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Jason Thomas
A pulp MX Network production. A cerebral and experienced look into the racing action from the week that was. This is Industry Seating with Jason Thomas. Presented by Pirelli Tires, Guts Racing, Plum Creek Funding, Pro Blow, Wash Works, Connection, Bass Foundry, TL Speed Shop Concept, COD Design Company, Grandstone Boots and Fly Racing. Welcome to the Industry Seating podcast. My name is Jason Thomas and well, I tried. I told you guys I was going to get this podcast out on Sunday or Monday after Paris and well, as you can see, that didn't happen. But I do have a good excuse. I have been in Florida working on 2025. The whole team, from Ricky Carmichael to James Stewart to the NBC executives to Feld Entertainment crew to MX Sports, Carrie, Joe Coombs and Davey and everybody, everybody was in Florida this week working really hard to honestly just to make things better. In the end, if you just want to put it in a nutsh trying to make these shows better, make the, the sport better, figure out what works, what doesn't. That's really it, that's, that's the goal. There's a lot of, there are a lot of things that happen between here and there, right? Trying to brainstorm ideas, trying to figure out where the talent could be better, trying to figure out even stuff like formats like there, there was truly no, no, you know, like a bad idea, for lack of a better word. Stupid or dumb or whatever. That's, that's the time when we're supposed to brainstorm these things like concepts like should we be racing playoffs on Friday instead of Saturday to avoid college football? More races, less races, formats, timing, Triple crowns, like all that stuff, those meetings in the last week or so that went on, that's where this stuff is discussed. Now I'm sure that the powers that B have a lot of other meetings amongst themselves. They have like what's called a steering, steering crew, I think it's called of a bunch of the OEMs and a lot of heavy hitters in the industry all meet too. So I'm not saying that everything happens out of these meetings, but a lot is discussed and talked through and a lot of questions are posed and immediately sometimes you just say, well, this happens because of X, right? Like we can't do that because of this. And, and people are like, oh, okay, well I didn't know that. Now I get it and understand, right? So there's a lot of that that goes on and I just said right again, just shoot me in the face, cuz I got to stop saying that. But anyway, I want to thank the sponsors. I'M going to talk about all I'm talking about Paris. I'm going to talk about what happened this week. I'm going to talk about the Hayden Dean Warren thing talk about all that stuff. But before we do let's thank the sponsors of this podcast. Pirelli Tires been with me since day one. GUTS Racing Andy, Greg and his team are fantastic company. Great sponsors of mine. Very happy to that they've been there and I'm hop stick around for 2025 works connection Eric and the team have been there since day one as well and never yeah they've never wavered. A lot of these guys have just had my back through thick and thin. Covid doesn't matter so thank you to them. Concept coatings design company please check them out. Pro Glow Wash they there's there's some changes going on at Pro Gloss. We'll have more news that later. TL Speed Shop Jason Cobb they just had the Baja 1000 and it's that time of year like if you want to get away get to Ariz, drive a side by side and have some fun. Now that the temperatures are ideal, hit up TL Speed Shop. Go to tlspeed shop.com you can reach out to me and I'll give you the phone number. That's a really really great idea this type this time of year. So don't be afraid to reach out to them and see what kind of programs they have to offer. They can customize everything as well. And last but not least, fly racing. Thank you very much. Of course. Oh I didn't mention Grandstone boots. Grandstone boots on for another year again. Just got to agreement done there. Go to GrantstoneShoes.com and you can sort out exactly what you're wanting there. They have loafers, they have sneakers, they have boots, they have women's boots now which are really cool. So check out all the awesome things that they have they have going on over there too. So let's jump into this thing. What happened in Paris that was the, the big race of the weekend and everybody was kind of like wondering like ah, where would, where would all these guys swat in? You know we haven't seen them race in what a month and a half, you know and certainly in Superc has been a lot longer than that. But I, you know I'm torn on off season supercrosses because they're exciting. I do think you can learn things but it's very easy to fall into the trap of drawing conclusions from these off season races and the reason for that why you shouldn't fall into the trap of that is these riders are not ready yet. They, they're not done testing the motorcycle. They're not, they haven't gone through boot camp, and oftentimes they're just starting boot camp. The finished product hasn't been built yet. You know, they're, they're in the molding process of what they're going to look like in 2025. And if anything, a lot of trainers and teams look at it as a big distraction because it interrupts that process. Right. And I guess I just said right again. I guess you have to determine on your own if the money is worth it to you. Getting some gate drops, getting. I don't know. I'm sure these gu. Like to go to Paris, like it's a great race and their wives get to go to Paris. And it's, I'm sure, you know, before and after the race. It's, it's a romantic getaway and a year that is full of just work all the time and racing and so much seriousness. It gives them an opportunity to get away. And yes, they're going to race some while they're there, but they make a ton of money, a ton of money, so they can actually enjoy