Podcast Summary: Independent Americans with Paul Rieckhoff

Episode: "What City Will Trump, ICE, Noem Target Next? with Ruth Ben-Ghiat"

Date: January 13, 2026

Overview of Episode

In this pressing episode, host Paul Rieckhoff welcomes historian and noted authoritarianism expert Ruth Ben-Ghiat. The conversation tackles an America gripped by escalating domestic crackdowns and the normalization of military-grade enforcement, especially through ICE under Donald Trump's administration. With Minnesota at the epicenter, the episode explores authoritarian strategies, the implications for democracy, the role of propaganda, and what civic and political leaders—as well as regular Americans—can do to respond. Ruth offers a clarion warning along with rare hope and practical steps for vigilance and resistance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: America in Crisis (00:30-09:49)

• Paul outlines a week of tumult: ICE operations drive legal and political pushback in Minneapolis and Illinois, protests erupt abroad, and Trump escalates foreign and domestic actions unconstrained by law or Congress.
• Notable political moves: Mayor Jacob Fry’s rising profile, Amy Klobuchar’s possible gubernatorial run, Jesse Ventura considering another campaign, and new independent candidate Scott Morris in South Dakota.
• Rise of Independents: Gallup poll finds a record 45% of Americans now identify as independent—Rieckhoff highlights this as both validation and a pivotal shift in U.S. politics.
• Sports moment: Uplifting news amid the chaos, with a nod to the positive impact of sports figures.

2. Welcome & Ruth Ben-Ghiat on Living Through Authoritarianism (09:49-12:21)

• Ruth Ben-Ghiat, grounded in New York: Expresses determination:

  "It's very interesting having studied authoritarianism and military coups and stuff like that for years and living in the United States, plan to stay in the United States. Seems like I want to be an on-site witness and a participant in restoring our democratic rights." (10:01)

• She shares heightened personal vigilance and draws from her family’s history:

  "My father was an Israeli paratrooper... I was trained to shoot and be able to change my own tire... I've always been... aware of my surroundings... when you see large black vans, if you see masked goons walking around... you think about things differently and this is where we are." (10:56)

3. ICE in Minneapolis and the Anatomy of Authoritarian Tactics (12:21-14:58)

• Rieckhoff describes the personal transformation of seeing ICE use military-style tactics against civilians.
• Ruth’s Authoritarian Frame:

  "ICE has been socialized to not only brutal practices, but the whole mentality is now more like a police state... The masks embolden ICE agents by giving them anonymity to be their worst selves... It's waging economic warfare, psychological warfare, and direct physical terror. This is... a domestic forever war being waged on the American people." (13:06)

4. The “Forever War,” Lawlessness, and Operation Naming (14:58-18:18)

• Rieckhoff and Ben-Ghiat note the militarized language and normalization of armed domestic deployments.
• Ruth connects domestic lawlessness with imperial actions abroad:

  "Behaving in a marauding imperialist fashion... that's the big picture. And there's a relation between this international behavior, the allying with autocrats, and trying to destroy our democracy." (16:58)

5. What Should Be Done? Values, Messaging & Reaching People (18:18-21:31)

• On the Response:

  "A portion of the country... has unfortunately been indoctrinated and Trump is one of the most effective propagandists in history... It's very important for people who are still in the MAGA world... that we can talk to these people... you can do things as an individual." (18:18)

• She urges Democrats (and all citizens) to anchor politics in values:

  "We have to have a values-led politics, and the Democrats have to be much stronger with stressing decency, integrity, professionalism, all the things that the Trump administration is throwing out the window." (20:19)

• Rieckhoff underscores:

  "If America was a religion, veterans would be the clergy. And we're in a unique point to kind of challenge Hegseth and others." (20:19)

6. Insurrection Act, Martial Law, and the Next Target City (21:31-24:57)

• Ruth warns of the potential invocation of martial law:

