Trump Thinks He’s Jesus. Iran Blockade Update. Ukrainian Robots Take a Battlefield. w/ Michael Steele.

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff

Episode: Trump Thinks He’s Jesus. Iran Blockade Update. Ukrainian Robots Take a Battlefield. w/ Michael Steele
Date: April 14, 2026
Host: Paul Rieckhoff
Guest: Michael Steele

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Independent Americans features host Paul Rieckhoff in conversation with political commentator Michael Steele, former RNC chair and MSNBC host. It’s a fast-paced, highly charged analysis of major national and international issues—from Trump’s self-messianic antics to urgent updates on the Iran blockade and the Ukraine conflict. The episode blends sharp political critique, cultural celebration (notably, the induction of Wu-Tang Clan into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame), and frank discussion about the future of American politics, the rise of independent identities, and the enduring need for integrity and vigilance.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Wu-Tang Clan, Culture, and Honesty in Hiring

• [02:12–04:05] Celebration of Wu-Tang’s induction to the Rock Hall. Paul shares his famous “Wu-Tang Question” from job interviews: “Who’s your favorite member and why?”
  • “It was an honesty question… it was an insight into who that person was if they could be candid, if they could be honest, and if they had a good appreciation for great music.” — Paul Rieckhoff [03:41]
• Music and culture, especially hip hop as a frame for understanding truthfulness and authenticity in people and politics.

---

2. Podcast Growth and the Independent Movement

• [05:18–06:16] Show celebrates hitting #15 on the Apple news podcast charts—emphasizing the explosive rise of an independent media voice.
• “People want independence. They also want news, culture, sports, and especially right now, national security.” — Paul Rieckhoff [06:04]

---

3. Trump’s “Jesus” Photo and Political Absurdity

• [06:30–08:56] Trump posts an image of himself as Jesus, then bizarrely claims it was “me as a doctor” when questioned—another episode in what Rieckhoff calls the “President Mayhem” saga.
  • “Nothing is sacred to him. Not Jesus, not the Pope, not Doordash, McDonald's, none of it.” — Paul Rieckhoff [08:24]
  • “None of this nonsense is normal. And never forget that this is our commander in chief… This is a person that our allies are watching and our enemies are celebrating.” — Paul Rieckhoff [08:40]
• Reflects broader concerns about U.S. credibility and global perception.

---

4. Iran Blockade and National Security

• [09:11–12:39] Updates on U.S. blockade of Iran—10,000 service members, dozens of warships, and a full halt on traffic out of Iranian ports.
  • Blockade as “act of war” under international law, with Congress avoiding a formal debate or vote.
  • “Don’t lose sight of the humanity of war. And this blockade, make no mistake, is an extension of that war.” — Paul Rieckhoff [12:39]
• Iran proposes a 5-year nuclear pause (U.S. demands 20); negotiations in stalemate.

---

5. FISA 702, Surveillance, and Civil Liberties

• [12:39–14:40] Trump pushes to extend surveillance law (FISA 702), citing “success in Venezuela and Iran,” despite major bipartisan objections over privacy rights.
  • “Is everybody good with Trump and Palantir and Hegseth and ICE spying on you, listening in on your conversations, having surveillance of you, your family, your business, your neighborhood?” — Paul Rieckhoff [14:03]
  • Reignited unity among left, right, and independents around anti-surveillance sentiment.

---

6. Ukraine Frontline Innovations

• [17:54–21:04] Ukraine becomes first nation to use ground robots to fully capture enemy positions—celebrated by President Zelensky.
  • “Ukraine is becoming the arsenal of freedom. They are innovating and creating and pushing the boundaries of technology and defense systems.” — Paul Rieckhoff [19:38]
• Host urges more U.S. and NATO support for Ukraine and recognition of their defensive innovation.

---

7. U.S. Politics: Scandals and Resignations in Congress

• [21:04–23:16] Breaking news: Rep. Eric Swalwell resigns after rape allegations; GOP Rep. Tony Gonzalez resigns amid scandal.
  • “Some disgusting and diabolical accusations… some really alarming and terrible stuff. And meanwhile, Gonzalez… is also leaving Congress… This is bipartisan.” — Paul Rieckhoff [21:46]
• Broader disgust at dysfunction and “driving off a cliff”—with neither party providing effective leadership.

---

8. Rise of Independents and Breaking the Duopoly

• [23:16–26:10, 26:57–30:07] Discussion on Marjorie Taylor Greene, Ro Khanna, and growing political independence, especially among the young:
  • “Almost 60% are declaring their independence… And Ro Khanna was on my show earlier this month to discuss it. So I invite Marjorie Taylor Greene… you said some crazy and disgusting stuff, but you’ve also made some sense lately. And you could be a source of power in pushing back against Trump.” — Paul Rieckhoff [24:48 / 25:06]
• Michael Steele and Paul agree the “seal is breaking” on two-party dominance, with growing interest in true third-party/independent efforts.

---

9. Culture & Sports—Promoting Hope and Resilience

• [25:49–28:04] Celebrating this year’s Rock & Roll Hall of Fame class: Wu-Tang Clan, Phil Collins, Billy Idol, Iron Maiden, Joy Division, New Order, Oasis, Sade, and Luther Vandross.
  • “We need more artists to speak out… especially to help break the seal as the lead singer from the Strokes did yesterday at Coachella—talking about the draft.” — Paul Rieckhoff [26:34]
• [28:05–29:00] Sports as unifying, uplifting force; notable focus on the WNBA draft and an epic Yankees-Angels MLB game.
• [29:00–30:07] Infrastructure issues for the World Cup (MetLife price gouging highlight).

---

10. Fencing, Civility, and Political Warfare—The Michael Steele Interview

Fencing as Metaphor and Anecdote

• [31:29–34:40] Steele’s origin as a college fencer: joining on a whim, loving the discipline and strategy. Fencing as an apt metaphor for political and media sparring.
  • “I love, you know, I’m old school, sort of swashbuckler kind of guy… I fence epee, which is the entire body is the target.” — Michael Steele [32:13]

Where Michael Steele Stands

• [35:15–37:48] Steele describes himself as a “politically centered” leader outside the Trump-dominated party:
  • “There’s a small sort of ragtag team of us who kind of stay engaged, keep leveling up those ideas… I think within 10–15 years we will have a viable third party in this country… The chokehold that Democrats and Republicans have right now is untenable.” — Michael Steele [36:14]
• Emphasis on veterans’ voices, problems within the GOP, and hope for new independent coalitions.

Inside Insights: TV Media and Bill Maher

• [39:04–47:34] Stories about behind-the-scenes at Real Time with Bill Maher (“you have to level up your intellectual game”), the role of comedy in public discourse, and the need for honest, passionate voices on TV as well as podcasts.
  • “If you come up my face with some bullshit, well, guess what? We gonna smack it down.” — Michael Steele [43:38]

Trump’s “Jump the Shark” Moment

• [48:19–54:06] Is Trump’s “Jesus” post and escalating chaos a breaking point for Republicans?
  • “This road… it’s not even a dead end, people. It is a fucking cliff in which the American economy, American culture, American ingenuity and enterprise and freedom go off the edge.” — Michael Steele [51:00]
  • Skeptical of late GOP defectors: “When those of us like me were saying, ‘Stop!’...now you see, ‘Oh my God, we need to stop.’” [53:22]

Is Steele Leaving the GOP?

• [55:51–61:21] Steele: Loyalty to party’s founding values, but not today’s leadership.
  • “It actually doesn’t [give them validity]… because their shit stinks so much. They don’t talk to me… I’m the mirror.” — Michael Steele [55:51]
  • Emphasis on America’s historic promise to all, resilience amid oppression: “Don’t give me this lame ass excuse that…opportunity for my kids is less today.” — Michael Steele [58:35]

Independent/Third Party Future

• [62:50–68:06] Discussion of possible realignment, citing Marjorie Taylor Greene–Ro Khanna alliance as both “opportunistic pairing” and symptom of deeper transformation.
  • “At some point…a broader movement or broader effort to create a third or even a fourth party.” — Michael Steele [63:30]
• Paul: “Demographics is destiny. It’s 45% and growing, and they are an underserved market.” [68:08]

Hungary, Europe, and the Dangers of Authoritarianism

• [69:45–73:33] Hungary’s new centrist leadership is given as example—suggests the emerging alternative to Trump isn’t necessarily leftist but could be “center right.”
  • “It will be more center right than center left.” — Michael Steele [70:21]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Don’t lose sight of the humanity of war.” — Paul Rieckhoff [12:39]

• “Trump just found a new way, especially to upset his base—conservatives and civil liberty focused folks… He wants to spy on all of us. I think we should all say hell no and all stay vigilant.” — Paul Rieckhoff [14:24]

• “Ukraine is becoming the arsenal of freedom.” — Paul Rieckhoff [19:38]

• “This road does not… it’s not even a dead end, people. It is a fucking cliff…” — Michael Steele [01:00 and 51:00]

• “You’re getting punked by a punk… and that’s what Donald Trump is—the end of the game.” — Michael Steele [60:45]

• “The seal is finally breaking on the duopoly—and maybe you, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Ro Khanna can help us lead the way. Either way, the future is here in warfare and in politics.” — Paul Rieckhoff [25:30]

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:12-04:05 — Wu-Tang Clan culture segment
• 06:30-08:56 — Trump as Jesus/Commander-in-Chief segment
• 09:11-12:39 — Iran blockade update and national security focus
• 12:39-14:40 — Surveillance debate: FISA 702
• 17:54-21:04 — Ukraine battlefield robots breakthrough
• 21:04-23:16 — Congressional scandals (Swalwell, Gonzalez)
• 23:16-26:10 — Rise of independent identity and break with party duopoly
• 31:29-34:40 — Michael Steele on fencing: sport and metaphor
• 35:15-37:48 — Steele’s political philosophy and hopes for a third party
• 39:04-47:34 — Behind-the-scenes of political TV and Bill Maher stories
• 48:19-54:06 — Trump’s “jump the shark” moment and accountability
• 55:51-61:21 — Rieckhoff challenges Steele: why stay in GOP?
• 62:50-68:06 — Building a new political movement/third party
• 69:45-73:33 — Hungary, European politics, dangers of authoritarianism
• 73:46-77:56 — Something Good (“the draft” in sports and service), hope, and resilience

---

Tone and Language

• Paul Rieckhoff is unfiltered, passionate, and at times profane, reflecting real anger and urgency but always focused on the humanity at stake.
• Michael Steele is candid, measured, historically grounded, but permits himself moments of righteous outrage.
• The show oscillates between humor (Wu-Tang, fencing, sports) and deadly seriousness (war, politics, integrity).

