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A pulp MX Network production. A cerebral and experienced look into the racing action from the week that was. This is Industry Seating with Jason Thomas, presented by Guts Racing Works Connection, TL Speed Shop, Unmatched supplements, Firepower parts, Grandstone boots and fly racing. Welcome to the Industry Seating podcast. My name is Jason Thomas and wow, what a weekend we had in Las Vegas. I'm sure you've already probably listened to things, watch things, talk to other people, talk to yourself about what we saw. I know I certainly did. But yeah, we're going to get into all of that because there is a lot to unpack and I've got to. I've gotten to work through my thoughts about it, talk a few on a few shows about it. We filmed SMX Insider today and so just gave me more opportunity to refine my thoughts and yeah, I'm excited to share them on this format where I really don't have any time constraints because usually I do. SMX Insider is really short. We have to get in and out. Not so different than on the television broadcast on the other shows. I kind of need to be mindful of Steve's time, right. We're kind of going back and forth, so there's some dialogue and I don't want to hog the whole show. Well, guess what? I don't have to do any of that right here. So I'm going to tell you exactly what I think about all of the things that we saw on Saturday night before. We do want to thank the sponsors of this podcast, Guts racing works connection, TL speed shop and race- rentals.com unmatched supplements, Grantstone boots, Firepower Parts and Fly racing. And I'll have a little bit more information on them later on some promo codes and ways you can save some money with all the great sponsors of this podcast. But let's jump into this damn thing and let's just go straight to the two video class. Why not? This is where the conversation was. This was what everybody wanted to talk about. And my goodness, what a night of racing. And I'm not saying that it was right or sportsmanship or anything of the sort, but hey, if you're in Vegas and listen, if I was there not working, I was just there enjoying my time. I would have been half lit, I would have been enjoying adult beverages and I would have been screaming my head off at the things that I was watching because there's no way that you could say it wasn't entertaining. Maybe you don't like Hayden Deegan, maybe you love Hayden Deegan. Maybe you thought the move was terrible. Maybe you thought it was awesome and that he was doing anything and everything he could to win the championship at all costs. I kind of don't care about any of that. Like, what. What in the individual take is. That's. That's for the viewer to decide. That's what makes racing awesome. That's your individual experience. I'm not going to judge for that. But there's no way in hell that you weren't entertained, that's for damn sure. So, first off, let's congratulate Joe Shimoda. He wins a championship, and if you go all the way Back to Anaheim, 1. This felt like redemption for Joe because he was so good early on. And I really felt like, man, for the first time, he was going to have this breakout, you know, year, and it was going to finally happen for him. It's the first time he ever started fast in a championship, literally ever. And if you've ever talked to Joe, if you're. If you've ever really paid attention to Joe, he's one of the nicest people ever. And I think a lot of that is just culturally, you know, Japanese people, they would die before disrespecting someone. That's just in their DNA. That's how they're raised. That is a deep cultural thing for Japanese people. And Joe exonerates that. Like, he exudes that in every way. And it's evident for anybody who's ever come across Joe Shimoda, including myself. He is so nice and so respectful, and I just don't know how you could be anything but a Joe Shimoda fan. I'm not saying he has to be your favorite writer. Like, maybe you want louder personality, maybe you want to cheer for the bad boy image. That's all. That's fine. But it would be incredibly, I would just say wrong to kind of, like, be against Joe, if that makes sense. Like, like, if you're on the other side of Joe, there's just no reason for that. And you don't have to listen to me, choose whoever you want, right? Choose your fighter. But I'm just telling you, if you don't have a strong opinion, man, Joe, he does it the right way. And I think there are a few guys. I think Levi Kitchen's in that same boat. I think Seth Hammaker's in that same boat. I think Cameron McAdoo is in that same boat. There are certain guys that, no matter what the situation, no matter what's going on, every time I talk to them, every time I see them. They are respectful, they're nice, they treat people well, and that goes a long way with me. If you've ever listened to this show, you will know that goes a long way with me. And that could not be any more true than it is for Joe Shimoda. So congrats to Joe. I don't really cheer or celebrate anything for anyone. My job is to be unbiased, but Joe makes it hard to be unbiased. And I was truly happy for Joe in the midst of being wildly entertained by all the other drama that was going on also. Now let's switch gears to Hayden Deegan. And to start off, I'm a huge fan of Hayden Deegan's riding ability, the way he innovates on the racetrack, his deep inner confidence in his ability. He doesn't really shy away from the moment, like, ever. He always kind of steps up when he needs to. I have a lot of respect for a lot of the things that he does with his racecraft and in the