← Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff
Trump vs Springsteen. New Alex Pretti Video w/ Joe Walsh.
00:58:14
Former Republican Congressman, conservative talk host, and one-time presidential candidate Joe Walsh is back—and he’s not holding anything back. In this raw, unfiltered conversation with Independent Americans host Paul Rieckhoff, Walsh explains why he left the GOP, why he took the controversial step of actually joining the Democratic Party, and why he still considers himself an independent at heart. Together, they dig into the Republican Party’s embrace of Trump, the fracture among conservative gun owners, and what it means when a lifelong conservative believes his former party is now an “existential threat” to American democracy.
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- [00:01]
Paul Rykoff
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Joe Walsh
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Joe Walsh
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Joe Walsh
Everything humming right along. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. I mean that I think Donald Trump is evil. I mean what I'm saying, because Donald Trump's next hope, Paul, is that some crazy bad person takes a shot at a border Patrol agent or an ICE agent. That's Trump's wet dream. Because then Trump, a Trump can then change the whole political dynamic and try to get the American people back with him. He's hoping and praying somebody takes out a nice agent or a border patrol agent and then that just walks him down his step of insurrection act. Chaos. Oh, we gotta cancel the midterms. But Paul, I would never say that about any other public figure. That's what Donald Trump wants. That's what he's trying to create.
- [01:35]
Paul Rykoff
Welcome to independent Americans. Welcome to episode 428. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. I'm coming to you from New York City, USA. It is Thursday, January 29, and the weather is cold, cold, cold. So damn cold. I got the hat, I got the hoodie. Hopefully that won't get me arrested by ice, but we'll get into that more coming up. My kids have been back in school since Tuesday, but I learned that some kids have actually been home all week. Lucky, maybe, except for the parents that are trying to keep you occupied. But everyone's luck eventually runs out until the next storm, which might be coming Sunday. But I want to try to help us all stay lucky, especially in this difficult winter. I'm going to continue to bring you the four, the five eyes that I bring you in every show. Independence, integrity, information, inspiration and impact. And our guest coming up in a minute is going to bring all that. The great Joe Walsh is back. The former GOP congressman who had the courage to do what most Republicans haven't had the courage to do, leave the party. I'm going to ask him where his affiliation stands. Now. You know him as a politician, talk show host, he was a social worker, he ran for president, he's the co founder of Paxus. But he's a guy who Never holds back. And is also, I think, a true conservative, which is something we got to get into, because true conservatives seem hard to come by right now. And especially conservative gun owners are pushing back hard against Trump right now after his comments on guns and after the Alex Predi shooting. We're going to get into that and much more with Joe Walsh coming up on this very cold Thursday morning, Thursday afternoon, Thursday evening, whenever you're listening or watching. But there is a ton happening today in America and around the world, and now is definitely a time to stay vigilant. I'm gonna keep saying it. Don't believe the government. Believe your eyes. And starting things off, we've gotta talk about Trump and ICE and the unfolding chaos around Minneapolis and beyond and the new video that's been released involving Alex Preddy. There's new footage of a man who is definitely Alex Preddy with a gun in his waistband, who spits and kicks the taillight out of an ICE vehicle back on January 13th. It was first released in the BBC. And I think the right wing is now running with this saying, look, he's not a peaceful guy. Look, stop the fucking presses here. So no matter what he did, he deserved to be executed. We don't even know if they arrested him. We don't know what happened before and after. And so let's have a proper trial of the two still unnamed ICE agents and have it all come out in the trial, because good luck being a lawyer for the ICE agents arguing that kicking a taillight justifies a man's execution 11 days later. But this is a part of a continuing effort by the government to label people, to diminish people, to attack their character, just like they did with Renee Goode. They can shoot you in the streets and call you a domestic terrorist. So don't believe the government. Believe your eyes and believe what your eyes saw in the video showing Alex Preddy's murder. Don't listen to what Alex Preddy did in high school or if he fucked up when he was 13 or what he said to someone in passing that you heard on the Internet. None of that justifies what. What they did to him on the day of his murder. And that's the bottom line. And pushback continues to happen across the country. And now a judge has ruled in Minneapolis that ICE violated nearly 100 court orders. He said that ICE is, quote, UN is not a law unto itself, confirming what the world has already seen and known. That ICE is unregulated. They are undisciplined, they are unlawful and they are unconstitutional. We're going to get into more with that with Joe Walsh coming up. And now Homan is on the ground. The so called border czar is in Minnesota because Trump always tries to find a way to make things worse. And after sending in JD Vance, why not send in Homan? But Bavino is now been removed. We don't know what exactly he's doing and where he's going to be. But the White House czar has vowed to stay there until, quote, the problem's gone and hold federal agents to new standards of conduct. We will see what that means. Because it's hard to just cut the head off a snake when the culture is rotten to the core. I've said this about ice. The culture is broken, the trust is broken. And Homan coming in is not gonna fix that. There is a deep, deep problem in the way that ice is constructed, the way the ice culture has unfolded, and of course, the way the ICE culture has been led. And it looks like Democrats are finally growing a spine. I don't think the Democrats are going to save us, but they are pushing back now, demanding probably what they should have demanded all along. They have some new conditions for ICE workers. They say they want to ban them from wearing masks. They're asking that the agents wear body cameras and carry identification. They would put an end to roving patrols and require warrants from a judge to arrest and do searches. Meaning they want them to behave like normal American law enforcement and, and not the fucking Gestapo. Nice of you to join us here, Democrats. They say they're gonna oppose the funding unless they get it. A lot of them are having a come to Jesus moment because many of them voted to confirm Kristi Noem and now want her removed. But I think about six or seven Democrats, including Senator Slotkin, voted to confirm Kirsti Noem, and now they're surprised that she's acting this way. Some of the same people who voted to confirm Radical Culture Warrior and acting Secretary of Culture War Pete Hegseth, the same people who voted to confirm Radical VA Secretary Doug Collins, they were warned, they were told, and they voted for them anyway. And now they want to try to have a makeup call. Well, they're not going to get it. And remember, the president continues to send chills around the world and around the country and yesterday, a reminder that he does not want free and fair elections in November. He knows if there are free and fair elections that he could be impeached, he could be put in jail, he could be slowed down. He's all Gas, no breaks, and for the most part, nothing stopping him. So he sicced the FBI on an election center in Fulton County, Georgia, yesterday, seizing ballots and a huge escalation of their attack on the 2020 election. This is the big lie. And now they've seized the ballots, the voter rolls, tabulator tapes, and all that kind of stuff. And guess who appeared? Reuters caught a picture of someone that I'll try to show on screen if we can, if we're watching, on FBI, on. On, sorry, on YouTube, if you can. But while the FBI is hitting the election hub, there's a Reuters photo of Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard speaking on a phone, hiding inside a vehicle loaded with boxes, with a hat on, like a secret agent. She looks like a Bond villain, she acts like a Bond villain, and what the fuck is she doing there? We've been asking, where is Tulsi Gabbard? Well, it looks like now we know. She should be pulled before Congress. She should be pulled before the American people. We have a right to know. I'm going to keep saying, where's Tulsi? Because it looks like now we know, and it's not good. Also not good, the continued pushback on Trump after his comments regarding guns. We're going to talk to Joe Walsh about that coming up. Just as a reminder, Trump said, with that being said, you can't just have guns. You can't walk in with guns. You just can't. You can't walk in with guns. You can't do that. That's what Trump said. Now, they've always told you the Democrats were going to take your guns. It's not the Democrats, it's the fascists, and they're saying it out loud. All right. Meanwhile, ICE continues to run rampant across America. In Minneapolis, in Maine, in Phoenix, every day, more disturbing videos and more disturbing news. And they think that the law doesn't apply to them. They're lawless, and they're also dumb as hell. I'm going to try to show this video if we can, but the New York Times shows an ICE agent trying to enter the Ecuadorian consulate in Minneapolis on Tuesday. You. If you touch me, I. I will grab you. If you touch me, I will grab you. Okay, okay. You can. Okay. But don't touch me. Okay. All right. You cannot enter here. This is the consulate.
