← Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Trump at Davos Insults Greenland, Denmark, NATO, Ukraine w/ Eddie Glaude.
00:55:33
Trump’s “America First” has become Trump against the world—and the stakes for democracy, justice, and basic decency have never been higher. In Episode 420 of Independent Americans, Paul Rieckhoff sits down with Princeton scholar, author, and public intellectual Eddie Glaude to break down white nationalism and white Christian nationalism in Trump’s America, what they’re doing to our institutions, and what it will really take for courageous everyday people to fight back. Glaude explains why he believes white nationalists have effectively captured the executive branch, how “great replacement” panic is driving ICE and immigration policy, and why liberty in America has been twisted into a synonym for selfishness and greed.
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I've never in my lifetime thought I would say that white nationalists had captured the executive branch and what that means right for the nation. I've never thought I would be in a position where I would have to say that out loud to the nation.
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Welcome to Independent Americans. Welcome to episode 424. 20 people. Smoke them if you got them. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. We're going to need a little warmth today. It is Wednesday, January 21st. One year ago, Trump was sworn in for a second term. And what a year it's been. I am coming to you from a bitterly cold New York City, usa. It is cold. Damn cold. Dangerously cold, painfully cold. Felt like 11 or 12 Fahrenheit this morning, but still not as cold as Ukraine where it's going down to 6 degrees Fahrenheit. But they still fight on and we will too, because we must. And especially on this hump day, we're going to help you get over the hump with the five eyes. We bring you in every show. Independence, integrity, information, inspiration and, and impact. And our guest coming up is going to bring that the great Eddie Glaud is here. One of my favorite people in America. He's a true public intellectual. You may know him from Morning Joe. We've been together on Deadline, White House and many other shows on Ms. Now, he's one of the nation's preeminent scholars. He's an educator, author, political commentator. He's got a great substack. He's got an incredible book called We Are the Leaders we have Been Looking for and a new book called America USA coming up. But he's just one of my favorite people to talk to. We often talk off screen and have great conversations and I'm excited he's on the show today to go further. But first, there is a ton happening today. It is dangerously cold in New York City and in America and Snowpocalypse 2026 is coming. A huge winter storm is forecast for the Weekend could hit much of the country. We might get two feet of snow here in New York and it will disrupt most of the country. And just as president, mayhem continues to send chills all across the world. He continues to fight with just about everyone except Putin and tries to take over the Western hemisphere front and center. Today he spoke at Davos. He attacked Greenland, he attacked Denmark, he attacked NATO. Really another episode of Trump at his worst as he continues to stoke fear across the globe and I think disgrace America. Deeply insulting comments, dangerous, radical, un American. And I just want to reiterate, especially for our international listeners and viewers, Trump does not speak for an overwhelming majority of us here in the US and he especially doesn't speak for most American veterans. The only thing America should ask for after defending freedom and our allies is a place to bury our dead. People of Denmark and Greenland especially, you need to know that an overwhelming majority of Americans, and especially American vets, understand and appreciate the your friendship, your support, your sovereignty, and especially your sacrifices. Those of us who've been in the military have trained and fought by your side. And we know your integrity, your courage, your dependability as a valuable ally. We talked about it yesterday also with veteran Ty Pickens. Go back and check that out. But Trump is on a war path and stocks hit a new low yesterday. The biggest drop we've seen in months as the Dow dropped over 500 points on Tuesday. It's its biggest decline since the fall, which is notable because it seems like when the stock market gets hit, it actually might be the one thing that moves Trump. Meanwhile, in Copenhagen, Danes feel betrayed. They feel bewildered by Trump. There's a lot of reporting in the New York Times and other places. They talked to a Danish soldier who served with Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. That said, Trump's vow to get Greenland is a punch in the gut, as Henrik Baker the people of Denmark and Greenland know the better sides of America. They've fought and died with us in Afghanistan and Iraq and especially. And it's important that they hear from people other than Trump, including Eddie, who'll be coming up. But Putin is loving this. As I said yesterday, he must be sending beautiful little golden thank you notes to Trump every night as he's all gas and no brakes and nothing is slowing him down. Stocks did recover so far today because Trump said he's ruling out military action on Greenland. Dow is up 400 points when I recorded this, but no one can trust anything Trump says. Yesterday he also delivered a crazy rambling monologue in the White House where he talked about The Hell's Angels and all kinds of other stuff. Polls continue to show that he is unpopular, that his actions are unpopular. But I want to continue to reiterate. He doesn't care about the polls. He's all gas, no brakes. He's going as far and as fast as he can, and nothing seems to be stopping him. And the same is true for ICE every day. More disturbing news, more disturbing videos. Now we find out that ICE agents have pointed their weapon at a Minnesota police officer who is an American citizen. She tried to film the encounter and they punched her phone out of her hand. So now ICE agents are also targeting people of color who are, who are law enforcement agents. Their attacks know no bounds, and that includes veterans. Local news in Minnesota talks about an example of, of a veteran who is a Purple Heart recipient who was detained by ice. He's a combat wounded vet, and he commented that if someone who has honorably served the country is treated this way by the federal government, these ICE agents can treat anyone the same way. It's shameful and un American. He was. Vermi is the guy's name. He was standing on a sidewalk observing agents arresting two people when officers began pushing bystanders back. And they handcuffed him. They handcuffed him. They put him on the ground. They put him in a jail cell. He asked for a phone call and he couldn't get one. And I think it just underscores how ICE continues to run rampant across everything. If they can do it to Renee Goode and they could do it to Chongli, Scott Tao, who we talked about yesterday, and they can do it to combat vet William Burmey, they can do it to anyone and they can do it to you. