Jason Thomas (0:00)

A pulp MX Network production. A cerebral and experienced look into the racing action from the week that was. This is Industry Seating with Jason Thomas. Presented by Guts Racing Pro, Glow, Wash Works Connection, Bass Foundry, TL Speed Shop, Grandstone Boots and Fly Racing. Welcome to the Industry Seating podcast. My name, it's always actually my name, Jason Thomas. And I appreciate all of you coming to so listen to the show. This week we are on the backside of the Thunder Valley national held in Lakewood, Colorado. Round three of the Pro Motocross Championship, round 21, 2021, I think, 20 of the Super Motocross World Championship. And you might notice that we are well trained to talk about both series at the same time. The greater part of the Super Motocross World Championship as we steam ever closer to the playoffs that are going to start in September. And you know, it's interesting when you think about those playoffs because I can remember being at the press conference for the SMX World Championship kickoff and this was held at the LA Coliseum and it was in early October of 2022, and I kind of went at the last minute. I felt like I probably should be there. You know, Fly Racing is heavily involved in all these series, so had our videographer there. I flew down more of like a. Just to show participation and, you know, we're a valued partner, so we should be there. Had nothing to do with TV stuff. It had nothing to do with how fortunate I am now. You know, I've been given such fantastic opportunities by Feld and MX Sports and NBC and all these people, and I am eternally grateful to them. Like, you could take it all away today. I could get a phone call here. I'm recording this on Sunday, June 7, or whatever this is. You could tell me it's, it's over and I would still be so grateful for every opportunity I've been given. It's meant that much to me. It had nothing to do with any of that. I was there to kind of learn to just be on hand. And I remember thinking, I don't know how this is going to go. Like, this feels a little. I don't know, like I. It wasn't like I showed up, I watched this press conference, I drank the Kool Aid and I was all in. Like, it definitely wasn't that type of situation for me. I had so many questions. I really struggled with the Super Motocross terminology. I still do a little bit. It's. It's grown on me some. It still just feels a little strange to me. And I was just like, wait, we're going to do what we have escalating points at rounds two and three and like, I was just like lost and I was very, very unsure that this was going to take hold. Now it's summer of 2025. I feel like it's all, it's all worked. And it is working. The riders have bought in, the teams have bought in, the media have, like, even the most trying to think of the right word. Skeptical. Cynical was the word I really wanted. Guys like Steve who were just like, rolled their eyes early on, they're kind of on board. And Steve's a guy that's. Once he has an opinion on something, he's never going to be all the way convinced. He's always going to kind of like look at you, give you the side eye, but you don't hear him kind of pushing back and he's, he's slowed down on some of the gimmick talk. That was like his thing. He's not hammering that home all the time. So even the most skeptical of those amongst us have kind of been like, nah, man, it's been pretty good. And I think the playoff rounds have really delivered. We've had fantastic racing. We've had championships that came down to literally the final moto in the playoffs. And, you know, you think about what that has done to change the way these guys are racing. Like Cooper Webb, I feel very, very confident in the fact that he would not race all 12 round or 11 rounds of pro motocross if it weren't for SMX, the playoff system in place. I could be wrong. I haven't asked him that. It's not like he, like, you know, nod, nod, wink, wink, and told me that it's all because of playoffs. That's just my take on it is that it's kept guys around. It has made racing these, you know, every round so much more important. And in that same vein, I'm very surprised that Chase Sexton's not racing. The asterisk to that, or I guess an addition or a sidebar would be. These playoffs haven't been very kind to Chase. So if you're looking for someone who would be like, yeah, I don't care. I don't care about the SMX World Championship playoff points. I simply don't care. Well, it would be Chase because it has not gone well for him. Remember in 2023, he went into LA Coliseum with a chance to win it all. He had a huge crash in the final race while winning. He wasn't going to win anyway. He needed Help. But man, did he have a big crash. Hurt his shoulder, like back and shoulder was beat up for a while. Hindered him switching to ktm. Like there was a lot there. Didn't end well is the point. Fast forward to 2024. We go to Las Vegas for the finale and he has a chance again and he gets landed on by Barsha and breaks his hand, which puts him out of the motocross the nations, which he definitely wasn't thrilled about. So it's been a rough go for him as far as playoffs. And you counter that with like Deegan and Jet, which they've made millions of dollars at these, you know, these playoff rounds. Yeah, man. Like, they can't get enough. I'm sure, like, this is awesome for them. So you just have to qualify it a little bit with how it's gone for certain guys. And I'm not sure how I got so off on a tangent on the playoffs. I guess it's just because it's. When we start this Supercross Championship in January, and I'll even go back further, I'll go to the first meeting of the year for the broadcast team, the production team, NBC, everybody. Well, I shouldn't say the first one, but like, collectively as a group, like, it's. The meeting starts before I get there. It's like the week before and then the week I am there, but that's in November and everybody's there talking about all these things, what's going to happen the following season, how we're going to do things on the broadcast side, changes for whatever points, rules, anything. It feels so far away to think about the following September in those playoff rounds. It feels like it's never coming. You know, it just feels like it's such a arbitrary date that's never going to arrive. And I can remember vividly being at that, those meetings and feeling that way. And now we're in June, which is insane, and we're thinking about September, and it still kind of feels far off, but not really. Like, we've got. We've got what, seven more, eight more pro motocross rounds and then we're there. And. And I've got all the. I've got a Europe trip that I've gone. I'm gone for two weeks in July. It's going to be here before we know it. I just like, it is insane the way that time works and how fast these weeks go. And I'm going to be sitting in Concord at our host hotel and be like, holy hell, here we are again. It is just mind boggling to me. And maybe I'm the only one that feels this way. I don't know. Everybody has their own unique experiences in this life, but when I think about how fast things are going and these years are clicking off, it is truly unbelievable. And then we're going to go through the playoff rounds and we're going to go to motocross, the nations at Ironman and we're going to be right back talking about 2026 Supercross season. It is crazy. So anyway, I got way, way, way off track there. But