---

Final Thoughts

Independent Americans remains a powerful voice for the “angry middle,” blending national security expertise, passionate advocacy for independent integrity, and a commitment to breaking up America’s political duopoly. This episode is a must-hear for anyone frustrated by partisan paralysis and hungry for honest analysis and new leadership.

Closing Mantra:
"Stay vigilant. Wu-Tang forever. Country over party. People over politics. Light over heat."

---

Transcript

[VRBO Ad Voice]

You know what they say. Early bird gets the ultimate vacation home. Book early and save over $120 with VRBO because early gets you closer to the action, whether it's waves lapping at the shore or snoozing in a hammock that overlooks, well, whatever you want it to so you can all enjoy the payoff come summer with VRBO's early booking deals. Rise and shine. Average savings $141 select homes only.

[Grainger Ad Voice]

If you work in university maintenance. Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Michael Steele]

When those of us like me were saying stop, this is this road does not. It's not even a dead end, people. It is a fucking cliff in which the American economy, American culture, American ingenuity and enterprise and freedom go off the edge.

[Guest or Interjection Voice]

Foreign.

[Paul Rykoff]

Welcome to Independent Americans. Welcome to episode four 92. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. It is Tuesday, April 14th, and I'm

[Co-host or Interviewer]

coming to you from New York City,

[Paul Rykoff]

USA and the weather is hot.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Very hot. It is 82 and sunny going up to 85 and tomorrow 86 in April,

[Paul Rykoff]

which is nice but not normal, not at all, but hot.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And today's show is hot. Today's guest is hot. And today's artist of the day is hot. It is one of the hottest of all time.

[Paul Rykoff]

The Wu Tang Clan.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Wu Tang because they just made the

[Paul Rykoff]

Rock and Roll hall of Fame. Absolutely well deserved. If for some reason you're young or old or living on Mars and you don't know who Wu Tang Clan is. Wu Tang Clan, one of the greatest artists of all time. Greatest hip hop artists of all time. Cash rules everything around me. Cream might be appropriate specifically for this time and era and this Trump administration, of course. Method man, protect your neck. Wu Tang Clan ain't nothing to fuck with and a lot of other great hits.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

When I worked at iaba, I used

[Paul Rykoff]

to interview a lot of people to join our team. And as my colleagues there remember, I had a question that I asked of everybody in the interview process. It was called the Wu Tang Question. I would ask every single potential colleague,

[Co-host or Interviewer]

who's your favorite member of the Wu

[Paul Rykoff]

Tang Clan and why? And folks might answer, they might dodge it. And it was an important thing. It was an honesty question because I

[Co-host or Interviewer]

would say to them, do you like

[Paul Rykoff]

the Wu Tang Clan? And they would see, yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And I would say, who's your favorite member?

[Paul Rykoff]

And some folks would be like, which told me that they were lying. And then there was another question about whether or not they felt they could be candid.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

For the folks who did know the

[Paul Rykoff]

Wu Tang Clan, I'd say, who's your favorite member? Most people's favorite member is Old Dirty Bastard.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But they are in an interview for

[Paul Rykoff]

a job and they have to think to themselves and you see the brains regulating and saying, should I say Old

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Dirty Bastard in an interview or. Or should I say odb?

[Paul Rykoff]

But it was an insight into who that person was if they could be

[Co-host or Interviewer]

candid, if they could be honest, and if they had a good appreciation for great music.

[Paul Rykoff]

My favorite member of the Wu Tang

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Clan is and always will be Method Man, M E T H O D Man who I invite to come on the show at any time. Who is your favorite member of the Wu Tang Clan?

[Paul Rykoff]

Write a review post in our comments. Hit us up on Social.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Let me know. I'd love to know who your favorite

[Paul Rykoff]

member of the Wu Tang Clan is. I would love all the living members of the Wu Tang Clan to be on the show.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Old Dirty pastor, rest in peace.

[Paul Rykoff]

But more later in the show on

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Wu Tang and the other new hall of Fame inductees.

[Paul Rykoff]

There are some good ones this year

[Co-host or Interviewer]

and I'm going to bring it to

[Paul Rykoff]

you like the Wu Tang Clan always

[Co-host or Interviewer]

did and does and bring you the

[Paul Rykoff]

five eyes that I bring you in every single episode. Independence, integrity, information, inspiration and impact. And our guest today is going to bring that and then some. He is a guest hall of Famer for this show. It's the great Michael Steele. He's the co anchor now of Ms. Now's the weekend week. The weeknight. Sorry, weeknights at 7:00pm Eastern. He's the former lieutenant governor of Maryland, the former chairman of the Republican National Committee. He used to lead the entire Republican Party and was the first African American leader to hold that office.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

He was also a fencer in college

[Paul Rykoff]

and we're going to talk about fencing in college and in sports and in politics and much more. But first, there are some urgent issues

[Co-host or Interviewer]

and stories that you need to know about.

[Paul Rykoff]

You need to use your best fencing skills to slice through them. Some hot ones on this hot Saturday to help you stay vigilant.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

All right, speaking of hot, the weather

[Paul Rykoff]

here in New York is hot, but this show has been pretty hot.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So I want to thank all of you who are listening, who are watching

[Paul Rykoff]

for helping make that happen, for continuing

[Co-host or Interviewer]

to stoke the fire around our independent

[Paul Rykoff]

media, political and social movement.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

We are now number 15 on the

[Paul Rykoff]

Apple podcast news charts.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

That's, I think, the highest we've ever been.

[Paul Rykoff]

That's a really big deal. And we just passed Ben Shapiro. We're at number 15. That means we've got Candace, Megan Kelly, Tucker Carlson on the right, Midas, Tim Willer, Tim Miller, and Bulwark on the left.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

For those folks, we're coming for you.

[Paul Rykoff]

They're still ahead of me, and I'm coming for them. And there's the raging moderates, Scott Callaway and Jessica Tarloff.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

We are gaining on you.

[Paul Rykoff]

And we are coming because we are hitting a unique and powerful mark. People want independence. They also want news, culture, sports, and especially right now, national security. And that is coming in hot.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So let's get after it and hit

[Paul Rykoff]

on our top, top.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

All right, top topic for today.

[Paul Rykoff]

That kind of transcends everything else.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Trump thinks he's Jesus. Yes.

[Paul Rykoff]

Really. Coming off his fight with the Pope, he posted a picture of himself as Jesus, but now he's trying to explain it away in a way that's very un Jesus like. And check this shit out.

[Trump or Trump Spokesperson]

It's impressive to post that dick drug yourself. The depicted as six crimes.

[Trump]

Well, it wasn't depicted. It was me. I did post it and I thought it was me as a doctor and had to do with Red Cross, as a Red Cross worker there, which we support. And only the fake news could come up with that one. So I just heard about it and I said, how do they come up with that? It's supposed to be me as a doctor making people better. And I do make people better. I make people a lot better.

[Paul Rykoff]

So that's Trump outside the White House with a doordash grandma, a lady that was there to deliver DoorDash for him, McDonald's, of course, to the White House. It was this little stunt to talk about tipping for delivery folks. And the press corps was there and started to ask Trump about this. And this poor woman in her doordash grandma T shirt is just standing there next to Trump as he has to answer questions about posting pictures of himself as Jesus Christ. She also, at some point, he was asked about, about women and men and trans people in sports. And he asked her what she thought and she said no comment. So props to whoever that lady is for holding the line and for dealing with what is a very bizarre and hot situation. But holy shit, the response from Trump. Holy bullshit. I mean, President Mayhem is obviously at it again, and he pulled this poor doordash grandma into it because nothing is sacred to him. Nothing is sacred to him. Not Jesus, not the Pope, not DoorDash, McDonald's, none of it. Not the doordash grandma who probably did, like, 10,000 deliveries to earn the chance to deliver his Big Mac and 19 Diet Cokes or whatever disgusting shit was in that bag.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But he's gross.

[Paul Rykoff]

He's disgusting. Always. And none of this nonsense is normal. And never forget that this is our commander in chief.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

This is the leader of our military.

[Paul Rykoff]

This is a person that our allies are watching and our enemies are celebrating.

[Guest or Interjection Voice]

Our enemies are celebrating.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

All right.