  "There's... a trajectory of something that I call autocratic backfire, where they're making a lot of unforced errors... as the economy worsens and the incompetence is more manifest, there's gonna be a backlash... And that's when autocrats often become more repressive." (21:31)

• On possible next ICE/military crackdowns:

  "It could be Chicago... You cannot underestimate these petty, vindictive impulses where strong men go after people... Everything Trump does is to shore up his own insecurity... so Chicago, there's a history there too. And Pritzker’s not backing down..." (23:13)

7. Warning for Listeners & The Power of Nonviolence (24:57-26:48)

• Ruth issues a powerful warning:

  "We're really in the middle of a battle for the soul of America... I do think that the administration is engineering things to lead the population to despair. It's been extraordinary that all of the protests so far... have been nonviolent. That's very, very important." (25:11)

• She encourages outreach to those in military/national security circles:

  "Everyone has something they can do... try and speak to [pro-Trump military contacts] in a nonjudgmental way. Won't be just one conversation, but I think that's important to do and we can all do something." (25:11)

8. "Something Good" – Stories of Hope (27:07-31:11)

• Paul’s Good News (27:12): Story of Captain April McClung, an Air National Guard medical officer who delivered a baby outside a hospital, symbolizing how people in uniform can act as helpers and uphold hope and kindness.
• Ruth’s Good News (28:50):
  She recounts being banned from delivering the Bancroft Lecture at the Naval Academy due to political pressure but found continued support from Naval Academy alumni:

  "There's been a continuous outpouring, even a year later, of support by Naval Academy alumni and others who don't like what's happening to the lowering of moral standards and professionalism... and that... really heartens me." (28:50) "We should know that there are many people who don't agree with what is happening..." (28:50)

9. Final Notes and Takeaways

• Rieckhoff hails Ruth as "one of the most important voices in the country and in the world," emphasizing her courage and patriotism.
• He reiterates that the growth of independents is crucial for American democracy and that everyone should play a role in defending the nation’s core values.
• Closing reminder:

  "Hope is the oxygen of democracy. You see it in Ukraine, you see it in Iran, you see it here in America. And I'm going to keep shining a light on it... Stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom." (31:47+)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Rieckhoff on authoritarian drift:

  "ICE is giving all cops a bad name. I mean, cops know that better than anybody right now. Those of us who've been in the military have seen the shocking lack of discipline..." (20:19)

• Ben-Ghiat on the authoritarian playbook:

  "ICE has become one of these... state security forces... rewarding a culture of brutality. And it's quite authoritarian... It's economic warfare, psychological warfare, and direct physical terror." (13:06)

• Ben-Ghiat on pushing back:

  "Everyone has something they can do... If you know people who are in national security, military worlds, and they are still convinced by MAGA propaganda... try and speak to them in a nonjudgmental way." (25:11)

• On hope and goodness:

  "There are many people who don't agree with what is happening. And I've been trying to warn that if you're under an authoritarian, you will be asked to do things you didn't think you would have to do." (28:50)

Key Timestamps for Segment Reference

• 00:30 News roundup: ICE in Minnesota, political shifts, foreign events
• 09:49 Ruth Ben-Ghiat joins the show
• 13:06 Authoritarian analysis of ICE tactics
• 16:58 Connection between domestic & foreign authoritarianism
• 18:18 How Americans should respond; role of values and veterans
• 21:31 Martial law/Insurrection Act discussion
• 23:13 Predicting next cities/targets: Chicago, NY
• 25:11 Ruth’s warning: ongoing battle for America’s soul
• 27:12 “Something good” stories
• 28:50 Ruth on Naval Academy controversy & resulting solidarity
• 31:40 Episode wrap/Calls to action

Conclusion

This episode serves as a sobering warning and call to action against authoritarian drift both at home and abroad. Through Ruth Ben-Ghiat’s critical lens, listeners are urged to stay vigilant, reach out across divides, ground themselves in integrity and decency, and take action—however small—to safeguard democracy. Uplifting stories remind us that even amidst darkness, there are helpers and defenders committed to light over heat.