thank you to all the sponsors of this podcast for being a part of it. I have the truly the best and most loyal sponsors. Guts racing works, connection, TL speed shop and their new website, race-rentals.com unmatched supplements. The best products on the market, bar none. I would put their products up against anybody in the supplement space. Grant Stone Boots, Firepower, Hard parts and batteries and Fire Racing. Thank you to all of them. Yeah, just an amazing group of people that, yeah, I don't like working with people or products that I don't believe in or I wouldn't. You know, like I'm attaching my name to them the same way they're attaching their name to me. Right. So it has to be symbiotic that way. And I'm simply not doing it if I believe the product is not good or someone's gonna buy their product and then the product sucks and then they that reflects on me. I just would never work with anybody like that. And trust me, there are plenty of companies in this world that that's the case. Like it's just the product's not good. And I not saying they're beating my door down, but I'm just telling you on the front end, if you see a company associated with this podcast, it's something I believe in. So anyway, let's talk about what we saw in Thunder Valley leading up to the race. I got there Thursday and pretty nasty day. Like it was kind of off and on like rain, then sun, rain, sun, nothing too crazy like manageable to typical. Kind of like Colorado spring summer. Friday was worse. Friday was pretty nasty. Pretty heavy rain at the track. Yeah like when I was leaving and that evening it rained a lot. Like all the rental cars pretty much got stuck. Thankfully I it's not my first rodeo so I kind of knew what to do. Like park on the top of the hill. Worst case scenario, you just roll down the hill and don't hit the brakes, which is kind of what I did, but it was, it was a little messy. Like we just. Car got stuck. Aaron, one of our NBC executive producers, his car got stuck. And it's just, you're in a grass field that turns to mud and you can't get out. You know, it's a pretty common theme with these, with these races is these rental cars are not. They're two wheel drive. And if any type of mud at all, you're. You're screwed. So it was a pretty nasty Friday and then that just turned into the most beautiful Saturday ever. Like, it was amazing how nice the weather was on Saturday. And okay, if you're standing in the sun for five hours, was it hot? Yeah, maybe a little bit, but not like more just the sun. Being in the sun for that long is going to take a toll on any type of weather. But like, temperature wise, there was no humidity. There was. It was a little breezy. But like, it's kind of a nice breeze. Not like blow all the canopies down type wind. It was just like a nice breeze. Man, I just, I'm very thankful for how nice Saturday turned out because we know what happened to Hangtown and Friday. If the race had been on weather, you know, Saturday weather had been flipped around Friday to Saturday, it would have been an absolute disaster. Like, it would have been, it would have been a mess. But that left the track in very unique conditions. I thought super soft. You know, they bring in a lot of dirt for this race. And all that water got worked into the dirt because as they were bringing it in, it rained kind of all week. And it really got worked through the dirt. And they did seal it, you know, I guess maybe Thursday. I don't know when they, when they finished sealing it, but they did seal it. The problem was they sealed wet dirt. And you know, the typical move for supercross, motocross, anything, if you have expected rains. We've seen your Nadilla do this in 20, 24, 4, 23, 24. Where they knew rains, heavy rains were coming, they sealed it, it all runs off. And that sealing process, you need like a steamroller, really heavy equipment to pack the dirt really hard on top. So the water hits it and it runs off the side. It doesn't. It's. It's unable to penetrate. That really baked hard, steamrolled surface. So then once the rain stops, you can dig beneath that and the dirt underneath it is dry. This, in this scenario, the problem was is that water got worked into it before they sealed it because it rained like all week. So they sealed wet Dirt, So it didn't get worse, but it was already just super wet. So then when we get to Saturday, they start ripping it, reworking it. Well, that's all well and good, and it does improve throughout the day. The track steadily gets better and drier, but when they worked it, they ripped it, they tilled it, they bladed it, like all that, it's just wet dirt under wet dirt on top of wet dirt. And every time it gets reworked, the sun hits that dirt, it dries a little bit more, but then the dirt beneath that is still wet. So it's. It's a very challenging thing to get the track to come around in a quick fashion because of that dynamic where it's soaked all the way through. And if they didn't seal it, like, let's say that Unidilla year, they had not sealed it, and they just let the rains come. All that moisture gets through the dirt, and you're in the same situation you were in Thunder Valley. They're just trying to avoid that. And the trouble is, if you have rain for days or weeks on end leading up to it, you don't really have an option. You know, you're just making the best of a difficult situation. But I thought the track turned out really good. Was it difficult, tricky, super ruddy? Yeah, yeah, it was. It absolutely was. But I don't think that's a net negative. I just think it was, you know, a unique racetrack. It had nuance to it. You couldn't blitz around it with reckless abandon. It was actually very similar to 2022, 23, the year when Masterpool was on a 450. I think it was 22. It felt very similar to that year where it was super soft, super ruddy, really tricky, and. And you had to. You had to be careful with where you pushed hard and where you kind of were mellow. And it's. It's easy for me to say that, but when you watch Tomac, you're like, holy crap. Guys pushing everywhere. Well, you know, guys like Eli and Jet and those guys are kind of. They're aliens. Like, normal rules don't apply to them. But for those of you listening who ride or have raced, which is a lot of you, you will understand this thing where some tracks, you know, it's hard, pack real pretty good traction, not really sketchy, and you can push pretty hard for your limit without a lot of risk of something unexpected happening. And then there's other tracks where it just feels like the tracks reaching up and grabbing you everywhere. And it's like out to get you, you know, that's what it truly feels like. It feels like this racetrack has a vendetta against me and it's trying to take me down. That's what this track was kind of like super sticky, super ruddy. You make any small mistake, it's exacerbated by the dirt and the ruts and you just, you had to respect the racetrack a lot. I think that's probably the best way I could succinctly put this, is it was a track that demanded respect and not all tracks do. Some tracks you can really get away with a lot and the track will let you walk all over it and not really kind of bite back. This one, man, you step out of line, you were in a world of hurt. And so, yeah, I think these series are best suited or they're in their best form. When we get a little bit of everything, you know, we get some really hot races, maybe we'll get a mud