearly there was money being made. But as far as my visits for many years, it was every single day working for Christmas Magic, which is a great organization on Long island, helps make the magic of Christmas morning possible for kids living, you know, below the poverty line. So I went in, and I heard this one really wizened member of the Santa community, the greatest storytelling Santa. His name's Stephen Gillum. And he mentioned that there are three, usually three indicators for a child to believe you are the real guy. You know, the biggest compliment you can receive. And I received this. Charlie Russo, who founded. He didn't co found. He founded Christmas Magic. Great guy, an attorney on Long Island. They turn his office into, like, a North Pole workshop where volunteers come in. The only overhead they have is the insurance on their van. Like, this is just a great group of people. Charlie had rotator cuff surgery, and so he brought me in, like, from the bullpen, you know, to be the guy, you know. And after I did my first appearance for Christmas magic in 2014, even though I'd been a volunteer since 2000, I returned back for another visit a few days later. And the social workers said, do you know what the kids were saying about you on the bus? I said, what? He goes, they were saying that was the real Santa. So I swear there's a political point here. I swear I'm going to tie it in.
- [33:21]
Paul Rykoff
What are the three things, Mick? What are the three things that make a real Santa?
- [33:24]
Mick Foley
I'm doing the weave here, Paul.
- [33:25]
Paul Rykoff
Oh, sorry. Go ahead, man. Sorry. Go, go.
- [33:29]
Mick Foley
So the three things, Ms. Santa could be the beard, you know, but it can't just be the beard. It could be the twinkle in the eyes. It could be the warm laugh, it could be the suit. But usually, three things. It could be the idea that you know the child's name or know something about the child. Three things. So I've taken that to mean in politics, if you hear the same point of view from three different sources that you respect, one of them being your congressional leaders, right? One of them being your news sources that you believe are news and not entertainment. And the third being the guy you look up to, the most powerful man in the world, the President of the United States. And when they're all repeating the same line, you can't help but feel like it's true. And so that's why I don't look at people who've been fooled into thinking they are fools. I look at them as good hearted people who have been misled at the slightest and lied to. I mean, I think it's been proven the President lies like most of us breathe. But that's my feeling is that it is a trifecta of untruth that lead to the brainwashing in some way of a large swath of our electorate.
- [35:01]
Paul Rykoff
I think I'm glad I let you go to the weave. I mean, that was that. That is so spot on. I mean, and when you look at it through the prism of the way you're constructing it and explaining it, I think it helps people understand. That's why I think your voice is so important right now. Because it's giving them permission to say, hey, I was lied to, I was fooled. And you're hearing a lot of people say that he lied to me. He said no new wars. He said gas prices were going to go down. He said no regime change. He said he wasn't going to send our kids to die. And they feel misled and they feel lied to. And it's okay to say, you know what, I got tricked, I got duped. I thought. Or I was hopeful. I was hopeful. And now this moment requires you to speak out and to say that and be a part of this. And I think, Mick, your voice is so important in welcoming people into that conversation. You mentioned that they did a stone cold stunner. I mean, you're doing kind of a mandible claw with his base here. And this is really important because they will listen to you. People who won't listen to anybody in the news, they won't listen to anybody else, but they will listen to Mick Foley because they believe you and they trust you and they know how real you are. I mean, your resume is proven not just in wrestling, but in community and in patriotism. And I think that's so important. I got to ask you, man, because this is independent Americans, you are an independent. I know you're from Long island originally. Can we get you to run as an independent for any office?
- [36:27]
Mick Foley
No. No. You know, part of the reason Brian Blair and I make a good team, a great team, is because, you know, I go out there and I help raise the money and out more in the spotlight. I don't have an organizational bone in my body, you know, like I. What, what did I tell you?
- [36:47]
Paul Rykoff
Good, Mickey. That makes it good. You also don't have all their bullshit. And like this is a moment where I go back to Jesse, right? People used to Dismiss Jesse. They forgot about Jesse. You know, Jesse said you need celebrity or you need money to be able to pull it off as an independent. And you saw that with Schwarzenegger. You know, you've seen that with other people who have an independent.
- [37:07]
Mick Foley
Jesse ran and won as governorship of Minnesota on a $300,000 budget. That's crazy. You can't do that.
- [37:16]
Paul Rykoff
Hey, Mick. Hey, Mick. If you run, I promise you we will raise a lot more than $300,000 if you declare tomorrow.
- [37:23]
Mick Foley
Hold on. Can you brief your listeners on the lengths you had to go to to make sure that I would remember to do this?
