Podcast Summary: Inevitable (An MCJ Podcast)

Episode: Building the EV Charging Network: Lessons from Former EVgo CEO Cathy Zoi

Host: Cody Simms
Guest: Kathy Zoi (Former CEO of EVgo)
Date: March 6, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features Kathy Zoi, a prominent figure in clean energy and former CEO of EVgo, one of the largest U.S. EV charging networks. Host Cody Simms guides a deep dive into Zoi’s remarkable career across government, nonprofit, investing, entrepreneurship, and, most notably, her work growing and professionalizing the EV charging ecosystem. The discussion covers her early work launching the Energy Star program, lessons in policy and technology, building clean energy businesses (including EVgo and SunEdison’s frontier work), the evolution and economics of public EV charging, and reflections on industry-wide trends in electrification, resilience, and investment.

Kathy Zoi’s Career Path: Key Experiences and Lessons

Early Government Work & Energy Star

• EPA & Clinton White House:
  • Zoi helped create Energy Star, developing voluntary market incentives for energy-efficient products.
  • Notably, she catalyzed IBM and Apple to embed power management in desktop computers, launching the Energy Star logo and approach ([03:01]-[07:02]).
  • Quote:
    • “We came up with this idea ... I can give you an environmental good guy sticker if you do this.” – Kathy Zoi ([04:41])
    • “One of our philosophies of Energy Star... we were from the government, but we weren’t going to tell the product designers how to design the products. We just gave them the endpoint.” – Kathy Zoi ([07:49])

International Perspective: Australia

• Australian EPA & Innovation
  • Spent 12 years in Australia, leading innovative clean energy initiatives and pilots ([09:09]-[11:51]).
  • Developed the world’s first national green power program.
  • Emphasized Australia as a “proving ground for cool ideas” and a climate tech incubator, but noted founders still gravitate to the larger U.S. market ([11:04], [11:51]).

Mass Market Mobilization: Al Gore & Communications

• Alliance for Climate Protection
  • Led Gore’s organization after “An Inconvenient Truth,” focusing on large-scale climate communication and advocacy ([11:59]-[13:04]).
  • Quote:
    • “Al is always three steps ahead... in order to get the mass market mobilized around climate solutions, we need to have a mass education communication campaign.” – Kathy Zoi ([11:59])

Federal Energy Policy: Obama Era DOE

• Department of Energy Leadership
  • Assistant Secretary for Energy Efficiency & Renewable Energy, later acting Under Secretary for all civil energy programs ([14:42]).
  • Managed $30B in investments (ARRA), developing targeted government role in tech development and commercialization ([14:39]-[16:51]).
  • Lesson: Matching public policy tools to technology maturity and appropriate stages ([15:35]).

The Transition to Private Sector and Investing

Growth Equity and the State of Climate Tech

• Silver Lake & Today's Investment Climate
  • Early days of growth equity (2011) were “too early,” but now technology maturity and economics (solar, wind, storage) have attracted major PE firms ([17:20]-[18:06]).
• Role as Advisor and Board Member
  • Currently sits on boards and advisory committees for major utilities and investment firms (Con Edison, EQT, Apax).
  • Enjoys the intellectual challenge of portfolio-wide strategy and “scratching curiosity itches” ([18:06]).

Business Models and Capital Stack in Clean Energy

• Risk & Return in Asset Ownership
  • Early ownership (e.g., EVgo) required risk tolerance; more recent capital is more risk-averse, especially as utilization and economics improve ([20:20]).
  • Different stages and business models require different capital appetites (from high-risk venture to stable assets for yield investors) ([21:41]-[23:15]).
  • Lessons learned from structures like HoldCo/OpCo and the importance of aligning financial structures to risk ([22:31]).

SunEdison, Frontier Power, and Odyssey

Off-grid Solar in Emerging Markets

• Incubating Off-grid Solar (SunEdison Frontier Power)
  • Launched company within SunEdison to pursue mini-grids in emerging markets (India, Africa) ([23:36]-[25:23]).
  • After SunEdison’s bankruptcy, used the learnings to help found Odyssey Energy Solutions (now led by Emily McAteer) ([25:23]-[26:25]).
• Market Opportunity & Social Impact
  • Highlights the need to leapfrog traditional grids with mini-grids and the ongoing challenges of financing in immature credit markets ([26:46]-[27:36]).
  • Quote:
    • “There’s still a billion people who don’t have access to electricity... Odyssey was born to help enable the delivery of power to people everywhere.” – Kathy Zoi ([25:23])

Building the U.S. EV Charging Network: Lessons from EVgo

Strategic Growth and Financial Discipline

• Growth Story:
  • Arrived at EVgo when it was ~50 people and refocused the company from regulatory compliance to disciplined network expansion ([28:02]-[28:22]).
  • Emphasized building “just ahead of demand” using sophisticated siting algorithms ([28:22]-[29:56]).
  • Quote:
    • “I think what I contributed was financial discipline and deployment of capital.” – Kathy Zoi ([29:56])

Fast Charging Economics & User Segments

• Siting:
  • Prioritized locations with high-density multi-unit dwellings and ride-share driver populations ([30:16]).
  • Highways only became attractive recently as demand increased or public grants closed the cost gap ([30:16]-[31:36]).
• Convenience Charging:
  • Surprised to see increasing “convenience charging” even among drivers with at-home charging ([31:36]).
• Future Outlook:
  • Predicts oil & gas (e.g., Shell), truck stops, and real estate partners will dominate future public charging, with specialists like EVgo handling operational complexity ([32:05]-[33:49]).