themselves, go to the nicest dinners in town, do some touristy stuff, and still accomplish some of the goals that they set out for the offseason. So I, I think it makes a lot of sense. Now, the question is, for a lot of these riders, how much is too much or how much is too little? And, and I really think that two races is the right answer. And it's not a hard and fast rule. But the more I've thought about it, the more I think that two races, maybe three, definitely not more than three, makes a lot of sense because you can go in, you can try some new settings at the first one. If that doesn't work, you know, let's, let's say Jet and Cooper, we, for instance, they're doing Paris and then they're going down to Melbourne after Thanksgiving for Aus X Open. Now what they were able to do is go race Paris, make a grip of money, sort out what's going on with the bike, you know. And for the Warren's camp, they're trying to figure this 20, 25 bike out in Supercross. They're not very happy with it. To be 100% transparent. I've heard from many of them, many of not many of them. I've heard many times from many different, that they are not thrilled with this 20, 25 chassis in Supercross. So they've got some work to do on that front to sort that out. So this gives them a chance to work through some settings. You know, Hunter, you could watch Hunter and he didn't look comfortable at all. Like he went backwards every single time. He didn't have any real pace, he didn't have any ability to charge. And he is a guy that if things aren't right, you're not going to get his best stuff. Like, he cannot overcome the challenges or like if things aren't exact where they need to be, you're going to see that reflected in his riding. I personally believe that a guy like Jet, he will find a way to make it work. He's just got so much talent on tap that he can utilize something where he's really good or protect against places that the bike's not very good and then really lean into the areas where he can make the bike do the things he wants to do. And that's often good enough to win. And I think that's what you saw in Paris, if you saw him on press day, almost crash, crashes brains out in the whoops. It's because the bike, they're, they're still struggling. They're not in a place where they trust the bike 100 yet. So this gives them an opportunity. Same for Webb, same for Malcolm, same for Franis, same for whoever. They wouldn't try things good, bad and different come home. And Webb's been riding all week this week. Make changes, apply what you learned and make adjustments. And then you fly down to Australia, which is a brutal trip, right? If you headed again, it's a brutal trip. If you're flying from. For Webb, he'll fly from Tallahassee to Atlanta, Atlanta to la, LA to Melbourne. It's not awesome. That is not a very fun trip. Like, yes, he will fly first class and it's pretty great. You have a bed. But having done that trip, you know, I've flown around the world many, many, many, many times. You look forward to it, but it's still grueling. And what you put your body through and, and the lack of training and continuity in your program and you definitely take a step back versus staying at home and just putting in laps, staying in your routine, riding your bicycle, sleeping your eight hours, you're giving up something. So the key to it is that making sure that the juice is worth the squeeze. So financially, of course it is. You know, I think jet got 200k for Paris. I'm sure he's getting around the same for AUSX Open. Tomac and Roczen are getting 250k per race. From what I have been told from sources I trust, that's, that's a ballpark range for what they're making for World Supercross rounds. For Webb, I think he's 100k for these races. So financially, by any metric, it makes sense to go. I don't care how rich you are. Okay, maybe if you're Elon Musk or whatever, you laugh at that, but for the average person, even the average rich person, that makes a lot of sense to go. What I'm talking about is you need take steps forward in your training, in your settings, in your testing. So it's a net positive at the end of the day, outside of the paycheck you're getting. That's. That's when you truly get a win out of going to these offseason races. The money's there. They're going to get the money anyway. But if you can find a way to offset the disruption in your training program because you were able to better yourself and the motorcycle and understand where your weaknesses are, and then you're able to fix them, apply changes and be better at Anaheim, man, that is, that is a real coup in your program. I apologize for the background noise. So that's the ask for these guys, is don't let it be a net negative. Find a way to win all the way around and sometimes it doesn't work. You know, that's not always something that happens. I would argue. Well, you know what I was gonna say, I would argue last year, Webb didn't do that. But on the other side of that coin last year, I think it was a big wake up call for Webb to go and get his butt kicked the way he did. I think that showed him and the team, like, we have a lot of work to do and we have no time to waste. So it's head down. As Hunter Lawrence would say, head down, bum up, and hard to work to get ready for A one. And we saw him come in really ready for A one. So that's the ask again. I think Cooper Webb is far ahead of where he was a year ago. And that will bode very well for him moving forward towards A one. I think Eli Tomac is light years ahead of where he was a year ago. He had just riding Ken Rock and I think Ken Rockson is probably worse than he was a year ago, but he's got time to, to sort that out. Hunter, we don't really know he, I mean he didn't qualify for a one last year so I'll give him just a, a kind of a non applicable here and then Jet, Jet is in such rare air. I don't even know how to, how to grade him like he is. He's probably the best rider I've ever seen in my whole