- [37:31]
Paul Rykoff
No, because I'm just glad you're here. I'm just glad you're here, brother. And you know what? I tell you, man, this is the truth. You've been through a lot of shit in your life.
- [37:39]
Mick Foley
Yeah.
- [37:39]
Paul Rykoff
And you keep coming like that's why people love you. Because no matter what you go through, you just keep coming and you inspire us and do. You're 60 years old, you're doing 300, you know, plus. And your body, we know, we've seen it has been bruised and shattered. But what I'm so inspired by especially is your wisdom and your clarity and your knowledge and how well read you are. And I said this to you in the warm up and I want to come back to it. Our kids need role models and my kids look up to you and they don't even know about all this other stuff, Right? So now this is such an exciting new chapter of your life where you can talk about all you've learned. You can bring people together, you can build on all. Look, CHUCK Schumer's like 85, man. If you go back to New York and run against Chuck Schumer, you're fucking winning. If you run against Kathy Hochul, if you run against Kathy Hochul for governor, it is lights out. It's over. You will win and you will be governor of New York, my man.
- [38:35]
Mick Foley
You might be onto something, but.
- [38:38]
Paul Rykoff
All right. So that's not a no.
- [38:40]
Mick Foley
It's a definite no, Paul.
- [38:43]
Paul Rykoff
Look, I'm trying to draft. I'm trying to draft, you know, Stephen Colbert to run against Lindsey Graham. We need somebody to run against Fetterman in Pennsylvania because he's lost it. You know, there's a lot of folks out there, so, you know, I don't know what your current home of record is, but I'm starting draft Mick Foley and I hope others will. And if you, if you don't run for office, which I know you won't. Whoever the next president is, I think they need to look to you because you're such a great ambassador for America to the world, and this is really important. Mick, our country needs voices to the world that are not Trump, that are positive, that are kind, that are thoughtful, that are respectful. Half of Denmark thinks we're an adversary now. And people around the world know and love you, and you're a good part of America. And we need you out there more as a counternarrative to this guy who's beyond a villain and beyond a heel. Now.
- [39:31]
Mick Foley
You know what? I don't speak out that much. As far as the videos I do. There was one right before the election, a couple of them now about. A couple of them about ice. Because the crazy thing is there is so much, there is so many terrible things this president has us involved in, whether it's pretending to go to war in Greenland, whether it's going to war in Iran, whether it's just indiscriminately. I don't mean to laugh, but I think he's both a kid with a shiny new toy who realizes the military's at his disposal. And I'm not kidding when I say there might be some elder abuse going on at the hands of Stephen Miller. Just in my opinion, I want to say might be. I mean, you know, if, you know, the situation with Brian Wilson being under almost like the spell of this Lundy guy for decades. Here's Stephen Miller, persuasive speaker, Right. Looks like Roy Cohn's love child. So maybe Donald sees something in him a little bit. I mean, if people knew what an awful guy Roy Cohn was and that Trump was his protege, like, it might have given them reason to pause. But we're, we're in a tough situation here. And it goes back to the, the, the video I did about Trump before the, before the election. I was mentioning this whole thing, the enemy from within. You know, he was basically saying he was going to do what he is doing now. He's attacking people indiscriminately, arresting people. Like Jesse Ventura said, we're, you know, and this is his quote, we're a third world country. You know, when you've got an armed military member on every street corner, you know, you are, that's the sign of a third world country. And he says he knows because he's been there, you know, that the, you know, Philippines was the example when Ferdinand Marcos, you know, took over. All of a sudden, boom, there's a military presence everywhere. I think, you know, there's reason to believe he's just getting the American public used to the idea of military being on our streets. So when he declares some, he's, you know, something's going. I mean, we already see him again. The idea that. And the point I was going to make is that there's so much craziness going on around the President that all of a sudden, the inhumane treatment of migrants is not even in the top five things people are talking about. Right?
- [42:23]
Paul Rykoff
Yep.