- [10:06]
Joe Walsh
This is the foreign.
- [10:21]
Paul Rykoff
Now, under the Vienna Conventions, to which the US Is a party, foreign consular buildings are off limits to law enforcement without authorization from the consular officials. So ICE agents tried to go into the consulate which is a sign of how undisciplined, unprofessional, un American, and unacceptable they are. Again, don't believe the spin. Don't believe the government. Believe your eyes and watch that video ISIS detaining citizens and cops and kids. This is where we are now. And if they can do it to all these other people, from Renee Goode to 5 year old Liam Ramos, they can do it to you. If you're not angry, you're not paying attention. Now I continue to call on veterans who I think can lead the way. Check out my recent episode where I appealed on veterans who work inside ICE to hold the line, to defend values, to be lawless. And I encourage veterans across the country to stand up now, be, be outspoken and do what you can to defend our democracy. Because Trump sure as hell isn't trying to do it. And he continues to piss off the entire Western hemisphere. We continue to hear pushback from our allied veterans from the UK to Australia to everywhere in between. Folks in Greenland are, of course, still pissed off. Trump continues to wage war against the free press and our public health. Now, there have been no new strikes on Venezuelan votes so far today. No seizures of oil tankers so far. But there was a testimony yesterday from Marco Rubio, and you can check it out as he has an exchange with Senator Tammy Duckworth.
- [11:49]
Joe Walsh
Mr. Secretary, last March, the President invoked the Alien Enemies Act, a notorious wartime law last used for Japanese internment. He said that he was responding to the Maduro regime's supposed invasion or other acts of war against the United States.
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Paul Rykoff
But in recent weeks, you, the Department.
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Joe Walsh
Of Justice, and our friends across the aisle have repeatedly said that we are not at war with Venezuela.
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Paul Rykoff
Secretary Rubio, if that is true and we are not at war with Venezuela, will you advise the President to rescind.
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Joe Walsh
His invocation of the wartime Alien Enemies Act? Well, that was a mechanism to remove people from our country that prevent grave danger. So, for example, we know for a fact that Trinidad Agua is a very dangerous gang. In fact, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, I may have been the first member of Congress. It was a wartime act, Mr. Secretary.
- [12:34]
Paul Rykoff
Well, are we at.
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Joe Walsh
Are we currently at war with Venezuela? No, we're not in a state of war in Venezuela.
- [12:39]
Paul Rykoff
Okay. The Supreme Court has described the Alien.
- [12:41]
Joe Walsh
Enemy's act as a wartime power.
- [12:43]
Paul Rykoff
Now, Rubio says we're not at war. So are we at war? Are we not at war? We're at war. We're at forever war. And they're at war with the Constitution, and they've told us that Cuba could be next and any other number of countries could be next. And let's move over to Iran, where we've got to keep our focus. As our friend Dan Lamoth has noted, there is a US Naval buildup in the Middle east that's continuing now. The aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln and three warships are arriving in the North Arabian Sea. Their destroyers, Frank Peterson, Spruance and Michael Murphy, are also there. Another US Destroyer, the Delbert Black, arrived in the region and was in the Red Sea on Thursday. Two other destroyers, the McFaul and Mitscher, were near the Strait of Hormuz. And the Boki, the Roosevelt, are also in the Mediterranean Sea. A reminder. Trump has said he will eliminate Iran. He says he'll pave the place. He's threatened action on Iran. He still does not have congressional approval. He does not have the support of the American people. But he's all gas, no brakes. And the most important story in the world, don't lose focus of this, is the fact that Trump can do anything he wants with the most powerful military the world has ever seen, and nothing is stopping him. And of course, he's not doing enough with that military to help our friends. In Ukraine, where it's day 1436 of Russia's full scale invasion, Ukrainians continue to face much deeper, much more intense, much more deadly cold than anything we're facing here in the US And I want to pull out something to tell you why Ukrainians are awesome. There was a story, and I'm going to share it in the show, notes that there was an older lady, a grandmother, who wrote in the snow, I ask for bread in the snow. She was cold, she was hungry, and she wrote in the snow in Ukrainian, I asked for bread. Then the Ukrainian military saw it and they delivered it. Ukrainian soldiers from the Phoenix unit of the state border found an elderly woman who was asking for bread. And without hesitation, they packed a bag and they delivered it to her by drone. The grandmother received the package and wrote thank you to in the snow. Inspiring. Amazing. And I want to remind everybody that this is just another example of why the Ukrainians are the most tested military on the planet. Maybe we should let them in NATO. No, I mean, keeping them out is like keeping Belichick out of the hall of Fame. It's ridiculous, it's petty, and it's not going to last for very long. All right. A reminder in politics that the federal government is on track to shut down at the end of Friday. Democrats are going to block the homeland security bill. Republicans want new measures to restrict ice, but it doesn't look like they'll get an agreement. And we will have a conflict. We might have a shutdown in addition to all the other problems we've got. Stay tuned for more on that. All right. Also in political news, Amy Klobuchar, not a big surprise, has announced she's running for governor. She's been a longtime senator. She's run for president. And with Tim Walsh stepping away, she is running for governor. Related tomorrow, exclusive conversation coming up with a man who used to be the governor of Minnesota. The independent governor of Minnesota, Jesse the Body Ventura, is going to be on the show exclusively tomorrow. My extended conversation is coming up. So spread the word and let people know because independents are the people's champion. And we are not just moving the needle, we are the needle. New independent numbers show that