life. You know, like as far as talent bikes, you know, skills on the bike, adaptability, things I, I truly think he's, he's doing things that no one else has ever done. It doesn't mean, that doesn't mean he's going to be the best to ever do it as far as records titles. He could get hurt tomorrow. I don't know. I'm just telling you what I'm watching on the bike. I don't think I've ever seen anybody else do it this way. Stu did incredible things. So like if you're going to talk about blowing me away, I think James Stewart visually is the only one where I'd be like, yeah, when I watched Stu, I had no ide idea how he was doing the things he's doing. That's what Jet does to me sometimes. Now Stu was more on the edge and Stu probably wowed me more than Jet does. That's fair. But Jet goes about it a different way. He's so smooth and it's so subtle. James was, you could, I mean anybody who was even watching for the first time would see it. They would, you know, he, he was so much faster and so much more aggressive and hitting sections totally different than everybody else. It was impossible to ignore Jet's doing it on a, on a, in a different. It's very sneaky the way he finds speed and saves time on the racetrack or it's a different methodology but I would say not any less impressive if you kind of really know what you're looking for. So that's, it's hard for me in that vein of, you know, to think about his Jet better or worse than he was a year ago. I mean, I'm just going to say better because it's hard for me to imagine he's gotten worse. More experience on the 450 championships under his belt, more experience. He's definitely more mature just mentally I'm sure his racecraft has improved so I'm just going to give him the, the benefit of the doubt of, of just being better. Think about Malcolm Stewart now. He had a really good weekend in Paris, but let's, let's go back a year ago and let's Think about weaving media days. And everybody to a man was talking about Malcolm Stewart, Christian Craig, literally his words were, if he doesn't win A one, something went wrong. That's a strong statement. And in hindsight, Christian Cronk. Christian Craig was very wrong. He would. Mookie was nowhere near winning A one, nor was he even in the conversation to win A one. He was fast. Ish. But he underperformed the expectation that many had for him. Doesn't mean it was a bad season. I'm just saying all the talk at media days in December last year were about Malcolm Stewart, and he was finally going to get that win. It was going to be a breakout year. And then we just didn't see it. So Paris was a good sign. Yes. But the question is, is it just more of the same? Is he going to be really fast? Are we going to go to media days and hear people talking about Mookie, how fast he's going at home? I don't know. I just will kind of take it with a grain of salt if that makes sense. And maybe that's not fair, but I learned my lesson last year. Is the offseason's the off season A1. When everybody shows up in the BR, lights turn on and all the pressure and the adrenaline and the expectation comes. That's when it matters. And you, you know, this goes back to conversations we've had for years. You know, Mathis and Weege and all these guys always talk about flying at the test track, right? That's always been a subject who's flying at the test track. In the end, it usually never matters. The. The races are so much different. The tracks are different. You know, let's take the Kawasaki track, for example. I've watched Jason Anderson at the Cowie test track and been like, I don't think that guy will ever lose another race in his life. But it's a track he has super dialed in. That track is rock hard with no ruts most of the time, no bumps. And it's exactly the type of track that Jason Anderson would ride well. Slippery hard pack, low traction environment. And he has it so dialed that, yes, if we raced at the COWI test track, Jason Anderson would probably win most of the races. You know, like maybe Jet find a way to beat him or something. But his. His results would reflect how fast he's going. But that's not what the races are. So you have to take that stuff and kind of take what you can from it, understand that people are riding well and factor that into the equation somehow. But you can't just take it at surface value and go, man, that guy's on fire. He's gonna win. I just. I know what I'm saying. He's gonna, like. I don't think you can do that with the off season, because you're gonna be wrong. You're gonna. You're just gonna be wrong too often. So good job for Mookie. He made a bunch of money. He got on the podium. Those are all really positive things. But I don't want to get. Not only is the likelihood of being wrong too strong, it's probably also not fair to Muki. He just went and raised Paris. He's doing the best he can, you know, to. To put expectation on the backside of that because of Paris. I don't think that Malcolm Stewart would ask for that, nor want it. You know, he's just doing his thing. He's trying to perform. He's paid to do a job, and he. He went there and did a really good job of that. Now, let's talk about Hunter for a second. I touched on the fact that Hunter is very subject to the condition conditions around him. And if things aren't going well, I believe Hunter is a guy that you're gonna see that show up. You know, he. He figured out the 250. They got that bike working extremely well. And you've seen that carry into Shimoda and Jaime now in 2024. But I. I've heard it, seen it. Even Dazzy. Dazzy will tell you that he's so analytical with his approach that he kind of needs things to. To be right. You know, he can. I was actually talking to my dad about this, like, guys like Ricky Carmichael, these bulldog type guys, trying to think of other guys that I would put in that. I think Eli Tomac's the opposite. I think Eli's more like Hunter. But a guy like Ricky, if his bars were bent and his settings were