[Paul Rykoff]

Our enemies are celebrating because he's posting pictures about Jesus. And not focused on our national security, but let's focus on our national security. Let's talk about the other part of our top topic until further notice, which is Iran. Yes, the Iran drama continues to unfold. Trump's got himself in quite a mess here. And now Iran has proposed negotiations are supposedly still happening. Iran proposed suspending their nuclear activity for up to five years. The Trump administration rejected the offer, insisting on 20 years, according to two senior Iranian officials and one US official. Which makes me ask, why are they okay with 20 years? I thought they wanted to eliminate it entirely. So if they've stopped bombing and they're negotiating, why negotiate for something less than you would have gotten from the bombing? I think getting rid of the new capacity is a good thing. It's an admiral goal, but the outcomes continue to be all over the place. Now Trump is hinting at the fact that US Iran talks could resume over the next two days because Trump wants a new season of this drama for the world to be captivated by. He's been teasing more talks. He says something could happen over the next two weeks. Next two days. In Pakistan, where the talks had fallen apart, now both sides are really stuck on the proposed suspension in uranium enrichment. They can't settle on a timeframe. The US Also wants to dismantle Iran's major nuke enrichment facilities and the immediate reopening of the Strait of Hormuz. Meanwhile, the Iranians, if you haven't seen them, are posting some pretty diabolically effective videos of Trump talking about Epstein Island. They kind of sound like Eminem videos, but they're really hitting them in a place where it hurts. Also in related news, Israel and Lebanon talked for about two hours and then stopped. First in decades, which is significant and something worth focusing on. But Israel refused to commit to a ceasefire in southern Lebanon. So there we are. All right, let's talk about the blockade, which, as I covered yesterday in the show, is an act of war, according to most international law and international observations. Unfortunately, our Congress has still refused to have a vote on a war in Iran, which is what I think they should do. If they're being responsible, they should come back in session, do an emergency session. But here's something you need to know. Dan Lamoth over at the Washington Post highlighted that CENTCOM today announced that more than 10,000 sailors, Marines and airmen, along with a dozen warships and dozens of aircraft are executing the mission to blockade ships entering and departing Iranian ports. In the first 24 hours, no ships

[Co-host or Interviewer]

made it through the blockade.

[Paul Rykoff]

Six merchant vessels complied. And the blockade is being enforced. It's being enforced by 10,000 of America's sons and daughters who are in harm's way now to execute this blockade. It's a reminder, an important reminder, that the blockade is not just ships and guns. It's people. It's husbands and wives. It's dads and moms, it's sons and daughters. Don't lose sight of the humanity of war. And this blockade, make no mistake, is an extension of that war. These men and women are in harm's way. Don't ever lose sight of the human beings involved, ever. Now, there's something else you can't lose sight of that is below the radar.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

All right? Below the radar in the midst of

[Paul Rykoff]

the Jesus stuff and the McDonald's delivery and the doordash lady and the scandals coming out of Congress that we'll get to in a second. Also with Michael Steele, Trump is urging the GOP to extend a surveillance law, citing the war in Iran. The military Trump has posted on Truth Social saying our military desperately needs FISA 702 and one of the reasons we have such tremendous success on the battlefield, both in Venezuela and Iran. So the president has said he's putting aside his concerns about risks to him as a citizen. And the fact is, whether you like FISA or not, it is extremely important to our military, he's saying. I've spoken to many generals about this, and they consider it vital no one even tactically, even tacitly, said they can do without it, especially right now with our brilliant military operation in Iran. Now, US national security officials have been scrambling to prepare for potential blind spots in intelligence collection if the law lapses on April 20. But civil libertarian groups and civil liberties

[Co-host or Interviewer]

groups on the left and Right.

[Paul Rykoff]

Argue that the surveillance authority risks infringing on Americans privacy.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Here's another unique issue where Trump has united people who could never be united. But you will get folks on the

[Paul Rykoff]

left and on the right, and especially in the middle, moderates and independents who will say, hell no. Hell no to more surveillance from the government. Is everybody good with Trump and Palantir and Hegseth and ICE spying on you, spying on you, listening in on your conversations, having surveillance of you, your family, your business, your neighborhood?

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Oh, hell no.

[Paul Rykoff]

Oh, hell no.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Trump just found a new way, especially

[Paul Rykoff]

to upset his base conservatives and civil liberty focused folks. He doesn't want to come after you after your guns. I guess he's taken off of that.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But he does want to spy on you.

[Paul Rykoff]

He wants to spy on all of us. I think we should all say hell no and all stay vigilant.

[Michael Steele]

All right?

[Paul Rykoff]

I need water for this day because it's hot. Meanwhile, related to this wanting to spy on Americans, ICE continues to run rampant across America. We haven't seen ICE dominating the conversation. Mark Wayne Mullen has been a little below the radar, but make no mistake, that will come back around because they're still doing bad shit. And you shouldn't believe the government. You should believe your eyes. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention. There's more coming up with Michael Steele. Trump is, of course, still threatening to take over the Western hemisphere from Greenland to Cuba. Don't take your eyes off Cuba, because that's still on his vision board. And in other parts of the world, Venezuela and parts unknown in particular, they hit another one. Now, you probably didn't see this unless you're a national security junkie like me, but US Southern Command posts on X, mostly announcements and videos. Every time they do an operation, they conduct an operation. And on April 13, again at the direction of SOUTHCOM commander General Francis J L Donovan, Joint Task Force Southern Spear conducted a lethal kinetic strike on a vessel operated by what they called designated terrorist organizations. Intelligence confirmed the vessel was transiting along known narco trafficking routes. Two male narco terrorists were killed. No US Forces were harmed. Op, Southern spear, no sharing with the public of information about who those alleged narco terrorists were. No authorization from Congress. I haven't even seen a statement from anyone in Congress. But they're back at it. They're hitting boats again. They never really stopped. And whatever happened to that full video of the September 2nd boat strike? Whatever happened to the allegations of war crime? The most important story in the world is still that Donald Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen and nothing is stopping him as his day or night.

[VRBO Ad Voice]

VRBoCare is here 247 to help make every part of your stay seamless. If anything comes up or you simply need a little guidance, support is ready whenever you reach out. From the moment you book to the moment you head home. We're here to help things run smoothly because a great trip starts with the right support. And hey, a good playlist doesn't hurt either.

[Grainger Ad Voice]

If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get

[Paul Rykoff]

it done forever War Rolls On.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

All right.

[Paul Rykoff]

Meanwhile in Ukraine, the war continues to roll on. It is day 1511 of Russia's full scale invasion of Ukraine and there is some good news for Ukraine and it has to do with the results of the election in Hungary because the newly elected leader of Hungary, Peter Madyard, is strongly standing with Ukraine. Post this Play this clip please.

[Peter Madyard (Hungarian Leader)]

Chris and Hungary knows that Ukraine is the victim of this war. And Ukraine, based on the Budapest memorandum of 1994, it is the job of any Ukrainian government to protect its territorial integrity and sovereignty and no one should tell them that at the hopefully at the end of a four year war, what, under what conditions they should enter peace or sign a peace treaty. So we cannot say any country to give up their territory. If they do, they are a traitor. And this is what the fidest politicians said. Then I would like to ask them what happened? What would you do if Russia attacked Hungary? Which Hungarian counties would you be willing to give up?

[Paul Rykoff]

He's saying what the American President should say. Ukraine is the victim of this war. I've said before that what Trump has often done and Vance has often done is geopolitical victim shaming of the Ukrainians. They didn't ask for this war. They didn't ask to be invaded. They didn't ask to have their cities bombed and missiled and hit with drones. But that's where they are. And the Ukrainians amazingly, bravely, stunningly, inspiringly continue to fight back and continue to

[Co-host or Interviewer]

push the edge of modern warfare.

[Paul Rykoff]

And there's news that Ukrainian robots have taken a battlefield play that clip, please, Chris. All right, the top line. Zelensky has announced for the first time in war, in this war, an enemy position was captured entirely by ground robotic systems and drones without any infantry. A robot entered the most dangerous zone instead of a soldier and took the position. He made this statement in front of a whole bunch of weaponry wearing black. It looked like a fucking Terminator movie, but it was really, really impressive. And it shows how Ukraine is becoming the arsenal of freedom. They are innovating and creating and pushing the boundaries of technology and defense systems

[Co-host or Interviewer]

in a way that nobody else is.

[Paul Rykoff]

So it's another reason to stand with Ukraine and to support their obvious and overdue entrance into NATO. There is no more seasoned ally, no

[Co-host or Interviewer]

more innovative ally that we should want in NATO than the Ukrainians.

[Paul Rykoff]

We should also support their entrance into the US into the EU and help

[Co-host or Interviewer]

them hold the line because they are innovating on the forward edge of combat.

[Paul Rykoff]

And one day, we're going to need that kind of technology, we're going to need that kind of innovation, and we might need them as an ally, because we definitely do now. And it's another reason to stay vigilant. All right, let's go to politics, which is uniquely disgusting this week. There is developing story, a developing story around Representative Eric Swalwell. More news continues to come out as he's announced he will be resigning from Congress. A woman has accused him of rape. A survivor, Lona Drews, had a press conference today, said that the former candidate for governor drugged and assaulted her. He's denied all allegations, but accusers continue to come out.

[Guest or Interjection Voice]

And.

[Paul Rykoff]

And it's some disgusting and diabolical accusations. Everybody should be innocent until proven guilty. But these accusations are stunning, are damning, are piling up, and it's some really alarming and terrible stuff. And meanwhile, Gonzalez, Tony Gonzalez is also leaving Congress. He is a GOP guy, so this is bipartisan. You got Democrats and you got Republicans. Gonzalez has now finally announced his resignation on Monday after himself being accused of having a sexual relationship with. With a staffer who later took her own life. He's also facing a congressional investigation into his conduct with the possibility of an expulsion vote. But he didn't talk about the affair as the reason he's resigning. This is what he wrote on X. There is a season for everything, and God has a plan for us all. When Congress returns tomorrow, I will file my retirement from office. It's been a privilege to serve the great people of Texas. Well, looks like it's God's plan to have him out of Congress. And hopefully, if it's appropriate, he and Swalwell will be in jail. And maybe this will give some momentum to the Epstein calls for justice. We've had Ro Khanna on this show before. If you haven't heard that, go back and check it out. I hope Tom Massey will also join us and we will continue to keep a focus on Epstein as most of America wants. I'll talk about it and touch on it with Michael Steele coming up as well. Staying on politics. The Republicans every day drive us off a cliff and the Democrats can't stop them, can't save them. Independent candidates continue to reach out to

[Co-host or Interviewer]

me, letting me know they want to

[Paul Rykoff]

run, especially independent veterans. They want to meet the moment. They want to be the people's champion. And they're not just moving the needle. They are the needle.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And people are smelling what we're cooking.