Donald's support, Donald Trump's support with independence has has hit a new low. Only 27% of independents support Trump's handling, 67 disapprove. That's a new record low for Trump among independents. And this is a very big deal. If you can't get independence, you can't win tight elections. And Trump knows that. We will continue to focus it here on the show. All right. One other piece of independent news. There is a new candidate for governor in Arizona. Hugh Little is running as an independent and and could be a spoiler there. Katie Hobbs campaign. The Democrat is most likely to be impacted, but he has entered the gubernatorial race. He wants to disrupt the system. He played quarterback at Arizona State University. He's a healthcare company founder, has worked in healthcare organization. He says he quotes wants to bridge the partisan divide. I'm hoping that Mr. Little will join us here on the show. This is always the place for all independent candidates. I want you to come here first. This is an audience that wants to hear from you and a culture that understands you. All right. Speaking of culture, a really weird situation yesterday, rapper Nicki Minaj did a press appearance with Trump. She hasn't had a hit song in a while, but she calls herself Trump's number one fan. She held hands with Trump and did a quick speech. Trump continues to try to find new ways to get into the culture. And Nicki Minaj somehow has had her mind corrupted and is on board with that. But it was a little weird to see Donald Trump and Nicki Minaj holding hands. But it got some clicks. Maybe it'll help him expand into some kind of new audiences. But it's something to watch because the battlefield around culture continues to be critical and I talked about the number of athletes that are speaking out yesterday. We will continue to speak about that. All right. Finally, in sports, the Browns have hired Todd Monken as their new head coach. He is the former Ravens offensive coordinator and he'll be the franchise's 11th coach since 1999. Man, I am rooting for the Browns and rooting for Cleveland, but stability would be good. All right, Speaking of instability, Giannis I can Tumbo is on the trading block. This is coming down to the wire. A move could happen any day now and some good news for me and other Knicks fans. The Knicks are among one of the likely landing spots for Giannis. I'll tell you flat out, we want Giannis in New York. Come on over here, buddy. We need you and you can help us win a title. Also in the running are the Hawks and the Heat. A lot in sports as more and more athletes continue to speak out. I mentioned Wemby Wembayama's brave comments yesterday about ice we're going to the New year brings new health goals and wealth goals. Protecting your identity is an important step. Your info is in endless places that.
- [18:45]
Joe Walsh
Could expose you to identity theft leading to lost funds.
- [18:48]
Paul Rykoff
LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, all our restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Resolve to make identity, health and wealth part of your New year's goals with LifeLock, save up to 40% your first year. Visit LifeLock.com SpecialOffer Terms Apply if you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant. You know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering with on time restock. Your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-granger. Click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Continue to watch this space. All right, I hope you're feeling lucky because we gotta spread some luck. We gotta spread some positivity and spread some candor. And now on this Thursday is most definitely a time to stay vigilant. All right, after my long and cold intro, we have finally brought back a man who is a returning champion, a voice of conscience, a guy who does not hold back. A guy who always brings light to contrast to heat. The great and powerful Joe Walsh is back on Independent Americans. Welcome back, sir.
- [20:14]
Joe Walsh
Hey Paul, no bullshit. That was A hell of an open. I. I mean that. I'm an old talk radio guy. That was amazing. Great job covering everything that matters. I mean that.
- [20:26]
Paul Rykoff
Well, thank you, man. I mean, now you know why I have no voice. I mean.
- [20:32]
Joe Walsh
I was gonna ask you. Yeah, that's why.
- [20:34]
Paul Rykoff
Well, it's that and. And coaching two youth basketball teams, you know, and screaming for my kids when I'm not coaching. And it's like, you know, five degrees here, you know, I got. And I got this outfit on today just for you. Right. I like it. I kind of look like the Unabomber, you know? And I'm in this weird spot, Joe, where when I go running, I actually go running when it's cold. I get totally blacked out. I got the face mask and everything, and people look at me like I'm an ice agent now. I look like a protester. So I feel like I'm truly independent. I'm kind of fucked on both sides.
- [21:07]
Joe Walsh
You are an independent soul, and you always will be, my friend.
- [21:11]
Paul Rykoff
Well, I'm so glad you're here. We haven't talked in a while since we've gone daily. You are a really important voice. I want to get into guns. I want to get into the Republican Party. I want to get into ice. But let me start where I always start. Where are you, my friend, and how are you?
- [21:26]
Joe Walsh
I'm in D.C. it's colder than shit here, too. I've had some health issues the last couple months. I'm getting old. You're still a young puppet, buddy. But I'm working through it all and still doing what you do, man, trying to just raise awareness every fucking day for where this country is at.
- [21:48]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, man, you've been out. I hope you're. I'm glad you're doing better. I'm gonna take the hood off here just to let a little bit of the heat out here, because I know when I talk to you, it always gets. Gets fiery. There's so much to get into, man. And I think, you know, you're in such an important demo, right? Like, you're a great example of the kind of demographic that Trump had and maybe is losing right now, right? And especially within the Republican Party. I want to start by asking you about where you are, right? You were a Republican. You left the Republican Party before. It was cool. Like, you were ahead of the curve. You saw this coming, and you've talked about that before on the show. I thought you were an independent, but then I looked on your Wikipedia page, and it said you're a Democrat. Clear this up for me, man. Where are you? And what do you think it says about where the Republican Party is right now?