same breath, I have so many problems with the things, the other things that he does. And I know he doesn't care about that. He doesn't care what I think. I don't think he cares what anybody thinks. And that's probably a very valuable asset for him and will be moving forward because he doesn't get distraught by the kind of noise around him. He doesn't let the noise distract him from the ultimate goal, which is winning. Like, he. He's been raised in the spotlight. He's been raised with a lot of detractors and people taking shots at him and a lot of praise also, you know, it just all of the things that celebrity brings, he has been raised in the midst of that. So this is really no different, this dynamic, this drama, all the talking good and bad and the craziness and the YouTube and that's where Hayden has lived his whole life. I think he thrives in that and from that, So I know he doesn't care what I necessarily think. So I'll just tell you, like, he got this one wrong in my opinion. And I don't think it was really how he set out to do it. I believe he went into the first race just trying to win, get the start, execute very similar to how he went about his business at round one and most of the rounds in 2024. I think that was the plan. Just go do the thing and then let Joe kind of screw it up on his own account. Well, Joe didn't do any of that. Hayden didn't get the start. Then he had that craziness with Ryder D. So that really forced his hand to get to the front, and in the end, he couldn't get there. He had to settle for second. He rode. He rode really well like you. I mean, you could see the adrenaline kick in. You could see the intensity going bonkers for him. But in the end, it just was not enough for him to get the win. That's when I think everything started to turn. I think in between motos, basically, he came to the resolution that, well, Joe's not going to blow it, so I'm going to have to get really aggressive and start changing the situation on my own. You saw him on the start. He immediately was looking for Joe. He. Once Joe wasn't in the very front, Hayden immediately changed his kind of trajectory to making it all about interfering with Joe. They took off towards the front. He really couldn't do much about it. Like, he stuffed him on in the second turn, which was fine. No big deal. Like, I know somebody may not love that move, but it wasn't, like, crazy dirty. And you've got to try to at least be aggressive. Like, you can't just right, you know, like, say, well, whatever, Joe, you. You've got it. You know, I don't necessarily think that's the right move either. You know, trying to park him and push him back in the field and make him move forward. I think. I think that's. That's fair game, fair play, you know, is it. Is it perfect sportsmanship? No, but whatever. There's half a million dollars on the line, so I'm not. I'm not going to judge him for that. As they start moving through the field, they both kind of get to the front. And I think Hayden was still. He was looking around and he saw Kitchen in the mix. He saw Seth out front. He's like, this is still doable. If I can get Joe into fourth and I can go win, this can still happen. And it was still. It was still in play at that point. And that's why you didn't see him getting crazy yet. Once Kitchen dropped out, though, Kitchen had a bike problem. And I heard. I saw people saying, like, oh, that was on purpose, and it was intentional. No, no, no. Like, forget all that. Kitchen cost himself tens of thousands, if not a lot more money than that by that bike problem. Mike Kitchen, he may be friends with a lot of people. He's not going to intentionally rob himself of tens of thousands of dollars to help anybody. Like, that's just not going to happen. So whatever happened with Kitchen's bike was unfortunate for him, but that changed the math for everything else. And when Hayden got to the point where he's like, well, Joe's sitting here, Seth's out front, the way it's going now, I'm just going to get second, and that's not. That's not acceptable. I'm not going to take this lying down. And I think the anger from St. Louis started to kind of get fired back up and the adrenaline kicked in and he basically just went batshit crazy. And I apologize for the. For the poor language, but I don't know a better way to say it. And I think he just said, you know, what if I can't win it? If this is the situation, it's not. The math is not going to work, that I'm just going to make sure that nobody around here wins it and Joe's not going to win it. And if I can do anything about it, Seth's not going to win it because I'm not going out like this. And I got robbed in St. Louis by Levi Kitchen, and I'm mad as hell, and I'm going to show everybody just how mad I am. I really think that's what it came down to. And you can parse the words. You can change, you know, marginally there, but in the end, big picture, I think that's what happened. I think he just said, piss on it. I'm going to wreak havoc and cause chaos and see how it all shakes out. Because he wasn't going to let Joe Shimoda go. Like, how many times he hit him four times. In the fourth time, he finally knocked him down. Like, he was simply not going to allow this to go easily. Just wasn't going to. And I don't know, really, you know, like, if it continued, I think, you know, they both ended up on the ground anyway, but I think it would have only gotten worse. Like, Hayden proved, like, he sent a very simple message that I'm not going down. Like, we're. This is not going to end this way. So where I'm go, I'm going with that. In the end, I think it may