race, you know, we'll get this really sticky racetrack. I'm sure we'll have a race where it's, you know, super hard pack, like Washougal. Right. If it doesn't rain in Washougal, super hard, super slippery. The shadows. Shadows suck, by the way. But variety adds a lot of character to the series and I think it helps show us, over the course of 11 rounds, who the best motocross rider is. And I am here for that. I think MXGP does a fantastic job of that as well. Although I will say some of the MXGP tracks are absolutely terrible. Like, I, I, I just, I firmly believe that some of the tracks are not very good. And I'm not going to name names, I'm not here to blow anybody out. But I have, I've seen some rounds where I'm just shaking my head like, man, that is not a good racetrack. Like, not a good one. But they also have incredible racetracks at iconic venues like Majora or Nay. These tracks are insanely good. Insane atmosphere, insane. Like just the, the whole feeling of the weekend. But not all of them, that's for sure. Like, if you watch the Spanish GP this year, that was not good. There was maybe 500 people there, pouring rain. It was a miserable experience on all fronts. All fronts. So, yeah, you know, it's going to take that. Sometimes you're going to get a little bit of everything. And I like throwing everything at the riders and see who can respond, see who can adapt. That's what shows, you know, in the end, you see who's the best and we're talking about the, the very tippy top level of this sport. This is it. If you don't believe me, look at Jorge Prado. Like, go ask him how this is going. This is as good as it gets when you think about all the disciplines. Supercross, motocross, smx, you know, super motocross, hybrid tracks like Jet Lawrence. Make no mistake, I'm saying it right now, and I would tell it to anybody who asks. Jett Lawrence is the best racer on the planet. Now, Eli Tomac can match pace sometimes. Eli Tomac is one of the best to ever do it. But Jett Lawrence is the best racer on the planet, bar none, Bar none. And I want to see him challenged in every way possible. Like, I want to see him get tested. I want to see you, as a series, throw the book at Jet and let's watch him work it out mentally, physically, and show us just how damn good he can be when pushed to the limit. And thank you to Eli Tomac and you could even say AP this weekend for taking him to the limit, right? Like, I want to see the best. And you could say the, you could say, you could flip that. You could flip the inverse. Thank you, Jet, for making Eye Tomac push to the very limit. Right? It's not like I'm here to only pump up Jet. It has nothing to do with that. I want to see the best guys take it to the very limit and find their ceiling. Like that is to me, from my perspective, having raced them, and I know how much I dedicated to it, I wasn't as good as them, clearly, but I had days where I was pretty damn good at this. Like, I had days where I was going just as fast as Chad Reed, you know, on. On an outdoor track, you know, very rare, very rare. But I know what it feels like to be, like, pretty damn good at this. And when I watch those guys now, when they're really pushing and I'm talking like, second Moto at Thunder Valley, I just stare at and I'm like, holy crap. Like, it still blows me away. And I feel like my kind of. It's. It's very hard to impress me with this stuff because I've seen it for too long and too often from the best, very best guys across all generations. So I kind of shoulder shrug a lot when I see excellence. Not with these guys. Not with these guys. I'm just telling you, that track pushed guys to the limit. And it was very, very impressive to watch, especially Jet and Tomac in that second moto. I was just like, shaking My head at the camera because I know what they were doing. Like, I know how difficult it was to do what they were doing. They were just checking out on guys and Justin Cooper put in a hell of an effort early on, but he couldn't hold it. And that's. That's where we're going to get to in this kind of having a very overarching open to this podcast. But it's. It's very rare that guys can sprint like that and then maintain it. That's where the magic happens. That's where Jet and Eli are so special. That's where Carmichael was so special. When James really kind of reached his pinnacle, the pinnacle of his career, like 070809, he. He was able to do that on a big bike. It's just rare error. Dungy's been able to do it. Villa Poto has been able to do it. It's just not a thing that most guys can do. And I don't know if a guy like Cooper or Hunter or ap, Take your pick. I don't know that they're going to be able to do that regularly. Which is what it takes. That's what it takes to be champ in this class, in my opinion, is to be able to go your best and somebody's pushing you to the limit and you can just sit on the limit. And for those of you who like follow bicycle racing or anything, you know what that means. I could sit on your absolute maximum heart rate, flat out. And you can just sit there and suffer in that zone for an extended period of time. That's incredibly difficult to do. It's just very, very rare species of human that can. That can handle that type of workload, that strenuous with so much skill, like riding skill. It's not like they're just having to push out watts or energy like a bicycle racer would. You know, staring forward, no real thought. Like they're just. Every ounce of them is just into their legs pedaling. This is different than that. Like they're jumping and finessing through sections and wheel tapping and, you know, like there's just so many other variables going on, but they also have to sit on their cardiovascular limit at the same time. Like it is just. To me, it's. It's just insane like how difficult this sport is when you really account for all the things, all the asks on your mind and body. It's a pretty insane thing that we. Yeah. That we get to watch every single weekend. So anyway, let's jump into this thing. Start with the 250s. I mean, chance Jaime was perfect. Literally, fastest qualifier, both hole shots, wins both motos. And I think. I mean, that's the best we've ever seen. Chance Jaime, no doubt about it. But it was, you know, like, I'm not ready to say that anything changed, like, turn the tide or anything. I've heard that take thrown out there. People kind of pondering it. I'm not there. I think Deegan is too resilient, too fast. Deegan, like, you say all that. Like, those people that are kind of putting that out there. You say all that. And then Deegan went two, two. You know, like, it wasn't like he got stomped in the first. First moto. He had caught Chance bike. Let's go. Second moto. He couldn't catch him, but he sat, what, six seconds off, you know, the whole race. Five seconds off the whole race. So Deegan, to me, is too resilient for any of that talk. He has a huge points lead. He's fine. You're going into high point, which he's been fantastic at. I just more. I don't think it says anything about Deegan at all, personally. I think it just says more about Jaime and how great Jaime was. Now, the other side of this coin is Jaime has been really inconsistent. You know, like, okay, three, six at the opener. The second round was an atrocity. Not his fault. Food poisoning, but that still counts. Those points are gone. It doesn't matter if you had food poisoning or you fell over and twisted your wrist. None