[Paul Rykoff]

And look who's seeing the future. Marjorie Taylor Greene, play that clip, please.

[Michael Steele]

Chris, do you still consider yourself a Republican?

[Trump or Trump Spokesperson]

I would not. I don't really know if I do consider myself one right now. I would, I would say I'm definitely leaning more calling, calling myself an Independent.

[Michael Steele]

Have you got to change your, your registration?

[Trump or Trump Spokesperson]

I haven't. Not yet. I haven't changed it yet. But I will probably think pretty deeply about doing that. And I think it's important because I think that's where many Americans are leaning. They're finding themselves. They're saying if they're a Democrat, they're saying, well, the Democrat Party has failed me. If they're a Republican, they're saying, well, the Republican Party has failed me. And you know, I had tweeted at Roana this morning, he's mentioned, and others have mentioned pulling together a coalition from the the left and the right and trying to find a new center because the current center has got us where we are. I mean, that's the reality. The current center with Republicans and Democrats, the way they have been coming together for decades now is what we have.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, she says that's where many Americans are leaning.

[Paul Rykoff]

You think? Have you been listening to this show for the last five years, Ms. Taylor Greene?

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But welcome to the future of American

[Paul Rykoff]

politics, especially for and with young people

[Co-host or Interviewer]

who at almost 60% are declaring their independence.

[Paul Rykoff]

They're never filing as a Democrat or Republican. They're starting out as independents and unaffiliated.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

That is the future.

[Paul Rykoff]

And so you're right about that. And Ro Khanna was on my show earlier this month to discuss it.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And if he'd leave the Democratic Party. So I invite Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yes, I'm going to do it.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Marjorie Taylor Greene, you said some crazy

[Paul Rykoff]

and disgusting stuff, but you've also made some sense lately. And you could be a source of power in pushing back against Trump. So I want to have the conversation.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Come on. I invite you to join me here

[Paul Rykoff]

on Independent Americans, just like Ro Khanna did.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

The two of them did a CNN

[Paul Rykoff]

interview together yesterday as well.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So maybe there's some momentum there. But the seal is finally breaking on

[Paul Rykoff]

the duopoly, and maybe you, Marjorie Taylor

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Greene, and Ro Khanna can help us lead the way. Either way, the future is here in

[Paul Rykoff]

warfare and in politics. We're going to stay ahead of it and we're going to stay vigil.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

All right.

[Paul Rykoff]

We're going to stay.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Vision with Michael Steele coming up in just a minute.

[Paul Rykoff]

But first, culture. As I talked about earlier, the 2026 rock and roll hall of Fame inductees have been announced. Wu Tang Clan led the way, but this is a really great class of amazing artists. Bill Collins, who I am always inspired by as a kid who grew up playing the drums, the guy who went from being the drummer to being Genesis's lead guy to being Phil Collins, the

[Co-host or Interviewer]

great Billy Idol, Iron Maiden will be also inducted. Joy Division, New Order, Oasis, the Amazing

[Paul Rykoff]

Sade, who got me through college and continues to give me grace and comfort at times, the beautiful and amazing Luther Vandross and of course, the Wu Tang Clan. So we will continue to feature these artists in the days to come, and

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I hope that they will use that

[Paul Rykoff]

opportunity for their induction to talk about what's happening because we need more artists to speak out. We are looking to people in culture and entertainment, especially to help break the seal as the lead singer from the Strokes did yesterday at Coachella. Talking about the draft. We need to engage especially young people right now in what's happening. And music musicians of all different generations can help us do it.

[Michael Steele]

All right.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So can sports.

[Paul Rykoff]

And in sports, there's a lot of good stuff happening. It's a good break from everything. Last night was the WNBA draft, not the military draft, a different kind of draft, the WNBA draft. And the Dallas Wings selected Yukon star Azie Fudd as the number one pick. She's an incredible player. If you haven't seen her. She's going to be joining her fellow teammate from UConn, Paige Beckers, at Dallas. She's going to make a $500,000 payday waiting for her as the number one pick, which still seems kind of low, but she's an incredible player the draft was inspiring and it's always something to watch. I'm going to talk about the NFL draft and why that's important and the military draft coming up with Michael Steele in just a second.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Baseball.

[Paul Rykoff]

Baseball is getting really good and last night, if you didn't see it, there was a fantastic game, maybe the game of the year that I'm sorry I didn't go to, but the Yankees beat the Angels up in the Bronx 11 to 10. Two home runs from Mike Trout and and two home runs from Aaron Judge. Both will be hall of Famers and they were dueling it out and the Yankees won in the bottom of the ninth.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Really fun.

[Paul Rykoff]

Baseball continues to be an escape. And if you've left baseball, come on back. I mean, the pitch clock and the changes to the game and the level of excitement has never been higher. And I think we're looking at another great year in America and also in America. Coming this summer is the World cup and there is World cup news. The New York Times and the Athletic are reporting that New Jersey Transit is currently planning to charge more than $100 for return rail tickets from Penn Station to MetLife Stadium for the FIFA World cup games. It's an 18 mile journey that ordinarily costs $12.90. For a return ticket. They're going to charge 100. Because it's really hard to get to MetLife Stadium. It's even harder to get home. But this looks like price gouging to me. And no matter what they do, it's still one of the most annoyingly difficult stadiums to travel to and from in America.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I might have to bring back our

[Paul Rykoff]

infrastructure sucks the hashtag and Chris, you might have to make a song about it. But sports and culture continue to intersect and our guest today played a very interesting sport, one that you don't hear a lot about. Fencing. And we're going to need some fencing skills at this time in our nation's history, especially to help us parry, which is a defensive action where a fencer blocks his opponent's blade to guard. Part action in which a fencer blocks his opponent's blade or lunge, the most common attacking technique in which the fencer launches themselves at their opponent by pushing off the back leg, which generally remains stationary. But fencing is an amazing sport. It's an under appreciated sport and we need some fencers right now to defend our democracy. Michael Steele is one of them. I am one of them. And if you're listening or watching, so are you. And now, especially now on this Tuesday, we're all going to have to utilize our fencing skills and stay vigilant.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Independent Americans around the country and around the world. It is a crazy time and we need friends, allies, mentors, leaders who can help us navigate it. And we have a returning champion to help us do that. This is his fourth time, I believe on the show, might be the fifth. He is the co anchor of Ms. Now's the Weeknd. He is on weekdays at 7pm he might be the only Republican with a show on Ms. He's co hosted. He co hosted Ms. Now is the Weeknd. He's been a political analysis. He was elected lieutenant governor of Maryland in 2003. He was chairman of the Republican Party. He was the first African American to hold either office. He's been on Meet the Press, Face the Nation, Real Time with Bill Maher, which I want to talk about, and the Daily Show. He's the author of two books. He is an Aspen Institute Rodell Fellow in Public Leadership, which sounds very fancy. A University of Chicago Institute, a politics fellow and chair of the Gwendolyn S. And Colbert L. King Endowed Chair in Public Policy Lecture Series. This is interesting. I did not know this. He was born on Andrews Air Force Base in Prince George's County, Maryland, raised in D.C. graduated from Hopkins Georgetown Law School and is a voice of reason in these trying and wild times. The great and powerful Michael Steele is back on Independent Americans. Welcome back.

[Michael Steele]

It is good to be back in the neighborhood, my friend. You're looking good, man. That's why, you know, we keeping it clean.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Keep it clean. Right? Right. You also look good. I like that. You got the blue going on. You got the, the, the blue, the blue Jays of John Hopkins, right?

[Michael Steele]

Yeah, baby. This is my, this is our sort of, this is the one of the fencing kind of, you know, I was a fencer. So we, you know, I regale did

[Co-host or Interviewer]

not know that either. You were a fencer?

[Michael Steele]

Yeah. Fence steppe.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Tell me, tell me about how did you get into fencing? Because I live in New York City, my kids go to public school and there's always this like really interesting, very intense focus on chess and fencing in New York City school. So my kids are like fully aware of chess, of course, and fencing. But how did you get into fencing?

[Michael Steele]

You know, it's the funniest story. I was walking across campus, passing the gymnasium with a buddy and I saw a couple of guys who were going to the gym for practice in their fencing gear and I thought they looked damn cool. And I was like, what do they do? And funniest thing Honest to God. He goes, oh, they're fencers. And I'm thinking, is that legal? I mean, because I grew up where I grew up, fencing had a whole different connotation to it. So when he said they're fencers, I'm thinking, oh, man, you could do that on campus.

[Paul Rykoff]

I mean, is that legal?

[Michael Steele]

And they had. And they have clothing, too. Yeah, it was crazy. I was, you know, young and dumb. I was a freshman. But I followed them into the gym, and the next thing I'm watching them and I talked to a couple of guys and I love, you know, I'm old school, sort of swashbuckler kind of guy. You know, Errol Flynn and all of that back in the day. Love those movies. And I went up to the coach and joined the team, and next thing I know, I'm fencing. And I'm fencing because of my height and my arm length. I fenced epee, which is the entire body is the target, as opposed to what people typically know where, you know, it's just the chest portion. But, yeah, it was fun, man. I was pretty good at it, too.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

That's really good. And they look like ninjas and they carry swords, and that's pretty cool. And you don't have to be outside in the weather. Did you ever go, like, to the next level of these guys who do, like, Lord of the Rings shit in Central park wearing armor and they have, like.

[Michael Steele]

No, No, I. I kind of moved on by that. No, I was not in the park slinging a sword.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

No, you know, like at the Renaissance fair, where these guys are out there, like, Renaissance fairs? Yeah.