have kind of gone the best way possible for Joe, and that sounds crazy because Joe ended up on the ground, but for Joe, I think this was maybe the best ending possible because Hayden hurt himself, which took him out of the race, which kind of went Joe off the hook. Like, Joe fell over. Yeah, sure. No big deal. He got right back up and was still in the fight. And it removed Hayden from the conversation. All that chaos, it took him out of a position to ruin Joe's championship. And then Joe, not really knowing where the points were, he mentioned that on the podium. He's like, I didn't really know. I saw five points, but I don't know what that meant. He freaking went and passed the out in the last corner for the overall. So as crazy as that sounds, I think this was kind of best case scenario for Joe when he went down with Hayden because at least it. It created some sort of finality to it and removed the threat, which was Hayden. So in wrapping that up, like, Hayden was way over the line. Not acceptable behavior, in my opinion. That was not racing. That was not good sportsmanship. That was not anything that I would condone or say was okay or say that, like, yeah, man, he's going for a championship. I'm willing to overlook it. Absolutely not. I'm not going to, like, try to indict him here. Like, I'm not going to just, you know, penalize him forever. All I'm saying is in that moment, that particular instance, he simply got it wrong. Like, that's. That's all there is to it. There's really not much more to say. I think he'll look back on it one day when he's my age and regret how he handled it. Not right now. I think he's still angry as hell right now. He probably was like, they screwed me in St. Louis Kitchen, stole my championship, and, you know, like, he scorched earth. Like, he's like, you know, hell hath no fury as Hayden's championship getting taken away from him when he felt it was his. Like, he. Excuse me, like he earned it. So I don't think he cares about anybody saying that it was wrong. I think with time, years from now, he may feel a little bit differently. And we'll see. Maybe he circles back to it in a long time from now and says, you know what? Looking back on that championship and who knows, right? Like, I don't even know if I'll be alive. But 20 years from now, maybe he does a podcast or does a show and says, yeah, I probably wasn't very smart and laughs, right? Like, I don't know. We'll see. I just know how time changes perspective and maturity changes perspective. And the anger that he was feeling at the time won't be present anymore, which will lead to more rational thought than certainly he had on Saturday night. And I would say that he very likely still has midweek after the event itself. Now we've got to wonder what happens with motocross nations. Can he or can't he? Will he or won't he? We don't know. We know he had surgery. He got a plate on the collarbone and we're going to find out if he races or not. I kind of, I'm torn on this. I applaud him, willing to be like, no, hell with that. I'm tough and I'm going to make it happen. Like, part of me is like that, that shows some grit. Like he's bowed out of this race before, but he's willing to race hurt. There's another part of me that says, you know what? No, thank you. You're not healthy. What happens if you crash on Saturday and re injure yourself? Now the USA is completely out of this thing. You're too vulnerable right now to do this. And I'm not saying you can't perform. I'm not saying that. I'm mad about Vegas and I don't want. I like, that's not it. It's. Racing with a collarbone that's been surgically healed 12 days before is not a good setup for this race. One first turn crash, one big swap, him jumping like, trying to triple down before the finish line, anything like that, and it's over. You know, this whole effort for Team USA is completely wrecked and we have Justin Cooper waiting in the wings. And J Coop is incredibly good on a 250 and he's going to rip. After racing that 450 all summer and having to find pace and be able to manipulate a 450 the way he can. He's such a great starter and he has proven he is a known quantity at this Motocross the Nations event. So I have no problem with substituting Justin Cooper in. If Hayden Deegan is not 100%. And I can't imagine a world where he is 100%. That's just it. I cannot picture a world where he is 100% 12 days after getting his collarbone plated. And I'm not a doctor, I'm not going to know how Hayden feels. I don't know their perspective. I'm just armchair quarterbacking this thing and it doesn't seem like the best setup in the world. So stay tuned. We'll. We'll see how that all plays out. I just don't love it from the outside. And yeah, we'll just kind of see how that all. How that all plays out. Because in the end, Motocross the Nations is about a lot more than simply one rider toughing it out or anything. One particular result. It's a team effort. Like, it's a big deal for a lot of people. Like, I take this race very seriously. I take a lot of pride. A lot of people do, too. And we have to be pragmatic about this and be smart and make the right decision. So I'm not personally, which I have no bearing on it. I'm not ruling Hayden out, but I think we need to take a long, hard look at it. And I know that they are. I know they are behind the scenes trying to figure out what the best course of action here is possible. I would assume Justin Cooper is preparing as if he's going to do it until he. They tell him he's not. That's what I would be doing if I was him. I would, you know, put the beer down, which I don't. Probably doesn't