- [42:24]
Mick Foley
And it's like, I think there is a major reason to suspect that every time the Epstein files start heating up, he creates a diversion. And as a person who seemingly, in my opinion, lacks the ability to have compassion for others, completely lacking in empathy. And I think it's a shame. We're at a state in our country where empathy is seen as a weakness. When it's our strength, it's like, what prevents us being monsters? Right. Or obviously animals. But that's not fair to animals who do have the ability to empathize. But I realized it. This is a moment when there was literally under a hundred cases of coronavirus. This is at the very beginning of the pandemic. Do you remember? There was a cruise ship where an outbreak had taken place and they wanted to. They were American citizens and they wanted to be treated. And Trump came on and he goes, no, I like our numbers. I want to keep our numbers where they're at. And I just thought to myself, this man has no soul. And I just, I don't. He probably has a soul. He's done some good in some ways, even if it's in the name of bettering himself. And when I say that, I'm talking about the Gaza ceasefire, you know, whether or not he just signed his name on a piece of paper and took credit for ending it, he was instrumental in it. And I don't know if it would have happened under Biden or Kamala, so why not give him credit where it's due? But that's all the credit I'll give him. I'll also give him credit for, like, allowing tens of millions of people to believe that our elections are no longer free and fair. This is one man with one giant sized ego really, you know, really harming the strength of our democracy. And there was, oh, the point I was going to make about the. The video I did before the election. And I pointed out, like, his retribution. He was telling people he was going to seek retribution, he was going to have Mark Milley executed. And it was. I don't know if he specified publicly or not he thought Mark Milley should be executed. He spoke out and said, anyone who criticized the Supreme Court or I believe his other judges should be jailed that he was going to go after President Obama for treason. It's just ridiculous, but this is what we voted for. And so I said, hey, you know, we are scared. I am scared, too. For example, I was going to call you a douchebag, but I'm not, even though you are. And I looked at the thumbs up, and I'm waiting for the retribution. I'm waiting for something, you know, to come my way, and it never did. So I asked my social media guy who had a minor in political science, I said, why do you think he didn't come after me? He said, mick, Stephen Chung is a wrestling historian. I think he got the president's ear and said, don't fire back, because it will cost you votes. And I said, really? And he goes, that's what he said. He echoed what you said. I guess you echoed what he said earlier, although you've felt it for a long time.
- [45:54]
Paul Rykoff
I think that's really important. Mick, I think. I think you are kryptonite to him. And you know Jesse, the same thing. Like, he doesn't want to fuck with Jesse. He doesn't want to fuck with you. He doesn't want to fuck with the Rock. He doesn't want to fuck with Stone Cold. He doesn't want to fuck with any of you guys because he knows that you can beat him at his own game. And you can do the mic. You can grab the mic, you can cut a promo, you can talk to his bass, and you're real, and that's what the public knows. So you can reveal him in a way that is so powerful. Jesse had this great idea where he said, if Klobuchar wins as governor, she decides who her replacement is and she should name him. So he could go down there and just put Trump on the ropes for two years.
- [46:32]
Mick Foley
Oh, yeah.
- [46:33]
Paul Rykoff
I think if we can get you down there, too, and we got a one, two punch of the two of you just tying him up, you know, politically and rhetorically. And really important, Mick grabbing the mic, right? Like, we need this alternative narrative and you guys have the ability to grab the mic. Your video that, folks, it'll be linked in the show notes. If you haven't seen it, it's got millions of views. I do have to let you at some point go to the horror comic book thing. So let me. Let me go to something good. We for folks that Are new here.
- [47:00]
Mick Foley
Welcome. Something good.
- [47:01]
Paul Rykoff
Hold on. For folks that are new here, welcome. Be sure to check us on YouTube if you're not already hit. Subscribe everywhere. I hope Mick will come back, because I'm so honored to have him as a friend. But I also think this is such an important moment, and every. Every episode, we do something good, and I'm gonna. I usually talk about things that inspire you, things that give you hope, and I'm just gonna say it, Mick, something good is you, man. You are something good in the way that you do things, the way you treat people, your thoughtfulness, your rigor, your patriotism, man. Like, you are the great part of what this country is all about. And I love you. They call you dude love, right? I mean, you spread love to so many people. You're so kind and generous and thoughtful, and a lot of it goes unnoticed. A lot of it is little things for people who reach out to you. But I think it's really important for folks to know how good Mick Foley is and how it's an example for our children and an example for all of us. So, you know, on a time when there's a lot of bad happening, we got to look for the helpers. You are a true helper, my friend. And you are something good. Now I'm gonna pass the mic back over to you. What do you got, Micked? It's something good.
- [48:06]
Mick Foley
Let me think about that. Let me think about that. Hold on. Hold on a moment. I know I saw some inspiring things. Oh, man. So this is a shame when I can't think of something good.
- [48:18]
Paul Rykoff
We were talking about the World Baseball Classic, and you said you had a story about.
- [48:23]
Mick Foley
Yeah, okay. I do.
- [48:24]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, yeah, you had a story about Miguel Cabrera. Is that who it was?