[Michael Steele]

I just went to the Renaissance fair here in Maryland this. This past fall. I love the Maryland Renaissance. I. I'm still. My son and I go. And I'm still trying to convince him that one year we actually have to dress up.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, I was going to say you don't dress up.

[Michael Steele]

Well, this. I. I don't dress up, but we did. I got. I got my helmet, so I've got. I've got the. The medieval helmet, and I've got a number of blades. I'm a sword collector. So let's go kind of do that and have some fun with it.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I like this.

[Paul Rykoff]

I very much like.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Did you ever do jousting?

[Michael Steele]

I have not jousted. Not on horseback. There are various forms of that that you can do, but it's less exciting because you're not riding a horse.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, I think I've seen bicycles. I feel like There's a whole YouTube

[Michael Steele]

world of like, I've been stupid on the bike. Yes. I've done something similar on a bike. And that did not end well for either me or my opponent.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So my kid, my kids have been watching Dude Perfect. So I feel like there's going to be a whole episode of Dude Perfect where they do some crazy shit with

[Paul Rykoff]

fencing and Rocket and some other thing.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah.

[Paul Rykoff]

All right.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, this was a, this, there's a lot of fencing going on in politics and news. Let me ask you what I ask everyone, Mr. Steele. Where are you, my friend, and how are you in these trying and wild and crazy times?

[Michael Steele]

Well, you know, look, I am where I've always been and that is politically centered in an idea of how politics should work. That has been born out of, you know, a number of years in public service. And that is not where my party right now is, the Republican Party. I fight with it every day to try to pull it back. More and more seemingly want to dive off the cliff with Trump. But whatever's left from that will continue to sort of recreate and reimagine a Republican Party that is once again viable. I don't think this is viable. I think that will be proven this November and I think what will come from that, the aftershocks of that could be pretty important. But there's a small sort of ragtag team of us who kind of stay engaged, keep leveling up those ideas. You and I have had conversations about independence in this country and the role that they not only are playing, but will continue to play over the next generation. I think within 10, 15 years we will have a viable third party in this country, and I think we need it. I think the chokehold that Democrats and Republicans have right now is untenable. I think the American people are more and more coming to realization, particularly with this current generation of, you know, 18 to 30 year old voters who have a very different idea of politics. And you tap into that frequently with the conversations you have. And certainly from a veterans perspective, as we're now at a time of war, undeclared war, in which we've already lost 13 young men and women, those folks in the veteran community who have had experience with this type of behavior from government and those now emerging as voices that are trying to pull us back from the brink, those things become very, very important. And I think they become foundational for politically what will come next potentially.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I want to dig into all of that.

[Paul Rykoff]

I want to get your latest thoughts on Iran. I want to talk about Marjorie Taylor

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Greene and Ro Khanna, but also I want to ask you, where are you geographically? Because there are folks watching on YouTube. It's a very. Not only is your outfit the Hopkins beautiful blue there, it's kind of like

[Michael Steele]

out here in Prince, Georgia's county, Maryland, baby. That's where. That's where we hang out.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And what is over your shoulder, that beautiful black and white photo behind you,

[Michael Steele]

that is Muhammad Ali. And Muhammad Ali gave a speech, and the photo is a photo of him after his talk. He was taking questions, and he was standing there, and the friend of mine took that picture of Muhammad Ali. It is a very rare photo of him. He signed it and sent it to me as a gift. And so I've got Muhammad Ali over my shoulder, and my mom is next to him and in that smaller frame. So my mama and mom, you know, the two people helped me do the boxing, baby, and get out in the world.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Those are two good people to have. Those are two good people to have your back, man. Those are two great, you know, Very good.

[Michael Steele]

I rope it up with the dopes, man.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, you are roping it up with a lot of dopes. But. But let me ask you. Speaking of which, I just was on the Bill Maher show on Friday, which. Which is always wild. It's a lot for folks who don't know it's a live studio audience. It's the first time I'd been on the show since they went to two panelists and didn't bring in a fourth. It used to be three. And then you bring in somebody in the crossbar. I think it was my sixth time on the show. One thing that I forgot about, and they tell you this beforehand, is you get seated when the first interview is happening. Bill was interviewing Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, and I was sitting next to Douglas Murray. And no matter how many times they tell you you're not ready for when the entire stage shifts, the whole thing goes. It's like this giant robot, and it, like, clicks into place like Voltron. And they told me, like, I was like, yeah, okay. But the crowd is in, and all of a sudden I was like, oh, shit. Whoa. Like, I felt like I needed a seatbelt, right? But that's one of my takeaways. I also told folks that he does an after party with an open bar, which is kind of nice, right? It's very few shows do you get to hang out afterward and have a drink. I will tell folks I did ask Douglas to have a drink, and he declined after our testy little exchange, which disappointed me. But nonetheless, I did enjoy. You Know, hanging out with folks after. After backstage. Because I think I also mentioned this

[Paul Rykoff]

once on the show before, too.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Meet the Press used to do this. And you probably did it back in the day, where I think it was when. Back when Russert was hosting, and I think when Gregory was hosting, they would have breakfast afterwards. Yeah, they do.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Remember that? We were like, they would stop. And for folks who don't know, last time I was on, I think, was with John McCain and Wes Moore and maybe Jon Krakauer. And after the show was over, they come out with like, a waiter and china and you have like, a proper breakfast at the table. And it was really nice as a way to kind of like break bread after all the.

[Michael Steele]

That evolved over. Over time to. They would have a lot of that sort of set up in the green room pre show, you could go in, have a nice china plate of breakfast. Because typically what they found is after the show, a lot of the guests had to leave to go do something else that they would get you since you were there so early in the morning. Yeah, shows do that, and it's good. Bill Maher. I've done. My first appearance on Bill Barr was 1996. I was a county chairman, and there was a period there where I would. For about 10 years, I would do Bill Maher twice a year. I would do it in the. This time April, and then again in the fall. And Covid changed that. So prior to 10 to 15 years, over that period, I would do Marshall about twice a year. And I love everybody on the show. Bill and I are good buds. We had some wonderful, really fun exchanges and conversations over that time. And the show is. I mean, the show has changed. Bill has changed. He's come under a lot of noise about how he talks about and frames this particular American moment, this political moment. And I tell people fundamentally that if you follow the thread with guys like Bill, the thread is largely the same. He has been consistent. He's a libertarian at the end of the day. And there are times when they can sound pretty progressive or liberal, and there are times they can sound pretty conservative. And that's because at the core of it is this idea of your liberties, what you are free to do. So when you listen to him talk, you have to do so. You have to level up your intellectual gain. He makes it funny. He makes it a joke, for sure. But the comedy is a way of framing a very serious issue to open your mind a little bit more. Because when you laugh at something, you're less inclined to get angry, right? And this goes to the exchange that you had on the show, right, where it gets a little bit. And I've been at the table when that has happened with other guests, it has rarely happened with me because I will always try to, you know, I'm not trying to make it personal. You ask me a question, I'm going to give you the answer. But if you come up my face with some bullshit, well, guess what? We gonna smack it down. And so it's always been this kind of honest, honest exchange. And what I've liked about it is that Bill has always sought the opportunity to bring voices like mine, Republicans and others to the table. Particularly in those early years where it just was not accepted to have conservative voices on TV because it was easy to trash them and make fun of them. But then when the opportunity to give them a lane to come on and respond, that was not offered. They offered it. So whether it was politically incorrect or real time, whatever that arc was, the motion was the same. And you experienced that on the show. And yeah, afterwards, you have a good party, you get to hang with the people that you may have just done some battle with, offer each other a drink. And sometimes they accept, sometimes they don't. But that's. But, you know, you and I.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

That's right, man. That's life. That's right.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah. I was gonna say you and I kind of cut the same way. That's not my problem. If, you know, you don't want to drink with me, that's not my problem. I'm having a drink anyway.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yep.

[Michael Steele]

Yep.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, now they taped the show, which is a little different. And as we finished taping. Cause I think we taped it like, three o', clock, came backstage, and then Artemis was coming in. And that was kind of cool just to be, like, at a kind of a party with folks. And Bill was shitting on Artemis. He doesn't like Artemis. He doesn't like the moon. Because I figured, like, all right, he's gotta find a contrarian view on this one. But the cool part was that everybody was together. And I think the unspoken part that folks don't know is the. They also fly you out first class. They put you up in a nice hotel, and they take pretty good care of you. They gotta get you out to LA and to get people out from D.C. to walk into the crossfire. But it. But it's. But I think it's also got a really long reach, which has been interesting to see how, as the media has evolved, you know, it hits YouTube later, then it hits Instagram, but it's still got a really powerful reach. Let me ask you a related question. He's got the other show that's like the Club Lounge. I don't know if you've ever done that show.

[Michael Steele]

His podcast, right.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, I thought he just did Ziggy Marley and surprisingly, Ziggy Marley did not smoke weed with him. Him. Have you, Are you gonna. Have you ever done that show and have you ever smoked weed with Bill Maher?

[Michael Steele]

I've done that show and I've not smoked weed. Although I'm a very big advocate of, of, of marijuana and cannabis, hemp and all of that good stuff. But yeah, I, look, I, I just high on who I am. I don't have, I don't need.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, I will tell you, I got

[Michael Steele]

enough juice going on right now.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So he was surprised if Ziggy Marley said no. And I think it's fun to see him have people on, just to see

[Paul Rykoff]

them react to whether or not they're going to smoke.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So, Bill, if you have me on, I will smoke with you. I will smoke with you.