wrong, I'm gonna tell you right now, he didn't care. He would just hold his bike wide freaking open anyway. And that is just not how a guy like Hunter or a guy like Eli Tomac goes about their racing. That is not who they are as racers. And that' I guess it's a net negative. You know, I don't think it's a bad thing. It's just their Persona. It's their race tendencies and their. You know, it's not even racecraft. It's just what. It's how they respond to different racing dynamics and. And the more you can overcome the better. Some people are just better at it than others. So I think for Hunter, the point being, for Hunter, he goes to Paris, the bike's not right. I heard from people, I could see it, I could liter watch them, and the bike wasn't quite right. Hopping around in the whoops. You could see they don't trust it. And that's a. You know, racing is all about trusting your motorcycle. And when I, when I say that, I mean the predictability factor. You have to know what your bike's going to do before it even happens. And that's what allows elite level racers to do their thing, is when they come up to a section, they hit a bump, they hit a jump, they hit a whoop. They already know exactly how their bike's going to respond to that, the way it's going to kick or absorb or the direction, you know, directionally. So they're already thinking ahead. They're not even worried about that particular bump anymore. They're thinking about the next section, the next obstacle, because that while it hasn't happened yet, in their mind, it's already happened. That specific occurrence has already played out in their head and they're thinking about what's next. That's just how these things happen. You have to be thinking way ahead. And if you're trying to react to something that's happening in the moment, you can't. It's happening too quickly. So you have to see it, process it. This is what's going to happen, and on to the next. And then, yes, it does happen. But you've already, you know, I guess you are putting the cart before the horse. Like, you have to do that to race at the speeds these guys are doing. And I'll give you an analogy. Think about MotoGP. Some of you, if you don't watch MotoGP, I apologize, but those that do will get this. Because if you look at a photo of a MotoGP rider, they're dragging their elbow, or in the case of Jorge Martinis, dragging his shoulder. Sometimes in a corner, look where their head is. Their head is all the way around, like facing the other direction because they're looking that far ahead at what's coming. There's no time to react to what's right in front of them there. You can't, you know, maybe in Moto you could, but it's a really bad idea. In MotoGP, they're going, you know, 200 miles an hour on the straights and 80 miles an hour and, and really slow for them. Slow corners. There's no time to do anything about what's right in front of you, so you might as well be looking way out the racetracks. You can prepare and do all the, you know, body language and leaning and body weighting and all those things that they have to do. Same thing in Moto. So it's come, you know, bringing it back to what I'm talking about. The predictability is key because if you're doing that, if you're. You're not thinking about the bump because you've already processed that, and the bike does something wildly unexpected that ruins that trust factor. And then you, either consciously or subconsciously, you know, can go both ways, will go slower, because you have to protect yourself against that unpredictability. If you're just assuming the bike is going to do A and it does. It doesn't even do B, it does, like the letter F, you are probably going to crash really hard. And that's where the trust really comes in, is that when. When guys are really locked in and you think a guy like jet in 2023 pro motocross or whatever, when you see a guy and they're just firing on all cylinders, like, that guy is not going to get beat anytime soon. Like, look how he's just in the zone, right? I guess in the zone would be the easiest reference. They know exactly what's going to happen. There's not a chance in the world that the bike does anything that they are not expecting with 100% certainty. That's where Hunter is going to try, too. He's certainly not there right now. They were pretty far away from that. I think Jet could just overcome it and kind of push through it. But Hunter was definitely hesitant. He wasn't terrible. It wasn't, you know, he didn't get 10th or anything, but for what Hunter is capable of, I would even say a year ago on the 24, we didn't see that guy. He just looked really tentative. And I, I certainly understand why. It's just something that they really need to work on. And I would. I want to see how he looks in Melbourne to see if they were able to take steps towards where they need to be. I don't think it's going to be a sudden fix. I think they're going to have to take steps. They're going to have to build parts. They're going to test this works. That doesn't work. Okay, race team, go back to the shop. Build this part, this chassis, new chassis part that. It's a process because it takes time to build new things and change things to get to where you need to be. And it's a 25, so you don't necessarily have everything laying around that fits it so that whether it's engine hangers or races for, you know, for the suspension, suspension or whatever, there's a, I don't even know all the, the things that a team like factory Honda can change. I just know it's not. Snap your fingers and everything's fixed. It takes time to assess the problem. That's first, diagnose it, think you have an idea for a fix or several ideas for fixes or, or steps in the right direction, accumulate those parts, build them, order them, get them made in Japan, whatever the the case may be. Then test and get to a really good spot. Then you have to make those in mass. You need a bunch of replacements for those parts. So