of that matters. Like, right. Like, Deegan's throat was closing up. Second moto. You have to, for a championship, find ways around those things. And I'm not saying I would have been doubled over puking my brains out if I. If I was Jaime. This has nothing to do with me. I'm talking about winning the championship. You don't get a mulligan. No. Nobody cares. Like, it's very pass, fail, black and white. There's no emotion to it. None of that. So when you just think about the championship, that's where I've kind of always pushed back on this talk with chances. Like, yes, I know, dude. I know you're fast. You can win. You. I. I've been wrong about him at every turn through his career of, like, I didn't think he would be a national winning guy when he was, like, 14. And I remember having these conversations at WPS because I was like, I don't know. I just don't know. Like, I'm not saying it's Impossible. I just don't know. And he's there. He just dominated this weekend. Now I'm saying to. To take the next step and be the title guy, you got to damn near be perfect. Like, that's. That's what you're up against. And maybe this is what I wanted to throw out. There's kind of where I'm getting to. Maybe in 26 and 27, Deegan will be gone for motocross. He's moving up in 26 motocross. I'm telling you right now, if you didn't already know, maybe Jaime has a real legitimate championship run then. Because I just think this year is all Deegan. Like, Deegan is too good. He's too solid. He knows. He just knows what to do. Like, he can. If he's not feeling it. Like, this weekend, he'll just lay up and get on the podium and just keep racking the points up. You know, next year, there's going to be a big vacuum. Someone's going to have to step up and do it. You know, V is going to have to move to 450 and Supercross. Does he drop back down from motocross? I don't know. Maybe. But, like, this summer hasn't been inspiring. Like, there's nothing about this summer that would tell you he's ready to do it. Kitchen looks like he could possibly be the guy, but at some point, he's going to move up. He's going to want to move up. He's a big guy on that 250, but he certainly is a likely contender. Shimoda could absolutely be in that void. But really, until this year, and then you talk about 20, 22, those are the only real years that he was, like, kind of in it, like, ready to be a title guy. If you remove the leader, you know, it was Jet in 22 this year, it's Deegan. If you take those guys out, then maybe he's there. But, like, that's where I'm getting to, is for all these guys, we're going to remove that unbeatable guy. In my opinion, like, that guy's gone. So who fills the void? Who fills the power vacuum of the alpha of the class exiting? So I think it's important for Chance to continue getting better, try to win races, like, do your thing. Like, if you could. If Deegan has DNFs or gets hurt, you need to be winning because this thing could be blown back wide open. But I think the chance for a chance not to. Well, chance for. Chance to Win a championship is more like 26, 27 in my mind. That's just kind of where I'm at. I just think his maturity, his improvement, his trajectory all line up for the consistency to be worked out by 26 and 27. So we'll see if I'm right or wrong on that. I kind of covered Deegan just, you know, increases the points lead. I thought he handled himself pretty well. You know, Steve kind of pushed back, saying, like, oh, now we're rewarding professionalism. Well, sure, yeah. Why not? Like, if my take is that if you're going to. Myself included, we're all going to kind of, like, shake our head and not be thrilled with the things he says and the things he does. Taking shots at people. You know, he's chirping at kitchen after the moto when kitchen's overheated. Like, all those things. Like, I've told all of you on this podcast many times, that's not how I would do it. Like, I'm not a brash person unless you give me reason to me to be. Like, you piss me off. Okay, all bets are off. But just in a. I try to be very respectful of people, and I'm a big believer of treat people how you would want them to treat you. And trust me, I get things wrong all the time. When I was racing, I was much more aggressive, and my demeanor was much different than it is now. But I still think that I w. I didn't, like, run my mouth to people all the time. That's just not who I really am as a person. I'm more way more subdued than that. So when I watch Deegan do those things, I just kind of always tell myself, like, it's not how I would do it. But I think when he does it the way that I think it should be done, and that's a very subjective thing. I'm not saying I'm perfect. It's just how I believe that it should be done. I think he deserves credit. You know, if you're going to. If you're going to harass him when he doesn't do it right, then the inverse has to be true. Like, you should get credit when you do do it right. And he gave Chance credit for. For winning. He said he rode really well. He just said, you know, like, didn't have it. I overrode the bike in the first one. Didn't have it in the second one. Moving on. Right. So I'm. I'm cool with that. Like, I will be the first one to say Like, I don't like that. But when you do it, like in my personal opinion, in a more professional, more mature fashion, I'm going to point that out too. Like, I just think it has to go both ways or else what the hell are we doing here? Like, it's not fair for it to be one sided. So kudos for it to Hayden for being mature and a class act on the podium this weekend. Levi Kitchen, man, what a comeback, right? And there's two ways to look at this. One, hell of a job of working from bad start, getting to the front, getting on that podium. Great job. Like, you deserve a lot of credit for that. The other side of the coin, and I don't really care which side of the coin you take. The other side of the coin is like, what the hell are you doing back there, dude? Like, you're, you're ruining any shot to be in the fight because your pace is pretty damn good. But we really didn't talk about you much. You were never around Deegan or Jaime, which you should be and you had to move heaven and earth to be in the podium conversation. So take whatever side of that you will. I think he deserves credit for in the end getting the job done, but he's making it really hard on himself with the starts and the first lap positioning stuff. And I'm sure he knows that I'm not. This isn't breaking news or some sort of crazy insight. I'm just kind of pointing it out that it's awesome the way he got the job done, but he's also limiting his upside with that type of stuff, you know. Like, I don't think third is the end all goal here. Like Mitch is not going to the weekend going, man. If we could just find a way to get third, all would be saved. Like that's, that's not it. I promise you. That is not where Mitch Payton's head is and has never been. Joe Shimota, decent weekend. You know, the starts had been there this weekend. They weren't, you know, he'd been on a four moto streak of getting second. That's shot to hell now but still like reasonable bounce back. Hung in there. Still second points. I just think you need to kind of like he needs to regroup this week, think about what was good or bad. Why was it different than the first four motos? Was it the start? Was it my pace? Was it the bike, try to pinpoint what that was and get back on form. Not