B (9:49)

Thank you. I'm really, really happy to Be here.

C (9:53)

You are the perfect guest for this moment. So much to get into. But let me start by asking you, where are you and how are you?

B (10:01)

I'm fine. I'm in New York City. I'm. I'm resolute. I feel really, it's very interesting having studied authoritarianism and military coups and stuff like that for years and living in the United States, plan to stay in the United States. Seems like I want to be an on site witness and a participant in restoring our democratic rights. So I guess we're all exhausted by all of this. But I'm also unbending.

C (10:30)

That's the spirit we need. You don't have a crystal ball. I don't imagine maybe you do, but you also don't have a failure of imagination. I'm also in New York City. Kristi Noem was in New York City. In the last few days, it feels different. Every time I hear a helicopter overhead, it just feels different in my heart. Do you have the same sort of feeling? I'm wondering, you know, because you, you study this, you, you're an expert, but also like on a personal level, when you see those sorts of things, does it feel different to you?

B (10:56)

Yeah, I'm more aware. My father was an Israeli paratrooper in his youth and I grew up in Los Angeles, but I was trained to shoot and be able to change my own tire on my car when I was 16 and all of that. So I've always been. He taught me defensive driving, which I've used before in North Carolina when I lived there. And so I'm always aware of my surroundings. But definitely when you see large black vans, if you see masked goons walking around, you know, they could be just pretenders or whoever, but you think about things differently and this is where we are. And, you know, when the Turkish graduate student at Rutgers was kidnapped off the street, that was one of the earliest cases. I not only felt terrible for her, but there was like a double layer, if you know, about authoritarianism, because vans coming and masked goons kidnapping people off the street is what they do in her native Turkey. And I don't know why she left Turkey, but she probably felt she would have more freedoms here to do her master's in teaching. And she had the same fate. So I think, when I see things happening, I think about how I know that this is what happens in authoritarian states.

C (12:21)

I dug deep into ice yesterday and I know personally what it's like to be a person carrying a gun and kicking in a door and terrorizing people. And to now, you know, see it flipped is something I never imagined seeing in America. But I think especially as veterans, especially as folks who've been on the other side, we have to call it out for what it is. And it seems deeply, it is deeply un American masked guys who are. Unidentified. Kicking indoors and ripping people out of cars and doing this incredibly egregious authoritarian shit. Can I ask you. I'm gonna go deeper on all of it, but your thoughts on what's happening in Minneapolis right now and how to fit that in the context of what is a larger strategy unfolding?

B (13:06)

Yeah. So my niche is that I truly try and look at things going on with an authoritarian framework. I'm not, I'm an anti authoritarian, but I understand how these, these leaders and these regimes operate. So really, ICE has been, they've been socialized to not only brutal practices, but the whole, the mentality is now more like a police state where there is no concept of peaceful assembly, of being a legal observer of monitor. We've all seen people get beaten up just for asking why. That's a classic authoritarian thing. And the masks, you know, parts of Russia, secret police wear masks. And of course the collectivos, paramilitary gangs in Venezuela. And the masks, of course, embolden ICE agents by giving them anonymity to be their worst selves. And so the ICE has become one of these, we call them state security forces in other countries that is rewarding a culture of brutality. And it's quite authoritarian. So I see that, um, I see that happening. And also this kind of flood the zone targeting of an entire city. And there are economic consequences for this. It's like the, the local Fox News station in Minneapolis, St. Paul and Minneapolis called it a ghost town. So restaurants and shops are closing. It's, it's waging economic warfare, psychological warfare, and direct physical terror. So this is like what you and I have been calling the forever war. It's a domestic forever war being waged on the American people. And that's how I see it.

C (14:58)

So, Ruth, I want to get into what I think is our top topic. I say if you're not angry, you're not paying attention. That's so much that's happening in America. Right. But let's focus on today's top topic. I think, and I've been saying this, the most important story in the world is that Trump can do anything he wants, but the most powerful military the world has ever seen, nothing is stopping him. And he views ICE as an extension of the military. I only ask this of Certain guests. But I want to ask you, what do you think the top topic is right now? What do you think is most important for folks to focus on in this moment?