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention. ICE needs to be put on trial and needs to be shut down. Trump, meanwhile, continues to try to attack the free press. We've talked about the Stars and Stripes and the Pentagon press corps and now Don Lemon. In Venezuela yesterday, the first shipments of oil went out to a company that is connected to a Trump mega donor. Trump has also said at Davos today that they are helping Venezuela. I don't think too many people at the World Economic Forum believe Trump when he says he wants to help folks. Most folks don't want that kind of help, but he continues to send shock waves and we will track on Venezuela and more. A veterans issue that I want to elevate. There's breaking news that the Trump administration admitted that DOGE staffers access Social Security data. This was a concern all along that they could access people's private information. I want to just underscore that if they had access to this, if they could get Social Security data, they could also likely get medical record data at the va. I haven't heard any reporting on that, but I encourage folks to take a look because it's bad, bad, bad. And as a reminder, when Doge laid people off, one third of everybody that they laid off, one was a veteran. In other parts of the world, a lot of the protests in Iran seem to have been crushed. We are continuing to get reports out of Iran. We continue to stand with the brave protesters there. And Iran's senior diplomat has issued a direct threat to the US Saying that they will be firing back with everything we have if we come under renewed attack. I think that the diplomat and the regime have smartly made Trump the focus. They are trying to unite the country against Trump and detract from their own brutality. But we will stay on it. And speaking of brutality in Ukraine, it's day 1431 of Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine. Trump demanded today at Davos immediate negotiations to acquire Greenland, of course, and says the war in Ukraine is Europe's problem. That's what he said today. We know it is not. We know it is the front line of freedom. And it seems to be that Putin is the one person that Trump is afraid to take on. Meanwhile, severe cold continues to damage Ukraine and the Ukrainian people, but also want to underscore military component. Severe frost could enable mechanized Russian assaults in oblast and other places. The Kyiv Independent continues to have good reporting here. But if the ground is frozen due to frost and cold, mechanized units, heavy units, armored units, can move across what is normally very soft ground. So this could be an advantage to some of the Russian units that want to advance. Meanwhile, Mayor Klitschko in kyiv has said 600,000 people have left the capital in January following the Russians attacks and the power outages. As a reminder, Kyiv is home to over 3 million people. We will continue to stand with the people of Ukraine. Go back and check out my episode with Tim Mak from a few weeks ago from inside of Kyiv. And we will continue to stand with Ukraine. All right. In politics, there's a lot of weird shit going on that sometimes falls below the radar. But Trump's attacks on Senator Kelly, who's been a guest on this show, continue and Kelly continues to punch back. Yesterday, nearly 40 retired generals and admirals filed an amicus brief backing Senator Kelly's lawsuit against the DoD. This includes former DNI, Dennis Blair, former CIA director Mike Hayden and others. This is good to see. I think more flag grades should step up and do the same. This is not a partisan issue and this is not a time to be silent. As we've seen, more and more people who've been removed from the government, especially military folks, are stepping up to lead in other ways. And a Navy admiral who was removed from her position last year is now running for Congress. Nancy LaCour is a retired three star admiral who is now running in South Carolina. These are the patriotic purged. I think they're a powerful wave. Leaders from the military, FBI, justice all across the government and as I said, one third of them are vets. Notable here. When the admiral launched her race for the House in South Carolina for Nancy Mesa's seat, she didn't mention her party. It's almost impossible to find it on her website. But she's a Democrat. I think that's reflective of how toxic the Democratic brand is in red states especially. I think she'd have a much better chance if she ran as an independent, especially in South Carolina. Here in New York, Mayor Mamdani and Senator Sanders are continuing to join New York City nurses who are on picket lines here across the city in their ninth day of striking. Mamdani's brought attention there. Sanders has done the same. I just want to send my support to the striking nurses who are organizing all across the city. My mother's a nurse, my sister in law is a nurse. Nurses all across my family and nurses have met the point of need across this country for so many years and especially through Covid we will continue to follow this issue. But I want to stand with the nurses and let them know I don't think this is a partisan issue. Although Sanders and Mamdani are partisan guys. I think all Americans who care about their health and care about our children and care about what's right should stand with these nurses. Also in political news, JD Vance has announced that his wife Usha is expecting their fourth child. She is pregnant. They are going to have a baby in the in the summer. This is noteworthy because they call themselves the most pro family administration in history. I will talk to Eddie about that. But it's also exceptional because very few high office holders have actually had children while in office. There's one documented exception, President Grover Cleveland, whose wife Francis gave birth to their second child in 1893 during his second term in office. Independent candidates are out there as well. I want to continue to focus on them. They are not just moving the needle they are the needle. We talked to Ty Pickens yesterday. Check it out if you haven't already. We talked about Tim Walsh and whether or not Minnesota is ripe for the next Jesse Ventura with Tim Walsh being out. We talked about Chris Platt and Lindsey Vaughn as potential independent alternatives. There's other Another new independent candidate that announced yesterday an independent firefighter running for Congress in Wisconsin. Mike Thoreau is running in Wisconsin. 