that he was riding bad, he wasn't. But get back on form at High Point. Get the starts locked back in, get your early laps back in, and try to lock back into whether it's Deegan, because Jaime is going to be good at High Point. Like, we've seen him, how fast he is at High Point. Walk into those guys early on and get back to kind of where you were. It's. It's only been one race. Like, it's not like you forgot. I just think it's one of those where, like, okay, I'm going to pretend that Thunder Valley never happened and we're moving on and it's. We're right back to where we were. That that's what he's going to, I think, want to try to do. Tom Vi. I touched on him earlier. I don't know what's happening here. It's not great. Like, I watched the first round and he was pretty good. Gets on the podium. I'm like, all right, that's. That's a good start, right? He won the Supercross Championship. Probably still feeling a little Supercross hangover. Not quite up to speed yet. And it's gotten worse and a lot worse since then. So I don't know what to make of this, per se. I'm kind of like shoulder shrug at this whole series from him so far. It's certainly not any sort of championship contention. Like, that's out the window at this point. Like, forget it. And he's not even riding well enough for that even to be a conversation. Like, you could say he lost a ton of points, but, man, he is killing it. So, like, if things went a certain way. No, he's not even riding well enough for any of that. Like, throw all that the hell to hell. That's not even a thing right now. Because the riding is the problem above all else. You know, like, you can fix a lot of things with speed and that. You know, like, there's a. There's a saying that sales fixes all. You know, like, if you're in business and you sell a lot, you can pretty much overcome any problems. Like sales fixes all, or sales fixes every. Sales will fix everything. There is very. That is very much a concept. Speed is similar to that. If you're going really fast, you can overcome a bad start, you can overcome a points gap, you can overcome nearly anything. But simply put, vows, he doesn't have the speed. He does not have that speed at all. So he needs everything to be perfect. And it's. That's not happening either. So, yeah, I'm not quite sure what to make of old Tom Vial at the moment. Garrett Marchbanks Crushing it. Great job. I don't really have a whole lot to add other than shout out for him. He is, he looks fantastic. I can't imagine that Mitch is going to let him go the way he looks right now. I know it's tight as far as like, slots over there, but I mean, he's, what else do you want from him, you know? Like, if you're asking him to step up this summer to get that spot, what else could you possibly want from the guy than what he's doing? And then the last guy I was going to mention is Drew Adams. Man, that, that Sakamoto. I think it was the second Moto. First Moto, I don't remember whatever it was. I think it was the first one Moto he crashed. Second one Moto, he killed it. Um, and I apologize for not knowing that, but he was riding incredibly well is the point. Doesn't really matter. Just watch for this kid because he is improving, like by leaps and bounds. Like, I, I, I'm a big Drew Adams fan and he looks really good. Like, you can just see him getting better. You can see his progression as we're going here. All right, let's talk about the, the power rankings. And I took my time with these this week and really tried to think through them more because it is a shifting dynamic. Sexton is gone. See ya. He's out of here. I don't know when he's racing again. I don't know if he is racing again. But I'm not going to leave him in here while he sorts that out because it is always not well in Sexton land and Red Bull ktm. So I took him out and when he comes back, he goes back in. It's that simple. The honorable mention for this week, he didn't make it. And I don't even know if he should be an honorable mention is Jorge Prado. The only reason I even honestly full transparency. The only reason I put him in here was because he needed to be talked about. Like, I don't know what's happening over there. That second Moto. Okay. I was told that the motorcycle had an issue. I don't know if I believe that other than the issue that he's been dealing with all season, which is he's not riding very well. The bike doesn't seem to be very fast. It doesn't seem to be working very well, and they are not driving as a group. That that's what I believe the issue was. I don't know. Like, I'm happy. I don't take that as gospel. That's just my opinion. But I watched him pull in. They didn't attempt. They didn't even attempt to work on it. They didn't do anything other than Jorge told his mechanic to get on the bike and they left. That's how it went. Like, I've seen especially my role now, and you could add in decades of before and after riders pulling the mechanics area when there's a problem with their motorcycle. They're trying to translate what's wrong. The mechanics trying to work on it. They're looking at the motorcycle. They're looking at the engine. They're looking. If there's any leak, they're trying to fix, you know, whatever. Like, controls, like, the levers, all that. The handlebars and all the levers are called the controls. Trying to fix that. Like, they're frantically trying to fix the motorcycle so their rider can get back out there. There was none of that, which leads me to believe by default, there was nothing wrong. Jorge just said, f this, I don't want to be out here. This is not very much fun. We got to go to the truck. That's. That's what I believe deep down happened. And I don't have any way to prove that, nor would I, like, bet on it. It's just what I happen to believe. That's it. That's what I believe. I think frustration set in. He's like, this sucks. I don't want to be 4 seconds a lap slower. I'm getting passed by guys that I should not be getting passed by, and I don't want to be out here anymore. That's what it looked like to me. I don't know what the answer is. I think they have a lot of work to do on the motorcycle. I think they're pretty far behind some of the other bikes on the racetrack, namely the Yamaha and the Honda. And I don't think it's a quick fix. I don't think they have an answer at the moment for it. So good luck. Right. If you. You have really smart people at Kawasaki, like, I know these guys. I know I've known Oscar for a long time. He was Chad's mechanic in Europe. He was Chad's mechanic in the US he's seen it and done it. He knows what factory performance is, Theo. I mean, all those guys. Dan Fahey is the manager. Like, they're. Kipo is the suspension guy. They're smart people over there. They have one look at all the success they had with, with James and Vilpoto Tomac. Like they know what to do. I just think they're dealing with a bike that is not up to par. And I don't, I'm not casting blame, nor would I know where to cast blame upon. Is that in Japan? Is that the engine builder in America? It. I don't know. I have no idea. Nor would I pretend to know. But what I am pretending to know is that when I watch the motorcycle, it's not as fast and it doesn't seem as compliant as some of the other bikes. End of story, full stop. I'll leave it there. That's as about, as simply as I can put it. The bike doesn't look as good. You know, like, if you really want to, really want to make it where a five year old can