drink, but whatever. Postpone their relaxation for a minute, lock in for a second, and for sure they will decide by this coming weekend, like, guaranteed by this coming weekend, they will have to make a decision. I would. I would guess that they'll give Hayden a couple days to heal, see how his progress is coming, see how his mobility is, see how the pain is, maybe put him through the paces this weekend. And then you got. You got to have your team settled, you know, come Monday morning. Like, you got to know what you're doing, the team's got to know travel, all those types of things. So I would look for news no later than this coming Monday morning, and I think that's at the latest. But anyway, this is not a motocross the nations podcast. I just wanted to kind of give my perspective on that. Seth Hanmaker. Seth is kind of in the same boat as Joe Shimota for me, where it's super easy to cheer for Seth. Like, I just like the guy, and when he does well, that makes me happy. So I'm a Seth fan, even though I'm really not supposed to be a fan at all. I just. I think Seth's. He's a nice guy. He does things the right way. He handles himself in a mature way. You don't see him disrespecting people. You don't see him lashing out or doing crazy stuff. You don't see him riding like a jerk towards other people. And I just have a lot of respect for Seth Haymaker, so I was happy for him to. To get second in series. It's 250k. You figure he probably made another 30 or 40amongst the three races. I'm not looking at the payout, but I don't know. All in. 300 grand for his troubles. Good for him. That makes me happy that he made a lot of money. I take joy in seeing his success. Levi Kitchen, I mean, overall, man, just wasn't his year. 2025 was simply not his year. And I know he won a race or two, I know he got podiums, but the expectation was multiple wins and championship contention, and there he just wasn't. He wasn't in that. That was not the story of Levi kitchen in 2025. So I don't take any joy in saying this wasn't his year. As I mentioned off the top of the show, I'm a big Levi fan, but it's very hard, if not impossible, to conclude and say that this was a great year for Levi Kitchen. It simply was not. And hopefully next year is better. I think it will be. But he's got to stay healthy. He's got to find a way to get starts. That was a big key for him in 2024. Think about that. 2024 West Coast Championship. His starts were phenomenal. And that was a missing ingredient and I would say an important, incredibly important missing ingredient in 2025. So he's got to find a way to rectify that. Tom Vial is the last note on the 250s. And I wrote in my notes, happy trails, Tom, because this is it. He will be heading back to Europe. He will race some. I think he's racing some WSX stuff. I'm not real sure. I know he's racing. Was it Australia, but he'll race Bersi for sure. But he'll be on Factory Honda. Factory Honda mxgp, which is owned by Giacomo Garibaldi. And that's just the way MXGP teams are run. They're independently owned most of the time, but it's factory Honda, they have access to all the works. Honda parts. They actually have stuff that American guys don't like. Hunter Lawrence Hunter and Jet Lawrence don't have. Not because Honda won't give it to them. They're not allowed to run it by AMA rules. So their bikes are incredibly exotic. And he'll be on great equipment. And he got paid a lot of money. You know, I think he looked at the situation and if you want to go back to the podcast I did prior to Red Bud, I took a really deep dive into Tom Viall's situation and explained why I think he should go back to Europe. And in the end, he must have agreed with me because that's the deal he took multi year deal with with factory Honda. I hear it's in the €750,000 per year range which is really good money. It's a lot more than he would make here salary and it's also a stable future for him which is to me the biggest variable. That was the key because I don't think there's anything guaranteed for him past 2026 here. From what I understand KTM was going to give him a 450 spot with his 250 contract which he makes. He would make decent money. I would say all in is probably like a $500,000 a year salary between KTM, you know, Alpinestars, whatever goggles. See where 100% all of his deals combined it's probably 500k just my guess. So he's getting a significant raise and the future security over there. That's the big thing to me not Forget about the 250k extra year. That's nice don't get me wrong but the recurring number at 750 is really to me the variable that moves the needle in this whole situation. So good decision Tom. I know it probably wasn't easy to leave America. I think he likes it here. I think this was his dream. But sometimes you have to make the smart decision. You have to look at the writing on the wall and say this is what makes the most sense for me and my future and act accordingly. And I think he did exactly that. So before we get into the power rankings, the last one of the season, let's thank the sponsors. Guts racing go to gutsracing.com utsracing on Instagram Seat covers and graphics for power sports E bikes Surrons complete seats for betas Kawasaki's they are the one stop shop for graphics and seats and seat covers. So check those guys out. Andy Gregg is a staple of the industry. You won't find anybody that ever talks bad about that guy. And a great company to boot. Works connection honestly same theme. Eric Phipps has been around forever in the sport. Early 90s is kind of my first interaction when he, he always sponsors Steve Lamson, Steve Lampson went to factory Honda they were like man this these guys products are amazing and the rest is history. 