- [48:27]
Mick Foley
Tejada. Oh, it's a gaveaway that we gave away the ending. Okay.
- [48:30]
Paul Rykoff
Oh, we can put it in another episode.
- [48:33]
Mick Foley
No, no, no. This is. This is a fun story because I do love baseball. I'm a playoff fan. You know, Like, I. I attended. I. I mean, I watched the Dodgers play the Angels. I was at the stadium when Ohtani hit into a triple play, which I'd never. Yeah, I'd never seen in live time, only in highlights. And then I was watching some of the. You know, the. The AL and NL Championship Series and saw a couple of those incredible games. Like, I was on a plane that night. That opened, Tony not only hit three towering home runs, but also pitched nine shutout innings. And when he hit the third home run was so ridiculously long. I just burst out laughing on the plane, and people were staring at me. So I'd never seen anything like it. So I love the game of baseball. Ibrahim wrote a baseball novel called Scooter that was published in 2005. And you have to really know your baseball if you're going to write fiction about it. Otherwise the diehards will tear you apart. And I think the only mistake I had was that the Mets came to bat at the top of the 16th inning at Shea Stadium. And then it was. I was like, oh, yeah, of course, the home team comes up to bat later, later in the, you know, second part of the inning. But I went to the World Baseball Classic. I can't remember, was in Orlando. It may have been 2008 somewhere around there. It was just such a festive atmosphere. Like, I never, you know, baseball fans, by and large, are pretty stoic. You know, like, you go to a minor league game, it's a lot looser, you know, but it's, you know, it's pretty set in its ways. And there was just a feeling of jubilation. And I happened to have, you know, I'd like to say I made a great catch on a ground ball. I think it bounced three times. And I didn't knock any kids out of the way to get it either. But I had this, this. This ball from the Baseball Classic. And then I see this little boy with his grandmother, and I think to themselves, myself, this ball is going to mean more to that small child than it would to me. And I said, you know, present that. You know, I'm very limited on the espanol. I speak Santa Spanish. Como te potaste este ano means, have you been behaving this year? And then it's a pause. It's not about what, you know, it's what about what people think, you know, and just like in wrestling, I could not physically do so many of the moves right. You have to depend on, lean on the things you can do and make sure you do them well. And so when they say bien, bien, I go, muy bien. You know, I stand at muy bien. And then I got, que vas e cade este navidad? What would you like for Christmas? So I'm very limited in my espanol, but I was like, presente. And the little boy reached out and the grandmother nodded her head, and I gave the boy the thing, and he looked at, and he smiled and in gracias. And then the guy next to me goes, you know, that's Miguel Tejada's son. And I went, oh, he's probably already got some baseball, you know, perennial all star player for the Orioles. Yeah. So that's my world baseball story. Attempting to do the right thing. And it was still the right thing in principle, but that little fella had plenty of baseballs. I'm sure I could tell you one more story, being a Yankees fan.
- [51:48]
Paul Rykoff
Okay, this isn't necessarily from telling a story. Go ahead.
- [51:52]
Mick Foley
All right, so back in my day, Paul, in my day, we had two baseballs, right? You lost one in the woods, brother. You went out there and searched until you found it. And I will say, cases of poison ivy are way down from when I was a kid. These kids just don't go out there and do that stuff anymore. Right. And you jump forward 30 years or so, and now you can buy 12 baseballs for. For $10 or something like that. Just cheap coated vinyl. And so you hit in the woods and you don't. All right, here's another one. You know, I pitched to my son Dewey, so many times, you know, did the batting practice, and when he made a sliding catch to win their championship, I was so proud. Although he did come in as a pitcher and was proceeding to arc. He was like an EFIS pitch every time. And somehow guys were swinging or missing or grounding out or popping, flying. And then, you know, when he. He ended up winning the game with either the catch, he was pitching and he made. I don't, don't quote me. It was a long time ago. And when I told him that, Dewey, you. You were throwing very hard, and he was. And I'm not that parent who's yelling, you know, but the audience was laughing. You know, these were high, arcing pitches. No, Dad, I was nipping the corners like Tom Glavin. I was like, no, no, you weren't nipping the corners, buddy. And then I. I left him alone in the Christmas room to watch the video, and he came out and he was like. He admitted that perhaps he had been. He had not quite been nipping the corners as he saw. But anyway, with that being said about the baseballs and the lack of fortitude in pursuing them, I was