6. He says because when there's a fire, you don't pick who to save. You show up and do the work. I hope he'll join us on this show soon and we can chop it up. And maybe we can get our friend Rob Serra, who's also a firefighter, to run for Congress as well. All right. Finally, in sports, the NBA continues to be fun. Luka Doncic recorded a 38 point triple double win last night as the Lakers came back and beat the Nuggets. My Knicks are home against the lowly Nets tonight, which we need. In football news, Buffalo quarterback Josh Allen might need to get foot surgery, which is more bad news for Buffalo. And the Indiana Football Victory Tour continues, led by their spectacular role model of a quarterback, Fernando Mendoza and Coach Signetti. Important to note, if you didn't know this, Trump was at the game this weekend in Miami. He's at all the big games. He continues to try to manipulate and manage his image around sports and culture. We know there's a UFC match coming at the White House. He talked recently about how he wants no other games to be able to play during the four hours of the Army Navy game. I'm sure he will be at the super bowl, but he got a mix of boos and cheers, which I think is reflective of Florida and Indiana, who made up a lot of the crowd. But have no doubt he is going to continue to focus on sports. He will be at the super bowl, which in two weeks is not in Miami, but in San Francisco, a place where he might not hit as many cheers. Look, folks, the snowpocalypse is coming and Trump's own version of snowpocalypse continues. But we're going to help you hunker down and survive it. We're going to be like the warm, hot cocoa for your soul and our democracy to help you get through this hump day. Because now, especially in the dog days of winter, it is definitely a time to stay vigilant. All right, folks, he's been patiently waiting. He is one of my favorite human beings, a person who has been a mentor for me, a great voice of clarity and thoughtfulness and calm and reason. And I said, he's a true public intellectual. I think that is a rare title that he deserves. He's one of the most respected scholars. He's an educator. He's a father. He is the James McDonald Distinguished University professor at Princeton. And his recent book is called We Are the Leaders of We've Been Looking For. And he is one of the leaders that I think we need to look for and we need to hear from the great and powerful. Eddie GL is finally here on Independent Americans. Welcome, sir.
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Hey, man, it's so good to be with you. What. What an opening commentary, Paul. I mean, wow, that was amazing.
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I got to take a breath afterward always. But that's the spectrum of the snowstorm that's coming at us right now, right?
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B
Absolutely. We are in the midst of a storm. And. And, you know, I come from a place where we experience hurricanes. You know, you got the front end of the storm, you got the calm, and then you have the tail. We're still in the midst of it all, Doc.
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C
We really are. And I want to dig into that and unpack it with you. You're such a great alternative of a leadership voice to what we see coming out of the White House because of your integrity and your honor and your tone, which I've told you so many times is so important. But before we get into all of that, let me ask you a question. I ask all my guests. Where are you, my friend, and how are you?
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Well, I'm just a little south of you, preparing for this snow, this snow that's coming. And so, you know, I'm in Jersey trying to. Trying to hold myself together. You know, one of the difficulties about our current moment is that life still happens in the midst of all of the stuff that's coming at you. You still have to pay your bills. You still have to tend to your loved ones. You still have to do all the things that the day to day things, the day to day aspects of life demand and require. And you have to do it with this extra added sense of anxiety and oftentimes a sense of depression. You know, you said to me that you had to work out, otherwise you would be screaming. You know, I did my workout early this morning, and I got to do my tai chi a little later on to calm my spirit. So I'm just trying to beat back depression, man, because, you know, I could feel the country coming apart at the seams, and I don't. And, you know, every time, every now and then, I find myself being overrun.
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Done.
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And concern but I'm just happy to be in conversation with you, Doc.
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I'm so thankful that you share that. You know, powerful vulnerability I think is really important in leadership. Let me ask you if I can to build on that. You know, you like, like me and others. You know you have to stand up in front of people every day. You know, you know about what's going on in the world and you know a lot of things that other people don't know that might not be in the news. You get personal messages every day from students, from allies. I know you do because you're so trusted and respected. How do you do it? How do, how do you get up in front of your students and how do you get up on Morning Joe and do these things and know all that and get your together and, and convey calm and convey thoughtfulness and lift people up? I think every time you're on, Nicole and I always have this note where we kind of nod and I think I say I'm so glad Eddie's here for this moment. And that's been true of so many moments. But as a leader, how have you learned to be able to do that?
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You know, I don't know, Paul, to be honest with you. I think part of, you know, I love that language of powerful vulnerability. You know, I think part of what I try to do is to actually cultivate the habits of listening, to be present and to offer my thoughts. Not in terms of the kind of brand, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, engage because I'm Eddie Glode, the public intellectual. I'm actually trying to think with others in public about the issues that matter to us. And you know, sometimes, you know, that requires a lot of self control because I just want to scream because I'm constantly being asked to interpret what the hell is going on? And, you know, there are times and there are days where I just want to just say I don't know. And I think sitting in that humility, honestly, you know, and being genuine. And I'll say this. You know, there's the theologian Howard Thurman. He uses this phrase. He says, the sound of the genuine. And I think what Americans hunger for is the sound of the genuine. And every time I'm on television, every time I'm asked by my students, every time I'm asked by someone who stops me in an airport, what I want to do is to be authentic and genuine in my engagement with them and with the questions that they're asking me. And by God, we're running deficits in the country at the national level of the sound of the genuine and the authentic.