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Protein, creatine, pre workout, post workout, BCAAs, they have it all. So check out unmatched supps s u p s short for supplements. Supplement is JT10 for anything you buy there. And I'm telling you I'm putting my name behind these products. They are whites out. Great. I don't let any sponsor on this podcast that I'm not willing to stand behind. My name's. This is literally my podcast. Like I'm not putting anything on here that I wouldn't use myself or stand behind myself. Why would I? I take that stuff super seriously. And I want to be able to stand behind any products that I promote. And unmatched supplements is more than I could say on that front. Grandstone Boots. I have been with them since the very beginning and their list of products is incredible. I am blown away by the stuff that they come out with and you can check it out@grantstoneshoes.com and at Grandstone. On Instagram, I have boots in my closet. They're like woe top boots. The first ones they ever made. I have them in my closet. I was looking at them yesterday. I'm not making this up. I was looking at them yesterday and I just happened to see them and I grabbed them and then I looked from there to like now. And I'm talking. This is like 2016. Well, you can go on my Instagram, there's a picture of them. The first pair I ever got. I was in Tampa. First time I ever wore them. 2016, I was there with former girlfriend going to dinner. Look at that product and what they have available now. You want to talk about progression and product. Good grief. They have some badass stuff. Everything from like long wings to high top boots to sneakers to women's boots to loafers. They have it all. It's just an incredible company and I'm so proud of the work they've done and the products that they put out. FirepowerParts.com is a WPS owned company. I am very involved in the marketing aspects of that company. And you will see big things from Firepower moving forward. We have so many products in the hopper right now and development process that are about to come out. Firepower is about to be a household name. I'm just going to tell you that on the front end, if you don't already know it, I promise you you will very soon. Fly racing. You should already know. Flyracing.com flyracing global. What else is there to say? I have pretty much dedicated my life to it for the last 12 years or so and I don't see that changing anytime soon. So let's get into this damn thing. I know you're not here for sponsors. I appreciate you suffering through them, but it is super important to me to help promote them. And also you can save some money and learn about some great products and great companies. So power rankings, here we go. At number 10 is Justin Barcia. And I don't really have a lot to share with Justin Barcia. It's not like I like have all these bullet points and this is Wyzen and this, you know, like it's really just a body of work with Barcia. Like, he has been a staple in the 450 class for a decade. Full stop. That's enough. He's been in the top 10 many years, better than that many years, battling for wins and podiums for over a decade. And he deserves to be in here. When you look at the list of people available now, that race was his final race with the Rockstar Gas Gas team. Formally, it was. You know, formally, he was a Red Bull guy forever, but it was a Rockstar Gas Gas team this year. And I could tell he was a bit emotional. Like, he was trying to square his feelings about that coming to an end, that coming to a conclusion. A team he had been a part of for a very long time, you know, and he's super tight with the people there. And it had been a rough road lately. Like, they had had a lot of bike problems. He had lost a lot of confidence in the motorcycle, and he wasn't even practicing in Florida anymore because he didn't trust the bike. He wanted to be on site in California with team personnel to ride it. I don't know what was going on. You remember the brake issues he had at multiple rounds. So I don't know exactly what the problem was, but I could tell he had mixed emotions. Like, I think he's ready for a change. But he also, you know that you become family when you're on a team and with working with people for that long. And I think he was struggling a little bit with that aspect of it as well. So good job, Justin Barcia. Listen, he's cleaned up his racing a lot. Does he do it perfectly now? No, there's still some moments where I'm like, that's a little, little much. But go back seven or eight years ago where the guy was a freaking menace. Like, he was just so overboard, so overly aggressive, and in a word, dirty way. Too much. You don't see a lot of that now. So I applaud concerted efforts to change, concerted efforts to improve yourself. And I see that in Justin Barcia. So good job, Justin. Like, think about when he cleaned out Malcolm, you know, like, how many times he hurt people over the years, like, taking them out. He doesn't do that stuff anymore. And I think that should be. It should be mentioned, you know, when you really do things a different way and you can see it in yourself. And I'm trying to think of the right word, basically, you just pivot and you say, all right, I didn't get that Right. I'm going to do it differently from here on out. And maybe I thought this was okay in the past, but I don't anymore. And therefore I'm going to do it differently. I think that deserves to be recognized and I'm doing so. I'm doing it right here. Good job. Justin