- [22:37]
Joe Walsh
Paul, I feel like we're married and you've caught me cheating on you. I mean that because. Because look, you and I are fucking brothers. I'm an independent at heart and at soul. Nine months ago, in a couple weeks, I joined the Democratic Party. I'm not going to lie to you because I can't lie. There's not a day or week that goes by that makes me think, I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Democrat. But Paul, I did it. Even though I'm older than you, I want to stay on the ground in the electoral battle. I just believe my former party is that existential threat to everything this country was founded upon. So if I want to stay in the battle and, and all I care about is that party being defeated, then I joined the other party just to fucking help them because, man, they got issues, Paul. Defeat my former party, I wrestle with it, man. Cuz I am like you, I am an independent, but for right now, I'm a Democrat just trying to help them defeat my former party.
- [23:49]
Paul Rykoff
Let's wrestle with this because I think this is a really important thing for this show and for so many people that I talked to. And I think it's a breakpoint moment where I'm hoping that people will break the seal. The GOP candidate in Minnesota said he's dropping out of the election because he can't run as a Republican. I don't know if he's left the party. And I think we have to, if we want to slow down Trump, we want to slow down what is an existential threat to our democracy and beyond partisanship, in my view. Right. I think we have to encourage more and more people to leave the Republican Party. But, but also tell them you don't have to be a Democrat. You can deregister as a Republican. You can be unaffiliated and independent. There's a lot of people say, oh, you know, then I can't vote in the primaries. Independents aren't viable, but that perpetuates the status quo. By giving them your sweat equity, your name, your allegiance, you're also perpetuating the other side, which continues to fail the American people. So like, like, what the fuck, man? How do we get you to leave the Democratic Party?
- [24:52]
Joe Walsh
And Paul, again, no bullshit. It could happen because I do wrestle with this every day. Look, I've been doing this for years. I left The Republican Party 7 1/2 years ago. I've been an independent out there fighting the fight. Part of why I became a Democrat was I hoped that I could recruit other never Trumpers and conservatives to join me. I didn't become a Democrat to run for office, though. I could run for office. I didn't do that. I know some people do that. That's not me. I just. This is the. And you and I have wrestled with this question, like both parties. And I say this as a Democrat, both parties suck. I want to live in a world with you where there's a vibrant independent movement. Maybe there are four or five parties, but it's like there's this immediate threat. There's a fascist in the White House. My former party embraces fascism. And maybe it's too simplistic, Paul, but all I've tried to do these last few years is grab my musket and I have to defeat that immediate threat. And the best way I thought I could do that right now is to help strengthen the Democratic Party. I could be wrong.
- [26:08]
Paul Rykoff
I think you. I think you are, but I still. But I still love you. And I think part of what the challenge here is is that I think you would be. I'm going to tell you bluntly, I think you're going to be dragged down by the Democratic brand. Could be like, I think. I think that's what we're seeing with so many people. And I give so much credit, especially to the independent candidates who are running as independents. We've had Brian Bangs from South Dakota, Dan Osborne from Nebraska. He's going to be coming back. Todd Achilles from Idaho, Ty Pinkins in Mississippi. They've talked about how people trust him and respect them more when they're not Democrats. So they're trading off your good name, man. Let me ask you to think about this on a more broad perspective. Adam Kinzinger has been on this show. Michael Steele, same thing these guys said. You know, when it gets really bad, I want them to come back on the show. Like, how bad does it have to get for them to leave the Republican Party? And can you talk about that? Do you feel like any Republicans that are high profile are ready to break? Like, I go to Don Bacon all the time. I hope he'll come on this show again. Representative from Nebraska. He's been a conscience, a lone voice of clarity for the Republican Party. Thom Tillis now is very outspoken. Do you think there are any Republicans who might break that seal?
- [27:24]
Joe Walsh
I talk to Kinzinger every week. There's a Part of me that thinks Kinzinger will leave the party, there's a part of me that thinks Paul, he'll become a Democrat. He's seen what's happened to me these last eight or nine months and I think he's rethinking that a little bit. Michael Steele, I love him. He's got his gig on msnbc. Michael Steele believes the party can come back. Guys like Thom Tillis and all these other guys, they know what you and I know about this fucking party. The party's gone. Unlike all of these guys, Paul, I come from the fucking MAGA base. I talk to hundreds of these people every day. The Republican Party is fucking gone. None of these other never trumpers get that because they don't come from the base. And so they're still holding out hope for the Mitt Romney Republican Party where we can hold hands. Kumbaya Trump. That ain't never coming back. But to become a Democrat is probably too big of a leap for them. So they kind of just check out.
- [28:31]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, I mean it's also, they're older, they have more to lose. Right? They have more to lose. They have allegiances, they have relationships. I think the most exciting part about the new independent number is 45% of the country is independent. 60 plus percent of young people. And they're staying independent. They're saying none of the above. Middle finger to all of it. People say, you know, where is independence neutral?
- [28:56]
Joe Walsh
Can I ask you a question?
- [28:58]
Paul Rykoff
Not if you call me jerkhead. Not if you call me jerkhead.
- [29:01]
Joe Walsh
That was with 100% affection. Like, like you are my brother. Like I may. I'm an independent like you. I decided to become a Democrat because I felt that was the best way to stop this immediate threat. How do you, Paul? Because I know, I know you have to balance that too because you look, you were on CNN last night. I was on CNN last night. We were generally screaming about the same thing. It's generally the threat, Paul. How do you, how do you balance that?
- [29:32]
Paul Rykoff
It's not hard for me, frankly. Like, I think they all suck. And I think, and I don't want to give them my good.
- [29:37]
Joe Walsh
They don't suck equally.
- [29:39]
Paul Rykoff
No, they don't suck equally. But that doesn't mean that I should choose the lesser of two evils. I think that we can build something better. And, and I think the more people that abide by the status quo, the more they perpetuate the status quo. And I think it takes courage to step out. And frankly, I think it's where most People start, you know, they get kind of tricked into registering as a Democrat or a Republican because their mom or their dad was or because they think their vote won't matter. And I think that there's legitimate concern around that. We have to make sure, especially with regard to open primaries, that independents do have an equal vote. When we don't have an equal vote, we are, we are disenfranchised. We are not equal Americans. And that's a very, very core issue. And I think it takes momentum. And I think, I do think we're near a breaking point where if, if, if someone like Don Bacon, one member of Congress leaves, and I will use Jared Goldin on the other side, the congressman from Maine. I think if those two guys broke free and said, you know what? We're going to create a pack. We're both going to leave our parties and not join any other party. Just be independent, unaffiliated, and let the folks know who are 45% of the country, that we're with you.