it's, it's a really challenging thing that it's just a part of racing. The tough part is you, you don't want to kind of be behind the eight ball right now. And that's I think where Honda is. Last year I don't think there was a lot of this. I think they were really comfortable. Jet jumped on, well, Hunter jumped on the 450. Jet was already on it, picked it up right away. You know, it was a, what, fourth generation model. That's usually how many years they go. But it was a la last year of the cycle motorcycle and that's usually when you start to figure things out or, or you already have and you're just refining. So it's easy, it's easy to get on that because they have every option in the world. They have every spare part. They can, you can try endless things because they've gone through years of this process that they've had to start over for 20, 25. So they're on the front end of a new generation model which is the toughest year for these things. So I want to see if they've taken steps and it'll also be very interesting to talk riders at media days in December, kind of find out, hey, what are you struggling with? What do you, what is the bike not doing well? And they're pretty, they're pretty transparent, these guys. And then we'll. That'll be a storyline to watch. Do they come in day one and everything's fixed and they're just crushing it or are they still fighting this new chassis a little bit and we watch Chase Sexton go through it all year. So this, it doesn't have to be something they just fix. It can be an ongoing conversation that will be something for us to, to kind of watch and latch onto. And, and the subt of that could be big, big storylines for, for 2025, Ferrandus was the last note I had for Paris. He was pretty good, you know, and the real question is, was he good? Because it's. It's France and it's his home race and the dirt is very suitable for him. He rides that type of dirt very well. Or has he kind of found his old form? Because remember the beginning of 2024, he was 2024. I gotta slow down. He was pretty good. Lots of top fives. 6th, 7th, best run of the season. And then it really got worse from there. So I don't really have any conclusions to draw from it, but it was, it was a solid performance. That, that's really kind of all you can take away from it is, yeah, good job. You know, you showed up, you were in the fight. That's what you're supposed to do. So kudos to. To Dylan Ferrandis. So that's it. We'll see what happens in. In Melbourne. Now I'm going to jump into should we do the Deegan thing first or should we do felt meetings? Let's do felt meetings. We'll wrap up with. With Hayden and Jeff O and Hunter, failed meetings this week. I kind of covered them on the front end, but it was a great time. Ricky was down, James down. We all got together, we have dinners together, talk a lot. And we really just want to make the show better. And yes, I really broad overview at the beginning of the show, but I kind of want to get more granular about things. We're trying to suss out and better ourselves in and for me. And I don't want to make this podcast about me, so I hate when people do that. But my biggest challenge is I feel like when I'm talking, I kind of dance around the point too much. I don't immediately address what I'm talking about. And that's the number one thing I want to improve on. I have two things I want to improve on. Number one, get to the point immediately. Then if I have time or creative ways or intuitive, insightful ways to expand on it, cool, do that. But make sure you get to the point of the story right away and I'll give you an example so you can understand what I'm talking about. Philadelphia this year I wanted to talk about Cooper Webb using the bottoms of berms and using the insides late in the races, and how. How good he is at that and how he uses that as a weapon against these other guys when the track starts going away. The reason he does that is because the track slows down in those outside lines that Jet uses or whoever, literally, with all that momentum, they're not as. They're not as viable anymore. You can't carry as much momentum because it's rough and ruddy. The entrance is rough. All those things can all be true, but they're slower than they were. So when Webb notices that happening, when he senses it's time, he'll drop down to the very bottom of every berm. Not maybe not every single one, but several of them, and he'll start shortening up the racetrack. And that's the key. That's the point I need to get to right away. The way is I need to open, basically, and say, watch for this. Later in the main event, the track's going to deteriorate because it's softer dirt. When it does, Cooper Webb's immediately going to dive to these insides. Now, the reason he does that is to shorten the racetrack. The track will be slower. You can't carry as much momentum. And he knows the fastest way around. It will be the shortest way, and that's why he'll be on the inside. Now, if I could just do that perfect, like, I. I could. I'm sure I could do it better than that, but that's how I need to do it. Open with the point, explain why it's important, finish with the point again and shut up. That is what. That is my number one goal. If I can do that, be concise, be insightful, get in and out, less word salad, right? Dancing around it and trying to talk about it and, you know, cliche, but just land the plane, get the point out of your mouth and take. Tell everybody something that maybe they didn't know or something to watch for. That's gonna play out later. That's the job. The number two thing that I really. You know, we all worked on these. We had these workshops where we're trying to get better. What do you do to get better? You need to figure out where you're not very good. Well, the second thing I want to do is I want to show my personality more. It may be a shock to some, but I have a sense of humor. I'm not saying I'm funny, but I can certainly, even if