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C
It seems to me that is so good. I mean, you are the sound of the genuine. And I do think it's contagious. And I think a lot about. When I'm in discussion with people, especially in media or in leadership, I think about who do I want my kids to hear, who do I want my kids to be like? And we try to celebrate and amplify as many leaders as we can. But I often come back to you. I often come back to you because your thoughtfulness, your pace, you're not just trying to score points and get clicks like so many people on tv. I think you're really trying to help people understand. And you're candid about how you're moving through those moments as well. Have you ever been in things like this before? Does this feel like the most intense, the worst you've ever had? Or is there something earlier in your life or another point in your work where it paralleled this kind of intensity?
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No, you know, I. You know, I've been. You know, I'm a student of American history, and I've been trying to figure out what. What are the parallels? You know, there's something familiar about it, and then there's something wholly unprecedented about it. You know, there's a sense in which I'm always reaching back to the period of the collapse of Reconstruction as. As evidence of the country's refusal to really confront itself. But that's not sufficient, you know. You know, Paul, I. I've said it before. I've never in my lifetime thought I would say that white nationalists had captured the executive branch and what that means for the nation. I've never thought I would be in a position where I would have to say that out loud. To the nation. So, no, I've never been. I've never found myself in my 50 plus years of being on the planet having to have this level of conversation. Now, you and I have talked in the green rooms about raising our children. I've had to have the talk with my son. I've had to equip him to deal with the world, to deal with the country that is the United States. But, you know, it feels in my gut that we're about to lose this thing. And I've been trying to find the urgency, the moral urgency. We could talk about politics all day, but the moral urgency of now. So I've never found myself in this moment before with all my reading, all the things I've been doing, all the time I've been running my mouth. I've never found myself called to have to be this kind of clarion voice, this kind of voice in this moment.
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Well, you are meeting the moment and you continue to meet it over and over again. Let me, I want to get to a couple things coming up later in the show. I want to dig deeper on MLK Day and what this MLK Day in this week in Black History Month has been like, given some of what we talk about. But I want to come back to something you just said and ask you to do some teaching if you can. People hear white nationalists and you say, you know, white nationalists in the White House. There's so, in my view, there's so many reflections of this or just outward screams of this. And somebody posted a photo yesterday of the latest White House intern class, which, you know, if you objectively look, first thing you see is it's all white people. It looks just, oh, maybe there's one or two exceptions, but overwhelmingly, consistently, that is that is an image that they are okay with and even parallel Nazi images, right? Like with, with Bavino and Ice wearing J. They don't even care if it looks like something that could be Nazis, Elon Musk and his language. But let me ask you if you can please to teach us. When you say white nationalists, white what.
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Does that mean for me, Paul it means that you have a group of folk who believe that the United States at its core is a white republic, that citizenship, that our way of being, that blood and soil define the meaning and the substance of this place, not the creed, not the idea.
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Right?
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Those are those come secondary. What's at the heart of it is a notion that this country belongs to and must be run by white men and women. And all others are secondary in terms of Their consideration. What follows from that, of course, is the distribution of goods and benefits, benefits and burdens. What follows from that is notions of obligation, who should be valued more. Right? So one way to think about this at a certain level is to look at the history of US Immigration policy. Who was considered citizens? How does the notion of whiteness inform the very notion of citizenship? How do we think of, say, the immigration regime of the 1920s? And how was the Immigration act of 1965? What does it disrupt? And how are we thinking about immigration today? As a longing for the regime of 19, of the 1920s. And we know that the immigration policy of the 1920s was basically written by the Klan. And so for me, white nationalism reflects the divided soul of the nation that, on the one hand, we imagine ourselves as a beacon of freedom, and on the other hand, we imagine ourselves as a white republic now. And that means that this. That sentiment captures the operations of the state cap, and all values flow from that capture. Now, why would I say it more explicitly today? Before the campaign, I mean, before the election, before Trump and his second term, we were all awash in a debate about great replacement theory. There was this animating concern coming out of the mouths of Tucker Carlson, out of the mouth of Stephen Miller, out of the mouth of Steve Bannon and and a whole host of others that the demographic shifts in the country reflected an existential crisis for the Western world. We saw it in the. In the manifestos at the Tree of Life in Pittsburgh, that murder. We saw it in El Paso. Right. We saw it in Buffalo. Right? This worry, this generalized concern that the demographics in the country, the browning of America, threatened the very foundations of what it meant to be America, what it meant to be Western Western civilization as such. I believe that the expansion of Paul, and I'm open to debate here, I believe that the expansion of ICE is principally dictated by a policy response to the worry and fear and panic around Great Replacement. ISIS task is to make America white again. And they're doing it without any concern for polling data, without any concern for constitutional constraint or restraint, because for them, it's an existential issue. It's an existential crisis. So we have to begin to describe what's happening for what it is. And of course, we could talk about other things that the administration is doing or has done that reflects its ideological commitment to white nationalism.
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C
Can I ask you to pull apart a parallel component of this Christianity? They are unapologetic that it's white Christian nationalism. And I think the manifestation of that is the. What I who I would call the acting secretary of Culture War, Pete Hegseth. He is unapologetic. He is now praying with troops, right. In Christian prayers. He is amplifying and empowering the chaplains who really kind of have become less religious over the last few decades. Right. You don't hear him talking about anything other than Christianity. There's definitely no respect paid to atheists or people who are agnostic. But there is an overt indoctrination, I would argue, of Christian ideology. Most specifically coming from Hegseth. We've got the VA secretary, Doug Collins, who's a pastor as well. He's, I think, a Baptist minister. So you've got this thunder and lightning, and I'm using those terms intentionally, of culture warriors who are leading this cultural transformation. But can you talk specifically about the Christian part of specifically what Hegseth seems to be leading on? Because that's where it is. It is becoming policy, right. It is becoming budget. It is becoming, obviously, optics, but it's going much deeper than that. But every time they stand up, and I mean, I think it's important for white people especially to say this, almost every time they stand up, it's all white guys, and they don't even give a shit. They don't care if it looks like all white guys.