Business Models and Partnerships

• Ownership Variations:
  • EVgo prefers to own and maintain its chargers; others, like ChargePoint, sell equipment and maintain via service agreements ([35:12]-[35:55]).
• Customer Experience:
  • Collaboration with retail partners: coupon and loyalty integrations, e.g., with Kroger ([34:39]).
• Pricing Innovations:
  • Both EVgo and Tesla employ dynamic pricing (peak/off-peak, congestion) in response to utility rate structures and driver price sensitivity ([36:13]-[37:23]).
• Public Funds & Market Discipline:
  • Some early failures from companies misjudging total lifecycle costs despite robust public incentives ([37:23]-[38:09]).

Going Public and Lessons on SPACs

• SPAC Experience:
  • “Immaterial” whether a company goes public via SPAC or not; focus must be on underlying business economics and sector health ([38:37]).
  • Quote:
    • “The question is, is there an investment thesis that over the next time horizon... this company is going to deliver a return that I want?” – Kathy Zoi ([39:18])

The Modern Utility Perspective

Board Experience: Con Edison

• Reliability & Resilience:
  • Highlights Con Ed’s urban and mostly underground network as boosting reliability, especially post–Superstorm Sandy ([39:56]-[40:53]).
• Regulatory Partnership:
  • Importance of utility-regulator collaboration for resilience, economic, and environmental outcomes ([40:53]).

Watching Market Innovation

• Learning from Other Markets:
  • Con Ed and other utilities actively monitor deregulated markets like ERCOT for insights, but must adapt to their own structural constraints ([41:28]-[43:18]).

Looking Forward: Electrification, Home Energy, and the Long Arc

• Excitement for the Next 5–10 Years:
  • Most passionate about “beneficial electrification”—making full-home electric retrofits easy, accessible, and cost-efficient ([43:36]-[44:56]).
  • Sees big role for grid modernization and new technologies (e.g., SPAN’s panel and software) to enable two-way flows and decentralized resilience ([44:52]).
  • Quote:
    • “I really want to be part of making it easier for that transition to happen.” – Kathy Zoi ([44:52])

Reflections & Advice

• On Patience and Progress:
  • The “arc of history” is long in cleantech; perseverance and patience are essential even amid starts and stops ([45:35]-[46:07]).
  • Memorable Quote:
    • “It may be a long arc, but it’s going to bend our way.” – Kathy Zoi ([45:18])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On working with government lawyers for Energy Star:
  “My boss said, ‘Yes we can. Go ask another lawyer.’ ... So I literally went back and asked another lawyer, who said, ‘No, we can do this.’” – Kathy Zoi ([06:38])

• On Australia as clean energy incubator:
  “It could be a really, really good proving ground for cool ideas. So we stayed there for 12 years...” – Kathy Zoi ([10:06])

• On the investor view:
  “What has surprised me is how intellectually interesting it is to be on the advisory boards of the investment platforms themselves.” – Kathy Zoi ([18:06])

• On EV charging network economics:
  “Why aren’t there more fast charging stations everywhere? ... The answer is because they’re very, very expensive.” – Kathy Zoi ([28:22])

• On keeping up motivation in climate work:
  “I would remind myself to try to be patient. Although, I don’t know, I think my impatience has helped me get out of bed every morning.” – Kathy Zoi ([45:43])

Important Timestamps

• [03:01] – Launching Energy Star: Origins and Lessons
• [09:09] – Decade-plus in Australia: Policy Incubation
• [11:59] – Al Gore and Mass Market Climate Communications
• [14:42] – DOE Role and Approach to Policy/Tech Matching
• [17:20] – Experiences in Private Equity and Growth Investing
• [23:36] – SunEdison, Mini-grids, and Odyssey
• [28:02] – Building and Scaling EVgo
• [32:05] – The Future of Public EV Charging & Industry Roles
• [35:12] – Business Models: Ownership and Partnerships in Charging
• [39:56] – Board Work at Con Edison: Reliability and Resilience
• [43:36] – Excitement for Home Electrification & Next Gen Solutions
• [45:35] – Closing Wisdom: Patience, Persistence, and Optimism

Summary

This episode follows Kathy Zoi’s unique vantage point through four decades of climate solution-building, spanning government, international innovation, mass market education, investment, and company-building. Zoi’s main themes are (a) the critical importance of market incentives and policy design in shaping technology adoption; (b) the sophistication and risk discipline required to build and operate public fast charging infrastructure; (c) the increasing alignment between economic returns and sustainability in energy investing; and (d) excitement for the next phase of beneficial electrification and grid modernization. Her stories and advice offer both historical perspective and actionable insight for policymakers, entrepreneurs, and investors shaping the future of clean energy.