it's my own expense, make jokes, laugh with people, talk about funny things that are going on the Racetrack, all the chaos that ensues sometimes in the LCQs allow my personality to shine through on the broadcast more than it has been. That is goal number two. Maybe some people think my jokes are stupid. That's okay. They can't all be winners. But allowing myself to, to kind of unfurl on the show is really something I want to do. It's going to help me kind of stand out more. You know, I think my analysis is okay. Like, that's what my bosses like about what I do is, is I can analyze a race, analyze a track. I can typically see ahead of time how things are going to shake out just because I've, I've been doing it my whole life. I've been watching it my whole life. I participated in it for so, so many years. So you understand that things are shaping up to go a certain way, and I can share that ahead of time, that I, I think I have an ability to do that. But if I can pair that with an entertaining side, a funny side, make jokes about it, or just increase the entertainment factor, then that's where I really feel like I could be better and add to the show. So those are the things that I worked on this week. That's how I feel like I can add to the show more. So watch for that 2025. Tell me. I would love for you feedback. I, I. You're not going to hurt my feelings. Tell me I suck. That's okay. You will never be harder on me than I am on myself. Never gonna happen. You're not in my head. You don't hear how hard I am on myself already. You say something that's mean to me, I promise you I've already said it to myself and 10 times worse. So feedback is good. Now if you want to be a jerk, yeah, keep it to yourself. But if you're want to say something that might make me better, you could DM me, You can write in a comment. I promise you I'll read it. But I'm here for all that. I like one of our bosses. I won't even, I'm not even gonna name him my name or anything. But he is one of my bosses, which have layers of them. He's brutally honest. He doesn't care what your feelings are about his feedback. That's not he. There is just no tap dancing around what his opinion is. And I have told him many times, don't hold back, don't sugarcoat it. Just tell me. And you don't have to be mean to me to do It. But if it's gonna make me better and it's holding me back from realizing my true potential, for the love of God, don't not tell me because your scary is gonna hurt my feelings. Like, my sole goal is to be the best I possibly can be. And if it's harsh words that are gonna get me there because it's what I need to hear, then by all means, hit me with it, right? And I may. It may hurt me or I may be like, dang, that man. I. That's. That's tough. But I know deep down that it'll drive me to be better. And this guy is very much that guy. And he. He. I think he even told me he's like, I appreciate that mindset because that's how you'll get better. So again, I'm telling you guys, hit me with what you want. You know, where. Where I'm not getting the job done. And even on this podcast, tell me where I suck. That's okay. Like, I made. I made. Disagree. Right? We don't have to said. Right? That's definitely something I need to be better at saying that stupid word. But I. I want to be the best that I can at everything. And. And not being very good at dirt bikes and fighting through adversity and just bashing my head against the wall until I found a way to make it work, that's the only way I could do it. That's how I made money racing. That's how I stuck around for so long. Is just be relentless and absolutely do not take no for an answer. And at it. And you keep going at it and you keep going at it until it's either a yes or you find a solution to it. That's the only way I know how to do it. And it doesn't matter if it's working for WPS or this podcast or television broadcast or racing a dirt bike overseas. The mentality is the same. And I think there's something to be learned in life about that is if you want something bad enough and you're unwavering and unwilling to take no for an answer, you'll find a way. And I'm not saying this for everything, like I'm not going to be President of the United States. Okay? But that doesn't mean if I. My goal in the world was to run for office. I truly believe I could find a way to get into office somewhere. It might be city council or something. I don't know. It might be the mayor of Whoville. Right? I. I don't know where that would lead. But I, I do think if you are persistent enough and you're willing to overcome, just take adversity on as much as it'll give you, you just keep fighting and just like, bring it. I don't care. You usually come out ahead in life and I know I'm getting deep there, but that's. I truly believe that that is the real thing. So, anyway. All right, that was, that was kind of my week. Let's talk about this Hayden and Jet thing because it's all over the Internet. It's really, the last couple days, it's all anybody's been talking about. And I heard about this a week ago. Okay. I, I knew this was true. I knew this happened, but I'm not, I'm not a. In the aspect of, like rumors and gossip and that, that's not, that's not me. That's not my job. That I will never be that person. I'm not a. I'm not a person who goes out breaking news, especially news that I. Nobody's on the record. It's not public information. That's not me. Now Steve Mathis or people that specialize in that, go for it. Michael Wendsey, whoever, that's what they do. That's their job. They want to do that. They lean into that aspect of the job. No problem. That is not what I do. And, and I've told, you know, whatever, that's just not who I'm going to be. I'm not. I don't want any of that drama. I don't want to, you know, tell people to tell the public things that are privy information that I wasn't even probably supposed to know. I'm certainly not going to share that. That is not the job that I want. I