- [30:45]
Joe Walsh
And we.
- [30:45]
Paul Rykoff
And we stand with you. And we want to make the parties come to us instead of going to them. And I really do believe this, Joe. I think that's the future. Somebody like David Jolly, who just announced he's running in Florida, he could have gone as an independent, he could have gone as an Independent, but he went as a Democrat. And I think over time, yeah, he'll get more money in the beginning, he'll get more media, and that's the easy compromise. But he won't win, and he won't if he had the same amount of money. And here's the question, right? If you run and you have the same amount of money, same amount of ballot access, same amount of media, would you still be a Democrat? And the answer for most people, if they're being honest, is no.
- [31:22]
Joe Walsh
If I were going to run for office and I knew I could raise the money and have the ballot access, I'd probably run as an independent because that's where I am now. Jolly, I don't know. By the way, I think there's an independent who's running for governor of Florida, too. Not quite sure. Paul, you nailed it, though. It's both parties suck. And I say that as a New Democrat. It's just, I think one party's suckiness is an existential threat to democracy and the rule of law. The other party's suckiness is they're just bad on a bunch of issues. And so I look at that imbalance and I say, I gotta defeat that thing. I Want your world. And again, Paul, I might have made a mistake. I want your world. I just have to defeat this. This monster right now.
- [32:10]
Paul Rykoff
I respect that. And I respect that. You gotta, you know, you gotta put your chips somewhere. And I want to come back to this and keep checking in with you and see, you know, how it's going.
- [32:18]
Joe Walsh
Because by you, like my therapist, you're.
- [32:20]
Paul Rykoff
Like, this is good for me.
- [32:22]
Joe Walsh
This is good.
- [32:23]
Paul Rykoff
Well, we're all going through therapy together here. I mean, this is like group therapy. But I think the reality is if you. And we have to. We have to make this more of a cultural moment. I've talked about this with John Opdyke and others. We have to celebrate people when they declare their independence. Because the truth is, if you leave the Republican Party and you go to the Democratic Party, they love you. They'll put you at the dnc, right? You'll be up there with Kinzinger, and they'll celebrate you. And you'll have lots of speaking engagements and you'll be able to go on television if you say, hey, I'm leaving and I'm going to be an Independent. There's no welcome wagon, right? There's. There's no conference schedule. There's no team of consultants. And this is where we have to build. We really have to build for durability and for the long term. Because this is where I think the core of America is. It's where we started. It's what George Washington intended. And it's really where the future is the future.
- [33:11]
Joe Walsh
Paul, I agree with everything you're saying. So let me put a hypothetical in front of you. This is such a fun conversation. Like, hypothetically, say I ran for president as an independent in 28. What I would wrestle with is I want an Independent to be elected president in 28. But I got to balance that with, if I ran for president as an Independent and I had money and resources, would I help the Republican get elected? And, oh, my God, if I did that, a JD Vance or another fucking fascist, I don't know that I could live with myself, Paul. That's what I struggle with.
- [33:49]
Paul Rykoff
I love this, and I think it's really important because I think it perpetuates the false narrative that independence is spoilers. Let me. Let me ask you to consider this. Let's say it's not Joe Walsh. Let's say it's the Rock. Let's say it's the Rock, and the Rock wants to run for president. And the Rock can raise unlimited money. The Rock can pick a running mate of their choosing, whoever he wants to pick, he will have no problem getting attention, getting grassroots support. And he can win, right? He could beat the Democrat if it's.
- [34:17]
Joe Walsh
Jdm ballot access with the Electoral College.
- [34:20]
Paul Rykoff
And that's the thing. Here's the thing. It is an issue of resources, right? Ross Perot is an example. You have to find a way to ballot access. But if you raise enough money and you have enough support, you can get ballot access. That's why only, you know. For the most part, independents like Mike Bloomberg or others have been viable because they've had to be able to compensate for the lack of ballot access, the lack of fundraising, the lack of machinery. When independent candidates run, they often go to ActBlue or the Republican backend website. Because if you just use an A dot, which I will use as an example, you're not immediately plugged into the Democratic donor base. So we've got to create that infrastructure, but we've also, most importantly, got to get great candidates. I use this other example all the time. People talk about Texas, right? Jasmine Crockett's running in Texas. What about if Matthew McConaughey ran? If Matthew McConaughey ran tomorrow, he would be immediately viable. If Mark Cuban ran tomorrow, he would be immediately viable. And I give you those examples because celebrity and, or money can, can. Can compensate and, and, and. And be a lever against what you lack in party.
- [35:27]
Joe Walsh
Agreed.
- [35:28]
Paul Rykoff
One of those people, right? Imagine a world where the Rock and Matthew McConaughey and Mark Cuban and Admiral McRaven and any other number of people. Oprah, right? Oprah said she's independent. They all jump in and say, you know what? We're going to get together and create a couple of independents and show people you don't have to pick both parties. That is possible in 2028, right? If you have J.D. vance against Gavin Newsome, right? Pick any number of people who could jump in, from Admiral McRaven to the Rock, who could totally not only be. Be exciting, but be viable as a winner.
- [36:04]
Joe Walsh
I agree with all of that. If you had such a big name that was so well resourced, you'd take the whole spoiler thing off the table. And Paul, I'd jump in there with you to support that. But it would have to be that big of a person. A Rock, a Tom Hanks, something like that. And by the way, don't forget. I know you don't. I'm talking to our audience. Donald Trump didn't fucking belong to a party. Bernie Sanders is an independent. The two most Popular politicians of this era, our independence.