understand it, this bike is not as good as those bikes. That, that's, that's what I firmly believe. And it's not a personal thing. Like, I understand if someone from Kawasaki is listening to this and they're like super angry about that statement. That's, that's okay. Like, I fully understand. And I would say, I'm sorry. I'm not. This is not a personal thing. I'm not trying to insult you or say you guys don't know what you're doing. I'm not. But in the same breath, I don't think the bike's quite as good. And you know, like, Steve and I got into it about the. We've gotten into it multiple times about this. But he's like, cowie, guys are super smart. You're telling me they don't know what they're doing. And I'm like, I'm not saying that at all. Just like I'm saying it right now again. Remember how much I hated the 2009 Honda 450? I've talked about it endlessly. That bike was death on wheels. I know there are crazy smart people at Honda. They're the same people that built the 2008 Honda. Same people. Sometimes bike just, Bikes just aren't great. Like whatever direction they've gone in, engineering is just not great. That can happen. That happens a lot. That's where I think they are. And Steve, like, he wants to make like, no, there's no way these guys know what they're doing. There's like, these are experts in their field. Understood. Fine. Then you tell me how they built the 2009 after they had the best bike in the 2008 era. Like that 2008. Honda was the best bike that had ever been built up to that time. And they went to a 2009 which was the worst 450 I'd ever ridden. That's a great example of incredibly smart people just getting it wrong. You just got it wrong. I get stuff wrong every day. They just. And I don't know that this Kawasaki is in that same realm. I'm not comparing it to a 2009 Honda 450. I'm not. So please don't think that I am. I'm just trying to convey how just because people are incredibly good at what they do doesn't mean they have to have it all figured out at one particular time. Because I rode Timmy's factory cowies like 07, 08, 09. The 07 and 08 was fantastic. That bike was badass. The 09 was eh, okay. The fuel injection wasn't quite as good. They lost a lot of bottom end power. It was relatively okay. Like for a factory bike. That's kind of not, that's not a great statement. You would think the engine on a factory 450 would be fantastic. It wasn't as good. So I know that they can build an insanely good bike. Like look how good RV's bike was. I heard, I've heard that Tomac's bike. I have this on good authority that Tomac wanted more power and couldn't get it when he left Cali to go to Yamaha. When he, when he tested the Yamaha factory bike, he's like, I'm definitely going to this bike. It is simply far superior engine wise, period, full stop. I don't need to explain any more than that the bike was just a lot faster. And that's only been five years, you know. So I think that still holds true is they're behind the Hondas and the Yamaha's engine. Ecu, like the fuel mapping is such a critical part of this whole thing like fuel injection and ECU mapping is there's so much technology going on there for starts and power delivery and all those things. And I think that know the, all the work that's been done behind the scenes by those companies is really paying off. I, I think there's a lot to be said for that. So anyway, that was a lot on Prado. I didn't mean to go that long on him, but things are not well over there in my opinion. Number 10 is Joey Sachi. And yeah, not like flashy. You know, Joey's just kind of hanging in there. Like I, I just, I think he's been solid. I think he's, you know, like, he had a bad second moto, I think. But overall, I think it's been a pretty good run so far. And Joe Dog deserves, deserves some props. So number 10 for Joey. Number nine, Jason Anderson. He dnf second Moto. You know, he's not going to be on that team next year. And I don't know. I'm sure he's just kind of, he's trying. Like, I've never heard of Anderson, like, not riding on an effort level. Like he is. Always from what I've been told, every time I hear about him riding, everybody's like, that dude rides a lot. Like, a lot a lot. So I don't think it's something where he's just not putting in the effort at all. I've never as much as like, Anderson gives off the, like, party kind of I don't care attitude. I've never heard that from an effort level as far as, like, off. Well, I don't know that he's like a demon off the bike, like bicycling or anything, but I have heard from multiple people that would all know firsthand that he just, he's like one of the highest lap turners. Like, he is putting an effort riding and riding and riding and riding and riding. So I think mentally though, he's probably kind of checked out of this, this summer because he knows he's leaving. I don't know where he's going to end up next year, but I don't think it's like super desperation mode of like, I've got to make it happen right now is kind of what I'm, what I'm trying to say. Number eight is RJ. And RJ's impressed me. You know, I know he's fast, but if you, if you look at how he's gone about it, pretty consistent, solid, not crashing, you know, like, no huge moments, like, kudos to rj. Like, pretty damn solid. I like what I'm seeing from RJ on the 450. And yeah, eighth place, seven is Malcolm. And really the supercross body of work is going to push him ahead of rj because I think RJ has been better in motocross than Malcolm. Like, I believe that. But Malcolm, super cross body of work in the 450 class, won a race battling for podiums that, that carries weight. So I'm going to, I have to keep him ahead of RJ for now. Like, if RJ has a breakout rides, like battling for a podium, he's going to. He's going to leapfrog Malcolm pretty quickly. But I think the way it's gone so far, Malcolm deserves to be ahead of him. Number six is Hunter. And it's tough, like I felt this way about last week too, is it's really difficult on like a. How it feels level for Hunter to be six. Like, I don't think. I don't think he deserves to be six. Unfortunately. Someone has to be six, though. You know what I mean? Like, someone has to be sixth because all these guys ahead of him are crushing it. And Hunter should have been third in the first moto crashes on the last lap, which he probably just gave kicking himself in the junk over and over. When he got back to the Honda truck, that was a really tough unforced error, throwing away a podium and a moto, which podiums and motors are a big deal for teams and sponsors and riders. Like, that's a big deal. He would have beaten Tomac. Another. That's a big deal. He would have gave his brother Jet more points. That's a big deal. So that was a kind of like a sneaky, really important crash in the series and for Hunter also. But I do think he's riding really well. Starts are good. I think he's just doing just fine. High points are really good race for him. I think he'll be battling for the podium at High Point. It's kind of a track where you have to kind of pick your way. You have to be methodical. You have to approach it like a thinking man's track. You can't just override the hell out of it, which all those things work for for Hunter. So I think he'll. Yeah, he'll be solid this coming weekend. Number five is Justin Cooper. And this was a. You know, like I talked about all the reasons why Hunter will be good next weekend. This was that type of track for Jacob. He is great at this track. He even mentioned on the podium at the track, I think just like to the house, though not on tv, that he had been to this race nine years and he'd only been off the podium once and it was with a 3. 