Barcia. Malcolm. He's number nine and I know he's not racing right now, but this is kind of an end of season one. He won a race this year, first ever, and I think that deserves a nod. He was third in points between. Between Monster Energy Supercross and Pro Motocross. That deserves a nod. So I'm going to leave him at 9. I don't really have a lot to share other than that. I just think coming in third and winning his first ever race, he deserves some recognition there. Kenny is eight, and it feels really weird for Kenny to be eight. You know, he was fourth in the SMX World Championship playoffs. That's pretty cool. But I don't know, when I look over the course of the whole season, it's hard for me to move him up. And I'm going to tell you why with the other guys. But I think just missing motocross for the most part and you know, he raced unadilla, which didn't go very well at all. I just think he probably deserves to be 8 and if you wanted to move him to 7, that's fine. Like, 7 and 8 are kind of interchangeable for me. Like, I don't really have any argument between flipping seven and eight. Number seven is rj. And I mean, RJ had a breakout summer. Like, he was fantastic this summer. Podiums got better the entire time. Was battling with legendary guys like Roczen and Tomac and these guys all summer long. Like, he deserves a ton of credit for the improvement he made. Like, he really, really stepped up and got into the mix of guys that I didn't think he could race with. Like, I didn't think he was ready to make a move like that and race against the guys that he was. And he did it. He absolutely did it. And now I think he's going to get his chance at the Motocross of Nations to prove himself. I think he's going to get the nod. I think he's going to replace Chase Sexton because Sexton's hurt. And I think he's going to show up because he wants in this race. Like, he loves the motocross of nations. I think he views it the same way I do. It is about representing your country. It is the biggest honor that you can have as a racer is to be chosen for the motocross nations. That's what I believe. I firmly believe that. And I think RJ feels just as seriously about that as I do. And I think he's going to absolutely bring it when we go to Ironman. Win or lose, I kind of don't care at this point. Like when, when we have these injuries, it kind of all that goes out the window. Now it's about who wants to go and who wants to put their best foot forward. And I think RJ is going to do that. Number six is Jacob. And rough playoffs, like the first round really killed him, you know, like he lost too many points there. He was okay after that, not terrible. He showed some flash in Vegas. Like he showed a lot more than he had previously. But if you look at his body of work over the year, it was, it was pretty good. You know, he came in with a red plate, the most points. He did all the races and I think he deserves to like a tip of the cap for that. And maybe he's going to race the 250 at the motocross the nations. We shall see. But I don't think necessarily that the tracks for the playoff rounds really favored his skill set so much. He was fine. And you could say like, what do you mean? They didn't have loops and didn't have that? Yeah, I don't know, I just didn't, I didn't, you know, Vegas was pretty good for him. But I don't know, I just didn't see the flash of Jacob that I've seen other times. And I can't, I really can't put my finger on it the way I can with Cooper Webb. I just didn't think it really worked for him. And maybe, maybe it's not even that. Maybe it's not the skill set thing. Maybe it's just that the playoffs had worn him down some, you know, or the season, the full season had worn him down some and he found it hard to bring that same intensity. That that would be an acceptable answer I think as well. I just think I expected more in the end. I expected more from Justin Cooper and we simply didn't get it. But he made a lot of money. It's fine. He made I think 120 grand for points. Probably made another 10 or 15 or whatever for individual results. Not a bad three week run and he had a, he had a successful season like that. It's all good. Justin, or excuse me, Cooper Webb is Number five. And listen, he didn't come in prepared. He was coming off an injury. And if you looked at his demeanor and you looked at the way he was carrying himself, you could tell that he wasn't prepared. When have you ever seen Cooper Webb laughing and jovial and kind of light hearted at the races other than this pro motocross championship, like it was the same coupe? Because he knows this isn't his time to shine. He's not ready. He's just trying to make some money. He's just, I don't want to say going through the motions because he's definitely trying to, but it's not locked in Monster Energy Supercross champion Cooper Webb. That's really the point. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's actually very interesting to see the different shades of the same person when they're kind of looking at it, knowing what's possible and where, what the expectations are and what isn't. And you're going to see coupe go back into championship mode coming October, November, December. And you're going to see him get really serious again in January. That's my prediction. Right. And I don't see why he would be any different. I think he like the pressure is somewhat off. Like winning that third championship is a huge deal. Like it is a very, very big accomplishment. It puts him in rare air compared to everyone else. Like long term he passed. He's ahead of like the Chad Reeds and championships, ey Tomax in championships. Like winning three titles is a huge deal and he knows that. He knows that they can't ever take that away from him now. And I think he rests a little easier because of that. The question is, is he going to go back into the trenches and be that guy again going into 2026? I think so. I have no reason to think he won't. He is the ultimate competitor and I think he'll get back there and take it just as seriously as he did this season. But you never know, like age and you know, like what do they always say? Like there's two ways to look at it. Like, you know, when the kind of the wolf is at the top of the mountain, it's hard for them to stay as hungry as they were when they were on the climb to the top. You just never know. Like some people are just so damn driven that they're like, hell no, I want more. I want more. And we're going to find out. We're going to learn a lot about Cooper Webb and the way that he goes about his 20, 26 campaign based on that alone. Number four is Chase Sexton. And this poor guy, man, he. He just can't get out of that third playoff round. He can't do it. He's gotten hurt three years in a row at the final. That sucks. And two of the three years he was changing teams and that was. That's his last race on that oem. Like that is. That's brutal. Like that is. That is a really rough outcome for Chase, a really rough way to exit a championship, exit a team. And things are, things are not well between he and KTM right now. They're not. He doesn't jive with really anybody over there. He's really not communicating with anybody over there. And I don't, I don't think we'll see him at Motocross Nations. I think that's the last time we'll ever see him on a ktm. Personally. That's my prediction is sometime later this week you'll see an announcement that he has bowed out of the championship and that's it. He won't be on a KTM from here. And I could be wrong for sure. I could be wrong because I know or I was told and heard that he was taking the motocross of nations very seriously and that he wanted to show up and show out and go out on the right foot at that race. I think that's out the window now. This injury, another huge crash on the ktm, concussion, banged up shoulder, all of that leads me to believe that he's out. Like, I just don't think, I think he's going to take that as his cue. And just the writing on the wall, they're like, hey man, it's over. And go heal up and go start testing the Kawasaki in October. I just think that's where we're going to end up. So we shall see if I'm right or wrong. I just think that's where we're headed. Number three is Eli Tomac. And he did finish strong. Like he's exiting. He's going to go to Red Bull KTM after the Motocross the Nations. You know, is this Eli, the 2020 Eli, where I think he's the best rider on the planet. No, but it's a damn good Eli at 32 years old, going to be 33. And this is just what age does. It's really hard to be the best guy in the world for an extremely extended period of time. That's why you see the best guys, the Dungies, the Vilpotos, the Carmichaels, the McGraths. I guess McGrath was a little later. But you see them exit early because they simply don't want to stick around for when Father Time catches up. They don't want to deal with the pressure of losing when the only acceptable outcome is winning. And I don't know if I can put it any more simply than that. They don't want to face that they made all the money. These guys made 20, 30, $40 million or more in their career. And that's enough. That is enough. They did it. They're going out on top. They made enough money to last a lifetime. And they don't have to face the downside of not winning anymore and the constantly constant disappointment of not living up to fan expectation. And teams are paying you to win a championship and then you don't. I don't think they want to deal with any of that. They don't want to deal with injuries, they don't want to deal with the constant threat of hurting themselves when they go racing and practicing. And to see Eli Tomac at his age still performing is super commendable. Like, I have nothing but applause to give him for that aspect. And what's happening to Tomac now, if Jet sticks around, will happen to Jet2. This is just the inevitability of the sport. Jet, I don't think he's going to stick around till 32 or 33 that we'll start there. But if he did, at some point, this same dynamic would happen to Jet. Whether it was Hayden Deegan, whether it's some kid we've never heard of, it would happen to Jet eventually because that's what time does to everyone, period. It's not Tomek's fault. This is just Father Time number two, Hunter Lawrence. And I don't know if I've ever been more wrong about a rider's trajectory in my life as I am and have been about Hunter Lawrence. Like, I just didn't know. Like, I thought he'd be okay, but not this. Not arguably the second best rider on the planet. I just didn't see that coming. I didn't expect it. I would have. I don't know if I'd have laughed at you, but I would have just said I disagree. If you said he was ever going to become what he is right now and congratulations to him because he's earned every step of this. He has earned this the hard way, through injury, through the agony of not knowing if you're going to make it through disappointment and physical therapy. And going the long route through Europe, he's earned all of this. Everything that's coming to him, he's earned. And I have nothing but good things to say about Hunter Lawrence on and off the track. I'm so happy that I was wrong. And I don't say that very often, but