- [36:39]
Paul Rykoff
So let's dig deeper on Trump and why he's not really a Republican in a second. But I want to remind people that this has happened before. Governor Jesse Ventura two decades ago won as an independent governor of Minnesota. And even more recently we've had him on this show. Yemi Mobilade 1 is the mayor of Colorado Springs. Tim Kelly won as the mayor of Chattanooga. Those are independents right now holding office. I saw Travis Endicott this weekend when I was in California. Travis Endicott is now the mayor of Ridgecrest. California independent veterans especially are viable. I want to get to more of that and remind everybody tomorrow. We got the proof. We got Jesse Ventura coming back on this show tomorrow. But I want to get to what I think is a really important top topic with you, Jeff. You are a, a longtime conservative. You were a standard bearer for the gop. You served in Congress in the gop. You support Second Amendment gun rights. You have been an outspoken advocate for the Second Amendment. Trump said openly that, that Alex Preddy shouldn't have had a gun, a gun that he was legally authorized to carry. And I think this is an under appreciated component of the Alex Preddy shooting that is reverberating against people who don't just suck up the right wing Trumpism talking points. People who are objective, especially independents, are deeply concerned about ICE and their lack of warrants, their lack of lawlessness, abide by the law and the Second Amendment component. I want to ask you to talk about that specifically because Trump has never been a strong Second Amendment advocate. He's never really been a conservative on gun rights. And I think this reveals what's truly in there, which is Trump's about Trump and Trump's about power. He's not about respecting anybody's rights. But can you talk, Joe, specifically about this moment for the Second Amendment and for gun owners?
- [38:35]
Joe Walsh
You're so right, Paul. Trump's just an empty vessel. He's got no core philosophy but Trump. Add it to the list. This attack on the Second Amendment since Preddy's death. Just add it to the list, Paul. I'm a Tea Party guy at heart. The Tea Party became maga and that's when I got off the train. But the Tea Party used to believe in states rights, gone. The Tea Party used to believe in free speech gone. The free market gone. The Tea Party was scared to death of a tyrant in. I can remember me and Jim Jordan when we were best buddies. If Barack Obama even thought about grabbing a pen to do an executive Order. We screamed. That's now gone. Because now he's the very thing. He is a tyrant. Remember this, Paul, in the Tea Party days, we marched and protested against Jack booted thugs and now they're on our streets and my former party supports them. And then, so this second Amendment thing, same thing, right? It's like that belief, that principle now off the table out of adoration to this guy. I said, you've said, if Barack Obama said a tenth of what Trump said two days ago, what the fuck, right? Fox News would be going crazy. Hannity would have a fucking heart attack on air. He'd be so worked up. My people would be marching with those don't tread on me flags. Impeachment proceedings would begin. Add it to the list of every principle they've abandoned when they became maga.
- [40:12]
Paul Rykoff
I think as we look for opportunities to defend our democracy, you have to look for pivot points, places where you can slow Trump down, where you can expand the folks who wanna put the Constitution above his power. And I think this second Amendment animating point around Preddy is very, very important. Right? Because even the way he said, he said, oh, you know, he had a couple of clips. Everybody who carries a gun has a couple of clips, right? And you're allowed to do that. And in most states there is a carry law, right? I mean, you can carry guns basically everywhere in America with some exceptions. So I think that this is an opportunity to really elevate this component of the attack on one of the most animating elements of our politics. Right. It's like abortions, abortion, guns, you know, trans rights. These are the things that really, really are inflection points. So.
- [41:04]
Joe Walsh
Well, I can tell you, Paulie, Paul, my friend, I can tell you as somebody who comes from maga, I engage with hundreds of MAGA people every day. I can tell you that they're really defensive about this and some are confused and some are pissed off. They're generally staying to Trump's defense, but there's something there to pick at. It's analogous to me, Paul, of the Epstein thing. The right wing base was fucking A. The Epstein files are going to be the mother of all deep state scandals. And then Trump pulled the rug at him from that. Trump's going to have a political hit on that as well. But I think you're right about this one too.
- [41:47]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, I just, you know, I've criticized the Democrats a lot and I think that is totally warranted. I mean, Jeffrey Schumer, you know, my home senator of Kirsten Gillibrand's been invisible. I don't even know where she is. I never see her and I live in this state. Right. But I think there are really points that hurt Trump and slow him down. Epstein is like kryptonite, right? The gun issue is kryptonite and so is regime change. They're openly saying, we want regime change in Venezuela, we want regime change in Cuba, we want regime change in Iran. Tulsi Gabbard would stand on the presidential debate stage and say, no more regime change wars. That was the mantra, Right? Because they know that conservatives don't want America to be the policeman. But now we are doing that. So can you touch on that piece in particular where they have now pulled the switcheroo Rubio saying, we want regime change. We will use military force to achieve it and there's no stopping us anywhere from Greenland to Iran to Venezuela. And how. I think conservatives especially are pushing back on that.
- [42:51]
Joe Walsh
Most of the base sadly has bought into what Trump's done in Venezuela and they defend it. The brilliant fucking businessman gonna reap huge benefits stealing their oil. And Joe, what he meant was America. It's this whole hemisphere, it's ours. Make the whole hemisphere great. A lot of the base has bought into it, but you nailed it, Paul. A lot of the Senate conservatives, they don't like this. And the whole talk about Greenland really pisses off the establishment Republican Party. Trump's even had to walk that back a little bit. But Paul, look, look, this is all going to have an impact. You say it, I say it, everybody says it. It's a cult. My former party is a cult. And every day or week we get evidence of that. But as long as the other party, my new party has so many fucked up issues, people. Every two or four years, here you go, Mr. Independent. They got a choice and they knowingly chose an asshole. And even a lot of his baseball. They knowingly chose in 24 a guy they knew wasn't always gonna be straight with them. Cause the fucking Democrats are horrible. So unless the Democrats can produce something better, maga's still gonna be strong.
- [44:08]
Paul Rykoff
Yeah, yeah. I was gonna have, you know, the guns issue be below the radar, but I do think, given the way it's unfolding, it needed to be our top topic. Cause it's not anyone else's top topic strategically. But I do think it's really important do want to go below the radar. And I don't think it will be below the radar. But here is what I want to focus on with you. The new Alex Preddy video is Important, because I'm sure it's one of any number of Alex Preddy videos that may come out. Right. As they slowly try to trickle away at his character and impugn his character in the same way they did with Renee Goode. Pretty. But people are losing sight of the plot. Right. And the most important thing is that incident where he was shot and killed, I would argue murdered. Unlawfully killed by two agents who have still not yet been identified in public. So let me ask you to react to this latest video and what I think is below the radar, which is it's a part of a character assassination plan and it's something they've been executing all the way back to Fauci. It was Fauci and then it was General Milley and then it's Senator Mark Kelly. Then it's Renee Good. Now it's Alex Preddy. It's a thousand paper cuts. It's just putting that doubt out there and feeding also the right wing base with fuel. And a video like that with Preddy kicking the tail light is, is the goal is to make more people see that that video than saw the actual shooting and get you not to believe that what you saw, but your reaction to, to this and, and the attacks.