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B
Absolutely.
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C
Which I think in and of itself is so egregious. But let me throw the mic back to you and ask you, sir, to please.
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B
Well, I think that that's really. That's really an important point. And I started with white nationalism because I wanted to include Stephen Miller, right? And because he's not self identified as a Christian nationalist. Right, but he's a white nationalist. But it's important because, as I said about white nationalism, that there is the definition of the country as, by. As a white republic. Those who are white Christian nationalists believe that it is a white Christian republic, that they don't believe that the freedom of religion, right, actually opens up space for a kind of pluralistic expression of religious commitments, whether you're Jewish, a Buddhist or Muslim. No, the nation is fundamentally, at its core, right, a Christian nation. Now, mind you, to make that claim is also to understand what. What Frederick Douglass said in his slave narratives in his first one in 1845, right. He said that, and I'm paraphrasing here, that the slave auction block was right next to the church steeple, that these two things, right, are intimately related. Howard Thurman, going back to that theologian I mentioned earlier about the sound of the genuine. He said something about the black Christian slave. He said the slave dared to redeem the religion profaned in his midst because they knew that the adjective was white was over determining the noun Christian, right? It was over determining the noun Christian. And so when we listen at Pete Hexith, Russell Vaught at omb, he's a part of these folk, the Seven Mountains folk, right? He's part of this theology that's really driving in so many ways, policy, a theology that actually, and this is something we can't talk about in depth, but is driving the US Policy vis a vis Israel, as some folk are trying to push the apocalypse so they can bring about the End of Days in interesting sorts of ways. But the idea is that fundamentally America is not a creedal nation. If it is a creedal nation for these folk, it's bound up with their commitment to a certain interpretation of the Christian gospel. And it is white. It is white through and through. Now that's in combination with greed, grift and selfishness. I'm not reducing it to that. I'm saying as we talk about Trump's greed and corruption, as we talk about tariffs and affordability in the economy, as we talk about all of those things, we also need to talk about the ideology of white supremacy and white nationalism and white Christian nationalism and how it's driving the executive branch and its capture of American democracy.
- [31:27]
E
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D
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- [32:27]
C
In this moment, Eddie, you are already taking us to school. And that's why I love talking to you, because I learned so much when I talk to you and you help me understand what's happening before my eyes. Let Me pivot into what? If I have to pick a top topic, let me pivot into what I think, especially for my conversation with you right now, is our top topic. It's Trump against the world. He is Augustus Gloop from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. He just wants to keep eating everything right. And I've said this.
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B
He.
- [33:06]
C
He is. He's grew from despicable me. He wants the moon. He wants to put it in his pocket. He wants it all. And I think that is driving him more than anything else. It's power, it's greed. He wants Venezuela. He wants Greenland. He does want it all right? He wants all the money, wants all the riches. He wants to put his name on everything and to go as far and as big and as fast as he can before he dies. It is increasingly the world against Trump, and by default, the world against America. How do we. How do we battle him? How do we counter him? For those of us who aren't public intellectuals or folks who are going about their everyday life, some of them are tuning out. Some of them are picking their spots and protesting. But as we think about how Trump is becoming the reflection of all of us and the narrative to the world about what it means to be American, how do we counter that?
- [34:00]
B
You know, I've been trying to figure it out, man, and, you know, I don't know if I have an answer. You know, every day I'm trying to reach for something else with my pen. In some ways, I figure my calling is as a writer and as a thinker is to try to offer the nation language, to think about itself differently so that we can be together differently. And we're in this moment where we've elected this man twice. And so there's the. There's the American tendency for melodrama, right? If only we can get rid of this evil guy, we will be all right. When the world is saying, no, it's not about him. It's about the people who put him in office twice. What is it about us that has generated this outcome? And so we have to begin to interrogate the deep divisions that define our being together. Now, mind you, there's about 30% of the folk who are hardcore in. In his corner, and then there's some folk who agree with the policy, but they don't agree with how he's moving. And then there are the rest of us, and we're much more. We're a larger number than they are. And so the question that you asked me is, what can we do? Well, we first we have to tell the truth about what we're seeing. We can't just sit back in disbelief or in some ways this is purposeful. I just talked to the AFL CIO not too long ago in the New Jersey Education association and people are working harder and longer just to keep, to make ends meet. And so they don't have time to be thinking about all of this stuff. And that's in some ways a deliberate outcome of the all out assault on American workers to keep our noses barely above water.
- [35:47]
C
Right.