don't want to be Adam Schefter of racing that I know. You know, there are plenty of people that do that and that's fine. They make a lot of money because they do that. I just have never felt comfortable with it. So I wasn't going to decide. Same thing. I wasn't going to share this information when I had it because it's. I don't feel like it's my. It's not appropriate for me to share it. But the gist of what happened is there is hard blood. There's hard. There are hard feelings and bad blood between the Lawrence family and the Deegan family. That's just a fact. I'm not here to choose sides. I'm not here to tell you who's in the right and who's in the wrong. I would probably lean into both of them, have their own perspectives on how things went and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. There have been harsh words thrown back and forth to each side and I can understand why the Lawrences don't like the Deegans or at least don't like their actions. I can understand it. The Lawrence's took a lot of heat over not being American in 2023. I get it. It doesn't mean I agree or disagree with it. It's not. I don't really care. I have nothing to do with any of it. But I understand why the Lawrence was not would not like the Deans and for the Deans, my perception, my opinion is that they're ready to take on all comers. They don't care. They are here for not a fight, not a fist fight, but the proverbial fight. They're here for it. They are ready to anybody wants some, come get some. That is just who they are. That is who Brian is, that is who Hayden is. And if you haven't picked up on that, then you're not paying attention. So I don't think they're shying away from any controversy or any confrontation whatsoever. So what happened is Jet and Hunter got invited to go back to Aus X Open. They haven't been there since 2019. They're getting paid a lot of money and they have leverage. In the end, a lot of the story is about leverage. So Jet and Hunter were kind of are able to call their shots at this race and they didn't want Hayden Diggin to go. That's my interpretation of things. Now why they didn't want him to go is you'd have to ask them. But what I think is that they're not big fans of Hayden Deacon so if they had a chance to kind of get one over on him, so be it. Also, also that's, that's a small percentage, I think, but I think there's also a big percentage that they didn't want to deal with Hayden Deegan down there. They didn't want to deal with any of the drama. They didn't want to deal with any of the that stuff. They wanted to be a drama, free trip, make a bunch of money, have a lot of fun and not deal with any of that. That's, I believe, a big part of this also. It's probably less reported on but I think that's a big part of this also and I can understand that it doesn't mean I agree with it. Doesn't mean it's fair. Doesn't mean that Brian and Hayden would be like get out of here with that. Certainly could. But. But I believe that there was some of that in there. Now the real questions start to come in as to whether this was kosher. Should the promoters have agreed to it? I don't. I don't really have a strong opinion. The promoters agreed to what they agreed to. They probably felt like Hayden wasn't going to come anyway and what was it going to hurt. And the Warrens camp really insisted on that. This. So let's just do it. And hopefully the Deacons don't want to come. We. They never even know. I think that and Jason Anderson was in that camp. I've heard another marquee rider was in that camp. I'm not going to share that info because I don't know for sure. But I think they were hoping they could just. It would just stay. It could sweep it under the rug. Nobody'd ever what did. That didn't happen. Hayden has been rocked, riding really well. He's on fire right now and he reached out asking about going down because he's ready to rip and he wanted to make some money and go to the trip. So unfortunately, I would guess that the promoter somewhere was like I just hope this stays quiet and we don't even have to let anybody know. I this is me and this is my opinion. I don't know this for sure but I'm just saying if I was in their shoes that's probably how I would feel. And then that didn't happen and now it's blowing up. Agents are yelling at each other. Other. Lots of hard feelings now and Deegan's not going because, you know, and I've. I've read vital and I've read all the people saying he should just go anyway. That's not how this works. A guy like Hayden Deegan would get like I don't know, at least 75 grand maybe probably more. He's Hayden Deegan. Maybe 100, maybe 150. A lot of money is the point to go down plus seven several business class tickets which if you're buying them are about ten grand a piece to go to Australia. Ask me how I know. So it's a. It's not like you could just say you should just go anyway and show them. You're talking about like a $50,000 investment on top of you're going to go race for free. No, that's. That's crazy talk and when I read those comments like that I just roll my eyes to like they practically roll back, back in my head when I read that because that's never going to happen. But what I, I don't like this aspect and I would not be fair if I didn't mention I don't, I don't love this. That you would block someone else's right to go race or put it in your contract that they can't come. I don't love that. And I'm a big Lucas Myrtle fan. I'm a gigantic Jet Hunter and Dazzy fan. That should go without saying. But I, I don't love this move. I think it's going to incite a lot of drama down the road. It's, it's only going to make worse between the two camps. And also I don't like impeding someone's else's opportunities to make money. I don't love that aspect of it. Now I understand it. I know there are hard feelings. I know they're like basically both sides are like f those guys. So I, I get it. I just don't love it. So that's kind of where it sits. Nothing's