- [45:41]
Joe Walsh
On his character, you're spot on. And in fact, that's what I talked about on CNN last night. I don't remember. And I think you, I, I watched you on cnn, Paul, as well. Again. Look, look, the bottom line has zero to do with the fact that Preddy was publicly executed by seven border patrol agents who had him pinned down to the ground, fucking disarmed and they shot him 10 times, end story. We all saw that. But you're right. Trump's got to rally the base. And so you have to go after Preddy's character. And they're going to do this and they're going to use it. Because Paul Trump's got a big, big, big fucking problem. He's staring at a blue tsunami. I think it's all part of a plan. He wants to fuck with the elections. He wants to cheat. He wants to fuck. What the hell is Tulsi Gabbard doing down at a Georgia election facility? This is all part of the plan. He wants to cancel them if he can, whatever. And part so. But he's got to get his base excited. Trump. Last night Paul retweeted somebody who posted the new Preddy video and called Pretty a domestic terrorist again. And Trump retweeted that so that that description now will be back out.
- [46:56]
Paul Rykoff
So because you're here. I want to ask you about this specifically. We've talked a lot in this show about the threat of the Insurrection Act. He continues to call him a domestic terrorist because it folds into that plan, which is to try to invoke the Insurrection act, which would be the mechanism to disrupt and potentially shut down elections in the fall, which is the real 5 meter target for Trump is the elections in the fall. So whatever he can do to disrupt or slow them down, he said it openly, he's telegraphing his punches. But yesterday, the Freedom Caucus issued a statement, I don't know if you saw this, Joe, where they endorsed his use of the Insurrection Act. And this is where I want people to remember. He is on plan. He's all gas, no brakes, they're not stopping him. And the 11th Airborne Corps in Alaska is still on standby to go to Minneapolis. And here's what he could do, Joe, right? He could pull ICE back and he could push in more federalized National Guard troops who are more popular. He could send in the active duty, who is immediately going to be more respected and more popular. So he can toggle. He can pull back in Minneapolis, go forward in Portland, pull back in Minneapolis, go forward in Phoenix, pull back in Phoenix, go forward in la. He can do this all the way through, you know, the next three years. And I think they do understand that ICE is extremely unpopular now. They may have overplayed their hand, but they have other cards to play. And that includes National Guard troops from red states like they've done before, and it includes the active duty. So can you talk specifically about the Freedom Caucus openly saying they're okay with him using the Insurrection act in Minneapolis?
- [48:31]
Joe Walsh
The Freedom Caucus, Paul, a group that I helped to form, and now they're full on anti freedom. They're full on MAGA again. Add that to the list. Let's put some truth out there. Donald Trump wants violence. Donald Trump is glad that Alex Preddy was shot and killed. Donald Trump is glad that Renee Goode was shot and killed. I mean, that I think Donald Trump is evil. I mean, what I'm saying, because Donald Trump's next hope, Paul, is that some crazy bad person takes a shot at a Border Patrol agent or an ICE agent. That's Trump's wet dream. Because then Trump, a Trump can then change the whole political dynamic and try to get the American people back with him. He's hoping and praying somebody takes out a nice agent or a Border Patrol agent and then that just walks him down his step of Insurrection act chaos. Oh, we gotta cancel the midterms. But Paul, I would never say that about any other public figure. That's what Donald Trump wants. That's what he's trying to create.
- [49:49]
Paul Rykoff
Well, he hasn't said otherwise. He doesn't say he feels bad for Alex Preddy. He doesn't say he's sorry that Renee Goode was killed. He doesn't say otherwise. So you have to take him at his word. And I think it's also important to see what they do. When the, the, the, the protest happened inside the church in Minneapolis, what'd they do? They sent J.D. vance down to that church to protect that church. They are hoping for, I think, a radical action which is entirely possible from a lone wolf or from an extremist on the left or any number of people. It could be a foreign actor who decides to blow up a church or send in a pipe bomb or do any number of things that have already happened here in America. Right. The pipe. Everybody forgets that a pipe bomber was arrested or sending pipe bombs outside the rnc, dnc. Any of those things he can use as a validation to invoke the Insurrection act in the same way he could use any number of things to strike Venezuela. Right.
- [50:43]
Joe Walsh
And by the way, it takes the courts. Once he invokes the Insurrection act, it takes the courts a while to catch up. So it would be in effect. But yeah, Paul, I mean, the takeaway, the point is that every American who's aware should be aware of. He's the one inciting violence. He's hoping for violence. Because to carry out the plan you just articulated very well.
- [51:10]
Paul Rykoff
And even if you don't want to accept the second part, accept the first part. Because he's not saying he's sorry Ilhan Omar was attacked. He's encouraging the atmosphere of hostility and attack and ferocity. He is an encouraging, what I continue to call the command climate and ice is a reflection of that. And there are circuit breakers. And I think the active duty military can be one of those circuit breakers. I think Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Dan Kane can be that circuit breaker. I think our National Guardsmen can be that circuit breaker. And they're going to have to be right now. And the crossing point will be if he tries to invoke the Insurrection act and how that is implemented. So we could go into this for a long time, but I think, especially.
- [51:52]
Joe Walsh
Having you here, one quick point I'll make, please. I'm a Democrat. Fucking A. I wish Democrats talked like you and I are talking right now. My biggest Criticism of my new party is they just can't meet this moment. Everything you and I are saying right now, this is how most Americans who oppose him feel. I wish politicians would speak to this.
- [52:13]
Paul Rykoff
Well, if they did, they would be independents. 45% of the country would be all right. I think independents are always something good. This conversation has been something good. And I want to close. I'm glad I've got you here now that we're daily with a lot of people's favorite segment, a segment that I will remind people. A lot of people love the song around this segment. Chris Rosenthal, our brilliant producer and creative genius, created that song. We'll put it up on our YouTube page when we can. Maybe we'll put it on a Spotify. But I want to give Chris props. So here it is. Something good.
- [52:46]
Joe Walsh
Something good.