- [35:48]
B
So that you don't have time to engage in these all out kind of organizing and advocating on behalf of you and your local union or your local community and the like because you're too busy trying to make sure your children have a future that is better than your own. And now we can't even agree if that's going to happen. Right. So there's that part of it, the other part of it. And what I'm trying to say here, Paul, is that this isn't by accident on a certain level that the American public is in the position that it's in. We have had for at least 50 years the shredding of any sense of a public good. We talked about greed and selfishness. Liberty has become a synonym for selfishness in this country. And so all of this is happening at once. What can we do? Is the question. First answer is I'm not sure. The second answer, we have to respond at scale to the crisis. Maybe there's a general strike, maybe there are rolling civic power outages, something happening in the Northeast today, something happening in the Midwest tomorrow, something. But the one thing I do know, and I know you're going to like this, I hope you'll like this, is that it's not going. We're not going to be saved by these freaking politicians. We're going to be saved by us. And when I think about the power of everyday ordinary Americans, the majority that haven't bought into the nonsense that we're experiencing, we're going to have to figure out how to mobilize and take back our country. Because these folk, it almost feels like, I know I'm rambling here, but it almost feels like, Paul, that they're a group of Americans who have made the decision that we've lost it, that the country is not salvageable and that they're just going to rob the coffers, rob us blind. They're just going to take care of themselves, fill their pockets and move on, that the experiment is over and we're going to have to refuse that conclusion with all of our heart and soul. The short answer is I don't know. But we damn sure got to speak the truth and step up. Remember, courage, the virtue of courage is the foundational virtue for all other virtues. So we're going to have to be courageous. Even if we don't know what to do. We're going to have to exhibit the virtue of courage in this moment.
- [38:20]
C
I love that man. That is so important, because being brave, you know, is moving forward even when you're scared. And I tell my sons this all the time. Right? And also means not knowing.
- [38:30]
B
Right?
- [38:31]
C
Right. But knowing the azimuth, as we say in the military. Right. You gotta know the general direction, the true north. And you know what right is. You know what truth is. You know what your eyes can see. And I think there is this kind of gathering of the storm across this country where folks know it's wrong. And they also see things getting ripped down and destroyed and broken. You know, from the Social Security Administration to their public schools, to the dao. I mean, to our military, to our international reputation. He is breaking everything. And by design. And I keep saying that that is not an accident. He's on plan. But your point about being bold and being brave and also organizing and also just being creative, I mean, there is a stunning failure of imagination in this country. I have talked about it a lot. You and I have talked about it. And at the same time, the country is ripe for leaders who are emerging. I think you see that in glimpses of leaders like Mayor Fry, maybe in Minneapolis, you see other leaders. Senator Kelly. Right. Who are punching back and just showing courage. And now, you know, Renee Goode, like, her story and even that story, which is so powerful, they want to diminish. They want to label her a domestic terrorist. They want to reduce her because they know how powerful her image and her brave example can be. Let me ask you to build on that, and let's go below the radar. MLK Day was Monday. Black History Month is upon us. And, you know, I said to you while we were getting ready, for me, it's Veterans Day. That's like my everything you. It's MLK Day. It's Black History Month. But I say every Veterans Day is different, just like every 911 is different. And those of us who work in those spaces know that every year that happens in a different context, on a different level. Can I ask you to just run with the ball? You're not rambling, you're riffing. Just riff on MLK Day. 20, 26, and this moment when maybe we need his example and his courage more than any other time in my life, in 51 years, I feel like we need him and we need to remember what he stood for and what he did now more than ever. But what are your thoughts, sir?
- [40:35]
B
You know, this is one of the most difficult MLK days that I've. That I've had. You know, of course, when Trump was elected, you know, those things were in kind of sync. And, you know, you had this interesting juxtaposition. The country had just elected Donald Trump twice for the second time, and we were going to celebrate MLK Day. And of course, he issued all of those executive orders ending DEI across the federal government at the time. And so here we are. Here we were celebrating MLK Day against the backdrop of the horrors of Minnesota, of what was happening in Los Angeles, in California, in Chicago and in Portland, across American cities, celebrating MLK Day. In a moment where unemployment data shows that black people have been taking it on the fucking chin. You know, where we see that there were this. There was always been this kind of interesting data Gulf black unemployment, twice that of white unemployment during the Biden administration. We began to see that shrink and close. Then all of a sudden, boom in November jumped up to 8.3, came down in December to 7.5. But we're seeing the consequences of the assault on. On federal workers, black women in particular, catching it on the chin. And then you combine that with admission numbers at the elite institutions of education of higher learning in the country. Princeton's numbers, Black admission, lowest at its lowest point since 1968. Harvard, Yale, Brown, U. Texas, University of North Carolina numbers just falling off the cliff. So what we're seeing is not only are people losing their jobs, they're losing access to those institutions that give them social capital that can then transform. Transform the quality of life of their families. Then you see EEOC chair. Now this is MLK Day, right? Then you see the EEOC chair coming out saying, white men, file your complaints. Reverse discrimination is what's really going on here. And so on and on and on. So what I was trying to do during mlk, Paul, I wanted to get away from the Santa Claus King. I wanted to turn our attention away from 63 and to 67 and 68. Ten days before Dr. King was assassinated, he was at a rabbinical assembly with Rabbi Joshua Abraham, Joshua Heschel, one of my heroes. And during the Q and a, someone asked Dr. King, how can I help you in your pursuit? He was talking about the poverty you know, the Poor People's campaign. And King said something that was really interesting that we need to hear today. He said, well, and I'm paraphrasing him here. Well, we can't really address what's going on until we admit that America is a racist country. That racism still sits on the throne of America. This is Dr. King in 68, 10 days before he's dead. And then on the eve of his assassination, nine days later in Mason Temple, he issues the warning. Now this is interesting. He says, well, I don't know really. Well, I really don't know what's going to happen to me now. Every man would love to live a long life. Long life has, longevity, has its place. But I've seen, I want you to know tonight that I've seen the promised land. And we as the people will get to the promised land, right? But then he said something, he said something in between that we rarely hear. He said we have some difficult days ahead. We have some difficult days ahead. And like American Christians, we tend to run past Saturday and jump to Resurrection Sunday. We want the joy and the promise of Resurrection Sunday. So we lose sight of what Saturday actually means. King, we didn't run to the promised land, talk and lose sight of. We got some difficult days ahead. King was reviled when he was murdered by James Earl Ray. The man who was on Time magazine was considered a traitor because of his position on Vietnam, his position around poverty. They loathed him. So I wanted to lift up the King who the 39 year old man Paul, who died and when they did the autopsy had a 60 plus year old man's heart. I wanted to deal with the eyes of despair and depression because the country had turned its back on its promise. And here we are in the 200th year of the nation and we're still dealing with this shit. That was my message. But there was some hope in it because it falls on our hands. It's up to us to lift up the King who sacrificed his life for us to fight right now.