gonna happen. The vegans aren't going. It's just where do we go from here is really the question. Question. Are there repercussions from this down the road? Do you know? I, we'll see. You know, they've kind of, they made their decision. They knew, they went in with eyes wide open to do this and maybe they don't care. Like, yep, we got you. Screw you. I don't know. You know, I, I haven't talked to Jet and Hunter about it so I don't know their true feelings about it. But it's hard to imagine that there won't be some sort of reaction or some sort of back end response. It's hard to imagine knowing Brian and Hayden, Dean, and that's my opinion also you, you all watch the races. You all see how things are. Do you think nothing will ever be said or done about this ever? I don't, I don't believe that for a second. I don't know what that'll be. I have no idea. It's not for me to decide. I'm just here watching the races like all of you. But I just wonder. You just wonder. The big picture of things, is this a smart move? Was this, like I said earlier, was, is the juice worth the squeeze of this move? Because, and this is what I've been arguing with Steve Mathis about Because he kind of is like, shoulder shrug. He's like, ah, whatever, who cares? And I'm like, show me some upside. That's where I keep coming, coming back to on this is just show me the upside of this move. Other than like vengeance or like feeling like you got him back or if that's the goal, then mission accomplished. You, you got that. But I'm talking about real upside, like something tangible that is worth the hateful comments on the Internet and all the ill will that they're, they've garnered from this. Not only from, not only from Deegan fans, that's a, that's a given. But all the people in the middle. And that's, that's another point that I was arguing is like, all these people that kind of were like, I like both of them. They're, they're both, they're all awesome. I don't really know who to cheer for. It's, it's hard for me to imagine that a move like this, especially think about the Australia fans that they feel like they got robbed of seeing Hayden Deegan. They can't love this move. Even if they're gigantic Jet and Hunter fans, which I'm sure they are, they, they have to kind of look at this move sideways going, okay, this was our chance to see Aiden Deegan and we don't get it because this other thing, like, it's just a really hard thing, I think, to, to wrap your head and I think it's hard again to find true upside in every decision. I think a big decision you make has to be looked at as what is the risk, what is the reward is if it's controversial, is the upside worth the risk of it going poorly? And I struggle, I really struggle with finding the upside in this. And you know, if, if you know their mom, Emma or Dazzy or Jet or Hunter or Tate or someone at Hana is listening to this and they're like, yeah, you don't get it. That's okay. Like, fair enough. I, I, in the end, I truly don't care. I really don't. But I, I am a huge, huge fan of the Lawrences and actually I really like Brian Deegan. I, I truly respect Hayden's talent. I, he's just, we've had like friction and not on my end, I don't care. But I really like Brian too. Like, we have kind of a blossoming friendship thing going on. But I've been fan of Jen, Hunter and Dazzy for years now, so I, I'm looking at, trying to look at every angle of this and all the ins and outs and, and possible outcomes. I just, man, I, I don't. I don. One was worth. But again, that's for them to decide. They have to live with this decision. And right now I don't think they. It. I haven't seen anybody come out regretting it, so maybe they don't care. I. I don't know. Anyway, I probably already said too much about the matter. In the end, it's all opinion anyway. Everybody's going to draw their own conclusions. I just wonder, was this one the right move? If, if the goal was to get them back for something, then I think you got that done. But if it was something else, I don't know. I don't know that it was worth it. If that makes sense. So we'll see. We'll see what the end game is. We'll see how this plays out. We'll see what the repercussions are if any. You know, if nothing ever happens and everybody rides off on the sunset, you never hear, then, yeah, maybe, maybe this was the right move. I just don't. I don't believe that to be the most likely outcome. And in anything in life, you're kind of playing the odds. You're kind of playing what's the most likely thing to happen? Game with most things. And I think the most likely thing to happen in this scenario is that it causes more drama down the road. So we'll see. We'll see if I'm right or wrong in that aspect. And yeah, that's. I mean, that's half the fun of this stuff. So thank you everybody for, for listening to this podcast. Actually, I enjoyed this one, to be honest. Maybe, maybe it sucked for you, but I enjoyed this one. Perhaps. Pirelli tires. Guts Racing. Plum Creek Funding concept. Coatings design company Works connection. You can save money using the promo code JT23, which is shocking. It's almost 2025, but JT23 will save you some money. TL Speed Shop. Grant Stone Boots. And their website is grandstoneshoes flyracing.com TLSpeedShop.com is their website. Pump Creek funding rates are not great, but some of you need to buy a house anyway. So reach out to Zack Morris at Plum Creek Funding and go toguts racing. Racing.com. save yourself some money on everything that you may need. I can get you a promo code if you need one, but they have E bike stuff. Surrons, of course, every dirt bike known to man. They have seats, graphics, anything you'd want in there. And on top of everything, they're just great people over there. And then, yeah, Pirelli been on since day one. So thank you, everybody, for listening. I hope. Hope I didn't anger anybody with the Jet Deegan thing, but it's everywhere right now. And, yeah, talk to you soon. See?