nonetheless, like, surprised when I rode up and I see a baseball rode up in my driveway, and I see a baseball, it's like three feet off the driveway in the grass, not even in the woods. And I thought to myself, well, that's a little lazy. And I pick it up, and not only was it lazy, but there in faded ballpoint pen, all the best, George Steinbrenner. And I go in the house and I said, you played with my Steinbrenner, Paul. He blamed it on the three year old Mickey, who was three at the time. No, I didn't do it. Must have been Mickey. One more quick story, all right? One more quick baseball story and then we're out. We're leaving on a high note, right? Okay. Leaving on a fun note is Reggie Jackson was at one of these sports card conventions and he was on the air, he was on the flight with me and his agent said, hey, would you be willing to sign a dozen balls? We'll give you a dozen of Reggies. And I said, yeah, that sounds great, Paul. You can, you can, you know, tout my achievements all you want. My baseball is not going for what Reggie Jackson's does. Especially when he signs it, you know, Mr. October, you know, and I've got good handwriting, but I can't write on that ball. And all this, I don't know how to turn it. It's like a lesson. You have to take lessons in doing that stuff, I think, or just get the reps in. And so I had these, these 12 Reggie Jackson balls. And when my, you know, a couple of my friends would come over who were huge baseball fans, they'd leave with a Reggie Jackson ball. A couple months later, Dewey's having like his 10th birthday party. And I know the party favors I bought, you know, they weigh in, you know, about a dollar tops. And I'm looking at the goodie bags and I'm looking like they're sagging a little more than I should. Like, Dewey, can I take a look at one of these goodie bags? And he got my Reggie Jackson baseball. He's giving away the kids and he's like, well, you gave them away to John and Brianny. I was like, john and Brianny's a huge baseball fan. Like it's going to go up in a place of prominence on his shelf. So that's a little Foley family time for you. Tying in a little Yankees nostalgia.
- [55:54]
Paul Rykoff
Bravo. I mean, that is amazing. I think you need to write a book of Dewey stories. I mean, this is. I mean, you see the Yankees sign behind me back there? We got sign balls from Ben Rice. Big shout out to Ben Rice for signing for my kids at spring training. And look, man, you bring so much happiness and so much. I want to go to a Dewey birthday party and get a gift bag at your house because that is an epic, epic story. Look, man, you are such an American treasure. You're such a voice of Conscience. You're such a good person. I'm so grateful that you came here to talk about everything happening and to share the stories. I hope you'll come back again, if you're able, when you're on the road or wherever you are. But, folks, there's no finer person, no finer father, role model, patriot and legend than the great and powerful Mick Foley. My friend. I'm honored to call you a friend. I'm so grateful that you spent so much time. Tell Elvira we said hello.
- [56:53]
Mick Foley
I sure will. Sure. Well, thanks, Paul. I had a lot of fun, and I hope I. You know, hope. I hope what I said makes people think a little bit.
- [57:05]
Paul Rykoff
It will, my friend. It'll help us stay vigilant and have a nice day.
- [57:09]
Mick Foley
Have a nice day. Thank you. And when you wait Time to grow
- [57:20]
Paul Rykoff
and it's not cool to believe in school but if I can say one thing I've seen the children of the revolution and the good trouble they can bring he says the red and blue are dead and independent is an attitude an island in the sea of rhetoric and not to rally Go, he tells me the left and right Our dreams for those without a clue and when you wait it's time to grow Powered by righteous Media.
- [57:47]
Mick Foley
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- [58:17]
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- [58:48]
Mick Foley
Reggie, I just sold my car online.
- [58:50]
Paul Rykoff
Let's go, Grandpa. Wait, you did?
- [58:52]
Mick Foley
Yep. On Carvana. Just put in the license plate, answered a few questions, got an offer in minutes. Easier than setting up that new digital picture frame.
- [59:00]
Paul Rykoff
You don't say.
- [59:01]
Mick Foley
Yeah, they're even picking it up tomorrow. Talk about fast.
- [59:04]
Paul Rykoff
Wow. Way to go. So, about that picture frame.
- [59:08]
Mick Foley
Ah, forget about it. Until Carvana makes one, I'm not interested.
- [59:12]
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- [59:47]
Paul Rykoff
This is Mike Volo of Lexicon Valley,
- [59:50]
Mick Foley
and I'm Bob Garfield. Are you one of those people who sometimes uses words?
- [59:55]
Paul Rykoff
Do you communicate or acquire information with, you know, language? Hey, us too.
- [60:02]
Mick Foley
So join us on Lexicon Valley to chew over the history, culture and many mysteries of English, plus some lice cracks.
- [60:11]
Paul Rykoff
Find us on one of those apps where people listen to podcasts.