- [45:25]
C
Eddie, you and I have this conversation offline a lot. Who are the leaders that you look to that bring that hope that you want to point? I always point people. I'll say it to Wes Moore, right, Like my friend Wes and our friend Wes, I think embodies hope and is the positive vision of what America can be in so many different ways. But also his energy is contagious and I think people need contagious positive energy. I talked about Fernando Mendoza this week. This kid who cares about his his mother, who's got ms, who is a good teammate, who is humble. Who are some leaders that you would encourage people to look to for hope?
- [46:01]
B
You know, the person that comes to mind immediately is, you know, Reverend Bishop, Bishop Barber. You know, I invoke his name because he's leading the poor people's campaign now. He's doing some amazing work. There's some folks on the ground. I would. You know, what I've been doing traveling around the country with. We are. We are the leaders we've been looking for. What I've been doing, Paul, is to tell folk not to look to politicians. Even though I love Wes, I love him to life beyond numbers. I tell them, even though I'm excited about giving my own politics, I'm more. I hate political labels. I hate them with a passion. I don't want us to be right or left. I just want us to be decent and just in the way in which we live our lives. I'm excited about what Mamdani represents, not because he's a democratic socialist, but because he represents an attempt to break free from the stranglehold on our politics. That somebody, whether you, you know, I. How can. Let me put it. I'm so disinterested in fighting political battles on the battlefield of the 18th and 19th century. I'm so damn tired of whether or not the battle is between Marx or, you know, or Adam Smith. We're much more complicated than that ideological divide. So I've been telling people to look at the folks right down in their community, close to the ground, the folks who are putting everything on the line to make sure that housing in their communities is affordable, that education in their particular school district serves every child. That we don't need to look to these folk in Washington, D.C. we need to look to the folk right in front of us. And together we can change this damn thing. Even though I love the likes of.
- [47:48]
C
Wes and others, I love what you're saying. I share that. I mean, the message is true. I think you and I have talked about this before, at least on TV or in private, that there are these moments that are going to happen. And I've seen them happen. There was the Vietnam vet who had the fur coat on, who was at the protest, right? He had this amazing coat on, right? Everybody saw that, right? And then there was this, the bald white guy who. Somebody said to me, oh, is that you? I'm like, no, that's not me. All bald white guys don't look the same. But the bald white guy who spoke out In Minneapolis, who was walking, right. There have been these moments where these people have been thrust front and center, right? And I think that there, what I would encourage people to do is put more oxygen on that, like, stoke that flame, because that might be our next congressman that might be, you know, a leader who can. Who can go beyond politics. And those are the folks that. That we really need now because they're not partisan. They are so grassroots, and they're happening. And with this new media environment, they can become stars overnight, right?
- [48:44]
B
Overnight.
- [48:45]
C
And that's where I think the real exciting action is, especially for young people who are so starving for this. We saw it in Iran. We've seen it in Ukraine. We've seen in other places, but for some reason or for a lot of reasons, it hasn't really bubbled up yet. But I think we're close to a couple of tipping points where they go from being a protester to. To being on Stephen Colbert in three days, right?
- [49:06]
B
From your. From your lips to God's ears.
- [49:08]
C
Right?
- [49:08]
B
I mean, one of the things we do know, though, and I'll say this, and I'll take the hit on it, you know, it's going to be hard for. For new voices to break through as long as we have a political consultant class that grabs everybody by the freaking ankles. They force. You got a set of political consultants in the background and in the shadows that force people into these boxes where they have to repeat the same old stale politics, same old stale political solutions. Like, we're only capable of moving within this narrow band, Right? And so what we need are not only courageous voices, people who are willing to speak truth to power when the camera is on them. And when the camera's not on them, we'd also need them to tell certain political consultants, you're not going to change my soul. You're not going to capture my heart. You're not going to tell me not to trust my damn gut. These are my commitment. This is my politics. And I'm stepping into the public arena with the sound of the genuine. Not with your damn voice.
- [50:11]
C
Hell, yes. Will you please run for office, Eddie? No, no. Come on.
- [50:17]
B
I'm doing exactly what God called me to do.