[Michael Steele]

Bill. I know he and I've had the conversation and he's tried on a number of occasions to convince me otherwise. And you know, we, we've had some fun, of course, because, you know, folks know Mike Tyson's my former brother in law, so there's all these kind of.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, you know, now if they didn't know that before, they know that I did not know that. That's.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah, Mike is married to my sister. So, you know, it's just, it's a lot of fun and we have a good laugh. And this is what I'm talking about. You know, there's just such huge lanes of respect for people when you do a show like Bill's. And Bill is a guy, at the end of the day, you know, he's not just a comedian, he's not just a polemicist. He is a guy who's kind of, you know, trying to tap into, you know, everyday things, bringing a rather different funky expression and experience and sort of presses buttons and envelopes, which is fine because we all do that in ways every day. And we just don't necessarily call it that. You know, when we engage with a family member, when we engage with a coworker and you have that discussion, what's the difference, you know? Yeah, the difference is of there's a red light with cameras and an audience, but it's the same conversation you just had two weeks ago with your grandmother who, who you wanted you know, who's bitch slapping you over supporting Donald Trump, and you were going after her over, you know. You know.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah, it's kind of like I was thinking about it. It's kind of like, you know, somebody's like, you know, what are those shows? Like I said, with a guy like Bill, Bill's like Paul Skeens, you don't know what you're going to get. You might get the fastball, you might get the curveball, you might get the sweeper. You don't know if he's coming to you first or he's going to somebody else. And I'm like, you got to be ready. You got to be prepared, you know, you got to be practiced. Yeah. You got to be passionate. You got to be ready to hit any kind of pitch because you don't know what's coming at you. And I think that's true, you know, on your show as well. But let me build on that if I can, and go to what I think is our, our top topic, because Bill is going to be, he's going to get the Mark Twain prize in Washington, D.C. that's going to be kind of an interesting moment. But let's talk about this moment for Trump where everybody's wondering, like, when does he jump the shark? Right? For folks who are too young to

[Paul Rykoff]

remember, that was like a Happy Days reference when after Fonzie jumped the shark,

[Co-host or Interviewer]

the show went downhill, right? Everybody's wondered when was it going to be? Was it going to be when he shit on John McCain or when he shit on the Gold Star, Father Khan, you know, which. What was going to be the breaking point? January 6th. I feel like there's been a, like a confluence of events with ice, the tariffs, the Iran war, all very unpopular. And now he's posted a picture of himself as Jesus and, and is fighting with the Pope. Can you talk about if this is a breaking point in kind of where he is his popularity or people who are willing to let shit go? I hear from a lot of people who are Republicans, who are conservatives, who Magnus words that that's it. I'm done. I've had enough. It's enough. We always wondered if that moment would come for people, but I feel like it's coming now.

[Paul Rykoff]

In the last month for a lot

[Co-host or Interviewer]

of people, especially on the right, Megyn Kelly or Sean Ryan and others that we didn't know if they would ever break ranks. But now they're saying, enough, I'm out. Do you hear that from other Republicans, too?

[Michael Steele]

You hear it? You hear it A lot.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I'm sorry.

[Michael Steele]

I guess I'm a little less forgiving. We've been put through 10 years of utter bullshit in hell. We've watched our government deconstructed and now barely functional. Um, I've been trying, just as a side, I've been trying to deal with matters related to my. My dad's passing last month and reaching out to. Because he was a veteran and he was a government. A federal government employee. At one point early in his career, he had. He was still tied into the system. And so I've been trying to go and deal with some matters related to that. And I get. When I call the numbers that the government tells me to call, you know what the message is? I'm sorry, we're no longer taking calls at this number. I'm sorry, there's no one available to help you. So when I see this and I hear this, and that's just a small, weeny teeny slice of issues that people who were on government assistance programs, people who were trying to conduct general business related to their health care and their welfare, et cetera, and they can't. And you know how this all came about. We know Doge was brought in not to streamline and make government more efficient and to deal with waste, fraud, and abuse. It was to steal our data. It was to take your information and my information so it can be later monetized and used to create wealth for someone other than us. Used against the American people in a way that, you know, now they're talking about, oh, well, you know, executive order to require you to give us States the election data for your. For the people who voted, so we can decide who gets to vote and who doesn't get to vote. So when all of this shit is happening and I'm hearing the Megyn Kellys and others out there wa wa about Donald Trump, kiss my ass. I'm not buying it. Because you're part of the creation of this. When those of us like me were saying, stop, this is. This road does not. It's not even a dead end, people. It is a fucking cliff in which the American economy, American culture, American ingenuity and enterprise and freedom go off the edge. And so now everyone is like, whoa, well, what's making you do that? At what point did you begin to realize the warnings that we were putting out in 2015 and 16? Now you see, oh, my God, we need to stop. So I get it. I get it, Paul. The appreciation that some are having, you know, the sort of the coming around that people are having. And I guess if that's a breaking point, okay, whatever. But now we have a mess that we're going to have to deal with. I recall again, 13 service members have died because of what this man has wanted for his economic exploits. You have two people in the Middle east negotiating peace, Mr. Witkoff, Stephen Wyckoff and his son in law, neither of whom are diplomats, neither of whom have no experience in this space. They're there cutting land deals. That's what they're there for. And so the reality of it is, when the president has not addressed the death of these soldiers, when he stands there in a very sobering and somber moment at Dover with a fucking baseball cap on his head, don't come to me now saying, oh, I get it. Because there are 13 soldiers who are dead, there's an economy that's in ruins. And now you bitched at Joe Biden about the price of eggs. Oh, have you seen the price of gasoline? Have you seen the price of wheat for farmers? Have you seen the price of other items in your life that you're paying for because ships are. And the production lines are jammed up or cost too much that you're now seeing it at your Walmart and at your grocery store? Now you get it. So, you know, I just, I just need that moment.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

This is why I wish they let you. I wish they let you curse on Ms. Now a little more. This is what, you know, this is why podcasting is fun. This is where you get Michael Steele unplugged. I mean, but you know what, there's something that's important that you're bringing that I think that I respect a lot. And I'm you. And I text at times when you're on TV or I'm on tv, you know, you bring emotion. And a couple, you know, it's fun

[Paul Rykoff]

to watch the reaction to my Bill

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Maher piece on Twitter versus Blue sky, Blue sky. People like, hey, Twitter, like, you're bald and retarded, right? That's literally what they call me, right? And like, you know, so I get these, these contrasts. But a lot of people, like, he was very angry. I wore this shirt today, the old angry American shirt, dressed for that. Because I've said if you're not angry, you're not paying attention. But what I've heard from a lot of people is they're glad to see emotion. They're glad to see other people who are outraged. Because sometimes, you know, we go to these shows, everybody sits down, everybody's very polite, and we like this Guy's talking about like reinvading Iran and I'm supposed to sit there and go, oh yes, that's a buyer. But no, fuck that. Like this is fucking nuts. And I'm not going to normalize some of that. But let me ask you, let's go below, let's go below the radar. This is something I ask you each time. Whatever it is. His popularity is dropping the midterms. If they happen in a free and fair, the Republicans may get demolished. I don't know. But let me ask you this. A lot of folks are leaving the Republican Party. That is an upside. Right now he's driving them out. They're also leaving the Democratic Party. I'm going to ask you this every time you're on. Are you ready to leave the Republican Party now? Are you still going to give them your good name? And you got Muhammad Ali and your mom and your. And I feel like they're still trading off that a little bit. As long as guys like you that are respected are still associated with this bullshit, it gives them just a little more validity. It doesn't.

[Michael Steele]

It actually doesn't. It doesn't give those individuals validity because their shit stinks so much. And they don't talk to me, they don't want to engage with me because they know when they do, I'm the mirror. I'm reflecting back to them what they've become. And I'm trying to the rest, to everyone else, reflect what we should be, not what we were. Because I'm not looking to recreate the past. I'm looking to level up a reminder that at the core of, and this is why I've always, from the very beginning, this is my 50th year as a member of the Republican Party. In 1976, I cast my first vote as a young 18 year old kid looking with no idea that the road ahead of me would lead to any of the stuff I've done politically. But what I did know, that the party I chose to join was the party of my ancestors that realized and recognized in me as a black, black kid growing up in D.C. that the words of the Constitution applied to me as much as they did to the white kid who lived around the corner. And that that party stood for that ideal that we are all created equal and we're all free to experience whatever this country has to offer. And that at the core of it remains our liberties. And the idea that if I want to do X, I can go do it. And if I decide to move from X to Y, I can do it. That sense of freedom has always defined us. And no matter how we got here, and some of us got here in very ugly ways, and some of us got here, just got on the boat and just came on over and it was a good ride, right? Doesn't matter how you got here. The reality is what this country allows you to do once you are here and the fact that we. Now, to be very frank with you, because I've always been that way, that you have some white folks who are more scared of me and the idea of what my kids can do than being concerned about creating that pathway for their own future and saying, well, my pathway is narrowed because you're here. Well, that's bullshit. That's bullshit. When you look across the country at any point in time, whoever was here just kind of made their way. I mean, explain to me how when you tell me that I am three fifths a person, I can't engage in commerce, you will not educate and allow me to read. You tell me that I can't have any economic enterprise and when we create it, you go put on hoods and burn it down, right? And yet here I sit as the former lieutenant governor of my state and the former chairman of my, of my party and I have a show on television. So don't fucking tell me America doesn't create an opportunity regardless of the circumstance. And don't stop. I never once blamed white people for my problems when I had them. My mama taught me something very different. Despite the fact that she couldn't take me to parks in D.C. she couldn't shop where she wanted to, and she had to confront for white only signs wherever she went with her son, with her young son, she still instilled in me this idea that I could be something and do something in this country, despite what the obstacles were for her. So don't give me this lame ass, excuse me, that oh, well, the opportunity for my kids are less today. Well, guess what? Try not being able to educate them to shop where you want to shop. Have Jim Crow laws follow you wherever you go. Have white people or any people lynch you if you dare look at them, live in that environment and then tell me what it's going to be like for your kids then and in future generations. When I go back in time, that's the America that I still believe is there. And I'm tired of people being lazy, Paul, and making excuses. Instead of recognizing you're getting punked by a punk, you're getting punked by a man who didn't have the balls to fight for the country he now runs, who didn't have the balls to be honest about his own racism. And in dealing with the Central Park Five, still calling for the execution of innocent young black men. Why? Because he had a. Had a stereotype view of what black people are and what black people do and couldn't offer them how, wouldn't offer them housing because it had to go to court because the federal government said, dude, you can't block black people from living there. This man's the president and he's down out here pushing all this bullshit. Come on. You gotta recognize the game and you gotta be honest about it and you gotta figure out how to make your way through it because otherwise you don't. It ends for you. And that's what Donald Trump is. He's the end of the game.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

So Pete Hegseth is not inviting you to prayer breakfast at the Pentagon, huh?