B (15:29)

I think that I always try and give people the big picture and it's a shredding of rule of law at home. It's the waging of a forever war which will extend. You know, LA was the test case last June for kind of coordination and miniature among. You know, they had Marines battalion that served in the war on terror. And then this is the flood the zone. And I saw a post where Kristi Noem is, they're going to add air support. And the way they're talking about this, the way that they give names of operations, it's like, you know, and Trump campaigned on this and he said we're going to liberate American heartland, you know, as though it was Fallujah. Right. And so that's, that's the top story. But seeing it in a broader framework where these things are accompanied by a complete lawlessness in foreign policy, a shredding of rule at law at home and shredding of international law and behaving in a marauding imperialist fashion.

A (16:29)

If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know, having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

B (16:58)

Dura is a horrible dictator, but this kind of extraction to get the oil, this plundering, that's the big picture. And there's a relation between this international behavior, the allying with autocrats and trying to destroy our democracy.

C (17:14)

Ruth, you touched on the naming. I think what they called the operation in D.C. is Operation D.C. safe and Beautiful I think is what they've called it. Right. And it's clearly propaganda. And I've talked about how he's consolidating a propaganda machine around the media. He's trying to normalize domestic deployments. He's trying to put it in the guise of safety. But let me ask you, what do you think the response should be? I mean, nothing's stopping him. He's doing whatever he wants. Even if the courts rule against these deployments, I think he'll find ways around them. I think that's why he's amplifying ice because the National Guard deployments have been ruled unlawful. So it's kind of a switcheroo. And ICE is not accountable to the American people in terms of casualties. They're not as disciplined. He can move them in ways he can't move the military and the police force. But what do you think? The Democrats haven't even been able to slow him down. I think Rachel Maddow asked me this. What is the national response? What should I guess democratically elected leaders, whether in his own party or the other party be doing to stop it? And what should average Americans be doing to stop it?

B (18:18)

I think, and here's where your viewership, your audience is really important. A portion of the country, this is the way I see it. As a, as a authoritarian expert, a portion of the country has unfortunately been indoctrinated and Trump is one of the most effective propagandists in history. I mean the guy got 10 million or more, I think it was 30 million people to believe he won the 2020 election. And he did this. He didn't have a one party state like Hitler and Mussolini. He did this in an open society with opposition parties and media. And he still did it. And so it's very, I think it's very important for people who are still in the MAGA world and it's starting to shift, but to that we can talk to these people and it is actually independents and people with national security and military backgrounds who perhaps can reach these people. And, and, and that's really what a lot of democracy experts stress is that you can do things as an individual. You don't have to be protesting in the streets, although that's, that's non violent protest is really, really important and especially if it has electoral outcomes which it has did have in the past, the recent past of our country. So the Democrats, I think that they of course they have to get much stronger on their message discipline. That's been a real thing that the propaganda operation of the, of the Republicans has been able to take advantage of. And I think you have to make this about morals and integrity. That's one of your eyes, right? And I wrote a piece for my, I have a substack newsletter lucid and I cover military coups and things. I wrote a piece, I think in March about that we're living through a moral collapse and that we have to have a values led politics and the Democrats have to be much stronger with stressing decency, integrity, professionalism, all the things that the Trump administration is Throwing out the window.