- [50:20]
C
Well, God might call you to do some more stuff, and the people might draft Eddie. Okay, folks, I think Eddie needs to be. If not running for at least. I know you got a new governor in New Jersey who came on the show recently, but you represent so much of what is powerful and important and real and good and genuine, and I just always am thankful for you, we're gonna finish with something good. And I'm gonna start, I'm gonna switch it up and go with something very unusual, and then I'll come to you. But we've talked a lot about culture and media, and I want to shout out Fallout. If you haven't seen Fallout, it's on Amazon Prime. It is in its second season right now. It is a post apocalyptic drama that is set in the future after the Great War of 2077, where there's a nuclear holocaust, China and the US go to war, and this is about life afterward. It's got some incredible acting with Ella Purnell, Walter Goggins, so many other folks, but it's a powerful show because it's what the hellish future could look like. In the same way, Handmaid's Tale has so many parallels with what's happening right now, especially the corporatization of our politics, the threat of military conflict, and just the stakes. And also a return to what basic humanity might have to look like if we rebuild our society. The music's great, the acting's incredible. It's an unbelievable show. Like, I walked into it with low expectations, but I continue to find it to be a good escape, but also a reformer reflection on our time. So if you haven't seen it, folks, it's based on the video game Fallout. It's terrifying at times, very violent, but also beautiful and powerful and I think something good. All right, Eddie, over to you, my friend. What do you got? This something good.
- [52:06]
B
You gotta start the second season of Fallout. I read, I saw the first season, so I got to start the second season.
- [52:11]
C
Second season is. What do you think about Fallout?
- [52:13]
B
I mean, bonkers. It was crazy. It was crazy on so many different levels. And, you know, at the heart of it, big business. Big business is doing dastardly things in so many ways. You know, I want to contrast that particular vision with something closer to the ground. I want to lift up my mom. My mom survived throat cancer. And what was so amazing about it, Paul? Remember I talked about at the very beginning that despite all of the craziness that's going on in the world, we still got to live life. We still got to raise our kids. We still got to bury our dead. We still got to tend to the people we love. So in the midst of all of this, my mother was battling throat cancer. And, you know, we were. My brother and sister and I and my other brother, we were. We were going down, My brother and sister and I, we were going down to Moss Point trading, you know, tag teaming to make sure she didn't have one day of radiation without us. But what was beautiful is that she would go into that cancer center with these old white men and Paul, they look like they were some rebel flag having white men. To me, we're in Rebel, Mississippi, on the coast of Mississippi. And my mother and those men forged a bond in the midst of their journey, their common suffering. My mother gave him some cream so that the radiation burns wouldn't hurt. His wife was talking to us about the difficulty of getting him to eat and me trying to get my mom to eat. There was community found in the midst of suffering in an unexpected place. And so I want to say, despite our differences, right, despite our differences, despite all of the hell happening around us close to the ground, we can find the resources to get to the other side of this madness. And I know it just by looking at my mama's journey.
- [54:14]
C
I love it. Your mom must be something else, man. And I know she's proud of you. And her story is inspiring. It reminds me of a line that we use in the military all the time. We all bond in the suck, and, you know, there's a lot of suck going on right now, and we can bond in unlikely ways. And your mom is definitely something good and something great, and so are you, my friend. I'm just so grateful for so much of your time. Your wisdom, your vulnerability, your leadership, your example, your thoughtfulness. You know, I am very careful about how I use the term public intellectual, but I think you are a public intellectual and a public conscience that we need now more than ever. So some good news is we're going to need you a whole lot more all across this country, and I'm thankful for you, sir. Thank you, dear friend, Eddie.
- [55:01]
B
Thanks for. Thankful for you, Paul. My goodness.
- [55:05]
C
All right, folks, that's Eddie Glad. I mean, if you've never heard him before, I'm glad we took so much time on this show. That's what we can do in this format. Please be sure to check out his books. Follow him on substack. I will link to it in our show notes. He's the kind of voice that I want to bring to you in this show. You don't have time on cable news to have a conversation like this. We can have it in this format, and that's the beauty of this format. And I would encourage you, if you found inspiration, if you found some positivity, found anything to hang on, to, follow Eddie. Spread the word and continue to spread that. That energy. I'M going to keep it spreading. Later today I will be on News Nation at 3 o' clock for my weekly segment with Connell McShane. Looks like no MSNBC today. I'll have to see Eddie down the line. I might be on CNN tonight with Aaron Burnett tomorrow. I will be back at Ms. Now for my weekly segment with Katie Tur. We're daily now. I'm going to keep bringing you these shows. We hit 36 in the top 40. Please keep following subscribing, sharing and rating, especially on Apple podcasts, on Spotify and on YouTube. Join our Patreon community. Help us continue to bring independent voices and expanded thoughtful conversations. It's cold out there, but we're going to try to keep you warm. And coming up, we will have more guests on Friday. Willie Geist will be back for Friday Football. Be sure to subscribe and know that America is divided. But at Independent Americans, I am working to change that, to add light, to contrast to heat and the coal of all the other politics and news. So if you're now among the 45% of Americans who are independent or you hear my voice or see my face, this is your show. Our independent movement is hope for the future. Like you heard from Eddie today, country over party, people over politics, light over heat, challenging the status quo in the spirit of so many great Americans. And what you heard from Eddie today and our movement is growing and we are bringing hope that is the oxygen of democracy and spreading it beyond the American shores where we need it. Especially today as President Mayhem spews his crap all over Davos and all over the world. If you enjoyed this episode with Eddie shared far and wide. Invite others to declare their independence and stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And know you're not alone in your vigilance. You hear that every day. You heard it today with Eddie. We're all vigilant. We're all in this together. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for tuning into Independent Americans. I will see you tomorrow. Stay warm out there. Look out for each other. We can handle this storm and all the others. Stay vigilant America. Power by Righteous Media.
- [57:50]
D
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