[Grainger Ad Voice]

No.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I think that what you're putting down is really important, as always, and the way you're challenging them is important. I do hope that the future includes people fighting from the inside and fighting from the outside. But I do want to build on that, the fact that you're still there in the Republican Party fighting the good fight. And I hope that there's this vision one day where you or a guy like you is again the chairman of this party that had John McCain and Ronald Reagan and George Bush. But right now it's just like this rotting cesspool of misery and dishonor, right? But in the meantime, but in the meantime, some folks are jumping ship and there is this moment now, you know, you and I have talked about the opportunity for independence. I think it's still there. We've got it. Especially in states where Democrats can't win. Independents can do very well. But I think it's the future and we keep waiting to see if someone's going to break the seal, right? And I asked Ro Khanna on my show a couple of weeks ago, I said, will you leave the Democratic Party and maybe run as an independent? He didn't rule it out. Fast forward yesterday, he's on CNN with Marjorie Taylor Greene talking about a potential third option third party independent ticket. I feel like we're at this moment where somebody's going to break, right? And I've always hoped it was someone like Don Bacon and Jared golden, but it might end up being Marjorie Taylor Greene and, and Ro Khanna, who I think is a bit more respected and different. But point is, I feel like some, like there's an opportunity here.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Also for someone who might not get the nomination, who might be a fringe candidate, who might be opportunistic. And they say, you know what, we're going to be the first ones and I'm going to put my foot or put my stake down in this and see if there's an oil well there. And I told Ro Khanna this. I said, I think there is. I think there are a lot of people who want that. Whether or not he's the guy, I don't know. But I feel like we're close to a couple of people leaving. Do you see that? And what's your reaction to the Ro Khanna Marjorie Taylor Greene alliance? Because maybe Tom Massey said no to him. I don't know.

[Paul Rykoff]

I challenged him.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I said, can you and Massie build something together? Because you're on Epstein, you're on Iran, you're on all these issues. Maybe Massey said no and Marjorie Taylor Greene said yes.

[Michael Steele]

Yeah, I think that's just opportunistic pairing. I just think it is happenstance as well. I don't think that there's any real political movement that comes out of that interview that you saw and referred to. I do think that, and I think I know there are people who are leaving the party because they have reached that breaking point where the party has left them. And that's very important to understand. People don't leave political institutions because of what it takes to join them. In other words, it is not just, oh, I want to be a part of a club. It is an ideological orientation. It is a philosophical grounding. It is looking at the history and the polemics and all these other things that sort of make up the idea of being a Democrat, the idea of being Republican and understanding the transformation. You know, when you look at Thomas Jefferson, he led the Republican Democrats and they eventually became the Democrats. You look at, you know, Abraham Lincoln, they were member. He was a member of the Whigs and that became Republicans. And so there's this transformation that you're alluding to that is a real thing that when those people, philosophically and otherwise, feel that they have been set aside by the established order that they're a part of, or that order is not moving in direction that they see the country going. And that was the Whigs. The Whigs were like, wait a minute, there is this real discussion the country needs to have about slavery. And you're not just going to get there by saying, oh, you can't do it here, and we won't expand it there, but we're going to keep it because it fundamentally still challenges the words in the Constitution. We the people. Right. And all men are created equal and all. No. Right. So when you have that kind of confrontation of spirit, it does move people. But what happens is that movement is a result of how the established order has moved away from those principles, and we see that a lot. So, yeah, I think you're right. I think that that will be part of the formation of coalitions that at some point may converge into a broader movement or broader effort to create a third or even a fourth party. There's two things could happen at the same time. You go back and you look at the 2007, 8, 9 cycle, the emergence of Occupy Wall street and the Tea Party, two movements that philosophically were reflecting back their disagreement with the war and the economy and Wall street, et cetera. Two sides of the same coin. Yeah. So those things can happen and it could be a new coin being minted that on one side is a Marjorie Taylor Greene and a Rogan and others, and on the other side is a Ro Khanna and a Garcia and some, you know, some others on the Democratic side that create this new thing.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Michael Steele]

I mean, there's a lot of people like you will. Can be very important. I'm not just blowing smoke here. I think you can be very important because you've always occupied this lane. You've always seen the vision of this lane and where it potentially could go. And as more people. I mean, because folks need to realize, you know, Paul didn't just show up today. Paul has been advocating in this space both on behalf of vets and now more broadly, the American people for a long time. So this is not. Again, look at that evolution I'm talking about. Think about where you were when you started that conversation with four people looking at you like you'd lost your mind. And now having the reach you have, having the conversations that you're having with the people you're having, that's the expansion of the effort. That's the growth of the moment as more and more people see themselves getting on that lane and following you and creating conversations on their own.

[Paul Rykoff]

I appreciate that. I mean, it's.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Look, I mean, demographics is destiny. It's 45% and growing, and they are an underserved market. And I've always seen that. I've always believed that. But they also have a set of

[Paul Rykoff]

values and integrity that this country is looking for.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And people want folks who are willing

[Paul Rykoff]

to say none of the above.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But I do think the animating Issues of ice, tariffs, tariffs, which I think is underappreciated, the war in Iran. And Epstein, if those four things come together and you got people who say, you know what? Everything else is secondary. We want accountability on forever wars, Epstein. We want no more tariffs and no more ice. Like, that's a pretty good fucking platform to reach a lot of people in this country. And if it's Marjorie Taylor Greene or it's Karo Khanna or even more so if it's somebody who's never worn a jersey that's red and blue, I think the moment is really, really there. Let me ask you this, though, because

[Michael Steele]

real quick, just real quick on that, just. I think. I think, folks, if you want to get an example of what you're talking about, look at Mayor Mondame in New York.

[Paul Rykoff]

Yeah.

[Michael Steele]

Republicans tried to plaster him as this crazy socialist communist now. And people leaving New York in droves. Well, people leaving New York long before he showed up for a whole host of reasons that go from taxes to turf. Right. So he's a good example of what you're talking about, particularly with respect to people we don't know. Today, we're naming people who are easily identifiable and people already have formed opinions about. This space will be occupied and shaped by someone we don't even know.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I love that. That is so true. And I believe that. I mean, that's where I'm so excited about the independent veterans that are coming

[Paul Rykoff]

up and someone like Seth Bodner, who's

[Co-host or Interviewer]

been on my show. Nobody probably knew about him a couple

[Paul Rykoff]

of weeks ago outside of Montana.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But if this guy can get elected, if this guy can get momentum, he can prove the concept. But I also was going to ask you. And then we'll get to something good. And then I know you got to go do your show, but I thought Hungary was really important because Mike Jar is not a leftist. He's center right. Right. And I think in this country, everybody assumes the Democrats are gonna save you. And what I keep saying is the alternate to Trump is not necessarily Mamdani. It might be something more in the middle or even center right that has. That is on the landscape. I don't think it's Andy Beshear.

[Michael Steele]

It will be more center right than center left.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Yes, I think that's right. And I think that the narrative in this country underappreciates that because they can't think of too many people anymore that. That are alive, that are center right. Except for maybe you and Kinzinger and

[Paul Rykoff]

a couple others like Chuck Hagel.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Who's not really, you know, where there is a really important space for that right now. But I do think it's important for folks to look at Hungary that the most important thing he did was run against Orban and run against authoritarianism and the economic situations and, you know, rejoining Europe.

[Michael Steele]

He had his list of four things, three things that as you just identified before, they weren't, you know, the war and so forth in the way you list them, but they were unique and specific to the governance of Hungary by the current leadership. It was specific to what's driving the people of Hungary. I was in Romania a couple of years ago, speaking at an event that brought people from across Eastern Europe and other parts of Europe. And there was this very strong, you know, at that time, very strong cockiness about, you know, sort of a, you know, the, the brace between or Bran and Trump sort of created this sort of cocky lane of authoritarian right wing bullshit that. My argument to the crowd was, that's not how you win friend and influence people. You can't, you can't say you hate immigrants when they're, you know, there are immigrants everywhere because, hey, asshole, you're an immigrant too, right? You started over here, but then your parents and your family moved over there. Yeah, same continent, just a different location, new country. Right. It's not like you had to cross an ocean to get to a place like America. People just don't understand the migrant flows out of Africa, the birth of all civilizations by the way, into Europe and Asia and so forth. That's just nature and human. Now you want to kind of draw these crazy fake lines. Okay, do that. But understand that culturally, socially, economically, those things connect people. And so when you, if you want to have that influence and to create something better, you've got to speak to those social, economic and cultural influences that they're experiencing. So when bread costs and their food lines and there's no gas and there's this, that's their focus. They're not gonna worry about who's migrating from point A to point B. They're gonna say, dude, I can't tell.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

People wanna fucking get along. They're sick of fighting with each other. And they look around and go, if we all get divided by these lines, we're gonna be fucking killing each other and fighting forever. We had enough of that shit, right? I family's from Hungary. I was there with my mother years ago. I remember, you know, going back to the homeland and like, you know, Hungary, there's a lot of amazing elements of Hungary, but Hungary is a lot more homogenous than a place like America. And but in that moment, I think understanding the reality, I think people are realistic.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right. I say this about Americans a lot.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

They're not stupid, but they're slow sometimes. Eventually they get there. Right? And now the country's getting there. I love talking to you about this and also updating as this continues to evolve. Let me go to something good.