C (20:19)

I think that's so important. I mean, this is why I think veterans especially are so key, and I think, in part why Mark Kelly's been so effective. Because we're talking about values, we're talking about professionalism, and ICE is giving all cops a bad name. I mean, cops know that better than anybody right now. And those of us who've been in the military have seen the shocking lack of discipline and the training and the lower of his standards. But we also, you know, see it in our feed with Kristi noemi ads and ICE bonuses of $50,000. But I think your values point is really important. I always repeat the line that someone told me, if America was a religion, veterans would be the clergy. And we're in a unique point to kind of challenge Hegseth and others. Let me ask you, if I can, to go with you to a topic we call below the radar. I just want to ask you straight up. Do you think he's going to invoke the Insurrection act or martial law? I mean, he obviously knows that free and fair elections would be hugely detrimental to his momentum. And he said that he thinks they'll impeach him and perhaps put him in jail. But I think this is one of those areas where folks have had a failure of imagination. Do you think that martial law and the Insurrection act are possible? Likely. How would you frame it?

B (21:31)

I think that there's. It's very interesting that he hasn't done it yet. And I also think that I am seeing a trajectory of something that I call autocratic backfire, where they're making a lot of unforced errors, the unpopularity is rising, or he's getting less popular. The whole Venezuela thing was done to shore up his, you know, his tanking popularity with Latinos and whatever they might do in Cuba. But as the economy worsens and the incompetence is more manifest, there's gonna be a backlash. And there has been in. And that's when autocrats often become more repressive. And so if he ever does invoke the Insurrection act, it would be to stop free and fair elections, because there's already this trajectory of Democrats starting to win or over perform outperform in places that have been very red. And that's very worrying to the gop. So that's when he would do it. If he thinks that because the autocrat mentality is that you do anything necessary to stay in office.

C (22:40)

Yeah, it's entirely. Sorry. It's entirely possible. I mean, he can manufacture a moment and label it as domestic terrorism, just like he did with, with Rachel. Good. We try to talk not just about what's happening now, but what's happening next. Ruth, you know, I've forced eyes on la. I'm glad you, you, you echo what I said about it being a test case. It, you know, it wasn't one off. It was a test case. The border was a test case. Minneapolis now is kind of maybe the first engagement zone. Where would you predict is next? Is it New York? Is it Chicago? Is it somewhere else? Where do you look to for the next flare up engagement potential?

B (23:13)

It could be Chicago. Because the other thing you learn from studying autocrats is that they have a boundless appetite for. They're vindictive and a boundless appetite for revenge on anyone they see as a rival. And I would have said New York, but in that very strange meeting in the Oval Office with Mamdani, Trump had like, the only expression of actual joy I've ever seen on his face. I've never seen it with his own kids. He seemed to be enchanted with Mamdani. So I, I'm putting a hold on that for the, for the moment. But Pritzker, who is wealthy, who has stood up to him, is tough talking. He hates him. And you cannot underestimate these petty, vindictive impulses where strong men go after people, men also, in this sense that they see as rivals. And everything Trump's Trump does is to shore up his own insecurity. That's why he puts his name on the Kennedy Center. That's a classic autocratic thing. All other people, he's, that's why he's obsessed with Obama, because Obama was popular and he must be the most popular. And that's why they built their personality cults. So Chicago, there's a history there, too. And Pritzker's not backing down, and so that's a place that could be next. And there we may see an escalation of domestic war tactics. And that's where, when I scroll through social media, things like happens to U two things catch my attention. And this gnome comment about developing air superiority, which. The very language she uses is the language of, of war. And so let's bookmark that to see what happens with that.

C (24:57)

I know you've got to go in a minute here, and I want to get to something good because I especially want to hear something good from you. But can I ask you, is there a warning you want to issue people something you haven't gotten to say in other media platforms or anything? You just think all Americans should know and think about now.

B (25:11)

I think that we're really in the middle of a battle for the soul of America, for the future of America. Every day I think about this quote. I found that when Trump was on Fox and friends in 2013, 2014, and he said that what you need to go back to when things were good is economic collapse, riots in the streets, and then you can intervene. And I don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but I do think that the administration is engineering things to lead the population to despair. It's been extraordinary that all of the protests so far, which have involved millions of people, have been nonviolent. That's very, very important. You know this very well. And that we haven't seen professional agitators able to do things. That's really, really positive. So I am very heartened by the numerous ways that people are pushing back. It was really important that the warriors coach. The people from the sports world started speaking out because elites often don't speak out. And it's grassroots and professionals who are able to do their work. So everyone has something they can do. And if you know people who are in national security military worlds, and they are still convinced by MAGA propaganda, I think it's really important to try and speak to them in a nonjudgmental way. Won't be just one conversation, but I think that's important to do and we can all do something.