- [52:50]
Paul Rykoff
All right, so you just heard that pop. That means it's something good. I'm going to go first, then Joe. I'm going to start with a man who is always in defense of our democracy. The great and powerful Bruce Springsteen has spoken. He has answered this moment. He is continuing to lead by example. He is a tremendous patriot. He would have beat Mikey Sherrill if he ran for governor of New Jersey. But now he may need to run for president. And if he did as an independent, he'd beat all of them. But he has a new song out called Streets of Minneapolis, and I want to read what Springsteen wrote, but it's called the Streets of Minneapolis. And let me give you the intro. He posted this and said, I wrote this song on Saturday, recorded it yesterday and released it to you today in response to the state terror being visited on the city of Minneapolis. It's dedicated to the people of Minneapolis, our innocent immigrant neighbors, and in memory of Alex Preddy and Renee Goode, Stay free, Bruce Springsteen. I get goosebumps, right? I get teary eyed. And the lyrics are incredible. And it ends with saying, on the streets of Minneapolis, we'll remember the names of those who died on the streets of Minneapolis. And then he says, ice out, ice out, ice out. Everybody's been playing Ohio by Neil Young this week, right? For dead in Ohio. If you know, especially your generation, right, Everybody knows Ohio. This can be the Ohio of that moment. And the music is so important and powerful. And most importantly, I think Bruce Springsteen is challenging creatives all across the world to respond to this moment. He's giving them permission and he's showing that it will be popular, right? And that you can even make money doing it. I don't think That's Springsteen's intention. I want to shout out Jesse Wells as well, who has been an incredible artist, the great songwriter. I hope he comes on this show. If you haven't heard his song about ice, it's been incredible. And there's news related. Jesse Wells is going to be touring with Dave Matthews, which is going to elevate Jesse Wells. Dave Matthews, another great, outspoken person, but Bruce Springsteen is. Is a tremendous patriot, and for me especially, he's something good. All right, Joe, what do you got? What's something good?
- [54:55]
Joe Walsh
It's related, Paul. My, my. Something good is the people of Minnesota and Minneapolis. Again, the headline is our federal government declared war on an American city. I really believe that's what they did. They parachuted 4,000 federal agents into that city. The people of Minneapolis and Minnesota reacted, resisted, and are fighting back. That's an awesome, awesome thing. And to me, to me, that's always the most positive aspect of what's going on here. Trump's the very worst of us, and because he's putting that in our face every day, we're seeing a lot of good in how people react to it.
- [55:45]
Paul Rykoff
I love it. Joe, I think you. You know, I want to give you credit for being courageous. And it's hard to be first, to be early, and to go from the Freedom Caucus and the Tea Party to declaring your independence years ago was a big thing. I know you got a lot of threats. People will never know how many death threats you and your family got, how much harassment you guys got, how much you continue to get, and you continue to be outspoken. And I think that Trump is like Godzilla, man. Anybody who's trying to slow down Godzilla, I don't care what party affiliation you have. I'd prefer that people are independent so we can create, you know, a lasting infrastructure here. But in the meantime, we're all in the same fight, brother. And I appreciate your voice and your candor and just the fact that you're out there throwing punches every day, man. You're. You're a true American patriot, and I appreciate you.
- [56:29]
Joe Walsh
Hey, Paul, right back at you. Because you do the same damn thing every day. Thank you, my friend.
- [56:33]
Paul Rykoff
All right, next time, maybe we'll. My voice will sound better, you'll feel better, and we can get a beer somewhere.
- [56:40]
Joe Walsh
Thanks, Boss.
- [56:41]
Paul Rykoff
Let's go to a Springsteen concert. What do you say? Love would love that, right? All right, all right, all right. Look for that. Coming up this summer, Joe and I will be on tour with Springsteen. And just to circle back on something, guys, I was on TV yesterday, if you didn't see my conversation on News Nation, it was nuts. I may share it with you as a special episode, but it was one of those episodes where I was arguing with a propagandist who said that Venezuela was cool and ice is cool and regime change is cool and the economy is going to save Trump. It was an upside down moment. But I will continue to be on News Nation every Wednesday. I was on cnn, which was a really smart conversation with Gretchen Carlson. Yeah, I got to have my kids there. And I just want to say, Aaron Burnett, if folks don't know one of the nicest people in television. Right. And she's awesome. So I want to encourage you to keep a lookout for that. Big week will finish tomorrow with Jesse Ventura. He will be here for football Friday. The great Jesse the Body Ventura will be here. You don't want to miss it. Let your friends know. Let everybody know. Let him know. We're daily now. We hit number 36 on the charts this month and follow us everywhere. Hit subscribe right now on YouTube. Find us on YouTube. Watch us over there. You can see us in the flesh and you can share it far and wide. We're of course on Apple podcasts where you should subscribe. We'll have more surprises and quick response pods. America's divided, but we had independent Americans. And I am trying to change that to add light, to contrast the heat. So if you're among the now 45% of Americans who are independent, especially or if you're independent, curious like Joe or any other folks out there, this is your show. Because our independent movement is hope for the future. Country over party, people over politics, light over heat. Just like Bruce Springsteen is bringing. We are growing our movement and the hope that is the oxygen of democracy. The hope you felt from that Bruce Springsteen song, the hope you feel from Joe Walsh and I hope the hope that you get from me. If you enjoyed this episode with Joe, share it far and wide and invite five people to declare their independence and stay vigilant, my friend, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And no, you're not alone in your vigilance. We're all vigilant. We're all in this together, more and more by the day now, including in a big way, the Boss, Bruce Springsteen. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for tuning in to independent Americans Tomorrow. Jesse the Body Ventura is coming, the original independent American or the latest independent American veteran who won and shows that we can win as well. So come back tomorrow for Jesse Ventura. Until then, stay warm and stay vigilant.
- [59:07]
Joe Walsh
America tells me the left and right are dreams for those without a clue and when you wait it's time to.
- [59:16]
Paul Rykoff
Grow and it's not cool to believe in school but if I can say one thing I've seen the children of the revolution and the good trouble they.
- [59:23]
Joe Walsh
Can bring he says the red and.
- [59:25]
Paul Rykoff
Blue identity dependent is an attitude an.
- [59:30]
Joe Walsh
Island in the sea of rhetoric and I can.
- [59:37]
Paul Rykoff
And when you wait it's time to grow Power by Righteous Media.