congratulations, Hunter. I was wrong, you were right, and your unwillingness to give up has won out in the end. And you're. You're a wealthy person, and you're only going to get wealthier from here. And all of the success, you've earned it every step of the way. And I. I just give you my. My gratitude. That's it. Congratulations, man. You. You've done the thing, and he's not even nowhere. He's nowhere near done. Like, I'm kind of, like, doing a swan song for him, and it's way early for that. But even if he walked away right now, he did it. He. He. He has done it. So congratulations, Hunter Lawrence, number one. You already know, like, it's pretty obvious who number one is, and it's Jet Lawrence. And you know Jet Lawrence, he steps up when he has to. When the lights are the brightest, when the pressure's the highest, Jet Lawrence does it. He makes it happen, plain and simple. Did he win the second Moto? No, but I think he was battling a lot of inner demons. Like, I think he was really struggling with breaking Hunter's heart with the championship. I think he was struggling with a really sketchy track and knowing that he had to go to a place that is dangerous to go to because he had to close that gap down in a short amount of time. And he did it with ease. And I say it's easy watching. I'm sure it wasn't easy to do, but. Did he look sketchy to you? Didn't look sketchy to me. It's just who he is. It's just what he does. Like, the more locked in and the more engaged and the more he has to push, and the bigger the ask, the more pressure on his back, the better he is. And that is a very uncommon thing in this world. So kudos to Jet Lawrence. You could see how hard on this, on him this was emotionally. I mean, the guy was crying like, he knows the cameras are on him. He knows everybody's paying attention. You think he wants to cry in front of people? Of course he doesn't. He doesn't want to cry in front of, you know, national television. He doesn't want to cry in front of his girlfriend and all his team that's how he felt, though. Like the emotion was too much for him. He does not want to hurt his brother. His brother's his freaking hero. If you haven't noticed, he's looked up to his brother since day one. When they moved around the world, when they moved to Europe, it was Hunter who was leading the charge. The guy that was putting food on the plate for the family was Hunter Lawrence. Every step of the way, Hunter has been Jet's hero, period, full stop. Like, there's. There's no other need to put a word behind that. This is Jet's hero, his big brother, and he has to win going through him. He has to crush Hunter's dream of winning this championship to accomplish what he knows he has to do. He knows he has to. He's paid to do it. He. He's expected to do it. He would be letting himself down, the team down, his sponsors down, if he didn't go do what he's capable of. And I think it just killed him inside to have to go do it. And I think that's as simple as it is. And I can't imagine the inner agony that he was going through knowing, like, I really believe this deep down in my heart. I believe with about five minutes and a lap to go, he finally kind of squared it and said, I just have to do this. And you saw him kind of make that conscious decision, and he lowered his lap times down to the 1-30s. And he just said, I know what this is going to do to him, but I don't have a choice. This is what my fate is. And if I don't do this, I am doing myself and my talent a disservice by laying up here. I can't. I can't gift championships to people. I can't do that. And he went out and did it. He went out and he closed Tomac down and passed him and pulled away in, like, two laps, man. Two freaking laps against DY Tomac. That's what he did, and that's what he's capable of. The kid is phenomenal. I think he showed people what's in his heart and who he is as a person after the race. And if you. If you don't like Jet and you're a Deegan fan and you. You're just like, I don't like that guy. I want. Like, I don't know, man. I don't know how you could watch that and not. Not understand who Jett is as a person and who they are as a family. Like, I would just tell you to take a. Take a second look. I'm not saying he has to be your favorite rider, but you might want to reassess your feelings after you saw how their family operates and what they're willing to do for each other, what the lengths they're willing to go as a family, I think says a lot about who they are as human beings. So that's it for this week. That was, it was a heavy championship for Jet and for Hunter and what should be celebrated. I just don't think they could. I don't think they could celebrate it the way that it deserves to be. And that's a tough thing that I don't. I don't know that it's going to change anytime soon. It just. It doesn't feel like we're going to get away from that anytime soon. So, anyway, sorry to weave this podcast on such a heavy, a heavy note, but it shouldn't be heavy. It's a great thing. Hunter's and in the same breath, I'm going to say Hunter shouldn't be distraught, he shouldn't be sad. He made like 500 and I don't even know he made 100 grand for winning one round. He probably made 650 grand in the playoffs. I don't feel sorry for him. I just know how upset he was. That's it. So great job to everybody this season. Thank you all for listening. Thanks for being a part of this thing. And yeah, we'll talk to you soon. I'll, of course, do one of these after the Motocross nations, but I do appreciate everybody listening to this and I really enjoy doing it and we will keep it going. See you.