C (26:48)

I'm so glad you mentioned the warriors coach, Steve Kerr. Cause I think that's a breakthrough moment. He's been such a clarion voice. He's trusted. It crosses over beyond politics. I wish he would run for office. I wore my Neil Young shirt today. Kind of to keep people rocking in the free world here in Iran and other places. Ruth, I can't leave without getting into something good.

B (27:07)

Something good, Something sweet. Feel the fire.

C (27:12)

I'm gonna tell a quick one and then come look. Thanks to ice. There's a lot of bad stories of people in uniforms doing bad things. And folks in D.C. who've been deployed have been in the grinder. I've got the opposite. I look for the helper's story. There was an Air National Guard medical officer who delivered a baby in a hospital parking lot on December 23. April McClung, a captain, was assigned outside the Walter Reed Medical Facility. And she was inside the hospital when a man rushed to the desk seeking help, explaining his wife was in labor in the car. He said the baby was coming. Immediately he came back and said the baby's coming. And McClung stepped forward. She jumped in and she said, I've been a nurse for 28 years, and I've also worked in emergency care. I knew if that mother had a little help, she would deliver the baby safely and keeping that baby warm would be critical. So she ran outside to help. At the curb, the mother was kneeling in the passenger seat. The baby was already crowning, and the family's toddler sat crying in a car seat. McClung calmly coached the mother to control her breathing. They delivered the baby even when the umbilical cord was wrapped around the neck. McClung advised the physician on how to safely reduce it. The baby was okay, the mother was okay. And she said, I knew I could do the delivery myself if I needed to. Emergency care is part of my required training. Over the many years, I've delivered many babies before doctors could arrive. She stepped in when no one else did. And that's what many of our folks in uniform are doing. And I'm going to ask so many of them to continue to do that. We're going to need them to do that, to hold the line for democracy. So that incident and Captain April McGlung is my something good. Ruth, over to you. We need something good about this time. What do you got? That's something good.

B (28:50)

So I was supposed to give last year's the Bancroft Lecture at the Naval Academy in October 2024. And it's a huge honor. And my father was a naval subcontractor. So I had, I was going to talk about how he immigrated to the States and found this community of professionals in the Navy. And then I now know that the Heritage foundation organized a campaign that ultimately involved more than two dozen Republican lawmakers to get me banned. Why? Because I was going to speak about Pinochet's Chile and how what happens to a military when it is asked to go against its oath. And the Chilean military, military in the 70s was before the coup in 1973 was seen as a kind of paragon of rectitude. And all these other countries in Latin America had military coups. And they were like, we're for democracy, we're for our oath. And then Pinochet came with a US Backed coup and everything changed. So I was going to talk about that. And they did a huge campaign to ban me. And it worked, threatening the Naval Academy with the hatchack. Because even though I wasn't going to talk about the US and this was October 2024, Trump wasn't in yet. That my person was suspect because I had a history of standing up for democracy and being a critic of Trump. So my good thing is that ever since that happened, I hear continuously from alumni of the Naval Academy and many people in the aftermath wanted me, wanted to rent boats for me to speak, to speak, to give my speech that I couldn't give, renting auditoriums for me. There's been a continuous outpouring, even a year later, of support by Naval Academy alumni and others who don't like what's happening to the lowering of moral standards and professionalism. And so every day I get some kind of message and that. That really heartens me. I think, and we should know that there are many people who don't agree with what is happening. And I've been trying to war that if you're under an authoritarian, you will be asked to do things you didn't think you would have to do.