3. So this race was the first race he's ever. He had not been on the podium, I guess on a. Well, second time he hadn't been on the podium. But think about that. He had always been on the podium and the one year prior to this year, he didn't get on the podium. He was. He went 3. 3 on the day and he didn't get on the Psych point being he's really good at this racetrack and he, he proved it. He led a bunch of laps. He passed into the lead. Like, really solid day for Justin Cooper. Probably not the end result he wanted, but overall, I think he's doing the thing. Like, he was really good. Sakamoto was really good. So, yeah, kudos to Justin Cupre, third in the second Moto strong all day. You know, he's like, he has been the Fringe Factory 450 guy. Maybe undeserved, but that's, that's where he's lived for a couple of years now. Is like, is he or is he not going to stay on a factory bike? I think he's surpassed that now. Like, I think he's a shoe in to be on a factory bike. That, that's my opinion. We're talking about limited spots. So it's not like he can kind of write his own ticket here. But I think he deserves to be like, yeah, he's a factory guy. Look how good he's doing supercross and motocross. He deserves to be in that conversation of like, yep, you're a factory guy. Like, I don't. You're not. You shouldn't be worried about being on a team. It may not be the, you know, because he's not going to go to Honda, he doesn't get along with the Lawrences, Cowie doesn't have any room. Ktm. I guess if they didn't, if they don't get Tomac, like, that could have been a possibility. Maybe like that, you know, Like, I think they need a guy that's going to win. Like, so maybe they would look at it and say, we just, we have to go bigger. Like, we have to get a bigger name than that. But if there wasn't a name available, if Tomac stayed at Yamaha, maybe Justin Cooper would go there. You know, like, maybe he would go to Husky. But the point is, someone would sign the guy. He's too damn good to not be on a factory bike anymore. Number four, Aaron Plessinger. And, and I am so impressed with ap. Seriously. Like, I, I know he's a great rider. Like, He's a former 250 champ. He's won 450 supercross races. He's 250 supercross champ. Like, he has all the resume to not be like me for, to be blown away at his performance. But I'm still like kind of taken aback at how good he is. And I'm kind of like chastising myself for being surprised because I Think he doesn't deserve. Like, it's not like he came out of nowhere, but he's, like, battling with the top guys. Like, he's giving Jet and Tomac all they want at times, you know, like, it's. It's been a little hit and miss, you know, like, one Moto, he can't kind of do it on the weekend, and the other Moto, he's just amazing, so he needs to clean that up. As far as, like, being that guy every single time, that's. That's fair criticism or fair pushback, you know? Like, I don't. I do think there is that side of this coin. But the upside part of this story, like, that has to be told. Like, it is phenomenal when he's on, like, that first Moto, like, he went up and straight up passed Jet, and you could say, well, you know, he. Jet didn't have that line. And as soon as Jet figured out the line, Jet passed him back. All right, no problem. Like, that's fine. But let's not skip over the first part of that sentence, which was, he passed Jet and had the better line. Like, that's also a part of this story. And I just think he has not really been pointed to is like, yeah, that guy's going to go up and win. He's going to go up and battle Tomac and Jet, because I certainly wouldn't have thought that. And he has surpassed my expectation every step of the way so far this summer. So great job. To ap, like, it's impossible to not like the guy, you know, like, everybody likes ap, but now the writing is on such a level that you're like, man, he's kind of got it all. He's got the personality, but he's got the speed. He's got fitness, you know, and yes, if he could figure out how to do it every single time out, he could be in this, you know, like a real threat. But that's. You're discounting how difficult that is. Like, yeah, everybody would want to do that every single time out if they could. It's just a lot harder than it sounds, you know, like, everybody wants to be at the front every single time. That's why it's. That's why these guys get paid so much. That's why it's so difficult to win championships. But I just want to give AP a lot of credit because it takes a lot of work and dedication to improve his skill set. The way he has to get into this fight with those guys is no joke. And I certainly Recognize it, you know, in the only way I know how, which is just to kind of wax poetic about him. Number three is Cooper Webb, and Webb's gonna probably continue to drop back. You know, he's in that, like, six, seven, eight spot right now in the Motos, which is fine. He is a Supercross champ, so I'm leaving him at three. But, you know, like, if it continues this way and AP keeps killing it and Webb sticks around 6, 7, he's gonna slowly drift back. That's just the normal, normal thing here. And you also have to watch out for this storyline that's gonna. We're gonna talk about. We talked about on the review show, going to talk about it on Insider this week again, but there is a thing developing where Justin Cooper and AP will be fighting for the number one seed going into the playoffs. Like, that is going to happen. Like, it's, it's ramping up. Like, it's, it's a slow burn right now and no one's really talking about it. But if you look at the points and you look at the trajectory and do the math, it's coming and it's. It's like, can you imagine if, like, Justin Cooper goes into Charlotte as the number one seed? Like, that's crazy. Like, no one, no one would have expected that. Not me, not anybody. So just watch for that. Like, webs, I'm sure aware of it. I'm sure he's going to want to push back and try to hold on to that lead. But, like, yeah, wish in one hand and I don't even know what the phrase is, I'm throwing phrases out there. It's just not so easy. Like, I'm sure he's trying, but, like, he wants that. He wants that number one seed. That's half the reason he's sticking it out here. But he may not be good enough to do it. Like, in the end, he may not be good enough to hold off both or one of them. Like, we don't know. We don't know how it's going to go, but it's just a new wrinkle of this that we kind of just uncovered through how good Cooper and AP have been riding. So watch for that dynamic to continue to shift. And it's going to come down to the end. It's going to come down to Buds Creek as far as who is the number one seed going in. And it's worth a lot of money. Like, that's the thing. Like, you could say, well, who cares? Like, either Jet or Tomac or Sexton is going to win. You know, you could say Hunter to Hunter was, you know, a point away from winning the championship or whatever. You could say it's going to be one of those guys. That's fine, fine, don't care. But for like a pier Justin Cooper, the money difference between say they get third or fifth or second or third or fourth or fifth, like those are huge money jumps in the points payout, like gigantic. And if I had it in front of me, I'd tell you what they are. But they are significant amounts of money. Like six, six figure differences amount of money. To have that, you know, like to in the seed helps that a lot, right? You're starting with three or two or you know, how many ever many points ahead, right? Like let's say Justin Cooper and AP and Cooper Webb go into Buds Creek and they're all really close and Justin Cooper gets the nod. He's going to get five points more ahead than he would have if he got third. He was the third seed. Like that's a big thing for this. Total points after three playoff rounds. Like that could be 100 grand. Like you tell me that 100 grand doesn't matter. Of course it matters. Like it matters to anybody. I don't care how rich you are, 100 grand matters to anybody. Even the richest people in the world, they would because they remember what it was like to be broke unless they were trillionaires or not trillionaires. Unless they had a lot of money from birth, they remember what it was like to not have any money. 