[Paul Rykoff]

Something good.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I'm going to end with something good. Then we're going to go to your show, which I recommend people check out. So every, every day I pick something good. And I'm going to say, today's something good is the fact that the draft is coming. And I mean, not that draft, the draft I've been talking about on my show all the time, which, you know, you will be mandatorily enrolled for, for, for the draft if you, if you're 18 as of December, unless you're a woman. We've talked about a lot in this show. You're not getting drafted for Iran, but this is an important conversation. There's another draft happening. The NFL draft is happening next weekend. And the WNBA draft happened last night.

[Paul Rykoff]

And it's really awesome.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

It's a great moment to see these young people who put so much hard work in, who have families around them, who have coaches around, who put in their entire life's work for this moment that becomes such a validator of hard work and integrity and determination and the communities that produce these amazing young people. So, you know, I think last night was extraordinary. If you watch WNBA draft to see all of these amazing women. But also next week you're going to see folks like Fernando Mendoza, who I think is a good dude. He's like a positive role model. He's the kind of guy I hope my kids grow up. He treats his mother well. And I think we need these constant alternative narratives to Trump and Hegset and all these assholes. So next week we're going to have a draft. A lot of amazing young men and their families and their moms and the grandmas. Everybody else are going to be there to show what real leadership looks like. So my something good is the draft next week, NFL, especially Thursday night. Watch it. It's really, it's inspiring. But over to you, sir, Mr. Michael Steele. What's something good?

[Michael Steele]

Something good. I like that. I like the NFL draft. I think something good is, you know, it's kind of in the vein of what we've been talking about. But the something good is I just spent last week an Evening with about 600 high school kids and had a talk with them about life and expectations. And the response for them was not just hopeful but enlightening. And the something good is that I think, to your broader point, that people are still finding the good things to do, the fun things to do. And while we, while we, you and I kind of delve into all of the machinations of politics and all of that life is going on, it's just going on and people are still doing things. And, you know, kids are discovering stuff and their parents are sort of exposing them to a world that is less limited and less encroaching on who they are, giving them the freedom to discover who they are in all manner. So that's there's something good. I think, you know, that American spirit of so entrepreneurism, not just making money, but making self is a real positive. It just is. And I usually don't have real positive things to say like that, but these kids were really inspiring. And I just thought, damn, I feel better. I just feel better.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, you have made us feel better. I will tell you for many years, for folks who are not hardcore Democrats, you've made folks feel better if they watch Ms. Now, you might be, I think you are the only Republican over there. I don't know if there's any. Scarborough won't claim the Republican, Republican Party anymore. Right.

[Paul Rykoff]

I don't think.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

No, no, you might, you might be, you know, you're deep behind, I won't say enemy lines, but you were, you were in a very interesting place and it's a very important place. But also, I just want to say you have always been a very positive role model for our children, for our young people. You're always giving back. You're a great example for my kids and for all kids. And you've been holding the line always. You carry yourself with honesty and integrity. And you were authentic before that became a cool thing.

[Paul Rykoff]

Right.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Like, you've been authentic for a long time. And I know you've done a lot of great work over the years. We're going to need you now in the next couple of weeks.

[Michael Steele]

I am inspired by guys like you. I remember some of our first conversations. The first time I got to see you, I think you were on one of our shows on air. And I just thought this guy is really, really cool and he gets it. And your heart for veterans and your heart for people is just good. So for me, it's a lot of, I think what Pope Leo has been trying to convey at this hour. Remember his first Words when he stepped out on the balcony of St. Peter's was not judgmental. It was not condemnation. It was not this sort of we got to get back to doing things. The old it was peace be with you. It was just that kind of deal. And so that's kind of been my animating spirit. It started from there and then just, and I appreciate you saying, being an example, just be a role model of how your mama raised you right? And that's work enough.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Well, your mama did a heck of a job. And I grew up Catholic and my favorite part of church was always the peace be with you. And my favorite part of church, I hated going to church. My dad dragged me out of bed, you know, and especially when I was, you know, coming off like a football game night before or something. But I always love that part where you do the handshake, you do the hug, you do the peace be with you. That's the best part of a Catholic church because the music isn't always great and standing up and all that.

[Michael Steele]

But bring back the Gregorian chant. I'm all, I'm all about that when

[Co-host or Interviewer]

they do it in Latin turned the other way, right? I mean, that's what my grandmother used tell me about, but I was an altar boy.

[Progressive Insurance Ad Voice]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states.

[Grainger Ad Voice]

This is the story of the 1. As a maintenance tech at a university, he knows ordering from multiple suppliers takes time away from keeping their arena up and running. That's why he counts on Granger to get everything he needs, from lighting and H vac parts to plumbing supplies, all in one place.

[Paul Rykoff]

Place.

[Grainger Ad Voice]

And with fast, dependable delivery, he's stocked and ready for the next tip off. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

All right, a lot of conversations to be continued. Watch Michael Steele on Ms. Now. Follow him on all social medias. Thank you for all you do, my friend. And please, as always, help us stay vigilant.

[Paul Rykoff]

All right, that was an amazing conversation with Michael Steele.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I'm so grateful. He's always on the Show. He's been a great friend, a great mentor. He's just a very nice person. And we didn't get to talk about

[Paul Rykoff]

John Wick this time, but if you want to go back and hear our previous conversations, we talk about John Wick and some other stuff that's a little unexpected. You can also watch him, as I said, every every weekday on Ms. Now, I'm occasionally over there in the building in Times Square, but Michael Steele is a voice that we need. My thanks to him. There's a lot of news happening, but as I told you, news about this show. We hit number 15 on the Apple podcast news charts and passed Ben Shapiro, which is pretty significant because he's a juggernaut.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And we also broke in on the

[Paul Rykoff]

all categories segment the first time ever. Not just news, all podcasts on Apple. We hit number 107. The top 200 are linked, and that's significant. And it's thanks to many of you. The fact that we're ranking at all and all of it is organic, all of our growth is organic, is another massive testament to this movement. We have spent zero ad dollars ever to get to where we are now, which is supposed to be impossible, but it's not. Because our audience, our community, our message, this growth is earned, not bought. Built by hand, brick by brick. Thanks to all of you and thanks to our fearless creative director, spirit animal, and producer, Chris Rosenthal, especially. My hat's off to him. To all of you. And let's keep going like Wu Tang forever.

[Michael Steele]

Stay vigilant.

[Paul Rykoff]

All right. I would love to have Wu Tang members on this show coming up. We got some good guests coming up, and I would love to to have any member of the Wu Tang Clan, especially meth, on this show or any of the other living members of the Wu Tang Clan. But they won't be here tomorrow. But Senator Angus King will be. The independent senator from Maine will be back on this show.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

How cool would it be if we

[Paul Rykoff]

could get them together?

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Imagine if I had Method man and

[Paul Rykoff]

Senator Angus King on at the same time. That would be fun. That would be fun.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But who do you want to hear from?

[Paul Rykoff]

We got Senator Angus King coming up. We've got Henry Rollins coming up. We've got a lot of other great guests coming up. But now that we're daily, I've got room and I want to hear from you. Let me know who you'd like to see on this show. Hit me up on social media. You can hit me up on Blue Sky, Twitter, Instagram, and on our YouTube page. You can comment right here if you're watching, and help us continue to grow this movement because we're daily now and we're number 15 and climbing. So follow everywhere and subscribe. Go to IndependentAmericans usually and get some merch. Mother's Day is coming up. You can get some merch for your

[Co-host or Interviewer]

favorite independent mom or independent dad for Father's Day.

[Paul Rykoff]

We will have our merch on the YouTube page soon as well, if we don't already.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And you can join our Patreon community,

[Paul Rykoff]

chip in a couple bucks in honor of Wu Tang, in honor of Angus King, in honor of Michael Steele, in honor of our democracy. And help us keep bringing this independent content further and wider than ever before.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Because America's been really deeply divided.

[Paul Rykoff]

We all know that.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

But we're changing it brick by brick,

[Paul Rykoff]

episode by episode, guest by guest, day by day. Here at Independent Americans, we're adding light to contrast to heat of all the other political shows. I am proud of the fact that we represent a very different, less extreme, less partisan viewpoint than a lot of those other shows that are in the charts. So if you're now among the 45% of Americans who are independent, especially if you're a young person, if you're under 25, if you're a Wu Tang fan, this is your show. Our independent movement is hope for the future. Country over party, people over politics, light over heat, disrupting the status quo and fueling a new movement that spans all across our society. And that movement is growing.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

And we're bringing hope every show.

[Paul Rykoff]

I'm going to try to bring you some hope. That is the oxygen of our democracy. So if you enjoyed this episode with

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Michael Steele, share it far and wide. Share it far and wide with anybody

[Paul Rykoff]

who's a Billy Idol fan or a Phil Collins fan or an Iron Maiden fan, or especially a Wu Tang Clan fan. And invite others to declare their independence. And stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

I know you're not alone in your freedom.

[Paul Rykoff]

You're not alone in your freedom. You're also not alone in your vigilance. We're all vigilant. We're all in this together. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for tuning Independent Americans. I will see you tomorrow with the latest end, Senator Angus King.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Happy Tuesday.

[Paul Rykoff]

Stay vigilant, America.

[Co-host or Interviewer]

Wu Tang forever Stay vigilant tells me

[Guest or Interjection Voice]

the left and right are dreams for those without a clue and when you wait it's time to grow and it's not cool to believe in school but if I can say one thing I've seen the children of the revolution and the good trouble they can bring he says the red and blue are dead and independent is an attitude an island in the sea of rhetoric and I could probably go. And when you wait it's time to

[Co-host or Interviewer]

grow power by righteous media.