C (31:11)

You have been incredibly courageous, patriotic, so important. I think you're one of the most important voices in the country and in the world. You've sacrificed tremendously to continue to speak truth to power and to defend all of us. And I just want to thank you for your courage, for your leadership, for your work. I hope everyone will follow you on substack. Read everything you write, and I hope you'll join us again soon. And in the meantime, thank you for all your leadership and for showing us all what true patriotism is all about.

B (31:40)

Thank you. And thanks to everybody who's watching for your service and your integrity.

C (31:47)

Thank you. The great professor Ruth Ben Guyot. Follow her everywhere. Thank you, ma'. Am. Stay vigilant. All right, independent Americans, there you have it. Ruth Ben Guyot, a brilliant voice, important voice. Check the show notes for links to her work where you can find out more information. And of course, if you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button right now. Help us grow this vigilant community. The folks who've been with us from the beginning, I call you the vigilant, the very vigilant, the most vigilant. Especially our Patreon members. Big shout out to you who've been helping us grow this show and bring important content like you heard today, extended conversations you don't hear anywhere else. If you like what you're hearing, please donate a couple bucks on Patreon. And most importantly, hit subscribe and spread the word. If you didn't check out yesterday's show on ICE and why, I think ICE agent Jonathan Ross, Kristi Noem, and ICE itself needs to be on trial. Go check it out. Of course, subscribe on all platforms. You can also get independent Americans merch and we're going to keep it coming daily. As you know, it's a critical week in America. It's like the playoffs in the NFL. Well, it is the playoffs in the NFL and every day is like the playoffs in America right now. Coming up later this week, I got one great guest that you're definitely gonna hear from, Sheriff Chris Swanson. If you don't know who he is. He was the sheriff of Genesee county and now he's running for governor of Michigan. He's been really strong on understanding ice, law enforcement and what's happening nationwide. We're gonna break down the latest on the brutal murder of Renee Goode and what's happening in Minneapolis and everywhere else. I did mention I spoke to Jesse Ventura. I did speak to him. I've invited him on the show. We're working to try to make it happen soon. Next week. I got an announcement for you for Friday football. It's a week away, a little more than a week away. Willie Geist is going to be back. One of our favorite returning guests will be back next Friday for Friday football. Stay tuned for that. More surprises and I will continue to give you quick response pods which have been downloaded at really high numbers. If something's breaking, I'll pop one in your subscription and you'll get that. So you got to subscribe to make sure you get the latest. And I'll keep it coming. Also, we're on all the social media platforms. Check them out if you haven't already. America's divided, but in independent Americans, I am working to change that, adding light to contrast the heat of all the other political content and all the other stuff out there, especially shut off the tv. Check us out and spread the word. If you're among the now 45% of Americans who are independent, that new poll is really important. It shows that we're growing. This is your show because our independent movement is the hope for the future, especially young people. 60% of new voters are unaffiliated, independent. If you know some young people who need this kind of information, like you heard from Ruth today, spread this show, country over party, people over politics, light over heat, challenging that status quo man and fueling a new movement that spans across our society and is spanning across Ukraine, spanning across Iran. Our movement is growing and hope, hope is the oxygen of democracy. You see it in Ukraine, you see it in Iran, you see it here in America. And I'm going to keep shining a light on it. I hope you enjoyed this episode with Route Ben Gia. If you did, share it far and wide and invite others to declare their independence from traditional media, from the parties, from the corporations. We are in this together and this is a place to be together and to fight back. Stay vigilant, my friends, because eternal vigilance is the price of freedom. And no, you're not alone in your vigilance. I hope you see that, especially this week. We're all vigilant and we're all in this together. As you saw from Ruth, who's been especially vigilant. I'm your host, Paul Rykoff. Thank you for tuning in to Independent Americans. Thank you for bearing with me as I continue to fight this flu. Don't let the bastards get you down. The bad news, the flu or the chaos. Don't let it get you down this week. Look out for each other. I'll see you tomorrow. And stay vigilant. America.

B (35:41)

Just.

C (35:58)

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A (36:03)

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