100 grand is a lot. Especially for a guy like Justin Cooper who hasn't won all the championships and he hasn't like won a gazillion races to earn like all those millions. A hundred grand to a guy like that is a lot. And I'd tell you right now, like 100 grand to AP is a lot. I tried to sign him to where fly racing two years ago. 100 grand is a lot of money. Like I know what that means to him. So just watch for that is the main point. Number two is of course ey Tomac. And man, Eli's killing it. Like I love to see this version of Eli. Like he looks like his best self. And Steve posed the question on our review show about is this ey faster than championship? Ey. And he said he's not. I disagree. When I watch ey then and I watch him now, the speed is better. And I think a lot of that is the motorcycle has allowed him to go faster. If you look at who he was beating and how he was beating them. And like, 18 and 19, I mean, it was. He was really good. But, like, beating Marvin and Osborne and some of these guys, like, that's a really notable accomplishment. It truly is. But I do not believe that it's the same as beating Jet. I just don't. Like. I do not think those two things are the same. And that's my opinion. You can. You can dislike it, you can. You can disagree with it, but you're not talking me off of it. Promise you that. I do not think those two things are the same. And if you gave me eli Tomac in 20, 18, 2019 or 20, whichever. Whichever one you want right now, and he had to line up against Jet, he ain't beating him. I do. I do not believe he's beating him. His starts were too terrible. He. He was. Had holes in his game. There was a lot of weirdo rides. Like, he would. There's no way. There's no way that guy beats Jet in a race. Maybe, like, in his best day, like, he goes full beast mode. Maybe he's there. I don't even think so, though. I don't think it's the same. And it's. The inconsistency was way too. Way too prevalent back then to beat this Jet, who kind of like sucks the air out of the room with. You know, he just doesn't. He doesn't give you anything. Like, Eli's already 20, 25 points down. Think about that. Think about how good Ey has been through six motos and he's already 25 points down. Like, that is tough. That is really, really tough to wrap your head around if you're Yamaha or Tomac, because they are all in on this championship. That's all they care about. That's all they want to do is win this title. And they're looking up going, damn, 25 points already. Like, I'm sure someone has thought that. I know I have, but I'm saying someone on their side has already thought that. It's a really difficult thing. And there will be moments, there will be opportunities here for Eli. Southwick is a fantastic race for him. Like, he could absolutely win. Southwick doesn't mean Jet. It's not going to be great. Like Jets. Jet is a master in the sand. Like, I'm just telling you that on the front end. But Eli has been so strong there. And. And then you think about Washougal, probably Eli's best track. Going to be really tough to beat at Washougal. That's another opportunity to make up some points. But you know, if we get to Washougal and we would have, I think three rounds left after Washougal and you're 30 points down. Let's say it stays very similar to here. Let's say he's 25 down, exactly the same as here. How's he going to make up 25 points in three rounds? Like it's not going to happen. It's just not Jets. Jets too polished for that. So that's the, that's the difficult part of what Eli's up against is he's really, he's either got to get a lot of help. Like he needs a big moment from Jet, like a big crash, a mechanical failure, some sort of season changing incident I think is a big, a big need here or he's just got to start winning everything in sight. Those are the only two ways this, this changes for, for Tomac. Number one, Jet Lawrence. Obviously, you know, I, I talk about this a lot, but I get a lot of, I get a lot of hate on social media and DMs and stuff about me talking about Jet. I don't care. I really don't. It's not going to change the way I talk about him. I'm more wondering why, why people are so mad. Is it because he's Australian? Is it because they're just Tomac fans and, and he, he's beating Tomac, you know, Like I read their comments and I'm like, well you're a moron. One, like nobody should talk to anybody like that. Two, why are you so mad? Why do you hate jets so much? Is more where it sends me. I'm more like doing like a psychiatric evaluation on it. Like trying to understand why they're so angry. Some of it's just fandom, which is fine. You're allowed to dislike riders and like other ones, like that's that what makes the world turn. Like I'm cool with that. But man, there is some, some heated, heated takes on, on this stuff. Like people get wound up about this stuff. That's where I more I'm like kind of like head scratch. Like I'm like a confused dog. Like I look at the, the message and after I get past the fact that this guy called me a bunch of names, my head cocks to the side a little bit and I try to like understand what the hell's going on here or why this guy is so, so worked up. So anyway, that's it for this week. High Point is up next we will be in the shadow of Morgantown, West Virginia. I have not looked at the weather yet. I hope it's nice. But, yeah, typical high point would involve some rain sometime while we're in town. It's usually how it goes. But big round for the series. And, yeah, we're going east, so we'll see if any trends change as the series heads to the east coast. So thank you, everybody. An hour. Wow. Over an hour for this podcast this week. Thank you to the sponsors, thank you to the listeners, thank you to all the people who constantly say nice things to me on social media and at the races on the weekends. It means a lot, honestly. Like, I'm living my dream here. Truly, like, I am living my dream, getting to do this TV thing. And when you say nice things to me about that, like, it goes a long way. I'm sure sometimes people don't mean it. They're just being nice. That's okay, too. It does feel good. So thank you to everybody for being so kind. And for those who write me mean things, that's okay. I'm not mad at you for it. I get it. I'm not. You know, I've been mean to people in my life, too. It's okay. Thanks, everybody. We'll talk to you next week. See you.